Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: surfinn on August 25, 2011, 05:45:55 PM
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Its silly how gamey a20s are in this game there isn't a real world incident ever where a medium bomber out fought a fighter. No f3 for fighters no f3 mode for anything else in MA. Lets take it back to real for a little bit and as Krusty would say a little less xbox please.
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Should the A20 have f3 mode? probably not, but you being pissed off about losing a fight to one isn't a good reason to remove f3 mode from all the aircraft that have it enabled.
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The only thing I use F3 for is to look at the 3D models of my bombers as I do a long flight, so I'd miss it for that. I don't use it to find enemy aircraft though, so that wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
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Its silly how gamey a20s are in this game there isn't a real world incident ever where a medium bomber out fought a fighter. No f3 for fighters no f3 mode for anything else in MA. Lets take it back to real for a little bit and as Krusty would say a little less xbox please.
I popped you twice while flying an A20 earlier today, although I got assists both times :furious. I don't use F3 mode. What I did use to get you both times was this little thing we like to call an High Yo-Yo.
If you guys didn't insist on dropping fighter hangars all the time, folks like me wouldn't have to make you look silly by killing you with A20s... :rofl
That said, I wouldn't care if F3 mode went away either. I just find it amusing that you feel you have to blame your failure on F3 mode.
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So you lost a fight to an A20, you ASSUME he used F3 mode to beat you but you can't prove it, and thus you now say that ALL planes should have F3 view removed.
Yeah we've been over this a million times. When you invent a way for me to do the jobs of 30 men at once then we'll talk about removing F3. Until then just suck it up and accept the fact you lost and move on.
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So you lost a fight to an A20, you ASSUME he used F3 mode to beat you but you can't prove it, and thus you now say that ALL planes should have F3 view removed.
Yeah we've been over this a million times. When you invent a way for me to do the jobs of 30 men at once then we'll talk about removing F3. Until then just suck it up and accept the fact you lost and move on.
+1,000 internets to you
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hell no, I like killing guys who think they can outmanouver a fighter. leave f3 alone for bombers, what's next the b26 with no f3 because it killed you too?
semp
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anyone who gets their butt handed to them by a A-20 should viset the TA, there are folks there that may be able to help you ;)
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Yeah. I would not suggest going the 'remove f3' route. I believe you're looking for the 'A20 is overmodeled' whine. Make sure to reference absolutely nothing factual to your screed as to why it needs to be changed.
Wiley.
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anyone who gets their butt handed to them by a A-20 should viset the TA, there are folks there that may be able to help you ;)
this
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Its silly how gamey a20s are in this game there isn't a real world incident ever where a medium bomber out fought a fighter. No f3 for fighters no f3 mode for anything else in MA. Lets take it back to real for a little bit and as Krusty would say a little less xbox please.
no. if you get killed by an A20 then you shut up, get over it and up again.
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I actually enjoy F3 mode just to look at the scenery or pass time while bored
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Its amazing all of you are such purist on other threads about it didn't happen in real world. Well guess what in real world a a20 never out fought a fighter ever. Make it real for everyone.
Cobia you are a well known f3 fighter mode a20 so please just put -1 and lets go from there.
As far as the I got beat by one BS, yes I did and I've shot down many who would fight one as a fighter. My opinion on the a20 is well known. If the Il2 doesn't have it then no medium bombers at the very least should be able to access the f3 mode. Ya have the power to do the job of 30 men at the touch of a key board my friend so why not do it the way the rest of us do from yr cockpit or yr guns.
But I'm sure all you XBOX fans will disagree. :joystick:
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Since it was removed from the IL-2, then it should be put into place for jeeps so I can drive into perk tanks to kill the driver
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Its amazing all of you are such purist on other threads about it didn't happen in real world. Well guess what in real world a a20 never out fought a fighter ever. Make it real for everyone.
Cobia you are a well known f3 fighter mode a20 so please just put -1 and lets go from there.
As far as the I got beat by one BS, yes I did and I've shot down many who would fight one as a fighter. My opinion on the a20 is well known. If the Il2 doesn't have it then no medium bombers at the very least should be able to access the f3 mode. Ya have the power to do the job of 30 men at the touch of a key board my friend so why not do it the way the rest of us do from yr cockpit or yr guns.
But I'm sure all you XBOX fans will disagree. :joystick:
if you think i am a f3 crutch user, you need to come up with another excuse.
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I predicted the A-20 will be next. Before you know it "it" will be rolling out of FHs too. To many using it as a fighter yaknow. :D
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if you think i am a f3 crutch user, you need to come up with another excuse.
K when ya fly yr a20 in fighter mode are you saying you dint use f3 mode? I wasn't making any excuses BTW. I've actual shot yr yr a20 down a few times. This thread is not a personal attack on anyone its simply my wish for the game.
:neener:
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K when ya fly yr a20 in fighter mode are you saying you dint use f3 mode? I wasn't making any excuses BTW. I've actual shot yr yr a20 down a few times. This thread is not a personal attack on anyone its simply my wish for the game.
:neener:
fix yr txt tlk plz. we might take you seriously then...
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See Rules #2, #4, #6
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im just curious.....
how does f3 mode give an A20 the advantage here? a20 is still heavy....still turns slower then fighters... tends to bleed its speed quickly...rips its wings off at about 400mph while it is very manuverable for its weight/size its no fighter.. so f3 mode or not a fighter still has the upper hand....
so f3 mode effects this one how?
also f3 mode is nice in c47s and is helpfull in things like stukas and b5s where you really cant see under you or fly upside down
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ya know surprisingly enough the a20 at low e can out turn a spit in here. The f3 mode gives it views that it other wise would not have. But I'm not talking about just the a20 although it is a pet peeve of mine. I really think it should be eliminated in all ac in the MA. Save it for the DA fighter aces who seem to love it so much.
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K when ya fly yr a20 in fighter mode are you saying you dint use f3 mode? I wasn't making any excuses BTW. I've actual shot yr yr a20 down a few times. This thread is not a personal attack on anyone its simply my wish for the game.
:neener:
It appears that the A20 does not have a "fighter" mode. Your choices are "bomber" and "attack". Unless HTC has released a cobia a20 hack like the SAPP 38 hack and the grizzK4 hack... :noid
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See Rules #2, #4, #6
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See Rules #2, #4, #6
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ya know surprisingly enough the a20 at low e can out turn a spit in here. The f3 mode gives it views that it other wise would not have. But I'm not talking about just the a20 although it is a pet peeve of mine. I really think it should be eliminated in all ac in the MA. Save it for the DA fighter aces who seem to love it so much.
are you sure becuase this thread seems to be directly related to a20s espcially after calling cobia out... i have yet to see you make a referance to why it should actaully be removed another then for use in an a20...
and no a a20 cannot out turn a spit and if it does as one person said "go to the TA" also all depends on what model spit to..
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See Rules #2, #4, #6
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It appears that the A20 does not have a "fighter" mode. Your choices are "bomber" and "attack". Unless HTC has released a cobia a20 hack like the SAPP 38 hack and the grizzK4 hack... :noid
shhushhhhh dont speak of the A-20 fighter mode hack..... others may get wronge ideas :noid
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shhushhhhh dont speak of the A-20 fighter mode hack..... others may get wronge ideas :noid
:noid dont say the words "a20" and "fighter" in the same sentence :noid people will get wrong ideaz from that :noid
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Well yes its about sa and using the same parameters everyone else has to use. I have flown the a20 in f3 mode and killed spits, fm2s, f4uids and p47d25s and others. Humm why should it go because its a :joystick: option. I thought the game was supposed to be based on real flying and not the XBOX stuff. No f3 for fighters no f3 for bombers simple as that. I do not want f3 mode for fighters I just want bombers to be bombers.
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See Rules #2, #4, #6
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Its fine the way it is
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ya know surprisingly enough the a20 at low e can out turn a spit in here.
False.
It may out turn a foolish pilot of the spit.
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My B25 can easily out turn any Spitfire.....
Wait for it....
.......on the ground.
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I think it's sort of a fair balance seeing as how almost all planes with F3 mode have a gunner. Only exception is the Bf110, Mossie, and recently added IL2. Think of F3 mode as a way to balance the fact that you had 2 an extra pair of eyes in the plane.
IMO, if the above three planes got F3 mode, it wouldn't be THAT game breaking. It still performs the same. Cockpit view in the 110 is excellent, Mossie is decent but not great, and the Il2 is horrible, but the Il2 and Bf110 both have gunners.
So I say let all planes with 2 or more persons in it have F3 mode.
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So I say let all planes with 2 or more persons in it have F3 mode.
Actually the funny thing is the A20 has 2 gunners, the turret gunner and a ventral gunner that fires a 30 cal through a hatch. At the time HTC modeled the A20 they couldn't find good picture references to model the inside of the A20 so they left it out, hopefully that will be changed when it gets remolded.
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Personally, even if F3 mode was added to these planes, I would still use cockpit view because you have a crosshair. Simply judging where to shoot based on tracers seems like a waste of ammo to me.
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See Rules #2, #4, #6
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im just curious.....
how does f3 mode give an A20 the advantage here? a20 is still heavy....still turns slower then fighters... tends to bleed its speed quickly...rips its wings off at about 400mph while it is very manuverable for its weight/size its no fighter.. so f3 mode or not a fighter still has the upper hand....
so f3 mode effects this one how?
also f3 mode is nice in c47s and is helpfull in things like stukas and b5s where you really cant see under you or fly upside down
As in the IL2, F3 view, in theory, allows deflection shots to be made that could not accurately be made from the cockpit due to not being able to see through the nose.
I think it's sort of a fair balance seeing as how almost all planes with F3 mode have a gunner. Only exception is the Bf110, Mossie, and recently added IL2. Think of F3 mode as a way to balance the fact that you had 2 an extra pair of eyes in the plane.
IMO, if the above three planes got F3 mode, it wouldn't be THAT game breaking. It still performs the same. Cockpit view in the 110 is excellent, Mossie is decent but not great, and the Il2 is horrible, but the Il2 and Bf110 both have gunners.
