Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: 1K3 on February 20, 2007, 12:02:59 PM
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yummy:)
(http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/538_t.jpg)
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Interesting find! Would go well with the Ki84 with the blue arrow on the tail.
Come to think of it, we need more aircraft with large arrows on the sides!
Bring on the He163s! (er, sorry, that's for another post)
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russia and japan seem to be facinated with big bright arrows
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I think the soviet arrows are more like lightning bolts, as hey have the kink in the shaft most of the time.
Not that I'm complaining! Just pointing it out.
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my god that would be sweet
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Seen pics of it without the lightning flash, so I would need proof it actually carried it.
Bit sceptical.
(http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Grinberg/spit5/t_orig_spit5vvs.jpg)
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Kev, that's got the lightning on it. I can see it in the pic you postd.
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kev looking closely at your photo could that be a faded arrow on the side it looks like it to me
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It's faint, but that could just be the B&W photography, or fading over time. It's not 100% but it closely matches the color profile in angle and position, to me.
EDIT: I'm extrapolating under the "538" based on where the zig stops and where the stripe is behind the star. I can't see this too well, but again it could be faded, or the arrow could have been painted over here, or maybe the photo just didn't pick the colors up too well.
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Kev needs glasses?;)
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Lol.
Sorry I just can't see it.
I think the profile artist has taken some picture age blemishes and turned them into a lightning bolt.
How do you explain the same shade of grey that goes almost vertically over the rear of the upper engine cowling?
Noted VVS modeller doesn't even show it with a lightning bolt -
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Supermarine/Spitfire/MkV/Grinberg/index.php
On another note -"White 78" was an LF IXe, so it should be allowed on the XVI.
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A few models of it I found on the net:
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Grinberg/spit5/index.html
http://menatezz.sakura.ne.jp/sbm/vvs-spit5/s5-01.jpg
It has been modelled without the arrow, but it seems its hard to nail down a definitive scheme from a single b/w photo.
Either version would be cool.
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Maybe folks just didn't see the arrow, you didn't :)
I think there was an arrow, but I think there was more as well. I think there was something over the cowling, but maybe this was independent of the arrow? I'm guessing here. Without larger images I can't tell. The lines are too consistent to simply be blemishes on the film/photo. I think they're on the craft itself, but the film/photo just isn't up to showing it properly.
You could argue either way for it, and never be wrong.
So, in an either/or situation, I'd take the one with the nice eye-catching arrow!
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Yes, the arrow says "bullets go here" :)
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Maybe Dan can help out with this.
One thing - It certaily is 'striking' ;)
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Any chance you could try it more yellow than sky blue, like in the color profile? Who knows if it's right, but it'd make me drool for sure
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zomg i'm droooling
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Originally posted by Krusty
Any chance you could try it more yellow than sky blue, like in the color profile? Who knows if it's right, but it'd make me drool for sure
It's probably the way the light is hitting it, it's actually Duck Egg Green, which seems to be a perfect match for the profile color.
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I'll have a Pavlov to go, please, thank you.
(*drooooooool*)
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This is what White 78 (LF IXe) looks like on the XVI -
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hmmm i dunno kev it just doesnt look right.
Its like LGAYS have invaded an untouched beautiful British creation.
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Unless you have pictures to the contrary then I would assume that there are no stars on the upper wing surfaces.
I realise that in the picture from the article "spitfires over the Kuban" there is a faded star on the upper wing surface of the first spit.
I believe this has been put on by Brits who are "preparing the Spits for take over by the VVS"
Faded probably because this star erroniously placed has had a wash coat applied over it.
The VVS did not put Stars on the upper wings of their fighters from 42 onwards and would not have preserved any stars on aircraft so delivered.
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http://www.entertainmentearth.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CBAA31927#LargeImage
Corgis version of the a/c with no upper stars, for what its worth.
Ya, it could be many modellers apply the upper stars erroneously, and then somebody else sees the 1st modeller do it, and so they apply them too...
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I doubt the VVS would use yellow leading edges on the wings either............
Lightening bolts were very common within VVS regiments and divisions.
303 IAD flying over Prussia and Northern Poland in late 44 early 45 required all its regiments to use them.
just as we see the Normandy invasion wing bands on Allied AC we can refer to these arrows as the 303 IAD "Bagration" lightening bolts
Hence you will see a large crop of such air craft P39's La5FN's La7's Yak 9s and Yak 3s (including the NN Yak 3s) all with this 303IAD identifier.
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On the spit16 with stars above the wings, how "worn" or white-washed do you think the stars should be? They're quite eye-catching, and it would be a shame to reduce them to 5% or something where you can barely see them.
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Ya, I dont think they had yellow edges either, that was an RAF day fighter code.
