Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: caldera on May 03, 2015, 07:16:24 PM
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With these low numbers lately, it's often just a two sided fight - with the third side getting rolled by gusts of tumbleweeds. With only 2 teams, there would always be action, regardless of numbers.
A few other changes would have to be made for a two sided war to work:
1. ENY has to kick in much sooner, effectively countering the numbers advantage of the more populated side.
2. 1 hour side switching*, enabling crutch plane dependent folks to fly their favorite plane 24/7 and helping to balance the sides.
* also allow unlimited switching to the low numbers side.
Otherwise, everything else would be the same as the LW MA, as opposed to AvA; with their restricted plane sets and lack of icons.
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:aok :aok :aok
No ENY required if each subsequent player that logs on goes to the low number side = max advantage is 1 player
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-1
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Just to make it easy, call one side the Winners and the other side the Losers. That way people will know easily which side to join to bomb defenseless buildings.
Maybe to make it even easier just allow people to join the Winners side, and have AIs on the Losers side that spawn randomly every minute or two and fly around the base around 3k and put up a token defense to be shot down so they can get some kills. Call it the 'Co-op' arena?
Wiley.
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I think we should have a map that is two sided and see what happens. Change to 1-hour sideswitch and see what happens.
I've read on these boards that AH did the two-side map well over a decade ago and ran into problems. I don't doubt that. Times and conditions have changed.
boo
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:aok :aok :aok
No ENY required if each subsequent player that logs on goes to the low number side = max advantage is 1 player
That would make it hard to fly with your squaddies or other friends.
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That would make it hard to fly with your squaddies or other friends.
No doubt. But the designed 3 way war ended some time ago with every country having its "time in the bucket".
With everyone looking for a balanced fight (read fair), 2 sides with automatic number balancing is the way to go. Don't like who your flying with? Just keep re-logging until you get the side you like.
:aok
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I would keep it the way it is, and adjust the ENY calculation.
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Why not go play WT until Hitech releases AH3? You sound like you need some time in a warm sunny place with drink that has a little umbrella stuck in it.
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No doubt. But the designed 3 way war ended some time ago with every country having its "time in the bucket".
With everyone looking for a balanced fight (read fair), 2 sides with automatic number balancing is the way to go. Don't like who your flying with? Just keep re-logging until you get the side you like.
:aok
even if there's the same number of players on each country the game still wont be balanced. I am pretty sure if you think about it you will see why. I'll give you a hint, the players themselves.
semp
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I'm ok with it as long as Bish get dissolved for crimes against humanity.
Call one side Team America the other side rest of the world. :rock
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I use to think two sided wars would be better. We had a good thread on this last year. I was wrong. Three sides avoid a lot of problems. Not perfect but better than two sides.
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There is no doubt that generally 3 sides is better than 2 sides for various reasons.
The problem is, when the numbers are so low that only one single significant battle happens on the whole map, involving most of those two side's active players. That's happening more often during current Euro times.
You can then only either bomb stuff or grab some bases virtually unopposed if you are on the neglected side.
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I'm ok with it as long as Bish get dissolved for crimes against humanity.
Call one side Team America the other side rest of the world. :rock
This will not work since i believe majority of players are in the united states. I know things will change after the new update comes out. Hang in there guys...... :rock :rock :rock :rock
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A few years back there was one Late War Arena, then at a certain time every evening it closed and it went to two LWAs. It was a hassle but very livable. You would typically log in several times, see that one Arena was full, go to the other. It wasn't ideal, though it worked.
The reason AH went away from that arrangement was numbers. When the bewitching hour happened, and the one large Arena closed, 100+ would consistently not log into two arenas.
I only mention that in response to those worried about the automatic side balancing, resulting in multiple log-ins. With automatic balancing, remove the "12 hour" rule and ENY/Perks I say give it a shot. I agree with the Snailman, the current three-side war isn't working so well.
Dear AH, times have changed and what didn't work well a decade ago may improve the model today.
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I'd say just make ENY appallingly draconian. Set it as an exponential function of the percentage of people you have over the lowest numbered side. 1% numbers advantage gives 1 ENY. 2 gives 4 ENY. A mere 3% more players? No more P-51's, no spixteens, no typhoons, no La-7's. By a mere 5% advantage in numbers, you're limited to ENY 30+ aircraft, since I don't believe we have any aircraft at ENY 26, or 29 or anything. By even 6.3% advantage, you're stuck flying 110C as your best fighter bomber.
The beauty of it is that having more numbers puts you at a disadvantage. This would rather emphatically encourage people to change sides to balance the numbers.
Additionally, have the perk multiplier increase by a similarly exponential function 1+x^2, where x = largest country population percentage in terms of the smallest country population percentage, minus 100.
The overall goal being to encourage side switching as strongly as possible, rather than to balance the fight despite a numbers disparity.
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The beauty of it is that having more numbers puts you at a disadvantage. This would rather emphatically encourage people to change sides to balance the numbers.
This will not work.
The majority of players is side loyal, at least over the medium run. At best, the may switch every few months along with their whole squad. They want to fight/win with those familiar names they see on every day. If the limit gets too crippling, they'd rather log off.
In contrast, the number of players willing to switch in a heartbeat is very limited. And those don't need an incentive that large - actually what holds those few back now is the 12 limit, and not a bigger carrot.
That's also why a strict autobalancing with 2 sides won't work, because that would mean tearing whole squads and teams apart.
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Make it five countries and split them up by nationality, where British planes are only available to Great Britain, American planes are only available to the US, and so forth. Lend-lease aircraft are available to all countries that flew them, regardless of where they originated from.
It works quite well in most other games that use this setup (before anyone throws it out there, Axis vs. Allies is not the same as all countries vs all others).
Combined with smaller maps, you'd have instant action.
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Perhaps, as a solution to the ultra squad's, which I suspect are a big reason for County loyalty, we could cap the number of players on channel, as well as the nominal squad size.
Smaller groups would likely be more mobile in their choice of country, since they don't have that bond of we're a "squad" to tie them together. Unless people get a lot more emotionally attached to the chess piece itself than I figured, there has to be a way to facilitate voluntary number balancing.
