General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Mister Fork on April 23, 2020, 03:21:01 PM
Title: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Mister Fork on April 23, 2020, 03:21:01 PM
I like how the feature works in our WWI arena - can we bring this to WWII aircraft? Running your engine 100% for a long period of time should burn it out/reduce performance after a bit.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Arlo on April 23, 2020, 03:30:12 PM
Love ya, Fork ... but this kinda buzzkill would only lose players. There'd be two dozen complaint/I quit threads five minutes after implementing and I doubt many of the quitters would come back to see if it was ditched.
How about kill markings? A chess piece for every ten kills of that chess piece per tour? :D
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Spikes on April 23, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
P-51D and 190D pilots will hate you. :)
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Hotstuff on April 23, 2020, 04:12:55 PM
I think IL2 and DCS cover more extensive engine management if that's your thing. I'm honestly surprised it is even a feature in the WWI side of the game.
One thing I like about Aces High is to be able to jump into just about any plane without having to worry about extensive startup procedures or engine management. You guys should hear Saladbar trying to fly in IL2 :devil
Maybe if we got more players a "realism" arena could be set up, but right now I can think of tons of other things to fix about the game, where actually I think the engine management in this game is spot on for what this game is trying to be.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Shuffler on April 23, 2020, 04:17:28 PM
Yes I could imagine the whines. As it is, engine management really ads nothing to the game at this time.
What we really need is our SHEEP back.......................
Title: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Drano on April 23, 2020, 04:39:16 PM
The thing with engine management is that if you're gonna do that you're gonna also have to make it engine and engine in aircraft specific. What do I mean by that? Well in my brief experience in IL2, that has all that crap out the wahoo, I put the most effort into figuring out the 38(naturally) and it's systems and engine management. Haven't managed to inadvertently blow up an engine since the first few days messing with it. Wasn't a problem once I knew what the general settings should be for that plane and had stick and throttle controls mapped to get me there. So I'm comfortable there.That's just one plane tho!
I'm online one night. We're flying on a server that's Eastern front. Egads! No 38?! So had to figure out something else. Tried a 39. It has an Allison too,right? How much different could it be? Started up fine. Used similar settings to the 38. Taxi'd to the runway. Was overheating by the time I got the gear up! Couldn't seem to control it. Blew engine in sight of the field. Tried a P-40, again an Allison engined bird. Was better. Only managed to kill a few engines but managed to land that one intact a couple of times too! What I didn't know at the time was that the 40 had a rep in the game as having a glass engine that was supposedly on the list of things to be corrected. I'd pushed the throttle up too fast. Bang! Done.
The LW planes are a bit easier as they have a lot of automatic systems. But not all of them do. More crap to learn and map. Russian birds? More different stuff and instruments in Cyrillic/metric. Other allied birds? More stuff to learn. It's....a lot of stuff!
So it's not a simple thing to just have engine management. If you were gonna have simplified engine management what would be the point? Isn't that kinda what we already have?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Hotstuff on April 23, 2020, 04:43:24 PM
I wish there was a way to incentivize people to not use MIL power all the time, but I can't think of anything without making the burn rates ridiculous or to introduce engine management.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Arlo on April 23, 2020, 04:48:17 PM
I wish there was a way to incentivize people to not use MIL power all the time ...
The incentive would be in long scenario frames where your mission may require squeezing the most range out of your craft or you just won't make it back.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Busher on April 23, 2020, 07:04:39 PM
You don't even need to be that complex. All HT would have to do is make taildraggers land like they really land. 95% of the players would ground loop every arrival and roll themselves into a ball. It'd sure cut down on the "XXXXX landed 4 kills in an F4U-1A".
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: 100Coogn on April 23, 2020, 07:04:44 PM
What about when your are shot the hell up and blowing smoke and oil over the windscreen?? How's about a little performance hit there. Shouldn't fly like a brand new plane when you have holes in the wings and are overheating.
Let's do some coding boys.
That is all...
Coogan
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Hotstuff on April 23, 2020, 07:22:02 PM
You don't even need to be that complex. All HT would have to do is make taildraggers land like they really land. 95% of the players would ground loop every arrival and roll themselves into a ball. It'd sure cut down on the "XXXXX landed 4 kills in an F4U-1A".
As long as I land my plane Hoagi style, I can land my kills, gear down or not :D
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Puma44 on April 24, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
You don't even need to be that complex. All HT would have to do is make taildraggers land like they really land. 95% of the players would ground loop every arrival and roll themselves into a ball. It'd sure cut down on the "XXXXX landed 4 kills in an F4U-1A".
Yeah, and then make that plane unavailable to re-up for X amount of time because of the ground loop damage that just happened. After all, the mechanics are going to need time for repairs. :rofl
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Busher on April 24, 2020, 10:12:33 AM
Yeah, and then make that plane unavailable to re-up for X amount of time because of the ground loop damage that just happened. After all, the mechanics are going to need time for repairs. :rofl
So sad to see a gorgeous Stearman abused like that.
