Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Brooke on August 11, 2008, 10:46:48 PM
-
Hello, all.
I'm interested in hiring a person to do a nice B-24 skin of Witchcraft, one that can be submitted as an acceptable skin to HTC for inclusion in the game. I'll pay $150 for it.
My interest is because I took a ride on the Colling's Foundation B-24 painted as Witchcraft, posted pictures of it, and got e-mail from B-24 pilots who flew Witchcraft:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/b24_2005.html
For those interested, please say so here or send me a PM, and please if possible include links to artwork of other skins you've done.
Many thanks, and here's hoping some folks are interested.
-
Well, I don't want your money. Ive done one B-24 before, but it hasn't been added yet. I've seen the aircraft, but do you have any particularly good references?
-
150$ should go to the best rendering of that scheme..
-
150$ should go to the best rendering of that scheme..
Just curious but why $150 at all? Im sure the skinners would do it just for the fun of it!
-
I figure it's a lot of work to do a skin, and I don't have the knowledge, skill, or the software to do it myself. I could request it for free, but then it might not happen anytime soon (as there are probably lots of requests). I'm willing to pay to get it done well, soon, and up to whatever guidelines needed by HTC to get it into the game -- basically to commission the work.
I'd love to see it introduced into Aces High and then send an e-mail to Fred Holdrege (commander of the squadron Witchcraft was in -- the 790th Bombardment Squadron) and to Bob McKenzie (First Pilot in the 790th and pilot of Witchcraft during one of his 35 combat missions) with a screenshot of Witchraft in action in Aces High. Also, I'd add it onto my Witchcraft page.
-
Yep, we could do it as a $150 prize for the best rendering, but that means some folks go through all the work for naught.
Might just be best to see past examples of work from those interested and pick one person.
-
Profile:
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4629/b24wcprofsqz6.gif)
Nose detail:
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8862/b24wcnosevw3.jpg)
It's good to be a pack rat.
edit: is that the right Witchcraft? I did'nt even check.
wrngway
-
Yep, that's Witchcraft.
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/pics2005/senior790thstaff.jpg)
And in action:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/pics2005/Witchcraft_in_action.jpg)
Note engine-cowl colors might not be symmetrical (i.e., 1 and 2 are perhaps the same as 4 and 3, not 3 and 4). Not sure about that, though -- hard to tell.
Also, the nose has "Audre" painted on it in yellow, which the graphic above doesn't show (but that is partially visible in the black-and-white picture above).
More pics are here:
http://www.467bg.com/witchcraft.html
-
The plane looks it had a couple of paint jobs done on it around the engines during it's service time. http://www.b24bestweb.com/Pics-W-WIT-WIZ.htm
-
Note engine-cowl colors might not be symmetrical (i.e., 1 and 2 are perhaps the same as 4 and 3, not 3 and 4). Not sure about that, though -- hard to tell.
From what I can see, 1 and 3 look the same, a light color (Yellow? White?) and 2 and 4 look the same (Looks like a color darker than the OD. Perhaps grey or black?). I don't have a lot of experience interpreting black and white though, so those guesses are the best i can tell.
-
From what I can see, 1 and 3 look the same, a light color (Yellow? White?) and 2 and 4 look the same (Looks like a color darker than the OD. Perhaps grey or black?). I don't have a lot of experience interpreting black and white though, so those guesses are the best i can tell.
Depends what picture your looking at. On one of mine I posted there all painted & they look OD.
-
Heya Gents,
I really dont have the time to dedicate to a full skin production right now. However, I would love to be a part of making her. I'd be happy to make the noseart (right and left fuselage.) This may free up more time for the overall skinner to dedicate to the finer details. I agree about the money. Not necessary IMO. We just like doing it to do it :)
I can offer the noseart in raster or vectored format at any size the skinner would like. I would be making it from scratch...if its wanted. I could have it ready for the skinner by the 16th if needed. Once the skinner is chosen (or steps forward) just let me know whatcha need (if you need it.) I use Photoshop, Freehand, and Fireworks. I should be able to export to any desired format.
ReDhAwK
(cant even imagine all the PMs ur gettin :cool: )
-
I can sure give it a try if no one else jumps up.
-
In the color strip already posted the 1 & 3 were red and 2 & 4 were white. Red does look black in B&W photos.
-
I can sure give it a try if no one else jumps up.
Excellent! Can you post some links to some pics of skins you've done? Also, do you have any that are currently in the Main Arena that I could look at?
-
Excellent! Can you post some links to some pics of skins you've done? Also, do you have any that are currently in the Main Arena that I could look at?
Well, Ive got two that made it in, REAL early designs though. I'm definately not the best skinner here, in fact, I would hesitate to even say im good, but I would be more than happy to try to make something that meets your standard. Back to my in-game skins though, one is a Bf-109F-2 and one a Bf-109G6. The only B-24 ive done hasn't gone in as I am still tweaking it. Here are some quick snippets of everything ive worked on:
(An early shot of my 109F, I cannot find a later one right now...)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/ahss6-9.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/ahss8-7.jpg)
WIP:
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/ahss1-6.jpg)
WIP:
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/ahss1-5.jpg)
WIP:
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/1.jpg)
WIP:
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/ahss2.jpg)
WIP:
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/ahss10.jpg)
(Note, some of these are not the final cuts. I made the mistake of not lableing anything so Im having a hell of a time figuring out which are the latest ones and which are the VERY early stages...)
-
Serenity you need to make your showcase screenshots clearer. The 2nd, 3d, 5th, and last screens are too unreadable. No details are visible enough. Study other skinners' pimp shots.
-
Serenity you need to make your showcase screenshots clearer. The 2nd, 3d, 5th, and last screens are too unreadable. No details are visible enough. Study other skinners' pimp shots.
Yeah, I didn't grab these specifically for this thread, I just already happened to have those on photobucket. I don't think the skins are up to the quality he is looking for anyway, but if he would like to see more, I would be more than happy to take some fresh ones for him.
-
OK, we've got a taker. Serenity, let's go for it. :aok
I have color pictures of the Colling's Foundation B-24 painted as Witchcraft, here:
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/b24_2005.html
It might not be painted authentically in all detail, but the Colling's Foundation pics are the only ones I know of in color. There are some black-and-white ones in the links referenced in that and ones are already posted above (or links to others above), and a Google image search on "b-24 witchcraft" yields a few others.
$150 on completion to specs that meet HTC's requirements for inclusion in the arenas.
Here we go! :)
-
OK, we've got a taker. Serenity, let's go for it. :aok
I have color pictures of the Colling's Foundation B-24 painted as Witchcraft, here:
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/b24_2005.html
It might not be painted authentically in all detail, but the Colling's Foundation pics are the only ones I know of in color. There are some black-and-white ones in the links referenced in that and ones are already posted above (or links to others above), and a Google image search on "b-24 witchcraft" yields a few others.
