Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DmonSlyr on April 18, 2021, 11:55:35 AM
-
4 maps that need to go. Every weekend I get stuck on one of these maps because they stay up forever and/or create low action, especially during the off hours. I always find low #s with these maps. I have been having trouble finding good balanced fights, flying far distances and having to get 20K to be in the fight. I believe without these maps, the #s would be better off. It would be great to substitute these maps for new ones. I feel like it's just the same ole same ole every time I log in to play.
The maps are:
BowlMA - Too dang big for the MA, maybe during peak time with 160+ it can be fun, but late and night and early morning are just boring with 70 players... Especially if the map just pops up and you have to fly across the straights for the fight. It feels like it takes all afternoon for one sortie. There is no way to fight both the other teams if your side doesn't have a fight. Too many bases and too much going on. Most of the time there are tiny little dars scattered all over the place. The map generally takes 3-4 days to win, it can stay up all weekend and can really be boring.
Buzzsaw - there is just no direction, its a giant fight in the middle, all 20k fights in BnZ planes. There are hardly ever any fights on the outside of the map, the #s are always low for this map. There is never any strategy, long flights to bases on the outside of the map. The middle makes little sense and many people dislike it. There are no CV fights and the CVs are practically pointless, IMO, the whole base layout needs to be redone. It's too discombobulated and the bases on the outside are too far.
CraterMA - It's just way too big and the bases are too far. The middle makes very little since. It's all geared up for tankers, but no fighter action. You cannot fight both teams if your side doesn't have a fight. during the off hours you find small dars all over the place. It's way too big for the current player base. In the peak hours, there can be some fights, but it is not helping to increase the low #s during the off hours. Right now at 12PM on sunday, there are 40 players on and nothing going on, small dars on the other side of the map, I don't have time to jabo random bases and play in the ack. This map will probably be up until Tuesday. Another map that keeps low #s and can be very boring to play all weekend. This is an old map from AH2 and it is getting very old at this point.
Mindnoa - The map is another really old one that normally creates low #s because it creates fights that are super high altitude. I feel like most players are tired of this map as well. It can be very tough to win due to it's layout. The side that ends up on the south east side normally has smaller fights. Sometimes the bases can seem so far. With bases that are 4K, it creates very high alt BnZ style of play, which is boring for most players. I feel like most of the action is condensed on the west side and north on the map, but only 2 teams can play in that. The bases seem too far for the size of the map, it can stay up for 3 days aswell because it's a tough map to win.
Most other maps get rolled in about a day or maybe 2 which means we get stuck with these 4 maps more often that stay up forever. This creates kind of a boring atmosphere to always have to play the same maps over and over, every single weekend it seems like I get stuck playing on these same maps. And when I finally get a chance to play for an hour, I cannot find fights because there are tiny dars scattered all over the place, or no one is even fighting my side of the map. I cannot switch cause Im using the "low #s auto switch". Many times, I dont have anywhere to fight, so i'll just go play another game. Many times I'll sit watching the map for a few hours to see if it's worth it for me to roll.
Aces High is just not seeing the best fights with these maps and its creating boring action for most fighter guys like myself. By removing these maps, it will allow the other smaller maps to shine more and I believe the #s and the fights would increase overall in the game. Especially if we can replace them with new maps. I truly believe that a lot of people like myself are tired of these same ole maps over and over again because some of the others get rolled very quickly in the off hours that I never get to play.
Thanks for consideration!
-
CraterMA and BowlMA are fine.
Buzzsaw and Mindanao are total trash, though.
Pizza Map is pretty bad too. I would not miss it if it were to somehow vanish.
-
Have either of you thought about designing and creating what each of y'all think would be a good all around map that the entire AH community would enjoy playing on including:
Win the war/ map players
Dedicated Bomber flyers
Dedicated Fighter plane flyers
Dedicated Ground Vehicle participants
Base capturing Squadrons / Groups
Dedicated Naval CV & BB warfare participants etc, etc....
I, myself, started out years ago with starting out designing the Training Arena Terrain and one of the older KOTH Terrains... which Hammer helped on the TA Terrain and Dux took the design and ideas we wanted and built the Training Arena Terrain for the AH community and AH Training Corps..
I can not recall who I turned over the 2 KOTH Terrain designs to, so that they could create the Terrains... iirc we are either on our 4th or 5th KOTH Terrain design now...which in my opinion is the best one to date! yet I cannot even remember who designed/ created this current one...
Just wondering.... I have always looked at it like this: if you don't like what the game currently is offering, whether it be a certain terrain/map, a special event or certain aspects of the way that event is being run or maybe have some other ideas of what might help the AH community ... whether it be Training Clinics, making Training Films or videos... maybe creating a new special event etc....then I personally would do my best to get accomplished whatever the idea/ actions/activities, etc....were
~SALUTE~
TC
-
I think you can expect to see things to remain as they are for the unforeseeable feature after all... they still have a beta forum on the bulletin boards last posted on in 2016. :devil
-
Buzzsaw and Mindanao are total trash, though.
This has been stated, literally thousands of times...at least so far as Buzzsaw is concerned.
I wouldn't hold your breath.
-
+1
The best maps get rolled too quickly. Noticed sometimes in less than 6 hours...
Not sure the solution to keep the good maps up longer though.
-
+1
The best maps get rolled too quickly. Noticed sometimes in less than 6 hours...
Not sure the solution to keep the good maps up longer though.
To me, it's not about how quickly they get rolled, its about bigger maps staying up for too long. So you constantly run into them on the weekends relative to others. If CraterMA and BowlMA were gone, you'd see many other maps during the weekend. 1-2 maps a day would be a better solution, which is how long most other maps last anyway. When one of these big ones stays up for 3 days plus, it becomes stale and I generally find it the hardest to find action when not prime time.
We need to incentivize fighters to come back to the game. These kind of high alt, BnZ style maps really aren't benefiting what I believe the majority of players are really looking for.
My biggest issue is that these maps do not provide enough action to keep players interested in the off hours. When I see a bunch of tiny dars, or only 1 or 2 tiny dars, it's not worth it for me to roll and spend 25 minutes to maybe find one 15k 190 or who the heck knows whats in that sector.
-
Greebo’s Crater map was a GV’r favorite until the update with all the trees and extra vegetation now in Tank Town.
Crater MA Tank Town is totally deserted unfortunately.
-
I think is gameplay going downhill that is hurting things more than the size of the maps.
We have always had issues with pickers, or players who want to win the war but dont want to fight for it so they NOE and run as soon as a defender show's up, as well as players who want nothing more than kills and will do anything for them, HO ram, vulch, or spawn camp instead of fight.
This is all made worst by low numbers, the lower the numbers the worst it is.
I hate buzzsaw. I think its one of the worst maps out there due to the "action" being stuck in the middle where everyone is going after easy kills in GV vs the depots, with other looking for the easy kills on the GVs, with others looking for the easy kills on the bomber going after the GVs, with others picking those going after the bombers. Totally pointless waste that doesnt promote anything but bad game play.
However even on that map last night a few of us got a night battle going for a couple of ports the Knights had and the Bish wanted. It was shaping up into a long fight due to a certain group that enjoys doing nothing but picking on the Knit side. after padding their scores for a bit our squad left the area and spent a couple hours with a fight for a couple of other port against the Rooks which was fun had by all. A few ruin the fun for the many by poor gameplay.
Getting the numbers up in the game would do away with running into poor gamers. Another option is Hitech could try changing some of the setting in certain maps to curb some of that poor game play. Even if changes arent aimed at curbing poor gameplay but just change features, like harden FHs, but make them stay down longer once you do get them down. Things just for a change to "spice" things up for those getting close to leaving due to burnout/boredom.
Adding maps is all fine and good but they take a lot of time to build, and there are just so many ways to layout a relatively even starting point in a map. Im ok with getting rid of the bigger maps, like they have done before, but I dont really see it happening. It looks like Hitech is sticking with the status quo so as to not mess anything up and chace players away without having a good influx of new players. What we see is, I think, what we got for any forseeable future.
-
I agree that the maps are the single largest issue in this game...but I don't see any changes happening other than the game no longer existing within the next 5 years.
-
I think is gameplay going downhill that is hurting things more than the size of the maps.
We have always had issues with pickers, or players who want to win the war but dont want to fight for it so they NOE and run as soon as a defender show's up, as well as players who want nothing more than kills and will do anything for them, HO ram, vulch, or spawn camp instead of fight.
This is all made worst by low numbers, the lower the numbers the worst it is.
I hate buzzsaw. I think its one of the worst maps out there due to the "action" being stuck in the middle where everyone is going after easy kills in GV vs the depots, with other looking for the easy kills on the GVs, with others looking for the easy kills on the bomber going after the GVs, with others picking those going after the bombers. Totally pointless waste that doesnt promote anything but bad game play.
However even on that map last night a few of us got a night battle going for a couple of ports the Knights had and the Bish wanted. It was shaping up into a long fight due to a certain group that enjoys doing nothing but picking on the Knit side. after padding their scores for a bit our squad left the area and spent a couple hours with a fight for a couple of other port against the Rooks which was fun had by all. A few ruin the fun for the many by poor gameplay.
