Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Saxman on July 31, 2006, 11:28:12 PM
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Ok, this time I've got a REAL skin for y'all.
F4U-1 BuNo 02350, July 1943, White 7 Daphne 'C' flown by Capt. James N Cupp
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Daphne-C.jpg)
My reference pic. I'll have some more notes on this below, but first here's the skin thus far:
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Left.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Right.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Top.png)
The only view I'm at all sure about the appearance of is the left side, because of the pic. When running a search on this plane on Yahoo I didn't get a whole lot, mostly some miniature die-cast toy, (suspect for accuracy) an old Aero Master decal sheet (no images of the plane, just the sheet itself, although that's where I got the BuNo, and supported by a couple other sites about the diecast toy) and a model kit done in those markings.
The model kit shows the painted-over "13" on both sides of the fuselage. The roundels on the kit are on both upper wing surfaces, which IS the case with many early Corsairs in the blue-gray/gray colors. However there were some minor errors on the model which leaves the rest of it suspect.
The die-cast toy also has roundels on both upper wing surfaces, but doesn't show the faded 13 at all. Neither the die-cast toy or model showed the nose art on the aircraft's starboard side, and neither had images of the underside.
I found another kit with the Daphne 'C' nose art, however this aircraft had an entirely DIFFERENT fuselage number (15). It had the nose art on both port and starboard sides of the cowl.
So, as of right now the only thing I'm certain about is the left side of the aircraft. If anyone knows of some other images of this aircraft: specifically the starboard side, top and bottom. I also would appreciate a more detailed look at the nose art so I can try to match a font. (which btw, I AM aware my 7 isn't quite right I used AmarilloUSAF, but I'll probably have to hand-draw that). Finally, I used Slaker's VMF-213 skin as reference for the colors. Does anyone knows of an RGB setting that is a better match for the camoflage pattern?
Lastly, I think there may be an interesting story behind the faded 13 on the fuselage sides and cowl (I still need to tweak mine, because the cowl number isn't showing up). When trying a search on Yahoo by the BuNo, I didn't come up with White 7 at all. Instead, all the responses were about Ken Walsh's White 13 from VMF-124 which ALSO was listed under the same BuNo. Anyone know of a site where you can research these old BuNos? I'd love to be able to verify that Walsh's plane was re-numbered and re-assigned.
EDIT: I felt the roundels were WAY too bright, so I've already changed them to a darker color.
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looks real nice sax :aok
on the detailed top pic it shows the nose cowling to be slightly lighter blue, is this a light effect or a merging from the dark navy blue to a lighter blue?
almost looks as if they have blended a couple of shades of blue over the whole scheme infact.
edit: i geuss its just the lighting.
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Hey Sax,
According to my Osprey Corsair Aces of WWII book, it alludes to the fact that the same aircraft was flown by Walsh and Cupp. So, I always assumed that was why the number was painted over, since Walsh liked to fly the 13.
I think the blue is a bit deeper than what I've been able to find in pictures and artwork, but Kevin or Krusty are the experts on that stuff. I've been trying to find a RGB cross reference for all of the ANA colors but haven't yet. There's a website that uses the FS or federal standard colors and gives you a picture reference, but it conflicts with other websites. So, don't know which is closer. Kind of strange, but the paint schemes for Wildcats and Corsairs used the same colors in early '43, but the two Osprey books have two different shades of blue for each aircraft. The blue in the Wildcat book is closer to your shade, while the Corsair paint looks almost powder blue.
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That's cool about the Walsh repaint. When I was looking at Corsairs to do I saw the painted-over 13 and thought "I wonder..." and that's why I HAD to do this bird. :D Nice to hear that confirmed.
I might just use the blue in that reference pic for now, as that looks closer to most of the artwork I've ever seen. I've got it all on different layers so it's pretty easy for me to go back in and change it.
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Ok, here's some updated screens. Adjusted the camoflage color, (I like this one a LOT better, and I think it's closer to the actual color) redid the "7" to fit the one in the reference pic, recolored the roundels to something closer to the right shade of blue, and also added roundels to the upper and lower surfaces of both wings (most of what I can find indicates Daphne 'C' used roundels on both surfaces of both wings).