$150 on completion to specs that meet HTC's requirements for inclusion in the arenas.
Here we go! :)
Keep the money Brooke. I might be a starving teen, but I couldn't in good conscience take it.
-
Keep the money Brooke. I might be a starving teen, but I couldn't in good conscience take it.
But the money is a mandatory part of the deal. :) You can donate it to charity if you don't want it or split it with anyone who helps you (if someone else contributes some of the artwork or whatever). At any rate, upon successful completion, it will be headed your way.
-
But the money is a mandatory part of the deal. :) You can donate it to charity if you don't want it or split it with anyone who helps you (if someone else contributes some of the artwork or whatever). At any rate, upon successful completion, it will be headed your way.
<----- not giving you my address :P
I don't have my image editing stuffs on this computer, so I cannot get to work until Thursday, but I promise (excluding the time in Rangoon and homework) ill devote all the time available this weekend to getting Witchcraft up and flying.
-
Salute Brooke,
Got permission from Serenity to post these shots of the noseart. He will get the final versions to place on the skin as he needs them. However, I have kept the originals in case you would like a copy of them for anything.
Rather than making a copy of the artists profile, I opted to make the noseart from the original period pic. I am attaching 3 graphics. One of the source picture with the new noseart overlayed on it. The second is the new noseart on an OD background (so you can see the white air streaks.) Finally the crewchiefs side of the aircraft. Again, that one is a trace of another period picture.
It is important to remember that the majority of the detail will be lost once resized by Serenity to fit the skin. That is why I offer the originals if you would like them for any reason. Also, I did not weather any of the noseart as I figured that Serenity would like to do that on his end to match the skin.
Anyway, was a fun project on my end. I look forward to seeing it all put together and to fly her. Hope you like it.
-
second pic.
-
and crewchief side.
Regards,
ReDhAwK
-
Very cool. Looking forward to it, guys!
-
Very cool. Looking forward to it, guys!
Ive just redone my template from scratch. I was just about to start on the painting, but apparently I had a surprise birthday party tonight, sorry :(
I SHOULD be done within the next week. I'm racing to beat the next update for ya!
-
No rush, guys -- I'm not on a tight timeline. It can take a month, and that's OK.
-
No rush, guys -- I'm not on a tight timeline. It can take a month, and that's OK.
I know, but who knows when the next release will be. The sooner I get it in, the sooner it gets ingame. Quality before speed, yes, but time IS of the essence!
-
<----- not giving you my address :P
i will GLADLY take the $150 for Serenity :D
-
i will GLADLY take the $150 for Serenity :D
lol. Ironically, I got exactly $150 for my birthday yesterday!
Witchcraft is coming well, base-coat of paint is laid down, now Im trying to touch it up a bit.
-
lol. Ironically, I got exactly $150 for my birthday yesterday!
Witchcraft is coming well, base-coat of paint is laid down, now Im trying to touch it up a bit.
like i said.....the "Buy Banshee a New Computer Foundation" needs donations :)
-
Maybe donate the $150 back to the upkeep and operation of WITCHCRAFT if you don't want to take the money. :salute
-
He should take the money and divvy it how he sees fit with people who helped on the project. :aok
-
He should take the money and divvy it how he sees fit with people who helped on the project. :aok
or give it to me :)
-
ALMOST there! I should have the preview up by tonight! Sorry for the delay, homework has been hitting hard :(
-
Heya Serenity,
You should have both .png's in your mailbox bud. If they didnt come through (or you need them in another format) just let me know.
ReDhAwK
-
Heya Serenity,
You should have both .png's in your mailbox bud. If they didnt come through (or you need them in another format) just let me know.
ReDhAwK
They didn't come through, but I pulled them off of here where you posted them and they worked brilliantly! Thanks!
-
Heres the first draft. If there arent any major issues, I will go 'public' with her at the end of tomorrow (Ill put a few more hours into her first).
Known issues so far:
1) Witchcraft was either not a J-model, or a different block, because our J model has another window connected to the aft of the bombsight, which means that the nose art, on both sides, has been moved backwards.
2) The skin has a bunch of... mottled, you would say, pixels. That happens whenever I convert to RGB. It seems to only be an issue with the B-24 as I never had that problem with my Bf-109s...
3) The OD 'waves' do not extend far enough down the side of the fuselage. Due to a bug with the skin, if I extend the OD any farther, to more accurately match the original, it becomes mirrored odly on the bottom of the fuselage.
4) the 'Q2' is missing on the right side of the fuselage. Its there, I just forgot to make it visible again before taking these shots.
5) Shes not quite dirty enough on the underside. I will be mucking her up a bit more before submitting.
6) I havn't added the Audre to the nose yet.
7) The engine oil needs to be cleaned up. That was just a quick patch-job
8.) There are some black lines all over. Those are on an extra layer I need to delete.
Other than that, I present to you, with the GREAT help of Lord Redhawk, Withcraft!
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Batch1-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Batch1-2.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Batch1-3.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Batch1-4.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Batch1-5.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Batch1-6.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Batch1-7.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Batch1-8.jpg)
-
It was a H model.
-
I honestly don't mean to bash you or anything, but I think Greebo could do it 10x better. Something just doesn't look right with it, but I don't know what.
-
I honestly don't mean to bash you or anything, but I think Greebo could do it 10x better. Something just doesn't look right with it, but I don't know what.
Oh I agree he could have done better, I'm still new to skinning. I agree, something doesn't look quite right to me either, but this is just the first 'draft' of it. Im not nearly done tooling with it. And, really, even Greebo started somewhere :aok
-
Doh! Just realized I forgot to touch the cowlings.
Oh, Eskimo, I figured out what doesn't look right. Shes not the same shade of OD as the modern/restored Witchcraft. This bird is lighter. Now, part of that is some of the weathering (I need to tone a few layers down a bit more) but it's also probably the palate I had stored on this particular comp. Long story short, one of the things I need to do is darken her.
-
Double-doh! I gotta stop multi tasking... I completely ignored the engines here! Alright, screw tomorrow, Im gonna touch her up tonight. Expect an update sometime around 0300-0400 HI time.
-
Heya Serenity,
You may want to change your time of day in your arena setup section to give better screenies of the work. A lot of the detail is missing due to excess shadow. I would suggest taking your screenies with the sun shining on that particular section you are wanting to highlight to the forum.
Give us a shot of a closeup on the wing and fuselage so we can see the riveting and panel line detail. A closeup on the nose section. Closeup on the tail section where the red section is. Generally any shot that shows identifiers as this aircraft being Witchcraft for Brooke to look at.
