General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Arlo on August 05, 2020, 04:59:04 PM
Title: Beirut explosion
Post by: Arlo on August 05, 2020, 04:59:04 PM
Yesterday's huge explosion at the port of Beirut was devastating. There seems to be a growing debate as to whether this was an accident or attack. 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate. No matter the cause, I personally feel that the priority should be assistance before looking for culprits (if there are any). Referring to such as a 'bombing' and not an explosion is hasty, to me.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Busher on August 05, 2020, 06:05:57 PM
Not exactly the material that ought to be stored near populated areas. Remember in 1994 when Tim McVeigh constructed a bomb containing more than 5,000 pounds (2,300 kg) of ammonium nitrate fertilizer mixed with about 1,200 pounds (540 kg) of liquid nitromethane and 350 pounds (160 kg) of Tovex?
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Arlo on August 05, 2020, 06:19:40 PM
Not exactly the material that ought to be stored near populated areas. Remember in 1994 when Tim McVeigh constructed a bomb containing more than 5,000 pounds (2,300 kg) of ammonium nitrate fertilizer mixed with about 1,200 pounds (540 kg) of liquid nitromethane and 350 pounds (160 kg) of Tovex?
Even if stored near population, it should probably be kept in separated smaller quantities contained in vaults. I remember the tragedy in West, Texas. There were regulatory changes made (which may or may not still be in effect).
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Hajo on August 05, 2020, 08:26:36 PM
Ammonium Nitrate is a by product of Blast Furnace Coke making also. We used to be able to bring a shopping bag full of it home for free. It's a great fertilizer used in small amounts.
Some folks would bring it home and use it heavily to fertilize and two days later the complete lawn would burn out. Potent stuff.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Arlo on August 05, 2020, 08:44:43 PM
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Shuffler on August 05, 2020, 08:57:03 PM
Fertilizer...... same stuff that blew up in Texas City in 1947. The Grandcamp was loaded with 2300 tons of ammonium nitrate. A fire on board soon set that off. Difference in Texas was all the oil refineries.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Vulcan on August 05, 2020, 09:23:33 PM
The video of the church service is what really surprised me, its like a small earthquake before the shockwave hits.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: saggs on August 05, 2020, 10:13:20 PM
Fertilizer...... same stuff that blew up in Texas City in 1947. The Grandcamp was loaded with 2300 tons of ammonium nitrate. A fire on board soon set that off. Difference in Texas was all the oil refineries.
Same thing happened in West, Texas in 2013. Killed 15 firefighters.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Shuffler on August 05, 2020, 10:14:52 PM
Fertilizer...... same stuff that blew up in Texas City in 1947. The Grandcamp was loaded with 2300 tons of ammonium nitrate. A fire on board soon set that off. Difference in Texas was all the oil refineries.
that one killed all the firefighters in the city, I think.
semp
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2020, 03:17:20 AM
that one killed all the firefighters in the city, I think.
semp
Not all. I had a very good friend, since passed, that was on the TCVFD back then. He told me stories of using anything they could find to shield themselves from heat to get to survivors. Some real horror stories. Like a war zone.
I lived in Texas City for awhile too.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: guncrasher on August 06, 2020, 04:52:04 AM
Not all. I had a very good friend, since passed, that was on the TCVFD back then. He told me stories of using anything they could find to shield themselves from heat to get to survivors. Some real horror stories. Like a war zone.
I lived in Texas City for awhile too.
brave man :salute
semp
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Eagler on August 06, 2020, 06:41:16 AM
Or it was a bomb factory that popped
I am suspect about any offical story about anything from that part of the world
Eagler
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2020, 07:38:01 AM
Amazing what humans will do when the cart is in the ditch. He was a big easy going guy but it is not always the ones you expect. Audie Murphy always comes to mind.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: guncrasher on August 06, 2020, 08:15:22 AM
I am suspect about any offical story about anything from that part of the world
Eagler
bomb factory at a port, I would rather think it would have blown away years ago if this was true. just saying
semp
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Drano on August 06, 2020, 10:31:02 AM
Think I read it was cargo seized from a ship years ago and was being held in a warehouse ever since. If so I can't imagine that being the brightest move storing that stuff in that quantity in one place for starters! I wonder if it becomes less stable over time like other explosives do? Either way that was definitely the earth shattering kaboom Marvin the Martian was looking for.