There's definately a glitch on the cowl, where it looks like the very front half is actually mirrored. I'm gonna have to fiddle with the skin to fix the cowl number. I still don't have the nose art, and have not yet added the numbers to the landing gear doors, as I'm still not sure if A) Daphne had them, or B) WHICH number would be there, or how it would look (7? 13? 7 painted on top of a partially blanked 13?)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Left-2.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Right-2.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Top-2.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Bottom.png)
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Hi Sax,
A couple of things you may want to try to see if it helps how the skin looks...
A) blur the line between the grey and blue a little. If you are using Photoshop, the smudge tool would be great for this, just move things very subtly. This gives it less "precise" look and more of a hand painted one.
B) look at the way the Illustration is behind the engine. That's a good example of something to try to make a 2d picture look more 3d. Darken the shadow right behind where the engine cowling meets the fuselage and fade it.
C) Move the number and Roundel up a little on the fuselage. It seems to be hanging a little low.
I made a mock up of what I mean so you can see, and I have my mock up right below your original below...
ORIGINAL
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Left-2.png)
ALTERED
(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/Saxman-F4U.jpg)
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I like the color a lot better. Looks really good with the crap all over it to--nice and dirty blue.
I'm split on Knite's changes: roundel and number position is better, no question. The cowl flaps on the other hand would be closed in flight. I like the darker line to show the back edge of the flaps, but I don't like the spaces in between the individual flaps. It looks cool, but they look like they're opened a hair.
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The position of the number and roundel is based on the panel lines in the reference pic. If someone can find me a photo of the real bird that places the markings that high I'll change it, but otherwise it's staying per the pic (incidentally, I built a birdcage Corsair model a couple years ago, and the roundel position was more or less the same).
I'll look at darkening the line behind the cowl.
Btw, the dirt is from the F4U-1 template at ah-skins. Although I ran into a problem in that the weathering layer for the wings had the squadron markings in it. Took a little creative copy-and pasting to fix.
EDITED WITH ANOTHER UPDATE:
Added more of a shadow behind the cowling. Also, there's a bit of a stain running back along the fuselage from one of the upper cowl flaps which I also added. Once again since I don't have any information on the aircraft's starboard side I mirrored it on both sides.
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Front.png)
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I am now tentatively considering Daphne C finished. I've added numbers to the main landing gear doors based on an AeroMaster decal sheet, and done my best to draw the nose art from the image I had. I'll go back and update if I get any other references that show I need to make corrections.
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Front-2.png)
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Heya Sax,
the nose stands out a lot more IMO. =)
I'm a little mixed on what I was trying to explain as far as the suggestions... can't quite place what I mean...
I think I figured it out though. Look at the illustration itself.
Let's start with the Roundel.
I believe you might have the right size. But it's a hair low on your skin (and high on mine). The illustration shows the panel line through the roundel at almost 1/3rd down the top point. Your skin has it just barely cutting the top point off, and mine is 2/3rds down the top point. If you moved it up a smidgen (not nearly as far as I did), i think it would also help move the roundel from the curvature of the tail some and make it look more "circular" from the side.
The number 7
Again, I believe I was somewhat wrong in raising it, but feel it's too low. If we look at your illustration, it shows the #7 to have the end points meet at approximately 1/4th and 3/4ths between the horizontal panel line above, and the white paint below. Your skin has it at about 1/3rd and 3/4ths, meaning it's just a hair too small. If you "tallen" it some, it'll look higher, but not be any higher, just a little bigger. And if you compare it to the 13 on the illustration, the 7 IS noticably bigger.
The 13
If you look at the illustration again, the top of the 13 is in line with the top of the 2nd kill mark, but on your skin it's closer to the bottom of the 2nd kill mark.
However, that's all nitpicking. I like it, and love the new staining. =)
I'll shut up and stop annoying you. ;-) It's this sort of thinking of mine that drives me nuts and takes me a year to make a skin. *sigh*
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I'll look into it when I get home. I may resize the reference pic to fit it over the skin. Certainly there\'s going to be some distortion just due to inaccuracies of the model. At the same time I\'ll probably look at modifying her into Ken Walsh\'s White 13.
