Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vulcan on September 19, 2001, 04:24:00 AM
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What a cunning plan. Execute a major strike in the face of the US. The sort of punch that demands retaliation. Make sure you're in a country where you are almost worshipped as a leader and have massive ability to flex your financial influence. Then leave a whole bunch of clues that point to you, but publicly deny any knowledge, plus throw in a clue or two that point to Iraq, an old enemy of the US.
Draw the US into a conflict in Afghanistan. Destabilize Pakistan because of their allowing the US to operate in their airspace. Create the momentum for a religious Jihad in Pakistan, overthrow the goverment.
Pull Iran in the Jihad once you overthrow Pakistan (Pakistani arsenal has nukes). Try and provoke the US/Allies into trying help the goverment in Pakistan.
Do some stirring to provoke Israel into major conflict with Palestine and/or Iraq (hasn't happened yet but watch this space).
Beam pictures of the US/Allies bombing Afghanistan, Iraq, and maybe even 'rebel forces' in Pakistan into every Islamic TV in the middle east.
Watch the world unravel...
Or am I just paranoid?
(p.s. I'm not being anti-US, I still wanna nuke the bastard!)
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I would not say paranoid.
Afghanistan has supposedly said that it will retaliate on any country that help the US. Pakistan appears to be helping the US. Pakistan is one of the few countries to recognize the Taliban.
If it all pans out that Pakistan helps the US enough that Afghanistan attacks Pakistan, I wonder how itchy the trigger fingers of those in Pakistan are? Is that an unreasonable fear?
[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Fury ]
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its gonna be very different from anything the US has ever waged. The goals will be to destroy the infrastructure of several terrorist organizations, and leaders. how you do this? this is the difficult part. Our forces that are trained to handle this type of combat are relatively small, and well trained. It will not be WW3, unlees future developements create such a conflict. If sovreign countries get in on it against and with the US in this it could escalate.
If it stays as what the US command authority invisions, it will be special ops, lots of elite intel, and many PGM's.
This of course is my opinion and only based on what little I have seen and kinow from my military experience.
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Do you actually know what a Jihad is, Vulcan? As in the real meaning and the interpretation put upon on it by 90% of all Muslims in the world?
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Well I thought I did but I spose you're gonna tell me anyways ;)
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No, I'm just interested, mate. ;) I see alot said about Jihads, and just wonder how much people know about it. The media seems to paint in a certain dramatic light (as is their want) and it adds to the misconception that Islam is a barbaric, aggressive religion.
But when you get down to it, it isn't. :) They just have a highly motivated bunch of zealots - but they don't have monopoly on that kind of follower, by any means.
Anyway, 'Jihad' is seen by most Muslims to represent the inner struggle against sin. It can also represent defending the faith or territory - but this is governed by a set of rules. The killing of civilians is not allowed.
But crucially, a Muslim's fight against his own anger is seen as the greatest form of Jihad.
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Bin Ladin interprets the Koran to justify the civilian deaths and believes that if the civilian woman and children are good..they will go to heaven.
He sees himself leading a "jihad" against western organization and wants to restore a true islamic state "in his eyes".
He's evil as satan himself, dont give him any credentials.
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Originally posted by Vulcan:
Create the momentum for a religious Jihad in Pakistan, overthrow the goverment.
Or am I just paranoid?
I fear this is a very big possibility after watching the President of Pakistan, who took office after a military overthrow < 2 years ago, declaring his support for the US while split screen showed the Pakistan population tearing the American flag to shreads...
If you are paraniod so am I.
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Dowding don't get me wrong about Muslims. I respect them more than I respect the Christians - the Muslims are quite straight up about what they do, whereas recent Christian 'ethnic cleansing' has tried to have been covered up.
The big difference is that the Muslims can be so amazingly motivated (its takes big nads to strap a couple of kilos of C4 to you) by their beliefs.
What I believe I'm seeing evolve before me is something a lot of people might not understand. At a certain point this conflict might reach a critical mass in many different Islamic countries.
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Read this, "Black Tuesday, the view from Pakistan (http://www.tompaine.com/opinion/2001/09/19/index.html)".
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Originally posted by Vulcan:
I respect them more than I respect the Christians - the Muslims are quite straight up about what they do, whereas recent Christian 'ethnic cleansing' has tried to have been covered up.
What are you talking about when you say "ethnic cleansing"?
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Originally posted by Dowding:
Do you actually know what a Jihad is, Vulcan? As in the real meaning and the interpretation put upon on it by 90% of all Muslims in the world?
"jee-had", yeah, ain't that some dweeb AH player from Oklahoma?? :D
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Ever heard of Kosovo? Or look at the Irish problem, each side is Christian, just a different sect.
Originally posted by -ammo-:
What are you talking about when you say "ethnic cleansing"?
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That is not true. What happened in Bosnia/Herzogovina was not done by Christians. They were religious zealots. Be careful who you paint with that wide brush of yours.
And dont be absurd, "ever heard of kosovo".
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actually, wasn't the situation in Kosovo the Orthodox Christian Serbs were trying to get rid of the Kosovar Albanians who were mostly Muslim?
a yes, that's what it was:
Erasing History: Ethnic Cleansing in Kosovo (http://www.state.gov/www/regions/eur/rpt_9905_ethnic_ksvo_5.html)
[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: Sancho ]
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Anyone can label those people "Christians" But I assure you they were not. The idea that they were Christ's will when they commited those atrocities is ludicrous. Christian= Christ Like. It was pure hatred of the muslims in that country that spawned that, and not a love for Christ.
So..No they were not Christians.
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Ammo they labelled themselves Christians. Sorry dude but you are stretching it here. Mind you the same applies to any religion, each has its zealots. What you should say is "those people don't represent the majority of Christianity", its the same thing the Islamic world is saying about Bin Laden right now.
To me, religion is an interesting ***device***. I believe that the good Christian (or Muslim) would be good, religion or no religion. And likewise the 'bad' Christian (or Muslim) twists the religion as a device to attain his own personal goals.
So, I don't mock or disrespect your beliefs - but I do find religion ***in general*** a device used by many to meet their own personal agendas.
Originally posted by -ammo-:
Anyone can label those people "Christians" But I assure you they were not. The idea that they were Christ's will when they commited those atrocities is ludicrous. Christian= Christ Like. It was pure hatred of the muslims in that country that spawned that, and not a love for Christ.
So..No they were not Christians.
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Originally posted by Vulcan:
Ammo they labelled themselves Christians. Sorry dude but you are stretching it here. Mind you the same applies to any religion, each has its zealots. What you should say is "those people don't represent the majority of Christianity", its the same thing the Islamic world is saying about Bin Laden right now.
To me, religion is an interesting ***device***. I believe that the good Christian (or Muslim) would be good, religion or no religion. And likewise the 'bad' Christian (or Muslim) twists the religion as a device to attain his own personal goals.
So, I don't mock or disrespect your beliefs - but I do find religion ***in general*** a device used by many to meet their own personal agendas.
Even the Devil lies about who he is, and comes in the guise as "Christian". I dont think I am stretching anything. The bible defines a Christian, and those that are commiting those kind of crimes (label that SIN) are just lieing. Toi those outside the window such as yourself I can see maybe some confusion. I am just stepping up for Christians. We use the Bible as our guideline, and murder is not equated with Christian, unless it is a failing Christian. Dont get me wrong though, King David murdered, and the Nation of Israel is paying for it still to this day (IMO). I am saying that who you call (or whoever) calls them Christians in the Kosovo thing are not Christians.
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Well, all I can say to that is someone better revise that 2 billion figure for Christians in the world. Because there are an awful lot of people who think they are Christians that aren't :) (man the Irish are gonna be pissed they aren't Christians after all... and they realize that fighting was all for nothing).
You see my point ammo?
The funny thing is the Islamic community is saying almost exactly the same thing, "Muslims do not murder, if they do then they're not a Muslim".
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Yep, nobody in the world is a bad guy. Don't believe it? Just ask them, they'll tell you what a good guy they are.
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Originally posted by Vulcan:
Beam pictures of the US/Allies bombing Afghanistan, Iraq, and maybe even 'rebel forces' in Pakistan into every Islamic TV in the middle east.
I'm not sure how many T.V.'s there are in the Muslim world (altogether), but I know it is illegal to own a T.V. in Afghanistan. They are not a free people. In fact, if you were to visit there, you too would be forbidden to watch T.V.
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Originally posted by Vulcan:
Well, all I can say to that is someone better revise that 2 billion figure for Christians in the world. Because there are an awful lot of people who think they are Christians that aren't :) (
You just dont know how how right you are. Yes sir I see your point.
<S>
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So ammo, your point is essentially that the crimes against humanity in the FY were committed by people who were only Christian in their own eyes.
Do you not recognise the exact same thing with this latest crime against humanity? They call themselves Muslims, but most Muslims disagree with them on that.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
So ammo, your point is essentially that the crimes against humanity in the FY were committed by people who were only Christian in their own eyes.
Do you not recognise the exact same thing with this latest crime against humanity? They call themselves Muslims, but most Muslims disagree with them on that.
That is not quite my point. First being that I am a believer in Christ, I dont agree with the Muslims view, therefore I cant equate the two religious views. They have similar doctrines. They believe in the same Old Testement as we do, but do not accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God. However if someone like yourself wanted too, you could categorize "religious people" into the same file.
My point is that there are many folks that call themselves Christians and sincerely believe it... but are not. Only through Jesus Christ is anyone saved. Not by good works, not by going to church, not by just proclaiming Christianity. In Romans 5:8 Paul says . "But God commendeth his love torward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Then in Romans 10:9 "That
if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believein thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." And a reitteration just a few versus later in verse 13.. for whosoever shall call upon the name of the lord shall be saved."
<S> Hope I answered your question
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OK, Ammo, heres a question for you. If Sloberon Mydicksqueak (sorry can't remember how to spell his name) - the serbian dude - had been a perfectly good person, ie Christian, up until the point he started ordering the murders - was he ever a Christian?
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Originally posted by Vulcan:
OK, Ammo, heres a question for you. If Sloberon Mydicksqueak (sorry can't remember how to spell his name) - the serbian dude - had been a perfectly good person, ie Christian, up until the point he started ordering the murders - was he ever a Christian?
dont bait me vulcan.