So I say let all planes with 2 or more persons in it have F3 mode.
Neither the Bf110s nor Mosquito VI have F3 view. It is very simple, if the aircraft is a 'bomber', i.e. spawn is based on the bomber hangars, it has F3 view. If the aircraft is a 'fighter', i.e. spawn is based on the fighter hangars, it does not have F3 view. Il-2 was simply moved from the bomber hangar to the fighter hangar.
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OK the f3 mode gives every ac that has it a advantage that it shouldn't have. I very rarely use it myself even when in a massive bomber like the ju87. Those who complain about it being taken away are the ones who use it the most. I personally feel like they are the minority in AH and thus f3 should go away for all ac.
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I know that the Bf110 and Mossie doesn't have F3 mode.
I'm saying that they should, since visibility is good in both aircraft and because both planes have a gunner/co pilot, it would make sense since you're giving the player an advantage over single seat planes. Think of F3 mode as a way to give the player an extra set of eyes.
If you're the pilot and shooting at the enemy, your copilot and/or gunner is probably watching your surroundings for other planes. F3 mode is basically the same thing. You are shooting at a target but is able to see your surroundings as well.
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Sometimes, just sometimes the other guy flew better and that's why they won. Try not to get the ego all
wrapped up in the fight. Last flight was ancient history, learn from it and move on.
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I know that the Bf110 and Mossie doesn't have F3 mode.
I'm saying that they should, since visibility is good in both aircraft and because both planes have a gunner/co pilot, it would make sense since you're giving the player an advantage over single seat planes. Think of F3 mode as a way to give the player an extra set of eyes.
If you're the pilot and shooting at the enemy, your copilot and/or gunner is probably watching your surroundings for other planes. F3 mode is basically the same thing. You are shooting at a target but is able to see your surroundings as well.
I disagree. I do not think that the Mossie or Bf110s should have F3 view. Mossie XVI shouldn't either, but as it has no guns it is pretty harmless.
If it were up to me, the following aircraft would have F3:
B-17G
B-24J
B-25C
B-25H
B-26B
B-29A
G4M1
Ju88A-4
Ki-67
Lancaster Mk III
TBM-3
If the ventral gun on the A-20G were added, it would make the list too.
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Nobody used F3 on the IL2...they all said so in threads such as this
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F3 mode is being abused but I can't comment on whether it was used for the reason this thread exists.
I don't think any plane with pilot controlled forward guns should have F3 because it allows someone to hit f3 then f8 and move the view up to make deflection shots way below the nose while not losing view.
For the main arena, I don't really think any plane should have f3 because it allows heavy bombers to act like stukas where the reality is that the pilots would have a huge struggle to bank the bomber, acquire the ground target once they close within d1500, and then nose down to make the drop.
With F3 even a b29 can fly about dive bombing ground vehicles.
A compromise would be to allow F3 mode from all mannable guns but not the pilot position and bombardier.
This way you still can get outside to admire your beautiful plane.....provided you are in a plane with gunner positions.........or you're not in the main arenas.
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Well guess what in real world a a20 never out fought a fighter ever.
Not quite right there is only a few instances where the western allies used them & only a couple of kills recorded.
The Russians on the other hand did use them a lot as fighters. I have been looking for info & there is not a lot out there. How ever the Russians did a lot of weird & wonderful things with their A20's. Air to air rockets rear ward air to air rockets for enemy's who got on their six & they do have recorded kills that I have been finding out about.
Point being the Russians were thinking out of the box with the A20 we in the west chose not to fight with it & didn't for the most part. With time when more Russian information makes it's way west hopefully we will have a better appreciation for what this aircraft was capable of.
As far as F3 mode is concerned when it next gets remodeled & the ventral gun is added sure get rid of it.
As some one who uses the A20 & Boston a lot to dog fight with I can tell you shooting in F3 mode is useless. Only time I use F3 mode is to pan about to see who is getting on my six.
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icepack so b26 shouldn't have f3?
semp
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Not quite right there is only a few instances where the western allies used them & only a couple of kills recorded.
The Russians on the other hand did use them a lot as fighters. I have been looking for info & there is not a lot out there. How ever the Russians did a lot of weird & wonderful things with their A20's. Air to air rockets rear ward air to air rockets for enemy's who got on their six & they do have recorded kills that I have been finding out about.
Point being the Russians were thinking out of the box with the A20 we in the west chose not to fight with it & didn't for the most part. With time when more Russian information makes it's way west hopefully we will have a better appreciation for what this aircraft was capable of.
As far as F3 mode is concerned when it next gets remodeled & the ventral gun is added sure get rid of it.
As some one who uses the A20 & Boston a lot to dog fight with I can tell you shooting in F3 mode is useless. Only time I use F3 mode is to pan about to see who is getting on my six.
russian were not thinking "out of the box". to them it was about stopping the germans no matter what. they would send whatever they could get their hands on and send it up to kill anything or die. I remember reading here about how the germans would shoot the lead plane as they were the only one who had info about targets, or whatever and the rest would just fly straight until they ran out of gas and crashed.
I am pretty sure if you look hard enough that a few fighters were shot down with .45 pistols. but it doesnt mean we had squads of guys defending bases against air raids with just their side arms.
semp
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russian were not thinking "out of the box". to them it was about stopping the germans no matter what. they would send whatever they could get their hands on and send it up to kill anything or die. I remember reading here about how the germans would shoot the lead plane as they were the only one who had info about targets, or whatever and the rest would just fly straight until they ran out of gas and crashed.
I am pretty sure if you look hard enough that a few fighters were shot down with .45 pistols. but it doesnt mean we had squads of guys defending bases against air raids with just their side arms.
semp
You clearly have not read anything about the Russians & there use with the A-20. If you had you would not have made the above post.
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Although I would prefer it if the A-20 had no F3 view, I definitely will take advantage of having F3 view when I fly it. Its effectiveness makes it the M-18 of airplanes.
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I would like to see F3-Mode be disabled for all A/C and vehicles in the MA, but only if there was some sort of replacement for the SA that is lost.
F3-Mode seems natural given that our crews don't really exist, they can't fire on their own and they don't communicate about targets and threats. So tapping F3 and twirling the hatswitch around seems like a simple solution to achieve the abilities of a full, well-trained, and experienced crew.
I think if pictures of the corresponding number key(s) mapped to the different positions throughout the craft appeared at the top of the screen when an enemy icon appears in its cone of fire, F3-Mode could be disabled. The game would be a little more realistic and the game would be more in-depth and dynamic. Some bombers will have blind spots, some will have several positions light up at once, and "Ghost's-eye View" will be gone forever.
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You clearly have not read anything about the Russians & there use with the A-20. If you had you would not have made the above post.
ever seen enemy at the gates. where the soldiers who retreated were shot by the russians? or you ever hear about the russians the german's captured as pow how they were executed by the russians upon liberation. there was no outside of the box. they gave people a weapon, some bullets, a plane or whatever and they told them to go kill and die trying or they would be shot.
semp
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oh sure, if Jude Law says so it must be verified historical truth. :)
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Ive seen enemy at the gates several times, I dont remember any A20s in it though :headscratch:
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Anyone pwnd in a fighter by an A20 (in a dogfight) is welcome to fill out this form and send it to Helen Waite (in triplicate, of course)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/butthurtform.jpg)
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You forgot to specify which paper shredder to file this form in once completed.
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ever seen enemy at the gates. where the soldiers who retreated were shot by the russians? or you ever hear about the russians the german's captured as pow how they were executed by the russians upon liberation. there was no outside of the box. they gave people a weapon, some bullets, a plane or whatever and they told them to go kill and die trying or they would be shot.
semp
:bhead
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:bhead
Reminds of the time when these B25J's took off from a Nuclear Aircraft Carrier to bomb Tokyo. Or the time the Germans used M60 Patton tanks to assault General Patton during the battle of Kasserine Pass.
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oh sure, if Jude Law says so it must be verified historical truth. :)
Well it was, right? :O ...You mean it's not? ...But Ben Affleck and Cuba Gooding really WERE at Pearl Harbor, right?
So confused now...
Wiley.
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Ive seen enemy at the gates several times, I dont remember any A20s in it though :headscratch:
I read my post, I didn't day there were.
semp
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Anyone pwnd in a fighter by an A20 (in a dogfight) is welcome to fill out this form and send it to Helen Waite (in triplicate, of course)
Well they got their way with continued sniveling about the IL2 being such a dangerous ATA fighter :headscratch: so why not now the A20 ? Most of all since its so much faster, climbs better, and probably outurns the IL2. Plus it has a rear gun that can actually hurt you, along with a P-47s worth in its nose. Thats the official story at least.
Course the 8 500lb bombs in it has nothing to do with it. Now does F3s ability to help you line up GVs prior to your dive. :lol
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:bhead
Reminds of the time when these B25J's took off from a Nuclear Aircraft Carrier to bomb Tokyo.
I can't tell if you are being serious or not...
I would like to see F3-Mode be disabled for all A/C and vehicles in the MA, but only if there was some sort of replacement for the SA that is lost.
F3-Mode seems natural given that our crews don't really exist, they can't fire on their own and they don't communicate about targets and threats. So tapping F3 and twirling the hatswitch around seems like a simple solution to achieve the abilities of a full, well-trained, and experienced crew.
I think if pictures of the corresponding number key(s) mapped to the different positions throughout the craft appeared at the top of the screen when an enemy icon appears in its cone of fire, F3-Mode could be disabled. The game would be a little more realistic and the game would be more in-depth and dynamic. Some bombers will have blind spots, some will have several positions light up at once, and "Ghost's-eye View" will be gone forever.
Yes but at the same time unless you wanted to put 8 guys in every bomber, taking the F3 mode away from one gunner is like putting us bombers on a pinata for the fighters....