Edited:
Ok, I've taken a look at it, including pasting the reference painting into the skin, and here are my findings:
Both the 13 under the canopy on the cowl are just about the right size and position in relation to the panel lines, as is the nose art, so no changes there. The killboard was slightly higher and further forward than it should have been, so it's been corrected.
The aft section is a LITTLE trickier, owing to a few inaccuracies in the panel detailing (notably, some panels just aren't the right size). Regardless, the roundel position IS CORRECT, both per the panel lines, (or as right as it can be made) and the actual position on the aircraft itself, so that will not be moved. I HAVE slightly enlarged the #7, but am keeping its position as it's as close as I can get to where it should be in relation to both roundel and panelling, so it too will not be moved.
At this point, Daphne 'C' is now considered finished unless some picture of the upper, lower, or starboard sides indicate some change in insignia needs to be made (nose are on both sides, roundels on only one upper and lower wing, etc). The changes were minute, so no updated pics.
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Meh. Frelling edit time-limit. :p
ANYway. Seems that modifying Daphne into White 13 was easier than I expected. The same site I found that reference pic on had one of her in Walsh's markings from a month later. Only differences are Cupp's 7 is gone and painted over by Walsh's 13, two more kills are added, the nose art is gone, and it appears that she now only has roundels on one upper and lower surface. It also seems that the staining along the side of the fuselage had been cleaned up a bit.
So here we go, Kenneth Walsh's "White 13," VMF-124, August 1943
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/White-13/White-13.png)
I'm not QUITE done. I think I cut off part of one fuselage roundel (visible in the pic) while erasing Cupp's number. Also, the pic of White 13 shows the aircraft with the Navy, BuNo, and F4U-1 markings on the tail. The pic I have for Daphne doesn't, so I'm not sure if that was an error of omission, (or inclusion) or if those markings weren't displayed when he had the plane.
Anyone have a guess?
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Well, Walsh got shot down like 3 times in 124's tour, and he flew a "13"most of the time, so it could be its a different plane (Buno)in the two pics in the book, even though the numbering is the same. The book does say they flew the same plane some. A lot of the Buno's got mixed up at the Canal, as squadrons rotated, swapped planes, and borrowed from each other. Walsh and Cupp were both at Henderson for about 3 months, and there's a good chance VMF-124 and -213 shared planes.
I agree on the roundel position Sax. I think maybe the model throws the look off, but it looks like the right position.
One more thing--the leading edge of the vertical stab on both skins needs to get recolored. Its hidden on the sheet with the engine, down in the lower left corner I believe...
Also, one thing I'm planning on adding to my F4U skins is the tape they used to put over the gun ports to keep the weapons clean during taxi and takeoff. Early on, they used 4 sets of tape on each wing to make the Japanese think it was 8X.50cal instead of 6. Just an uber detail if its possible.
[Edit]--you might want to ding up the paint a bit, especially around the oil coolers on the leading edge, and around the bottom front of the cowling. Most of the pics I have, the hogs look pretty beat up around those areas...
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Unfortunately, my weathering skills are largely limited to whatever I can do with an airbrush effect. That, and I'm lazy. :D
Seeing as the Cupp and Walsh pics I used were referenced as being only a month apart (July and August, respectively, with no specifics on the date) and BOTH images show the blanked-out 13 on the cowl (which neither Cupp's White 7 or Walsh's White 13 carried a number in that position) I think it's a fairly safe bet it's the same aircraft. So I've added the BuNo to both skins.
As for the vertical stab, I don't think it's that the color is wrong due to placement on the map. I've seen this shadow effect with other models before, and I think it has more to do with vertex order on the mesh (see the top view below. From that angle, the color of the vert stab leading edge correctly matches the rest of it).
And finally, another peek for the skin-starved Hog lovers out there:
Lt. Edwin Olander's "Marine's Dream" of VMF-214, c. Dec 1943
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Marines_Dream/Marines_Dream.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Marines_Dream/Top.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Marines_Dream/Bottom.png)
Couple oddities about this bird:
First is the unusually high demarcation line between the upper and lower camoflage color and the gray, rather than blue, vertical stab. In addition, for some reason at this particular time White 576 used the gray all the way out to the wingtips on the undersides, rather than changing to blue on the outer part of the wing as in most Corsairs in these colors (yes, I DO realize part of one aileron on the underside is blue. You can blame the way the wing is mapped for that).
