Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Oldman731 on December 29, 2005, 01:59:21 PM
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The last few times we ran Tunisia, there was clamor for the A5 and for the Spit 5. Now that the Spit is more like it's historical self (as tested previously against the 109F), we're adding the two in to see how it all works out.
North Africa, as 1942 becomes 1943
Pressed between the veteran British Eighth Army on the
East, and the green but eager U.S. forces on the West,
the Afrika Korps fights the final delaying action.
Allied Forces (Bishops)
On Land:
Boston
C-47
Hurri I, IIC, IID
P38G
P40E
Spit 5
M3
M8
M16
Ostwind
Panzer IV
On Carriers:
F4F
Dauntless
Axis Forces (Knights)
Bf-109E
Bf-109F
Bf-110C
C. 202
FW-190A5
C-47
Ju-88
Stuka
M3
M8
M16
Ostwind
Panzer IV
Fog is set at 12.5 miles, the max
Fuel is 1.5 burn rate
Low-altitude ack is .5, puffy ack is .25
Friendly collisions are off.
Killshooter is on.
- oldman
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Thanks OM Looks Good.
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would you consider leaving out the HurriIIc. It will be a HO'n HurriIIc fest. otherwise the set up looks fine. Thanks OM.
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HO'n HurrII is a good counter to the HO'n 110:aok
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Originally posted by Shifty
HO'n HurrII is a good counter to the HO'n 110:aok
it's the 110C4 not the HO monster. aside from that I seldom HO and when I do I lose.
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KILLER SET-UP!
This is a really good match-up both in the air and on the ground.
! :aok
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Originally posted by storch
would you consider leaving out the HurriIIc. It will be a HO'n HurriIIc fest. otherwise the set up looks fine. Thanks OM.
The HurriIIc seems to fit in the timeframe of this setup, and it doesn't seem to be too fast for this planeset. And if the Hurricane-pilots have no other moves than the HO, you should have no problem evading those and getting to their tail to shoot 'em down.
Setup looks good to me. :)
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looks good :aok
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Originally posted by Panzzer
The HurriIIc seems to fit in the timeframe of this setup, and it doesn't seem to be too fast for this planeset. And if the Hurricane-pilots have no other moves than the HO, you should have no problem evading those and getting to their tail to shoot 'em down.
Setup looks good to me. :)
Yep but the watermelon part is that Hurri2Cs take ALOT of MG151s.
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not just that, the hurri was relegated to the ground attack role by this time during war because it couldn't compete with the opposition fighters. sadly in it's HTC representation it is almost the epitome of a late war frontline fighter. The same may also be said of the Bf110s especially the C4. I would say substitute the mossie for the much overused woobiecane and you will have a better representation of the spirit of the times. you will also see an important fighter/bomber that is little used in the CT. The spitV is great the way it is now. We have choices in the allied inventory that are seldom played, the mossie being one of them. to be a nit picker this set up in it's current iteration will be a hurriIIc vs a Bf109F one. The CT staff has the ability to change the dynamics by eliminating an overmodelled and overused plane and ending up with an interesting and challenging week for both sides. You could by the same logic eliminate the overmodelled Bf110C4 and substitute the 190F8 in it's stead, it would have the same basic bomb loadout and not be the uber fighter it never was. just a thought.
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Originally posted by storch
not just that, the hurri was relegated to the ground attack role by this time during war because it couldn't compete with the opposition fighters. sadly in it's HTC representation it is almost the epitome of a late war frontline fighter. The same may also be said of the Bf110s especially the C4. I would say substitute the mossie for the much overused woobiecane and you will have a better representation of the spirit of the times. you will also see an important fighter/bomber that is little used in the CT. The spitV is great the way it is now. We have choices in the allied inventory that are seldom played, the mossie being one of them. to be a nit picker this set up in it's current iteration will be a hurriIIc vs a Bf109F one. The CT staff has the ability to change the dynamics by eliminating an overmodelled and overused plane and ending up with an interesting and challenging week for both sides. You could by the same logic eliminate the overmodelled Bf110C4 and substitute the 190F8 in it's stead, it would have the same basic bomb loadout and not be the uber fighter it never was. just a thought.
To borrow a line from Saving Private Ryan........ " Now thats how you complain" Good points , and well presented. Storch has some good ideas here. The only thing I don't agree with is that every Allied flyer will be in a HurriIIc. I know I won't and I know a few others that won't. I don't like flying RAF stuff. Plus not everybody gravitates to the perceived uber picks. Although I agree enough will to make it bothersome.:aok
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Originally posted by storch
The CT staff has the ability to change the dynamics by eliminating an overmodelled and overused plane and ending up with an interesting and challenging week for both sides.
I'm curious, how do you know the Hurricane (or the 110 for that matter) are overmodeled? You throw that term around a lot and I never see you back it up with any evidence. How exactly is it overmodeled?
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Originally posted by Grits
I'm curious, how do you know the Hurricane (or the 110 for that matter) are overmodeled? You throw that term around a lot and I never see you back it up with any evidence. How exactly is it overmodeled?
Hmm lets see. I was told the Hurri was made outa wood and thats why it can take so much damage, yet at the same time Iv lit them up many times and they burned for 2mins+. As for the 110s both are way over modeled. They both turn way to good, and as crumpp said before why if the 110s were that good did they even try to make other planes. How it is now the C4 can out turn a spit5 with ease and give the spit1 a run for its money, and the G2 can out turn pretty much any plane in its time frame.
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Originally posted by Grits
I'm curious, how do you know the Hurricane (or the 110 for that matter) are overmodeled? You throw that term around a lot and I never see you back it up with any evidence. How exactly is it overmodeled?
empirical evidence? I have none. historical evidence ok here is what I believe from reading many different books. by 1942 the Hurricane was completely outclassed as a fighter and was relegated to the ground attack role. it was a 1935 design entering squadron service in 1937. during the BoB it was assigned the important task of primarily dealing with bomber interception because it could not effective deal with the Bf109E. while the hurricane did down more German A/C than the spitfire did during the BoB was primarily due to it's greater numbers at that stage of the war. does that sound like the HTC hurri to you? it doesn't to me. The Bf110 while much maligned for it's performance during the BoB was actually a pretty good all around fighter excelling in bomber interception as a night fighter. however there was no way it could turn against single engined fighters. does that sound like the HTC bf110 to you? it doesn't to me. If we were to consider the modelling presented by HTC as representative of these aircraft then we can conclude the both the RAE and RLM made considerable errors in not selecting these designs for further developement and cancelling other designs like the spitfire and the 109s. let alone ever even consider the 190.
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Originally posted by Larry
Hmm lets see. I was told the Hurri was made outa wood and thats why it can take so much damage, yet at the same time Iv lit them up many times and they burned for 2mins+.
The Hurricane was a tube steel frame with canvas skin, shells go through, not explode on the outside like a stressed skin.
How it is now the C4 can out turn a spit5 with ease and give the spit1 a run for its money, and the G2 can out turn pretty much any plane in its time frame.
Want to test the theory?
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Originally posted by storch
empirical evidence? I have none. historical evidence ok here is what I believe from reading many different books. by 1942 the Hurricane was completely outclassed as a fighter and was relegated to the ground attack role. it was a 1935 design entering squadron service in 1937. during the BoB it was assigned the important task of primarily dealing with bomber interception because it could not effective deal with the Bf109E. while the hurricane did down more German A/C than the spitfire did during the BoB was primarily due to it's greater numbers at that stage of the war. does that sound like the HTC hurri to you? it doesn't to me.
Sure. The Hurricane has no strengths except for turn rate (not counting guns), in every other area nearly any plane can absolutely dictate the fight against the Hurricane. Fly against it properly and a Hurricane can do nothing be fly defensive.
The Bf110 while much maligned for it's performance during the BoB was actually a pretty good all around fighter excelling in bomber interception as a night fighter. however there was no way it could turn against single engined fighters. does that sound like the HTC bf110 to you? it doesn't to me.
The 110 is good, but I dont find it as good as you make it out to be, and surely not in the realm of overmodeled
If we were to consider the modelling presented by HTC as representative of these aircraft then we can conclude the both the RAE and RLM made considerable errors in not selecting these designs for further developement and cancelling other designs like the spitfire and the 109s. let alone ever even consider the 190. [/B]
I find the Spitfire superior to the Hurricane and I find the 109 and 190 superior to the 110, just as they should be.
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Although I have no hard evidence at all when it comes to flight modelling.
I find it hard to use historical reference as to why this plane is uber over that plane, when you take out the tactics, the strategy, the fact you only get one life and plethora of other factors in dictating why one plane is better than another then slap it all into a furballing arena as your laboratory.
The wildcat versus the A6m is a great historical reference to show how supposed "overmodelling" is overrated.
I in no way mean to say that people's cases against the flight models are incorrect or that they are correct. It's more along the lines of you really need the hard evidence to make your case.
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Originally posted by Grits
The Hurricane was a tube steel frame with canvas skin, shells go through, not explode on the outside like a stressed skin.
Want to test the theory?
Dont thing the canvas thing is modeled into AH 30mms shells go of on them.
I dont have to test it its already been prooven. Last BoB I pretty much pwn3d joe untill he ran to about 1.5 turn and HOed. And the other day in the TA I was staying on Poofaces tail untill he started his rolling sissors. I was in the C4 he was in a S5. And dont even get me started with the last Fin/Rus how I out turned Shanes la5 in my 110G2 and killed him. (note there were no friendlys to be seen in fact I was the one geting ganged)
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Originally posted by TheBug
I in no way mean to say that people's cases against the flight models are incorrect or that they are correct. It's more along the lines of you really need the hard evidence to make your case.
Just like crumpps fight to get the 190s fixed and the 109 and 190 flaps.
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Originally posted by Larry
I dont have to test it its already been prooven. Last BoB I pretty much pwn3d joe untill he ran to about 1.5 turn and HOed. And the other day in the TA I was staying on Poofaces tail untill he started his rolling sissors. I was in the C4 he was in a S5. And dont even get me started with the last Fin/Rus how I out turned Shanes la5 in my 110G2 and killed him. (note there were no friendlys to be seen in fact I was the one geting ganged)
I dont know who joe is, and the only thing I know about Pooface is he is a friendly fragger. Shane is the only one I know and I highly doubt you consistantly beat him in a 1 v 1, maybe once.
I didnt expect you to back up your ludicrous claims, its much easier to live in delusion.
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It's up. Post problems here as you find them, please.
Re: Hurri II. Appreciate Storch's observations, but it seems to me you really can't leave the Hurricanes out of North Africa unless they totally unbalance the arena, like the old Spit 5 did. My own observation is that the Hurri II never was unbalancing (the 109F owned it), it was simply used an awful lot. I think that many people will fly the P-38 and, now, the Spit 5 in preference to the Hurri II.
Guess we can watch during the course of the week, and....er....make any necessary adjustments as we go....?
- oldman
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Grits, I bet that if you play to the best of your ability in a 110C you will beat me in a spitV every time. you would have a little tougher time with me in the Hurri, If you are game I'm willing to try that. provided you can keep slash and duke from interferring in the fight.
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I actually agree with Storch in regards to the Bf110 and Hurricane.
Not one RAF pilot I have ever read of has commented on how responsive and light the Hurricane was compared to the Spitfire. It was always the reverse of that. Yet in AH the only thing the Spit has is a little top end speed. The comments historically were about what a great gun platform the Hurri was compared to the Spit, but to me that also says that it was slower to respond.
The Bf110 is the same.
If the two models are accurate in AH the Brits were nuts to have continued with the Spitfire and should have canceled it in favor of the Hurri (can you imagine a Hurri with a Merlin 66 or Griffon 65?) and the Germans should have canceled the Bf109 abd gone with the much more capable Bf110.
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Originally posted by Karnak
If the two models are accurate in AH the Brits were nuts to have continued with the Spitfire and should have canceled it in favor of the Hurri
Granting that the Hurricane may be overmodeled, I've always found the Spit I to be more capable than the Hurri I, and the Spit V more capable than the Hurri II.
It's those blasted English planes, I tell you, they're all overmodeled!
- oldman
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well then would you consider adding the mossie anyway? please note that my objection is with the HurriIIc not the I or the IId. I'll concede that they are easy enough to defeat 1 v 1 but when the lemmings start hording, ahi yai yai. :D
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Originally posted by storch
well then would you consider adding the mossie anyway?
Anyone know if there were Mosquitos in North Africa?
- oldman
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Originally posted by storch
Grits, I bet that if you play to the best of your ability in a 110C you will beat me in a spitV every time. you would have a little tougher time with me in the Hurri, If you are game I'm willing to try that. provided you can keep slash and duke from interferring in the fight.
The SpitV should easily beat the 110c pilots being equal. If the SpitV loses its the pilots fault not the performance of the 110c. The Hurricane is helpless against the 110C, or just about any other plane because of its slow speed and poor vertical abilities. Co-alt all you have to do is extend/zoom, get above it and the Hurricane is at your mercy, it has no options but to go totally defensive. If you lose to a Hurricane its because you made a mistake that the Hurricane was able to capitalise on.
If you want to test this, the DA is really the place to do it, not the CT.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Anyone know if there were Mosquitos in North Africa?
- oldman
LOL I 'll research it now
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a quick search, (at work)
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmoss2.html
1942, when a B.IV Mosquito was given to Colonel Elliot Roosevelt, the American President's son and commander of a USAAF reconnaissance squadron in North Africa, equipped with Lockheed F-4 Lightning reconnaissance aircraft. The B.IV was faster and had much longer range than the Lockheeds, and Elliot Roosevelt began to press for adopting the British machine.
http://www.rafmarham.co.uk/organisation/39squadron/39shistory.htm
Fighting in North Africa finished on 12th May 1943 and the Squadron moved to Protville near Tunis in June. The Squadron was then re-equipped with Bristol Beaufighter aircraft. The Beaufighter was a twin engined fighter-bomber, with a top speed of 330mph at 14000ft. It was armed with four 20mm cannons and six machine guns, together with torpedoes and bombs.
You might consider the Mossie or A20G as a sub for the Beaufighter;)
http://www.studenten.net/customasp/axl/profile.asp?cat_id=3&ple_id=98
Probably the most versatile aircraft ever made, certainly the most versatile of the Second World War, the De Havilland Mosquito not only was able to perform a wide variety of roles, it excelled in every one of them and did so in a wide variety of climates, from the Russian front to North Africa and Southeast Asia as well as Europe.
Mosquitoes were also built in Canada and Australia and used by the services of those countries and some PR Mosquitoes were used in North Africa and Europe by the United States Army Air Force.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/A3083285
(but they flew Bristol Beaufighters)
June 1943 - January 1944 North African Coastal Air Force
Whilst serving with the North African Coastal Air Force, 219 Squadron took part in providing air cover for the Allied invasion of Sicilly and the Salerno landings on the Italian mainland. During this period it also provided convoy protection.
ok back to work
:D
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Originally posted by Grits
I dont know who joe is, and the only thing I know about Pooface is he is a friendly fragger. Shane is the only one I know and I highly doubt you consistantly beat him in a 1 v 1, maybe once.
I didnt expect you to back up your ludicrous claims, its much easier to live in delusion.
joe is joedog. and pooface is one hell of a spit pilot. I didnt consistantly beat him. I only went head to head with him once in the 110. He was in a La5 and started turning with me while a hurri that was in the area started B&zing me. About 4 mins into it I saw another Hurri coming in low so I pulled hard almost stalling it and light shane up with 20s and 30s he blew up and about 5 secs after that the low hurri came in and blasted me. The first hurri I can only remember his name started with a L and the second hurri was batfink.
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23 squadron flew mossies out of malta to N. Africa
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(work sucks):p this is much more fun
http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_781533664/Royal_Air_Force.html
In North Africa, the Western Desert Air Force came into being as a tactical arm to work with the armies in the field.
Also called 1st TAF, but only references I can find right now show they flew P-40s and Beaufighters (again) we need the Beaufighter in AH
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Originally posted by Airscrew
(work sucks):p this is much more fun
Hey Airscrew, are you in the Cedar Creek area of Dallas, or on Lake Cedar Creek??
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I run a welding and fabrication shop. from time to time online in the shop puter and my guys see me doing this. they think I'm excentric. it's a good thing I can still outwork any one of them when the time comes. and yes this is more fun than work. :D
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Shifty, I'm neither. my Cedar Creek is in Bastrop County, about 15 miles southwest of Austin, sort on the way to Lockhart. my house sets about 18 miles west of Bastrop, 27 miles east of San Marcos.
Storch, even on a bad day your job cant suck as much as mine. I do QA on data from our order and equipment tracking systems before they get turned into invoices for our customers. I do nothing but set at my desk and go numb staring at spreadsheets and fixing other peoples mistakes.
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Ahh man. I love San Marcos! I could spend my whole summer on the river there. If it wasn't for work, bills, children, AH..................
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Can the puff ack be set down lower? Since the bases in this map are really really close you have 88s from 3-5 bases shooting at you right after you roll from your field. Iv been up for two sorties the first I had my wing blown off and the second both my cowl guns damaged. Mabey .10 would be good.
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OM not a problem with keeping the ack at lethal MA levels but please make them stay down at least 1/2 hour. the ackllieds are being, well....ackllieds and it's very frustrating. aside from having to fight spits and hurris with alt advantage they never ever leave the safety of the base or fleets. I know you want to keep vultching down but what is occurring in there today is just plain no fun.