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Ive seen enemy at the gates several times, I dont remember any A20s in it though :headscratch:
Jude Law was to busy in his P-40.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/600_Sky_Captain-018.jpg)
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Remove the f3 from DA. only reason why I dot fly there anymore. Planes are making the most redicules shots...
Also DA wish, if you want the temp still available let us have a 262 enabled
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I actually enjoy F3 mode just to look at the scenery or pass time while bored
Or to make sure you're in perfect position to drop the last fighter hangar. I will never forget that sortie with ya! "Das Funkillah!"
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Jude Law was to busy in his P-40.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/600_Sky_Captain-018.jpg)
gwyneth paltrow and jude law in the same movie ... (http://www.throttlejockey.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/SmileySuicide.gif)
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The solution is to only allow F3 mode when you are in a position other than the pilot.
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The solution is to only allow F3 mode when you are in a position other than the pilot.
I think the solution is to disallow firing while in F3 mode. I think that the argument for F3 in multi crew aircraft is a pretty good one. Allowing the player to shoot from F3, however, is pretty tough to defend, in my opinion.
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I think the solution is to disallow firing while in F3 mode. I think that the argument for F3 in multi crew aircraft is a pretty good one. Allowing the player to shoot from F3, however, is pretty tough to defend, in my opinion.
sensible solution to the f3 whine.
semp
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I think the solution is to disallow firing while in F3 mode. I think that the argument for F3 in multi crew aircraft is a pretty good one. Allowing the player to shoot from F3, however, is pretty tough to defend, in my opinion.
:aok
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And... surfinn has disappeared. :lol
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Who really cares if the A20 has F3 mode. It's a non issue being made by a player that got his bellybutton handed to him by a plane he is trying to use as a scapegoat to explain away his suckage.
I still luv you surfinn, but this is true.
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Or to make sure you're in perfect position to drop the last fighter hangar. I will never forget that sortie with ya! "Das Funkillah!"
Man that was freakin funny!
Remember someone screaming on vox "Who was the retard that killed the FH!?"
Tee Hee :D
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Grizz the incident pfactor was referring to was not just one a20 but several mixed with la7s. Heck it was the la7s that took my wings actually. No this isn't a wine about getting shot down. Like I said I have actually used the a20 to defend bases where the fh is down. It's just flat gamy and I don't shot from the f3 mode but rather maneuver to position using it and then go back to sights. As far as bomber crews go and using f3 in place of them well bombers aren't supposed to be easy. No f3 for them either just cycle through your guns or have a gunner on board. Like I said before the key board gives you the power of 30 men.
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Grizz the incident pfactor was referring to was not just one a20 but several mixed with la7s. Heck it was the la7s that took my wings actually. No this isn't a wine about getting shot down. Like I said I have actually used the a20 to defend bases where the fh is down. It's just flat gamy and I don't shot from the f3 mode but rather maneuver to position using it and then go back to sights. As far as bomber crews go and using f3 in place of them well bombers aren't supposed to be easy. No f3 for them either just cycle through your guns or have a gunner on board. Like I said before the key board gives you the power of 30 men.
Yeah but it's a damned A20, who cares? A20s are used mostly for base defense once the FH's have been dropped, so F3 mode inconveniences the offensive team holding the numerical advantage and altitude advantage? Oh boo hoo for them.
TBH I wish IL2s would have F3 reenabled, not have A20s join them in the neutering.
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Most popular the Mosquito VI ever was, was immediately after it was introduced in AH v1.08 and was listed as a bomber. Anytime the FHs went down, hordes of Mossie VIs would up to defend the base. AH v1.08 Patch 1 put a stop to that.
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Yeah but it's a damned A20, who cares? A20s are used mostly for base defense once the FH's have been dropped, so F3 mode inconveniences the offensive team holding the numerical advantage and altitude advantage? Oh boo hoo for them.
TBH I wish IL2s would have F3 reenabled, not have A20s join them in the neutering.
This thread is not soaly about a20s. I'll admit they are a pet peeve of mine along with ju88s, as a fighter. I don't think its neutering them at all but rather making them better flyer's in the same plane. It's also a lot more realistic. Like you have said in several post if it cant be historically backed then your against it so why aren't you against F3?
Here is a suggestion that may serve the historical point of view as well as my own. instead of f3 mode Have the gunners call out on text buffer enemy ac 109f 5k. 2 o'clock, and as the gunners are killed they go silent.
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Nope. Flying buffs requires SA
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This thread is not soaly about a20s. I'll admit they are a pet peeve of mine along with ju88s, as a fighter. I don't think its neutering them at all but rather making them better flyer's in the same plane. It's also a lot more realistic. Like you have said in several post if it cant be historically backed then your against it so why aren't you against F3?
Here is a suggestion that may serve the historical point of view as well as my own. instead of f3 mode Have the gunners call out on text buffer enemy ac 109f 5k. 2 o'clock, and as the gunners are killed they go silent.
so you want lots of new coading just because an a20 shot you down :). and last I checked in ww2 gunners didnt send a telegram to the pilot when they saw enemy ib.
semp
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no semp they didn't they had that new fangled thing called an intercom. (idiot)
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no semp they didn't they had that new fangled thing called an intercom. (idiot)
You're the one who suggested they telegram the pilot....
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no semp they didn't they had that new fangled thing called an intercom. (idiot)
so then why text buffer? you are the idiot. if it was intercom then it's vox.
semp
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See Rule #4
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dude you are the one who was dumb enough to get shot down by an a20 then come here and want to make it easier on you.
semp
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Ya semp well its not about me getting shot down by a A20 never has been. I'm absolutely sure that's what you want to turn this thread into but it is not about that. So please stick to the subject if ya dint want f3 to be removed then say so in a intelligent way like -1. with comment on why it doesn't work for you. (idiot)
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Ya semp well its not about me getting shot down by a A20 never has been. I'm absolutely sure that's what you want to turn this thread into but it is not about that. So please stick to the subject if ya dint want f3 to be removed then say so in a intelligent way like -1. with comment on why it doesn't work for you. (idiot)
:rofl your calling semp an idiot? honestly, a duck with the size of a small tortilla chip is smarter than you.
this thread has obviously been made because you have been downed by an A-20. probably deserved it because you flew like an idiot.
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Ya semp well its not about me getting shot down by a A20 never has been. I'm absolutely sure that's what you want to turn this thread into but it is not about that. So please stick to the subject if ya dint want f3 to be removed then say so in a intelligent way like -1. with comment on why it doesn't work for you. (idiot)
-1
F-3 mode is a fame concession made to balance the fact that, in bombers, there are multiple gunner positions. These gunners were afforded the use of an inter-ship intercom by which they could communicate with each other.
In Aces High, this is not the case. The coding allows only one gunner position to be filled, regardless of how many positions are available per particular plane and because of this, allows F3 mode in bomber type aircraft with multiple gunner positions to make up for the lack of multiple "eyes in the sky".
The Havoc is armed as follows:
4× fixed 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns in the nose
2× flexible 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns, mounted dorsally
1× flexible 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Vickers K machine gun, mounted ventrally
Planes such as the IL2, Bf 110 series, etc. only have one rear-facing gunner position, and therefore do not have F3 mode available. Even if one took a gunner in planes with only a tail-gunner position, the view is still only limited to that of a forward or aft view, unlike other bombers with different combinations of a dorsal, ventral, forward, aft, or port/starboard view.
This is why the Havoc has F3 view enabled and it is the reason it was removed from the IL-2. The biggest threat from the A-20 are the nose guns which, at .303 caliber and set at optimum convergence (meaning that when grouped in such a fashion the the edges of each round touch and do not overlap), the maximum diameter of an entry hole (considering the diameter of the hole as an inscribed circle into which the shot group can fit into) is .731" or < 3/4", per shot group landed which is smaller than the diameter of a quarter (.944").
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/A20.jpg)
Upon further speculation and review, if one got one's self into a position where one allowed one's self to get peppered by a sufficient number of less than quarter-sized holes to destroy or render one's aircraft non-airworthy, it is the fault of the one being shot at and not related to any flaw or faulty lines of code in the software.
Carry on.
:salute
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Damn you guys are as dumb as a box of rocks. If you don't get what I was laying down then wow :devil
We got it, it is you who are missing the point here.
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Von.. the a20 has 8x50bmg's :)
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-1
F-3 mode is a fame concession made to balance the fact that, in bombers, there are multiple gunner positions. These gunners were afforded the use of an inter-ship intercom by which they could communicate with each other.
I believe the A20 have .50 cals. ;)
F3 mode should be disabled on planes that manuever to kill enemies with guns fired by the pilot. This is the reason F3 was turned off on the Il-2. Most A20 pilots fly them in fighter mode as well. If the pilot is going to dog fight you and kill you [A20s are very good turny birds] they should be limited to a pilots view. F3 is gamey in the A20, the same way it's Gamey in an IL-2
For the record F3 mode in Buff formations is not required in my opinion. It's extremely easy to push the 2 key, and 3 key, and 4 key and have quick look aorund the plane. I would say that is even easier than in real life where a gunner had to yell into a squalk box to tell all the other gunners where the bandits were. F3 in buffs is overkill as a solution to "many eyes to see the enemy"
BUT...I don't think F3 in buff formations provides a real benefit, and many have said they love to view the planes flying from the F3 mode because it's cool. So I wouldn't disable it over it's Buff gamey-ness.
But But if hangar assignments [IL-2 moved to Fighter hangar] is the only way to avaoid F3 mode disparities, AND that can't fixed simply in the code, I'd be for eliminating F3 in flight for everything before we moved more bombers to the fighter hangar to correct A20 gamey-ness.
So I guess +1 for fixing the A20. :salute
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vonmesa, the Il2 wasn't changed because it has no ventral gunner. It was changed because very specific tactics were constantly being used to abuse the system so that most of its sorties were an abuse of F3 in a way the plane should or could never have flown.
It had nothing to do with the bomber classification as much as the way this "bomber" plane was wildly abused and used in AH. Just the overall manner it's used as a fighter against base takes once FH are down, the way it would bob and weave in F3 in negative G porpoise flops (which you can't do in F1 mode because you'd crash and you couldn't see where the enemy was to do it), and all that jazz.
Because of this, the changing of the IL2 is more an exception than the rule. Like the Chog being perked. It was done only as a reaction to the way AH mis-used the item in question.
Going back to F3 without consideration of the IL2's loss of it, it is based on the craft class rather than the gunner placement.
It definitely is easy to abuse, and it definitely is a crutch. I saw enough HTH folks crying about losing F3 in certain rooms way back to notice that. However it is a case-by-case basis and purely decided by HTC. There is no single rule to define its application in AH. You are right in that it is designed to simulate multiple eyes in multiple directions, but this is not dependent on the gun position those eyes are placed. It's boolean. Either on or off.
P.S. If we were to ever receive a Ju88C or solid nose variant, I'd definitely want F3 disabled on it. They were flown as heavy fighters.
Has anybody ever suggested the only planes to get F3 should be those that have formations? Seems like a reasonable "general rule" (with any exceptions HTC deems warranted down the line)
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I see. We have the G model. I never really noticed.
This shows you how often I've even flown one.
The AHWiki states (6) .50 caliber.
Still hardy a cannon bird in wolf's clothing.
Although 6, .50 caliber are dangerous in the right hands, anyone getting caught wallowing around in front of an A-20 long enough to be affected by them is still doing something wrong.
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vonmesa, the Il2 wasn't changed because it has no ventral gunner. It was changed because very specific tactics were constantly being used to abuse the system so that most of its sorties were an abuse of F3 in a way the plane should or could never have flown.
It had nothing to do with the bomber classification as much as the way this "bomber" plane was wildly abused and used in AH. Just the overall manner it's used as a fighter against base takes once FH are down, the way it would bob and weave in F3 in negative G porpoise flops (which you can't do in F1 mode because you'd crash and you couldn't see where the enemy was to do it), and all that jazz.
Because of this, the changing of the IL2 is more an exception than the rule. Like the Chog being perked. It was done only as a reaction to the way AH mis-used the item in question.
Going back to F3 without consideration of the IL2's loss of it, it is based on the craft class rather than the gunner placement.
It definitely is easy to abuse, and it definitely is a crutch. I saw enough HTH folks crying about losing F3 in certain rooms way back to notice that. However it is a case-by-case basis and purely decided by HTC. There is no single rule to define its application in AH. You are right in that it is designed to simulate multiple eyes in multiple directions, but this is not dependent on the gun position those eyes are placed. It's boolean. Either on or off.
P.S. If we were to ever receive a Ju88C or solid nose variant, I'd definitely want F3 disabled on it. They were flown as heavy fighters.
Has anybody ever suggested the only planes to get F3 should be those that have formations? Seems like a reasonable "general rule" (with any exceptions HTC deems warranted down the line)
Regardless of how gamey or abusive of coding it may be, it still begs the question of what in the hell got a fighter plane in front of the guns of such a slow, plodding and not-quite-as-nimble of a plane as a medium bomber?
I don't really see how having an F3 mode on such a plane gives an advantage beyond a visual one.
Stay away from the frontal guns. Just like one shouldn't hang around the back end of Lancaster.
It is too easy.
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vonmesa, the Il2 wasn't changed because it has no ventral gunner. It was changed because very specific tactics were constantly being used to abuse the system so that most of its sorties were an abuse of F3 in a way the plane should or could never have flown.
It had nothing to do with the bomber classification as much as the way this "bomber" plane was wildly abused and used in AH. Just the overall manner it's used as a fighter against base takes once FH are down, the way it would bob and weave in F3 in negative G porpoise flops (which you can't do in F1 mode because you'd crash and you couldn't see where the enemy was to do it), and all that jazz.
Because of this, the changing of the IL2 is more an exception than the rule. Like the Chog being perked. It was done only as a reaction to the way AH mis-used the item in question.
Going back to F3 without consideration of the IL2's loss of it, it is based on the craft class rather than the gunner placement.
It definitely is easy to abuse, and it definitely is a crutch. I saw enough HTH folks crying about losing F3 in certain rooms way back to notice that. However it is a case-by-case basis and purely decided by HTC. There is no single rule to define its application in AH. You are right in that it is designed to simulate multiple eyes in multiple directions, but this is not dependent on the gun position those eyes are placed. It's boolean. Either on or off.
P.S. If we were to ever receive a Ju88C or solid nose variant, I'd definitely want F3 disabled on it. They were flown as heavy fighters.
Has anybody ever suggested the only planes to get F3 should be those that have formations? Seems like a reasonable "general rule" (with any exceptions HTC deems warranted down the line)
Again, I really have a hard time sympathizing with B&Z'ers holding all the cards, diving on IL2's to bounce them, only to overshoot and get blasted. Whenever I dove on Ghi's IL2 to pick him and subsequently overshot and got blasted, I always felt like a horse's bellybutton for being lazy and letting him kill me in that fashion. Blaming the 150 mph IL2 for the fact that you missed him and died is just an epic whine.
Bleed my heart does not.
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Again, I really have a hard time sympathizing with B&Z'ers holding all the cards, diving on IL2's to bounce them, only to overshoot and get blasted. Whenever I dove on Ghi's IL2 to pick him and subsequently overshot and got blasted, I always felt like a horse's bellybutton for being lazy and letting him kill me in that fashion. Blaming the 150 mph IL2 for the fact that you missed him and died is just an epic whine.
Bleed my heart does not.
whenever i know an IL2 is ghi, i clench my butt cheeks, dive down, shoot and hope he doesnt pistol whip me in the neck and blasts my wings off with the 37mm's... :banana:
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Again, I really have a hard time sympathizing with B&Z'ers holding all the cards, diving on IL2's to bounce them, only to overshoot and get blasted. Whenever I dove on Ghi's IL2 to pick him and subsequently overshot and got blasted, I always felt like a horse's bellybutton for being lazy and letting him kill me in that fashion. Blaming the 150 mph IL2 for the fact that you missed him and died is just an epic whine.
Bleed my heart does not.
GHi always flew in a low horde. This forced the bandit's speed up so the bandit wouldn't simply get picked by one od Ghi's 15 wingmen. The only reason you overshot without "Sploding" him, was due to him watching you coming from F3 mode and timing a stick stir to minimize hits, which the contrete IL-2 could absorb, so he would be alive to shoot you on the pass.
Without F3 mode this strategy and technique is kaput as it should be. Never had a problem killing him when there was no horde. Slow down, turn the plane, Boom. :salute
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GHi always flew in a low horde. This forced the bandit's speed up so the bandit wouldn't simply get picked by one od Ghi's 15 wingmen. The only reason you overshot without "Sploding" him, was due to him watching you coming from F3 mode and timing a stick stir to minimize hits, which the contrete IL-2 could absorb, so he would be alive to shoot you on the pass.
Without F3 mode this strategy and technique is kaput as it should be. Never had a problem killing him when there was no horde. Slow down, turn the plane, Boom. :salute
He always flew in a "low" horde? :headscratch:
I saw his IL2 as the only plane against 10 enemies perched above him numerous times. He would always go up his IL2 at the base that was in trouble. Whether or not others joined him was independent.
Side Note: I don't believe a bunch of low defenders can ever be classified as a "horde".
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He always flew in a "low" horde? :headscratch:
I saw his IL2 as the only plane against 10 enemies perched above him numerous times. He would always go up his IL2 at the base that was in trouble. Whether or not others joined him was independent.
Side Note: I don't believe a bunch of low defenders can ever be classified as a "horde".
I would be inclined to agree with that.
Hordes travel.
Defenders do so when they are willing and able. If there are a lot of defenders at a field, it is because there were a lot that were willing and able. It is not because they all traveled there from some other location to cause damage.
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He always flew in a "low" horde? :headscratch:
I saw his IL2 as the only plane against 10 enemies perched above him numerous times. He would always go up his IL2 at the base that was in trouble. Whether or not others joined him was independent.
Side Note: I don't believe a bunch of low defenders can ever be classified as a "horde".
That's exactly what was refering to. Show up at base and there are 10-15 bandits running around on the deck, and the ACK is up. Looked like a horde to me, but if you don't want to classify that sa a horde, I won't argue. To me a "Horde" is when they have so many planes that no matter which way the plane I'm chasing turns, someone has his back.
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a horde is like a ho. only the other people do it.
semp
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That's exactly what was refering to. Show up at base and there are 10-15 bandits running around on the deck, and the ACK is up. Looked like a horde to me, but if you don't want to classify that sa a horde, I won't argue. To me a "Horde" is when they have so many planes that no matter which way the plane I'm chasing turns, someone has his back.
That is because all of your friends died before you....
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I saw his IL2 as the only plane against 10 enemies perched above him numerous times. He would always go up his IL2 at the base that was in trouble. Whether or not others joined him was independent.
I agree with Grizz on this one. I didn't consider the Il2s F3 mode a game changer either, but it did force you do be a lot more careful when flying straight up the rectum.
Unfortunately, his tactics caught on and soon there was several Il2s doing the same maneuver. They looked like a school of dolphins (pod for you anal retentive types), and like anything else, if the community can't police itself, HTC will do it for us.
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I agree with Grizz on this one. I didn't consider the Il2s F3 mode a game changer either, but it did force you do be a lot more careful when flying straight up the rectum.
Unfortunately, his tactics caught on and soon there was several Il2s doing the same maneuver. They looked like a school of dolphins (pod for you anal retentive types), and like anything else, if the community can't police itself, HTC will do it for us.
I just don't think that the A20 is as stout of a plane as the IL2 is and therefore, should be quite damaged on a pass. Especially with cannons.
A lot more than the IL2 was, at any rate.
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I just don't think that the A20 is as stout of a plane as the IL2 is and therefore, should be quite damaged on a pass. Especially with cannons.
I find they have similar amounts of armor, the biggest difference is the size of the A20 which generally leads to more hits.
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Ghi is one of my heroes in this game. Always got a salute form me in that il2 of his.
