Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Slade on September 13, 2020, 03:33:30 PM

Title: 88s and FF
Post by: Slade on September 13, 2020, 03:33:30 PM: Hello,

In WWII were 88's routinely used to fire at enemy fighter planes 300 +\- off the tail of a friendly?

If not, if they kill you should not the plane you are also 300 out on be killed? At least heavily damaged?

Thanks,

Slade :salute
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Lusche on September 13, 2020, 04:42:16 PM: Enabling damage by friendly fire from a gun would open a can of worms.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: LCADolby on September 13, 2020, 04:57:16 PM: Kill shooter would destroy the 88
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Golden Dragon on September 13, 2020, 07:23:04 PM: Leave it the way it is, Hitech. Any research into WWII fighter operations will reveal that strafing airfields was far and away the most dangerous thing pilots did. It’s already a little too easy to take the airfields as it is.

I would like to see perk points awarded for manned guns though. That would be a good addition to the game.

00pk
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Shuffler on September 13, 2020, 09:40:41 PM: I noticed too that when people die..... they come back again. This never happened in WWII.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Chalenge on September 14, 2020, 12:03:47 AM: Quote from: Shuffler on September 13, 2020, 09:40:41 PM
I noticed too that when people die..... they come back again. This never happened in WWII.

No, but an awful lot of men died crying about it.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: guncrasher on September 14, 2020, 01:46:17 AM: been playing for a few years, man guns and 88's have killed me more than a few times. however I have only been killed more than a couple of times a week if that, sometimes I went months without getting shot down. and i am the guy that mostly goes and kills ords and dar at a base.

it sucks to get shot down, but it's not really that often as to say fix something because i was unlucky

semp
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: haggerty on September 14, 2020, 11:17:20 AM: I think its the dogfights off the base that the OP is referring to, I've been shot down many times by an 88 while actively fighting someone and no attacking the base or town. They would probably be more effective if they just upped a fighter to help their buddy, but its still lame to get hit by puffy ack in dogfights.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Shuffler on September 14, 2020, 12:01:18 PM: If they took you down, they seem pretty effective in the gun. Steer clear of the base and out of the gun's range.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: haggerty on September 14, 2020, 01:02:44 PM: Quote from: Shuffler on September 14, 2020, 12:01:18 PM
If they took you down, they seem pretty effective in the gun. Steer clear of the base and out of the gun's range.

They were effective in that instance, but usually they miss. You can't steer clear of bases, thats where the combat is. The gun's range is ridiculous. I suppose we could all hide at our own bases, but I have Microsoft Flight Simulator for that.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Wiley on September 14, 2020, 01:12:59 PM: You say "dogfight off the base". They probably say "vulch". Let them get up, don't chase them into the ack if you don't want to die. Pretty simple really. Or, if you're trying to take the base, that's part of the game and requires strafing.

Now, with that said, I've had a guy ack drag me back to his base a sector away from 5k over my base.

And adding 88 specific friendly fire is a terrible idea for the MA.

Wiley.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Shuffler on September 14, 2020, 02:53:05 PM: Quote from: haggerty on September 14, 2020, 01:02:44 PM
They were effective in that instance, but usually they miss. You can't steer clear of bases, thats where the combat is. The gun's range is ridiculous. I suppose we could all hide at our own bases, but I have Microsoft Flight Simulator for that.

Well it seems fixed now..... they usually miss so they are just a nuisance.

:D
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: haggerty on September 14, 2020, 03:06:56 PM: Quote from: Shuffler on September 14, 2020, 02:53:05 PM
Well it seems fixed now..... they usually miss so they are just a nuisance.

:D

im not the OP so I'm dont think its a huge problem. I do know that the last time an 88 got me I was in a 3v1 disadvantage already. One way to avoid 88 on dogfight would be to nullify damage if friendly fighters are within 1k of you. That would avoid any friendly fire issues and wouldnt allow a player to get the bases guns killed by some sort of kill shooter mechanism.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Wiley on September 14, 2020, 04:14:48 PM: Quote from: Shuffler on September 14, 2020, 02:53:05 PM
Well it seems fixed now..... they usually miss so they are just a nuisance.

:D

There are a few guys that have pretty refined gunnery in them, and there are quite a few people with very refined ack dragging skills. It used to be 88s were ambience. These days, I get hit by one I'd say a few times a month if I don't think about them.

Wiley.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 14, 2020, 04:27:03 PM: 'Ambience' ... I like that. :D
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Wiley on September 14, 2020, 05:02:50 PM: 88s, 5 inch, and bomber gunnery have really changed for some reason over the last couple years. It used to be there were 4 or 5 guys that I knew I had to really approach their bomber right or they'd kill me. Now, the majority of bomber gunners will mess you up even if you approach them right. And I'd bet there are at least a dozen guys that can plink the furball and get kills from the 88s.