Getting the numbers up in the game would do away with running into poor gamers. Another option is Hitech could try changing some of the setting in certain maps to curb some of that poor game play. Even if changes arent aimed at curbing poor gameplay but just change features, like harden FHs, but make them stay down longer once you do get them down. Things just for a change to "spice" things up for those getting close to leaving due to burnout/boredom.
Adding maps is all fine and good but they take a lot of time to build, and there are just so many ways to layout a relatively even starting point in a map. Im ok with getting rid of the bigger maps, like they have done before, but I dont really see it happening. It looks like Hitech is sticking with the status quo so as to not mess anything up and chace players away without having a good influx of new players. What we see is, I think, what we got for any forseeable future.
I was there earlier fugitive, had just gotten switched from knights. I noticed our cv there and I jumped to see if their cv was there. I was just having fun by myself, sank all the boats twice in a row, then somebody else jumped in the guns, we sank the cv again and said, we should take the port. so we took the port and the cv too.
decided to get the other port, I upped bombers, got the vh, somebody was there deacking so I ditched my drones and got the guns left. we would have taken it easy but the guy with the troops decided to bring a goon, because he wanted a goon capture for this tour. he never made it, man guns were up and 2 fighters were there. and he was yelling at everybody so I logged. watched a movie with my wife came back and saw the port and a couple of other bases taken. tried to defend but I gave up, just me and another guy were there so they took them back. almost evverybody else was in the middle of the map. I logged again and watched some videos.
but overall I had fun, poor game play is a matter of opinion. I mean the guy who was desperate to get a goon capture was just annoying the rest of us, on the other hand, he's a cool cat. anyway, tweaking the system to for example stop vulchers and pickers will have consequences that you may not like if you think about it.
semp
-
I have three new maps ready for the MA: Reefs, Badlands, and Crags. They can be downloaded for testing and comments with "Choose Terrain" and "Offline Practice". Don't know if they would attract new subscribers, but they would provide some variety for veterans players.
-
I also have 2 new maps ready to upload, 3Points & TexArk. Both are small maps, 33 and 32 bases per side respectively. 3Points has CV and BB task groups, while TexArk is land based. Both were generated with Artik's "MakeAHMap", 3Points based on the Great Lakes region and TexArk, as you might guess, the N. Texas/Arkansas region.
As Kong stated, they can be downloaded for testing and comments with "Choose Terrain" and "Offline Practice".
There are limits to what new maps will do. The variety of the terrain, that's easy, but there are only so many ways you can configure bases for a given size map.
-
Looking forward to seeing new maps!
-
I have three new maps ready for the MA: Reefs, Badlands, and Crags. They can be downloaded for testing and comments with "Choose Terrain" and "Offline Practice". Don't know if they would attract new subscribers, but they would provide some variety for veterans players.
I also have 2 new maps ready to upload, 3Points & TexArk. Both are small maps, 33 and 32 bases per side respectively. 3Points has CV and BB task groups, while TexArk is land based. Both were generated with Artik's "MakeAHMap", 3Points based on the Great Lakes region and TexArk, as you might guess, the N. Texas/Arkansas region.
As Kong stated, they can be downloaded for testing and comments with "Choose Terrain" and "Offline Practice".
There are limits to what new maps will do. The variety of the terrain, that's easy, but there are only so many ways you can configure bases for a given size map.
Looking forward to playing yalls maps, lots of hard goes into those!
-
I have three new maps ready for the MA: Reefs, Badlands, and Crags. They can be downloaded for testing and comments with "Choose Terrain" and "Offline Practice". Don't know if they would attract new subscribers, but they would provide some variety for veterans players.
I also have 2 new maps ready to upload, 3Points & TexArk. Both are small maps, 33 and 32 bases per side respectively. 3Points has CV and BB task groups, while TexArk is land based. Both were generated with Artik's "MakeAHMap", 3Points based on the Great Lakes region and TexArk, as you might guess, the N. Texas/Arkansas region.
As Kong stated, they can be downloaded for testing and comments with "Choose Terrain" and "Offline Practice".
There are limits to what new maps will do. The variety of the terrain, that's easy, but there are only so many ways you can configure bases for a given size map.
Man if we could remove those maps I mentioned for these maps, I'd be so happy. It would provide a much needed breath of fresh air. I am just getting tired of seemingly playing the same 3-4 huge maps every weekend because they cannot be won very quickly relative to the others. We really need some maps that are better suited for the off hours. These smaller maps are the way to go.
Annnnd, if they were marketed on the front page, or front page of steam, I can bet we would see an increase in #s.
-
I have three new maps ready for the MA: Reefs, Badlands, and Crags. They can be downloaded for testing and comments with "Choose Terrain" and "Offline Practice". Don't know if they would attract new subscribers, but they would provide some variety for veterans players.
I checked out Reefs during a break today. I like it. One problem I have is that it is way too easy to resup the AAA, Ammo, and radar with an M3 gv spawn. Its like a 1-2min drive to resup, maybe a 3min flight for a c47, so it wouldnt make bombing the strats really worth it in my opinion.
Reefs map: https://i.imgur.com/arV2pPM.jpg
-
I deliberately made the strat resupply times short -- around 2 minutes. That means it takes one player 30 minutes to resupply the strat, about the same time it took a player to attack it. And if the attacker's team mates destroy field assets while the strat is being resupplied, it takes MUCH longer to repair everything. So, coordinated strat/field attacks are encouraged and rewarded.
To me, resupplying strats is the most tedious aspect of the game and I designed the map to minimize it. For players who like spending their time resupplying, we have Buzzsaw. :D
-
I deliberately made the strat resupply times short -- around 2 minutes. That means it takes one player 30 minutes to resupply the strat, about the same time it took a player to attack it. And if the attacker's team mates destroy field assets while the strat is being resupplied, it takes MUCH longer to repair everything. So, coordinated strat/field attacks are encouraged and rewarded.
To me, resupplying strats is the most tedious aspect of the game and I designed the map to minimize it. For players who like spending their time resupplying, we have Buzzsaw. :D
I like the thought process behind it, i use to log out when the HQ would go down. It only got worse when you spent all that time to resupply and it was down an hour later.
-
I deliberately made the strat resupply times short -- around 2 minutes. That means it takes one player 30 minutes to resupply the strat, about the same time it took a player to attack it. And if the attacker's team mates destroy field assets while the strat is being resupplied, it takes MUCH longer to repair everything. So, coordinated strat/field attacks are encouraged and rewarded.
To me, resupplying strats is the most tedious aspect of the game and I designed the map to minimize it. For players who like spending their time resupplying, we have Buzzsaw. :D
That makes sense! Now you gave me a new strategy idea :) As long as those bases nearby can have their VH or Bomber Hangers shut down, IDK if thats possible on the bases with the red slash mark through them.
I also checked out Badlands and Crag. I think all three should be put into the game to replace at least buzzsaw, small pizza (I think Crags is a better looking small pizza like map), and CraterMA
Do we have to wait for a AH 3 update release? Or can HiTech turn on/off maps and replace the old ones with the new ones?
For those at work or whatever:
Badlands map image: https://i.imgur.com/6JXQHgO.jpg
Crags map image; https://i.imgur.com/rES7yDU.jpg
-
That makes sense! Now you gave me a new strategy idea :) As long as those bases nearby can have their VH or Bomber Hangers shut down, IDK if thats possible on the bases with the red slash mark through them.
I also checked out Badlands and Crag. I think all three should be put into the game to replace at least buzzsaw, small pizza (I think Crags is a better looking small pizza like map), and CraterMA
Do we have to wait for a AH 3 update release? Or can HiTech turn on/off maps and replace the old ones with the new ones?
For those at work or whatever:
Badlands map image: https://i.imgur.com/6JXQHgO.jpg
Crags map image; https://i.imgur.com/rES7yDU.jpg
Thanks for posting the maps Svaalbar.
I think those look much better for off hours gameplay. I could see some real big furballs during the weekend. Much better for the current gameplay. Of course I'd have to play them first.
Thanks Popeye and Jimmy for taking the time and making these maps. It really means a lot to all of us. :salute
-
TexArk uploaded to Terrains, let me know what you think.
-
Had a look at 3points and TexArk.
Looks like bases are reasonably close on 3points once you have a beachhead on the enemy island, but it's a long flight (15 min) to that first field. (At least until the CV gets there.)
Seems like both maps could use some clouds -- I love the AH clouds. :D
Nice work Kenai. :salute
-
Didn't even think of clouds Kong lol. I'll go back and check that out. Is it pretty straight forward? :aok
-
I deliberately made the strat resupply times short -- around 2 minutes. That means it takes one player 30 minutes to resupply the strat, about the same time it took a player to attack it. And if the attacker's team mates destroy field assets while the strat is being resupplied, it takes MUCH longer to repair everything. So, coordinated strat/field attacks are encouraged and rewarded.