Puma have you ever been able to beg/borrow/steal any tailwheel time? I'm old enough that TG's were the norm at the flight schools I started at back in 1963. Mostly J-3's, J-4's, Taylorcraft, but the one Luscombe at the club was most fun.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Puma44 on April 24, 2020, 10:23:54 AM
So sad to see a gorgeous Stearman abused like that.
Puma have you ever been able to beg/borrow/steal any tailwheel time? I'm old enough that TG's were the norm at the flight schools I started at back in 1963. Mostly J-3's, J-4's, Taylorcraft, but the one Luscombe at the club was most fun.
Yes, joined CAP at age 17 in order to fly their Super Cub. Also time in Citabria, C140, owned a C180 for nearly 20 years, Stearman, and the ultimate taildragger; P-51.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: perdue3 on April 24, 2020, 12:35:08 PM
So sad to see a gorgeous Stearman abused like that.
Puma have you ever been able to beg/borrow/steal any tailwheel time? I'm old enough that TG's were the norm at the flight schools I started at back in 1963. Mostly J-3's, J-4's, Taylorcraft, but the one Luscombe at the club was most fun.
Lots of time in an 8E.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Busher on April 24, 2020, 04:04:46 PM
Yes, joined CAP at age 17 in order to fly their Super Cub. Also time in Citabria, C140, owned a C180 for nearly 20 years, Stearman, and the ultimate taildragger; P-51.
You owned a P51? Now I am really green with envy. I only ever got an hour in one... it belonged to the late Jack Palmer of Palmer Airmotive in Wellesville NY. They were a shop that painted the 25D I flew.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Puma44 on April 24, 2020, 04:06:38 PM
You owned a P51? Now I am really green with envy. I only ever got an hour in one... it belonged to the late Jack Palmer of Palmer Airmotive in Wellesville NY. They were a shop that painted the 25D I flew.
No, but wish I did. Paid for the privilege and had more fun than I can describe.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Busher on April 24, 2020, 04:08:35 PM
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: hitech on April 24, 2020, 05:15:48 PM
We don't over heat WWI engines, the over rev is do to fixed pitch propellers, they can be run at 100% all the time as long as you don't go to fast in a dive.
They can also be set to be auto governed in settings.
The issue is that in reality most of the planes could be run at mil power all the time. It simply shortened engine life.
HiTech
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Busher on April 25, 2020, 11:27:01 AM
Thank you sir! The Mustang is surprisingly easy to land, very solid, and straight forward.
As with any airplane, there’s always someone who can make that an exception.
Plus, some buildings and tall bushes. :D
That was painful to watch. The landing looked so good until the aggressive elevator inputs after the first little bounce.... and then the braking :bhead Having enough scratch to buy a Ferrari won't make you Michael Schumacher either. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Puma44 on April 25, 2020, 03:48:21 PM
That was painful to watch. The landing looked so good until the aggressive elevator inputs after the first little bounce.... and then the braking :bhead Having enough scratch to buy a Ferrari won't make you Michael Schumacher either. :rolleyes:
Yeah, especially when a little back pressure and keeping it straight would have made for a less embarrassing outcome. I’m told by my Mustang contacts that a prop is about $100,000.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Busher on April 25, 2020, 03:54:57 PM
Yeah, especially when a little back pressure and keeping it straight would have made for a less embarrassing outcome. I’m told by my Mustang contacts that a prop is about $100,000.
Not to mention the internal damage to a v12 stopping it in that way. Can you say Twisted Crankshaft 3 times quickly? :eek:
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Puma44 on April 25, 2020, 04:04:56 PM
Not to mention the internal damage to a v12 stopping it in that way. Can you say Twisted Crankshaft 3 times quickly? :eek:
Well, I wasn’t going to go there but, yeah that’s a whole other level of $$$$$$$$s.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: bustr on April 28, 2020, 02:17:17 PM
Between March 42 and November 43 the Merlin company wanted increase performance and run time capability of Merlin engines. The test was 3000rpm and max boost for the given engine. In the beginning it was 1 hour continuous along with take off load tests. Then by mid 43 it was a 50 hour test with a Merlin 66 3000rpm 18boost. Then before the end of November 1943 a 100 hour test at 3000rpm 18 boost.
The engines along the way had problems and ultimately strengthened to achieve the 1943 100 hour test. Oh, and the final 100 hour test engine was then mounted into a spitfire for another 100 hours of testing. This is where a 200 hour Merlin 66 test reference comes from in some documents.
Here are the components that had to be strengthened: Crankcase, main bearings, end oil feed crank shaft, and deep top land pistons.
Republic did an 8 hour run at WEP on a stand with an R2800. Then mounted it in a P47 and ran it for 110 hours as a test plane. Military engines could be run at full rpm and boost for long periods continuously. WEP and other running limitations were to extend the useful life span so you were not consuming engines and needing replacements which on many fronts during WW2 were a scarce commodity.
While a piston engine aircraft is on the ground sitting or taxiing, isn't that the hardest time on engines due to not having enough air flow to cool the engine? And so would require the greatest attention to engine management settings? Used to fly with my father at times when he flew cargo in a Beech 18. He was most worried about engine management and over heating while on the ground since it had two radial engines.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Busher on April 28, 2020, 03:03:44 PM
While a piston engine aircraft is on the ground sitting or taxiing, isn't that the hardest time on engines due to not having enough air flow to cool the engine? And so would require the greatest attention to engine management settings? Used to fly with my father at times when he flew cargo in a Beech 18. He was most worried about engine management and over heating while on the ground since it had two radial engines.
I flew Beech 18's as a young and stupid pilot needing to build multi-engine time to get to the airlines. Considering that the last new P&W 985 Junior was built in 1953 (first built in 1929), trust me, overheating on the ground was only 1 of about 1000 things pilots worried about flying that airplane.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Arlo on April 28, 2020, 03:09:30 PM
Just adding internet images of the Beech 18 for reference/appreciation:
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: bustr on April 28, 2020, 04:06:10 PM
Yeah, that's about the same cockpit but, you are missing all the taped on check lists to keep the engines happy. My father shared 3 Beech 18 with other delivery pilots. Some were less diligent than others about engine management. The company had a small warehouse with replacement engines back from refurbishment and overhaul. A lot of younger pilots went through the company who didn't grow up on radials marking time to move up the commercial ranks.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Busher on April 28, 2020, 07:17:22 PM
Yeah, that's about the same cockpit but, you are missing all the taped on check lists to keep the engines happy. My father shared 3 Beech 18 with other delivery pilots. Some were less diligent than others about engine management. The company had a small warehouse with replacement engines back from refurbishment and overhaul. A lot of younger pilots went through the company who didn't grow up on radials marking time to move up the commercial ranks.
I can't remember how many '18s the Company I flew for had but they had a major carrot to dangle to us "kids". Do a good job and we'll check you out on the DC-4. Whoopee huh :rolleyes: I ended up quitting/getting fired because I refused to fly an '18 that had 3 out of 4 mags working. Apparently the Company was pretty cavalier about engine management (and my Butt) too.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Shuffler on April 28, 2020, 09:07:57 PM
I can't remember how many '18s the Company I flew for had but they had a major carrot to dangle to us "kids". Do a good job and we'll check you out on the DC-4. Whoopee huh :rolleyes: I ended up quitting/getting fired because I refused to fly an '18 that had 3 out of 4 mags working. Apparently the Company was pretty cavalier about engine management (and my Butt) too.
Sounds like the group who managed the none-o-nine.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: FLS on April 29, 2020, 06:27:38 AM
I like how the feature works in our WWI arena - can we bring this to WWII aircraft? Running your engine 100% for a long period of time should burn it out/reduce performance after a bit.
You are confusing over-speeding a fixed pitch propeller with running an engine at 100% throttle. The Storch has a fixed prop and you can over speed it in the WW2 arena. The WW1 rotary engines always ran at full throttle, They just turned off spark plugs to reduce power.
Aircraft engines do wear from high power which is why they get rebuilt after a few hundred hours of use. In AH you get a new engine each flight so you can abuse it for a couple of hours without problems.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: avionix on April 29, 2020, 08:24:55 AM
Kermit Weeks has quite a stock of radials in his warehouse with packing dates of the mid-1950's. You look inside and there is still cosmoline or grease caked around the engines.
Just wish he would do something with all of the stuff he has. Has so many cool birds that sit and lose airworthiness. The JU-52 he flew years ago is in pieces now, the Short Sunderland is no longer airworthy and the list goes on. Great collection, but I fear there is not enough focus to keep them flying.
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Vulcan on April 29, 2020, 04:06:12 PM
For those really keen on reality I offer some personal reality services: - smothering to simulate hypoxia - high performance air con system to simulate freezing temperatures - a bucket of hot burning oil - a fat chick to sit on you to simulate high G forces (no she is fully clothed and you must be to) - a 300 calibre rifle for those 'special' moments
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Arlo on April 29, 2020, 04:37:50 PM
For those really keen on reality I offer some personal reality services: - smothering to simulate hypoxia - high performance air con system to simulate freezing temperatures - a bucket of hot burning oil - a fat chick to sit on you to simulate high G forces (no she is fully clothed and you must be to) - a 300 calibre rifle for those 'special' moments
A vibrator to sit on to simulate harmonics?
Title: Re: Add engine overheating like WWI planes
Post by: Vulcan on April 30, 2020, 05:15:33 PM