Whether or not we have the best system in place, I don't know. But we certainly don't have a good system in place. Perhaps there is no truly good system when dealing with rival group dynamics. But I figure there has to be something worth trying.
Perhaps rework ENY with the current countries. .5x^2, or even .3x^2 for ENY might work effectively to help balance the fight. But I refuse to believe that theres nothing else we should be trying.
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Make it five countries and split them up by nationality, where British planes are only available to Great Britain, American planes are only available to the US, and so forth. Lend-lease aircraft are available to all countries that flew them, regardless of where they originated from.
It works quite well in most other games that use this setup (before anyone throws it out there, Axis vs. Allies is not the same as all countries vs all others).
Combined with smaller maps, you'd have instant action.
+1
Although the plane line ups would have to be balanced. I could see the US team simply bombing everything.
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+1
Although the plane line ups would have to be balanced. I could see the US team simply bombing everything.
Generally speaking, US planes are not as effective fighter vs fighter at the altitudes most commonly fought at in the MA, so it balances out.
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Make it five countries and split them up by nationality, where British planes are only available to Great Britain, American planes are only available to the US, and so forth. Lend-lease aircraft are available to all countries that flew them, regardless of where they originated from.
Team America would been ENY'd to hell, just for the available bombr selection alone.
Team Japan would have no GV, and a abysmal selection of bombers. Also about nothing to hunt team America's strat raiders at 30k+
A setup like this doesn't work in the "win the war" MA environment. In scenarios the national based setup only works because of a carefully balanced setup with strict rules and special victory conditions and under GM control.
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You guys are still missing the point. The idea of "finding action" means different things to different people.
1. The Fights, those that are looking for air to air combat, anywhere anytime.
2. The Strategist, those looking at the entire map and planning efforts to win the map
3. The GVers, those looking for GV fights, anywhere anytime.
4. The Tacticians, those looking to setup missions.
5. The Loyalist, those doing what ever it takes to defend their "country" and help it win the map.
6. The Developers, those making maps, aircraft and gv skins, and sound packages.
All of these are part of what AH is about and is "action". Over the years this is what it has evolved to, and I think its pretty good. Do we need changes made? Maybe, but they should be done carefully, NOT a whole scale overhaul. Besides that this is not our decision to make, this is Hitechs living we are talking about, and those that work for him. I think they have done a pretty good job so far, and I believe that with the release of AH III we will see another major evolution of AH to an even better game.
So keep dreaming but be patient, and realistic. :cheers:
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Team America would been ENY'd to hell, just for the available bombr selection alone.
Team Japan would have no GV, and a abysmal selection of bombers. Also about nothing to hunt team America's strat raiders at 30k+
A setup like this doesn't work in the "win the war" MA environment. In scenarios the national based setup only works because of a carefully balanced setup with strict rules and special victory conditions and under GM control.
Let me clarify - with this setup, remove ENY and the 12-hour rule.
This setup worked quite well in Fighter Ace, which had a nearly-identical arrangement to our current MA (minus ENY and the 12-hour rule). There were NEVER (as in, never) side-balancing issues or cases of overpowered planesets, which is one of the reasons I am perplexed as to why side-balancing here is such an issue. However, it becomes obvious that this is due to fact all countries are inherently the same, with no reason to choose one over another aside from personal preference.
Back to the proposal, what happens with a setup like this is that countries end up fighting historical fight scenarios using historical tactics. For example, one of the reasons the LA-7 is so apparently overpowered in our current MA is because it dominates fights down low, while other aircraft (in the MA environment, such as P-51's) can cover it at higher altitudes. By limiting plane choices by country, Russian planes lack fast, high-altitude performers, and the LA is forced into quick-strike type of aircraft. It is more easily controlled by opposing P-51's and F4U's coming in at higher altitudes.
Splitting the planesets balances the country fights quite readily, as serves as its own method of encouraging rotation. It especially encourages side rotation for larger squads, while providing historical arrangements for squads that prefer to be country-specific.
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American planes biggest advantage is they can carry a payload equal to most other countries medium bombers and still be competitive in fighter vs fighter combat.
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With these low numbers lately, it's often just a two sided fight - with the third side getting rolled by gusts of tumbleweeds. With only 2 teams, there would always be action, regardless of numbers.
A few other changes would have to be made for a two sided war to work:
1. ENY has to kick in much sooner, effectively countering the numbers advantage of the more populated side.
2. 1 hour side switching*, enabling crutch plane dependent folks to fly their favorite plane 24/7 and helping to balance the sides.
* also allow unlimited switching to the low numbers side.
Otherwise, everything else would be the same as the LW MA, as opposed to AvA; with their restricted plane sets and lack of icons.
The fronts would be more dynamic. It was a lot of fun in Warbirds.
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Fighter Ace did so well with this setup that nobody plays there now. :P
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Fighter Ace did so well with this setup that nobody plays there now. :P
They had more numbers when they shut down then AH has currently, so it's still a relevant suggestion. That's entirely why I suggested it, as it maintained balance until the end.
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I posted an idea in the Wishlist forum that could be used to help side-balance (I'm in the 3-way MA camp; AvA arena is for 2-sided conflict); Auto Strategic Bombing function. :airplane:
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They had more numbers when they shut down then AH has currently, so it's still a relevant suggestion. That's entirely why I suggested it, as it maintained balance until the end.
That's surprising. Do you know what caused FA to shut their doors?
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Kind of a bait and switch. AH with low numbers is not closing it's doors. The owner is busy coding AH3. I suspect the owner is accepting low subscription numbers as a cost of doing business to get the next version finished. In the end analysis, FA closed it's doors for some business reason, while AH doors are open for some business reason.
Any arguments about FA are as specious as, Bruce Lee could have kicked some martial arts movie hero's arse a year after his grave was filled in. Lee was dead, that new actor wasn't. Aces High is not FA.
The OP has asked for a two sided arena with the MA ride choices in tact. The AvA CM's can implement that as easily as any of you can create and setup a custom arena the same. Late nights with low numbers, your only problem would be herding everyone to the AvA to resume game play. IF!!, the AvA CM were willing to reboot that arena at some point for that purpose every evening.