To me, resupplying strats is the most tedious aspect of the game and I designed the map to minimize it. For players who like spending their time resupplying, we have Buzzsaw. :D
Well strat raids have risk involved where as resupplying does not.
-
Well strat raids have risk involved where as resupplying does not.
Which means strat raids have fun involved, where as resupplying does not. :D
-
Well strat raids have risk involved where as resupplying does not.
I have noticed over the years, it seems the new players pickup on the resupp work as they learn the game. Without the ability to re-supply the strats, it becomes nothing more than a beat down. I would also argue that re-supplying has its risk as well, we have all seen fighters NOE into strats to kill Goons and M3s.
-
Thank you to those that dedicate their time and mental powers to create enjoyable maps.
-
I think if most of you signed up for auto country switch, most of these " gameplay " issues would vanish
Eagler
-
Had a look at 3points and TexArk.
Looks like bases are reasonably close on 3points once you have a beachhead on the enemy island, but it's a long flight (15 min) to that first field. (At least until the CV gets there.)
Seems like both maps could use some clouds -- I love the AH clouds. :D
Nice work Kenai. :salute
Thanks for the feedback Kong, and the "atta boy" :aok.
I did go back and change the V-bases on the islands to Small Air Fields. You now can be over an enemy base in 4 minutes on the islands. That should get the fly boys happier. The TT is still there, but now the gv-ers will have to contend with the bombers and jabos, but you can't have every thing.
-
Mindanoa is the absolute worst map.
The others are least offer a balanced approach.
I vote if a map has to go it needs to be Mindanao.
-
CraterMA is small enough that I can take off a me163 and dogfight over the center before gliding to a landing at a tank base or get shot down doing it.
-
Hey Kenai - I checked out your two maps today.
3Points - I like it, but feel like it could get into a stalemate in off-time hours with the long flight times like KONG mentioned if theres no beachhead
TexArk looks too big for our current MA numbers, maybe even in Prime Time... but what do I know, I've never made map :)
Nice work to both you and KONG - I want to play on these maps ASAP!
-
I think the issue is low population, not naps.
-
Thanks for the feedback Svaalbar. You did notice on 3points, I changed the island vbases to small air bases, right? That should start it off. 3points has 33 bases per country and texark has 32, that's 7 bases per country to roll the map.
Need to add clouds to my 2, Kong sent me a note to get me started.
-
I think the issue is low population, not naps.
naps are good way :rofl
semp
-
I think the issue is low population, not naps.
naps are good way :rofl
semp
-
I think the issue is low population, not naps.
I think maps and gameplay opportunities which were mostly designed for a larger population, in combination with low numbers, amplifies the most common complaint found in external reviews of AH: poor and inequitable gameplay. A low-risk approach is now far too supported by the disposition of the MA. The last time I was in (Euro daytime) it was not uncommon to see planes of all and any types diving away and running to ack when encountering any another plane co-e or after a single merge to evaluate if they had advantage or not.
With this architecture, a combat-avoidant, low-risk approach is always advantageous. Higher risk combat-based skill-approach is occasionally advantageous. Thus a trend is set and over time the latter faction has diluted away. Diluted away mostly to other games apparently as air combat is evidently popular. Furthermore challenge is what younger players seek, not ease and certainty. That's a fundamental generational misunderstanding. Projection I think the psychologists call it :)
Congruent, another factor is in play. The quality of ACM has degraded along with the loss of those players. Now for the most part (notable and interesting exceptions aside) you have highly effective players (not highly-skilled players, there's a subtle difference). You can do things and watch their OODA loop on a hair trigger snap to EGRESS. Now take the experiential perspective of a newer player, if you can. One unfamiliar with the specific nuances of the MA which facilitate that approach. That's hard to set aside years of experience and indoctrination to imagine that.
One could take the analogy of a 1970s toaster: underdone, underdone, underdone, burned. That threshold area of 'just right' is far too narrow in the MA. There's two reasons no one buys a 1970's toaster anymore...
-
I do like the highly skilled vs highly effective player descriptions. Makes perfect sense. In FSO I always tried to be highly effective, while in the melee you let worries go and just get into the moment. This is where the skill is built. Also what can make you a more effective pilot in events when virtual death and results matter.
-
Maps and population, as well as game play, have a huge bearing on this subject. Naturally the more people participating makes the game play more attractive. The variations on how one wishes to play the game are wide. Low numbers and differing ideas have an impact. We can not tell how someone should play the game. We, back some years ago, had many more people playing on a map. So playing in ones prefered style was easy to find. One could join the win the war folks and take bases or strctly air combat. We could also get involved in the ground war. The Map wasn't such a big deal then. Now since the population has declined one style effects how the other two styles are affected. Say the majority are playing in vehicles, it makes it harder to find an air to air fight. However taking a base fight can combine all three with defense, air to air and a ground fight. Some players do not wish to play that way. Some who want to take a base will just go to another base easier to take. That kills the fight but pleases those who wish to take bases unopposed.
It's a conundrum to be sure. So I also agree with above statements that it is not the map it's the lack of participants. Easier to tly successful bombing missions in the AM US time as compared to the evening when the population is twice as large.
Just a few random thoughts.
-
The last couple years have made me into a big believer in shorter distances between bases to encourage A2A engagement. You can pretty much set your clock to the air battles being less frequent and intense on the maps that have the fields spaced further apart. This is a map problem that is magnified by low numbers, often to an intolerable level. If I log in and see 3 enemy aircraft active on my country's front in 3 different sectors, I log. I'm sure that's not an uncommon reaction.
Apparently it's seen as not that big of an issue though.
Wiley.
-
I think the issue is low population, not naps.
Maps and population, as well as game play, have a huge bearing on this subject. Naturally the more people participating makes the game play more attractive. The variations on how one wishes to play the game are wide. Low numbers and differing ideas have an impact. We can not tell how someone should play the game. We, back some years ago, had many more people playing on a map. So playing in ones prefered style was easy to find. One could join the win the war folks and take bases or strctly air combat. We could also get involved in the ground war. The Map wasn't such a big deal then. Now since the population has declined one style effects how the other two styles are affected. Say the majority are playing in vehicles, it makes it harder to find an air to air fight. However taking a base fight can combine all three with defense, air to air and a ground fight. Some players do not wish to play that way. Some who want to take a base will just go to another base easier to take. That kills the fight but pleases those who wish to take bases unopposed.
It's a conundrum to be sure. So I also agree with above statements that it is not the map it's the lack of participants. Easier to tly successful bombing missions in the AM US time as compared to the evening when the population is twice as large.
Just a few random thoughts.
I think maps and gameplay opportunities which were mostly designed for a larger population, in combination with low numbers, amplifies the most common complaint found in external reviews of AH: poor and inequitable gameplay. A low-risk approach is now far too supported by the disposition of the MA. The last time I was in (Euro daytime) it was not uncommon to see planes of all and any types diving away and running to ack when encountering any another plane co-e or after a single merge to evaluate if they had advantage or not.
With this architecture, a combat-avoidant, low-risk approach is always advantageous. Higher risk combat-based skill-approach is occasionally advantageous. Thus a trend is set and over time the latter faction has diluted away. Diluted away mostly to other games apparently as air combat is evidently popular. Furthermore challenge is what younger players seek, not ease and certainty. That's a fundamental generational misunderstanding. Projection I think the psychologists call it :)
Congruent, another factor is in play. The quality of ACM has degraded along with the loss of those players. Now for the most part (notable and interesting exceptions aside) you have highly effective players (not highly-skilled players, there's a subtle difference). You can do things and watch their OODA loop on a hair trigger snap to EGRESS. Now take the experiential perspective of a newer player, if you can. One unfamiliar with the specific nuances of the MA which facilitate that approach. That's hard to set aside years of experience and indoctrination to imagine that.
One could take the analogy of a 1970s toaster: underdone, underdone, underdone, burned. That threshold area of 'just right' is far too narrow in the MA. There's two reasons no one buys a 1970's toaster anymore...
All very good points here. I do believe the level of ACM skill has dropped dramatically due to players running to other games that are more suited for quicker air combat. Certain players ruined the "DA" because the ego was just too darn high and it put a lot of people off. Now, no one really goes into the DA to fight or learn ACM, and there isn't a very good place for "free fighting" quick action.
I believe planes like the yak3 did it for many people. Just too big of a nuisance and people are tired of fighting 3 of them at the same time. Along with too many good sticks flying in 262s and run planes.
But I do have to say that because of smaller #s, these 4 maps are actually causing the #s to decrease rather than benefit players so more play during off hours. I believe these maps during off hours are off putting to increasing #s. As I've said, its very time consuming to roll at a base with a tiny red dar and hope to find something to shoot at. When everything is all scattered out, or planes are mostly 15-20k, it's time consuming to reach that alt, and hopefully then find something to shoot. When you die quickly after all of that, you have to make a decision, do I want to sit here and climb another 15k, doing nothing for 5 minutes, and then hope I can find another guy to shoot, or hoping I don't get jumped by 3 20k p51s or 2 yak3s. It's things like that that need to be taken into consideration.
Smaller maps would do wonders at keeping players in the game as it goes into off hours. If you are in a big fight, chances are you will play an extra hour to have fun with it. If there is no big fight like on BowlMA going into off hours, you will probably log off early. This keeps #s lower for some maps going into the off hours than others. This means the dars are much smaller, and many are spread out so that action is not condensed. The biggest reason for smaller maps is that they condense the action and provide a good reason to roll in hopes for a good fight. When there are only 2 bases that are important on the current front, that's where the majority of people are going to fight. If there are 10 bases on the current front, like bowlma, everyone is going to spread all over, and you get small dars everywhere. This is not entertaining to the majority of people, so they don't log in, or they sit in the tower waiting all day until something builds up.
If we can find a way to build #s in the off hours, it will do a lot to increasing the overall #s in the main hours. The best way for that is to have maps that are more suited to lower #s. These maps will go a long way.
Again, especially for players who get that 2 weeks free, they don't want to look at huge maps and wonder where the heck to roll. They want to see bigger dars and cons so they know where the action is. If they have to play the same map for 3 days, and every time they log in, it's small dar all over the place, or seemingly no action on their side of the map, they are probably going to hang it up.
I've just noticed that when I play on the weekends, it's about an 80% chance I will get either BowlMA or CraterMA. I presume the majority of 2 week trials mostly play on the weekends. They are stuck with these huge maps and if they aren't playing prime time, the game looks incredibly boring for them. No since in wasting 20 minutes to fly around in circles hoping to catch 1 plane that you have 0 clue where it is because your radar is down.
I also believe that radars need to be atleast 2K pounds of bombs to be killed. That would tremendously help new players. Players who see tiny dars aren't understanding how many cons there actually are. It just doesn't seem like it's worth it to roll many of times.
Condense the action without 10k mountains to climb over. That is how you build #s again and make the off hours more enjoyable.
-
It's tempting to think the air-combat situation would be improved simply by closing the proximity of bases. That would reduce wasted time but brings with it the caveat that you also increase the possibility of solving any ACM problem by holding a little alt in reserve and using that potential energy to get to safety by legging it (running / egressing).
One possibility to have your cake and eat it would be to use gravity to make a 'one way valve' since WW2 aeroplanes have a relatively low climb rate. Bases above 15k on pedestals would no doube raise complaints of unrealism but would mean once you choose to enter the rumble-in-the-jungle section, there's no simple escape route. More realistic or convincing natural terrain could be something like a large diameter caldera with high cliffs and bases halfway down. Imho a surplus of energy is less of a problem to air combat than people melting away at will. Remember others would enter later at a higher energy state, that's just the nature of it. You could even go crazy and have an inverse Escher-like spiral of descending canyons. Ideally you'd cultivate a nice continual and sustainable slow burn of combat opportunity.
Of course I'm suggesting only a section of the map being landscaped to favour air-combat. I know it's not for everyone. I think I've met most of them :)
Anyway interesting thought. Would be nice if we had a map where a player's $15-o-fun a month did not depend on the exclusive unhappiness of another player's $15-o-misery.
Happy Friday, as Pipz was fond of saying :banana:
-
if we get smaller maps, you would see 2 or 3 of them getting rolled in a day, every day. as for the acm thingy, there's not one player that I know of, from those finishing in the top to the lowest of us who doesnt do everything possible to not get killed. and that includes running to ack or friends.
just spent a few flights in a user arena, had lots of fun. got to try a pony against f4u's, it was interesting, trying to figure out the stall speed against an f4u. pony can outturn an f4u except if he decides to go up.
semp
-
All very good points here. I do believe the level of ACM skill has dropped dramatically due to players running to other games that are more suited for quicker air combat. Certain players ruined the "DA" because the ego was just too darn high and it put a lot of people off. Now, no one really goes into the DA to fight or learn ACM, and there isn't a very good place for "free fighting" quick action.
I believe planes like the yak3 did it for many people. Just too big of a nuisance and people are tired of fighting 3 of them at the same time. Along with too many good sticks flying in 262s and run planes.
There are two other arenas right now where you can go in and fight instantly on a small map.
-
Down with Buzzkill! I log off immediately when I see that map is up.
Has anybody considered a Naval focused maps with land at the far edges of the map?
-
as for the acm thingy, there's not one player that I know of, from those finishing in the top to the lowest of us who doesnt do everything possible to not get killed. and that includes running to ack or friends.
If you encourage a reduction of the former to the minimum, and increase the latter to the maximum in an air combat game, you'd end up with awful gameplay which would likely drive people away. Oh wait...
-
[quote author=nrshida link=topic=402852.msg5338135#msg5338135 date=1619190852
More realistic or convincing natural terrain could be something like a large diameter caldera with high cliffs and bases halfway down. Imho a surplus of energy is less of a problem to air combat than people melting away at will. Remember others would enter later at a higher energy state, that's just the nature of it.
[/quote]
I like this idea. A small map, 256. Outer perimeter at 7500 ft, with everything sloped to a central area at 100 ft. Bases in close proximity, no more than 22 miles apart. The slope to the central area would help focus the combat due to the altitude assistance from the outer areas.
-
If you encourage a reduction of the former to the minimum, and increase the latter to the maximum in an air combat game, you'd end up with awful gameplay which would likely drive people away. Oh wait...
but can you get a consensus on what awful or good game play is?
semp
-
but can you get a consensus on what awful or good game play is?
semp
nrshida is right. Everybody who disagrees with him is wrong. There, that was easy.
Wiley.
-
nrshida is right. Everybody who disagrees with him is wrong. There, that was easy.
Wiley.
naw nishida believes in what he believes, i think different but we both have the same idea in mind. just different paths to it.
semp
-
but can you get a consensus on what awful or good game play is?
Good question Semp if slighlty loaded. You don't need a consensous in an inherently zero sum-game multiplayer combat sim. You need to support all opportunities of gameplay on the frustration-reward line if you aren't to drive preference-factions away. The purely ACM-combat fans clearly have been if you look for independent reviews of AH. Not my opinion. Go and look, you will notice the strong theme of that point (even ex AH-players).
Memory likely won't serve accurately now, and I'm too busy / lazy to bother researching. But I think the Yak-3 was the last fighter aircraft to be introduced. Quite a long time ago. After came the 88-mm, several tanks, the TU-2 maybe? Side-switching was changed (arbitrarily it seemed like) to 24-hours - the protest of which essentailly drove the majority of the Muppets and their kin away. The DA was removed and replaced by something even less popular (about which several informed suggestions were offered and disregarded). Private arenas are possible if you're prepared to dedicate your computer and self to is essentially as they only persist for 20-minutes and no one who doesn't know you will go there alone. There are some events but not on the 24-7 basis of the MMOG. Every suggestion bar one, as far as I can remember, to enhance this aspect of gampeplay rejected and dismissed by both the forum members (a subset of actual players) and the company who runs the game.
All those things in sequence and combination rather points to a bias against the ACM-faction.
nrshida is right. Everybody who disagrees with him is wrong. There, that was easy.
It's a shame I evidently present this way when I post. It ought to be true but apparently isn't that the stronger, more evidenced 'argument' (an echange of diverging or opposite views, not the f**k you, nah f**k you kind of daily life / roadrage argument) should have more weight than weaker arguments or - as in this case for example - ones based on informal fallacy. It's neither here-nor-there who is saying this or that or why they're saying it. The question is do they have a point? Do they evidence their argument?
It is really a weird situation when people like Violator and I are marginalised for being fanatical about prop-driven air-combat in a game entitled Aces High. Waaaaaaay off base to assume we want everyone to play our way on some sort of weird power-trip on our behalf. I don't know about Violator because I think he has limitted time (as now do I actually). But when I was a very active player I have spent an awful lot of time training other players one-on-one with the only motivation to enhance their AH-ACM experience. I had offered this to anyone who asked, even enemies. I fought Robert Shaw in the DA. Bought his book, annotated it, tore sections out and threw it away. Here was the last repository of Prop-driven ACM. Not IL-2, not DCS, not in printed manuals. Here in the hands and eyes of remarkable players. Nearly all gone now.
naw nishida believes in what he believes, i think different but we both have the same idea in mind. just different paths to it.
:salute
I like this idea. A small map, 256. Outer perimeter at 7500 ft, with everything sloped to a central area at 100 ft. Bases in close proximity, no more than 22 miles apart. The slope to the central area would help focus the combat due to the altitude assistance from the outer areas.
Unfortuantely I am not good enough with this medium to make a prototype but I think you very much have the gist. More than 7500-ft would disallow pickers to float around on a top layer and still leave at will.
-
nrshida is right. Everybody who disagrees with him is wrong. There, that was easy.
Wiley.
Typical Wiley, no reading of the points being put forward, just zips straight to the ignorant dismissal and unhelpful remarks.
-
This is the kind of thing I am talking about. Once again, this map is taking up the weekend. Mindnao was on Friday and saturday. I get stick with Bowlma again. It's 4 PM eastern and we've got 73 players in the arena, small dars, and no real fights anwhere. The Bish have 42% of bases and rooks + knights arent even tryin over there. Just 5 or 6 planes over there according to idea of how big of a fight those dars might be over there. I am stuck on the Bish because of their low #s.
(https://i.ibb.co/F5LcXC4/ahss90.png) (https://ibb.co/dPwXtx4)
Here was crater last weekend, nothing going on. I watched it for 4 hours while doing other things to see if I could get into a fight. Just tiny dars..
(https://i.ibb.co/ZWNQj2m/ahss64.png) (https://ibb.co/V23F1wm)
Here is a map that provides much better action where players can get a much better sense of where the fight is and hop in. This is an example of a healthy map during the afternoons.
(https://i.ibb.co/KzDL2xH/ahss65.png) (https://ibb.co/0VKFCy3)
-
I agree with your recent points Violator. Cant we do shock therapy and just try some of the new maps for a few weeks? They will only be up for a day or two.
I know that the players really liked the Fjord map that came out last summer (or maybe it was sometime in 2019), and I enjoy the NorthCo map too. The Fjord map might be too big for current numbers, but I remember signing on for that day and our Country chat (Knights) was quite happy with the new map
-
Typical Wiley, no reading of the points being put forward, just zips straight to the ignorant dismissal and unhelpful remarks.
Nah. He not wrong a lot of the time, he just couches that correctness in a giant ball of condescension and bemoaning of the current sorry state of players that he deigns to grace with his words of wisdom.
It is very important that we all know how great he is at ACM with every post he makes and how lowly the average player in the MA is. He went to the DA with Shaw. Be impressed! He knew which chapters of the book to throw away. Be impressed!
Effective vs skilled is dead on. I wasn't thinking of it in as many words but he articulated what I have thought for a while very well.
Personally, in a melee arena I am looking for opponents that are actually trying to kill me. I happen to agree with most of Violator's points particularly his last post. But the vast majority of players simply aren't trying to outskill their opponents, they are trying to win. You're not going to change that mentality any more than you are going to change the mentality of a player that flies to live.
People for a myriad of reasons simply aren't going to put in the work to get to the top shelf level of skill in a game that is as open ended as this one. You can either accept that or move on. Until the game absolutely forces people to fight fair, a lot aren't.
Wiley.
-
Fight fair?
Does that mean you have to - an A6M with a 262?
That's the thing I fail to understand. People fly slow planes and call everyone in a faster plane cowards, runner whatever.
-
Nah. He not wrong a lot of the time, he just couches that correctness in a giant ball of condescension and bemoaning of the current sorry state of players that he deigns to grace with his words of wisdom.
It is very important that we all know how great he is at ACM with every post he makes and how lowly the average player in the MA is. He went to the DA with Shaw. Be impressed! He knew which chapters of the book to throw away. Be impressed!
You forgot that he threw away the parts of Shaw's book that he didn't like. Poor Shaw, he had so much to learn...
We suffer from the impersonality of the internet. I'll bet that if we met NrShida - not to mention TinyShida - we'd probably like each other and have fun drinking various alcoholic treats. (Well...maybe not TinyShida...). But Wiley's interpretation of the Shida BBS input is not off base.
- oldman
-
You forgot that he threw away the parts of Shaw's book that he didn't like. Poor Shaw, he had so much to learn...
We suffer from the impersonality of the internet. I'll bet that if we met NrShida - not to mention TinyShida - we'd probably like each other and have fun drinking various alcoholic treats. (Well...maybe not TinyShida...). But Wiley's interpretation of the Shida BBS input is not off base.
- oldman
Hehe. Could be. I have also known guys that sounded IRL pretty much exactly like Shida does in text. ;)
Wiley.
-
I will say that I have logged on many times and logged right back off after looking at the map. As someone else pointed out (I think Fugitive), the low numbers just makes several of these maps stale. As summer approaches, I will be considering spending more time on AH while my other gaming buddies are all at work. I guess I need to start learning how to make my own fun again. 😂😂. Heck, most of the time I find myself flying in the training arena by myself.
-
Shaw's book is mostly irrelevant for AcesHigh, and one of the fastest ways to get yourself a repeat ticket to the tower :old:.
-
Shaw's book is mostly irrelevant for AcesHigh, and one of the fastest ways to get yourself a repeat ticket to the tower :old:.
Could be. I've never read it. Should we be impressed? ;)
Wiley.
-
I will say that I have logged on many times and logged right back off after looking at the map. As someone else pointed out (I think Fugitive), the low numbers just makes several of these maps stale. As summer approaches, I will be considering spending more time on AH while my other gaming buddies are all at work. I guess I need to start learning how to make my own fun again. 😂😂. Heck, most of the time I find myself flying in the training arena by myself.
I normally have Halo or another game running at the same time I have AH running. I will check to see what fights are going on. If there are any, I will roll and join the fight, if not, I'll play Halo and recheck the MA after the match. The past couple of weekends, I've been sitting the tower for up to 3-5 hours waiting for a good fight to pop in the afternoons. These big map that end up taking over the weekends are really causing some poor gameplay during off hours.
Yesterday, I was stuck with bowlMA again sat around for 2 hours while playing Halo. I was on the bish side with 42% of bases. I had auto switch on. The fight finally got going a little bit we had about 6 cons on each team. I rolled, had a decent sortie. Then It auto switched me to Knights. I had just told my squadie to switch to Bish for this fight that was looking big (finally!) (Bad decision though). So now I had to take off auto switch and switch back to Bish to rejoin him. Now we are both stuck on Bish. We roll for the sortie. All of the sudden the fight just dies out of no where. We are flying around for 20 minutes to 2 enemy bases on the island and there is no one to shoot any more. We RTB and land with nothing. All we saw was a 20k p51 that was too timid to dance. So just like that, the fight was over and we are stuck. We rolled to go jabo a base with some friendlies and we died pretty quickly screwing around. At this point our team was in full control with the hoard. There was really nothing much else to do. We took a break, and i had to log off after another 20 minutes. It appeared the fight was better on the other side of the map, but can't really tell with only 1 red dar. So I brought my squadie over for a good fight. And ended up kinda screwing him for another 6 hours of 0 fights where the bish only had 1 island they there hoarding to get bases back.
This is just kind of my frustration right now with these maps and the playability of them for most of the day.
-
Sometimes in slower periods even going auto assigned does not provide the fight you think it should
I was thinking if I just wanted to fly around I should log into IL2 or DCS as they are prettier
This is even more reason for events like last Friday night and MNM
Eagler
-
I was thinking if I just wanted to fly around I should log into IL2 or DCS as they are prettier
I downloaded DCS yesterday. Gonna give it a try tonight!
-
violator were you having fun in helo? my guess you weren't. did you post anything on helo bb about how to improve gameplay?
semp
-
Yes you’re right I tend to be condescending in text (maybe in general, shrug) towards players who fully exploit the MA’s facilities to avoid fair combat and risk, even if it is (was) damaging to the game and player-base, driving others away. Just boils my piss.
About my Robert Shaw anecdote: I met him in the DA, then bought his book, then worked through it annotating with further study and disregarding sections until eventually discarding it. From this a couple of you seem to have read: I deluded myself that I took him to the DA, schooled him on how Top Gun and Newtonian physics was all wrong, tore out sections of his book and used it for toilet paper before having a fake Iron Cross fashioned for myself out of a Mercedes 190 sump-plug so I'd look good in my next Photoshopped self-portraits. Wow. And you guys are entirely without fault.
None of my activities in game reflect the personality you are trying to paint me as. Even in this thread I was trying to contribute a constructive thought before you decided you didn't like my tone. If I could get a fight as fast in the MA as I can on the forums...
That anecdote was intended to illustrate how anyone, who’s willing to do the work, can get very good in the frame of reference of the title ‘Aces High’ and how this was the case to the point that some players were doing stuff not even in the reference texts.
I’m bemoaning the loss of that knowledge and activity on a community-wide level, including myself in that community (not above it) and my possibility to continue. Refer to my signature which has been untouched for several years and I meant it.
Violator is bemoaning the fact that he can't apply the leverage of his superior ACM against weaker opponents at a higher hourly rate (although I do like him).
Funny old world.
-
Yes you’re right I tend to be condescending in text (maybe in general, shrug) towards players who fully exploit the MA’s facilities to avoid fair combat and risk, even if it is (was) damaging to the game and player-base, driving others away. Just boils my piss.
And then in the next breath, you allegedly don't want people to "play your way"... Do you not see the issue there?
About my Robert Shaw anecdote: I met him in the DA, then bought his book, then worked through it annotating with further study and disregarding sections until eventually discarding it. From this a couple of you seem to have read: I deluded myself that I took him to the DA, schooled him on how Top Gun and Newtonian physics was all wrong, tore out sections of his book and used it for toilet paper before having a fake Iron Cross fashioned for myself out of a Mercedes 190 sump-plug so I'd look good in my next Photoshopped self-portraits. Wow. And you guys are entirely without fault.
