Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: 10Bears on December 15, 2003, 02:53:36 PM
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I haven’t been visiting the boards very much lately so if this has been discussed, please accept my apologies.
Noticed they were running the Okinawa setup this week so I got all hopped up to take a Choggie up an’ give those nasty Ki-67s some what for.. Huh... no F4U-1C.. OK.. well maybe an oversight by the setup guy. Alright fine, the next best plane to knock down those bombers would be the P-38L in which there were hundreds in the Okinawa theater of operations.. Nope nadda.. not even as a perked ride.
I suppose my question.. if I may be so bold.. is why would the CT setup folk.. exclude two major players of that battle?.. I assume the answer would be a fairness issue.. If that’s the case, are you sure Okinawa is the right battle to simulate? On account of Japan by June ’45 was just about on their last can of beans.
Haven’t checked the stats this week but from casual observation of text buffer, Japanese are landing more kills... I may be wrong but this is my perception. I do know one thing.. Put me in the funky white zeke.. verses a Chog.. (except for Shane and a few others) in a 1vs1 fight... I would win it. This plane mostly used for knocking down Peggies not for basic dogfight.. (too heavy)
If the C-hog can’t be used for the battle of Okinawa... What battle could it be used for?
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The P38 was not actualy deployed in the battle of Okinawa.
The C-hog was, but it is left out as I have said before everytime I have ran this set up:), because of balance constraints, this is a judgment call and like many such deschions not always a popular one. The C hog was in action at Okinawa and did conduct a few raids on Japan after this time before the war ended.
While this is at the very end of the war, Japan was still capable of puting up quiet a battle in the Air, unlike many CT set up's we run whear one side realy dident have much of an Air Presence this is certainly not the case hear. A stagering number of ships were damaged and sunk at Okinawa from both conventinal and Kamakise strikes, aprox. 2,000 Japanese aircraft took part in operations around Okinawa during the battle their.
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Originally posted by 10Bears
I haven’t been visiting the boards very much lately so if this has been discussed, please accept my apologies.
All eyes turned to the man in the center of the room.
The piano stopped playing.
The bartender softly felt under the bar, trying to locate his shotgun.
Somewhere, a dog barked...
- oldman
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LOL Oldman...
that about sums up what I was thinking when I started reading this thread. :D
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LOL:)
TY Oldman that was very good:)
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I told you 10Bears. Welcome to "Bradylogic"
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Oh I see the other threads now..
All I know I was flyin the other day an’ keep seeing IJAF flyers landing their kills. Americans keep getting whacked. I don’t have much of a problem with zekes and nikis but those Ki-67s boy ol boy you need to break out the BIG GUNS..
The Japanese were even outnumbered 2:1 so, if your going for gameplay balance, then you oughta add the C-hog. Least one night.. check the stats the day before.. enable the Chog one night only.. advertise in the general forum etc.. I bet you have a big turnout.
At least answer me this:. If the C-hog is inappropriate during the battle of Okinawa.. when is it appropriate?
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It would be inaproparte for me to comment on when or whear it would be used in the CT since this is not entirely my deschion alone to make, you may see it in the future in a set up.
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Funny Oldman...
I think this is the point where I say...
Brady you stubborn obstinate clueless pain in my butt logic lacking numbskull give the freakin Allies the CHog so they too can HO with 20mm planes!:aok
Now step outside so I can shoot u in the lips with my N1K!
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At least answer me this:. If the C-hog is inappropriate during the battle of Okinawa.. when is it appropriate?
Is the N1K2-J appropriate whe 95% of the players are flying it?
What we are all missing here is the fact that when flying the F4U, in order to RTB you must fly a long way to the fight, fly smart and fly a long way back home...if you dont, you will still see...."prettythangwhip landed 7 kills in a N1K2-J of the Ubber IJA" I keep landing multiple kills in the F4Us but over half have been minus a rudder :D
I am beginning to dislike BradyLogic...sounds axis bias to me...OMG did I just say the bias word? :aok
Whats o funny is that when I first started flying this sim (27th Sentai) we were not allowed to have the N1K2-J because "they" said it was not ballanced....al of a sudden it is?