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Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2020, 11:22:53 AM
Think I read it was cargo seized from a ship years ago and was being held in a warehouse ever since. If so I can't imagine that being the brightest move storing that stuff in that quantity in one place for starters! I wonder if it becomes less stable over time like other explosives do? Either way that was definitely the earth shattering kaboom Marvin the Martian was looking for.
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Yes.... 2700 tons of ammonium nitrate. The government there dawdled on moving it for all these years and now they paid the price. Looks like a fire that consumed a fireworks warehouse was able to spread. At least at this point. The military there is trying to press the blame elsewhere.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Drano on August 06, 2020, 11:25:47 AM
Reminds me of a line from one of my favorite movies, The Commitments.
We're a third world country. What can ya do?
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Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: LCADolby on August 06, 2020, 01:01:22 PM
Not exactly the material that ought to be stored near populated areas. Remember in 1994 when Tim McVeigh constructed a bomb containing more than 5,000 pounds (2,300 kg) of ammonium nitrate fertilizer mixed with about 1,200 pounds (540 kg) of liquid nitromethane and 350 pounds (160 kg) of Tovex?
Ammonium Nitrate is a by product of Blast Furnace Coke making also. We used to be able to bring a shopping bag full of it home for free. It's a great fertilizer used in small amounts.
Some folks would bring it home and use it heavily to fertilize and two days later the complete lawn would burn out. Potent stuff.
great nitrogen source. Plants can take up NH4 and NO3 forms of nitrogen. what better fertilizer than ammonium and nitrate together. Strait salt, you better water it into the ground! And yes, at the preferred rate.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: NatCigg on August 06, 2020, 08:37:53 PM
one fertilizer chemist told me, something like....' Its the nitrogen bond! it has so much energy! that's why plants and humans like it so much ' :airplane:
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 07, 2020, 11:54:12 AM
Way too much speculation right now.
Why would they Harbour 2700 tons of AN since 2013 in a fireworks factory? Wouldn't you sell it at least? Very odd.
Secondly, It happened the same day Kolomoisky offices were raided in Ohio and Miami.
Thirdly, China chemical plant burns 2 minutes after this explosion.
Fourthly, we have another 'fruit and vegetable' market in massive flames in the UAE.
Brussles world trade center building on fire yesterday.
I've also heard of fires in Iraq.
Lot of stuff going on right now. No one knows anything.
US generals say it was an attack. Was someone destroying evidence? Was someone taking out Hezbollah weapons depots?
Who knows... we probably won't know the real truth.
I've never seen an explosion like that before.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Maniac on August 07, 2020, 12:16:00 PM
US Generals are not saying it was an attack. The generals over there were trying to say that.
Oh gotcha.
I found a video earlier that showed a very similar mushroom cloud used in a Russian strike of syria. It looks very identical. It said it was a thermobaric bomb. Never heard of it and have 0 clue about it. Just passing on information.
Man i feel bad for those people in Beirut. Innocent people did not deserve this.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Spikes on August 07, 2020, 01:24:53 PM
I found a video earlier that showed a very similar mushroom cloud used in a Russian strike of syria. It looks very identical. It said it was a thermobaric bomb. Never heard of it and have 0 clue about it. Just passing on information.
Man i feel bad for those people in Beirut. Innocent people did not deserve this.
To be fair the above wasn't 100% correct either. Trump stated that US Generals believed it was an attack, so make of that what you will.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Maniac on August 07, 2020, 01:26:29 PM
not an expert but pick any date and there is multiple buildings on fire all over the world.
but what is srange is that there is a kind of hush all over the world. that is kind of a drag. i guess Ezekiel 25:17 is becoming a reality.
semp
I'm not an expert either, but the timing is fishy. I am just passing along info I hear about. IMO, they are keeping it hush hush because they dont want people to know what was really going on and Lebannon is showing face.