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Originally posted by storch
OM not a problem with keeping the ack at lethal MA levels but please make them stay down at least 1/2 hour. the ackllieds are being, well....ackllieds and it's very frustrating. aside from having to fight spits and hurris with alt advantage they never ever leave the safety of the base or fleets. I know you want to keep vultching down but what is occurring in there today is just plain no fun.
I reduced puffy ack to .15. Low-level ack is still .5 to keep vulchers away.
If people don't want to leave the safety of their ack, possibly you should just take up a holding pattern somewhere outside the range of the base stuff. No particular reason for being that close to the airfields in the first place, is there?
- oldman
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Happy New Year All!
OM, yesterday after you reset the ack, I was blown up over the axis base at 10k, a little to high for an ack kill no?
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considering the fights were at 2k I would call that poetic justice. thanks for posting that it made my day, happy new year. :D
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
Happy New Year All!
OM, yesterday after you reset the ack, I was blown up over the axis base at 10k, a little to high for an ack kill no?
Even at .15, the ack can occasionally hit you.
- oldman
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YW storch, HNY too u to :O
And as you see, I had to fly in axis ack also.
LOL OM I found out the hard way:eek:
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
And as you see, I had to fly in axis ack also.
Axis? Why didnt you call it nazi ack?
Everyone is going to flying in eachothers 88mm FLACK. Storch is talking about the quad 20mm auto ack and 37mm mand ack.
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I didn't call it by it's true name "NAZI" because I thought it upset you the other day:cry
Sad but true, in WWII they were NAZI planes, not German. Hitler ordered them. The german people "I" think, after they saw what a mad man he was
didn't care for him either, but since u so love the NAZI (german manufactured) planes and the truth hurts your feelings, I chose not to mention it.
Why do you post stuff like that? It mkes you look childish:noid
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
I didn't call it by it's true name "NAZI" because I thought it upset you the other day:cry
Sad but true, in WWII they were NAZI planes, not German. Hitler ordered them. The german people "I" think, after they saw what a mad man he was
didn't care for him either, but since u so love the NAZI (german manufactured) planes and the truth hurts your feelings, I chose not to mention it.
Why do you post stuff like that? It mkes you look childish:noid
So all soldiers in Iraq are Republican???:confused:
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Originally posted by TheBug
So all soldiers in Iraq are Republican???:confused:
That's right... and all our planes are Republican planes:huh
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
I didn't call it by it's true name "NAZI" because I thought it upset you the other day:cry
Sad but true, in WWII they were NAZI planes, not German. Hitler ordered them. The german people "I" think, after they saw what a mad man he was
didn't care for him either, but since u so love the NAZI (german manufactured) planes and the truth hurts your feelings, I chose not to mention it.
Why do you post stuff like that? It mkes you look childish:noid
See your all wrong they were german planes. The people who supported hitler were nazis not the planes they flew. Most the people who flew and fought for germany wernt nazis they just fought for thier country. Yesterday you called the planes and US nazis thats why I got upset you stupid ****. And after today Ill retract my challange to meet you in the DA because anyone who chokes in a coalt fight with a 109E in a spit5 and a P40 isnt worth my time. And the only time you got a kill on my today is after me and eagler got done with a fight and Im 20ft off the ground and 100mph and you droped down in your hurri from 6-7k. And if anyone is childish its you, better yet your jsut straight up pathetic. So untill you put up best thing to do is shut up.
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Originally posted by TheBug
So all soldiers in Iraq are Republican???:confused:
Our soldiers in Iraq are American and not Republican because there are two main political parties and many more smaller ones, none of which have totalitarian control of the government. Nazi Germany was just that, a Nazi government that was in total control of everything and everyone in it. Simple fact of the matter is, Kongkyuk is correct, LW planes in WWII were Nazi.
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I get it now, if the republicans were in the white house and had the majority in the house and senate then our planes would be republican planes.
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well I want libertarian planes
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Originally posted by Larry
See your all wrong they were german planes. The people who supported hitler were nazis not the planes they flew. Most the people who flew and fought for germany wernt nazis they just fought for thier country. Yesterday you called the planes and US nazis thats why I got upset you stupid ****. And after today Ill retract my challange to meet you in the DA because anyone who chokes in a coalt fight with a 109E in a spit5 and a P40 isnt worth my time. And the only time you got a kill on my today is after me and eagler got done with a fight and Im 20ft off the ground and 100mph and you droped down in your hurri from 6-7k. And if anyone is childish its you, better yet your jsut straight up pathetic. So untill you put up best thing to do is shut up.
No matter how hard I try, you still post lies and High school verbal judo:rolleyes:
You really need to grow up and when you die just except it:cool
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Originally posted by Grits
Our soldiers in Iraq are American and not Republican because there are two main political parties and many more smaller ones, none of which have totalitarian control of the government. Nazi Germany was just that, a Nazi government that was in total control of everything and everyone in it. Simple fact of the matter is, Kongkyuk is correct, LW planes in WWII were Nazi.
LOL so what you are saying is that every single person that fought for the germans were nazis and so was the machinery they used? If so then yes all the americans fighting over seas right now are Republican because thats whos in power right now. Another question where do you see any nazi symble on LW planes in AH? After asking you know who he said the balkenkreuz (think is spelled it right) is one. Hurry someone tell those "nazis" flying Mig29s today that those are commi planes!!! (http://www.freewebs.com/linkafi/speechless-smiley-034.gif)
Originally posted by Kongkyuk
No matter how hard I try, you still post lies and High school verbal judo
You really need to grow up and when you die just except it
Lies? High school verbal judo? What part of what I wrote is a lie? I dont think OM would have told you to cool it if you just said the LW planes were nazi planes, but you didnt stop there did you? "High school judo" hmmm was that the part were I said you suck and your pathetic? Because I KNOW thats not under the "lie" part. I do accept it when I die, and I also accept that you are timid and scared to get in a co-alt 1 v 1 fight thats why everytime the fight is at 3k you are at 8k picking up everyone elses table scraps. And Im sorry that your still ticked off at JG54 at playing a joke and inviteing you to the squad and then kicking you out after the laugh was over after you pretty much kissing our arses on squad ch. saying Ill do my best and so on. It was almost as funny as when someone invited "LadyAce" to the squad and started picking on AM saying he had a crush on her but after the laugh was over she got the boot. And I hate to say it but I dont know what the GBs were thinking when they took you in but man Iv lost respect for them your more on the lines of a "The FourHOrsemen" pilot.:rofl :rofl :O
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You're embarrassing yourself
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Originally posted by Larry
And Im sorry that your still ticked off at JG54 at playing a joke and inviteing you to the squad and then kicking you out after the laugh was over after you pretty much kissing our arses on squad ch. saying Ill do my best and so on. It was almost as funny as when someone invited "LadyAce" to the squad and started picking on AM saying he had a crush on her but after the laugh was over she got the boot. And I hate to say it but I dont know what the GBs were thinking when they took you in but man Iv lost respect for them your more on the lines of a "The FourHOrsemen" pilot.:rofl :rofl :O
sounds pretty high school to me.
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Originally posted by Larry
I dont think OM would have told you to cool it if you just said the LW planes were nazi planes
:rofl Out of respect for OM, I wont repeat what he said but, It wasn't cool it.
More like dont waste my time with you:D
Enuff said,, you just keep proving my point:noid
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Originally posted by Grits
Our soldiers in Iraq are American and not Republican because there are two main political parties and many more smaller ones, none of which have totalitarian control of the government. Nazi Germany was just that, a Nazi government that was in total control of everything and everyone in it. Simple fact of the matter is, Kongkyuk is correct, LW planes in WWII were Nazi.
Agreed.
When we start painting elephants or donkeys on the tails of our airplanes, maybe we'll justly be called Republicans or Democrats.
I'd expect people would notice that there's a serious difference between Nazi Germany and the U.S.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Grits
Our soldiers in Iraq are American and not Republican because there are two main political parties and many more smaller ones, none of which have totalitarian control of the government. Nazi Germany was just that, a Nazi government that was in total control of everything and everyone in it. Simple fact of the matter is, Kongkyuk is correct, LW planes in WWII were Nazi.
so your saying the planes are called by there goverment? at the time?:huh
so what about planes before Nazis took over are they Nazi planes?
:huh or anyother country plane how about italy ?
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Originally posted by Larry
LOL so what you are saying is that every single person that fought for the germans were nazis and so was the machinery they used?
That is exactly what I am saying, the State of Germany, everything in it, and all of its population was controlled by the Nazi's. This does not mean every person was a Nazi (the Jews werent obviously) but if you were a LW pilot, or a soldier you were flying Nazi planes, driving Nazi tanks, and shooting Nazi weapons. To deny that is to re-write History to suit your own needs.
If so then yes all the americans fighting over seas right now are Republican because thats whos in power right now.[/b]
Republicans are in the Presidency and have both houses of Congress, but they are not the heads of a Totalitarian government. In Nazi Germany, what Hitler wanted is what happened, he was the head of a Totalitarian Dictatorship. Do you even know the difference between a Totalitarian State and a Democracy TK?
Another question where do you see any nazi symble on LW planes in AH? After asking you know who he said the balkenkreuz (think is spelled it right) is one. Hurry someone tell those "nazis" flying Mig29s today that those are commi planes!!![/b]
Are you really that ignorant TK? Are there Swastika's on current German Migs and F-4's? You know why there are no Swastika's on AH planes. The Mig29's that the current LW have are not communist planes because, although built by a Communist country, they are flown by pilots from a Democracy. Any plane in WWII, no matter where it was built, if it had the Swastika on it, it was Nazi. Is that so hard to understand? Do I need to make a picture book for you to understand that?
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Originally posted by simshell
so your saying the planes are called by there goverment? at the time?:huh
so what about planes before Nazis took over are they Nazi planes?
:huh or anyother country plane how about italy ?
See post above. If a plane flew the Swastika it was a Nazi peice of equipment. Its really very simple.
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Since nobody is flying a real airplane. Since it's not a real war. Since it's just a game. Does argueing over this make any sense? All you guys need to come up for air.
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I know this is a game, TK is trying to say real WWII LW planes were not Nazi. I wont sit idle while people try to spin revisionist history to suit their personal beliefs.
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He's a kid. Your a grown man. He's dragging you down bud. He will argue over anything .
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Shifty don’t be a party pooper, nothing more fun than a senseless semantic argument.
We could be discussing a really lame guy attempting to compensate by denigrating players with the “Nazi” label.
What fun is that?
Back to the semantics…
Grits, KY called the in-game planes Nazi.
So Nazis controlled the planes in WWII therefore the planes are Nazi planes.
Conversely
Since the in-game planes are controlled by the players, calling the in-game planes Nazi implies the players are Nazis.
Who you callin’ a Nazi punk!?!?!?:furious
(Told ya this was more fun):cool:
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You're right Shifty.
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Originally posted by KONG1
Shifty don’t be a party pooper, nothing more fun than a senseless semantic argument.
We could be discussing a really lame guy attempting to compensate by denigrating players with the “Nazi” label.
What fun is that?
Back to the semantics…
Grits, KY called the in-game planes Nazi.
So Nazis controlled the planes in WWII therefore the planes are Nazi planes.
Conversely
Since the in-game planes are controlled by the players, calling the in-game planes Nazi implies the players are Nazis.
Who you callin’ a Nazi punk!?!?!?:furious
(Told ya this was more fun):cool:
Your right. If you guys are having fun press on, why should I put my two cents in? Sorry:aok
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dagnabbit shifty you ruined my intellectual stimulus. now i'll be forced to go read machiavelli or something.
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Originally posted by storch
dagnabbit shifty you ruined my intellectual stimulus. now i'll be forced to go read machiavelli or something.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I just had a better idea, instead of complaining about the complaining. I'll just unsubscribe my e-mail from this thread. Again my apologies to all the combatants of this thread.
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Originally posted by Grits
That is exactly what I am saying, the State of Germany, everything in it, and all of its population was controlled by the Nazi's. This does not mean every person was a Nazi (the Jews werent obviously) but if you were a LW pilot, or a soldier you were flying Nazi planes, driving Nazi tanks, and shooting Nazi weapons. To deny that is to re-write History to suit your own needs.
Thats the stupidest thing Iv ever heard they may have benn under nazi control but they all wernt nazi. I guess the people living in Poland ,France, Italy ,ect. during the war were nazi to eh?
Originally posted by Konkyuk
Out of respect for OM, I wont repeat what he said but, It wasn't cool it.
More like dont waste my time with you
Enuff said,, you just keep proving my point
Im talking about what he said in blue text
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Originally posted by KONG1
Who you callin’ a Nazi punk!?!?!?:furious
(Told ya this was more fun):cool: [/B]
You have the best come backs
:rofl :rofl :lol
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
You have the best come backs
You have the best memory:rofl
I guess you were cought in your lie.
(http://www.freewebs.com/linkafi/kong.jpg)
Dont worry the film is uploading for all to see.
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Originally posted by Larry
Dont worry the film is uploading for all to see.
Here's a suggestion:
How about we move any discussion over whether Germans were Nazis into....er....whatever that other forum is, Officers' Club or something....for those who are interested. It's been done before (ask me how I know). In the meantime, can we keep it civil in here? The children are watching, and I am particularly sensitive to this sort of thing in light of the "Kurfurst the Aryan Poodle" problem.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Here's a suggestion:
How about we move any discussion over whether Germans were Nazis into....er....whatever that other forum is, Officers' Club or something....for those who are interested. It's been done before (ask me how I know). In the meantime, can we keep it civil in here? The children are watching, and I am particularly sensitive to this sort of thing in light of the "Kurfurst the Aryan Poodle" problem.
- oldman
So you got a problem with Aryan Poodles?? WTF?!?!?!?!?!?! yOU jst hute thim becaz jermaNY tuuk ovre Franse and uzed the Poodles as gard dogs againsth the ALL-LIES . You always pikc on my sqad becuase we fly teh LuftenShizer plains. You shud be banned:furious
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Here's a suggestion:
How about we move any discussion over whether Germans were Nazis into....er....whatever that other forum is, Officers' Club or something....for those who are interested. It's been done before (ask me how I know). In the meantime, can we keep it civil in here? The children are watching, and I am particularly sensitive to this sort of thing in light of the "Kurfurst the Aryan Poodle" problem.
- oldman
Naw kongkyuk wants to call people nazis then say that they are lieing when they bring it up so Im showing everyone who the real kongkyuk is. And also I have a sneaking suspicion that our little friend here is the old CT lier "AcePappy" becuase right when he left kongkyuk showed up with his BS and lies and "I hate all that is JG54ness"
So here (http://www.freewebs.com/linkafi/Kong.zip) is the film. It starts off with me going afk to go check the mail when I come back I drop down to 10k and head to two cons when I get there I do a bad job at B&zing them, bucause anyone in thier right mind isnt going to give up alt and turn with a Hurri2C and P40 in a 190A5. After a bit they try to RTB. Since I alreay know the hurri is kongk and the P40 is a 325th pilot I let the P40 land and try to get the hurri before he lands. Kurttank(I think thats his name) comes in and pops him and thats when the fun starts so enjoy.
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Originally posted by Slash27
So you got a problem with Aryan Poodles?? WTF?!?!?!?!?!?! yOU jst hute thim becaz jermaNY tuuk ovre Franse and uzed the Poodles as gard dogs againsth the ALL-LIES . You always pikc on my sqad becuase we fly teh LuftenShizer plains. You shud be banned:furious
:rofl :rofl :rofl :aok
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from a purely historical perspective, the question of the Luftwaffes devotion to the nazi party is an interesting question. I think the facts are there for all to avail but deciding on how to "perceive" the facts is what seems to cause the most trouble....
From my studies I have come to understand that the large majority of the pilots in Hitlers Luftwaffe in the 30s and early 40s were very pro Hitler and happy members of the nazi party. Once late 43-mid 1944 rolled around, those Luftwaffe pilots still alive and on active duty were considerably less enthusiastic about the whole affair........of course, they were losing the war and were non to happy about it. Most remained in the nazi party but were doing so in an atmoshpere of implied and demonstrated nazi terror. Many of the officers in the Luftwaffe late in the war showed open contempt and outright insubordination towards Hitler, Goering and the nazi party but they were still providing a valuable service to the Third Reich. Both Steinhoff ("The Final Hours") and Galland ("The First and the Last") wrote after the war attesting to the realities of the time and theirs and many others subsequent regrets at helping to sustain the bloodshed once they realized Hitlers insanity.
In summary: The end of the German Luftwafe found the survivors merely operating on the simplistic principle that they were now defending their homes and families from the aggression of the allied air armadas. They knew the war was lost yet were determined to fight on, as was their "Job", their "assignment".
It is not a unique problem for one to find themselves in and merely reflects the tragedy of war. One side wins, the other loses. The loser is left to describe why he continued to fight in the face of defeat.
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Originally posted by Yeager
From my studies I have come to understand that the large majority of the pilots in Hitlers Luftwaffe in the 30s and early 40s were very pro Hitler and happy members of the nazi party.
I wonder where you get your studies from :rolleyes:
"Nazi members with military ambitions were encouraged to join the Waffen SS, but a great number enlisted in the Wehrmacht and even more were drafted for service after World War II began. Early regulations required that all Wehrmacht members be non-political, and therefore any National Socialist member joining in the 1930s was required to resign from the Nazi Party."
Wehrmacht includes the Luftwaffe in case your studies missed that part too.
"Maximum total membership in the Nazi Party was 8.5 million. This was about ten percent of the total German population (calculated to include Austrians, Sudetenland Germans and Volksdeutsche from annexed and occuped areas who were treated as citizens) of about 85 million. The total number of Germans who served in any branch of the armed services between 1939 and 1945 was over 23 million (Wehrmacht 17,893,200, Luftwaffe 3,400,000, Kriegsmarine 1,500,000 and Waffen SS 1,000,000).
"Forgetting the fact that millions of Nazi party members were women and non-military service men, it is mathematically impossible for the "German army" to be "mostly Nazi" as claimed.
Mostly Nazis in the Waffen SS, yeah you may have a point. In the "professional" branches of the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine, you are full of it. That is not to say they did not support the Nazi Regime. But judging by the fervor of their fighting, how could you possibly believe they fought for a political party, instead of the defense of their nation. They were Germans, fighting for Germany. To deem them at the gunpoint of the Nazi Party reeks of revisionism to me, I don't let them off the hook that easily. But I won't also quickly dismiss their reasoning for going to war either.
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Originally posted by Larry
It starts off with me going afk to go check the mail when I come back I drop down to 10k and head to two cons when I get there I do a bad job at B&zing them, bucause anyone in thier right mind isnt going to give up alt and turn with a Hurri2C and P40 in a 190A5. After a bit they try to RTB. Since I alreay know the hurri is kongk and the P40 is a 325th pilot I let the P40 land and try to get the hurri before he lands. Kurttank(I think thats his name) comes in and pops him and thats when the fun starts so enjoy. [/B]
Well I'm glad you posted this. I've been meaning to explain my views of you.
You continue to post one sided views of all encounters, not only with me but with others. As you state in your post, you had alt and the advantage, (which you should strive to achieve everytime you go up, thats a good thing).
Now everytime we engage one of us has had the advantage. When I do you die and when you do I die. The difference here is, I don't get upset. It is usually a good fight and I like to learn from anyone I fight. You on the other hand go ballistic and call me names for killing you, exp: I used the ack, I had the alt, I ho'd you, I had the e, I had a wingman, you snuck up on me, I fly an uber plane, on and on and on. I like the CT because most of the pilots are very good and you and I are good pilots. You on the other hand think you are the BEST. You aren't, your good. The problem most all of us have with you, is your arrogant, nasty, rude, inconsiderate demenor. Clean up your High school attitude and we all would have a nicer time in the CT. It's a GAME.
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kongkyuk has 7 kills on truekill
truekill has 6 kills on kongkyuk
From the player Vs. player stats for December 05
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
Well I'm glad you posted this. I've been meaning to explain my views of you.
You continue to post one sided views of all encounters, not only with me but with others. As you state in your post, you had alt and the advantage, (which you should strive to achieve everytime you go up, thats a good thing).
Now everytime we engage one of us has had the advantage. When I do you die and when you do I die. The difference here is, I don't get upset. It is usually a good fight and I like to learn from anyone I fight. You on the other hand go ballistic and call me names for killing you, exp: I used the ack, I had the alt, I ho'd you, I had the e, I had a wingman, you snuck up on me, I fly an uber plane, on and on and on. I like the CT because most of the pilots are very good and you and I are good pilots. You on the other hand think you are the BEST. You aren't, your good. The problem most all of us have with you, is your arrogant, nasty, rude, inconsiderate demenor. Clean up your High school attitude and we all would have a nicer time in
the CT. It's a GAME.
I guess you didnt watch the film did you? I had the alt yes but when came back I droped about 5K and heading for yall. Nope try again because two fights the other day were co alt and I won both of them. No I dont go ballistic and call you names. All I say is you need the alt to get a kill and its a fact. And In no ****ing way did I ever think or say Im the best. Yes Im good and mabey better then half the people in the CT because I can fight 1 v 1 and dont need help you OTOH cant. Yes most dont like me because of the way I ask and I could care less what yall think. WOW you just said its a game I guess you didnt see the screenshot I posted eather.
kongkyuk has 7 kills on truekill
truekill has 6 kills on kongkyuk
From the player Vs. player stats for December 05
:rofl Wow what does that show? That you have 7 picks on me. But I know for sure that 3 of my kills on you were 1 v 1 oh wait only 2 because that one I vulched you 2K away from your base on take off :rofl :rofl
How about you try this when you log on and see a JG54 member on you dont start blabing on talking watermelon when we are flying around having fun and none of this crap would happen.
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That is not to say they did not support the Nazi Regime. But judging by the fervor of their fighting, how could you possibly believe they fought for a political party, instead of the defense of their nation. They were Germans, fighting for Germany. To deem them at the gunpoint of the Nazi Party reeks of revisionism to me,
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Bug,
I want to emphasize what you said here:
"how could you possibly believe they fought for a political party, instead of the defense of their nation. They were Germans, fighting for Germany."
You seem to imply here that Germany was simply defending itself and was not guilty of aggression against all of europe?
You do understand that Germany was not defending against Poland, France, England and Russia when they attacked these countries?
You do understand that all these countries were attacked by Germany without any prior military provacation? Attacked and invaded (with the exception of England which defeated the Luftwaffe at the Battle of Britain).
You know all this, correct?
The invasion of Poland, France and Russia could not have happened without the aid of the Luftwaffe. The Luftwaffe, or the Wehrmacht, were doing the bidding of Adolph Hitler and are equally culpable in the mass death and destruction wrought by nazism as Hitler is himself.
The reality is that the "masses" of the great German military machine, the great Wehrmacht, may not have been card carrying members of the Nazi party, but they were all accomplices of Nazism and are equally guilty of crimes against all of civilization as resolved in the second world war.
In the "final days" as Steinhoff called them, Germans were simply fighting for their own personal survival......their cause was facism and they were defeated by the allies. Like I said previously. We cannot absolve Germany for the misery it generated simply because Germany lost the war.
" They were Germans, fighting for Germany."
You simply cannot change this reality.
The part of your post that really hits home for me is this, and I qoute you:
"But I won't also quickly dismiss their reasoning for going to war either."
I think I missed that part in history class. Why did Hitler invade Poland, France, Russia, attack England and declare war on the United States?
Give me your spin on it.......
Also, how many human beings died because of Hitler, Germany and Facism during the second world war? Do you have the numbers?
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Speaking of the Nazi Party, if they were all for sending these two to the gas chambers I think I'd be a member in heartbeat. That's based just on their poor spelling alone.
There is a master race, it's just exactly what defines it that is in question. I believe reading posts on this forum makes it clearer and clearer everyday. We must stop them from spawning, they are clearly playing the numbers game.
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tell me more about this "master race" bug.
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Originally posted by Larry
I had the alt yes No I dont go ballistic and call you names. All I say is you need the alt to get a kill and its a fact. And In no ****ing way did I ever think or say Im the best. Yes Im good and mabey better then half the people in the CT because I can fight 1 v 1 and dont need help you OTOH cant. Yes most dont like me because of the way I ask and I could care less what yall think. WOW you just said its a game I guess you didnt see the screenshot I posted eather.
Sigh,, you will never grow up :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Yeager
Give me your spin on it.......
Also, how many human beings died because of Hitler, Germany and Facism during the second world war? Do you have the numbers?
I'll give you my spin... First off Germany only attacked Poland. France and England declared war on Germany first. You really are illiterate when it comes to history. They invaded Poland in manuevering to attack their truly, perceived enemy communist Russia. Strangely the same power that the US spent billions of dollars over 50 years fighting during the cold war. Strangely the same power that invaded Poland sixteen days after the Germans, yet become our Allies.
Again I am in no way supportive of what Germany did, but I think a lot of people, clearly you, don't have a true picture of what really happened and are only blinded by the true energy that was used to build evil regimes like Nazi Germany, that is Propoganda.
Please don't misunderstand my dislike of your ignorance as support of the evil crimes committed by the Germans. But as quick as we are as a nation to justify our "liberation" of Iraq, I think the Germans had a much longer, again perceived, list of reasons to go to war. But I'm a firm believer no matter how you slice it, whether for tyrants or elected leaders war is evil.
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Originally posted by Yeager
tell me more about this "master race" bug.
It will be IQ based, with a strong work ethic, correct spelling is a must, although we will excuse grammatical mistakes. There will be no distinctions based upon race, color or creed. Sexual orientation is of no matter. Basically if you are an overweight, lazy, disrespectful, handsomehunk you are going to the chambers before you can contaminate the gene pool.
None of that is directed at you Yeager, just answering your question.
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You really are illiterate when it comes to history.
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Well....hehe, I havent been to a history indoctrination class in a few years. I can get the data easily enough.
You are correct on this point. England and France sent Hitler an Ultimatum to withdraw from Poland on Sept 1. Hilter invaded Poland in a secret pact with Stalin. Was risky and dicey and led to War. Fair enough. Hitlers facist nazi
aggression got him busted and started world war two.
What did Nazi Germany want with Russia? Oil?
This ones a real dinger though:
"but I think a lot of people, clearly you, don't have a true picture of what really happened and are only blinded by the true energy that was used to build evil regimes like Nazi Germany"
True Energy!
