General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on June 11, 2020, 01:35:44 AM
Title: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 11, 2020, 01:35:44 AM
My thanks to Lyric1 and Fencer51 for their research assistance and to Devil505, Greebo, and Arlo for their input on the colors for the nose art.
P-51D-10-NA (s/n 44-14419) was flown by Maj. William J. "Bill" Price of the 350th FS, 353rd FG, 8th AF, from 7 September 1944 until the end of his tour on 12 December that same year. This Mustang, like all his aircraft, was named "Janie" after his sister. Price flew 108 combat missions over two tours in P-47s and P-51s scoring seven victories (three air, four ground -- three Bf-109s, one He-111, one Fw-190, one Me-210, and one Me-410). He ended his wartime service as the squadron commander for the 350th and was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.
Assigned to another pilot, Lt. George W. Robinson--who renamed her "Marilyn"--the aircraft was lost on 25 December 1944 when Robinson crash-landed due to engine failure (or being shot down) over Belgium. He managed to evade capture.
The 353rd FG, also known as “Bill's Buzz Boys” or “The Slybird Group” were stationed at Raydon, Suffolk, UK during the period in which they operated P-51s after converting to the type in late September of 1944.
This skin is intentionally devoid of any exhaust staining, and, while that may not satisfy some people in their desire for "photorealism" (tm), it is correct per the available source photos of the aircraft.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: lyric1 on June 11, 2020, 03:19:57 AM
:aok
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Devil 505 on June 11, 2020, 08:19:05 AM
Very nice
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Greebo on June 11, 2020, 08:31:06 AM
Great looking skin Vraciu, nice contrast between the NMF and camo'd areas.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 11, 2020, 09:08:54 AM
Thanks guys. I may tweak a couple of things with the checkers to make them a tiny bit less bold. The spec files look right from the cockpit which may not be obvious from the screenshots.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Mister Fork on June 11, 2020, 10:56:54 AM
Another great skin V. :aok
As with all skins, this one shows that Price took care of his bird, cleaning the cowling of soot if that is what was on the picture you based it on shows. Even more accurate!
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 11, 2020, 11:38:21 AM
As with all skins, this one shows that Price took care of his bird, cleaning the cowling of soot if that is what was on the picture you based it on shows. Even more accurate!
Thanks guys. I may tweak a couple of things with the checkers to make them a tiny bit less bold. The spec files look right from the cockpit which may not be obvious from the screenshots.
Maybe the checkers should stay as is since they look pretty bold on other Mustangs of the Group.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: perdue3 on June 11, 2020, 05:19:51 PM
I find the black and yellow to be too black and too yellow. I do not know what the term here is, saturation, maybe? They don't look painted on or a part of the scheme but rather pasted on or wrapped. I also find the rivets and panel lines to be way too defined, even on the OD (vertical stabilizer for example).
I am no artist or skinner, so take what I say as just a guy that looks for a pretty skin to fly. I just look at the list and find something well done and cool.
:aok
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Devil 505 on June 11, 2020, 05:44:54 PM
I think Perd is on to something.
I'd adjust the boldness of the yellow and black. Also, the OD could stand to be lightened some too, I think.
Another thing comes to mind when I look at your skin is that the panel lines and rivets on the OD sections also seem too bold. I'd try lightening them as well. I generally use 7-8% opacity for a basic line, 15% for a hatch, and 6% for a rivet.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 11, 2020, 06:12:33 PM
I'd adjust the boldness of the yellow and black. Also, the OD could stand to be lightened some too, I think.
Another thing comes to mind when I look at your skin is that the panel lines and rivets on the OD sections also seem too bold. I'd try lightening them as well. I generally use 7-8% opacity for a basic line, 15% for a hatch, and 6% for a rivet.
The screenshots darken everything. If I lighten the OD any more it’s gonna look like a green bean in the game. Same with the checkers. They’re already at 80% opacity or so...
Panel lines and rivets are a game concession. I used to get complaints they were too light before.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Devil 505 on June 11, 2020, 06:32:38 PM
The screenshots darken everything. If I lighten the OD any more it’s gonna look like a green bean in the game. Same with the checkers. They’re already at 80% opacity or so...
Panel lines and rivets are a game concession. I used to get complaints they were too light before.
Just occurred to me to ask, what is you gamma level in game?
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 11, 2020, 06:53:54 PM
I find the black and yellow to be too black and too yellow. I do not know what the term here is, saturation, maybe? They don't look painted on or a part of the scheme but rather pasted on or wrapped. I also find the rivets and panel lines to be way too defined, even on the OD (vertical stabilizer for example).
I am no artist or skinner, so take what I say as just a guy that looks for a pretty skin to fly. I just look at the list and find something well done and cool.
:aok
I always appreciate the feedback. The dark panel lines on the tail bug me, too, but I just thought that was what everyone wanted based on prior feedback.
Devil may have figured out why I see three different things from the Viewer to the game to the screenshots—gamma. I’ve been optimizing the skins for how I see them when I fly them offline and that’s affected by my gamma setting.
I will report back what that is here shortly. I’m not motivated to sit down at my PC just yet.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 12, 2020, 09:48:45 AM
I forget what the default setting was, but I turned mine up to 1.3
Well, fly the skin offline--I sent you the files. 1.2 or 1.3 will work fine. Let me know if you can tell me why the screenshots always look so dark. I can email them to Perdue3 if he would also like to try them out.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: perdue3 on June 12, 2020, 10:03:30 AM
1.0 is default and the less, the darker. Still, one must assume that most people fly at 1.0-1.3 so you need to make the skin fit those settings. I just think the colors are too colorful and bold. Your 325th FG P-51D suffers from the same issue I think, but not quite as bad as "Janie." MachNix and Fester's checkers look good as do the colors, although MachNix's yellow is too pale and not bold enough.