We know this is just a preliminary look at the skin. These are just suggestions for shots once the fine tuning and critiquing begins. You mentioned something about losing some detailing once you converted it to indexed color. There are programs that we use that will absolutely minimize that in your conversion. If you do not have a program like Bright (or others) and are just converting from your rastering program, then let us know. I would be happy to help with anything like that (and I know others would as well.)
If something just doesnt look right. Then it isnt right :D The Nowotny 262 was 200 hours of "somethings not right." Now, I have to go through that whole process again with the updated 262 coming out :(
Anyways, hope you arent looking at this as an attack. Im sure any in this forum would be more than happy to offer suggestions or help with issues. Just let us know.
ReDhAwK
-
Heya Serenity,
You may want to change your time of day in your arena setup section to give better screenies of the work. A lot of the detail is missing due to excess shadow. I would suggest taking your screenies with the sun shining on that particular section you are wanting to highlight to the forum.
Give us a shot of a closeup on the wing and fuselage so we can see the riveting and panel line detail. A closeup on the nose section. Closeup on the tail section where the red section is. Generally any shot that shows identifiers as this aircraft being Witchcraft for Brooke to look at.
We know this is just a preliminary look at the skin. These are just suggestions for shots once the fine tuning and critiquing begins. You mentioned something about losing some detailing once you converted it to indexed color. There are programs that we use that will absolutely minimize that in your conversion. If you do not have a program like Bright (or others) and are just converting from your rastering program, then let us know. I would be happy to help with anything like that (and I know others would as well.)
If something just doesnt look right. Then it isnt right :D The Nowotny 262 was 200 hours of "somethings not right." Now, I have to go through that whole process again with the updated 262 coming out :(
Anyways, hope you arent looking at this as an attack. Im sure any in this forum would be more than happy to offer suggestions or help with issues. Just let us know.
ReDhAwK
Yeah, Im just converting it with GIMP and that is really KILLING the detail on this. I would love any help. Its strange, because as I mentioned before, I didn't have this issue at all with my Bf-109s...
-
Alright, I cannot really see too straight anymore, so Im going to call it a night here. Here is what I've got on her as of this last update:
(Note: All oil-stain weathering has been removed. It was just a temporary thing anyway, a place holder, but it was too detrimental to the skin IMHO)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss2.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss3.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss4.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss5.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss6.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss7.jpg)
And therein squats the toad:
Due to the stretching over the nose Audre comes out like this:
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss8.jpg)
I really don't know what to do about this. I've tested it and even single pixels get stretched and bent right there. So... any suggestions as to how to proceed? Just put a big yellow splotch? Leave it out all together? Or, (And I REALLY don't like this one) abandon the skin?
-
Hell No! Dont abandon the skin! :O
Much better on the skin screenies IMO. Still a little to be desired on the forward fuselage noseart side (still shadowed.) But hey! Can see the reds now :)
OK, this is whatcha need to do with the index conversion bud:
o Go to Simmerspaintshop and download a program called Bright. This is a bitmap conversion utility that will generate a 1mb indexed bitmap from your work.
o All you have to do is Save As .Bmp and save it in the Bright folder. Double click the batch file inside that folder and it will generate the indexed bitmap. You should lose little to none of the detail during the conversion process.
o Remember to NOT overwrite your original Gimp file with the layering (we all have done it.) Just save that gimp file as a new bitmap :D
Insofar as Audre and stretching. It unfortunately cannot be placed with that type of stretch. I would suggest ommitting it rather than placing a yellow splotch. I hate that it has to be that way, as its a very important piece IMO to the identity of Whitchcraft, but what must be must be :(
If you run into any problem converting this thing bud, just zip up the original bitmap you make and e-mail it to me. I will convert it and send it back to you. Im playing Golf this late afternoon but can have it back to you around 8:30 or 9pm Eastern time.
I look forward to see the overall weathering you do on her.
edit...I just noticed that there is also a mirroring problem on the stenciling on the inside portion of the rear stabilizer. I'd suggest losing it. How much dang mirroring is on this thing!...edit
ReDhAwK
-
Hell No! Dont abandon the skin! :O
Much better on the skin screenies IMO. Still a little to be desired on the forward fuselage noseart side (still shadowed.) But hey! Can see the reds now :)
OK, this is whatcha need to do with the index conversion bud:
o Go to Simmerspaintshop and download a program called Bright. This is a bitmap conversion utility that will generate a 1mb indexed bitmap from your work.
o All you have to do is Save As .Bmp and save it in the Bright folder. Double click the batch file inside that folder and it will generate the indexed bitmap. You should lose little to none of the detail during the conversion process.
o Remember to NOT overwrite your original Gimp file with the layering (we all have done it.) Just save that gimp file as a new bitmap :D
Insofar as Audre and stretching. It unfortunately cannot be placed with that type of stretch. I would suggest ommitting it rather than placing a yellow splotch. I hate that it has to be that way, as its a very important piece IMO to the identity of Whitchcraft, but what must be must be :(
If you run into any problem converting this thing bud, just zip up the original bitmap you make and e-mail it to me. I will convert it and send it back to you. Im playing Golf this late afternoon but can have it back to you around 8:30 or 9pm Eastern time.
I look forward to see the overall weathering you do on her.
edit...I just noticed that there is also a mirroring problem on the stenciling on the inside portion of the rear stabilizer. I'd suggest losing it. How much dang mirroring is on this thing!...edit
ReDhAwK
Thanks! That means today goes on to weathering... where ive got the least skill :(
But really, thank you so much for that bright thing. Ive downloaded it before, but the instructions looked like another language and I couldn't use it. This makes it so much clearer!
-
Alright, Simmerspaintshop didn't have bright, only brighter. So I got brighter. They seem to be the same. I ran it just as you told me, and... it did SOMETHING I think, but it was still RGB, not indexed. So I took the post-brighter image back into GIMP, saw it was still RGB, and converted to indexed from there, and it made it about 10 times WORSE than before! I might need to pass it to you to convert...
-
Looks like things are progressing along nicely.
Looking through the various information on coloration of the cowlings, I decided to send an e-mail to Fred Holdrege (CO of the squadron Witchraft was in) and Bob McKenzie (lead pilot of the squadron, who flew Witchcraft once), asking them this:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/questionsWitchcraft.html
-
Serenity, thanks for the progress so far.
A couple of comments to chip in while things are under development:
Could the leading edges be more black and less worn? I like wear and tear, but the leading edges have more than anywhere else on the plane by a lot, so it probably is best to pull it back some. (This is just judging from some of the black-and-white pics, like the following, where the leading edge looks more like the shade of the props.)
The gray "wave" shape should probably be a lower and start with the first peak of the wave a little sooner (ignore the question on the pic -- that is for the guys I sent the e-mail to):
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftSkin/WITCHCRAFT2-q.png)
There is a "circle P" on the right top wingtip:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftSkin/b-24-witchcraft-color.gif)
I think the bomb-bay doors might have white stripes, like this, but I'm checking on it:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftSkin/underbelly.jpg)
Many thanks, and I'll let you know if I get any responses from my e-mail.