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That's surprising. Do you know what caused FA to shut their doors?
Summarized, lack of a sustainable business projection. They had overhead costs and were in need of a game redesign, and they couldn't fund that off of the declining playerbase. The game had lost subscriber numbers, but it wasn't dead - they simply didn't believe it was worth running for long-term profitability.
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Any arguments about FA are as specious as, Bruce Lee could have kicked some martial arts movie hero's arse a year after his grave was filled in. Lee was dead, that new actor wasn't. Aces High is not FA.
"Specious"? Are you even familiar with what the word actually means? Because, unless it's been tried, there's no way it would meet the definition. And no, a decision not to try it is not the same as having tried it.
A proper use of the word specious: "bustr was specious in his whine that Skyyr was killing him because his tracers were turned off."
Even ignoring that, your argument is still logically flawed, as it breaks into the territory of correlation vs causation (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation). FA might be dead, but that does not mean that the mechanics used in it are invalid or the cause of its death.
The primary issue we have here is side-balancing. The suggestion suggested has a proven, as well as historical, track record. It stands as a legitimate alternative. Whether or not it is considered and implemented is another deal entirely.
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Summarized, lack of a sustainable business projection. They had overhead costs and were in need of a game redesign, and they couldn't fund that off of the declining playerbase. The game had lost subscriber numbers, but it wasn't dead - they simply didn't believe it was worth running for long-term profitability.
Interesting, always figured it would have resembled what warbirds is today. Was FA the product of a smaller company relatively speaking?
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They had more numbers when they shut down then AH has currently, so it's still a relevant suggestion. That's entirely why I suggested it, as it maintained balance until the end.
And you know this of course because you were told what the numbers were by those who ran fighter ace and you've been told what the numbers are in Aces High by HiTech.
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And you know this of course because you were told what the numbers were by those who ran fighter ace and you've been told what the numbers in Aces High by HiTech.
We're not talking active subs, we're talking active players. I'm sure we would all agree that having 10k subs means nothing to gameplay if no one logs on to play.
I know the numbers because I play most days of the week and have for the last 15 months. FA had ~200-300 in Territorial Combat (their version of the MA), with another 100-200 in the Arcade Arenas most every night. To be clear, those were week nights.
AH is lucky to break 300 players on a weekend now across all arenas. Last Friday there were just at 300 players on, including for the FSO, AvA, and EW/MW arenas.
This past weekend was rather dismal, and I couldn't believe how few players there were online. A big contributor to this was the Bishop's HQ being down, and then the lopsided teams where Bishops had lost half of their bases, but neither the Rooks nor the Knights were capturing each other's fields. Bishops literally had less than half of the Knight's numbers for 3+ hours, and the Knights ENY was insanely high (to the point the musketeers were flying LA-5's - that's how bad it was).
All of the suggestions thus far are the same solution with slightly different tweaks. My suggestion was simply to try another approach that has been known to work in similar games.
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Last Friday there were just at 300 players on, including for FSO.
FSO didn't run last Friday.
If you can't track that, how the devil are we supposed to trust your idea of subscribers?
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FSO didn't run last Friday.
If you can't track that, how the devil are we supposed to trust your idea of subscribers?
You caught me before I edited it. I was simply referring to the numbers in all arenas (I always check the FSO arena numbers and MA numbers on Friday nights), whether or not it ran is not something I actively track, as I rarely participate in it.
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Interesting, always figured it would have resembled what warbirds is today. Was FA the product of a smaller company relatively speaking?
Yes, it was very much a small company known as Ketsujin Studios. Not sure what's happened to it since.
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In the beginning HTC messed with all types of setups and they decided 3 sides worked best. Say what you will, FA is gone, WWII on line is nothing. Country specific teams won't work. The war wasn't balanced nor did it end in a stalemate. The game should be as balanced as possible at all times. If not people get discouraged and leave creating a poor business model.
ENY is not to push people to switch sides. It does have the added benefit but is not it's purpose. If it was, the 12 hour rule wouldn't be there and we would have more people switching. No switching sides is NOT the intended purpose.
ENY is used to handicap the team with the most players by disallowing them the better equipment. The idea being that 5 guys in good fighters should be able to handle 10 guys in crappy fighters. ENY in a moderately full arena, 200-300 players works fine. The problem as most issues with the game happens when there is a low population. Just a couple people logging on or off can cause wild swings in the ENY penalty. Best fix is to get a lot more Euro time players playing :D
Another fix might be what they did when we had the dual MA arenas. During the Eruo prime times there was enough people playing to get good numbers in both late war arenas so they would shut down the dual arenas and open a single LW arena. Later as US prime time was coming on they would close the single LW arena and open the dual LW arenas again. They could do the same but use only small maps for the Euro timed arena condensing the action better for the smaller numbers.
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Yes, it was very much a small company known as Ketsujin Studios. Not sure what's happened to it since.
http://vd.ketsujin.com/
Not much there anymore.
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Fighter Ace did so well with this setup that nobody plays there now. :P
It was never even. During US primetime, USA always had the most players, Japan always had the least.
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Does anyone know what Fighter Aces plane roster was?
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It was never even. During US primetime, USA always had the most players, Japan always had the least.
Numbers might have been higher on one team, yet you rarely EVER saw one country conquering another country because of raw numbers. Yet again, testament to how the gameplay worked. The only time numbers "mattered" was when the numbers were due to a squad having a squad night with the goal of conquering a map (NRF/BAT/ALL41 did this frequently). And even then, it wasn't the numbers, it was the fact the players were playing specifically to a coordinated end.
By the way, US was always by far the largest due to the noobs always went US because they were patriotic. Despite 2-3x the odds, the US was one of the easier teams to fight in general. Numbers made little difference. But, if you wanted to switch sides regardless, you could do it easily.
Japan (JP) numbers outnumbered the other countries 2:1 and 3:1 over Japanese primetime hours (FA had a huge Japanese playerbase), yet you rarely ever saw JP dominating the map either. Raw numbers rarely ever correlated to map wins. The way the planesets were split gave every country inherent strengths and weaknesses, and make the gameplay more tactical in general. What won maps was teamwork, not numbers.
The distinction that FA had in the team aspect was that it required pilots who knew how to fly their planes effectively. There was no upping an LA-7 because you just got shot down by one. It resulted in a much higher skill-level of opponent.
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It resulted in a much higher skill-level of opponent.
Took a bit for you to get to the point you wanted to make. Everyone is fooled by you sir, congratulations.
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+1. Ive been Pro- 2 sides for years now.
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Numbers might have been higher on one team, yet you rarely EVER saw one country conquering another country because of raw numbers. Yet again, testament to how the gameplay worked. The only time numbers "mattered" was when the numbers were due to a squad having a squad night with the goal of conquering a map (NRF/BAT/ALL41 did this frequently). And even then, it wasn't the numbers, it was the fact the players were playing specifically to a coordinated end.
By the way, US was always by far the largest due to the noobs always went US because they were patriotic. Despite 2-3x the odds, the US was one of the easier teams to fight in general. Numbers made little difference. But, if you wanted to switch sides regardless, you could do it easily.
Japan (JP) numbers outnumbered the other countries 2:1 and 3:1 over Japanese primetime hours (FA had a huge Japanese playerbase), yet you rarely ever saw JP dominating the map either. Raw numbers rarely ever correlated to map wins. The way the planesets were split gave every country inherent strengths and weaknesses, and make the gameplay more tactical in general. What won maps was teamwork, not numbers.
The distinction that FA had in the team aspect was that it required pilots who knew how to fly their planes effectively. There was no upping an LA-7 because you just got shot down by one. It resulted in a much higher skill-level of opponent.
I dunno skyyr I saw Japan conquer the map with a 5:1 advantage most evenings their prime time 50-60 vs 10 on other teams. I however got many kills in the process :devil
As for FA having more numbers that is debatable. I left for that very reason, when all the Japanese players logged there were no more than 50 - 60 players at 6pm UK time until US numbers built back up. AH has always had triple figures since playing here at that time which has only really tailed off in the last 2-3 years. Would get up to 600-700 on weekends which was un-heard of in FA.
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I dunno skyyr I saw Japan conquer the map with a 5:1 advantage most evenings their prime time 50-60 vs 10 on other teams. I however got many kills in the process :devil
As for FA having more numbers that is debatable. I left for that very reason, when all the Japanese players logged there were no more than 50 - 60 players at 6pm UK time until US numbers built back up. AH has always had triple figures since playing here at that time which has only really tailed off in the last 2-3 years. Would get up to 600-700 on weekends which was un-heard of in FA.
Currently, we're lucky to have 60 players in the entire arena during what would be Japanese prime time. Even then, FA's numbers were higher. But, this isn't about FA vs AH as much as it is the team arrangement.
And again, I'm referring to the numbers now. I'm sure that AH numbers set to be higher, as there were commonly 400+ in the MA when I started 15 months or so ago. Now we're lucky to regularly break 300, and that's not a good thing.
My suggestion is simply to try something different (yet something that's known to work) instead of trying slightly different variations of what is functionally the same thing as what we currently have.
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Fighter Ace did so well with this setup that nobody plays there now. :P
AH w three sides is riding FA's bumper with two...
It deserves a shot.
In WBs it was fun. Not like now with fronts that move only based on time zone. Zzzzzz.
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Air Attack\FA passed through too many hands as a business unit. Then was kept alive by Vange as a labor of love, not because of it's revenue generating abilities. He had the personal fortune if you dig around a bit, to have kept it's doors open even now out of pocket. Aces High has been in Hitech's hands since the beginning while he is now creating it's third generation.
It still amazes me the number of game subscribers and forum denizens who want this game to fail like FA. They take every opportunity to thinly veil their vitriol towards Hitech, while wishing his company to fail. If Hitech was perceived to be making this game look like FA, WT or IL2, it would fail.
The words below are massaged a bit but, you don't look good looking like your competition in a major news release.
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An active and vibrant community interacts on Ketsujin's dedicated newsgroup servers and the Fighter Ace website (http://fighterace.ketsujin.com) includes information about the many aircraft, battlegrounds and events featured in the game. Fighter Ace includes full support for player organized squadrons and free-lancing single pilots alike. Whether in a squad or independently, everyone can join the fun.
Fighter Ace can be enjoyed for the low price of only $14.95 USD per month and new players can take advantage of a two-week free trial with no obligation. For more information about Fighter Ace and the Two Week Free Trial, visit http://fighterace.ketsujin.com
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Make it five countries and split them up by nationality, where British planes are only available to Great Britain, American planes are only available to the US, and so forth. Lend-lease aircraft are available to all countries that flew them, regardless of where they originated from.
It works quite well in most other games that use this setup (before anyone throws it out there, Axis vs. Allies is not the same as all countries vs all others).
Combined with smaller maps, you'd have instant action.
Count me in. What we have now doesn't work a bit.
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Let me guess, you came over from FA also??
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Let me guess, you came over from FA also??
Negatory. Let me guess, you don't read threads before posting?
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Count me in. What we have now doesn't work a bit.
3 works great! Its not the number of countries that is the issue. Its how the players play the game.
Many of these players are of the "Call of Duty", "World of Warcraft" ilk. The game is run in the bare minimums. Spawn attack until dead, repeat. Over and over again. Very little changes, it's no wonder they call it "grinding". That is how these players come in and play this game. Grab the fastest cannon bird run to the next base with 50 other players bomb the crap out of everything and hope a goon gets through before a defender get there from the next base over. If captured move to next base, if goon dies, move to next base. Over and over again until they gert bored and move off to the next game they hear about.
This game is rich in depth of play, history, and game mechanics, unfortunately most of it is ignored in the race to win the war. 2 countries, 5 countries, it won't change anything in how these players play the game. Game mechanics will have to be changed to "steer" players into a richer game play experience. If not they will do the same thing over and over again until they are bored and leave.
Oh, has anyone else noticed that tying for last place in anything now sets you at 1055. 6 months ago it was 1873. :(
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Oh, has anyone else noticed that tying for last place in anything now sets you at 1055. 6 months ago it was 1873. :(
You can't really compare those numbers at the beginning of one tour with at the end of another ;)
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Count me in. What we have now doesn't work a bit.
Yes, I'll just give skyyr one for his ability to get your attraction.
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ahhhhhh Shutup all of ya!! :devil
Don't change horses in the middle of the stream guys. Wait till the new version is out, give it 6 months, then you can start your whines again. Most of you couldn't code at mailing list, much less a game like this, nor managed a company as well (that includes me).
There are times this BBS is worse than 200 sheessss. :bhead
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ahhhhhh Shutup all of ya!! :devil
Don't change horses in the middle of the stream guys. Wait till the new version is out, give it 6 months, then you can start your whines again. Most of you couldn't code at mailing list, much less a game like this, nor managed a company as well (that includes me).
There are times this BBS is worse than 200 sheessss. :bhead
The only thing you said that makes sense is to wait and see what happens after the update.
I don't need to be able to code to see the population has been dropping. I don't need to code to see that something has to be done about that.
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The only thing you said that makes sense is to wait and see what happens after the update.
I don't need to be able to code to see the population has been dropping. I don't need to code to see that something has to be done about that.
Sorry FBKampfer , I just get tired of all the whines, and "I know better" comments. If anyone is so great let them "code" their own game. If the population is declining, then I'm sure HT has noticed and this could be the reason, or at least one of the reasons, for the update. If I remember correctly didn't he say in one of the releases that they started this upgrade in 2013?
You have probably been playing this game longer than I, but I love it just the way it is, and I'm sure the upgrade is going to be even better. Want to change the game play? Do a custom arena, see how many people move over, at least you might be able to prove your point, or not.
Nothing personal to anyone.
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Yes, I'll just give skyyr one for his ability to get your attraction.
Or would that be "attention"?
Speaking of "attraction"... Why are you stalking me like a lovesick puppy on these boards? It is creepy.
In any event, this is Caldera's thread not Skyyr's. I have been an advocate of a two-sided arena for a long time now and the title caught my "attraction". :rofl
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Sorry FBKampfer , I just get tired of all the whines, and "I know better" comments. If anyone is so great let them "code" their own game. If the population is declining, then I'm sure HT has noticed and this could be the reason, or at least one of the reasons, for the update. If I remember correctly didn't he say in one of the releases that they started this upgrade in 2013?
You have probably been playing this game longer than I, but I love it just the way it is, and I'm sure the upgrade is going to be even better. Want to change the game play? Do a custom arena, see how many people move over, at least you might be able to prove your point, or not.
Nothing personal to anyone.
Don't worry. In a few years at this rate there won't be anyone around to whine. That should solve your whine about whines.
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Try out the 2 sided war just one day per week, for a few months. A little change of pace now and then, is a good thing.
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Try out the 2 sided war just one day per week, for a few months. A little change of pace now and then, is a good thing.
Exactly. Shake it up a little.
Throw in some other maps we don't see, too. Like the Solomons or Midway or whatever.
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Don't worry. In a few years at this rate there won't be anyone around to whine. That should solve your whine about whines.
people have been saying that since I started playing, lol.
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^^^^^^^ :rolleyes: I guess "trends" aren't on your radar. (People like you said the same thing in Warbirds. We all see how that worked out.)
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people have been saying that since I started playing, lol.
just do a search, they have been saying the same thing since day one.
semp
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just do a search, they have been saying the same thing since day one.
semp
I walked this death march before. Same trend. Same people who can't see their hand in front of their face.
Numbers don't lie in this case.
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I walked this death march before. Same trend. Same people who can't see their hand in front of their face.
Numbers don't lie in this case.
You don't even play anymore. You voted to quit. You get no more votes.
Thanks for staying so involved by yelling "The sky is falling" every time you get the chance.
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Vraciu, you not flying in MA anymore???? Why Not????
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Vraciu, you not flying in MA anymore???? Why Not????
Tired of HQ griefing. I love the game but the HQ/dar crap and huge maps has worn me out. Am on a leave of absence until further notice. Nobody misses me any way. :salute
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You don't even play anymore. You voted to quit. You get no more votes.
Thanks for staying so involved by yelling "The sky is falling" every time you get the chance.
I don't enjoy the fact I am ahead of the curve. I equally detest slogging this death march for a second time.
I think I voted rather clearly to the tune of 15 bucks a month along with many others.
When the issues get resolved I will return.
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I don't enjoy the fact I am ahead of the curve. I equally detest slogging this death march for a second time.
I think I voted rather clearly to the tune of 15 bucks a month along with many others.
When the issues get resolved I will return.
then do the rest of us a favor. please be gone as you say. we'll make sure to email you when things get resolved. or stay and stop crying the sky is falling. after being here for 8 years it gets old.
semp
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then do the rest of us a favor. please be gone as you say. we'll make sure to email you when things get resolved. or stay and stop crying the sky is falling. after being here for 8 years it gets old.
semp
:rofl :aok
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so let me ask this? if we turned the AVA into a 2 sided war with all planes enabled.... would people use it?
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Nope. The draw is the MAIN arena, always has been always will be. If they closed the main arena for a week people would move to were "the rest of the players are" whether that is AvA or Mid-war at that point only the execution of the test would tell.
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so let me ask this? if we turned the AVA into a 2 sided war with all planes enabled.... would people use it?
There would only be a chance when also all the icon settings would be just like in the MA... and the LW MA would be closed for a week or two... 'cause numbers draw numbers.
Only in this case there would be a slight chance...
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so let me ask this? if we turned the AVA into a 2 sided war with all planes enabled.... would people use it?
If you also include standard icon range, ENY, perked planes and 1 hour side switching?
Yes, I would like to try that out. :cheers:
Try it out one day per week in the AVA and see what happens.
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Nope. The draw is the MAIN arena, always has been always will be. If they closed the main arena for a week people would move to were "the rest of the players are" whether that is AvA or Mid-war at that point only the execution of the test would tell.
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The 'quote' says it all. Why are you 'here', really? Honestly, I'm all for those who continue to post here without flying as long as it isn't 'Waaaah, here's why I don't like the game I don't play anymore! Waaaaaaah, it's all broke and stuff and whatever.'
Anything positive from you might be appreciated. Anything. Geez, you even got me agreeing with Semp.
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You are ignoring this user.
(I know what he says without reading it. Definitely a leghump of HTC for sure. No surprise there.)
You may quit stalking me any time, creepo.
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You are ignoring this user.
You may quit stalking me at any time, creepo.
You aren't ignoring someone if you are reading and replying to all their posts :rofl
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You aren't ignoring someone if you are reading and replying to all their posts :rofl
I don't read a word of his tripe. Thank goodness for the ignore feature. But he chases me all over these boards like a serial killer. A bit odd.
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I don't read a word of his tripe. Thank goodness for the ignore feature. But he chases me all over these boards like a serial killer. A bit odd.
Lol you don't read a word of what he says, yet you think he's addressing you?
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The 'quote' says it all. Why are you 'here', really? Honestly, I'm all for those who continue to post here without flying as long as it isn't 'Waaaah, here's why I don't like the game I don't play anymore! Waaaaaaah, it's all broke and stuff and whatever.'
Anything positive from you might be appreciated. Anything. Geez, you even got me agreeing with Semp.
Well ARLO - let me introduce you to the truth. Really, I am here for the fighter on fighter experience.
The reality is (it may not be positive) is that in the 'off' hours there are simply not enough people in game to generate a fight <fighter combat>. The map is too big for the numbers in game and the truth is that we can fly for 2 hours and find 4 people to fight.
So, you want me to post here without a Waaaaa? Nah, waaaaaa is warranted.
PS. The more this happens the more of us log off and never log on again. Heads up to you, the fan boys and AH..... THIS IS NOT WORKING NOW!!!! 2015 is a different beast than when AH was created. I think it is a great game but I see massive cracks in the game that means it is moving away from what the subscriber base wants. Add to that, other options in the market place are free to play then you may begin to understand why many of us have moved to other games and more of us are seriously looking at other options.
Sure, I am a dikhead, my opinion is to be disregarded and ridiculed....but, I am one of many. Today I saw the HQ go down again....60 players in game. Finding a fight became hard. Result? Log off!!!
Is that really what you want? Really? I mean sit back and think about it......really? If so, you are getting your wish, we are logging off and we are not engaging with the game.....we are looking at other options.......Is that a Waaaahhhhh or is that reality.
Take a good hard look before it bites you in the rear end and the game is done!!!
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Well truth is surely subjective. Does 'truth' require a defensive stance?
1. The DA still exists.
2. How players choose to play or not play with the toys provided has never been HT's fault (if you feel that statement is wrong then you need to provide more than 'more are logging off and never logging back on' and how the 'differences in the game design' are truly at fault and not just perceived by you to be.)
3. Again, if all you can do is whine-post without making truly productive suggestions (realizing that many of those suggestions may be things the players can do and really doesn't involve a 'broken game') then of course you aren't going to be taken seriously by players who don't share in a personality of self-persecution.
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Lol you don't read a word of what he says, yet you think he's addressing you?
Why would he reply behind every post of mine (spanning multiple threads) in a span of minutes only to address someone else? I will go with the percentages there. Nice try.
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Well ARLO - let me introduce you to the truth. Really, I am here for the fighter on fighter experience.
The reality is (it may not be positive) is that in the 'off' hours there are simply not enough people in game to generate a fight <fighter combat>. The map is too big for the numbers in game and the truth is that we can fly for 2 hours and find 4 people to fight.
So, you want me to post here without a Waaaaa? Nah, waaaaaa is warranted.
PS. The more this happens the more of us log off and never log on again. Heads up to you, the fan boys and AH..... THIS IS NOT WORKING NOW!!!! 2015 is a different beast than when AH was created. I think it is a great game but I see massive cracks in the game that means it is moving away from what the subscriber base wants. Add to that, other options in the market place are free to play then you may begin to understand why many of us have moved to other games and more of us are seriously looking at other options.
Sure, I am a dikhead, my opinion is to be disregarded and ridiculed....but, I am one of many. Today I saw the HQ go down again....60 players in game. Finding a fight became hard. Result? Log off!!!
Is that really what you want? Really? I mean sit back and think about it......really? If so, you are getting your wish, we are logging off and we are not engaging with the game.....we are looking at other options.......Is that a Waaaahhhhh or is that reality.
Take a good hard look before it bites you in the rear end and the game is done!!!
Well said, Fess. But you are debating an ostrich in regard to A---. Some people will never get it.
Major props to you and what you wrote. Absolutely spot on. :salute
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Why would he reply behind every post of mine (spanning multiple threads) in a span of minutes only to address someone else? I will go with the percentages there. Nice try.
It's not a 'try.' It's been recognized that to you 'ignore' is posting the equivalent of 'I'm ignoring you' over and over. That's not really 'ignore' at all. Either converse or don't. That doesn't mean others gave up on commenting on your posts. Hell, even if you beat the odds and posted something worthwhile then someone you're 'ignoring' might say so. :aok
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Let me guess. He is NOT talking about me.
I will take stalkers for fifty, Alex.
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Well truth is surely subjective. Does 'truth' require a defensive stance?
1. The DA still exists.
2. How players choose to play or not play with the toys provided has never been HT's fault (if you feel that statement is wrong then you need to provide more than 'more are logging off and never logging back on' and how the 'differences in the game design' are truly at fault and not just perceived by you to be.)
Allow me a general word on this matter.
Well apart from the fact that I'm here for battles, not duels.... Things don't work like this, unfortunately.
I can control only my actions, and when the DA is empty (which it always is during off hours) it wont help when I go there. The other 10-30 active players won't follow me. Been there, done that in different constellations over the years in AH.
Any 'solution' that doesn't accept the realities of human nature and just ask for a major change of behaviour of the population as a whole does not work.
That's what you got gameplay mechanisms and rules for (just like ENY, perks, or killshooter). "We" can't to the work of the game designer.
As far as actual proposals go:
- Change the HQ (has been commented on by HT in another thread)
- Take the large maps out of rotation until the numbers allow for them again
(They had been introduced at a much higher population which was very much increasing at those times. And remember how they were taken out of the game after the big arena split, only to be returned for Titanic Tuesdays exclusively?)
- Reduce the sideswitch time limit. Doesn't have to be as low as one hour, even something like four might help.
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Let md guess. He is NOT talking about me.
I will take stalkers for fifty, Alex.
I'm 'stalking' you about as much as Gibbs 'stalks' Dinozzo.
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/c0b45739d901b2cc8d3e9865ac319231/tumblr_mn8n37kvoe1srkbtqo1_500.gif)
(Meaning, you're in my space and being an arse. That doesn't make you special as much as it makes you 'special.')
:lol
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Allow me a general word on this matter.
Well apart from the fact that I'm here for battles, not duels.... Things don't work like this, unfortunately.
I can control only my actions, and when the DA is empty (which it always is during off hours) it wont help when I go there. The other 10-30 active players won't follow me. Been there, done that in different constellations over the years in AH.
Any 'solution' that doesn't accept the realities of human nature and just ask for a major change of behaviour of the population as a whole does not work.
That's what you got gameplay mechanisms and rules for (just like ENY, perks, or killshooter). "We" can't to the work of the game designer.
As far as actual proposals go:
- Change the HQ (has been commented on by HT in another thread)
- Take the large maps out of rotation until the numbers allow for them again
(They had been introduced at a much higher population which was very much increasing at those times. And remember how they were taken out of the game after the big arena split, only to be returned for Titanic Tuesdays exclusively?)
- Reduce the sideswitch time limit. Doesn't have to be as low as one hour, even something like four might help.
Snailster ... every change (of that nature) made has been at the 'request' of players. I remember players becoming rather petulant about the graphics (a long and difficult change to the game now painstakingly in the works). Now it's everything but? There was a time when plenty of players managed to have fun with every one of the changes you recommend not being needed. I'm not convinced they are needed now. Having said that, when players REFUSE to have fun in a game that's been fun for years and the reasons they give for not having fun entail the way the game was designed (and has been, for years) - how can I NOT come to the conclusion that it's the players who've chanced and not the game?
Low numbers makes the game not fun.
Obvious answer - higher numbers.
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There was a time when plenty of players managed to have fun with every one of the changes you recommend not being needed. I'm not convinced they are needed now.
"Plenty of players" is the key phrase. We don't have plenty of players anymore, but we still have some gameplay mechanics in place that were introduced for exactly that: Plenty of players.
Most notably large maps. They had been put in with hundreds of players in mind.
Even at Euro primetime we are now lucky to cross 100 players at time, with absolute daytime lows going down to 20-30 instead of 80-100. The conditions are just different.
And while wishing (and hoping) for higher numbers in the future is fine, the situation that has to be coped with is happening now.
And sitting on a huge map for a week, looking at maybe a single enemy dot here & there, with maybe one(!) battle ont he whole map (unfortunately 'over there')... that's a harsh reality many of us find harder to accept every day.
(For the record, I have noticed Euro prime numbers taking another hit in the past few weeks, but I have to wait until tour's end before I can say it's another local or a more global effect)
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I have a great deal of respect for you, Lusche. And I enjoy reading your posts and think you provide a mature and positive aspect to any conversation. Is it possible that HTC, working valiantly on AHIII (with fewer resources than many in the community realize) is going to devote all new changes to the new version (with there being a chance that the graphics that so many asked for at one time will increase numbers)? With those new numbers, shouldn't the mechanics that are in place be just as adequate as before?
I wouldn't demand my car be fitted with snow tires because I'm driving through Vermont on my way to a paint shop in New Mexico. (Yes, that's the sillt kind of correlations I've had to deal with for years on this forum ;)).
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I have a great deal of respect for you, Lusche. And I enjoy reading your posts and think you provide a mature and positive aspect to any conversation. Is it possible that HTC, working valiantly on AHIII (with fewer resources than many in the community realize) is going to devote all new changes to the new version (with there being a chance that the graphics that so many asked for at one time will increase numbers)? With those new numbers, shouldn't the mechanics that are in place be just as adequate as before?
Well, some adjustments don't require a great deal of time, for example taking out the large maps (a lot of other changes I have seen asked for do, like for example proposals that require modifying the maps).
Second, I have to admit that I'm growing impatient. I'm waiting for this new version for 1.5 years now, since they messed up (yes, I mean it exactly this way ;)) the strats.
Ever since this time the problems are getting larger and the new version is still a long way out (being an almost herculean task with the limited manpower that's left at HTC).
I'm afraid that the issues resulting from low numbers and large maps/HQ/time will may further contribute to a lot of palyers not logging in during non-primetime anymore. I'm very much on the verge of cancelling my account for good (not a "threat", I'm not that naive, just a clarification), with some the main reasons why I'm still here being rather pitiful and embarrassing :noid
And third, I'm not that optimistic about a magic and substantial enduring increase in numbers by the new version at all - but that's a different topic (and one full of crystal balls to boot ;))
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Well truth is surely subjective. Does 'truth' require a defensive stance?
1. The DA still exists.
The old "go to the DA" answer. Well, sorry, DA is a different animal, different rules, different actions, pretty much a different game. It's not the game I'm here to play.
2. How players choose to play or not play with the toys provided has never been HT's fault (if you feel that statement is wrong then you need to provide more than 'more are logging off and never logging back on' and how the 'differences in the game design' are truly at fault and not just perceived by you to be.)
Which is the biggest issue at the moment. Players are choosing to grief other players for no other reason than to piss them off and log out. If there were 500 players in the arena this wouldn't be happening as the coverage of the play area would be sufficient to spot more and more of them or just plain occupy those that are looking for something to do to irritate others.
3. Again, if all you can do is whine-post without making truly productive suggestions (realizing that many of those suggestions may be things the players can do and really doesn't involve a 'broken game') then of course you aren't going to be taken seriously by players who don't share in a personality of self-persecution.