Man fill me in on this! Tell me more about true energy being used to build evil regimes!
Is this true energy the stuff that got us involved in Iraq? Who controls the true energy? Is the US a evil regime?
Who is the head honcho of the master race?
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You really are illiterate when it comes to history.
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Well....hehe, I havent been to a history indoctrination class in a few years. I can get the data easily enough.
Apparently not that easily
You are correct on this point. England and France sent Hitler an Ultimatum to withdraw from Poland on Sept 1. Hilter invaded Poland in a secret pact with Stalin. Was risky and dicey and led to War. Fair enough. Hitlers facist nazi
aggression got him busted and started world war two.
What did Nazi Germany want with Russia? Oil?
Seeing as how WWII is considered just a continuation of WWI, a purely imperialistic war, I think it is obvious what Germany wanted. I leave that to you to actually truly go and do some "studies".
For extra credit: What did the US want with Russia?
This ones a real dinger though:
"but I think a lot of people, clearly you, don't have a true picture of what really happened and are only blinded by the true energy that was used to build evil regimes like Nazi Germany"
True Energy!
Man fill me in on this! Tell me more about true energy being used to build evil regimes!
I named it, it's called propoganda and it fills your head.
Is this true energy the stuff that got us involved in Iraq?
Well, yes and no. It is used to make the people accept the imperialistic, money grabbing nature of the war.
Who controls the true energy?
Whomever spins it the best.
Is the US a evil regime?
This one I like the best and sums this debate up better than anything else. The answer is-- Depends on who you ask. Make sense?
Yeager so far this debate has been you making false statements, starting with your false claims from your so called studies, followed up by my factual disputes to your claims. Yes I have tossed in a bit of personal opinions here and there, but no blatant BS like you. So in the spirit of a good debate I suggest you go back and refresh your "studies" and then come back. Maybe at that point you will have something a little bit closer to the truth to type. Other than that I'm calling it quits here, you win. I think it is an interesting topic of debate, but am also aware of the fact that it can become too heated. Have a great New Year Yeager and please understand I did not mean to project any negative feelings towards you, it was just a debate and I appreciate your keeping a level head
Who is the head honcho of the master race?
Well me of course! Sheesh..... I thought that was obvious.:aok
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Originally posted by Larry
You have the best memory:rofl
I guess you were cought in your lie.
(http://www.freewebs.com/linkafi/kong.jpg)
Dont worry the film is uploading for all to see.
actuall the two lines above say a lot too:lol
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hehe.....its all cool bug.
Keepin somewhat on topic:
Seeing as how WWII is considered just a continuation of WWI, a purely imperialistic war, I think it is obvious what Germany wanted.
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I would have preferred an answer, even a simple one, since you are on the educating side of this discussion.
I named it, it's called propoganda and it fills your head.
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nah...too simple. True Energy is magificent and grand. Used for good, not bad. Propoganda is spin and is used to mislead and decieve (sort of like your answers to my questions). You need to find a better name for it, or just call it what it is, propoganda.
Well, yes and no. It is used to make the people accept the imperialistic, money grabbing nature of the war.
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War is much more than simple imperialism and money. I was hoping for an answer from you on this one, rather than simple rhetoric.
Whomever spins it the best.
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Much more here than meets the proverbial eye. Spin is powerful and can often defeat the truth, unless the truth has the power of conviction to combat the lies supported in spin, or propoganda.
This one I like the best and sums this debate up better than anything else. The answer is-- Depends on who you ask. Make sense?
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only depends on who is victorious and who prevails in the conflict. It didnt matter what any nazi war criminal thought. They were tried, judged and sentenced according to the victors terms.
Yeager so far this debate has been you making false statements, starting with your false claims from your so called studies, followed up by my factual disputes to your claims.
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My studies are me reading and watching...listening, observing (this includes talking with people like you on the internet). If I dont have all the facts before me then fine, easy enough to amend. All the data needed for a thoughtful and reasoned decision on any valid historical topic is readily available to anyone seeking the facts.
You do not have control of the facts and I honestly dont see a whole lot of "fact" presented by you or any real counters to the majority of what I have said in this thread regarding nazism and the Luftwaffe.
The bottom line is the german military machine fought at the complicit direction of Adolph Hitler and as such is a full and vested accomplice to the crimes of Adolph Hitler, his Nazi party, the Third Reich...the whole stroodle, as it were.
Well me of course! Sheesh.....
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Oh good! for a minute there I thought I had missed the master race boat :aok
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Originally posted by Bear76
actuall the two lines above say a lot too:lol
That why I posted the film also go on watch it. Oh wait then your post will look stupid dont click on the link.
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Originally posted by Larry
I guess you didnt watch the film did you? I had the alt yes but when came back I droped about 5K and heading for yall. Nope try again because two fights the other day were co alt and I won both of them. No I dont go ballistic and call you names. All I say is you need the alt to get a kill and its a fact. And In no ****ing way did I ever think or say Im the best. Yes Im good and mabey better then half the people in the CT because I can fight 1 v 1 and dont need help you OTOH cant. Yes most dont like me because of the way I ask and I could care less what yall think. WOW you just said its a game I guess you didnt see the screenshot I posted eather.
:rofl Wow what does that show? That you have 7 picks on me. But I know for sure that 3 of my kills on you were 1 v 1 oh wait only 2 because that one I vulched you 2K away from your base on take off :rofl :rofl
How about you try this when you log on and see a JG54 member on you dont start blabing on talking watermelon when we are flying around having fun and none of this crap would happen.
Hey TK, YOU ARE A PIECE OF ****E, AND THAT'S A FACT. I REMEMBER YOU ACTUALLY CHANGED SIDES JUST SO YOU CAN KILL ME BECAUSE ALL OF U JG IDIOTS WERE CHASING MY PONY AND I WAS OUTNUMBERED. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THIS, THAT YOU ****S LIKE TO SPAT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S TACTICS OTHER THAN YOUR OWN. I'VE SEEN PLENTY OF YOU ****S GRAB ALT, EXTEND TO DRAG, GANG UP, VULCH, HEAVEN FORBID IF ANYONE ELSE TRIES. MY REMEDY, I DON'T TALK IN CHANNEL 200, I IGNORE ANYTHING YOU GUYS POST IN THE GAME, AND SEEK 0UT AND DESTROY EVERY JG THAT I CAN FIND
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I just want to point out that several of JG54 (Soda, Stat, Tbarone, Tankman) are good guys, lets not paint them all with the same brush. Only a select few in JG54 give them the poor reputation they have.
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Originally posted by XAKL
Hey TK, YOU ARE A PIECE OF ****E, AND THAT'S A FACT. I REMEMBER YOU ACTUALLY CHANGED SIDES JUST SO YOU CAN KILL ME BECAUSE ALL OF U JG IDIOTS WERE CHASING MY PONY AND I WAS OUTNUMBERED. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THIS, THAT YOU ****S LIKE TO SPAT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S TACTICS OTHER THAN YOUR OWN. I'VE SEEN PLENTY OF YOU ****S GRAB ALT, EXTEND TO DRAG, GANG UP, VULCH, HEAVEN FORBID IF ANYONE ELSE TRIES. MY REMEDY, I DON'T TALK IN CHANNEL 200, I IGNORE ANYTHING YOU GUYS POST IN THE GAME, AND SEEK 0UT AND DESTROY EVERY JG THAT I CAN FIND
WOW someone get that guy some pills or atlease some tang my god. I dont know who the hell you are let alone ever did what you said. Let me guess some tard that steped in the CT more then a year ago during one of our "Kill anything that moves and some things that dont" missions and flew into our horde. The only times I change sides is when allies are outnumered or I feel like flying something that doesnt stall on takeoff. How about you come into the CT tomarrow and well all get together and gang you again for old times sake. Hows that sound?(http://www.freewebs.com/linkafi/speechless-smiley-034.gif)
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I can't wait to see this clip, It wont open on the work computer :(
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Originally posted by Grits
I just want to point out that several of JG54 (Soda, Stat, Tbarone, Tankman) are good guys, lets not paint them all with the same brush. Only a select few in JG54 give them the poor reputation they have.
Umm you forgot a few, best thing to say is all JG sept TK storch VWE and sometimes N7 are good guys the others are why noone comes to the CT because we have big mouths and like to talk trash.
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If it makes you feel better, yes, you are one of the select few I was talking about that give JG54 their bad reputation.
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you JG54 guys all fly well together and its definately impressive. I am always humbled by a group of 109s, 110s and 190s flying in comms and with the tactical advantage.
It is fun and makes the game worth playing.
It would be nice if more people took the high road and stayed away from all the smack talking and personal insults. Im no angel myself, as many can attest to, but I prefer the game without the smack talking. Always have, but I can, and will, join in with laughable smack when the need arises :aok
Anyway, I have really enjoyed my past few weeks back in game and look forward to some good fights in the future.
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Originally posted by Grits
If it makes you feel better, yes, you are one of the select few I was talking about that give JG54 their bad reputation.
woohoo I just made alittle edit to my avatar you like it? I hope you do you know me careing what other people think.:lol
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
I can't wait to see this clip, It wont open on the work computer :(
I'll give you a wrap up. TK shoots at you and misses a few times. You rtb after a bit. TK waits till you are low and slow on the runway. TK flies into the ack and lands some hits on you.
Im not sure what the plot of the film was. The acting wa so-so but the special effects were top notch.:aok
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Originally posted by Yeager
you JG54 guys all fly well together and its definately impressive. I am always humbled by a group of 109s, 110s and 190s flying in comms and with the tactical advantage.
It is fun and makes the game worth playing.
It would be nice if more people took the high road and stayed away from all the smack talking and personal insults. Im no angel myself, as many can attest to, but I prefer the game without the smack talking. Always have, but I can, and will, join in with laughable smack when the need arises :aok
Anyway, I have really enjoyed my past few weeks back in game and look forward to some good fights in the future.
Yes we sometimes fly together but more of lately we've been fighting 1 v 1s or other fights when the numbers in the fight are even but theres always going to be those people who just hear jg54 and just assume that they got vulched or ganged or picked by us in the past that, thats all we do. And hell yes we trash talk its part of all games to do so. But we dont take it has far as youv seen in what I posted. If you knew me instead of assumeing everything youd konw I hate HOing but Ill do it if I have to. Vulching eather when Im pissed or if we are base taking. Gang only if I was just ganged by that person. And I ALWAY and I mean ALWAY ask before jumping in even in the MA.
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Originally posted by Slash27
I give you a wrap up. TK shoots at you and misses a few times. You rtb after a bit. TK waits till you are low and slow on the runway. TK flies into the ack and lands some hits on you.
Im not sure what the plot of the film was. The acting wa so-so but the special effects were top notch.:aok
I knew I should have rehursed more! I wanted to even have some fireworks shoot out the bellybutton of my plane but Mr. Spielberg thought it was to dangerous and we were already over the budget.:mad: :cry
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Its interesting that you bring this 1 vs 1 thing up.
As long as Ive been around, 1 vs 1 was done in the dueling arena, or away from any frontline action. In the CT, as well as the main, its always been who was in best position to attack, attacked, and the more the merrier.
I for one am always happy to share credit but I feel that I have sometimes barged in on private fights......without even knowing it. No one says anything until afterwards.
I dont think thats what the CT was designed for, but I am willing to learn new things, so please clue me in on the CT 1 vs 1 thing......
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Well, like I said, not everyone in JG54 is "ruining" the CT but if you want to wear that title with pride, you have most definately earned it. You claim to love the CT, yet you (and a couple others) have done more to harm it than anyone else. Maybe you should care what others think of you, but then you would be forced to stop acting like a child.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Its interesting that you bring this 1 vs 1 thing up.
As long as Ive been around, 1 vs 1 was done in the dueling arena, or away from any frontline action. In the CT, as well as the main, its always been who was in best position to attack, attacked, and the more the merrier.
I for one am always happy to share credit but I feel that I have sometimes barged in on private fights......without even knowing it. No one says anything until afterwards.
I dont think thats what the CT was designed for, but I am willing to learn new things, so please clue me in on the CT 1 vs 1 thing......
Yes the DA is for 1v1 duels, but some of us like to come into the CT find a enemy and have a good fight with him not get in a fight and get blasted but 5 other enemys while turning OTD. I kinda see the CT as a mix of DA and SEA were sometimes there are 4-5 1 v 1s going on and sometimes theres to big groups on each side and they bash into each other making a fun furball. I dont think you were ever in one or our Thursday Night Missions but those were when the CT was the most fun IMO it was a pre TOD thing with 50+ people in it every week.
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Originally posted by Grits
Well, like I said, not everyone in JG54 is "ruining" the CT but if you want to wear that title with pride, you have most definately earned it. You claim to love the CT, yet you (and a couple others) have done more to harm it than anyone else. Maybe you should care what others think of you, but then you would be forced to stop acting like a child.
But heres the thing I dont know how a bunch of harmless trashtalking ruins an arena last time I looked MA was still around. But OTOH CT inst the MA, but because there are so few numbers in the MA people take it a bit more personal. Some people think they are going to come into the CT and everyones going to be kinda and gentlemanly but it will never be like that even if all the bad apples are kicked out there will always be others. I may ask like a child well mabey thats because im still part childish and immature, but I bet you had your act together at 19 eh? How bout this we agree to meet in 20 or so years mabey then Ill act grown and mature.
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Ok thanks, that helps.....
:D
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hot damn, looks like it's time for me to get back to flying the CT and put some slobberdonkeys in their place.
again.
:rofl
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If only you fly the 190 again that was funny seeing you whine on CH. 200 becuase you kept stalling out:rofl
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Originally posted by Yeager
Ok thanks, that helps.....
:D
Yeah Yeager, you should have flown the CT way back when:rofl
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Originally posted by Larry
That why I posted the film also go on watch it. Oh wait then your post will look stupid dont click on the link.
well I'm sure your next post will out do mine.
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Originally posted by Larry
woohoo I just made alittle edit to my avatar you like it? I hope you do you know me careing what other people think.:lol
Heck I'm just happy you got the spelling right:D
For someone who doesn't care what others think, you spend a lot of time replying to it?:confused:
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Originally posted by Yeager
Its interesting that you bring this 1 vs 1 thing up.
As long as Ive been around, 1 vs 1 was done in the dueling arena, or away from any frontline action. In the CT, as well as the main, its always been who was in best position to attack, attacked, and the more the merrier.
I for one am always happy to share credit but I feel that I have sometimes barged in on private fights......without even knowing it. No one says anything until afterwards.
I dont think thats what the CT was designed for, but I am willing to learn new things, so please clue me in on the CT 1 vs 1 thing......
for the most part, Yeager, it is due to the fact of the LOW #s in the CT, it is very easy for one side to become lopsided in just a cple of minutes and 1 finds him self in a 4 or 5 vs 1, doesn't happen much though, mostly 1 vs 1's and 2 or 3 vs 1's...... most people will ask if you need help, some don't. Others know when they see you introuble and ask that you are too busy to reply with an answer because you doing all you can to stay alive:D
is nothing like back when Gremlin & Urchin and the rest flew in the CT, but it does have its moments, and lately they have been plentiful......
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Originally posted by Larry
Originally posted by Konkyuk
Out of respect for OM, I wont repeat what he said but, It wasn't cool it.
More like dont waste my time with you
Enuff said,, you just keep proving my point
Im talking about what he said in blue text [/B]
Your post finally showed up on my screen. I was refering to what he said verbally.
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Originally posted by Larry
woohoo I just made alittle edit to my avatar you like it? I hope you do you know me careing what other people think.:lol
LOL one day TK you'll grow up.:rofl
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Originally posted by Larry
But heres the thing I dont know how a bunch of harmless trashtalking ruins an arena last time I looked MA was still around. But OTOH CT inst the MA, but because there are so few numbers in the MA people take it a bit more personal. Some people think they are going to come into the CT and everyones going to be kinda and gentlemanly but it will never be like that even if all the bad apples are kicked out there will always be others. I may ask like a child well mabey thats because im still part childish and immature, but I bet you had your act together at 19 eh? How bout this we agree to meet in 20 or so years mabey then Ill act grown and mature.
I will hold out the possibility that there are sado-masochists who enjoy being insulted, and that some of them fly in the CT. Generally, though, I don't think most people like to be insulted. Consequently the trash-talking detracts from the experience, if it's aimed at you.
If you're the one doing the aiming, I guess I just don't understand why insulting someone would make you enjoy the game more.
- oldman
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Originally posted by TheBug
But judging by the fervor of their fighting, how could you possibly believe they fought for a political party, instead of the defense of their nation. They were Germans, fighting for Germany. To deem them at the gunpoint of the Nazi Party reeks of revisionism to me, I don't let them off the hook that easily. But I won't also quickly dismiss their reasoning for going to war either.
Heh. I think it was Charon who first pointed out that the German fliers were "defending" Germany over Warsaw, Norway, Denmark, France, England, Belgrade, Moscow...you get the idea.
That they were "Germans fighting for Germany" doesn't somehow make it honorable that they were fighting to conquer Europe and subject it to the rule of the Nazi party - which they had voluntarily adopted as their own government, and which they appeared very happy to follow up until the war started going the wrong way.
- Oldman (sorry....couldn't help myself....)
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Originally posted by Oldman731
I will hold out the possibility that there are sado-masochists who enjoy being insulted, and that some of them fly in the CT. Generally, though, I don't think most people like to be insulted. Consequently the trash-talking detracts from the experience, if it's aimed at you.
If you're the one doing the aiming, I guess I just don't understand why insulting someone would make you enjoy the game more.