LOL bit defensive over that, eh? I said none of what you're stating, I am simply responding to what your actual statements were and the underlying tone with which they were given.
None of my activities in game reflect the personality you are trying to paint me as. Even in this thread I was trying to contribute a constructive thought before you decided you didn't like my tone. If I could get a fight as fast in the MA as I can on the forums...
And you make certain with every single post to mention it. You even help people on the enemy teams! What a benificent, giving person you are!!!
That anecdote was intended to illustrate how anyone, who’s willing to do the work, can get very good in the frame of reference of the title ‘Aces High’ and how this was the case to the point that some players were doing stuff not even in the reference texts.
I’m bemoaning the loss of that knowledge and activity on a community-wide level, including myself in that community (not above it) and my possibility to continue. Refer to my signature which has been untouched for several years and I meant it.
Violator is bemoaning the fact that he can't apply the leverage of his superior ACM against weaker opponents at a higher hourly rate (although I do like him).
Funny old world.
From the first time a person starts playing a game, a timer starts counting down. The timer is longer or shorter for different individuals, but eventually everybody's reaches zero and they stop playing it. Compared to most other games, this one keeps some people for an astoundingly long time.
The game mechanics aren't helping, but most of the issue is the average rank and file players simply aren't interested in training to become a top 5%er, regardless of how the game works. The game used to be filled with aviation enthusiasts. It's now filled with gamers who want to win.
Wiley.
-
I downloaded DCS yesterday. Gonna give it a try tonight!
It's a fun game for sure.
-
Violator is bemoaning the fact that he can't apply the leverage of his superior ACM against weaker opponents at a higher hourly rate (although I do like him).
Funny old world.
I'm bemoaning that fact for everyone. By having maps that are too scattered with action, it creates a lack of air combat density, this lack of air combat density becomes a detriment for the majority of players trying to get into some air combat action. Ie, they have 1 hour to play the game, can they find the action they desire, or will they find another game that provides that action at a better rate? When these outdated maps become more prevalent during the weekends because of "time it takes to win map". This can cause a major decrease in players who are tired of playing that map when they only get to play on the weekends, these maps only have combat density in the prime time hours if we are lucky. Just measure the average #s of players on the weekend compared to what map is up. It is clearly blatant and obvious to me.
This goes to a previous post I made before. When you increase the K/H for most players, the #s overall will increase due to action density. People want action density. Spread out small dars is not what people want. The Map makes all of the difference. The fights make all of the difference.
-
I'm bemoaning that fact for everyone. By having maps that are too scattered with action, it creates a lack of air combat density, this lack of air combat density becomes a detriment for the majority of players trying to get into some air combat action. Ie, they have 1 hour to play the game, can they find the action they desire, or will they find another game that provides that action at a better rate? When these outdated maps become more prevalent during the weekends because of "time it takes to win map". This can cause a major decrease in players who are tired of playing that map when they only get to play on the weekends, these maps only have combat density in the prime time hours if we are lucky. Just measure the average #s of players on the weekend compared to what map is up. It is clearly blatant and obvious to me.
This goes to a previous post I made before. When you increase the K/H for most players, the #s overall will increase due to action density. People want action density. Spread out small dars is not what people want. The Map makes all of the difference. The fights make all of the difference.
"I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead, burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL."
:devil
-
so now violator proposes a never ending horde because that's what people want. interesting.
semp
-
snip
Should we be impressed? ;)
I don't think anyone you have posed that question to has at one point tried to impress anyone. I certainly have not read that particular tone in other posts.
-
so now violator proposes a never ending horde because that's what people want. interesting.
semp
Better than no fight at all.....maps with good and shorter base layouts create less hoarding because it's faster to defend from a back field..maps with far distance fields create the biggest hoards, thats one reason I don't like Mindnao and even smpizza even though they are smaller, the same for bases on buzzsaw. The back fields are too far to defend from.
-
How far is "too far" to fly to an adjacent base? 16 miles, 20 miles, 30 miles????? What altitude do you "have to be" to engage?? Maybe hangers need to be set at 4500 lbs. instead of 3000 lbs. ord bunkers at 1500 lbs, and dar at 1000 lbs.. You tell me. I'm not a fighter pilot, but it seems that when you cap a base and start vulching, or you have some one "picking", those kill fights.
-
Better than no fight at all.....maps with good and shorter base layouts create less hoarding because it's faster to defend from a back field..maps with far distance fields create the biggest hoards, thats one reason I don't like Mindnao and even smpizza even though they are smaller, the same for bases on buzzsaw. The back fields are too far to defend from.
so, I imagine more players will join for a never ending furball. meanwhile we get rid of the base takers, tankers and bombers.
I hate buzzsaw and some of the other small maps but for different reasons. strats are always down, and all action is mostly in the center. but when i play for some reason, players are having fun there.
and based on the number of kills, looks like they enjoy it.
so I go somewhere else and start making my own fun. god forbid I'm forced to do that.
used to take 3 or 4 bases at night, by myself or with the help of another. now I can't even take one because them dweeb bombs me. the nerve of some people.
so going back to the question, which players do you want to get rid of?
semp
-
Do you not see the issue there?
I do. I see that regardless of how sincerely and honestly you try to explain your position on this forum there's always going to be people who are only able or willing to interpret the discussion through a giant ball of preprejudice, couched in a layer of trolling.
I do not want anyone to play my way, that's your (and other's) uninformed prejudice talking. That would be counter-productive for me. I want players to be less insulated from risk and less able to avoid combat in the MA because it's bad for equitable gameplay in a combat simulator and makes people quit prematurely or simply stay away in the first place. Apart from ignoring those who'd rather take issue with my tone than my content I don't see the merit or even possibility of further discussion.
so going back to the question, which players do you want to get rid of?
Blade, DustySky and 55Bear. They take from the game only selfishly with no reasonable contribution to anyone else's gameplay experience.
-
I do not want anyone to play my way, ... I want players to be less insulated from risk and less able to avoid combat in the MA because it's bad for equitable gameplay in a combat simulator and makes people quit prematurely or simply stay away in the first place. Apart from ignoring those who'd rather take issue with my tone than my content I don't see the merit or even possibility of further discussion.
So you don't want them to play your way, you just want them to change their behavior.
Regardless, as is always the case with these threads, it's been beaten into the ground ad nauseum for years making the same points, but maybe this will be the thread that changes his mind!
Wiley.
-
I do. I see that regardless of how sincerely and honestly you try to explain your position on this forum there's always going to be people who are only able or willing to interpret the discussion through a giant ball of preprejudice, couched in a layer of trolling.
I do not want anyone to play my way, that's your (and other's) uninformed prejudice talking. That would be counter-productive for me. I want players to be less insulated from risk and less able to avoid combat in the MA because it's bad for equitable gameplay in a combat simulator and makes people quit prematurely or simply stay away in the first place. Apart from ignoring those who'd rather take issue with my tone than my content I don't see the merit or even possibility of further discussion.
Blade, DustySky and 55Bear. They take from the game only selfishly with no reasonable contribution to anyone else's gameplay experience.
wow, so you want to change to 3 bases and a map that is so small nobody would play because of 3 players. and yet I dont recall seeing any of them in the last month or 2. :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
semp
-
What a lot of you think a furball is, is usually a good fight for a base.
IE, people are defending it. I fly the auto switch feature, and currently targets for each country consist of the one of least resistance.
-
wow, so you want to change to 3 bases and a map that is so small nobody would play because of 3 players. and yet I dont recall seeing any of them in the last month or 2. :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
semp
Even I can see he answered your own direct question, nothing more; "which players do you want to get rid of?".
Did almost everyone on this forum snort glue and kill brain cells in the last few months or does covid19 cause brain damage?
-
Blade, DustySky and 55Bear. They take from the game only selfishly with no reasonable contribution to anyone else's gameplay experience.
Not sure what that is but I think I should be included here lol
Eagler
-
Not sure what that is but I think I should be included here lol
Eagler
Negatory.....
You provide me entertainment when I am in the game in MNM and KOTH, hehe
-
So you don't want them to play your way, you just want them to change their behavior.
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0dnDGKk/theres-no-problem-with-aces-high-thats-why-its-so-popular.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img831/5780/1053175781.gif) (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img191/8443/crazy6.gif)
-
so, I imagine more players will join for a never ending furball. meanwhile we get rid of the base takers, tankers and bombers.
I hate buzzsaw and some of the other small maps but for different reasons. strats are always down, and all action is mostly in the center. but when i play for some reason, players are having fun there.
and based on the number of kills, looks like they enjoy it.
so I go somewhere else and start making my own fun. god forbid I'm forced to do that.
used to take 3 or 4 bases at night, by myself or with the help of another. now I can't even take one because them dweeb bombs me. the nerve of some people.
so going back to the question, which players do you want to get rid of?
semp
It sounds like you just want to play by yourself or with one other and take bases by yourself. If one player takes bases by themselves, that's not healthy for the game, IMO. That seems like a more selfish approach than my idea. Like lazer said, bigger battles get started because of offense and defense and choke points. No one wants the MA to turn into 3 bases on each side. They just want bigger battles to be apart of by condensing the action. You can still find a non used base on any map and fly bombers, get alt, and go bomb stuff. If you are afraid of someone climbing out to attack you, it seems like you are intending to play the game all by yourself with as little resistance as possible. To me, that is not an overall winning strategy for Hitech as you are the outlier to what most of air combat enthusiasts want. You want to play by yourself while effecting the map for others without any resistance. That is lame gameplay to me.
I logged into the MA yesterday. BowlMA was still up, the bish got all their bases back from 42% the night before. There were 75 players on at 11 PM est - 8PM pacific. It looked like nothing was going on. I saw a few small dars scattered around. Other than that, looked extremely boring so i logged to go play Halo. That's exactly what most of the players have done.
It seems like we have already gotten rid of the players who are in it for a good fight. That leaves loners who want ton play by themselves which is the far minority if you ask me.
-
It seems like we have already gotten rid of the players who are in it for a good fight. That leaves loners who want ton play by themselves which is the far minority if you ask me.
Oddly enough, I've had no trouble finding good fights. I was on last night about an hour before you were. I believe there were about 120-140 people in the MA at the time, evenly divided (thanks to everyone who uses the side-balancing feature!). I was eagerly engaged by any number of people during the half hour I was on. Some were vets I've known for years, but quite a few were names new to me. I doubt that we'll ever again see the 600+ numbers of years gone by, but there are fun fights available at this level of participation.
- oldman
-
Oddly enough, I've had no trouble finding good fights. I was on last night about an hour before you were. I believe there were about 120-140 people in the MA at the time, evenly divided (thanks to everyone who uses the side-balancing feature!). I was eagerly engaged by any number of people during the half hour I was on. Some were vets I've known for years, but quite a few were names new to me. I doubt that we'll ever again see the 600+ numbers of years gone by, but there are fun fights available at this level of participation.
- oldman
During prime time the #s are okay and generally the fights are decent for one side of the map, sometimes both depending on the map. But once the off hours hit. The action greatly depends on the map. I think finding ways to increase the afternoon #s is a good start and I believe the map 100% determines the actionability. We are stuck playing the same 4 maps every weekend, generally, and it's becoming stale. When there are 60 players on at 1PM est on Sat or Sunday, and a couple of small dars on bowlMA. The majority of people just aren't gonna stick around to fly in circles hoping to find one guy to shoot at in a 15 minute sortie. Increasing the afternoon #s with better maps will increase the overall #s and bring back enthusiasm.
-
During prime time the #s are okay and generally the fights are decent for one side of the map, sometimes both depending on the map. But once the off hours hit. The action greatly depends on the map. I think finding ways to increase the afternoon #s is a good start and I believe the map 100% determines the actionability. We are stuck playing the same 4 maps every weekend, generally, and it's becoming stale. When there are 60 players on at 1PM est on Sat or Sunday, and a couple of small dars on bowlMA. The majority of people just aren't gonna stick around to fly in circles hoping to find one guy to shoot at in a 15 minute sortie. Increasing the afternoon #s with better maps will increase the overall #s and bring back enthusiasm.
Regardless of map, when do you ever see a decent fight during off-peak times? Anytime I log in in the morning or afternoon, it is nothing but 3 planes up on a side regardless of map. If the other maps are good enough, why aren't there more A2A fights when they're up?
Wiley.
-
wow, so you want to change to 3 bases and a map that is so small nobody would play because of 3 players. and yet I dont recall seeing any of them in the last month or 2. :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
semp
Just FYI those players I’ve seen on recently.
I don’t have any opinion about their gameplay though...
-
Even I can see he answered your own direct question, nothing more; "which players do you want to get rid of?".
Did almost everyone on this forum snort glue and kill brain cells in the last few months or does covid19 cause brain damage?
i wasnt asking names but groups. the base takers, the bombers, the tankers...
semp
-
I was at one base for over an hour the other night and did not know or realize the size or layout of the map as I was focused on the fight. Maybe stop blaming the maps and figure out why there aren't more subs. A super duper perfect map is useless when empty.
Is this a niche game? Not good for the short attention span of today's gamers? Hitech tried to develop AH Pacific for those reasons but we may be soon a small group of Vaudeville actors staring into the mirror wondering where our career has gone.
But If you google WW2 fighter games you see plenty of content, just not this one. I found this game by an ad on the History channel and if you want to sell widgets you need to advertise widgets.
HTC has said he does not get the return on the cost of advertising. It was a different market back when AH came out and now with so much competition you would really have to have some deep pockets to compete with their advertising. Sad because this game has so much potential and if we had the 2007 numbers with the game we have now, there would be no competition.
-
Actually, thinking about it a bit further, during non prime time regardless of map, by what I've seen, there's roughly about 3 planes in the air per side at any given time. They're generally in 9 different sectors and most of them not interested in finding the other 8. How small do we need to make the map to condense that into an area where there'll be a fight?
Wiley.
-
Actually, thinking about it a bit further, during non prime time regardless of map, by what I've seen, there's roughly about 3 planes in the air per side at any given time. They're generally in 9 different sectors and most of them not interested in finding the other 8. How small do we need to make the map to condense that into an area where there'll be a fight?
Wiley.
oh they find you alright. we got a few yesterday trying to sneak bases. they did the same to us.
think they're was like 2 per side.
semp
-
I was at one base for over an hour the other night and did not know or realize the size or layout of the map as I was focused on the fight. Maybe stop blaming the maps and figure out why there aren't more subs. A super duper perfect map is useless when empty.
Is this a niche game? Not good for the short attention span of today's gamers? Hitech tried to develop AH Pacific for those reasons but we may be soon a small group of Vaudeville actors staring into the mirror wondering where our career has gone.
But If you google WW2 fighter games you see plenty of content, just not this one. I found this game by an ad on the History channel and if you want to sell widgets you need to advertise widgets.
HTC has said he does not get the return on the cost of advertising. It was a different market back when AH came out and now with so much competition you would really have to have some deep pockets to compete with their advertising. Sad because this game has so much potential and if we had the 2007 numbers with the game we have now, there would be no competition.
There aren't more subs Slade because no new player knows where the hell they are supoose to be and see a gazillion bases with a couple of tiny small dars scattered all over the place. And they are sitting there "what the heck are those"? :headscratch:
Actually, thinking about it a bit further, during non prime time regardless of map, by what I've seen, there's roughly about 3 planes in the air per side at any given time. They're generally in 9 different sectors and most of them not interested in finding the other 8. How small do we need to make the map to condense that into an area where there'll be a fight?
Wiley.
Yall should refer to my post on page 4 detailing what "action" looks like in the afternoon on certain maps, and I gave an example of a somewhat healthy looking map at around 1pm PST. You can clearly notice a difference.
Certain maps attract more players to the arena earlier and keeps them on later because there is more condensed action. It's a fact, and removing some older maps and replacing them with some of these new ones. Would go a long way to getting more subs. I can guarantee it.
-
lol I think you guys have beat this dead horse to a greasy spot. Remember if you miss the game enough, pretty soon you don't miss the game. Stay active and positive. :cheers:
-
lol I think you guys have beat this dead horse to a greasy spot. Remember if you miss the game enough, pretty soon you don't miss the game. Stay active and positive. :cheers:
BowlMA has been up for the entire week. 6 days now. Thats not good. It's a horse that needs to be beat. I log in this morning to 0 action once again. I'm just tired of it... :mad:
-
2nd that
The timeout for a non won map is 7 days so I am told
I think it should be 48, 72 hrs max
Variety is the spice of life
Eagler
-
2nd that
The timeout for a non won map is 7 days so I am told
I think it should be 48, 72 hrs max
Variety is the spice of life
Eagler
I agree ☝️
-
2nd that
The timeout for a non won map is 7 days so I am told
I think it should be 48, 72 hrs max
Variety is the spice of life
Eagler
Yeah, so BowlMA gets timed out after 7 days. SMpizza comes on at 4pm yesterday. SMpizza lasts for not even 15 hours. Woke up today and we are back to CraterMA, which will stay up for another 3 days probably. 35 players on at 12PM est... sigh.
So I agree with you Eagler, 48 max is a good time limit. These big maps just aren't producing engaging fights for the majority of the day, and it hurts. I'm sure people would love to fly on some of the newer AH maps, which are better designed for engagement.
-
so you want small maps, then complained because a small map gets rolled in hours, so you want more small maps. yeah let's get maps that get rolled every 2 hours, that should make the game fun.
semp
-
I just need one plane/ pilot who is willing to turn and fight me when we meet regardless of altitude and plane type.
If that can be accomplished without having to fly 2 to 3 sectors a sortie, my limited time in AH at that time will be enjoyable regardless of who wins the a2a engagement
If it is a vh killing 51 or 190 that does nothing but jabo and run back to base, ack or buddy horde, my time in AH will stink.
