Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Meatwad on June 04, 2020, 12:29:57 PM
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Due to reasons I cant say that will give me a temp vacation from the boards, I am looking toward investing in an M1911 for home defense. I have been looking at the S&W types, but cant really decide on between the classic .45 or the 9mm. I dont really care how pretty one is or any aftermarket things, just something simple and will do the job. Mainly looking for accuracy and gets the job done without a hassle
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How much do you wish to spend?
How much experience do you have?
Why the 1911?
HiTech
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Why the 1911?
`Cause it's the best. :D
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/45/f1/31/45f131917289295b345f1688ba1614ee.jpg)
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What are the laws like for pistols in IL? I'd imagine it would be easier/more economical to pick up a 18.5" barrel 12/20ga shotgun or something...
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As far as for home defense, you have many options as you are not lugging it around all day. No reason to limit size or weight because of that. It will be more according to what you are most comfortable with. You want something you will take down and practice with from time to time... take cost of ammo into consideration. A 45 or 9mm is fine if you are wanting to have a handgun. A shotgun with shortened barrel works fine too.
Do you live in a home or apartment? If a home is it close to another home? You will also need to think about loads so you have less chance of shooting through walls into other non-threat areas.
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For me it would be a 1st pistol. Reason behind looking at the M1911 is that it appeals to me for one to start out on. The others out there dont really catch my interest. I would have to be concerned about something with too much power since there is another residential house within 100 feet. Here at home it is more of a "just in case" with all the insanity going on. Would really like to have something to protect the family with if things go the wrong way
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How old is the family?
HiTech
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I'd like to have a beautiful little PPK to keep in my nightstand. This way I can defend myself in the covers with minimal clothing.
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I'll chime in here too. For caliber I'd recommend 9mm. The ammo is about the cheapest thing you will find for practice outside of 22 rimfire. It's also widely available. The "serious" ammo is also available but at a higher price of course. Think CCI gold dot for serious stuff for one. The white box Winchester is fine for familiarization and informal practice. There are several internet providers for ammo you can find on ammoseek. I have used LAX ammo without any issues on 9, 40 and 45. You do need to practice more than once or twice a year or your "skills" will fall through the floor under extreme stress. I highly recommend some kind of professional training. Stoppages are no fun when things are bad.
As to brand, I wouldn't look at Kimber or even les Baer, not that they make bad guns, but because they are pricey and lean towards accuracy first (Baer) and flashy looks (Kimber) more than reliability. I do not recommend plain jane GI sights. Those are hardly better then the hog trough groove on old time 6 guns. S&W, Ruger even Rock Island or Springfield all make very serviceable 1911's, Rock Island less expensively and more GI like.
Look for good sights first as they are not cheap to buy later on. You can get a rough gritty trigger fixed fairly cheaply by most any gunsmith that has been in business more than a couple years. Fixed sights are most common but I like adjustable ones more so I can tailor the point of impact to the ammo I choose. I also recommend a "beaver tail" grip safety as the old narrow style on GI guns WILL bite your hand with a high grip.
I'll be happy to talk "turkey" over the phone as well. Send me a PM if interested.
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How old is the family?
HiTech
Late 30's down to grade school
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I'll chime in here too. For caliber I'd recommend 9mm. The ammo is about the cheapest thing you will find for practice outside of 22 rimfire. It's also widely available. The "serious" ammo is also available but at a higher price of course. Think CCI gold dot for serious stuff for one. The white box Winchester is fine for familiarization and informal practice. There are several internet providers for ammo you can find on ammoseek. I have used LAX ammo without any issues on 9, 40 and 45. You do need to practice more than once or twice a year or your "skills" will fall through the floor under extreme stress. I highly recommend some kind of professional training. Stoppages are no fun when things are bad.