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I shouldn't drink and post. Semp I apologize for my earlyear comment it was uncalled for :o
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no apologies needed. nothing better than having a couple of beers and discuss things with friends :salute.
semp
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Or a ginger-ale.
:D
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Has anybody ever suggested the only planes to get F3 should be those that have formations? Seems like a reasonable "general rule" (with any exceptions HTC deems warranted down the line)
I have long held this view......... combined with a re look at how AH uses its "attack" classification and what is / is not enabled or disabled when formations are or are not chosen.
It would make a more plausible arguement IMO if the replacement for F3 was combined with a method to rapidly scroll through preset views from the various gunner (or even and navigator) positions to make up for the lack of this external global perspective.
Another option would be to make F3 itself a view system where the point of origin could only be from such various points in the ac where there were gunners/ pilits/ navigators etc. (i.e. not actually external to the the ac) even better if as various gunner positions get shot out so do their view points.
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TBH I would love to see F3 mode accessible to ANY airplane as long as the auto pilot is engaged. Every now and then there are times when it would be nice to step away and see what is around you while...lets say a call of nature...etc... from afar.
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hey hey ho ho f3 mode has got to go
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Its so pretty on a set of 17s at 30k though :confused:
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Yes it is... It would be even prettire if it were 8 or 10 sets of 17s at 30k with YB-40s for escort, and maybe a couple of 51s in there, too. :D
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Leave F3 mode in for the planes that currently have it... just remove the ability to fire guns or drop bombs while in it. It should be used for SA only.
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What's SA?
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What's SA?
Situational Awareness... AKA: Knowing what is around you.
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The thing that continues to amaze me is the amount of people who think that gunning in F3 actually gives you some huge advantage. I've tried to gun in F3, however, I had a problem. There was this big plane blocking or distorting my view of the enemy.
Now when dropping bombs I can see some advantages, however, I still feel that using the gun-site gives far better accuracy and reference points that simply using Kentucky Windage.
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The thing that continues to amaze me is the amount of people who think that gunning in F3 actually gives you some huge advantage. I've tried to gun in F3, however, I had a problem. There was this big plane blocking or distorting my view of the enemy.
Now when dropping bombs I can see some advantages, however, I still feel that using the gun-site gives far better accuracy and reference points that simply using Kentucky Windage.
The advantage is being able to follow the target better. For shooting, it's just a different "site picture". So when I fight an A20 I try to stay below him as much as possible so he has a harder time tracking me. With F3 he doesn't have that problem and can see where Im going and can then easily maneuver for his site picture to get his shot.
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Its easier to fly the A20 from the cockpit then from F3 mode, and, other then HOing and the fact that they are bullet sponges, there is no reason to fear them.
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Ya might want to mention that to people who have fought cobia when hes in that thing.
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I agree with Grizz on this one. I didn't consider the Il2s F3 mode a game changer either, but it did force you do be a lot more careful when flying straight up the rectum.
Unfortunately, his tactics caught on and soon there was several Il2s doing the same maneuver. They looked like a school of dolphins (pod for you anal retentive types), and like anything else, if the community can't police itself, HTC will do it for us.
Ghi quit flying the IL2 after the change, it must have been a bigger game-changer than non-IL2-flying people can observe
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Ghi quit flying the IL2 after the change, it must have been a bigger game-changer than non-IL2-flying people can observe
i think the switch to fighter hanger had more impact then anything
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The thing that continues to amaze me is the amount of people who think that gunning in F3 actually gives you some huge advantage. I've tried to gun in F3, however, I had a problem. There was this big plane blocking or distorting my view of the enemy.
It is an advantage!, the 12 oclock shot is only marginaly more difficult in F3, every single other shot angle (which btw is most shots) is much improved in F3. If you drop F3 view for all planes with fwd firing guns, then they would cease to be used in such unrealistic fashion!
You certainly would put an end to the "Boston Strangler" :(
JUGgler
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why not just stop guns being able to be fired from F3 like lots have mentioned?
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why not just stop guns being able to be fired from F3 like lots have mentioned?
This would be fine, but wouldn't it be better if all the "inplane views" were from actual positions that the plane actually has? whatever view is chosen ie: rear gunner, top gunner, waist gunner etc should be adjustable just like "fighter views" and settable with F10. If your plane lacks a position, guess what you don't get to see from that position.
Although I use F3 and find it fun at times, using it to flop around in a JU88, Boston or A20 making everyone look silly is just gamey as hell. There is other ways that would be more realistic and less gamey.
The drop in IL2 kills proves just how gamey F3 view is, many said they never use F3 in the IL2, well the proof is in the puding and they have been exposed as "untruthers" :D
JUGgler
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This would be fine, but wouldn't it be better if all the "inplane views" were from actual positions that the plane actually has? whatever view is chosen ie: rear gunner, top gunner, waist gunner etc should be adjustable just like "fighter views" and settable with F10. If your plane lacks a position, guess what you don't get to see from that position.
The flaw I see with that is that when you leave a turret it might be in a position that effectively blocks the view. Ball turrets in particular seem to have limited visibility and if it were facing the wrong was when last you moved it, the view from the preset might simply be of the inside of the back armor plate of the ball. Normally I'd expect the turret would be in constant motion with the gunner looking around.
In addition, most hat systems on joystick's have trouble displaying more than half a globe's worth of views and on many bombers you'd need a full globe's worth.
I am also not sure how well that would work for people with TrackIR.
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hey hey ho ho f3 mode has got to go
I hope you won't complain next about how LVT's have the Armor of a Tiger Tank (oh wait few months ago) Your Yak-T got glancing blows on my LVT and you accused me of cheating.
reminds me of RedDevil who complains every 15 seconds of <insert reason to complain here>
/I do agree A20s need to lose F3 view, bomb****s would commit LawnDart like Ghi did when the Il-2 disappeared from base defense
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The flaw I see with that is that when you leave a turret it might be in a position that effectively blocks the view. Ball turrets in particular seem to have limited visibility and if it were facing the wrong was when last you moved it, the view from the preset might simply be of the inside of the back armor plate of the ball. Normally I'd expect the turret would be in constant motion with the gunner looking around.
In addition, most hat systems on joystick's have trouble displaying more than half a globe's worth of views and on many bombers you'd need a full globe's worth.
I am also not sure how well that would work for people with TrackIR.
With trakIR the view hat still functions I use both.
Moving to a turret obviously sets your 12 view with respect to the direction the turret is pointing. I think a system that allowed you preset hat views from different perspectives in the AC (that include gunner positions) from the cockpit would have to set the view reference of the ac and not the current position of the gun.
If you wanted to fire the gun you have to move to it and once there you may have a diferent set of views to those you have set using F10 from the cockpit.
If (from the cockpit) you want only the gunners view perspective (e.g when looking back, or back up, or back right etc etc) then you can flick around the ac using such preset perspectives as you have configured in the cockpit using F10 as JUGler indicates.
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the only reason to dogfight in an A20 is because the b-hangars are still up and the f-hangars are all down and you need to defend. I have yet to see an A20 actually up from a healthy base that is not there to kill GVs.
plus, dispite F3, its still a relativly easy kill even if it is a bullet sponge. . .
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the only reason to dogfight in an A20 is because the b-hangars are still up and the f-hangars are all down and you need to defend. I have yet to see an A20 actually up from a healthy base that is not there to kill GVs.
plus, dispite F3, its still a relativly easy kill even if it is a bullet sponge. . .
:noid
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The drop in IL2 kills proves just how gamey F3 view is, many said they never use F3 in the IL2, well the proof is in the puding and they have been exposed as "untruthers" :D
JUGgler
And I'm one that always used f3 in the il2. It was probably my favorite plane when it had f3. Now I hardly ever fly it. :cry As far as I'm concerned the plane is near worthless without f3, having the worst cockpit view of any attack plane in mid war.
I think I'd be willing to pay extra each month just have have f3 returned to the il2.
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I hope you won't complain next about how LVT's have the Armor of a Tiger Tank (oh wait few months ago) Your Yak-T got glancing blows on my LVT and you accused me of cheating.
reminds me of RedDevil who complains every 15 seconds of <insert reason to complain here>
/I do agree A20s need to lose F3 view, bombers would commit LawnDart like Ghi did when the Il-2 disappeared from base defense
maybe if we could fly f18's we could be as good as you
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And I'm one that always used f3 in the il2. It was probably my favorite plane when it had f3. Now I hardly ever fly it. :cry As far as I'm concerned the plane is near worthless without f3, having the worst cockpit view of any attack plane in mid war.
I think I'd be willing to pay extra each month just have have f3 returned to the il2.
I actually think removing F3 from the sturmovik was rash and premature, it only helps the vulchers with a slight help to GVs. To take it from one plane was not wise, to remove it from ALL planes flown in ways they traditionaly couldn't, would have been the correct "knee jerk reaction"
It is sad that the change made vulching easier and less risky, now there is nothing to cull some of the "overshooting" vulchtards when FHs are down. IMHO it was a poor choice to remove F3 from just one plane! The ONLY beneficiaries to the change are the "teenage crotch wetting vulchers" :rofl :neener:
Have a standard for ALL planes or have standards for none!!
JUGgler
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I actually think removing F3 from the sturmovik was rash and premature, it only helps the vulchers with a slight help to GVs. To take it from one plane was not wise, to remove it from ALL planes flown in ways they traditionaly couldn't, would have been the correct "knee jerk reaction"
It is sad that the change made vulching easier and less risky, now there is nothing to cull some of the "overshooting" vulchtards when FHs are down. IMHO it was a poor choice to remove F3 from just one plane! The ONLY beneficiaries to the change are the "teenage crotch wetting vulchers" :rofl :neener:
Have a standard for ALL planes or have standards for none!!