Change maps keeps at least that part of the game fresh
Eagler
-
"You can't please everyone, so you just got to please yourself" so the song goes. :banana:
-
so you want small maps, then complained because a small map gets rolled in hours, so you want more small maps. yeah let's get maps that get rolled every 2 hours, that should make the game fun.
semp
Maps that get rolled at 4am by the Jokers are fine. One map a day is fine. It allows the other maps to get some notice. Maps that stay up for days do not attract more players. I actually think it's better if the current players on think they have a chance at winning. There is just an embalance with too many large Maps that are horrible for off hours play. Even during primetime last night. We were at a pretty low count of 115 players. 33 on the bish was the low side. Knights and rooks had 43 each. I was stuck ton bish and could not switch. No one was fighting Bish. We had a few bombers up and a few guys attacking a GV field. That was it. No action for the bish. I logged, not worth my time to play Microsoft flight simulator in a combat game.. the other side of the map looked decent, but I wasn't going to spend all afternoon flying 6 sectors.
Sorry semp, but the majority of the players aren't interested in playing by themselves.
I'm just at a point where flying the same 4 Maps every weekend is getting very old and boring. Which is why i made this thread.
-
I wonder if the way to fix it might be to institute a minimum time, say 24 hours, where if you roll the map it resets to the same map. After the 24 hours is up, the next roll changes it? Couple that with a max time of 3 days or so, would keep the stagnant maps moving and let people see some of the other maps. Like Violator, I feel like I only ever see the stagnant maps because the morning crew rolls the others in hours.
With some of the maps it will turn into "How many times can we roll this in a day", but is that really a problem?
Wiley.
-
What happens when a map times out now in the 7 days?
Does the side with the most bases "win" something? Perks?
They should so there are perks to be won if the map switches before one sides captures enough bases to make the map switch automatically
I guess the difference to me is the fight regardless who wins while others have to win at all costs even if that "win" is rolling enough empty bases during slow time to win that map
Eagler
-
Welp, we had bowlMA and Mindnao take over the weekend once again. I bet you that is the 6th time in 2 months... craterMA took over the other 2 weekends. BowlMA got timed out the weekend before after 7 days, then by the next weekend, we are back to it...
It's just getting old for us who normally can only play on the weekends. The #s are suffering on the weekends because of it. I can clearly tell. Instead of 160 players, we are seeing 120 or even <100 for most of the day.
Do your tests and you will see.
-
It's just getting old for us who normally can only play on the weekends. The #s are suffering on the weekends because of it. I can clearly tell. Instead of 160 players, we are seeing 120 or even <100 for most of the day.
Do your tests and you will see.
Respectfully, it's summer now. That's about the usual winter-summer drop. Still think the max time should be 4-5 days so a map doesn't screw up Sunday through Saturday.
Wiley.
-
Time out to swap out a map should be 2 days top
Eagler
-
Respectfully, it's summer now. That's about the usual winter-summer drop. Still think the max time should be 4-5 days so a map doesn't screw up Sunday through Saturday.
Wiley.
Time out to swap out a map should be 2 days top
Eagler
Yeah I hear you. I think 2-3 days tops is long enough. Last month was one of the worst on record in terms of plane stats. WAY lower than last April. I believe it's because of the same maps taking over the weekend causing slow boring small fight gameplay for most of the day.
-
Yeah I hear you. I think 2-3 days tops is long enough. Last month was one of the worst on record in terms of plane stats. WAY lower than last April. I believe it's because of the same maps taking over the weekend causing slow boring small fight gameplay for most of the day.
2 or 3 days is reasonable :cheers:
semp
-
2 or 3 days would be good.
I will log in and stay for a while to see if there are any fights. But usually gone in 1/2 hour on these giant maps with low numbers on. Sun. night prime time was the pizza map with 72 players. Just not worth it. :cheers:
-
All maps should be timed and changed every 48 hours in the name of keeping game play interesting and challenging.
If the base humpers can't win it in 2 days they can try harder on the next map
When did the best a2a game turn into a whinny ground base capturing game?
The map should insure great air battles first with base capturing 2nd IMO.
Eagler
-
Base capturing insuring great air battles and GV battles would be ideal imo. How, other than players/squads promoting it, I claim to have no idea. But I agree with the map issue and came to the same conclusion as Frodo with exception that I determined it wasn't worth my money along with not being worth my time. Hopeful someday that will change but it seems things are trending the other way.
-
All this whining about gv's, base taker's, and map rotation, you conveniently ignore the pickers, the vulchers and the rammers. :rofl
I don't have any problem with a map rotation cycle that is reasonable, but 2 days is not long enough, and 7 days is too long. So I'll just compromise and say 4 days.
Just to set the record straight, the long map duration's are EVERY ONES fault. Every country try's to Beat Down, the other countries, Bish, Knit, & Rook, instead of trying to roll the map. Bish did it Monday, the morning crew just would NOT stop taking knit bases, even though we had well over 33% of their bases and 3% of rook bases. I finally logged, just tired of the BS. Of course the next time it happens to us (bish), we'll whine about being double teamed.
I doubt we'll see Hitech do anything about it, beyond map duration's. If Peanuts is right and Hitech Creations is down to a 1 man operation, its not likely we'll see any significant changes to the game, beyond minor code updates/changes.
All this having be said, I still LOVE the game, and I see my playing the game till the Lord calls me home, or it is finally shut down.
There enough rambling, to all :salute
-
I would think if it is coded to swap put a map in 7 days, it wouldn't take much to change it to a 2 or 4 day swap
Eagler
-
I would think if it is coded to swap put a map in 7 days, it wouldn't take much to change it to a 2 or 4 day swap
Eagler
If I not mistaken, it is an Arena Setting.
-
I want Kenai's and KONGS's new maps and I want them now!
I'll fly down to Texas to protest!
-
How about a 3 day period for all maps? If they get rolled in 6 hours then it would reset each country to a different location on the same map.
If the map only has 6 hours or less left when it’s won (2.75 days) then it proceeds to the next map.
This way the maps many people love that get rolled fast stay up longer and the maps that many people loathe being up for a week (give or take) don’t stay up as long...
A fair balance?
:salute
-
How about a 3 day period for all maps? If they get rolled in 6 hours then it would reset each country to a different location on the same map.
If the map only has 6 hours or less left when it’s won (2.75 days) then it proceeds to the next map.
This way the maps many people love that get rolled fast stay up longer and the maps that many people loathe being up for a week (give or take) don’t stay up as long...
A fair balance?
:salute
I hear you, but the game is better off just getting rid of these 4 maps all together and making the time the maps stays up to 3 days max. These maps constitently come on during the weekends when the largest target market is playing. This is creating lower #s during the weekend because there are smaller fights. Smaller fights create boring game play so many people go look for more actionable games. When there is a decent new age map up, you can clearly see it in the #s especially going later into the night. When the same boring huge slow map is up for multiple days. You can easily see the #s stagnate per day that it's up.
You can cleary see it in the plane stats for the month. Look at this May and this April plane stats compared to last year. These 2 months were filled with these 4 maps on the weekends 6 out of the 8 weeks. Thats why I got fed up and made this post. There is no question about it to me. It's unfortunate how completely arrogant some people are about this situation. It boggles my mind that some cannot see the correlation.
Maps that have super far bases, promote high alt fights like Mindnao and Buzzsaw, and huge fronts like BowlMA with 15 bases to attack, are a detriment to the fights and overall game. BowlMA and CraterMA during off hours are ridiculous and the stats prove it.
-
violator, like I asked you in the other thread. which maps have been up on the weekend since January.
semp
-
violator, like I asked you in the other thread. which maps have been up on the weekend since January.
semp
Read my first post. You can also go and look up the monthly plane kill stats.
-
Read my first post. You can also go and look up the monthly plane kill stats.
your first post in 2007 is about getting discod. as for the stats, just would like to know how many big maps have been on the weekend you claim to have analized.
semp
-
your first post in 2007 is about getting discod. as for the stats, just would like to know how many big maps have been on the weekend you claim to have analized.
semp
analized is spelled right for this thread!
-
your first post in 2007 is about getting discod. as for the stats, just would like to know how many big maps have been on the weekend you claim to have analized.
semp
Yes, 15 years ago, wow. You can clearly see my improved typing skills :D. Crazy what going to college and typing a ton of papers will do. Still suck at grammar though. :rofl (that's why I'm a #s guy).
Amazing how yall still don't think I know what I am talking about after all of these years of being a pretty strong fighter pilot whose flew with 4 or 5 top of the line squads now, but I digress. It's one of the few places where skill and time played have little authoritative reasoning on why the fights have gotten smaller and smaller. Still can't figure that out.
Unfortunately, I did not document the maps that were up and the #s. However i have posted a few pics.. Once I get my new computer. I'll do that for the next 3 months and document the maps, time, and #s of players during that time. I will post pics of the maps as well during those time.
I promise you that you will see a trend. There is a reason why I made this thread and it should seriously be looked at.