Secondly is the roundels. The sides and upper wing surface use the early "star and bars" without the colored border. However the underside retains the plain roundel without bars.
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Did they put nose art on both sides of the plane??? I thought it was usually just on one side.
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Pics I have shows it on both.
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I would definitely try to find real wartime photos of that setup, as it breaks pretty much every rule for Corsair paintjobs. If (for example) you just have a color profile of it, I'd not trust that until I found more evidence that it was correct.
It does look different, though :aok
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I think there's a picture of this plane in the Corsair book, but I don't think it shows both sides. I have seen pictures of another Corsair with the nose art on the right side, though--the one with the pair of dice on it.
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Unfortunately, Yahoo isn't much help in that regard. I mostly get decal sheets and those die-cast replicas (one sheet has photos of the real bird being towed away after she wrecked while landing, but they're not very useful). I DID hit on the site of a kit someone built that had the same gray outer wings and nose art on both sides. Its underwing roundel had the bars, tho, but otherwise more or less identical to what I did here.
No new pics, but a couple updates:
Turned the pinup around on the starboard side so she faces aft, per the above mentioned kit.
Raised the demarcation line between the two camoflage colors along the sides slightly.
Added the treadways along the upper wing surfaces. If I can get pics of Daphne C/White 13 that show them I'll add them both there, too.
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Sounds kind of sketchy. Might want to keep looking. At least get several models, built by different folks, or several decal sheets (I personally feel a decal sheet is a better reference than a built model) from different places, that all support each other.
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Well, problem is NONE of the kits or decal sheets support each other. One sheet has two pinups facing the same way while another has them facing opposite directions, and at least one sheet only has a single pinup. Some paint charts show the plane with a blue tail, others show gray. Same with the under-wing surfaces. Now this may simply be a matter of all these different decal sheets and paintingreferences reflecting the aircraft at different times before she was wrecked, or two different aircraft ENTIERLY that carried the same markings. It could also mean there ARE no other photograph references so EVERYONE is guessing.
For that matter, I can't even get a consensus on what SQUADRON the plane OFFICIALLY belonged in as of Dec of 1943. Some place her with VMF-214, some with VMF-222.
I guess the only way to be 100% sure would be to send the screen caps to Olander himself.
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In this case, if you can't even get 2 pieces of info that tell you the same thing, I don't think you can really create the skin for it. You need to be able to defend to HTC that this aircraft actually existed. As-is, you have no idea if this plane existed, or if it was the plane with the blue tail, or if it was the plane in the different squadron, etc.
You need to defend it against scrutiny, basically.
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Oh, I know the plane itself DID exist. I even have the Navy BuNo: 02576. And like I said, I HAVE seen one war-time photo. Unfortunately, it's onyl from the port side as a crane is lifting it out of the mud. You can only see the dorsal surface of the wings, and the vertical stab had been torn off during the wreck. You CAN see the "Marine's Dream" pinup quite clearly on the port cowl, though.
The discrepency is in the squadron information, the noseart placement, the vertical stab and lower outer wing panels (I'll probably use the star w/bars on the lower wing, as that's what most images show).
As far as the squadron, I'm seriously leaning towards VMF-214. There are dissenting sources, but the majority indicate Swashbucklers/Black Sheep.
Incidentally, I did some research on the Corgi die-cast miniatures, and the general impression I get is that they ARE pretty careful in their research.
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If you've got the Bu No and all that, that's great! I was rather worried that HTC wouldn't accept it :)
Corgi might think they are careful in their research, or they might just be blowing propoganda. Regardless of what they say, the end result is that 99% of all their LW planes are inaccurate in major ways. Sometimes thecolors are off. Sometimes the entire camoflauge scheme is wrong.
US schemes are more simplistic (OD upper, BMF under) but I bet if you compared camo patterns (Gabby's Jug) you'd find some errors.