As to brand, I wouldn't look at Kimber or even les Baer, not that they make bad guns, but because they are pricey and lean towards accuracy first (Baer) and flashy looks (Kimber) more than reliability. I do not recommend plain jane GI sights. Those are hardly better then the hog trough groove on old time 6 guns. S&W, Ruger even Rock Island or Springfield all make very serviceable 1911's, Rock Island less expensively and more GI like.
Look for good sights first as they are not cheap to buy later on. You can get a rough gritty trigger fixed fairly cheaply by most any gunsmith that has been in business more than a couple years. Fixed sights are most common but I like adjustable ones more so I can tailor the point of impact to the ammo I choose. I also recommend a "beaver tail" grip safety as the old narrow style on GI guns WILL bite your hand with a high grip.
I'll be happy to talk "turkey" over the phone as well. Send me a PM if interested.
Ill keep the offer open :)
I was looking at a few by Rock Island the other night. Need to check out some training courses for safety also
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While I love the 1911 (long live J.M. Browning) for just good old shooting fun. I prefer something with a bigger magazine and no thumb safety as a defensive tool. You should definitely buy a 1911, I think it's a great 1st handgun and then maybe buy another gun, and another, and another for defensive purposes.
If you do have your heart set on a 1911 for a first gun, the good news is you have a plethora of choices, and most of them are pretty good. You've got the likes of Rock Island and Ruger on the bottom end of the price scale, mid-price would be stuff like Springfield, S&W and Colt, then you get into the higher end with Kimber, Ed Brown, Dan Wesson etc. Lastly you have the absolutely ridiculous priced stuff like Cabot.
Across the entire price spectrum you will not find much if any difference in reliability or accuracy (any handgun is usually more accurate then the user, especially in a pressure situation). The difference is in the fine details and fit and finish. But again the good news is that many 1911 parts are interchangeable and there is a huge aftermarket. You could buy the cheapest Rock Island, and then later swap in a better trigger, or safety lever, or barrel, or recoil spring, or grips, or main spring.. whatever you want.
I'm not gonna touch the .45ACP vs 9mm for self defense debate, it's a dead horse that's been beat for decades. Except to say that a TRUE 1911 should be chambered in .45ACP as our firearms lord and savior John Moses Browning intended.
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What saggs said. I've been contemplating the Rock Island .45 with some Wilson Combat mods, but I like to tinker. For home defense you're probably better off going with a stock firearm and the same ammo your local police force uses. That way you don't get sued for planning a murder. Also, I think what Hitech was considering is a safe storage unit so the kids can't get their hands on it. Certainly, think about that.
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While I love the look of a stock GI 1911, I wouldn't carry one without the beaver tail. The beaver tail not only protects you from getting "bit", but helps your muscle memory for holding the pistol the exact same way every time instead of trying to hold it lower to avoid injury. I think it feels a little more comfortable, too.
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Glock only.
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The Rock Island 1911/45 is a real nice solid pistol. Nice balance and real accurate at 30yds. I shot a doe on the run, in the head at that distance couple of years ago. Nothing fancy just basic issue stuff. I think I paid 400 or 450 for it.
As far as storage, check out Tactical Walls. They make some pretty cool stuff.
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Glock only.
I guess if you like a handgun with all the ergonomics of a brick, horrible sights, a grip angle made for people with deformed wrists, and a trigger with more creep than Harvey Weinstein.
:neener:
EDIT: I'm just trying to kick off the inevitable Glock fan-boy vs. 1911 fan-boy vs. CZ fan-boy rumble. :aok
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I guess if you like a handgun with all the ergonomics of a brick, horrible sights, a grip angle made for people with deformed wrists, and a trigger with more creep than Harvey Weinstein.
And a chamber that does not fully support the cartridge
And Polygonal Rifling that causes massive build up with Lead and Copper wash bullets.
And you can't use +P loads in
And you can't use handloads in without voiding your warranty.
And lack of a hammer which means you can only hit the primer once with the pin before ejecting the round.
I posted this on HT's new toy thread ....
