General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: lunaticfringe on March 14, 2020, 02:00:49 PM
Title: P51's
Post by: lunaticfringe on March 14, 2020, 02:00:49 PM
i have a question-if anyone knows--in real life while in flight in battle would a P51 engine get hot or lockup from overheating in a dogfight with or without wep. like i'm pretty sure if sitting on the runway idling may overheat the engine-true or false.
like in AH you can run you're wep out but the engine dose not blow or burn up-but in war thunder it doe's, actually the wep don't have to be on.
so in real life can you lose engine with high rpm-high speed dog fighting?
OH CRAP I POSTED THIS IN WRONG FORUM
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: toasted on March 14, 2020, 03:19:05 PM
the answer would be yes, you could in real life overheat or destroy a real p-51 engine. but modeling it in ah3 would just increase pilot workloads.
part of the charm of ah3 for a lot of people is that you dont have to micromanage the engine, especially the cooling systems.
if your interested in the real p-51s limits, here is the original pilot training manual > it should answer most any question you would have i think. https://www.scribd.com/doc/34811808/North-American-P-51-Mustang-Pilot-Training-Manual
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: TyFoo on March 14, 2020, 05:11:31 PM
Piston aircraft had/ have minimum airspeeds they must maintain within specific power settings so the engine receives the proper amount of airflow over the block to aid in cooling during high power settings such as a climb to altitude, or a Dogfight etc.
Shock cooling - rapidly pulling the power back after high power settings could crack a cylinder or the block itself leading to a significant power decrease, or engine failure. But the P51 was liquid cooled which reduced that problem.
If you climb at slower airspeeds than what’s recommended while maintaining high manifold pressures (high power setting) you could easily overheat an engine. Especially Supercharged or Turbo charged motors.
I don’t remember off hand, but I thought I read that WEP on the P51 was for emergency use only, and had a time limit of (x) hours before a tear down/ inspection was required.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Bruv119 on March 15, 2020, 12:19:55 PM
chucks guides are the best,
fantastic information source in regards to the operation of the P51D.
the answer would be yes, you could in real life overheat or destroy a real p-51 engine. but modeling it in ah3 would just increase pilot workloads.
part of the charm of ah3 for a lot of people is that you dont have to micromanage the engine, especially the cooling systems.
Adding engine management would also mean that you have to do a lot of extra study to switch planes. Part of the charm of Aces High is we get to fly the airplanes without the "overhead".
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: bustr on March 18, 2020, 03:57:16 PM
The merlin company tested a merlin 66 on a test stand at WEP for 200 hours. When they took it apart they found micro cracking in the bearings. An R2800 was run at WEP for 8 hours on a stand then put in a test P47 to finish it's 110hour combat life span with no problems.
WEP limitations for engines that don't rely on a fluid reservoir like radials and German in-lines are to extend the usable combat life span of the engine and reduce maintenance.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: SmokinLoon on April 13, 2020, 10:51:11 AM
Yes indeed. In the real world the pilot had to manage the engine and it was not easy. In AH the players can go full throttle all of the time and use WEP to the max without any repercussions.
If you study up and really research you'll see that aircraft in WW2 didn't fly with full throttle but only when they had to. Bombers in AH bomb at full speed, in the real world, at least in the south PTO, B24's bombed while moving at 220 TAS, or there about depending on weather and viability. Sometimes slower sometimes faster. Fighters wouldn't buzz around the skies with the throttle pushed all the way forward either for numerous reasons including not over stressing/over heating the engine.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Puma44 on April 13, 2020, 11:53:26 AM
i have a question-if anyone knows--in real life while in flight in battle would a P51 engine get hot or lockup from overheating in a dogfight with or without wep. like i'm pretty sure if sitting on the runway idling may overheat the engine-true or false.
like in AH you can run you're wep out but the engine dose not blow or burn up-but in war thunder it doe's, actually the wep don't have to be on.
so in real life can you lose engine with high rpm-high speed dog fighting?
OH CRAP I POSTED THIS IN WRONG FORUM
The short answer, YES. The Merlin is somewhat complex to start. During ground ops, special care and monitoring is required to prevent engine overheating. For instance, during idle operations, it’s advised to keep the nose pointed +- 10 degrees into the wind to ensure adequate engine cooling.
I venture to guess that during wartime ops, maintenance crews were kept busy repairing and replacing Mustang engines after combat operations.
A few years ago, my amazing wife gave me a Mustang orientation ride at Stallion51. Months later we went back to go through their week long Mustang Pilot checkout. This pretty much emptied my bucket list, except for flying the space shuttle. My astute wife noted that the shuttles were all grounded. My reply was that I could still want to fly the shuttle.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Arlo on April 13, 2020, 12:16:36 PM
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Puma44 on April 13, 2020, 01:00:13 PM
Hmmmm, that would be interesting in VR.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: hazmatt on April 13, 2020, 05:55:44 PM
Couple things of note.
The 38 was know for it's having heavy workload on engine management while the 190 was know for having a computer that managed most things.