The suggestions are all in HTC's court. As the few players we have left can't force/govern those few that only wish to grief other play, it's up to HTC to make the changes that will limit their ability to grief whole teams. HTC is busy making sweeping changes to the graphics model..... which is why you don't hear people whine about the graphics btw, they know it's coming. There may be fixes for the HQ issue as well as tweaks in game play mechanics in the new version but HTC is, as always, very tight with their information about releases. On top of that is the timing. There are these issues now causing players to leave.... we don't need HTC info, you can see it for your self in the number of players in the arenas. If the new version isn't coming out for another 6 months how many will be here to see it? Will there be enough to help regenerate population?
There is a number that is needed to generate good game play..... ask the Euro players, they see it much more often than the US players. Even so, I sit here wondering if I should bother signing in until later tonight. I know we have the Fester map up and the numbers (109 players total) were crappy a few hours ago for such a big map and a few rooks were planning to hit HQ again just so they can kill goons when they resupply. :rolleyes:
HTC knows there plan. They know about when they may be releasing the new version. If it isn't soon they should seriously consider making a few changes now to try and help keep the players they have UNTIL the release does come out. Getting rid of the large maps for now I'm sure is an easy thing to do and will help concentrate the fights on ALL times of the day. Hitech said that making changes for HQ is harder than most think, fine but is there another way? Maybe turning off the HQ side of the strat system all together? It solves an issue right now, and can be tweaked/adjusted and added back in with the new version.
Players don't complain about the graphics as much because they know a change is coming. If HTC makes other changes to solve or hold off other major issue that players are complaining about it will show the players that something is being done and again cut back on the whines/complaints and maybe refocus players on to finding the fun in the game again instead of looking for another game that is fun.
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Well said, Lusche and Fugitive.
The game/management/ownership needs to respond to the issues raised or it will continue losing players, which is something nobody wants.
I ran out of patience with the dar griefing. It is a royal pita.
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which is something nobody wants.
I'll take irony for 400, Alex.
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If changing the HQ settings can be done one map at a time by hand. Can the back end be effected by a script rather than needing Skuzzy to open a GUI and change numbers with each map change? We automate everything else in the Back End computing industry to keep fingers out of admin GUIs and let log events notify us if it goes wrong.
No administrator likes being tied down to an unspecified reoccurring event. That in effect is him enslaved sticking his finger in a hole to stop a reoccurring flood when he cannot predict it for a system promised to be up 24x7x365. So personally, I don't want anyone's life screwed by that kind of nonsense. That is so 1990's job security BS for 20 sumptin Jr. admins.
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Well truth is surely subjective. Does 'truth' require a defensive stance?
1. The DA still exists.
2. How players choose to play or not play with the toys provided has never been HT's fault (if you feel that statement is wrong then you need to provide more than 'more are logging off and never logging back on' and how the 'differences in the game design' are truly at fault and not just perceived by you to be.)
3. Again, if all you can do is whine-post without making truly productive suggestions (realizing that many of those suggestions may be things the players can do and really doesn't involve a 'broken game') then of course you aren't going to be taken seriously by players who don't share in a personality of self-persecution.
1. True it exists. There is no one in it but you are correct, it is there.
2. Agreed it is not HTCs fault. It is however within the power of HTC to make changes to discourage behaviours or play styles that hurt the larger community.
3. I think you are fully aware that there are many threads that are filled with productive suggestions. I have not seen much come from those threads. I reserve the right to whine now and again and the fact that you, or others, may not take me seriously does not mean the issue I am whining about does not exist.
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3 letters AvA :cheers: Lets populate that someB some time! like i dunno one day a week were everyone crowds in the AvA!!!!!! the terrains and fields are awesome theres rolling plane sets its like a mini FSO with out orders and 798437459834590823670 lives!!!
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Monday night, May 18, 2015, in the AVA, we're doing "sheep in the wolfs den". B17s and B24's with escorts vs 109's and 190's. both sides airspawn.
only 2 sides so you'll have to pick one side or the other. you'll be able to readily switch if you like.
2 hour 2 sided "war"..... check it out: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,372207.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,372207.0.html)
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Yay. :cheers:
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A few years back Waystin was an AvA CM. On Thursday nights he would guarantee a force of piggies flying on the side with the CRAP RIDES. I would show up because Waystin asked me to. POTW is very loyal to requests from Waystin.
There would be maybe an hour with numbers on both sides along with everyone playing nice. Even with being in a crap ride against superior rides, piggies being vets, made the other side earn each kill the hard way. Eventually HOing, gang banging, and waiting over the field for easy picks would take over. It stopped being worth the trouble for that Thursday night when MA S.O.P. took over, along with most people flying the none crap rides for easy kills.
The obvious things about those Thursdays was that players just dropping in for a look almost always flew the good ride side for the easy kills. Or everybody else migrated there eventually. And just as often the only extra players on the crap ride side were veteran players who like that challenge, which was few if any. Or other CM's to raise the crap ride sides numbers slightly. 12 years ago when the AvA was the CT, this was how that arena operated, and every year right up to 2015 today. The majority of AH players do not want to loose by flying a crap ride if they have a choice not to.
Before anyone becomes stupid and says Hitech has to impose side balancing from the login. Have a conversation with him specifically to why he chose not to all of these years. If he will not have that conversation, then imposed side balancing is off the table for this discussion.
So maybe two sides with all the rides available like the three side MA now might work if Hitech has evolved his opinion about such things. But, two sides with country specific rides only, and no function to force you to the low numbers side at login and keep you there for the session. Aces High will turn into a kiddy weeni bopper game with everyone flying on the good ride side.
And a forced choice model at login, there are about a dozen who will be the last players in the game wondering what went wrong with their idea. These brain storming posts are open letters to Hitech trying to show him how smart and evolved you are about this subject because he may be too close to it after all of these years. The double edged sword, you are also telling him how dumb you think he is because the his problems are so obvious to yourselves.
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what about a 2 sided arena, with each side getting their respective planes? how about us/England/CA vs Germany/Italy? and all planes( for those countries) are available?
we could actually test this out in the AVA.
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I would at least keep all the planes Euro theater (says the Corsair squad member) ... for immersion sake. :)
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planning on it!
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you wanted a 2sided war, you got one. check out the ava this week. mid-late war setup European theater. lets see how many actually utilize it.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,372721.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,372721.0.html)