- oldman
The same reason schoolyard bullies do it. They lack self esteem and it makes them feel better about themselves to redirect that negativity onto someone else.
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Originally posted by Grits
The same reason schoolyard bullies do it. They lack self esteem and it makes them feel better about themselves to redirect that negativity onto someone else.
Shut up Grits, you maggot infested, horse pleasuring, crackbaby.
Wow, that did make me feel better! Now I know why I got pushed around so much when I was in school, it feels wicked awesome. I feel like a big tough man now.
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I guess yall are to up tight and bitter to understard that its funny to see people get pissed that someone called them a tard in a game, and its makes it a easyer fight since it clouds thier judgement and they cant fight as well.
You didnt answer my question grits.
Bear since you care to just look at one side then post Konkyuk and Joedog were fighting me I was B&Zing in my 190 they tryed to go land knowing the hurri was kongkyuk i wasnt going to let that happen because I knew the next sorite he would have been at 20k so I want in after him. He may have been landing but I didnt even see his gear down. I think it was just his way of runing to the ack because he didnt have the alt. Hell I didnt even get the kill on him the other guy did.
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Originally posted by Larry
You didnt answer my question grits.
If you must know, at 19 I was working full time and going to college full time. I was on a partial athletic scholarship, but I paid for most of it by working. I lived on my own, and paid all my expenses without help from my parents.
So, yes, I think I was a bit more mature than you at 19. One thing is for sure, I didnt have time to play games on the intardnet all day long.
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Originally posted by Grits
If you must know, at 19 I was working full time and going to college full time. I was on a partial athletic scholarship, but I paid for most of it by working. I lived on my own, and paid all my expenses without help from my parents.
So, yes, I think I was a bit more mature than you at 19. One thing is for sure, I didnt have time to play games on the intardnet all day long.
WTG on that then
Mabey since my dad was out on his own at 14 and had to work his bellybutton off to live he is liting my sisters and I have it more easy. I for one am trying to find a job in this hicktown so I can try to inroll in ITT tech in houston. After that I would love to join marines, but my parents want me to finnish my schooling.
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Originally posted by Larry
WTG on that then
Mabey since my dad was out on his own at 14 and had to work his bellybutton off to live he is liting my sisters and I have it more easy. I for one am trying to find a job in this hicktown so I can try to inroll in ITT tech in houston. After that I would love to join marines, but my parents want me to finnish my schooling.
Sigh, that film won't open:(
Hey is Larry, maybe, telling the truth in this post?
19 for real?:huh
That explains ALOT, I will treat him way different, does anyone know for sure?
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Right click and save as for the film its ziped so I could uplaod it.
Yes everything I said was true if my parents didnt talk me into geting all my schooling done I would have joined when I turned 19 (take a year off to screw around) I really want to be in the air eather a helo or fixed wing ,but I wouldnt mind geting dirty on the ground.
Heres a pic of me from a thread yucca started in GD forum
(http://www.freewebs.com/linkafi/me.jpg)
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
That explains ALOT, I will treat him way different, does anyone know for sure?
(oldman looks at photo of TK)
(smacks Kongkyuk across the face with dead carp)
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
(oldman looks at photo of TK)
(smacks Kongkyuk across the face with dead carp)
- oldman
A CARP!?! a tuna would have been better.
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Originally posted by Larry
I guess yall are to up tight and bitter to understard that its funny to see people get pissed that someone called them a tard in a game, and its makes it a easyer fight since it clouds thier judgement and they cant fight as well.
You didnt answer my question grits.
Bear since you care to just look at one side then post Konkyuk and Joedog were fighting me I was B&Zing in my 190 they tryed to go land knowing the hurri was kongkyuk i wasnt going to let that happen because I knew the next sorite he would have been at 20k so I want in after him. He may have been landing but I didnt even see his gear down. I think it was just his way of runing to the ack because he didnt have the alt. Hell I didnt even get the kill on him the other guy did.
I'm not talking about who did what and I really don't care. You're missing the point. Responding to every post you don't like, the way you have been, isn't doing you any good. It makes you look foolish. As for your statement that it's funny to call people names to get them upset, well that is childish and from the posts here, I'd say people making fun of you is having the same effect.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Oldman731
(oldman looks at photo of TK)
(smacks Kongkyuk across the face with dead carp)
- oldman
outch!!!! I'm sry:O
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
outch!!!! I'm sry:O
OMG:O
Once wasn't enuff pls HIT me Again:cry Again:cry Again:cry Again:cry
one more:cry
That takes the cake! You win Larry :aok
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Originally posted by Kongkyuk
OMG:O
Once wasn't enuff pls HIT me Again:cry Again:cry Again:cry Again:cry
one more:cry
That takes the cake! You win Larry :aok
Great OM now hes ganna be hunping your leg wanting more.:lol
I'd say people making fun of you is having the same effect.
Nope I dont get mad about that but whe someone takes it to far thats when it gets my blood boiling. And the calling people names my be childish but hell even youv done it before so dont act like your a little angel.
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I'd say people making fun of you is having the same effect.
Nope I dont get mad about that but whe someone takes it to far thats when it gets my blood boiling. And the calling people names my be childish but hell even youv done it before so dont act like your a little angel. [/B][/QUOTE]
Never said I was and angel :D
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NOT YOU1!1!
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(http://www.487thvirtual.com/modules/gallery/albums/Wonton/Stop_the_Insanity_F.jpg)
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Originally posted by Larry
I guess yall are to up tight and bitter to understard that its funny to see people get pissed that someone called them a tard in a game, and its makes it a easyer fight since it clouds thier judgement and they cant fight as well.
.
ok, Ill bite. So why do you,Storch,and N7 squeal like little piglets when you get shot down?
btw get a job!!!
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh. I think it was Charon who first pointed out that the German fliers were "defending" Germany over Warsaw, Norway, Denmark, France, England, Belgrade, Moscow...you get the idea.
That they were "Germans fighting for Germany" doesn't somehow make it honorable that they were fighting to conquer Europe and subject it to the rule of the Nazi party - which they had voluntarily adopted as their own government, and which they appeared very happy to follow up until the war started going the wrong way.
- Oldman (sorry....couldn't help myself....)
I never intended to make it sound honorable. My point is they were Germans fighting, not Nazis. As you say they chose that goverment. We still refer to the French when we speak of the Napoleonic Wars don't we? Or how about the English during the Revolutionary war? My whole point was that I blame the GERMANS, not the Nazis, hence they were GERMAN planes. When I speak of "Germans defending Germany" I am speaking of their mindset, not necessarily my perception of what they were doing. Remember though the best defense is a good offense, and we did end up fighting the Russians for 50years. The effects of which still fill the headlines today.
Now leave me alone, I've got wargame moves to finish. At least I can try to conquer the world digitally, muhaha!!!
Crown Bug '06 :aok
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Originally posted by Larry
Heres a pic of me from a thread yucca started in GD forum
That's not a piercing below your lower lip is it?? Dude if that is that has to be one of the gayest things I've seen in this forum.
Is that legal for males to do that in Texas??
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Originally posted by Slash27
ok, I bite.
ain't that the truth.
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Originally posted by TheBug
That's not a piercing below your lower lip is it?? Dude if that is that has to be one of the gayest things I've seen in this forum.
Is that legal for males to do that in Texas??
wow, I missed that. No wonder Storch is so fond of the little guy.
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Originally posted by Larry
Great OM now hes ganna be hunping your leg wanting more.:lol
I'd say people making fun of you is having the same effect.
Nope I dont get mad about that but whe someone takes it to far thats when it gets my blood boiling. And the calling people names my be childish but hell even youv done it before so dont act like your a little angel.
LOLOL:D
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Originally posted by Slash27
wow, I miss that wonder Storch I is fond of the little guy.
why thank you slash.
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Originally posted by Slash27
wow, I missed that. No wonder Storch is so fond of the little guy.
Hehe that explains the paper towel in the background. A required item for JG 54 squad nights.
:eek:
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My point is they were Germans fighting, not Nazis.
My whole point was that I blame the GERMANS, not the Nazis, hence they were GERMAN planes.
====
Its an interesting point of view bug.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Its an interesting point of view bug.
You forgot an apostrophe Yeager.:D
See I'm looking out for you, you will make into the Master Race yet!
Actually I am beginning to grow rather fond of you Yeager;)
Have you always gone by the same handle?
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apostophies are fer wussies bug :D
I only use them when Im addressing royalty :aok
I actually registered on this board as Yeager in sept 99 but I had a problem after some sort of bbs upgrade and had to restart my account back in 2001, I think.....just look at the stats under my name. It should say...
<---
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Originally posted by TheBug
Hehe that explains the paper towel in the background. A required item for JG 54 squad nights.
:eek:
LMAO I would say I had wings that day but yours is better.:rofl
Yep I have one in my eyebrow and LEFT ear your just mad because you cant pull it off so :p