There are pics of Netanyahu showing a slide show to a large council of the Beirut port that some shady stuff was going on. I'm not saying it was Isreal, there is no proof. Just saying they knew something was going on there.
I doubt we will ever know the true story. To me it looked like a bomb though.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Shuffler on August 07, 2020, 04:48:28 PM
I'm not an expert either, but the timing is fishy. I am just passing along info I hear about. IMO, they are keeping it hush hush because they dont want people to know what was really going on and Lebannon is showing face.
There are pics of Netanyahu showing a slide show to a large council of the Beirut port that some shady stuff was going on. I'm not saying it was Isreal, there is no proof. Just saying they knew something was going on there.
I doubt we will ever know the true story. To me it looked like a bomb though.
I saw three fish jump just minutes before this blast took place. That is fishy.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: guncrasher on August 07, 2020, 04:52:16 PM
why can't it be just an accidental explosion? i was showing my wife a map of Lebanon two weeks ago. am i under suspicion too.
the fact that people aren't saying anything could be because they don't know anything not because they're trying to keep it on the downlow.
the fact that they kept that many tons of fertilizer is proof of only one thing, irresponsibility. or you could create a conspiracy theory that they kept it for years so another country could blow it up.
which is more believable?
semp
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 07, 2020, 06:00:33 PM
why can't it be just an accidental explosion? i was showing my wife a map of Lebanon two weeks ago. am i under suspicion too.
the fact that people aren't saying anything could be because they don't know anything not because they're trying to keep it on the downlow.
the fact that they kept that many tons of fertilizer is proof of only one thing, irresponsibility. or you could create a conspiracy theory that they kept it for years so another country could blow it up.
which is more believable?
semp
Negligence is almost never an accident, especially with 2700 tons of AN in a 'fireworks' factory? Cmon.... sounds like a poor excuse to me.
They would have sold all of that AN anyway. I think its just an excuse. There is literally 0 reasons why that AN would be stored like that and never used or sold since 2013.
I'll give you the benefit and say it could have been an accident. Why would they be so negligent with AN knowing full well the consequences of such chemicals and what it could do to their city?
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: LCADolby on August 07, 2020, 06:07:45 PM
a guy was arrested because he had 250k of illegal fireworks in his garage for the 4th of July. it could have leveled a city block.
people are stupid, it's that simple.
semp
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Drano on August 07, 2020, 06:39:59 PM
There was a guy in SE PA that did exactly that not long ago and blew himself and his dog up pretty good. Fortunately he lived on a fair piece of ground so it only wrecked the two semi trailers he had it in and his barn. Negligence happens. Or as one of my co-workers used to say.... "stupidity, Pat!"
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Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 07, 2020, 06:47:59 PM
My point is that generally people know full well of the consequences of being negligent which is why they lose in court all of the time. An 'accident' that is a symptom of negligence means that it happened due to the negligence which means its hardly an accident at all given that you purposely allowed the negligence to happen.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Arlo on August 07, 2020, 07:01:39 PM
My point is that generally people know full well of the consequences of being negligent which is why they lose in court all of the time. An 'accident' that is a symptom of negligence means that it happened due to the negligence which means its hardly an accident at all given that you purposely allowed the negligence to happen.
They don't lose in court because negligence is always a purposeful act. They lose in court because they were proven to have failed in a legal responsibility. An accident does not absolve one of responsibility but it doesn't mean an accident is anything other than. Unless you live in a conspiracy reliant 'reality.'
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: guncrasher on August 07, 2020, 07:25:57 PM
having so much fertilizer in a place for years is negligent, fertilizer blowing up was an accident. if neither accident or neglect was there. there would have been no explosion. it's that simple.
semp
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 07, 2020, 07:41:09 PM
They don't lose in court because negligence is always a purposeful act. They lose in court because they were proven to have failed in a legal responsibility. An accident does not absolve one of responsibility but it doesn't mean an accident is anything other than. Unless you live in a conspiracy reliant 'reality.'