I've noticed that they're not the best with detail markings (i.e. wingtips, cowling rings, whatever)
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Their colors ARE somewhat off. Their Daphne 'C' and Marine's Dream are more gray on top than blue. However I think as far as actual insignia they're pretty good (at least, their Daphne was pretty close to my reference pic, right down to the blanked-out 13 under the canopy rail.
Incidentally, is there a site out there where you can plug in the BuNo and get the OFFICIAL Navy writeup on the bird? I've gotten lists searching on Yahoo by both Daphne/White 13's and Marine's Dream's BuNos, but once again 02576 is variously attributed to VMF-214 and 222 at the time she was wrecked.
Some minor details on the skin:
Changed the roundel on the lower wing to the version with bars. If I ever get a pic that shows the aircraft at this point still indeed carried the plain roundel on the lower wing I'll put it back that way (pretty easily done). Also, after studying AeroMaster and other decal/paint charts, what written information I could find, and pics of various models people have done, I've added a patch of lighter blue under part of the fuselage number where an old number had been blanked out.
Incidentally, there's another "Marine's Dream" out there I've seen both as a kit and a real aircraft (this particular plane comes up in the majority of search responses). Oddly, it's an FG-1D in tri-color with the late-43/early-44 red-bordered roundels attributed to Ken Walsh (including his #13).
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Originally posted by Saxman
is there a site out there where you can plug in the BuNo and get the OFFICIAL Navy writeup on the bird?
I'm not 100% on this, but I'm 80% sure there is no such place. I'm possitive that somebody would have posted a link a million times by now, were such a place around.
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Hm. This sounds like a question for Widewing or DOA. If anything I'm sure ONE of them probably has those Corsair BuNo's memorized.
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Originally posted by Saxman
I'm sure ONE of them probably has those Corsair BuNo's memorized.
:rofl
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At it again. "Ramblin' Wreck" of VMF-121. Got her from an AeroMaster decal sheet I saw online, which has a BuNo on one of the decals, but it's too small for me to read the screenshot. If anyone's familiar with the set or these markings I'd appreciate the BuNo for the tail.
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/RamblinWreck/RamblinWreck.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/RamblinWreck/Bottom.png)
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looks good nice colors
is that greebo's template?
was noting the nice skin stress effects.
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Don't know off hand who made it, just that I got it off ah-skins.com
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Originally posted by Saxman
Added the treadways along the upper wing surfaces. If I can get pics of Daphne C/White 13 that show them I'll add them both there, too.
I guess I need to get a scanner. I've got a picture in the book of Cupp sitting on the side of the cockpit of Daphne C and it does not have treadways on the wings. In fact, none of the F4U-1's in the pictures have treadways on the wings--just paint.
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Marine's Dream wasn't Ken Walsh's aircraft. I'll have to pull the data on that plane when I get home. I can also post some buno's for the planes you've worked on so far when I get home from work.
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The only BuNo so far I need is for Ramblin' Wreck, as the screen cap of the decal is too small to read. The others I'm pretty certain of.
As for MArine's Dream, I know the -1 that I've done here was Olander's. I would THINK he'd have kept that artwork when transitioning into the 1A, but the only representation I find is this modern mockup attributing it to Walsh (which I KNOW is incorrect. Not only that, but to my knowledge NO 1D, which is what that bird is, carried the tricolor markings).
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Ok, I've got all my Hog skins updated with colors based on the charts linked by Kev367th So here's some before and after shots of the four I've done so far:
Daphne C
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Front-2.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Daphne-C/Daphne-C.png)
White 13
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/White-13/White-13.png) (http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/White-13/White-13_2.png)
Marine's Dream
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Marines_Dream/Marines_Dream.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/Marines_Dream/Marines_Dream3.png)
Ramblin' Wreck
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/RamblinWreck/RamblinWreck.png)
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/RamblinWreck/RamblinWreck2.png)
I more or less consider these four finished, although I'm still needing Ramblin Wreck's BuNo for the tail markings.
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Two ideas for you:
1. My picture of Marine's Dream has the blue paint all the way up the vert. stab.
2. Might want to check the transition of the dark blue around the cowling on the tri-color scheme
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Again, I've seen two different variations of Marine's Dream. One with a blue stab, one with a gray. The primary reference I used (supported by a several AeroMaster color charts) had the gray stab, so that's what I went with.
It's possible the gray stab was added after the aircraft wrecked on landing, as from the photo I saw pretty much the entire surface was torn off (appeared to be the most significant structural damage to the aircraft, as well). My primary reference dated that particular color pattern to c. December 1943, which was the same month the plane crash-landed.
Also, my reference pic of Ramblin Wreck (the only one I could find) shows that particular transition pattern on the cowl. One reason I did her was specifically BECAUSE of the somewhat atypical transition.
Which BTW, if you were wanting a VMF-121 Corsair, there's Wreck for ya. :D
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Well, figured it was about time to do a Navy bird, and what better choice than the definitive Navy Corsair squadron?
#12 of VF-17
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/17-F-12/17-F-12.png)
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If I knew how to do a custom animated smiley face YOU SIR, would get the dancing up for joy, banana man, beer cheer, and anything else.
Absolutely great!
Do you have any idea when we'll see any of these in the game?
I'd have to say, although all are beautiful, "Ramblin' Wreck" is going to be my new main ride :aok
THANK YOU!
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They all look good bro!
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Don't know yet. I'm STILL needing Ramblin' Wreck's BuNo, and am also trying to find it for the Jolly Rogers Hog.
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Fighting Squadron 17 "Jolly Rogers"
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/VF-17/17-F-23.png)
Early VF-17 Hog, from the beginning of 1943.
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/VF-17/17-F-12.png)
This is the one I posted last night. Moved the image to a new folder on my web space and can't go back and edit the link now. :p
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/VF-17/17-F-13.png)
A high-res version of the default F4U-1 skin. I'm already working on fixing the camoflage on the cowl.
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Yeah, so, uh, who do I have to bribe to find out that BuNo for Saxman here? :D
Ramblin Wreck... C'mon now, with the way I spin these things on the ground half the time, that'll be one nice screen shot :)
17-F-12 is a sharp looking bird too...
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I need the BuNo's for Ramblin Wreck and the three Jolly Rogers Hogs.
Also, if anyone else knows of a Bent Winged Bird they'd like to see let me know (and get me pics).
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Go hunting :)
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/navyserials.html
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Just out of curiosity, why are we needing BuNos on the F4Us?
Seems like there is enough photo evidence for these birds out there to support the skins.
Here's Marine's Dream from the Osprey Corsair Aces. Tail, or what's left of it sure looks single lighter color.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Also, if anyone else knows of a Bent Winged Bird they'd like to see let me know (and get me pics).
I was looking through Osprey's Corsair Aces of WW2... It's really a shame we don't have the 1A... Such great skins.
Of the ones featured in there (I assume you have it, if not I can scan one in tomorrow), the skin I'd like to see is the:
F4U-1D white 66 of Ens Alfred Lerch, VF-10, USS Intrepid , April 1945... It's plate #50... I'm really a fan of the darker birds, myself.
Anyway, in regards to that link Dan posted... I'm gonna go digging through it myself tomorrow. Do you want to get organized in doing this, so maybe we could cover it in half the time? Let me know.
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Ok,
I've looked at Baugher's page, read through about 5 different books, even looked at some after action reports to try and find the numbers. About the only thing I can think of that hasn't been tried by me is to contact the Naval History Archives. I'm sure some historians, like the Osprey folks, have already tried that to get the numbers. But, it could be worth a shot. The only catch might be finding a microfiche machine to read the records on.
I have found some numbers that Baugher didn't have on his site on other sites, so all hope may not be lost...
Good Luck Sax
p.s. Guppy, I think he's just interested in putting them on the tail, not doubting the history of the planes/skins...
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Stoney hit it, I'm primarily wanting to put them on the tail.
I WOULD also like them for verification, especially in the case of the planes where I can't find anything more than decal sheets or color plates.
I ran across that site while doing a yahoo search. It doesn't have much in the way of Corsairs to begin with. Doesn't have Ramblin' Wreck, and none of the three from VF-17.
Vudak: Yeah, I'll need you to post some scans. I really should pick that book up. I REALLY hope that HTC adds the late-1944 1A we've been screaming for when they update the Hogs. I mean there's about a dozen known Jolly Rogers skins ALONE, plus all the other USN and USMC birds (so does anyone think HTC would allow Lulu/Lucybelle ;) ).
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This is the only scan I have at the moment. I've included FF59 (a plane we already have) just to show the difference in color, although I do realize that these Osprey books don't always get it right.
I was trying to look for a Corsair skin that is alittle different then what we have, but this was the best I could come up with from this book (disregarding the -1A's, which seem to make up most of the plates). There's only so much you can do with different shades of blue :)
Anyway, I know this isn't enough information to start working on it, but I figure it should at least give you an idea as to whether or not it's something you're interested in doing. It does seem to be darker then the Corsair skins we already have.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/787_1155906615_corsair2.jpg)
Edit, here's a prefab model (I know, poor source, but this is my first try at getting anything) giving an idea what the top of the wings MAY have looked like :rolleyes:
(http://www.flyingmule.com/img/prd/CG-HC33011_01_lrg.gif)
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Looks interesting. I think I'll give her a whirl.
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White 66 of VF-10
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/White-66/White66.png)
I'm already working on fixing the white on the tail. The stripe on the wing has its own problems, however.
Whoever mapped the Corsair models quite frankly did a bit of a shoddy job of it. The upper and lower surfaces of the ailerons for both the -1 and -1D (not sure about the 1C or 4) actually intrude on each other, which is why in my tricolor F4U-1s if you look at them from below the Sea Blue of the upper surface of the port wing overlaps part of the the bottom of the starboard aileron (in the case of the -1, the front half of the cowl lip is ALSO incorrectly mapped, and the cowl flaps on the -1D look distorted in some places, particularly underneath).
So, I can either run the stripe the full length from leading to trailing edge where it will cut into the opposite aileron, or I have to shorten it.
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Looks good--make sure to make it GLOSSY...I want to be able to shave in the cowl reflection
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How would I set that up?
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From Krusty and Kev, they keep talking about the materials file. There are settings in there that impact the lighting on the skin--like how reflective or flat it is when the sun reflects off the wings, etc. Kev suggested for a flat materials file, we could just copy one of the Spit defaul materials files, or for glossy, use the default materials file from a P-38L
I haven't tried it yet, because I'm still laying out skins and am not ready for the tweaking stage. You, on the other hand have a nice little group ready for tweaking it seems.
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So, get the material file from the P-38L, rename it as necessary, and put it in the folder with the skin?
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Originally posted by Saxman
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/White-66/White66.png)
I'm already working on fixing the white on the tail. The stripe on the wing has its own problems, however.
Wow! You skinners never cease to amaze me. If I were to try making one, it would take me probably four months to make something that doesn't even come close to what you all can do in a few hours :)
I can't wait until this one gets in the game... Now not only can I pretend I'm flying around a Corsair in WW2, but I can ALSO pretend I'm Mario Lemieux flying a Corsair around in WW2. Fantasy world overload, here, folks :D
Many thanks, Saxman!
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I just used the skin templates from the ahskins.com or whichever (I'm at work, and can't look at my Favorites) :D
But thank you.
Any other requests?
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White 435 of VMF-225
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/White-435/White435.png)
This one is from the rear to better show the tail markings, which ARE just readable.
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Well crud, I just realized we already have the VMF-225 bird.
Ah well, I like mine better. :D
Anyway, here's another REAL new one. White 93 of VMF-214.
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/White93/White93.png)
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"Skipper's Orchid" of HQSS-22
(http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/AcesHigh/SkippersOrchid/SkippersOrchid.jpg)
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Awsome work Sax.
I've mentioned this before, on those outlying bases like Munda the Marine squadrons pooled their aircraft and their ground crews. The confusion over whos plane it was probably comes from THEY (214 or 222) didnt know whos it was. Obviously there were records, but many things as you know get passed on word of mouth without thinking later it might be important. One guy from 222 says "we wrecked BuNo #####" and one guy from 214 says the same thing to someone else.
60 years later we have to wonder whos plane it was. :)
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I think the actual Navy/USMC record on Marine's Dream is VMF-222, so that's what I'm going with.