-
Could the leading edges be more black and less worn? I like wear and tear, but the leading edges have more than anywhere else on the plane by a lot, so it probably is best to pull it back some. (This is just judging from some of the black-and-white pics, like the following, where the leading edge looks more like the shade of the props.)
The gray "wave" shape should probably be a lower and start with the first peak of the wave a little sooner (ignore the question on the pic -- that is for the guys I sent the e-mail to):
The leading edges are an AH default. I havn't touched them yet, thanks for letting me know!
Im not real sure what you mean by the "wave" thing. I THINK your talking about the OD/Grey border. I cannot move it any lower without an akward mirroring on the bottom of the aircraft (By the doors) and what do you mean by peaking earlier?
-
WOW! Just read through your DGS recounts Brooke, nice put together! If I knew where I put my DGS film I would do that from my view as a 38 escort. One of the best times I've ever had in this game. Live for the history in it.
-
Those black leading edges are deicing boots, they would not "chip".
Brooke there was an article in Flypast a while ago on this plane, do you have it?
Also you are looking at photos from several different time periods. Pick one specific time/photo and use it for the markings.
-
Those black leading edges are deicing boots, they would not "chip".
Yeah, not sure why the original AH bird had them...
Brooke, can you get me a better image of that circle P?
-
You ever try Google? :lol
http://www.silverstatenews.com/Collings_B24_2006_Tour.jpg
http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/decals/mg/images/mg48046p1.jpg
http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/decals/mg/decal_mg48046.shtml
-
The leading edges are an AH default. I havn't touched them yet, thanks for letting me know!
Im not real sure what you mean by the "wave" thing. I THINK your talking about the OD/Grey border. I cannot move it any lower without an akward mirroring on the bottom of the aircraft (By the doors) and what do you mean by peaking earlier?
CC, on the leading edges.
Yep, the "wave" is the border between bottom gray and top green. CC on the mirroring issue. I was just meaning that, based on this:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/witch/witchWaves.jpg)
maybe something like this (please forgive my poor ability to put a wave on it -- I don't mean exactly like this, of course):
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/witch/ahss3-2.jpg)
But of course not if it causes mirroring problems.
-
Also, there seems a darker patch in front of the pilot's windshield. I've seen that on B-24's, but I don't know if Witchcraft had that -- very hard to tell from B&W pics.
-
For the "circle p", I'd just do one like on this (as I can't find a good real pic of it):
(http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/decals/mg/images/mg48046p1.jpg)
-
You ever try Google? :lol
http://www.silverstatenews.com/Collings_B24_2006_Tour.jpg
http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/decals/mg/images/mg48046p1.jpg
http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/decals/mg/decal_mg48046.shtml
Yeah, but MY google didn't find that :(
As far as the wave, I get what you mean now. I wasn't sure whether to move it back and start where the glass ended (like on the original), or to have it start as far on the nose as it was in the original. If you think the second option is better, I will go with that.
As far as that dark patch... it won't go away. Its not on the skin itself. AFAIK its similar to the anti-glare issue on P-38s. Unless someone else knows how to get rid of it, I havn't found a way.
-
It seems to be coming on well Serenity, there's a couple of things you might want to look at though.
First, you can keep the serial numbers on the inside of the vertical tail. The number on the left inside vertical tail panel on the file needs to be mirrored, with the RH panel left as it is.
Next, most of the panel lines on a skin represent the edges of panels that were rivetted together. The rest are things like the edges of control surfaces, hatches and doors. These sort of lines represent gaps of anything up to half an inch in some cases and on a real aircraft you can see this sort of line a lot further away than you can see the panel edges. Now on your skin all the panel lines are the same opacity. Things like the hinge lines are not anywhere near as visible as they should be IMO.
The easiest way to get round this is to make a copy of your panel line layer, call it something like "heavy panel lines". Change the colour of the lines on the copied layer to a bright colour to make them easier to edit. Then simply erase all the lines you don't want on the heavy layer. You should be left with the hinge lines of the flaps, rudders, elevators and ailerons, the bomb bay and undercarriage doors, and the engine cowling air exit flaps. Once you are happy with the editing turn these lines back to black and adjust the opacity of the layer. You want the weight of the lines to match what you would see on a photo of a real B-24 viewed at the same distance.
-
It seems to be coming on well Serenity, there's a couple of things you might want to look at though.
First, you can keep the serial numbers on the inside of the vertical tail. The number on the left inside vertical tail panel on the file needs to be mirrored, with the RH panel left as it is.
Next, most of the panel lines on a skin represent the edges of panels that were rivetted together. The rest are things like the edges of control surfaces, hatches and doors. These sort of lines represent gaps of anything up to half an inch in some cases and on a real aircraft you can see this sort of line a lot further away than you can see the panel edges. Now on your skin all the panel lines are the same opacity. Things like the hinge lines are not anywhere near as visible as they should be IMO.
The easiest way to get round this is to make a copy of your panel line layer, call it something like "heavy panel lines". Change the colour of the lines on the copied layer to a bright colour to make them easier to edit. Then simply erase all the lines you don't want on the heavy layer. You should be left with the hinge lines of the flaps, rudders, elevators and ailerons, the bomb bay and undercarriage doors, and the engine cowling air exit flaps. Once you are happy with the editing turn these lines back to black and adjust the opacity of the layer. You want the weight of the lines to match what you would see on a photo of a real B-24 viewed at the same distance.
Thanks Greebo! Much appreciated! Today I have to take a day off from skinning, but I should be back at it after school tomorrow.
-
With regard to the questions here:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/questionsWitchcraft.html
I got this nice reply from Fred Holdrege, CO of the 790th (Witchcraft's squadron). Bob DeKerf flew as flight engineer on Witchcraft.
--------------
I called Bob deKerf to get the answers. If you write or call him he will be glad to furnish any further information.
Actually the Witch had a number of different looks since she left Rackheath.
The cowlings varied at time after engine changes. The cowlings were taken along with replacement engines and put on Witchcraft. They did not bother to repaint them.
No stripes on bomb bay doors
The grey did not continue into the cowlings
Circle with a P inside after we got overseas. As I recall (Fred), they were the group identifiers before we got the tail markings. Not before
There was no grey on the underside of the cowlings
There were no stripes on the bomb bay doors.
No numbers on engines except when a reeplacement cowling had a number on it when they replaced the engiije.
Fred
-
Also, From Andy Wilkinson:
-----------------
Hi All!
I believe we put pretty much the same questions to Ray Betcher (Witchcraft mechanic) when he was with us in England earlier this year. The current Collings guise of Witchcraft doesn't seem correct with those bright red engine cowlings and I rather fancy they were either grey, silver , or white. Perhaps Ray can add some clarification.
Cheers - Andy
-
I will post more on the cowling colors as that part gets sorted out.
-
So... other than the lack of the P, she looks correct so far?
-
So... other than the lack of the P, she looks correct so far?
I'd go for modification of the period and amplitude of the gray waves as well as addition of the circle P.
Also, it's not clear about the cowling colors, as discussed above. Might be that they all are white or gray as more typical. I'll post more information once I have it.
We'll have to see if the deicing boots can be made more black and if the antiglare dark patch in front of the windshield can be gotten rid of.
Then, it's just on to the fine points (wear, seams, etc.), I suppose.
Also, any hope of having an "Audre" on the front? If not, any way to do it so we have "Au--re" or whatever doesn't cause the smearing?
-
I'd go for modification of the period and amplitude of the gray waves as well as addition of the circle P.
Also, it's not clear about the cowling colors, as discussed above. Might be that they all are white or gray as more typical. I'll post more information once I have it.
We'll have to see if the deicing boots can be made more black and if the antiglare dark patch in front of the windshield can be gotten rid of.
Then, it's just on to the fine points (wear, seams, etc.), I suppose.
Also, any hope of having an "Audre" on the front? If not, any way to do it so we have "Au--re" or whatever doesn't cause the smearing?
The cowling colors alternating between red and white match the black and white photo you posted, unless you think the red was from a different 'era'.
As far as the anti-glare on the nose, theres no getting rid of it. All OD skins in the game are stuck with it.
Already fixed the de-icing boots, so thats not a worry.
As far as Audre, unless I remove the 'd' (And possibly the 'u' and 'r') what you saw posted above is the best we can get.
Also, could you clarify for me "period and amplitude of the gray waves"? You mean have them start earlier?
-
He means make it look like it does in the picture.
-
He means make it look like it does in the picture.
Um... It can't. It cannot look exactly like the picture because a mirroring issue occurs if I lower thhe OD any more than it is already, and we have a different model with a different nose, so... it cannot look exactly like the picture. Obviously, he knows how he wants me to make up for that, so I was hoping he could explain it.
-
The cowling colors alternating between red and white match the black and white photo you posted, unless you think the red was from a different 'era'.
I'm just going by the information posted above by the guys who flew Witchcraft -- see above. I'll post more info on cowling colors when I get it.
As far as the anti-glare on the nose, theres no getting rid of it. All OD skins in the game are stuck with it.
CC.
Already fixed the de-icing boots, so thats not a worry.
Excellent.
As far as Audre, unless I remove the 'd' (And possibly the 'u' and 'r') what you saw posted above is the best we can get.
OK. We might not get "Audre" on the front, but probably something (even "Ae") is better than none at all. Guess we'd have to see it to know.
Also, could you clarify for me "period and amplitude of the gray waves"? You mean have them start earlier?
Sort of like this if possible:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/witch/ahss3-2.jpg)
-
By the way, if the above waves can't be done, that's OK -- I understand there are limitations.
One minor thing, the boundary between the gray and green on Witchcraft seems to be sharp and not fuzzy.
-
I'm just going by the information posted above by the guys who flew Witchcraft -- see above. I'll post more info on cowling colors when I get it.
OK. We might not get "Audre" on the front, but probably something (even "Ae") is better than none at all. Guess we'd have to see it to know.
Sort of like this if possible:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/witch/ahss3-2.jpg)
Yeah, I just went by the black-and-white period image, but if you would rather the other option (all white) that would be a possibility I guess.
As far as the 'Ae' I personally think it should be all or none, but I will let you decide in the end.
That wave is definately possible, and won't be a problem!
-
Just wanted to let you know she hasn't gotten lost, I just got hit with about 4 research papers this weekend, so I will finally have some free time tomorrow afternoon.
-
Sorry for the dark images, its MUCH brighter ingame, but for some reason the SSs are always dark...
Since you havn't said specifically (Or maybe I missed it) whether you want the Red and White cowlings as seen in the WWII photo or the white-gray that was described to you, I have chosen to leave the red and white for two reasons:
1) Its unique. Its something that I have not seen on many other B-24s and will set Witchcraft appart
2) We have photographic proof that red and white alternating cowlings was, in fact, a combat-paintjob, whereas the grey-white is simply the recollection of a crewmember. Its probably accurate as well, just a lot harder to "defend" per say.
But, as always, this is your bird, so I will go with whatever you like sir!
Known issues:
The left-side serial number is reversed. Ive reversed it in the BMP with no effect. Im not sure whats going on there...
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss9.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss8-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss7-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss6-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss5-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss4-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss3-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss2-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss16.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss15.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss14.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss13.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss12.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss11.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss10.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/ahss0.jpg)
-
Serenity, I have noticed this with a lot of your pictures...they are "jagged". They would look a lot better if there was some setting to smooth them out, and make them larger. Also, you're getting better at it, but still need to zoom up closer to your work.
-
Serenity, I have noticed this with a lot of your pictures...they are "jagged". They would look a lot better if there was some setting to smooth them out, and make them larger. Also, you're getting better at it, but still need to zoom up closer to your work.
If you zoom in too close, it starts to fish-eye and look like crap.
Serenity... gonna send you a PM
-
Man I wish I was here when this thread was started I could use that $150. Hell $20 is enough, its not that hard once you get your system down. :)
Serenity send a PM my way when you get a chance.
-
Serenity, I have noticed this with a lot of your pictures...they are "jagged". They would look a lot better if there was some setting to smooth them out, and make them larger. Also, you're getting better at it, but still need to zoom up closer to your work.
I'm not terribly sure whats up with that, its jut like the darkness. It looks GREAT in game, but the screenshots look nothing like it...
-
I'm not terribly sure whats up with that, its jut like the darkness. It looks GREAT in game, but the screenshots look nothing like it...
What video card are you using?
AH does not have built in anti aliasing, so you have to force it on through your hardware. Takes a chunk out of your FPS but looks great.
Also may have to do with the forums compressing the pictures.
-
What video card are you using?
AH does not have built in anti aliasing, so you have to force it on through your hardware. Takes a chunk out of your FPS but looks great.
Also may have to do with the forums compressing the pictures.
Its an nVidea one, but I dont recall which. The thing is I'm game its a lot brighter, its not jagged at all, its great really! Its only in films and screenshots where it starts looking jagged. I know I dont have anti aliasing on though because I couldn't find a setting that had an effect without MASSACREING my frame rate. IIRC the available settings are 2S 4S and 8S. Which would you suggest?
-
If you have some spare HDD space one thing you can do is set up a second copy of AH just for skinning. I do this mainly to avoid the cache rebuilding problem whenever I want to play the game after updating a skin. However doing this also lets you set up the skinning copy for graphics and the playing copy for framerate.