On page 73 of "Spit V Aces" (Osprey) it shows a b/w photo of Spit Vbs in Iran in 1943 being handed over to the VVS, they have no yellow leading edges. Unfortunately, they photo does not show the upper wings, but I did find another source that stated the VVS would "paint over upper markings with matching colors" on lend lease a/c, so it seems they made sure the upper stars were either painted out or left off.
*My vote would be for "538" with the lightning bolt, no upper stars and the leading edges with no yellow*. :aok
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I've seen a good photo of a Soviet Spit IX with the bolt down the side, but I can't see it on the image of 538.
Heres another photo that goes with the one in the Osprey book showing the stars on the wings.
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Different angle of that bird.
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Interesting read on the wreck of a Soviet Spit LFIX that is waiting it's turn to come back to life at Duxford. Note the comments on original RAF paint and notice on the remains of the wing where the roundell was painted out.
http://www.fighter-collection.com/pages/aircraft/spit_ix_2/index.php
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Someone else's profile attempt. No lightning bolt.
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Looks like there is IS a photo clearly showing red stars on the upper surfaces of a Spit Vb going to the VVS in Iran ("Did the USSR use Spits" thread in the A and V forrm), but the debate would be wether they were kept on or not I guess...
No yellow leading edges tho, that is clearly indicated in the photo, which is very sharp and clear.
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/index.htm
Thx to Bruno for looking it up.
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Look at that pic more closely.
You'll see a dark area from the stbd nav light running along the leading edge.
Some of the older films types as they age the 'colors' (yes I know it's black and white) just go plain wierd.
Especially true of grey values associated with yellow.
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Kev's right. It's there. The stars look a little faded but it seems like the yellow wasn't white-washed.
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I can see it but it seems like its painted over, but like you say, could be just the b/w photo.
In any case any version of "538" would be a nice addition :aok
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VVS Museum birds after the GPW did have Stars added to the upper wing surfaces..infact they were often re painted in "heroic" colours that they never saw combat in.
The La7 at Monino even now shows the stars on the upper surfaces that it never had. It was this practice that led modellers all over the world adding upper wing stars to ac that never used them.
http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Riabsev/2243.htm
Dan the Spit IX pic you show seems to be at a museum............is it? 2nd reason I ask is the style of the numbering which was not typical.
Also is that a direction finding radar loop on the back of that Spit IX? (Post GPW in Russia I have an La7 picture with a similar loop that was a museum item after the war.)
Re the Spit in the article "Spitfires over the Kuban" what nationality are the engineers working on the air craft......they look to be dressed in std RAF desert garb to me.
Abadan was an US/UK aircraft assembly plant until late 43 when it became a delivery point for aircraft assembled in Basra.
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/persian/chapter13.htm
Also note that the Stars are on but not the air craft or unit code. From this I would surmise that these stars have been added (in this case) by Brits.
I consider that Dans Picture is possibly of a Spit IX "dressed for display" not with its normal camo and markings.
I would not be infatic about this point............... I would just suggest that when in doubt do NOT add stars to the upper wing surfaces
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Originally posted by Tilt
Re the Spit in the article "Spitfires over the Kuban" what nationality are the engineers working on the air craft......they look to be dressed in std RAF desert garb to me.
Also note that the Stars are on but not the air craft or unit code. From this I would surmise that these stars have been added (in this case) by Brits.
They were Brits.
Photograph was taken in Iran while they were being prepped for delivery to Russsia.
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Tilt, the image of the Spit V with the loop antenna is supposadly from a display of Soviet Wartime equipment, sometime after 1943. So you are probably right about the markings.
The loop antenna was added after the Soviets got the Spit for what it's worth.
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I think Kevs Spit V skin looks superb
For me I would layer some semi transparant camo (greyed over the original roundals )over the wing to fade out the upper wing star and then dirty up the leading wing band with a grey type camo.
I have no data regarding the validity of the arrow one way or another.......
Its not a typical lightening bolt as per 303IAD but stuff was often put on the sides of VVS ac by the pilot or his ground crew...some times slogans some times personal emblems.
The Guards emblem on the tail is because the ac is part of a Guards regiment (57 GIAP) the only thing unusual is that it is on the tail and not forward of the cockpit where it would normally be placed.
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I was wondering about that. Why is it on the tail?
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Originally posted by Krusty
I was wondering about that. Why is it on the tail?
I can only assume its because
a) the brits forgot to put a star on the tail of the spits so 57 GIAP used the free space for their guards emblem
b) the panel joints forward of the spits cockpit were not condusive to placing the large guards emblem there
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I skinned this one quite a while ago. I had never seen the arrows before, though and did it without.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/979_1155931038_vvsspit7.jpg)
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Did you never submit it?
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I think I did in AH1, but I made it for AHII and don't recall ever hearing back about it. I dont have a subscription so theres no way I can check it. I may not have even submitted it, it has been a while.