I did misstate that all negligence is purposeful. Sometimes is it not. That's why they came up with the term gross negligence.
having so much fertilizer in a place for years is negligent, fertilizer blowing up was an accident. if neither accident or neglect was there. there would have been no explosion. it's that simple.
semp
I still think they are using this as a cover, but that is just my opinion because I don't trust these people. Its hard for me to understand why it wouldn't have been sold or used for 6 years just sitting around. Unfortunately, it cost them dearly and I hope to see some accountability.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Arlo on August 07, 2020, 07:49:56 PM
I did misstate that all negligence is purposeful. Sometimes is it not. That's why they came up with the term gross negligence.
Which still does not make the accident less than. There are and will continue to be those that will look for this to be a terrorist act when it likely isn't. Why? Excuse for war.
Carry on.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: guncrasher on August 07, 2020, 07:52:31 PM
OK then for what purpose to blow up the city?
don't say i don't know.
semp
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 07, 2020, 08:09:36 PM
Not exactly the material that ought to be stored near populated areas.
Several people in this thread have made similar comments. I read a report where the port authorities have been trying for seven years to get that stuff moved out of that warehouse. I haven't seen anything explaining exactly why it was never moved. But there were some who desperately wanted it out of there.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Drano on August 07, 2020, 08:34:05 PM
Well..... They got it out of there!
Too soon I know but ya kinda put that one on a tee
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Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: NatCigg on August 07, 2020, 09:00:22 PM
i read the AN was in a ship.? and the fireworks factory was next to it?
Is there a solid story we can develop the scenario with?
how does a loose mortar ignite a large vat of AN?
Anyone know the critical state necessary for this explosion to happen?
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: NatCigg on August 07, 2020, 09:01:45 PM
Not exactly the material that ought to be stored near populated areas. Remember in 1994 when Tim McVeigh constructed a bomb containing more than 5,000 pounds (2,300 kg) of ammonium nitrate fertilizer mixed with about 1,200 pounds (540 kg) of liquid nitromethane and 350 pounds (160 kg) of Tovex?
:headscratch:
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Shuffler on August 07, 2020, 10:52:43 PM
i read the AN was in a ship.? and the fireworks factory was next to it?
Is there a solid story we can develop the scenario with?
how does a loose mortar ignite a large vat of AN?
Anyone know the critical state necessary for this explosion to happen?
Originally it was all on a Russian vessel that had issues and went broke in Port. The ship was emptied into a warehouse at the port and the ship eventually moved. The product had been stored in a warehouse there for years. There was actually some work being done on a gate. They were concerned about thieves stealing some of the product.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 07, 2020, 11:13:35 PM
Originally it was all on a Russian vessel that had issues and went broke in Port. The ship was emptied into a warehouse at the port and the ship eventually moved. The product had been stored in a warehouse there for years. There was actually some work being done on a gate. They were concerned about thieves stealing some of the product.
I watched a video from bomb experts and a guy who made bombs in the military. They have come to the conclusion that it was infact AN that made the huge explosion. There is still much speculation, and authorities haven't rulled out external forces. I also read that they were working on a hole that theives were stealing from, however, it was just a comment and not a real source. Still think there was a lot more going on than we are being led to believe.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: guncrasher on August 07, 2020, 11:33:59 PM
I watched a video from bomb experts and a guy who made bombs in the military. They have come to the conclusion that it was infact AN that made the huge explosion. There is still much speculation, and authorities haven't rulled out external forces. I also read that they were working on a hole that theives were stealing from, however, it was just a comment and not a real source. Still think there was a lot more going on than we are being led to believe.
really the fact that they had tons of ammonium nitrate makes it an ammonium nitrate explosion? and they came to that conclusion based on a video posted on the internet? damn that is good research. would it have more believable like a guy who says I was close to the explosion and it was c4, I know what it smells like and know what it tastes like, used it many times before.
made bombs in the military? what the hell does that even mean? they give you something that blows up, attach something that makes it blow up, is that what he made? cause then everybody in the military makes bombs.