Also I've read numerous times about 109s having to have all the plugs replaced if they overheated the motor.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Drano on April 14, 2020, 07:22:03 AM
IL2 on expert mode has all the engine management. I haven't messed with DCS but as I understand it DCS is even more involved. It can be a pain with all the stuff you have to remember in order to get your engine to deliver power without not blowing it up! You'll have to have multiple extra things mapped to your stick to actuate things. Mixture, RPM, prop pitch, radiator shutters, oil cooler shutters, supercharger settings, etc. Lot of extra crap. All those settings are gonna change with altitude too! Once you know what all those things are supposed to be and have it mapped its not that bad. I pretty much have the P-38 figured out. But the problem is, that's just one plane. They're all different. I've blown up engines on a takeoff run! Heck the russki birds I can't even read the gauges!
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Bruv119 on April 21, 2020, 03:03:21 PM
IL2 on expert mode has all the engine management. I haven't messed with DCS but as I understand it DCS is even more involved. It can be a pain with all the stuff you have to remember in order to get your engine to deliver power without not blowing it up! You'll have to have multiple extra things mapped to your stick to actuate things. Mixture, RPM, prop pitch, radiator shutters, oil cooler shutters, supercharger settings, etc. Lot of extra crap. All those settings are gonna change with altitude too! Once you know what all those things are supposed to be and have it mapped its not that bad. I pretty much have the P-38 figured out. But the problem is, that's just one plane. They're all different. I've blown up engines on a takeoff run! Heck the russki birds I can't even read the gauges!
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
not really all that involved you should try it, everything is free for a month right now. Some rad/oil flaps are automatic. I very rarely blow engines in DCS, it's just re-wiring your brain to not hang on your prop at maximum settings for too long which is what you would expect really. The struggle is learning a new module and spending lots of hours on a certain type then flipping back to a different plane and having to remember how one has to operate that. It's all practice and very much like the real thing learning the nuances of different planes. I find great satisfaction in it. I'm 100% on Spit 9 and Pony. 109k4 is prob 90% there. The Dora I'm going to hook up soon. Awaiting a P47 and Mosquito for further challenges.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Hotstuff on April 21, 2020, 04:32:54 PM
Drano's spot on.
The thing that's nice about AH is the accessibility while having a good flight model. I would rather have a better damage model for AH than a better engine model.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: hazmatt on April 21, 2020, 06:08:43 PM
What's wrong with the damage model other then when I plane looses half of a wing it flys faster?
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Chalenge on April 21, 2020, 07:19:23 PM
P-51s in India overheated just taxiing to the runway, so . . .
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Mongoose on April 21, 2020, 09:19:02 PM
P-51s in India overheated just taxiing to the runway, so . . .
Many planes had that problem, and some still do, if they are not managed properly. While sitting on the ground, you don't have the normal airflow to cool the engine. The plane wasn't designed to taxi all day, it was designed to fly.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Hotstuff on April 21, 2020, 11:04:06 PM
What's wrong with the damage model other then when I plane looses half of a wing it flys faster?
Parts freely come off in Aces high, especially wing parts. Planes explode. If you look at real gun camera footage it doesn't happen too much.
I think IL2 has a better damage model, especially with their new update. If your wing is full of holes, you don't fly just as fine without them, there is a heavy penalty.
One thing that is frustrating in AH is that if you are in an early war plane and land some good hits on a late war plane but don't take off any pieces, that guy is still flying just as well as if you didn't hit him.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Arlo on April 21, 2020, 11:12:37 PM
One thing that is frustrating in AH is that if you are in an early war plane and land some good hits on a late war plane but don't take off any pieces, that guy is still flying just as well as if you didn't hit him.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Chalenge on April 22, 2020, 04:47:59 AM
One night long ago four or five Pups decided to fly Spit 1's on Trinity, which meant the enemy had to come to us. I locked up a bogey and started to light him up, but after a bit my wingman asked me is I was hitting him, or just toying with him. The only thing I felt like my guns were doing was giving the poor guy on the other end a headache from all the sounds, but he eventually scraped something he couldn't fly away from. Early war planes are fun, but in the MA the enemy has to be determined to die if they are in a late war ride, otherwise they can just run.
Title: Re: P51's
Post by: Oldman731 on April 22, 2020, 07:24:41 AM
One night long ago four or five Pups decided to fly Spit 1's on Trinity, which meant the enemy had to come to us. I locked up a bogey and started to light him up, but after a bit my wingman asked me is I was hitting him, or just toying with him. The only thing I felt like my guns were doing was giving the poor guy on the other end a headache from all the sounds, but he eventually scraped something he couldn't fly away from. Early war planes are fun, but in the MA the enemy has to be determined to die if they are in a late war ride, otherwise they can just run.
I don't think that's a damage design problem with the game. The 8-gun British planes require you to set your convergence closer than the .50 cal. and cannon planes do. I have mine at 175, others use 200. AND, because you're firing deer cartridges, it's pointless to shoot from further away than about 200 yards indicated. But if you do those things, the .303s really chop up an enemy plane.