JUGgler
totally agree with you on this one. it was fun shooting ghi down :). he's using the a20 now, but seriously if you get shot down by one, then it's nobody's fault except your own. as the only way would be for the a20 to get you when you were really low and slow.
semp
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totally agree with you on this one. it was fun shooting ghi down :). he's using the a20 now, but seriously if you get shot down by one, then it's nobody's fault except your own. as the only way would be for the a20 to get you when you were really low and slow.
semp
The A-20 is the freaking Death Star compared to the IL2. But still the little Waaa-Waaa's got its F3 taken away anyways. :cry
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the only reason to dogfight in an A20 is because the b-hangars are still up and the f-hangars are all down and you need to defend. I have yet to see an A20 actually up from a healthy base that is not there to kill GVs.
plus, dispite F3, its still a relativly easy kill even if it is a bullet sponge. . .
You've never seen cobia38 fly the A-20 or a few years ago, Bullz. Both fly the A-20 exclusively 99% of the time as a fighter.
ack-ack
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The A-20 is the freaking Death Star compared to the IL2. But still the little Waaa-Waaa's got its F3 taken away anyways. :cry
No it's not. The only thing the A-20 has over the IL2 is maneuverability, like the tail turret on the IL2, the top turret on the A-20 is useless. As for guns...the IL2's forward firepower is far greater than the A-20s 6x .50 caliber machine guns. In terms of firepower, the A-20 is the Millennium Falcon to the IL2's Star Destroyer if you're gonna use Star Wars comparisons.
ack-ack
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You've never seen cobia38 fly the A-20 or a few years ago, Bullz. Both fly the A-20 exclusively 99% of the time as a fighter.
ack-ack
so one guy is good in the a20 and the whole fricking game needs to be recoaded because of him. even thought I dont even recall me fighting him anytime in the past 2 years.
semp
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so one guy is good in the a20 and the whole fricking game needs to be recoaded because of him.
I don't think using F3 has ever become an issue with cobia38 or Bullz, at least no one that I recall has ever accused them of abusing it.
even thought I dont even recall me fighting him anytime in the past 2 years.
semp
so?
ack-ack
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I hope you won't complain next about how Lt's have the Armor of a Tiger Tank (oh wait few months ago) Your Yakut got glancing blows on my LVT and you accused me of cheating.
reminds me of RedDevil who complains every 15 seconds of <insert reason to complain here>
/I do agree A20s need to lose F3 view, bombers would commit LawnDart like GI did when the IL-2 disappeared from base defense
Apologized for that both publicly and in a PM to you so I'll do it again. I apologize for the PM where I thought it was BS that a LVT Pilot killed me with its guns. If I'm wrong I don't mind saying I'm wrong and in that instance I was wrong. As far as the F3 mode goes though I feel I am right and it needs to go away. In MA and special events.
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For Dogfighting or Bombing in an A20, there is no way I can use the F3 mode, I can't see where I'm shooting, and can't eye my speed and other factors needed for a proper dogfight in the plane. I do use it for taking screenshots of buffs and reviewing bullet holes while refueling... (Call me a dweeb).
The A20 will be just as effective w/o F3 mode. It's a monster of a plane if you take a little patience to fly it. Quit complaining about F3 because it's a crutch that will keep you from advancing as a pilot. Instead, try learning to fly the A20, learn it's strengths and weaknesses, and learn to exploit these the next time you fight one. You might find a different outcome.
I fought Cobia the other night, he was A20, I was a Zeke, he had a ton of smack on me, and I managed to turn the tables and get him roped. He managed a ping on me and took an aileron, but in the end, he had to breakoff his attack or get smacked by others. 2 Months ago, Cobia would have eaten me alive... but I decided to learn what the A20 can do, rather than whine and moan that someone can use it better than me.
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For Dogfighting or Bombing in an A20, there is no way I can use the F3 mode, I can't see where I'm shooting, and can't eye my speed and other factors needed for a proper dogfight in the plane. I do use it for taking screenshots of buffs and reviewing bullet holes while refueling... (Call me a dweeb).
Call me a dweeb but I find f3 pretty much essential for flying planes with poor cockpit views, the il2 having been probably my favorite plane until they took f3 away. They're worthless for dogfighting and pretty much everything else without f3 because it's near impossible to track con airplanes after the initial merge.
In the real world, bomber pilots had a crew to look out for them. IL2 drivers had a rear gunner and, unlike the game plane, a pilot could move his head back and forth to view other directions.
I've recently taken the il2 up to see if I could get used to flying without f3. About the only thing I could do well with it was blast lvts, but it took me forever to find them.
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so people want the game changed because they know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy that can fly the a20 very well. even if the chances of fighting him are pretty much second to none.
semp
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I popped you twice while flying an A20 earlier today, although I got assists both times :furious. I don't use F3 mode. What I did use to get you both times was this little thing we like to call an High Yo-Yo.
If you guys didn't insist on dropping fighter hangars all the time, folks like me wouldn't have to make you look silly by killing you with A20s... :rofl
That said, I wouldn't care if F3 mode went away either. I just find it amusing that you feel you have to blame your failure on F3 mode.
nice one
:salute :salute
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No it's not. The only thing the A-20 has over the IL2 is maneuverability, like the tail turret on the IL2, the top turret on the A-20 is useless. As for guns...the IL2's forward firepower is far greater than the A-20s 6x .50 caliber machine guns. In terms of firepower, the A-20 is the Millennium Falcon to the IL2's Star Destroyer if you're gonna use Star Wars comparisons.
ack-ack
Check speed and climb rates along with manueverability. Then try looping both. I'd call the twin Yank 0.50s "unused" instead of "useless". Either way its better then a single 12.7 UB on an IL2s rear end. Ive shot planes down with the IL2s top turret MG. And if you need more then 8 0.50s in noseguns to shoot down an enemy you got problems. Its by far the better attacker/medium bomber if your intent is to engage enemy airplanes. Of course the IL2 is not even in the bomber hangar anymore, with F3, cause, cause, cause why ?
Cause its such an outstanding fighter plane? :lol
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The A20 will be just as effective w/o F3 mode.
I challenge that thinking! :t
All you have to do is compare the "air to air" kills of the IL2 "before and after" the change, you will find F3 matters greatly for any plane!
If HTC would disable F3 for all planes with fwd firing guns for 1 tour you'd see a sharp decline in their kills and use <-- this would prove the value of F3 IMHO
JUGgler
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The only thing I use F3 for is to look at the 3D models of my bombers as I do a long flight, so I'd miss it for that though
I also only use F3 for that reason. Now, I use it in the A20 and JU87 only for divebombing. So I dont think it needs to go.
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All you have to do is compare the "air to air" kills of the IL2 "before and after" the change, you will find F3 matters greatly for any plane!
JUGgler
NO F3 for IL-2, then no F3 for the A-20, It might of been "attack" but it doesn't need F3 view then.
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I challenge that thinking! :t
All you have to do is compare the "air to air" kills of the IL2 "before and after" the change, you will find F3 matters greatly for any plane!
If HTC would disable F3 for all planes with fwd firing guns for 1 tour you'd see a sharp decline in their kills and use <-- this would prove the value of F3 IMHO
JUGgler
your test would be flawed,you first have to move il2 back to bomber hanger,simply because when FH are porked the only 2 good choices are il2 and A20 for base defence.
who the hell is going to roll a il2 when you can roll hurricanes. then see if il2 kills go back up.
as for declines in A-20 kills with no f3, i,ll gladly take that challange,wont make a hill of beans in my kill #s
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I challenge that thinking! :t
All you have to do is compare the "air to air" kills of the IL2 "before and after" the change, you will find F3 matters greatly for any plane!
If HTC would disable F3 for all planes with fwd firing guns for 1 tour you'd see a sharp decline in their kills and use <-- this would prove the value of F3 IMHO
JUGgler
Lets not limit our selves to just forward firing aircraft that use f3 mode then shall we.
Lets do it for rearward firing as well. :aok
Especially since the AR-234B never had rear guns to begin with. :bolt:
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wil3r
Kind of getting tired of the personal attacks. I'm not a dweeb and I'm not a bad fighter pilot.
I'm not saying I'm a great fighter pilot but I can hold my own. I'm not blaming my getting shot down by a ac, on the f3 mode. I'm saying the A20 and ju88 both are very unrealistic in f3 mode. Your example of flying against cobia in a zeke vrs a a20 is a prime example of what I'm taliking about. Your a good fighter I've fought you and won some and lost some. :cheers: There is no way he should have even been able to put guns on you unless you overshot him and you say he had smash on ya so I can assume that didn't happen.
As far as how f3 Improves those AC its in the SA I don't think shooting from it is very practical but I've herd that there are some who do it well. When I first started this game I had a guy show me how to bomb from the f3 mode. Oh and the what are we going to use for base defense argument, when was the A20 ever used as base defense on a caped field in the real world?
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Finn, no personal attack intended. You're a great stick :cheers:. I just think that saying F3 mode is why someone is good is akin to the 'You fly an EZ mode plane' defense... If a pilot keeps finding excuses why someone beat them, instead of working on how they were beaten, they never improve.
Every plane I see in the air I'm thinking what it can and cannot do (usually), and basing my manuvers around gaining my advantage and playing to their disadvantages. The only plane this really doesn't work against for me is a SpitXVI, that plane does everything well so it's a bit more about observing the pilot and outflying him, than trying to get him to commit to something their plane can't do.
Always good fights Surrfinn, sorry if I offended :salute
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F3 improves both your overall 360% vision and it allows you to line up ground targets better, most of all small ones like GVs. Most of all with a poor roller like the IL2 In effect thts all it does. I heard tales of accusation saying some were shooting forward guns in F3 but I found that, at best, a rediculous tactic.
Then to make it worse they put the IL2 in the FH so now all you have to do is bomb 3 hangars to over run a base with GVs. A few fighters along will keep the Lancstukas down, or, since the Ord bunkers are so weak you can just bomb them to, or shoot them down. Game over.
When the IL2 was in the bomber hangar we still had a fighting chance to save a base. With F3 you had a chance to dodge fighters better and you could still kill GVs even without Ords.