semp
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 08, 2020, 12:36:29 AM
really the fact that they had tons of ammonium nitrate makes it an ammonium nitrate explosion? and they came to that conclusion based on a video posted on the internet? damn that is good research. would it have more believable like a guy who says I was close to the explosion and it was c4, I know what it smells like and know what it tastes like, used it many times before.
made bombs in the military? what the hell does that even mean? they give you something that blows up, attach something that makes it blow up, is that what he made? cause then everybody in the military makes bombs.
semp
Their channel appeared to be solid. Was a nice presentation actually. I have also seen videos of a missle hitting it. Haven't confirmed if those are fake. Jury is still out for me.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: MiloMorai on August 08, 2020, 03:19:01 AM
Their channel appeared to be solid. Was a nice presentation actually. I have also seen videos of a missle hitting it. Haven't confirmed if those are fake. Jury is still out for me.
You mean the bird, not missile.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: guncrasher on August 08, 2020, 03:55:19 AM
Their channel appeared to be solid. Was a nice presentation actually. I have also seen videos of a missle hitting it. Haven't confirmed if those are fake. Jury is still out for me.
let this fact sink it. lebanon has basically been at war for years, if they had proof of a missile hitting it they would have said it right away, the fact that they dont blame israel should have also been proof to you. even hamas says it was an accident and they would be the first to point fingers are israel.
dude watch "loose change" a discredited video about 911. it seems very convincing. all channels on youtube appear solid except for 1 fact no evidence, they exist only to make money for those who created it. I could make a video arguing that trumps middle toe is longer than his big toe and ask for money to help support me. but I have morals. all conspiracy theory channels are only there for 1 thing, to make money for those who created them. either thru direct contributions or ads. there's even a chanel that makes lots of money by arguing that water has chemicals in it that makes rainbow appear when using a water hose and get the right amount of sunlight. they claim it started in the 80's and 90's. I made rainbows with a water hose when I was a kid in the 70's.
had a friend that used to say collodial silver kills corona virus. she would make lots of money selling it. guess what, she died of corona virus.
semp
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: LCADolby on August 08, 2020, 06:18:24 AM
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: icepac on August 11, 2020, 12:48:13 PM
Physics challenged people are forgetting that the explosion of the Ammonium nitrate likely blew the grain in the silos adjacent into a perfectly combustible cloud of powder.
That was a huge multiplier of strength.
Who needs diesel fuel or oil when you have grain dust?
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Eagler on August 11, 2020, 02:44:30 PM
Looks like it sparked a bout of civil unrest there with leaders running for the hills and nonpeaceful protests/ riots in the streets
Eagler
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 11, 2020, 02:54:15 PM
Physics challenged people are forgetting that the explosion of the Ammonium nitrate likely blew the grain in the silos adjacent into a perfectly combustible cloud of powder.
That was a huge multiplier of strength.
Who needs diesel fuel or oil when you have grain dust?
True... anything fine enough is a fuel.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Vulcan on August 11, 2020, 06:41:40 PM
Physics challenged people are forgetting that the explosion of the Ammonium nitrate likely blew the grain in the silos adjacent into a perfectly combustible cloud of powder.
That was a huge multiplier of strength.
Who needs diesel fuel or oil when you have grain dust?
There is a lot of grain in front of the silos.
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: avionix on August 12, 2020, 07:13:41 AM
Physics challenged people are forgetting that the explosion of the Ammonium nitrate likely blew the grain in the silos adjacent into a perfectly combustible cloud of powder.
That was a huge multiplier of strength.
Who needs diesel fuel or oil when you have grain dust?
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: icepac on August 12, 2020, 12:47:42 PM
Certainly not near the amount that was in them at the time. It was Lebanon's national reserve of grain.
Sure a lot on the ground, (https://themoneymanifesto.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/beirut-explosion-red-cross-warns-number-of-deaths-from-tragedy-set-to-rise-every-hour.jpg)
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Eagler on August 14, 2020, 06:12:20 AM
Why now?
How long has it been sitting there?
Who knew about it and knew what would happened if it exploded?
Eagler
Title: Re: Beirut explosion
Post by: Brooke on August 14, 2020, 03:21:31 PM