The biggest problem with the Glocks in .40 S&W is that their chamber does not fully support the case, and the barrels design is not friendly to lead and copper wash bullets, You have to use copper jacketed rounds in a Glock. Scratch +P hot loads like Cor-bon and Buffalo bore to. Handloads void your warranty.
Unsupported Chamber, with a Polygonal rifled barrel, Firing Lead Bullets, Followed by +P Loads, causes a glock to go KABOOM!
http://f-r-i.com/glock/FAQ/FAQ-kb.htm
They also lack a hammer which brings up a new problem that left me with a scar under my right eye. I had a factory cartridge with a bad primer fail to fire. I waited the obligatory 10 count, ejected the round and BOOOM! the cartridge went off hitting me in the face with brass fragments .... If I wasn't wearing eye protection I would be blind in my right eye.
I returned my issued glock and purchased a Smith and Wesson 411 .40 and a Sig p229 .40, I fell in love the p229 and made it my primary duty/carry weapon.
I have loved Sigs ever since. Now I have a p220st .45 a p220 .40 and a p239 .40. I carry them all (Usually not at the same time).
Unfortunately Sig has been moving away from their p2XX designs for the last decade and I hear they are closing their European factories due to financial and legislative problems.
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I guess if you like a handgun with all the ergonomics of a brick, horrible sights, a grip angle made for people with deformed wrists, and a trigger with more creep than Harvey Weinstein.
:neener:
EDIT: I'm just trying to kick off the inevitable Glock fan-boy vs. 1911 fan-boy vs. CZ fan-boy rumble. :aok
It’s all in good fun! I love the m1911’s. The thing I like most about my glock is not having a button safety.
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"And you can't use handloads in without voiding your warranty."
Pretty much all handgun warranties have a similar clause in the fine print. Unless you get a catastrophic event I can't see how they could enforce it. Especially snice the Pro shooters using their products run lots of reloads through them in practice and competition.
I get it you don't like glocks. That's fine, handguns are a subjective topic, pretty much like ford vs chevy vs dodge etc. No need to be a broken record about it.
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Meatwad, there are a lot of 1911 models out there, make sure you try a few before spending $. Try and find a range that rents various 1911s and shoot some before making a decision, even regarding which caliber you want 9/45. 9mm is on a big upswing in 1911 sales, a very large portion of the 1911 market is 9mm now, with good reasons. Higher magazine capacity, less recoil, less cost, and with newer ammunition technology, very good effects on targets compared to the 9mms of the past.
Like Maverick mentioned, adjustable sights might be something you want to consider, but there are positives and negatives with pretty much every facet of picking a 1911 when it comes to features such as this. Adjustable sights, if you intend on taking any training on CQB pistol shooting, will frequently break when you use the sights to manipulate the slide for one handed malfunction drills etc - you'll be using the rear sight assembly to hook onto your belt, shoe heel, etc etc if you can only shoot/reload/clear with one hand during training drills. That said, with fixed rear sights you'll lose the ability to adjust the elevation of your sights, and sometimes even the windage as well depending on the type of rear sight.
I've got a few 9mm 1911s, a Nighthawk 1911 in 9mm, and a couple Kimber 9mm. My old company was the national distributor for Kimber here in Canada, so my vault at home was lousy with their stuff.
Again, try and at the very least hold and physically evaluate in person any 1911 you plan on buying as your first handgun. As well try and shoot a few different models and calibers too. Do research as well on any models you have it narrowed down to.
I still have my very first 1911, one of the Valtro 1998A1 models John Jardine made, I got one out of his first batch, and have 20k through it. I got pretty lucky getting it, and didn't buy it out of knowledge, research, or doing anything I should have done before purchasing a "first" handgun of any type. There wasn't nearly as much or as easy to access information back then, so take advantage of this Meatwad and make sure you get something you won't have any regrets over.
(https://i.imgur.com/wthZp50.jpg)