Brady must have some dirty pics of HTC and his girlfriend. I smell blackmail :eek:
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Oh forgot something... screw the Hogs... grab a Hellcat and fly smart.
My best landed sorties have been in Hellcats 7 kills landed on Friday, 6 kills today.
Best I've done in IJ aircraft are 5 in a Zeke.
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well jazz you sarcastic pig...;) ..some of us just dont like the HellKitty! I want to fly the damnnn C-Hog!
IN the CT "Balance" means....an endless stream of green dots meeting with an endless stream of red dots mixing it up in the middle untill everyone is dead...reups and does it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and :aok
NOT MY IDEA OF THE DEFFINITION OF "COMBAT"
OMG IS THIS THE COMBAT ARENA? GO Figure!
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Brady
Y'know, I think Vought F4U-1C and F4U-4 can wait until Aces High 2.0 fully release and then you probably would added F4U-1C and F4U-4 on Okinawa Map setup in the future. I hope you agree about this.
Rafe35
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Originally posted by LtMagee
well jazz you sarcastic pig...some of us just dont like the HellKitty! I want to fly the damnnn C-Hog!
IN the CT "Balance" means....an endless stream of green dots meeting with an endless stream of red dots mixing it up in the middle untill everyone is dead...reups and does it
NOT MY IDEA OF THE DEFFINITION OF "COMBAT"
OMG IS THIS THE COMBAT ARENA? GO Figure!
Penalty for lack of memory! Um remember how like I keep harrassing Brady to put the CHog in?
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Originally posted by Slash27
I told you 10Bears. Welcome to "Bradylogic"
Bradylogic...The F4-us have xxx Speed advantage...So IJN will get the best gun package...NO wait in BOF 110s had speed advantage AND best guns.....:rolleyes: :eek:
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Ya actually that whole 110C-4 thing in BoF wuz kinda puzzling that way wuzn't it? I guess it was fair cuz once you got a 110 slowed down and had an E advantage it was just so much dog food.
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some of us just dont like the HellKitty!
whoopee pagon commie:mad:
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IJN is no match for F4U-4 :D
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lol slash.
and oh jazz, I forgot to put one den der smillies after the word pig, my bad;)
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i understand the P38L whine
but why do you people need the chog so bad 6 50 cals can rip a nik into nothing if given a shot
the chog is almost the same as the other hogs just those 4 20mms which are not needed for such light aircraft like the nik and zero
but well the chog realy turn the tide of the combat theater and give the US players power over the japan players
well im sure about this most people iv seen that fly for the US come in a hellcat get above the niks then they blow all there E to get 1 kill or nothing at all and then the rest of nik's well eat him alive
the nik does so well because it is not a forgiving enemy you cant just make mistakes when fighting them
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Originally posted by simshell
i understand the P38L whine
but why do you people need the chog so bad 6 50 cals can rip a nik into nothing if given a shot
the chog is almost the same as the other hogs just those 4 20mms which are not needed for such light aircraft like the nik and zero
but well the chog realy turn the tide of the combat theater and give the US players power over the japan players
well im sure about this most people iv seen that fly for the US come in a hellcat get above the niks then they blow all there E to get 1 kill or nothing at all and then the rest of nik's well eat him alive
the nik does so well because it is not a forgiving enemy you cant just make mistakes when fighting them
Simshell, Adding F4U-1C on the setup of okinawa is no problem, but F4U-1C is not like other "hog" because it has 20mm and the thing is Perk the 1C. :D
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the chog is almost the same as the other hogs just those 4 20mms which are not needed for such light aircraft like the nik and zero
The N1k is not as brittle as you let on, and its cannons are nothing if not extremly deadly and effective. A few pings bring down Jugs and Hogs with ease. Ive seen several 1 ping hits with catastrophic failures of the target plane. We dont need the C-Hog. We just want to match it up against the N1K. Thats all. This seems like the perfect set up to do it. We just need a different staffer to run it and find a real "balance" while including it. Drop the the Jug and FM2 if need be. Something.