Now? Its game over much faster to the horde. Tellya the truth when I see a base crippled to that point I just move on to another fight. At best all you'll end up is vulch bait to the fighters and GVs who have over ran the base. Thats what removing F3 from the IL2, and putting it into the FH has done.
Real shame. Its taken the game down a notch and all due to the Waaa-Waaa of the GV'ers.
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Real shame. Its taken the game down a notch and all due to the Waaa-Waaa of the GV'ers.
No it was 262'ers that started that campaign.
Due to losing one to GHI in his IL-2.
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lyric1 is correct, it was started by complaints of the Il-2's air-to-air efficacy.
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why does the IL-2 even have 20mm's?
was it because it was dogfighting, or because the russians thought a puny little 20mm would do serious damage to a tank like the 37mm's did..?
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Those 23mm had enough penetration to damage tanks from the rear and top. Keep in mind at the same time, the Germans didn't have super heavy tanks with sloped armor and 100mm+ effective armor, their tanks were still lightly armored. The 23mm AP shell went right through them.
AH didn't see the 37mm until a few patches ago.
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Those 23mm had enough penetration to damage tanks from the rear and top. Keep in mind at the same time, the Germans didn't have super heavy tanks with sloped armor and 100mm+ effective armor, their tanks were still lightly armored. The 23mm AP shell went right through them.
AH didn't see the 37mm until a few patches ago.
i was thinking that they would only penetrate the paper thin top armor, and not the back. but heck, i didnt know we just *somewhat* recently got the 37mm's if it was only a few versions back.
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Those 23mm had enough penetration to damage tanks from the rear and top. Keep in mind at the same time, the Germans didn't have super heavy tanks with sloped armor and 100mm+ effective armor, their tanks were still lightly armored. The 23mm AP shell went right through them.
And don't forget, on the actual battlefields of WW2 there were many many "soft" targets that needed destroying. It wasn't always about penetrating tank armor.
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Well of course, but if you want to look at it in a cynical way, those 7.9mm guns actually killed something/someone. Our AH's 7.9mm is just there to annoy and tickle.
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The 23mm VYa guns are quite capable of killing the Panzer IV H in AH. Not so much the other tanks in AH, but the Panzer IV H used to dominate the AH ground warfare.
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The 23mm VYa guns are quite capable of killing the Panzer IV H in AH. Not so much the other tanks in AH, but the Panzer IV H used to dominate the AH ground warfare.
im sure if you hit a m4 right on top of the turret it could kill it. seems as if the M4/T34-85 and panzer are the only widely used tanks here...
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scorpion I'm so dam drunk I cant even hit the keys on this response, but basiclcly if yr not old enough to vote then please don't try to have an opinion. kind of geting sick of your dumb post. You have a a habit of posting whole pages of BS just to move a topic away from where yr little small kid mind wants it to go. :t
I'm not yr mama boy so stop yr bs.
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scorpion I'm so dam drunk I cant even hit the keys on this response well but basiclcly if yr nit old enough to vote then please don't try to have an opinion
since your drunk, ill let it slide. but im allowed to have an opinion, even if im not old enough to vote. just ask anyone here and im sure they'd say the same.
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im allowed to have an opinion, even if im not old enough to vote.
No actually you aren't allowed to have an opinion. You actually have to earn an opinion which means you have to live a while and do something besides live of of Mommy and daddy's household you little freaking tard. But hey thanks for telling me other 14yr olds Will back yr lame as BS Up. Please STOP posting on my threads.
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No actually you aren't allowed to have an opinion. You actually have to earn an opinion which means you have to live a while and do something besides live of of Mommy and daddy's household you little freaking tard. But hey thanks for telling me other 14yr olds Will back yr lame as BS Up. Please STOP posting on my threads.
i think that once your sober your really going to regret that. trust me, boozing it then typing that up isnt going to get you far.
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Please STOP posting on my threads.
Guess you missed this part right? :O :t
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scorpion I'm so dam drunk
i guarantee you will make an ass out of yourself and then wind up looking stupid without even remembering it all the next day. im not bashing you or anything. just giving some advice...
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Guess you missed this part right? :O :t
actually all the threads belong to hitech.
semp
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I shouldn't drink and post.
you really shouldnt. but you do it anyways...why?
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Please STOP posting on my threads.
Well like most Teenagers I guess you have to be told again. PLEASE STOP POSTING ON MY THREADS.
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Well like most Teenagers I guess you have to be told again. PLEASE STOP POSTING ON MY THREADS.
read this. its the truth.
actually all the threads belong to hitech.
semp
they arent your threads there HTC's. they just allow you to make them/put whatever you feel like in them.
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child its getting late isn't your Mommy calling you by now? Men want to talk and you are getting in the way as usual
oh I'm a big boy now i can type coach :devil
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child its getting late isn't your Mommy calling you by now? Men want to talk and you are getting in the way as usual
still drunk? im going to guess that your response would be a yes...
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Snar Snarf!
....hey look, a dancing banana! :banana:
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Check speed and climb rates along with manueverability. Then try looping both. I'd call the twin Yank 0.50s "unused" instead of "useless". Either way its better then a single 12.7 UB on an IL2s rear end. Ive shot planes down with the IL2s top turret MG. And if you need more then 8 0.50s in noseguns to shoot down an enemy you got problems. Its by far the better attacker/medium bomber if your intent is to engage enemy airplanes. Of course the IL2 is not even in the bomber hangar anymore, with F3, cause, cause, cause why ?
Cause its such an outstanding fighter plane? :lol
My point wasn't about the speed or maneuverability of the A-20 over the IL2, it was to point out that your comparison of the firepower between the A-20G and the IL2 was incorrect. By claiming the A-20G was "Death Star" you are inferring that it has greater firepower than the IL2, which it doesn't. The foward firepower of the Il2 is far more powerful than that of the A-20G, in either IL2 load outs. So, the analogy that you used to compare the firepower between both planes was incorrect.
As for the turret in the A-20G, use it is useless which is why it's "under used". Because of the size of the tail on the Havoc, it's basically useless for rear defense and all one needs to do to avoid the top turret in the A-20G is to approach from a slightly lower angle in the dead six position. The turret can't deflect low enough to get a shot and if one knows how to properly engage bombers, the top turret isn't a threat at all when attacking from above. In a maneuvering fight, the turret is only good enough to provide a distraction for the bandit and as long as the fight does not turn into a Lufberry, the bandit can stay out of the cone of fire.
If you want to get technical, the IL2 was designed as a ground attack plane and not as a bomber. Which could be the reason why it's no longer able to be scored as a bomber. When I first started, I also seem to recall the same issue with the Bf110 being able to be scored as a bomber as well but was later changed to just fighter and attack.
So in short...IL2 firepower > A-20G firepower
ack-ack
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F3 improves both your overall 360% vision and it allows you to line up ground targets better, most of all small ones like GVs. Most of all with a poor roller like the IL2 In effect thts all it does. I heard tales of accusation saying some were shooting forward guns in F3 but I found that, at best, a rediculous tactic.
Only because you weren't very good at it. Just do a search of the forums and you'll see a series of films posted after HiTech asked for such films. The films show how incredibly easy it really is to successfully shoot in F3 view and the films made a very persuasive argument to get rid of F3 from the DA but that's an entirely different argument though related.
ack-ack
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Only because you weren't very good at it. Just do a search of the forums and you'll see a series of films posted after HiTech asked for such films. The films show how incredibly easy it really is to successfully shoot in F3 view and the films made a very persuasive argument to get rid of F3 from the DA but that's an entirely different argument though related.
ack-ack
I was going to post along the same lines.
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So in short...IL2 firepower > A-20G firepower
ack-ack
Not to mention you can't reach out and touch someone at 1.5K in an A20 like you can with the IL... Yes, just keep flying straight away from me... I'll never catch you (BUT MY BULLETS WILL!!!!)
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When I first started, I also seem to recall the same issue with the Bf110 being able to be scored as a bomber as well but was later changed to just fighter and attack.
ack-ack
The Bf110 was never scored as a bomber. When the Mosquito Mk VI was first added it spent a few days as a bomber before being moved to the fighter hangar.
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lyric1 is correct, it was started by complaints of the Il-2's air-to-air efficacy.
I know what the official reason was. But look thru the smoke and mirrors.
Both of you know very well the truth of the IL2s "Il-2's air-to-air efficacy". Whatever small success it had in the ATA role was due to its use in fighting the horde intent on vulching and HO'ing around its own home runway. Did you quake with fear when you encountered a F3 IL2 while in your Spit or P-38? The IL2 never even had any "Il-2's air-to-air efficacy" in the first place. Unless you were flying against it like a bonehead. And even if you were up against the Queen of F3 gunning why are you in front of of the guns of such a slow, poorly climbing, sloppy rolling, lousy accelerating, bomber in the first place ?
And no doubt these "films" were provided by the same ones who wanted to get rid of the F3 in the first place. Even stranger was the fact that someone who flew it as much as I did had such problems shooting in F3, even tho I only tried it offlinie Personally I'd rather have an A-20s, or a Mossies, guns if shooting at a fighter then an IL2s 2 cannons.
But also moving it to the FH? Thats another thing.Taking away F3 only hurt the plane. Putting it in the FH also hurt the game itself.
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F3 view is tied to whether the aircraft is a "bomber" or a "fighter" and the method to remove F3 was simply to move it from being a "bomber" to being a "fighter".
As to your other question, no, of course Il-2s didn't concern me. It is no match for any real fighter, or even fighter-bomber, in air-to-air.
My best ever air-to-air kill in an Il-2 was way back before it had the 37mm cannons. I was out GV hunting, from the cockpit only as I never used F3, when suddenly I am being hammered by cannon impacts. It goes on and on, but by Il-2 holds together, well, mostly together and then it is over. A Spitfire Mk IX screams over me and goes into a shallow climb away. I pull my battered Sturmovik up a bit and blow the Spitfire to pieces at about 600 yards.
Then I limped home. The Spit really did wreck me.
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I know what the official reason was. But look thru the smoke and mirrors.