-
If you zoom in too close, it starts to fish-eye and look like crap.
Hit the Z key and use [] to zoom in and out. Removes the fish eye effect.
-
If you have some spare HDD space one thing you can do is set up a second copy of AH just for skinning. I do this mainly to avoid the cache rebuilding problem whenever I want to play the game after updating a skin. However doing this also lets you set up the skinning copy for graphics and the playing copy for framerate.
I do have some spare space, but I don't want to push it so I just change the settings between skinning and gaming. Could that have some effect on this perhaps?
Also, Brooke, just waiting for your oppinion! In my oppinion shes ready to go unless anyone sees something wrong...
-
I thought those "white" patches were actually bare aluminum. Look at the profile Brooke posted.
-
I thought those "white" patches were actually bare aluminum. Look at the profile Brooke posted.
They look white to me, and the same as the white cowlings. So either theyre both white, or perhaps the cowlings are bare aluminum too? What do you think Fencer? (I think white, but you have far more experience with these things than me)
-
For the "circle p", I'd just do one like on this (as I can't find a good real pic of it):
(http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/decals/mg/images/mg48046p1.jpg)
-
I gotta agree with Fencer on this. Bare metal replacement pieces were common although generally painted in the field. I cannot imagine anyone painting replacement panels or such in a non camo color (read as white) unless it had to do with the national markings.
I do love that particular decal sheet Fencer. Great amount of detail on the coloring (particularly where it pointed out the fabric coverings discoloration.) I am going to try to find a similar one for the N1K2-J from them.
ReDhAwK
-
Looks like the Q2s are too big, and there should not be the stencil space on them.
Also the white stripes on the tails are not wide enough.
Any of those engines or other areas leak oil?
I don't see any fuel caps. Where they red as usual or painted OD?
The over all Olive Drab seems a bit dark for a plane that has set outside for as long as that one had by the time you are depicting. Not alot of wear/tear or stains on the paint either and I don't mean chipping. Don't see alot of dirt either.
-
Looks like the Q2s are too big, and there should not be the stencil space on them.
Also the white stripes on the tails are not wide enough.
Any of those engines or other areas leak oil?
I don't see any fuel caps. Where they red as usual or painted OD?
The over all Olive Drab seems a bit dark for a plane that has set outside for as long as that one had by the time you are depicting. Not alot of wear/tear or stains on the paint either and I don't mean chipping. Don't see alot of dirt either.
Do you have any suggestions as to how to depic this wear without it becoming pixelated? When ive tried adding small details to a skin for BUFFs, it looks very pixelated in the end. Same goes for fuel caps, details like that come out pretty badly pixelated. How much wider should the white lines on the tail be? They match the ones in both profiles in that they encompas three-and-about-a-half panels on the leading edge of the tail, and three ribs on the trailing edge.
(Dont read the above as a harsh comeback. its not intended as one, but rather honest questions.)
-
I've been silent in this topic for a while as I have been doing a bunch of research on the colors of Witchcraft.
I'll comment on other things and put up more information in a bit, but here is what I've been working on.
Here is a page that is partially completed talking about some of the finer points of coloration of Witchcraft. My conclusion is that the general modern depictions of Witchcraft (all cowlings red or alternating red and white cowlings) are incorrect, especially for Witchcraft before about 120 missions.
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftColor.html
Here is a page with all decent historical photographs of Witchcraft that I could find, arranged in chronological order as best I can determine. It shows the evolution of cowl and cowl-flap colors over time.
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftHistorical.html
-
I've been silent in this topic for a while as I have been doing a bunch of research on the colors of Witchcraft.
I'll comment on other things and put up more information in a bit, but here is what I've been working on.
Here is a page that is partially completed talking about some of the finer points of coloration of Witchcraft. My conclusion is that the general modern depictions of Witchcraft (all cowlings red or alternating red and white cowlings) are incorrect, especially for Witchcraft before about 120 missions.
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftColor.html
Here is a page with all decent historical photographs of Witchcraft that I could find, arranged in chronological order as best I can determine. It shows the evolution of cowl and cowl-flap colors over time.
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftHistorical.html
Well, Fencer was right then! Bare alluminum. So, the question is, which Witchraft am I doing for you? I have been doing the one from the original black and white image you posted, which would match the bomb count done by RedHawk. Would you like me to do something else?
-
I think I'd pick a bomb count of 100 and thus use the olive-drab/gray-underside cowlings. It looks like, for most of Witchcraft's life, that was the look, as opposed to a short time in the 120-130 mission range where it had the assortment of red (if indeed it was red -- hard to tell from black and white) and aluminum.
Before you do a lot of work on cowlings, though, I will talk to some of the guys in the 790th BS.
Also, there are some other touches that I will get to in my "Color of Witchcraft" document that can be worked on in the meantime.
-
Man I wish I was here when this thread was started I could use that $150. Hell $20 is enough, its not that hard once you get your system down. :)
Serenity send a PM my way when you get a chance.
By the way, I'm happy to contribute some money to folks who contribute artwork for this, including folks who take others' files and improve on them (such as with touchups for wear-and-tear). Redhawk, for example, has already contributed artwork, and I'll make sure some $ flow his way, too.
Guys from the 790th (such as Fred Holdrege, CO of the 790th) have been very helpful and supportive of Witchcraft making it into Aces High. These guys flew this plane and others like it in danger, and in tribute to them, I'd really like (1) to get the skin into Aces High and (2) for it to be a top-notch skin. I can't do it myself, as I don't have the knowledge, the skills, or the software -- but I can chip in some money to help make it happen.
I am fine with it being an effort on the part of several folks -- whatever will result in the end in the best skin.
So, as this project moves along, if anyone sees aspects that you can contribute, please feel free to jump in. I will reward those whose artwork contributions are in the skin.
-
Here are the next steps that I'll do:
1. Finish my document on fine points of coloration of Witchcraft.
2. Suggest any modifications to the current skin (which is shaping up nicely, Serenity) based on that information.
3. Start getting into aspects of wear and tear.
Once this skin is done and in Aces High (assuming HTC lets it in), then I plan to coordinate a small special event to gather films that can be edited into a movie to give to the 790th folks who have been so helpful with information.
-
I think I'd pick a bomb count of 100 and thus use the olive-drab/gray-underside cowlings. It looks like, for most of Witchcraft's life, that was the look, as opposed to a short time in the 120-130 mission range where it had the assortment of red (if indeed it was red -- hard to tell from black and white) and aluminum.
Before you do a lot of work on cowlings, though, I will talk to some of the guys in the 790th BS.
Also, there are some other touches that I will get to in my "Color of Witchcraft" document that can be worked on in the meantime.