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This is what it takes and doesnt take for me to bring down a N1K2-J.
1. Snap shops from an F4U-1 so far have not disabled the N1K2-J enogh for me to slow down on it.
2. Even two snap shots dont even seem to give them a pilot wound.
3. N1K2-J must be in level or (steady) flight as close as D250 with a two to three second burst to asure most if not all rounds have fount thier target.
4. Same as above but with only a split second burst or a one second burst seems to just pi$$ off the pilot. (Watch the overshoot or the N1K2-J will take off your rudder{see my previous reply}) or other vauable parts at D700. If you are slow enough, ur dead.
5. After a snap shot or two, climb up and hope someone finishs him off and you get credit.
BTW, basicaly the same for the A6M5 but with a fuel leak credit on the snap shot and not so much a threat on the over shoot if the rate of separation is fairly quick!
The Ki-61 seems to be paper, usualy a wing separation isnt a problem, however, I have only encountered three or four so far this week.
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Originally posted by LtMagee
and oh jazz, I forgot to put one den der smillies after the word pig, my bad;)
Ahh yes that sort of mistake has bitten me more than once around here. Right... nevermind my response. Know I see your true intent.
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Your wasting your time on the Chog. The axis guys, including brady, will eventually concede that the Chog doesn't unbalance the a2a war. But the will then tell you it unbalances the arena by giving the Allies a much more effective ground target killer than is possesed by the Axis.
My main gripe is that gun packages available on the Allied aircraft are not effective in killing peggy's. The Ki67's are fast and heavily gunned. If you have to stick around in their gun range pumping with enough .50 cals to have an effect, you're usually dead.
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It was "Night of the Living Peggies" last night, Naj. Musta seen over sixty thrown at the fleets flying in at 50' off the deck in a 15 minute or so timespan. Unfortunately for them there were alot of F4Us, F6Fs and FM2s willing to sacrifice themselves just as badly to keep the fleets up. Everybody died on both sides but in the end the flattops were still floating. Good thing the IJ bomber pilots never figured out the Peggy can climb from a base further back or we'd have lost `em all.
Some Georges did bomb and sink some escorts, though. But by that time it appears that the IJ players lost their wind.
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While I've been still mulling this whole chog issue in my head the last couple days I had the following thoughts. I can't seem to think of a good way to implement them. (For the record I still don't think we need 'em. :)) If they are added and unperked then they will see a lot of use at the expense of the -1D. This should fly in the face of people crying that the chog needs to be added for "historical" reasons since it was the junior partner and that would not be represented here with a free chog.
Ok so then we can perk it right? Well the problem I see with perking it is that while it would solve the numbers problem I really don't see people using a perked plane for the reasons that people seem to be most anxious to have it for. Which to me seem to be;
1) Attacking the heavily armed Ki-67 Peggy's
2) ground attack, using the 20mm to deal with the hardened ground targets.
The problem with #1 is that, yes those Pegg's are really nasty and how many people are going to want to risk the perkies going after them. #2, how many people are going to want to dive their perkies into all that flak and AAA to take some field installations out? Maybe it's just me but that doesn't seem likely in my mind. Which leaves air to air combat, somthing the exsisting and included allied planeset can more than handle on their own.
Just some thoughts on the issue as I see them, I welcome any agruments that let me look at things in a different way.
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ROFL oldman!
Coffee went up my nose, spilled over my hand and on my pants as when the light went on when I finished reading it!
Sweet! Best laugh I have had in a month.
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I'm a bit confused by the logic thread here...I'm not a hard core CT flyer so I've got a bit less of a feel for things. Maybe a few of you guys can explain things to me....
I've flown the CT a bit more over the last 6 weeks or so...going from memory...
In Africa we had the 202 and nuetered 109 vs the allied horde (clearly the 202 being the "dominent" plane).
Then we had late ETO which featured spitXIV's on parade plus the rest of the cast vs the overwhelmed luftwabble.
Then we had the Bob complete with the original 20mm meatgrinder (110)
The finladia map is the most fun (and well balanced) but I'm sure we have some plane with an "edge".
My understanding is that we're dealing with "historically correct" in all cases...so if the -c was actually there why isnt it being used (perked, restricted CV/fields whatever). Simply makes no sense, especially since it really is a less formidable plane (guns aside) than the D model.
azhacker
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Originally posted by humble
My understanding is that we're dealing with "historically correct" in all cases...so if the -c was actually there why isnt it being used (perked, restricted CV/fields whatever). Simply makes no sense, especially since it really is a less formidable plane (guns aside) than the D model.
azhacker
I almost agree with this person because "historically correct"
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Originally posted by Soulyss
1) Attacking the heavily armed Ki-67 Peggy's
2) ground attack, using the 20mm to deal with the hardened ground targets.
The problem with #1 is that, yes those Pegg's are really nasty and how many people are going to want to risk the perkies going after them. #2, how many people are going to want to dive their perkies into all that flak and AAA to take some field installations out? Maybe it's just me but that doesn't seem likely in my mind. Which leaves air to air combat, somthing the exsisting and included allied planeset can more than handle on their own.[/]
OK 1 very huge problem to all of this is that for some reason Brady doesn't like using perk points. He'll sometimes limit aircraft to certain bases but not often. Off hand I can't remember him ever using perk points which brings me back to another gripe. Which I'm not going to go into!
Again for this and a whole host of reasons I ask that we get a PTO setup on Okinawa so the comparisons stay consistent by another CM. I vote Jester for this although if he removes the F6F-5 Hellcat I'll go off on him as I did Brady.
CMs repeat after me "I shall never make a PTO setup that doesn't include the Hellcat". Got it? Good!
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LOl, I hear ya scJazz, give me a Hellcat or a Wildcat and I'm a happy camper. :)
Whoops, hit enter hehe
Maybe someone could tell me, the F4U-1C's that were used in Okinawa campaign historically... I asume they were carrier based? Or where they land based? was there even an allied airfield within flying distance of Okinawa at the time? Brady? anyone?
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I think they were land based flown by Marine Aviators in mainly Close Air Support roles.
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In March 1945, VMF-311's tasks in the Marshall Islands were complete, and it gladly prepared to move forward into the Emperor's backyard-Okinawa. For the first time the squadron engaged enemy aircraft in aerial combat, downing its first aircraft on April 7, 1945. Combat air patrols were the predominate mission from this point until the war ended.
In slightly more than four months of operations on Okinawa, the squadron destroyed 71 Japanese aircraft, the second highest score of any squadron in the Tenth Army Tactical Force. VMF-311's outstanding record was all the more noteworthy and gratifying in that only three pilots were lost and none were lost during aerial combat.
Three pilots distinguished themselves as "Aces", including the Commanding Officer Major Mike Yunck. For its outstanding performance in the Okinawa Campaign VMF-311 was awarded the prestigious Presidential Unit Citation.
They flew out of Yantan Airfield on Okinawa. They may have initially flown off the USS SITKOH BAY before moving ashore on Okinawa. Probably not, though. Sitkoh Bay was a "replenishment" carrier and delivered planes and pilots rather than participated in combat tasking. They were aboard USS BRENTON prior to Sitkoh Bay and there is mention of some sort of Corsair from Brenton participating in a CAP action over the fleet.
However, from their squadron history you have this:
Deployments:
Departure & Return - - - - - - - - Air Wing - Carrier - Aircraft - - Area of Operations:
October 6, 1943, VMF-311 Corsairs catapulted from the USS
Nassau to their new base at Samoa Naval Air Station.
October 8, 1943, VMF-311 Corsairs flew to Wallis Island and remained there until January 1944.
March 1945 VMF-311 moved to Okinawa.
So, it sounds to me like they were just transported on Sitkoh Bay.
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Where are the Seafires?:confused: :confused:
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From the CT Development Groupe Forum:
Posted by me:
"Americas 100,000:
Aug. 30th 43 first F4U-1C is produced, July 44 production the F4U-1 starts (aparetnly former date is preproduction model).
Ospery Aircraft of the Aces # 8:
VMF-311 was euiped with F4U-1C's and operated from Yonton, they gained 71 kills during the campagine
VF-85 on the Shangri-La was equiped them as well during the Campagine.
The book also places VF-85 conducting some raid's on Japan in July while flying the C's, they kept the D models they were originaly equiped with for ground atack and used the C's mostly for Air to Air."
Magor Day posted this:
"Following Bunker Hill's retirement, Essex and Benningon's F4Us would only be accompanied by Shangri-La with Air Group 85 aboard. Lt Joe D Robbins (5 kills) was assigned to VBF-85 which flew the F4U-1C. He had previously gained two victories flying the F6F with VF-6 aboard Interpid.
'On 8 April 1945, we departed Ford Island and and on 26 April 1945 we joined the carrier Task Force off Okinawa. We had 16 carriers making up three task groups. One Task Group would replenish each day whilst the other two would be hitting targets in Japan. On 4 May 1945 I was the flight leader for 12 F4U-1Cs flying CAP over a destroyer 12 miles north of Okinawa. The Japs were sending planes from Japan to attack our forces on Okinawa and ships at sea. At times kamikaze planes would be at a low altitude with fighter cover at a higher altitude. Our mission was to intercept and shoot down these aircraft. We launched in the early morning from the Shangri-La and took up our station. As always, we charged and test-fired our guns after take-off. My divison was assigned an altitude of 20,000 ft, whilst the second divison was at 10,000 ft and the third 5,000 ft. We have been on station a short time when at 0830 we received a vector at distance 26 miles to a bogey, and we were told that it was below us. I had fuel in the belly tank and I didn't want to drop it until I saw the bogey.
'These flights were about four hours long so you didn't want to drop the tank until you had to. I had my left hand on the switch in preparation, ready to go to the main gas tank and drop the belly store when I saw the bogey. We were all looking down when all of a sudden about 30 Zekes came from above and attacked us. We didn't see them approach as it was hazy and we had also been told they were below us. I switched tanks and dropped the belly tanks and made a sharp turn all at the same time - I had to. By doing this, however the engine was not getting any fuel, so it stopped. It takes only a few seconde to switch and get suction again, but I didn't have that few seconds. You don't get suction when you are making sharp turns and I was really making them. One plane was in my gun sight coming from the 10 o'clock position. I tired a 30' deflection shot and pulled the trigger; no guns. I was banking right and then left as steep as I could to keep them from shooting at me, still no engine. I kept recharging the guns and still they wouldn't fire. I kept banking one side and then to the other, keeping my nose down and losing altitude. I had at least four of them in my sights, but my guns wouldn't fire!
'These enemy planes were escort cover for some kamikaze planes below. Although I wasn't hit, they shot down my wingman, Frank Siddall, and second section leader, Sonny Chernoff, and then they left. The divison at 5000 ft then intercepted them. I was at about 16,000 ft when I got my engine started, and I followed my wingman down and he made a good landing in the water. I stayed over him until a destroyer picked him up 35 minute later. The destroyer that rescued him, the St. George, was hit by a kamikaze two days later while he was still aboard.
'Out of the four planes in my division, none of the guns would fire. At that time were the only Navy unit that had the 20 mm guns. That afternoon they were tested at high altitude and it was found that they froze and would not fire at about 15,000 ft. We checked with Washington and learned that the flights that were to test them at high altiude had been CANCELLED! From then on were restricted to 12,000 ft until we got gun heaters. We still flew CAPs and target strikes below this altitude. VBF-85 (.50 cals) flew the higher CAPs.