Both of you know very well the truth of the IL2s "Il-2's air-to-air efficacy". Whatever small success it had in the ATA role was due to its use in fighting the horde intent on vulching and HO'ing around its own home runway. Did you quake with fear when you encountered a F3 IL2 while in your Spit or P-38? The IL2 never even had any "Il-2's air-to-air efficacy" in the first place. Unless you were flying against it like a bonehead. And even if you were up against the Queen of F3 gunning why are you in front of of the guns of such a slow, poorly climbing, sloppy rolling, lousy accelerating, bomber in the first place ?
And no doubt these "films" were provided by the same ones who wanted to get rid of the F3 in the first place. Even stranger was the fact that someone who flew it as much as I did had such problems shooting in F3, even tho I only tried it offlinie Personally I'd rather have an A-20s, or a Mossies, guns if shooting at a fighter then an IL2s 2 cannons.
But also moving it to the FH? Thats another thing.Taking away F3 only hurt the plane. Putting it in the FH also hurt the game itself.
This sounds very "past tense" is there a reason you choose not to fly it now? ;)
JUGgler
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this is the 2nd thread rich52 talks about F3 in the IL2 where I cant tell if he's for it or against it.
I still can kill a tank with it. I don't know what his problem is.
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this is the 2nd thread rich52 talks about F3 in the IL2 where I cant tell if he's for it or against it.
I still can kill a tank with it. I don't know what his problem is.
From what I gather, he was against it but I have a feeling his protests stems from he got used to the crutch that is F3 and can't live without it.
ack-ack
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I think my main whine re F3 is its use when bombing........... most commonly agin vehicles when low level bombing via dive or lobbing. Yeah the likes of the A20G and IL2 are/were enhanced ac v ac in dog fights. My experience in the Boston is that it is certainly easier making evasive manouvres in F3 than F1 and even if this does not make me the victor often my attacker is brought down by another simply because he could not get a quick kill on my Boston.
F3's global remote view gives far to great a level of feedback that a dodging pilot would actually enjoy IMO.
I have long held the view that there should be a separate "attack" clasification that introduces a raft of game play features for aircraft operating in a ground attack (Jabo) role this would include the elimination of F3 either totally or indeed when bombing or using any form of ordinance
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this is the 2nd thread rich52 talks about F3 in the IL2 where I cant tell if he's for it or against it.
I still can kill a tank with it. I don't know what his problem is.
I thought I made it plain in prior posts, and actually it was a lot more then two threads. Here, I'll make it simple.
1, I think the IL2 was picked out unfairly cause all the other attackers with one rear gunner were left with F3. This is my main complaint.
2, While the officially reason for it was cause F3 made it such a war winning air to air weapon :huh the real reason is it was all the "Waaa-Waaa my tank got killed" whines. With the new GVs introduced the crying reached a crescendo. :lol I get a kick out of that tho, the one about IL2 air superiority. GHI was the only one who was racking up a lot of air kills, tho he was being killed a lot too. Still one guy isnt reason enough to pick out one airplane and single it out and even in its F3 heyday this was basically a 1.00 k/d attacker with most of it being GVs anyway. All taking F3 away did was take players out of its cockpit.
3, I can still kill tanks in it to. The problem is without F3 you cant dodge fighters or flak 1/2 as well, and it was hard enough before, which is probably why the plane is being flown about 2/3'rd less then it was.
4, Lastly moving a bomber into the FH changed the games defense mechanics. And not for the better. Oh and 5'th ? The inside views of the IL2 sucks.
But if thats the way you all want it then take F3 away from anything with less then 4 engines. Just dont tell me its cause the IL2 was such a deadly F3 shooter.
Hey Ack-ack do you even play the game?
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Hey Ack-ack do you even play the game?
Yes i do, have been for over a decade.
ack-ack
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Yes i do, have been for over a decade.
ack-ack
Then whats your game name?
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Then whats your game name?
AKAK....
kind of says it in his avatar....he didnt put those 2 "AK"'s in there for fun you know...
but dont get close to his imposter "AckAck"
hes just....akward...
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What a great thread to return to after my vacation.
So much win.
The answer has been given by so many. No gunfire allowed while F3 is in use.
Seems pretty simple to me. Of course I don't write code either.
:banana: :bolt:
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I thought I made it plain in prior posts, and actually it was a lot more then two threads. Here, I'll make it simple.
1, I think the IL2 was picked out unfairly cause all the other attackers with one rear gunner were left with F3. This is my main complaint.
I don't know about it being "unfair", but I'd be all for taking F3 away from them too.
2, While the officially reason for it was cause F3 made it such a war winning air to air weapon :huh the real reason is it was all the "Waaa-Waaa my tank got killed" whines. With the new GVs introduced the crying reached a crescendo. :lol I get a kick out of that tho, the one about IL2 air superiority. GHI was the only one who was racking up a lot of air kills, tho he was being killed a lot too. Still one guy isnt reason enough to pick out one airplane and single it out and even in its F3 heyday this was basically a 1.00 k/d attacker with most of it being GVs anyway. All taking F3 away did was take players out of its cockpit.
I dont remember gv'ers whining all that much about getting gunned by the IL2, more about being bombed.
also, you say F3 isn't about air to air, but your next point you mention how you use it to dodge fighters. :headscratch:
3, I can still kill tanks in it to. The problem is without F3 you cant dodge fighters or flak 1/2 as well, and it was hard enough before, which is probably why the plane is being flown about 2/3'rd less then it was.
I try to stay away from fighters and flak.. It's meant to kill tanks which it still does quite well.
I'm guessing it's flown less because people liked using it as a fighter when the FH's were down. Which is probalby why it's K/D was above 1.00 for the first time, last I checked.. it's getting vulched less.
4, Lastly moving a bomber into the FH changed the games defense mechanics. And not for the better. Oh and 5'th ? The inside views of the IL2 sucks.
No real opinion on moving it to the FH, but I suspect if it moved back to BH and it still didn't have F3, it would be used just as much as before. good or not? I dont know.
The views are fine for spotting and killing tanks, IMO.
But if thats the way you all want it then take F3 away from anything with less then 4 engines. Just dont tell me its cause the IL2 was such a deadly F3 shooter.
I say take F3 away from everything. including 4 engine bombers.
So I think we agree after all! F3 was lame, HTC just needs to complete the change and get rid of it from all the other planes. :aok
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Then whats your game name?
I use my old AW handle/CPID as skorpion pointed out. Ack-Ack/AKAK, if you're that interested in looking up my stats.
ack-ack
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If you want to get technical, the IL2 was designed as a ground attack plane and not as a bomber.
If you want to get technical, attacking ground targets is exactly what a bomber does. This is in contrast to a fighter, whose primary role is to attack other aircraft. Since the IL-2 was most certainly not designed as an air-to-air fighter, its role was most definitely that of a bomber.
I'm guessing it's flown less because people liked using it as a fighter when the FH's were down.
Exactly, which is why certain people B'd and moaned about it. They didn't like getting face-shot when they were - erm - "capping" the field and would much rather have something more defenseless to shoot at.
F3 view or not, the IL2 is outclassed by every fighter in the game and severely outclassed by most. Hard to believe so many found it such a challenge.
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I think the real whining comes from the fact that idiots like to zoom an IL2 and think their speed will save them... I'm 1K out, he can't touch me... I'll go vertical... Then *POW* 37mm of love reach out and kiss him at 1.5k out and he's thinking, "ONLY WAY THIS HAPPENED WAS F3!!!!" not, "I'm an idiot who was entirely predictable and did the one thing you should never do against an IL2 (get in front of it's guns)"... :cry
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Am I the only one who can't bomb in a plane without bombsights, without using F3? I just can't do it. I might get lucky, but I just can't bomb without F3.
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Am I the only one who can't bomb in a plane without bombsights, without using F3? I just can't do it. I might get lucky, but I just can't bomb without F3.
I cant bomb with F3 mode. Never could.
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What a great thread to return to after my vacation.
So much win.
The answer has been given by so many. No gunfire allowed while F3 is in use.
Seems pretty simple to me. Of course I don't write code either.
:banana: :bolt:
Melvin, :salute
The problem is the fake SA availible in F3 mode. If you could fly in F3 mode you would get all the fake SA advantage F3 mode provides.
"No gunfire in F3 mode" is easily worked around by touching a button and jumping to the pilot seat in a millisecond to make the shot.
"NO gun fire in F3 mode" would only fix one problem. Yes some same high defection shots are easier from F3 mode, which may have some truth behind it, but that is not the real advantage of F3 mode in IL2s.
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Am I the only one who can't bomb in a plane without bombsights, without using F3? I just can't do it. I might get lucky, but I just can't bomb without F3.
Well I could never bomb or shoot while in F3. And I used to be in the top 3 or 5 with kills in it, tho mine were mostly GVs. I took fighters when they were stupid, and they often were. Shooting fighters at 1 to 1.5k is an awful stretch. You only have two cannon with slow ROF and thats a long, long shot. I wouldnt even waste ammo at that range. What I was good at was coming in at high angles on to tanks nd opening them up at 200 to 250 with a few shots. Now with far less SA, both of the air and of ground flak, I hardly ever fly it. We cant even use it as a last ditch defender when the FHs are down.
And as poor as a fighter stick as I am I almost never got shot down by an IL2, not even a F3 one. Any imbecile should have known that if you stay verticle against one the IL2 is helpless. It only had enough smash for one or two evasive moves and then it was flat and very slow, easy meat even for a noob.
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When you get used to putting rounds on target at 800-1K out on a little teeny GV snaking between trees, lobbing a couple rounds out in front of a big ol' airplane really isn't that difficult, especially when they do a lazy climb and don't bother to add any angles. I may have a few vids, I'll have to look.
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Guess that's the point isn't it. F3 has to go, we have herd from those who use it and say its easy to use for SA and flight control as well as bombing. Do we really need this xbox option in a game that is supposed to be somewhat historically accurate? I think not. Let the Da keep it take it out of the MA.