Wiley.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: guncrasher on September 14, 2020, 05:05:03 PM: back in the day, memory kind of hazy, but i believe if you got within 300 of an enemy plane cv ack would target you too.

then it was changed to if you got within 1k, ack would stop.

semp
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 14, 2020, 05:07:21 PM: I thought I remembered gettin' clobbered by CV aaa, as well. Heck, had my plane shot up by auto guns while on deck before take-off (not a 5" hit, though - I survived).
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Wiley on September 14, 2020, 05:41:27 PM: If memory serves, puffy can FF you but it's so weak it's rare it does anything meaningful.

Wiley.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: 800nate800 on September 14, 2020, 07:41:27 PM: Quote from: haggerty on September 14, 2020, 11:17:20 AM
but its still lame to get hit by puffy ack in dogfights.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Shuffler on September 15, 2020, 04:18:17 AM: When you run into folks with improved skill, you must react to it or pay the price. It does not matter what equipment they are using. Use your head.... figure it out.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: haggerty on September 15, 2020, 08:45:13 AM: Quote from: Wiley on September 14, 2020, 05:41:27 PM
If memory serves, puffy can FF you but it's so weak it's rare it does anything meaningful.

Wiley.

That only applies to auto puffy.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Puma44 on September 15, 2020, 09:18:43 AM: Quote from: Shuffler on September 15, 2020, 04:18:17 AM
When you run into folks with improved skill, you must react to it or pay the price. It does not matter what equipment they are using. Use your head.... figure it out.

Hey now, don’t be getting too realistic.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Wiley on September 15, 2020, 09:41:38 AM: Quote from: haggerty on September 15, 2020, 08:45:13 AM
That only applies to auto puffy.

Yes. Sorry, was replying to Arlo's post about CV AAA. Should've quoted it.

Wiley.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Shuffler on September 15, 2020, 09:42:20 AM: Quote from: Puma44 on September 15, 2020, 09:18:43 AM
Hey now, don’t be getting too realistic.

LOL... well if we die... we come back to haunt the culprit. :D
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Slade on September 15, 2020, 02:10:05 PM: Quote
its still lame to get hit by puffy ack in dogfights.

Bingo!

My context is when I'm not directly over the field or town, yet an 88 gets me while 300 out on enemy plane and he is untouched.

Thanks for all your posts. :salute
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: guncrasher on September 15, 2020, 02:39:51 PM: Quote from: Slade on September 15, 2020, 02:10:05 PM
Bingo!

My context is when I'm not directly over the field or town, yet an 88 gets me while 300 out on enemy plane and he is untouched.

Thanks for all your posts. :salute

that is to avoid somebody getting upset and targeting you over your field. I've done it but not on purpose, just got caught in the moments, wasn't paying attention, after shooting at red cons, i moved another direction and got 3 good hits at a friendly chasing a red con.

semp
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Shuffler on September 15, 2020, 04:28:36 PM: Quote from: Slade on September 15, 2020, 02:10:05 PM
Bingo!

My context is when I'm not directly over the field or town, yet an 88 gets me while 300 out on enemy plane and he is untouched.

Thanks for all your posts. :salute

You should carry a sign. When it is ok to shoot at you, hang it on the outside of your canopy.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Slade on September 16, 2020, 06:22:49 AM: Quote
You should carry a sign. When it is ok to shoot at you, hang it on the outside of your canopy.

That was cruel and not necessary.

To adjust your comment to the context of this question: maybe in WWII 88's did not routinely fire on enemy planes in a manner that would destroy their own planes. :old:
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Shuffler on September 16, 2020, 07:58:39 AM: Quote from: Slade on September 16, 2020, 06:22:49 AM
That was cruel and not necessary.

To adjust your comment to the context of this question: maybe in WWII 88's did not routinely fire on enemy planes in a manner that would destroy their own planes. :old:

How about... "It's a game" :aok
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 16, 2020, 08:33:49 AM: Things that did not happen in WWII by Arlo

1. Pilots that died in combat did not reappear in the tower ready to fly again.

2. 96 aircraft, fighter, attack or bomber and 23 vehicles, tanks and other, from 7 different nationalities were not made instantly available for said pilots to make use of at a moment's notice.