- - The Blue Devils books by Mark Styling & Barrett Tillman"
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So Brady, I guess your point is that the F4U-1C wasn't really effective? Due to frozen guns and all?
In slightly more than four months of operations on Okinawa, the squadron destroyed 71 Japanese aircraft, the second highest score of any squadron in the Tenth Army Tactical Force.
It'd shoulda been in this setup in the "historical" CT; this is where it was "historically" used. You use non-historical planes all the time, like Peggys at Guadalcanal.
There's no excuse for leaving it out.
Well, yah, there is ONE and everybody here knows what it is.
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No that was not my point at all calearly it was effective, I posted that for general info. Their are several Late War Japanese planes that faught at Okinawa that we do not have in AH that were far better preformers than the ones we do, while we have virtualy every late war US Navy plane that was their, the Allies have tremendious advantages already in a number of areas, adding the C hog just compounds them, it is a balance issue.
Comparing two entirely different set up's is not realy revelent to any argument, espichaly since the allied bomber was just as uber in the slot set up as the Japanese one, and in some may's more so.
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thrila: I looked long and hard at the seafire, most RN fleat air Arm forces operating off Okianwa or in suport of those operations (atacks on targets around Formosa) were Flying F4U's or Hellcats, their were some Spitfires Notably on Indafatagable, which did operate in a raid or two aganst Japan, howeaver I was unable to place them at Okinawa proper. And since the RN Presence was best rpresented by the F4U I went with one skined for their use.
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* The performance differences between the -1D and the -1C is almost none.
* The performance difference between the -1 and the -1C are less visible than say a Bf109G-2 and a G-6.
Just what exactly can the -1C do, that the -1D or -1 cannot, that you people so want it badly?
Really, all I can think of is just the ability to spray rounds incessantly at extending targets and get bullshi* kills with lucky pings, the ability to give confidence to the pilot to HO everything at sight, and the ability to provide nice ground-strafing power for both structures and vulch kills.
It's a really mixed logic - "to match up" the firepower of the N1K2 you ask for the -1C? So then, what do the IJAAF/IJN pilots get to match up the 50~60mph speed margin with?
Are you asking for gameplay balance, or historicity?
...
Obviously the limited, minimal JP planeset offers no possibility of satisfactory results - neither in terms of gameplay nor in terms of historicity. The only way to get rid of dissatisfaction, is to not run the PAC setups at all.
But oh wait, people want the setup, whether the planeset is dinked or not. :rolleyes:
So what does the staff do?
They make a decision.
brady made his. It's final.
We can ask for zillion other things but he's not gonna give it to us, and he has explained his reasons. Agree with it or not, we play by his rules - unless, like some people are lobbying, people get to be decision makers themselves.
Is that so hard to understand?
Besides, just look at the posts - its not even an universal consensus. There are mixed opinions for both sides - and yet people ask for certain things which the guy in charge again and again answered "NO" to. When's the last time we've seen a Tunisia setup with the Fw190A-5 enabled? Oh sure, I've enjoyed SpitV mass killings, winging up with some nice gents, but ever since then I've never seen the setup appear twice. Why? Because the Fw190A-5 in Tunisia, was like the Tempest of its time. Unbalancing? You bet. That's why the staff never ran that setup again.
Or how about early PAC setups when the worst JP fighters and bombers were pitted up with the best of Wildcats and SBDs? People complained, but that was once. Another fault of the plane setup choices, but it ended there, since there was no other option.
Slap up some "whiner" stickers on your foreheads guys. If you don't like this particular setup, and the guy in charge says its staying that way, then it's staying that way. Return when you get to see a setup you like. This ain't no democracy, not to mention there isn't even a public consensus of the "demos".
I don't fly N1Ks, I don't fly with a squad. I fly with whatever plane I like, with the whatever side lacking in numbers. You say the Allies are getting gangbanged because of N1k2s? I'm afraid not - I can't say I've been in the CT everday this week, but at least from what I've seen, I've seen the poorest tactics possible by both sides.
And when tactics go poof, what's left is a chaotic theater, which planes excell in such circumstances, you people already know.
Oh, and one more thing, park the fediddlein' CV 5 miles off coast and do that ack hugging thing, and you bet I'm gonna go kill it anyway I can, If I'm flying for the IJAAF that day. I don't care how many times I have to die for it, but I'm gonna do it.
As for my opinion, brady, just give them their fediddlein C-hog. Quad Hizookas are gonna shine in gangbanging fights with lots of snapshot opportunities, but the way they are flying, it's not gonna make any difference. Maybe when they learn to utilize some group tactic things, then maybe other people will ask to do away with the C-hog.
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*ShruG*
Put it in or don't. The ChoG with it's cannons and typical F4U maneuverability won't "shine" in a furball anymore than the George with it's cannons and "spin on a dime and retain E" ability. It has to be flown like any other Hog if it wants an equivilant K/D to any of the IJ fighters.
The one main reason to be afraid of the C-Hog in a setup (from a pro-axis point of view) is the possibility that it'll neuter the Peggy threat as much as the George neuters the Marauder threat.
But ... like some of the pro-axis rationalizers in this thread ... I could "care less" (in spite of taking the time to argue several paragraphs pro or con). As long as -1s or -1ds are available for the fight and within a couple of sectors of it whenever I log on. :D
There ya go. Let's keep this ball rolling! ;)
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LOL!
The CT, home of the historical matchups.
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Originally posted by Toad
LOL!
The CT, home of the historical matchups.
Why don’t you call HT and tell on him instead of whining. Since Brady 1st ran this setup a year or so ago he hasn’t enabled the chog. He has flat out said he won’t ever enable it in this set up when he runs it. Continually whining is not going to get it enabled. Remember Mandoble and Ram. Their whines got them nothing; neither will whining about Brady's "bias".
The CT has never been absolutely "historical". Not in usage of a particular plane, nor in their deployment. AH doesn’t have the necessary models to run 100% historical match ups.
There's other CT cms. Ask them to run what you want. You have HT's number and email addy just call him and complain. Tell him “Brady won't do what I say”. See what he says.
What’s really interesting is to see that the allied farm bois are but 1 set up away from being luft… err allied whiners.
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Brady has the power what he want in Combat Theater and you cannot tell him what to do or so on. Yes, Chog did went to war, but I would say that Chog can wait until Ah2 fully release and hopefully we get newer Okinawa map for CT.
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My comment on the c-hog isnt really a "request" for it...I always end up flying on the side of the meatball in pac setups since they are always outnumbered...at least when I'm up in the CT. I hate the nikki almost as much as the 109...but I flew the luwtwabble side almost all of the latewar setup. Actually grew somewhat fond of the G-6.
Anyway, I'm just curious why we run these porked setups. If your going to run the setup I really dont see the C-hog as unbalancing...especially if you limit it to 1carrier. Obviously if that CV is close then your gonna attract attention...otherwise the riceballs will have time to grab some alt anyway.
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There are a lot of us that would like to see less balance and more variety, but it seems to be a hard sell. As for the C-Hog, I dont really care either, but the thread brings up the old debate about balance vs history vs variety.
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I recently talked to HT about the CT.
I'm content with what he said. :p
Oh yeah.. so if it can't ever be enabled in an Okinawa setup, where would it ever be enabled?
Basically, because of one unreasonable guy, it'll never be seen.
Whining? I can't remember the last time I flew the C. It's not that impressive except for the gun package. It's not that big a deal for me.
I just find it amazing that he gets away with such bias. But, now I know why. ;)
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Really, all I can think of is just the ability to spray rounds incessantly at extending targets and get bullshi* kills with lucky pings, the ability to give confidence to the pilot to HO everything at sight, and the ability to provide nice ground-strafing power for both structures and vulch kills.
Wow,thanks for coming over from the MA and putting things in perspective for us.
It's a really mixed logic - "to match up" the firepower of the N1K2 you ask for the -1C? So then, what do the IJAAF/IJN pilots get to match up the 50~60mph speed margin with?
Good point. There have been no kills of Allied aircraft this set up. No one can catch them.
Besides, just look at the posts - its not even an universal consensus. There are mixed opinions for both sides - and yet people ask for certain things which the guy in charge again and again answered "NO" to. When's the last time we've seen a Tunisia setup with the Fw190A-5 enabled? Oh sure, I've enjoyed SpitV mass killings, winging up with some nice gents, but ever since then I've never seen the setup appear twice. Why? Because the Fw190A-5 in Tunisia, was like the Tempest of its time. Unbalancing? You bet. That's why the staff never ran that setup again.
Dont know where you got this from.
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I don't fly N1Ks, I don't fly with a squad. I fly with whatever plane I like, with the whatever side lacking in numbers. You say the Allies are getting gangbanged because of N1k2s? I'm afraid not - I can't say I've been in the CT everday this week, but at least from what I've seen, I've seen the poorest tactics possible by both sides.
Whats it like coming over from the MA and flying circles around us incompatent CT types? Sure wished I could have seen you in action. You sound like one smooth ace:aok
Oh, and one more thing, park the fediddlein' CV 5 miles off coast and do that ack hugging thing, and you bet I'm gonna go kill it anyway I can, If I'm flying for the IJAAF that day. I don't care how many times I have to die for it, but I'm gonna do it.
Man, that was inspiring, Im all misty now, just give me a moment please....................... ..... ok all better.
Slap up some "whiner" stickers on your foreheads guys.
YEAH!! You tell'em!!:mad:
I cant speak for the rest of these guys, but I think you have the makings of Bradys replacement. Vote KweASS a:aok
There's other CT cms. Ask them to run what you want. You have HT's number and email addy just call him and complain. Tell him “Brady won't do what I say”. See what he says.
Have you sent him your updated list of players that should be blackballed? Hows Target Rabaul? Have they seen it your way yet? What are you getting Brady for X-mas? A spellchecker? Why are you here? Wait, wait, wait, I remember. You are the self-proclaimed BBS tough guy that isnt afraid to stand up for right and wrong, blah blah blah blah blah, and Bradys lapdog.
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I don't really have a huge opinion either way on the C-hog, but I will say this...
It's a tricky thing to judge balance purely on performance numbers and other subtleties. Any 2 planes in a 1v1 are going to fight to their strengths and defend to their weaknesses. But in my experience, 1v1s are rare. Most of the time when I play CT, the numbers are 3:2 (or greater) in favor of the Allies. I would worry that adding a plane that has such a perceived notoriety about it (such as the C-hog) will cause many more to migrate to Allied and make the number-of-players balance even worse.
Sure, you can out-turn a Hog, but you can't out-turn 3 of them, and you certainly can't extend from them.
Just my 2 cents.
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Allies ALWAYS have numbers on their side![/b][/i]
This misconception was brought to you by the Society for the Protection of Aces High Axis Pilots From Meaness and Unfairness
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lol Arlo!
Just sayin' that's what I see during the two or three hours per week that I'm on... YMMV. :)
Your Mommy Kills Axis Pilots!!! :D
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:D Ok, Dux ... dammit ... I like ya.
Alright ... enough of that. It's not like we're gonna be trading spit in the shower.
(Tosses Dux a beer)
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Eeeeeuuuuuwww.
That got wierd. :eek:
but thx for the beer.
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Don't worry brady, i just felt i had say something for those lovely spits. :-) i believe there were only 2 Seafire sqdn's + mainly used for fleet defence against kamikazes due to their great climb rate.
The majority of f4u's the brits fielded were F4U IV though.
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I just find it amazing that he gets away with such bias. But, now I know why.
Did I miss something...so tell us why??????
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No.
;)
In time, it will become clear.
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Oh my cod! Brady is HT's son! The spelling shoulda gave it away!