Just my $.02. This is totally your choice though. I personally think the mixed-cowlings are the most attractive for this skin. They WERE sported in combat, and look very sexy IMHO as well as setting her apart from other B-24s ingame.
-
Just my $.02. This is totally your choice though. I personally think the mixed-cowlings are the most attractive for this skin. They WERE sported in combat, and look very sexy IMHO as well as setting her apart from other B-24s ingame.
I like the look of them, too. It's unusual and colorful. The problem, though, is that I can only guess that they were red, and that might be a wrong guess. Some of the guys in the 790th don't remember them being red and are even wondering if red might be incorrect.
Also, for the life of Witchcraft, it had the (assuming it's even correct) red and aluminum cowlings only for a handful of its 130 missions -- perhaps only 10-15 of 130. Most of its life (maybe as much as 110 of 130) seems like it might have been the olive-drab/gray coloration.
-
I like the look of them, too. It's unusual and colorful. The problem, though, is that I can only guess that they were red, and that might be a wrong guess. Some of the guys in the 790th don't remember them being red and are even wondering if red might be incorrect.
Also, for the life of Witchcraft, it had the (assuming it's even correct) red and aluminum cowlings only for a handful of its 130 missions -- perhaps only 10-15 of 130. Most of its life (maybe as much as 110 of 130) seems like it might have been the olive-drab/gray coloration.
Alright, that makes sense!
-
I have completed my research into coloration based on historical photos. All results are now posted here:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftColor.html
If I have any updates to it (such as from talking to the 790th BS guys), I will post here that there are changes and what they are.
-
Alright, so, to sum up, the version I am doing for you has:
All OD cowlings?
white stripes along the bomb bay doors
NO waves along the bomb bay doors
The number '3' on the inside number 3 engine
The number '9' on the inside number 2 engine
Is this all correct?
(Also, a correction, in the two images you posted shoing that there WERE wave boundaries on the bay-doors:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftHistorical/IMAGE_from_perry2.jpg
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftHistorical/witch7.jpg
Those lines look perfectly straight to me. Am I looking in the wrong spot?)
-
Heya Lord Brooke,
I appreciate the thought sir, but honestly I'm fine :) Just happy to do a little part for the ones that really flew her. I would be happy to take part in the Reel that you make for them after the finished product is in the air (if theres room.)
ReDhAwK
-
Alright, so, to sum up, the version I am doing for you has:
All OD cowlings?
white stripes along the bomb bay doors
NO waves along the bomb bay doors
The number '3' on the inside number 3 engine
The number '9' on the inside number 2 engine
Is this all correct?
Yes, assuming engines 3 and 2 are what I think they are (outermost engines).
However, you should wait a little bit before any mods, as I plan to try to talk to Witchcraft's flight engineer/top gunner over the weekend. He might have corrections.
(Also, a correction, in the two images you posted shoing that there WERE wave boundaries on the bay-doors:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftHistorical/IMAGE_from_perry2.jpg
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftHistorical/witch7.jpg
Those lines look perfectly straight to me. Am I looking in the wrong spot?)
See the waviness below the red dots.
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8131/imagefromperry2wavesiz6.jpg)
-
Yes, assuming engines 3 and 2 are what I think they are (outermost engines).
However, you should wait a little bit before any mods, as I plan to try to talk to Witchcraft's flight engineer/top gunner over the weekend. He might have corrections.
See the waviness below the red dots.
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8131/imagefromperry2wavesiz6.jpg)
Ah! lol. So I was looking at the wrong part.
As for modifying it, dont worry, every mark I make is on its own layer so its all easily switched and changed. I think ive got 4 different versions in one file, lol
-
I got this interesting information today from Janice Bates, daughter of Ray Betcher (Witchcraft mechanic):
"Hi, Andy! I talked to Dad this morning -- he says the Witchcraft cowlings were originally the 'olive drab' color of the plane. As engines were replaced, they may have gotten ones that were that color or unpainted(silver), but they NEVER had any that were red. He says he does have a picture of the Witch that has some of each color. If anyone needs to talk to him, his phone number is . . . Let me know how the flight simulator is going, if you can. We'd love to see it and/or get a copy if possible."
-
I got this interesting information today from Janice Bates, daughter of Ray Betcher (Witchcraft mechanic):
"Hi, Andy! I talked to Dad this morning -- he says the Witchcraft cowlings were originally the 'olive drab' color of the plane. As engines were replaced, they may have gotten ones that were that color or unpainted(silver), but they NEVER had any that were red. He says he does have a picture of the Witch that has some of each color. If anyone needs to talk to him, his phone number is . . . Let me know how the flight simulator is going, if you can. We'd love to see it and/or get a copy if possible."
Brilliant! Ill knock out the red right now.
-
I have a final few questions in to Ray Betcher (mechanic for witchcraft). The questions are here:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/questionsWitchcraft.html
I'll post more information as I get it.
-
Got it! My guess is orange-yellow on the numbers, same for the prop tips, and either gray or more likely insignia white on the Q2. The serial number should, almost without a doubt be orange-yellow. Those are just my bets until we get the confirmation though.
-
Any new developments Brooke?
-
Any new developments Brooke?
I haven't heard back from Ray Betcher yet.
-
I haven't heard back from Ray Betcher yet.
Alright, shes just waiting for more details!
-
This just in from Janice Bates, Ray Betcher's daughter, with regard to these questions:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/questionsWitchcraft.html
"He says the Collings Foundation did a good job of copying the colors on the plane (with the exception of the cowlings). The "3" on the number 4 engine was yellow and it was there for the top turret gunner to use to keep his bearings. "Q2" was light gray, the same color as the lower half of the plane. The tail numbers were yellow. The first 4-5 inches of the props were yellow, painted to be seen (in use) as a circle so people wouldn't walk into them!"
Looks like we are good to proceed.
If anyone has any other questions on markings or coloration, please let me know asap. Janice offered to ask any questions we have at the 467th BG reunion, which happens this upcoming weekend. Ray Betcher and another Witchcraft mechanic will be there, as well as Audre and her husband (John Kramer, I believe -- bombardier) and the man who painted the nose art on Witchcraft.
-
Serenity, would it be possible for you tomorrow to e-mail me the .res file as you have it so far? I don't mean with the above changes -- I mean just whichever one you have right now. I'd like to load it up on my computer and make some screenshots from it to show the work in progress and also so that I can illustrate any suggestions I might have. My e-mail is brooke "at" electraforge.com .
-
Serenity, would it be possible for you tomorrow to e-mail me the .res file as you have it so far? I don't mean with the above changes -- I mean just whichever one you have right now. I'd like to load it up on my computer and make some screenshots from it to show the work in progress and also so that I can illustrate any suggestions I might have. My e-mail is brooke "at" electraforge.com .