3. Terrains weren't fabricated to make a 3-sided balanced battle.

4. No channel 200.

5. No flying in underwear (or nekkid).

6. No squirrels with cameras.

7. No auto take-off, auto climb or auto descent.

8. No switching sides without all sorts of stink and red tape.

9. No switching back without even more stink and red tape.

10. No 30 second rearm and refuel pads.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: LCADolby on September 16, 2020, 11:04:21 AM: 11. No Arlo Spam
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 16, 2020, 11:15:28 AM: Quote from: LCADolby on September 16, 2020, 11:04:21 AM
11. No Arlo Spam

*Shakes ankle* :old:
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Shuffler on September 16, 2020, 12:13:35 PM: Arlo needs some Johnson & Johnson dolby spray
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 16, 2020, 12:40:04 PM: I didn't know Johnson & Johnson made repellent. :cool:
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: guncrasher on September 16, 2020, 01:11:57 PM: Quote from: Arlo on September 16, 2020, 12:40:04 PM
I didn't know Johnson & Johnson made repellent. :cool:

i think they make repellant instead :rofl

semp
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: LCADolby on September 16, 2020, 01:39:25 PM: I think you mean BBS needs some spam repellent :aok
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 16, 2020, 01:54:34 PM: Quote from: LCADolby on September 16, 2020, 01:39:25 PM
I think you mean BBS needs some spam repellent :aok

Perhaps it needs stalker repellent more. But if you insist, you may pay your fan dues to HT in my name. (You and Perdweeb can fight over FC prez). :aok
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: LCADolby on September 16, 2020, 02:48:27 PM: Stop stalking the BBS and every thread Arlo, and job's done. :banana:
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 16, 2020, 03:06:21 PM: Quote from: LCADolby on September 16, 2020, 02:48:27 PM
Stop stalking the BBS and every thread Arlo, and job's done. :banana:

Is that Dolbyspeak for whining about me being part of the AH community and forum? You've got an unhealthy fixation, kid. :aok
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: LCADolby on September 16, 2020, 05:54:06 PM: It's closer to "go outside and smell the fresh air Arlo, you're stale."
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 16, 2020, 06:07:35 PM: Sure, it's not at all like you have a really weird hangup about me when you could just find a better way to finish puberty. ;)

(Seriously, I'm not sure exactly what I did to hurt your feelings this badly but I assure you, it was completely unintentional ... rather accidental and unforeseen.) :old:
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Slade on September 17, 2020, 05:49:15 AM: Some of you folks are really compelled to have this best in class WWII Flight Sim behave more like an arcade game.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Shuffler on September 17, 2020, 07:07:00 AM: Quote from: Slade on September 17, 2020, 05:49:15 AM
Some of you folks are really compelled to have this best in class WWII Flight Sim behave more like an arcade game.

There has to be some adjustment for game play.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Wiley on September 17, 2020, 09:43:25 AM: Quote from: Slade on September 17, 2020, 05:49:15 AM
Some of you folks are really compelled to have this best in class WWII Flight Sim behave more like an arcade game.

Wait, aren't you the guy that wanted to be able to dump your fuel so you can be at "fighting weight" all the time instead of having a downside to taking full fuel?

And you think this is gamey? :headscratch:

Wiley.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Slade on September 17, 2020, 12:39:02 PM: Quote
Wait, aren't you the guy that wanted to be able to dump your fuel

Yes, only if it was done in WWII. I had seen some youtubes of planes doing that.

Keeping things in context is useful. :salute
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Wiley on September 17, 2020, 12:48:49 PM: Quote from: Slade on September 17, 2020, 12:39:02 PM
Yes, only if it was done in WWII. I had seen some youtubes of planes doing that.

Keeping things in context is useful. :salute

I agree.

Quote
Make the plane lighter and more effective should an unplanned red object appear.

Which looks to me like, "anytime I'm not at ideal weight in the MA". Something I'm fairly certain was not SOP in WWII.

Wiley.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 17, 2020, 01:06:44 PM: Quote from: Slade on September 17, 2020, 12:39:02 PM
Yes, only if it was done in WWII. I had seen some youtubes of planes doing that.

Keeping things in context is useful. :salute

Share the youtubes. Nobody else seems to see them.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Slade on September 18, 2020, 05:52:37 AM: Quote
Share the youtubes. Nobody else seems to see them.

Arlo I have to agree with you 100%. If there is no evidence that WWII airplanes routinely did that, I dont think it should be added.

What I saw might not have been WWII. I asked in original post to validate if it was true.

Now on 88's routinely firing into friendly planes to pluck out an enemy... :old:
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 18, 2020, 08:08:25 AM: Quote from: Slade on September 18, 2020, 05:52:37 AM
Now on 88's routinely firing into friendly planes to pluck out an enemy... :old:

That goes back to the issue of friendly fire (that and the specifics of how and if HT could program the difference between FF when it comes to one circumstance versus the other). :salute
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Slade on September 18, 2020, 01:55:14 PM: Good point Arlo. :salute

I would not describe it as an "issue". Most all wishes require some coding changes.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: icepac on September 25, 2020, 10:53:07 AM: Yeager recounted enemy airfield AA shooting past the Me262 landing as Yeager dove on it.
Title: Re: 88s and FF
Post by: Arlo on September 25, 2020, 12:04:55 PM: Quote from: icepac on September 25, 2020, 10:53:07 AM
Yeager recounted enemy airfield AA shooting past the Me262 landing as Yeager dove on it.

Likely not 88s but certainly a standing order to protect the rare German jets at all cost.