Again, I know nothing, but to me the colors need to be toned down some. Interested in its progress.
:cheers:
(https://i.imgur.com/p94cFKy.jpg)
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 12, 2020, 11:04:27 AM
1.0 is default and the less, the darker. Still, one must assume that most people fly at 1.0-1.3 so you need to make the skin fit those settings. I just think the colors are too colorful and bold. Your 325th FG P-51D suffers from the same issue I think, but not quite as bad as "Janie." MachNix and Fester's checkers look good as do the colors, although MachNix's yellow is too pale and not bold enough.
Again, I know nothing, but to me the colors need to be toned down some. Interested in its progress.
:cheers:
(https://i.imgur.com/p94cFKy.jpg)
Good feedback. What I can't figure out is why MOLLY looks like *THAT* to you but looks like *THIS* to me (only not quite as dark as this image shows):
Can you screenshot the other two skins and post them so I can see what they look like to you compared to what I see on my end? Might be a big help.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: perdue3 on June 12, 2020, 11:34:45 AM
It is because I have my graphics turned down for maximum FPS. This enables me to drill P-51's with Mk. 108 projectiles that are crossing in front of me at 200 yards going Mach 0.93. Also, my PC is aging. I have Pst Lighting turned off as well as shadows and reflections.
(https://i.imgur.com/v1kFe9f.jpg)
The yellow here is way off, but on the other end of the spectrum as your Janie. But, his black is right. It is noticeably black but does not loo like a big blank pixel.
(https://i.imgur.com/fmCkTzd.jpg)
The black on his rudder is great. it is black, but has definition and does not look like it pasted or wrapped on. It looks like a natural part of the scheme.
(https://i.imgur.com/tXjd5Wl.jpg)
Same goes for his black on these checkers and letters. They are not saturated and do not pop like yours. They look blended and natural.
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: perdue3 on June 12, 2020, 11:43:59 AM
If you look at cactus's 348th FG P-51D and many others of his skins as well as Greebo's Jugs (365th FG for example) and various skins, that is the way the black should look in my opinion. As a regular dude that just looks for a skin that looks real and is well done, that is what I look for.
Happy to help, I mean no offense.
:cheers:
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 12, 2020, 12:02:45 PM
No offense taken. Your help is appreciated. I do these for the players, so it has to be good from that perspective not mine.
I'll take a closer look at these and get back to you.
:cheers: :salute
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 12, 2020, 01:13:58 PM
(I noticed that MOLLY has an incorrect Environment Map which I did not notice until Perd had me look at it. Thank you for that.)
When you look at the markings on this airplane, particularly the black ones, they are SOLID and the demarcation line between the checkers and the tail is extremely well defined. This matches what I modeled.
Now, when we take a look at Lander's BIG BEAUTIFUL DOLL--I made some spec maps to eliminate the SuperShine (tm) because this plane is stuck with the default--to me the black markings do not match the photo's intensity. They look more like chalk:
So, while the checkers may be in need of some additional desaturation or a bump in transparency, I don't know if that is the exact issue as must as perhaps a change to the maps somewhere... :headscratch:
Which one of Greebo's Jug's should I look at?
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: perdue3 on June 12, 2020, 01:31:31 PM
They may not match the photo, but they do not look right in a cartoon world. Skins and 3D models are meant to deceive the beholder into believing they are not looking at a pixelated object. When the black, yellow, red, etc. are too saturated, that deception does not happen. Which is my point about the less bold colors. Sure, in real life yellow is yellow and black is black. But, it is not so black that you can't see details.
In plastic models, you often cannot use black alone on the exterior. That is because it does not look right, it looks too black. This is called scale effect. I would say the same is the case in pixels. Even if the real airplane was truly black, it simply will not look right pixelated. As I stated, 365th FG is a good one to look at. To me, your black does not look natural. It is difficult to explain because I am not an artist and do not know the jargon.
Reminds me of this nugget:
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 12, 2020, 02:31:27 PM
They may not match the photo, but they do not look right in a cartoon world. Skins and 3D models are meant to deceive the beholder into believing they are not looking at a pixelated object. When the black, yellow, red, etc. are too saturated, that deception does not happen. Which is my point about the less bold colors. Sure, in real life yellow is yellow and black is black. But, it is not so black that you can't see details.
In plastic models, you often cannot use black alone on the exterior. That is because it does not look right, it looks too black. This is called scale effect. I would say the same is the case in pixels. Even if the real airplane was truly black, it simply will not look right pixelated. As I stated, 365th FG is a good one to look at. To me, your black does not look natural. It is difficult to explain because I am not an artist and do not know the jargon.
Reminds me of this nugget:
HA HA HA, funny stuff. No I get what you are saying. It's just one of those game concessions. I'll take a crack at it here shortly.
Thanks again for the input, sir. It's valuable. :salute
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Hajo on June 12, 2020, 05:58:36 PM
Well I for one think it looks great. Nice job!
Title: Re: Maj. William J. "Bill" Price - P-51D "JANIE" (LH*F) - 353rd FG, 350th FS (Ver 2)
Post by: Vraciu on June 12, 2020, 06:34:37 PM
Yep. This is the tone of OD I see on my end when I fly and when I look at the skin in the viewer. It's nowhere near as dark as some of you are seeing. Nor is it as dark as this screenshot. :headscratch: