Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Scenario General => Topic started by: Brooke on May 04, 2009, 12:42:04 AM
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Time to design a Tunisia: Dawn of Battle patch?
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Lets see some :cool:
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I got an idea
Put a tiger tank on one side and a nothing on the other well because we couldn't see them
:D
JK
I do have an idea though
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Gotta have B25s on it.....yeah.....B25s.
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Agreed Beefcake.........Agreed
:D
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I'm picturing a tank coming at you over a sandy ridge with some bombers and fighters behind it.
It looks really good in my head.
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(http://cheeptech.com/misc/blog_pics/incoming/incoming-sandbox.jpg)
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
Okay..... that's Fencer on the right?
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Gotta have B25s on it.....yeah.....B25s.
:rofl
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I've got an idea. I'll try to photoshop something up today and get it posted.
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Here's a good idea of what I wanted to put onto the patch.
I wanted to move away from the round tradition of many patches. I wanted to use a triangle as many ground units and even air units have triangle shapes or themes on their patches.
And before you ask/complain: I wanted something dropping a bomb on the top, so I put the Mitchell in! No other reason than I simply love the design of that plane! Thought it would look good. Wasn't sure if I should leave it all black or have the blue depicting windows.
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia3.jpg)
EDIT: Oh, it'd be grey backing with blue/tan filled in with stitching.
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Very nice!
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That is a damn creative design! Very nice. Unfortunately, for myself, it depicts the main failure of the scenario. Buffs bombing the crap out of the tanks preventing any kind of sustained combat action for them. Every time I'd see that patch it will probably remind me of that.
However, it is one very sharp design. In and of itself, I like it. :aok
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As a pilot that flew Ju88s 2 frames and escorted them 2 other frames, my main goal and intent was to represent the many strats that were bombed and/or the ships that were the main targets for most of the frames.
The bomb is falling into the explosion, not onto the tanks. The tanks are on either side and both contributing to the fire.
The idea being the explosion represents the conflict, and the bombs and tanks are adding flames to the fire.
If I wanted to show a bomber hitting tanks I'd have just put 1 tank in the middle and the bomb right over it.
I did read comments from the tankers upset at being bombed, so I understand your pain. Us bombers had our own type of pain, and the escorts still more pain. I don't think any design will please everybody, since this was quite a complicated event. SOMETHING's gonna stir up discontent, no matter what it is.
Sorry for stirring up bad memories :aok
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I like it.
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When I first saw that patch, I thought, now that is very nicely done. Now the more I look at it, the more I like it.
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Krusty well done!
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I did something right for once??
:( I'm scared!
(P.S. thanks!)
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Brooke asked if I could come up with a patch design.
(http://www.51hangar.net/fencer/DoBPatch.jpg)
Rays of the Sun are Allied colors on left, German colors on right symbolizing the air guys.
1st Armored and Desert Rats patches flank the AfrikaKorps symbol (minus Swastika) below on the desert sand for the ground guys.
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Just to be clear -- don't want any hard feelings -- I asked Fencer about a patch design at the time I opened this topic and when there weren't yet any patch designs. I didn't wait until Krusty made his patch and then ask.
The two candidates look good -- I like them both.
A couple of suggestions for each, and then we should start voting on which to pick.
The final patch will be 3 inches from fathest point to farthest point (for non-round) and diameter (for round). If you adjust the size on your screen to match that, there might be some features you decide are too small and need to be increased or changed.
For Krusty's patch, I recommend making the main traingle reduced in height and making the secondary triangle and the tanks in it a bit bigger.
For Fencer's, some of the features will need to be bigger, or they won't come out well in thread. Can the palm tree and the iron cross be a lot bigger? And I'm not sure what kind of detail we'll get on the smaller unit patches unless they are a lot bigger.
Here are the patch designs and what they ended up looking like in thread so that folks can judge what level of detail is achievable.
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patchDesigns.html
Especially note Stalin's Fourth and Operation Husky. The small airplanes in Operation Husky were especially difficult to get done -- I had to go back and forth with the patch company many, many times over that, and it took over a month of back and forth to get it where it was. I don't think we should try to achieve details as small scale as that in the future patches -- it's sort of beyond what they can pull off well.
Many thanks, guys. I very much appreciate folks submitting patch designs. I can get them made, but I am not especially talented in designing them.
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I love Fencers patch.
It has representation for everyone and looks great.
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No worries Brooke, it's all open forum until folks cast their votes. I figured there'd be more than 1 design.
Fencer: I do think it's a very interesting design, but I think too much of a beach ball when I look at it.
Any chance you could make it square? Something other than "circle" in shape? Something to break me of that beach ball feeling? My only real concern (other than beach ball) being the details on the "old ironsides" and the palm tree being lost because they're too small to recreate with stitching. If you have to increase the badge sizes and the palm tree so they extend above the horizon I think that would still work.
At the moment I'm still liking my own design, but don't take it personally, I'm biased :salute
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The symbols on the lower half could be enlarged a bit.
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(http://www.51hangar.net/fencer/DoBPatch2.gif)
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Both great designs. Might be an idea to have two seperate patches one for the Afrika Corps.
One for the Allies.
(Just thinking out loud)
OK...I'll shut up. :lol
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(http://www.51hangar.net/fencer/DoBPatchSq.jpg)
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I like the traditional Round shape, along with the new positions and enlarged symbols for the tankers.
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Of the two Fencer designs, I think I kinda like the square better, but it's close. Your call Fencer. Thought it would have more effect on me than it really did. Thanks for the effort tho.
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Fencer, I like the "beach ball looking one"! Good use of colors IMO, it really grasps the eye.
Sorry Krusty, good idea on representing both air and land units but the colors you used are too pale in my opinion, doesn't stand out. You should use a black border on your "Dawn of Battle Tunisia" writing...and get rid of all that white
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I like the triangle shape, but I agree with Buster that the colors are too pale.
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My intent wasn't to have a border. Like Stalin's Fourth, have a crisp edte and then stitching inside that. You mean the white outline? That as black?
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Well it doesn't necessarily need to be black...just some type of outline to make the words stand out better. White on gray is tough to see
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Well, keep in mind that white stitching on a grey material will show up a lot more than simple pixels on a computer screen.
However, here are a couple of different shades that might make the colors "pop" a bit more.
tunisia3a
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia3a.jpg)
tunisia3b
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia3b.jpg)
tunisia3c
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia3c.jpg)
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That middle one is looking good
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I like the middle one... One nitpick, though... the sand is too pale. Maybe a little darker to contrast with the gray border?
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I like the middle one... One nitpick, though... the sand is too pale. Maybe a little darker to contrast with the gray border?
That's my one nitpick with Krusty's design too. The pale sky color with the pale desert color is not very apealing to my eyes. The bolder text though in the 3B patch is a very nice improvement.
I really like the originality with Krusty's patch and the triangle design. But for content I think I'm favoring Fencer's. This might be a tough decision when it gets down to voting time.
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The sand is my fault lol. I eyeballed it based on some desert skins I did for Luftwaffe planes. Offer me a RGB alternative and I'll give it a try!
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I'll leave what RGB you want to stick with up to you, but there were some color photos posted by BMathis earlier in the propaganda thread that might be good sources of inspiration.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,260170.msg3230708.html#msg3230708
(http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=439974c6bdd30e5f_landing)
(http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=1f0b22e6cb32f4e5_landing)
(http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=ad1d90ba3d73087f_landing)
(http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=334d483008c6f776_landing)
Edit: In looking at the photos and your patch, maybe it's actualy the pale sky color, the desert/sand color isn't off by much IMO.
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The problem with WW2 color photos is they bleed, color shift, leech out, and degrade over the years. This is especially the case in that last tank photo. However, sampling from the second pic (the P-40E) I got a shade of blue from the sky.
tunisia3d:
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia3d.jpg)
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I like it.
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Looking better. In the middle of the bomb explosion try red instead of orange just to see what it looks like and put the orange in place of the yellow
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The problem with WW2 color photos is they bleed, color shift, leech out, and degrade over the years. This is especially the case in that last tank photo. However, sampling from the second pic (the P-40E) I got a shade of blue from the sky.
tunisia3d:
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia3d.jpg)
I like it if you do Krusty, but I think it's definetley more gentle on the eyes now. Thanks :aok
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(http://www.51hangar.net/fencer/DoBShield.gif)
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Ok, now for just pure impact, That looks good Fencer.
The Kangaroo(?) could be a little smaller.
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Guys, keep in mind these patches will be 3" maximum dimension, and thread is not all that high in resolution.
If I take the above two candidates, save them as 100 pixels wide or tall, then resize them so that they are about 3" max. dimension on a 1024x768 display (just a very rough estimate of what sorts of things happen in going to the lower-res medium of thread), they appear as:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/temp2.png)
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/temp1.jpg)
So, I think some of the smaller lettering will not be as legible as you'd like. The lettering also likely won't be able to have outlines in a different color. Very small lettering (the "Old Ironsides" for example), won't be able to be rendered at that size.
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As always, I was guesstimating on the size of the text. Would you say it needs to be 2x as large on my particular example? 50% larger?
I ask because it affects the geometry of the sky as well as the size/placement of the B-25 in relation to the text. I think I need to tweek some things.
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It's hard to tell, because the way thread affects resolution isn't exactly reproducible by just reducing the resolution.
However, what I'd do is this. Make your artwork. Change the resolution to be 100 pixels high or wide (whichever is bigger) and save it that way. Then take the saved file and resize it however you like so that it's 3" corner to corner and see what it looks like by eye. If there is text that is starting to get unreadable or objects that start to look like blobs instead of showing the detail you want, then I'd suggest making them bigger.
Also, you can look at the past patch scans to judge how text of different sizes looks. I wouldn't go smaller than the smallest text we've used so far -- that's probably about the limit.
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I am not concerned with "Old Ironsides" being readable. It is a recognizable shape and patch. As long as those are there it represents what it is meant too.
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Fencer...love the actual badge look. I agree the kangaroo should be a bit smaller though
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Fencer...love the actual badge look. I agree the kangaroo should be a bit smaller though
Can't make things much smaller, guys, or the thread will not be able to handle fine details (like ears, paws, etc.).
Please see this page and especially the Operation Husky patch. That patch looks OK, but it took me many, many iterations with the patch company to get it worked out -- the little planes are too little. We can't do things that small and get the shape of outlines to look right.
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patchDesigns.html
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It is NOT a Kangaroo, it is a DESERT RAT.. 8th Army.. The Desert Rats! ROC.. I blame you! (points) :rofl
Updated
(http://www.51hangar.net/fencer/DoBShield.gif)
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I lean to Krusty's design. The unique shape and idea is striking. Many patches from the military are shapes other than round. Of course some are not.
Here are some real ones that I have personally worn. (for shape illustrations only)
(http://www.kkenshome.com/USAF/images/381smw.gif) and (http://www.kkenshome.com/USAF/images/sacom.gif) A roundish is: (http://www.kkenshome.com/USAF/images/532sms.gif)
Just my opinion. Both are worthy but, again, I lean to Krusty's design.
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Fencer somehow I knew that would push your buttons :rofl :rofl
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I'm working in higher resolution, but down-sizing when I upload pics so that you get a better overall idea of it (and can see how it looks more patch-sized).
I did in fact have to make the text larger, taking the suggestion of downsizing then upscaling. I also had to rearrange the text slightly to better lay it out on the border. I think it still flows well. I chose a different font mostly for spacing/placement issues.
tunisia4a
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia4a.jpg)
tunisia4b (flames changed per request)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia4b.jpg)
EDIT: I suppose I could put "Dawn of Battle" on top, but "An Aces High TM Scenario" wouldn't fit very well. I know the stitchers can fit a lot more than the font choices I have available to me will allow, so I'm not too worried. It's an aesthetic option.
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I had held off commenting on Krusty's design because I put forth my own. He has had no problem commenting on mine, which is just fine.
I am uncomfortable "critiquing", but I do have an opinion and that is all it is my opinion. The patch to me represents the worst thing about the event, bombers carpet bombing vehicles. That's all I see when I look at it. I see nothing representing the event itself, the fighers, the LW bombers, just the worst part for the GV guys. <shrug>
I was asked to come up with one, and I hope others are working on their own and will post them soon.
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Looks nice with the darker flames.
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I respect your feedback Fencer :aok
No patch design can (or should IMO) have every single aspect of every player's experience in it. There's only so much room and way too much to cram into it. Like your design, for example. You took the elements you felt would convey the feelings or memories associated with the real events. I've done the same steps, but with different results.
No offense taken if it's not your cup o' tea!
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I'll admit that I have had differing ideas with Krusty in the past, but his design, IMHO, and his points are worthy. I especially like the "B" model.
What "if" we did a compromise, and just a suggestion, really small fighters facing HO at a banked angle below each of the bomber's wings (thus) \ / and then put a little spritz at the end of each tank barrel to denote it firing or maybe a short thin line with a dot at the end resembling a round. There seems to be a pointy thing even at the barrels denoting a shock wave. (may not carry thru to the patch though)
I think tunisia4b is awesome in color and design. The text, I'll let someone else consider as I am mixed on what line goes where! :confused:
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It is NOT a Kangaroo, it is a DESERT RAT.. 8th Army.. The Desert Rats! ROC.. I blame you! (points) :rofl
Updated
(http://www.51hangar.net/fencer/DoBShield.gif)
Glad someone called them out on it, we're rats, and proud of it!
I love the interstate shape btw.
So does anyone else have any patch idea submissions, or are we settling down for a Fencer vs. Krusty patchoff?
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Glad someone called them out on it, we're rats, and proud of it!
I love the interstate shape btw.
So does anyone else have any patch idea submissions, or are we settling down for a Fencer vs. Krusty patchoff?
Afrika Korps are not "desert rats". The British 8th Army is represented by the "desert rat".
Although as you know, Rommel was known as "the desert fox". slight difference in appearance from a desert rat, but both images can appear to look like a Kangaroo from afar. :)
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It was more of a general statement, but I can live with only calling all the allied tank drivers rats :devil . We're all rats here... except for the Aussies, maybe they're roos... and of cource there's our resident frog.
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Due to limited patch area, I say we make it a Desert Kangaroo Foxrat, and call it good. (Just kidding, of course.)
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LMAO! :rofl
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:lol
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Hmmmmmmmmmm............looks Marsupial to me <shrugs> :O
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Although I like them both, I'm tending to lean toward Krusty's patch simply because I flew B25's in this event. :D
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I've decided I liked the text the way it was before, but the new orange color is better.
However, my limited text manipulation capabilities don't really let me get what I want onto the patch. I'll just leave the border blank, and the text can be put on via any stitching text/font programs the patch makers use. I've seen their previous works and know they can get pretty narrow fonts while retaining legibility.
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia4c.jpg)
K-Ken, can't do small fighters like you suggest. Even with the larger ones from OpHusky, it was a real PITA to get the shapes to look like planes and not blobs. Small details don't work so well that way. I know, it's odd... They can do a perfect outline of Japan for Downfall, but they choke on the planes in Husky. Go figure!
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Just a reminder for Fencer's patches - doesn't he need the little "TM" after Aces High to keep it legal?
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Patch status update?
We need cash to get these going?
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Check the patches link in my sig. Lists a current balance (whenever Brooke updates it, that is), give you an idea of where we are on that front.
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Yea, Krusty, I know about that site.
My question was ment to be Tunisia DoB patch specific.
This seemed to be the thread in which the discussion and design proposals were being posted, so I thought I would ask what the status was, and if the hold up was a lack of funds in the kitty. The reason I asked was because the thread sort of died.
Thanks for your response, even though it did nothing whats so ever to answer my question.
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Sorry if I offended. I thought I was answering your question, as the first line on the page is:
"Patch account balance as of October 20, 2008: US$75.28 (Previous patch was Battle of Britain 2008. Next patch is Tunisia: Dawn of Battle.)"
A bit out of date, but it might imply that funds are the reason. Normally a patch run can't/won't start until the funds are in place.
That's my take on it.
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Sorry for the delay, guys. I got caught up in getting Coral Sea up and going. I will get back on this and get it going this weekend.
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Thank you, Brooke. I know your time is valuable too.
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Folks, time to vote on which patch you'd like, the Krusty design or the Fencer design.
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This is a tough one, as I like them both, but Krusty's last mod with the color change looks just a wee bit more better to my eye.
Like he said, the patch company should have input on the lettering, as they know more about what they can and can not do to make it fit and look right.
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Krusty's patch here.
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Just for clarity, we are voting which folks prefer:
Krusty's design
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia4c.jpg)
or Fencer's design
(http://www.51hangar.net/fencer/DoBPatch2.gif)
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I prefer the round one myself. ;)
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I prefer the round one myself. ;)
Switched to round one in the previous message.
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Round One
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Fencer.
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Krusty's is going to have some text around the edges right?
If so I vote for Krusty's.
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Krusty's is going to have some text around the edges right?
Yes. He left out the text on that graphic, but it will have the usual text. Here's an earlier example with text:
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia4b.jpg)
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The one with the desert rat.
The round one.
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I like the text in this position best:
http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia3d.jpg
But apply that to the latest patch.
I like the triangle pattern, voting for mine :aok
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I like the text in this position best:
http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/tunisia3d.jpg
But apply that to the latest patch.
I like the triangle pattern, voting for mine :aok
Agreed on the latest patch and the text is OK there too. I have already posted my choice above.
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Round.
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Krusty's
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I vote Fencer
SKWing19
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The round one, I think is better as a patch, but Fencer's is very clever. I think it's partly the color scheme that loses me.
The round one.
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Fencer's
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I vote for Krusty's patch.
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This was a tough one to decide.
Fencer
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Fencer's round one
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So, the final tally is the round patch.
I will begin the process of patch production with that one.
Thank you both Fencer and Krusty on submitting candidates.
Now for the Coral Sea 2009 one . . . :)
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I have submitted the artwork to the patch-production company.
There will probably be tweaks on the artwork as the "old ironsides" text will probably be too small to show up, as will some of the things in the triangle.
I'll post a picture of the sewout once I get one.
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The sewout is as follows. The "old ironsides" lettering was too small to fit, and dark outlines around the text were not possible. Other than that, does it look OK to folks? It looks good to me -- in fact, I think it looks better than how I thought some of it would turn out due to some smaller sizes of some of the features.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/tunisiaSewout300.jpg)
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Looks fine Brooke. Will look very nice with my other AH Scenario patches.
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Image link is broken?
EDIT: After 4 tries it showed up.. go figure.
I really like how the stitches themselves give the "desert sand" a texture. That's a nice touch.
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Looks Great!! I'll get me PayPal fired up :)
HARR!!!
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That is a good looking patch. Well done. :aok
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What's with red kangaroo?? :huh
<ducks and runs>
:noid
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What's with red kangaroo?? :huh
<ducks and runs>
:noid
Fencer answered that one. His answer is above somewhere, but I think (if I recall correctly) that he said it was a wallaby, not a kangaroo. :D
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What's with red kangaroo?? :huh
<ducks and runs>
:noid
45 minutes.. thats how far you are away.. fortyfive minutes.. ;)
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Hello, pilots of "Tunisia: Dawn of Battle". The scenario patches are in, and they look gorgeous.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200903_tunisia/tunisia_patchScan300.jpg)
If you would like one, please go to this web page and fill out a request. Also, feel free to request patches from other scenarios.
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patches.html
Patch production is funded by optional donations. Please request patches whether or not you donate -- we want you to have a patch if you played in the scenario. As this run depleted the patch-production fund, if any of you would like to donate, instructions for that are on the page.
The next scenario is "Red Storm - Krupp Steel", a late-war Germany vs. Soviet Union battle, which starts October 24th.
(http://ahevents.org/images/stories/scenarios_images/200910_redStormKruppSteel/redStormBanner.png)
More information is here: http://ahevents.org/pacific-theatre/current-or-next-scenario.html
Registration is open, and there are plenty of fighters, bombers, attack planes, and tanks still available -- so please come register. All of you are up for some late-war Eastern Front action, right? :)
Best regards,
-- Brooke
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A Salute to Brooke for his dedication to this Community.
I am amazed at the dedication and time he spends CMing, coordinating, doing the events site stuff, doing events and the patches as well!!
Heres to you Brooke.... :salute
(http://www.vspa.com/images/af-medal-af-commendation-medal.jpg)
<was in the USAF so I picked theirs> :)
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Heh! Many thanks. :) It is a team effort, and I accept on behalf of Roscoroo, Newman, and Fencer. :aok
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Heh! Many thanks. :) It is a team effort, and I accept on behalf of Roscoroo, Newman, and Fencer. :aok
Not to mention the people in your real life from whom you take time to do all this for us. :salute
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And Terrain folks (Dux, Easyscor, mrmidi, Blauk, Kanttori, 68Falcon, ghostdancer -- apologies if I left anyone off, was going mostly by the list on ahevent.org). I did a tiny terrain once, just for torpedo-bombing practice. It is an amazing amount of work to put together a real terrain, like Rhine, Coral Sea, Tunisia, BoB, etc. :salute
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That looks great :) I wasnt in that one so I wont be getting it but nice work :aok
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Brooke it seems I'm not as smart as the next guy because I can't find where to donate to the bank.
Little help?
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That looks great :) I wasnt in that one so I wont be getting it but nice work :aok
You can still request one if you'd like -- no problem.
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Brooke it seems I'm not as smart as the next guy because I can't find where to donate to the bank.
Little help?
Donation is optional, and if you do want to donate, please use Paypal.com to donate to the account for "brookep2@electraforge.com".
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cant wait! my avatar is already ready so am i lol! :rock :joystick:
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Patch arrived today and it looks great! Thanks to all who lent a hand in getting it done.
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Received my patch today (from yesterday's mail) ...Thank You Brooke.
(The one with the kangaroo on it) :bolt:
:rofl
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Kangaroo package arrived. :D Thanks Brooke. They are indeed great looking!! <S> All involved. Nice design by Fencer. The threads and stitching is really quite impressive.
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cant wait! my avatar is already ready so am i lol! :rock :joystick:
feel like an idiot from last post but im gonna get a coral sea patch when they come out awesome work :salute