Already in the mail!
-
Heres the latest batch of images. I know the plane SHOULD be in the air, but my mouse wouldnt control the throttle no matter what I did, and I didn't have a stick with me. Notes:
We have two problems. The white lines on the bomb bay door are mirrored halfway up the doors. Also, the numbers on the cowlings are mirrored on the outside of the engines.
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss10.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss11.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss12.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss13.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss14.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss15.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss16.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss17.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss18.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss19.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss20.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss21.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss22.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss23.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss24.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss25.jpg)
-
Can you e-mail me the latest res file? My e-mail address is brooke "at" electraforge.com
-
Can you e-mail me the latest res file? My e-mail address is brooke "at" electraforge.com
Yep, mailing right now.
-
Comments so far:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftSkin.html
There is a link in that document to every decent historical pic I could find of Witchcraft. So, if in doubt, that is the place to look.
-
Comments so far:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/b24_flights/witchcraftSkin.html
There is a link in that document to every decent historical pic I could find of Witchcraft. So, if in doubt, that is the place to look.
lol. I feel stupid. The Circle P and a couple of the other changes you mentioned were on a layer I accidentally deleted. I should have all of this done for you by later this evening!
As far as your question about using the original BMP as a shading layer, no, that wouldn't work. Was there a particular effect you wanted to see? I can replicate it another way Im sure.
-
How does this look?
Notes: The Circle-P needs to be dampened a tad; Also, the lightened control surfaces are a REALLY cheap attempt, I just wanted to know what you thought of that process; Lastly, theres a tad bit of grey on the top side of the starboard flap.
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss15-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss14-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss13-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss12-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss11-1.jpg)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Aces%20High/My%20Skins/Witchcraft/Next%20Batch/ahss10-1.jpg)
-
I like the lightened control surfaces. Can you e-mail me the bmp file, and I'll look at it from various views?
-
I like the lightened control surfaces. Can you e-mail me the bmp file, and I'll look at it from various views?
Sending now!
-
You know, I started to laugh about the 9-3 markings for the gunners' use. I was thinking, are his feet tattooed with L and R to match the ones stenciled on his boots? Then I thought about how modern air forces are using a Left/Right call plus the clock format these days to avoid mistakes (ie: Bandit, right, 2 o'clock instead of Bandit, 2 o'clock). Seems like an earlier version of this human factors issue at work. :)
-
Serenity, which program are you using to make the skin -- is it Photoshop?
-
Serenity, which program are you using to make the skin -- is it Photoshop?
No, GIMP.
-
So, any word Brooke?
-
By chance I stumbled across this very thread. I saw this plane in Eau Claire Wisconsin in July '07. I hope I can help in any way and please use/copy whatever pictures you want. I uploaded them onto my website and have 6 outside photos of the plane (2 are panoramic from each side).
Full res pics are here:
http://www.derstuhl.net/images/b24_witchcraft/
Smaller pics:
(http://www.derstuhl.net/images/b24_witchcraft/IMG_1617.jpg)
(http://www.derstuhl.net/images/b24_witchcraft/IMG_1616.jpg)
(http://www.derstuhl.net/images/b24_witchcraft/IMG_1621.jpg)
(http://www.derstuhl.net/images/b24_witchcraft/IMG_1622.jpg)
(http://www.derstuhl.net/images/b24_witchcraft/ST_1618_stitched.jpg)
(http://www.derstuhl.net/images/b24_witchcraft/ST_1629_stitched.jpg)
-
So, any word Brooke?
Now that BoB 2008 is done, I would normally have time, but now the holidays and other things are crashing in.
This is going to take longer than I thought -- no eta yet.
-
I have finished all of my touches.
However, I'm having difficulty seeing the skin in AH offline. In "C:\Program Files\HTC\Aces High II\skins\b24j-1", I have the b24j-1.bmp file and a b24j.txt file that has "****Witchcraft****" as its first line. AH rebuilds its cache, but offline, I don't see Witchcraft in there. I even select one by one all of the skins for the B-24, and none of them is Witchcraft.
The b24j-1.bmp file is a 256-color (8-bit) Windows bitmap file.
What am I doing wrong?
-
The folder needs to be B24J_1, not -1. ;)
-
The folder needs to be B24J_1, not -1. ;)
Excellent! Thanks -- that did it.
-
Now another question. I can see the Witchcraft skin offline in AH, but when I record a film, I don't see the skin in the film (it defaults to another skin). Any way around that, so that I can see the skin in the film?
-
Now another question. I can see the Witchcraft skin offline in AH, but when I record a film, I don't see the skin in the film (it defaults to another skin). Any way around that, so that I can see the skin in the film?
Nope. The film displays skins (If im guessing right) by code. It reads the code for the skin, and matches it with the aces high stuff. (I know what I mean, just not how to say it).
-
Alas, no pics from film viewer then, which would allow me to get much better shots.
Here's how she's looking after some of the tweaks that I wanted to implement.
-- Traced the belly waves from pictures of Witchcraft (pasted onto the skin as a template).
-- Adjusted position and rotation of nose art slightly (such as to position on armor plate).
-- Added outline of cockpit armor plates.
-- Adjusted gray/green boundary on engine cowlings to correspond with what Ray Betcher says they were (when not bare metal).
-- Antialiased edges on white diagonal stripes on tail.
-- Antialiased light patches on control surfaces.
-- Put in olive drab wrapping around wing leading edge (to line up with bottom of deicing boots).
-- Made tail numbering bigger and positioned according to pics of Witchcraft (i.e., where the numbers cross the rudder edge).
-- Adjusted the materials.txt properties to have less specularity (for paint vs. metal).
Here is a link to a page with some screen shots:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/witch/witchSoFar.htm
It seems to me that 3D and wear could come from other B-24 skins people have done, so I sent out some e-mail inquiring for such things. I'll post here depending on what I hear back.
Serenity, before investing a lot of time in more 3D and wear, let's see if we can get that and avoid having to re-invent the wheel.
-
Sure! Hey, its your skin, whatever you want to do with it!
-
By chance I stumbled across this very thread. I saw this plane in Eau Claire Wisconsin in July '07. I hope I can help in any way and please use/copy whatever pictures you want. I uploaded them onto my website and have 6 outside photos of the plane (2 are panoramic from each side).
Fulmar, thanks for the close ups!
-
I added the red (I assume it's red) fire-extinguisher panel on the right side nose and updated the web page with pics:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/witch/witchSoFar.htm
I also e-mailed the link to Fred Holdrege (CO of the 790th BS) and Ray Betcher (mechanic for Witchcraft) to see if they have any suggested changes so far.
-
A sample pic from among several, just to quickly show how things are looking:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/witch/witchSample20081130.jpg)
-
Looks great. I'd use it.