Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: MOSQ on December 06, 2004, 07:38:51 PM
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Yesterday I updated to the latest Omega ATI drivers. (They just came out 12-3).
They work great, and the biggest improvement is I can run animated water in AHII with nil frame rate effect. I have all graphic detail and range settings at max.
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Agreed-Tested it last night and no framerate hit.
Animated water is looking a lot better-still not quiet right. think I will still leave it off for now.
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I installed them last night.
My desktop FP is 120Hz. My game FP is 120max - 59min. But with and interesting issue. I set aniostropic filtering to 16x max from application aware. Now I occasionally get FP spikes up to 220-260. But most of the time it holds 120-59.
Will those spikes cause me any game issues?
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Ansiotropic filtering is useless in AHII. That comes from Skuzzy. It causes nothing but problems, particularly in the text box and icon fonts.
You must not have V-Sync on or you wouldn't get those frame rates. There have been reports of rubber bullets if you shoot without V-Sync on.
What it comes down to is frame rates faster than your monitor's refresh rate are meaningless.
My monitor's refresh rate is 85HZ, but I run AHII with the 60 fps max box checked. Personally I can't see any difference once the frame rate gets over 35.
From all the posts I've seen, including several from Skuzzy, it is highly reccommended you have V-Sync ON.
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Well in the past i would have agreed with Skuzzy re the fonts etc with AF on Radeons.
However i started using AF with my radeons probably a year ago and the quality is now MUCH better with it on.
Text buffer and Icon text is pin sharp, a long time ago it used to be horrible but not anymore for me.
And that applies to my old 9800 Pro and my new X800.
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My desktop is 1024x768@120Hz with no problems. By the way my card is an ATI 9700 Pro 128.
My game before I installed the new Omega drives, FP was 59-120 depending on the environment and location in the game. What is another name for VSync, the Radlinker panel from Omega does not have Vsync designated. It uses nomiclature like "Ansiotropic filtering". The selctions are "Application Aware" or you can set it to a factor like 4x or 16x for always on.
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MOSQ,
Sorry found my answer. Ignor my last post. But thank you for your observation. I changed the wrong setting in the Radlinker application for my ATI card. I should have gone to the web site for the app and RTFM'd.:)
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Cavalier I have a question for you if you dont mind.
Going from a 9800pro to X800(flavor?) did you honestly see a boost in quality/performance that would warrant a reccomendation to go for it now, or wait for the 850 or later cards?
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i've tried about 3 times, with d/l's from 3 diff sites... i keep keeping an engine initialization failure: rpc server could nto be located.... then it goes on to state install was successful, but my system doesn't seem to recognize the new drivers.... even did a totla uninstall and reinstall, same message...
shrug... must be something on omega's end with that rpc server.
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Sweet. At higher altitudes the frame rate drops a bunch. Certainly an improvement though :) It's definitely flyable.
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Rooster - Dunno bout a x800, but I went from a 9800PRO to a 6800GT and it is vastly superior in quality and sharpness and speed.
Was thinking of an x800, 3 things put me off it -
1) Same cost as 6800GT
2) 6800GT has 4 extra pipes. x800 has 12, GT6800 has 16.
3) The one I got (BFG) is already overclocked by the manufacturer and has a lifetime guarentee.
Caveat - the x800 can have the extra 4 pipes unlocked to make it equal to the 6800GT but in doing so you invalidate your warranty. Once the pipes have been unlocked (BIOS flash) they can't be closed again.
Unless you are planning to unlock the pipes and overclock the x800, the 6800GT is a better deal.
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Shane, The RPC error you are getting is a problem with your machine. You need to go to "services" and make sure the 2 RPC services are started plus there are 1 or 2 more that need to be going but i for the life of me can't remember wich ones. I had the same problem but got it fixed.
Crispy
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Rooster.
Re 9800 pro to X800 in AH.
Unfortunately i cannot do a direct comparison, but i will say if you are only playing AH dont bother.
My upgrade was changing from a P4 at 3.2g with a 9800 pro to an AMD A64 3500 with an X800 pro (modded to 16 pipes and X800xt speeds.)
From changing to the A64 3500 and keeping the 9800 pro in AH fps gained about 12 fps, tested while sitting in plane on runway at large field.
When i put the X800 in there was no noticeable gain. I am not alone many others have reported the same that basically for AH you need cpu power more than video power.
Assuming you have a decent vid card which the 9800 is the main gain was the extra memory to load textures into etc.
However for other games the X800 is a major fps boost ie IL2 series.
Kev the X800 pipes can be closed again if you wish.
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214thCav - When I was looking at the x800 all the threads said flashing back to the original BIOS only restores the clockspeeds but leaves the pipes open. I for one was not willing to go flashing a brand new x800, thats why I opted for the BFG 6800GT.
Plus if I want to go playing with overclocking further than the already overclocked settings from BFG, these will go up to 6800 Ultra speeds.
The gist was unless you are willing to play with BIOS flashes and overclocking, a 6800GT made by BFG is a better investment given that the cost is identical to a x800.
I have noticed a big difference with my 6800GT than my 9800PRO.
Getting double the frame rates even with AA and AF on. Textures look crisper and the game plays more smoothly.
Maybe as has been suggested elsewhere AH2 seems to favour nVidia based cards for some reason.
Of course this could be because ATI drivers have enhancements for specific games and AH2 is obviously not on the list. Yes I know nVidia does the same so it leads to one conclusion.
On games where game specific enhancements are not available nVidia tends to do better, at least in AH2s case anyway.
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Originally posted by Crispy
Shane, The RPC error you are getting is a problem with your machine. You need to go to "services" and make sure the 2 RPC services are started plus there are 1 or 2 more that need to be going but i for the life of me can't remember wich ones. I had the same problem but got it fixed.
Crispy
i did that to no effect initially, but just now i went thru the services and re-enabled so much junk i dunno which the necessary ones were that allowed it to finally install. thx.
now to go back and re-disable all that junk...
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Shane, you do know about this site don't you? It tells which and what those services do
http://www.blackviper.com/
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noooo really? yes, i know about blkviper, but omega is mum about what services *are* required to be running when you d/l his latest.
thx anyway... something is hosed with the "successful install' since i no longer have D3D (direct 3d) functionality.
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What can i say Kev if your getting double the frame rates then you are the only one i have seen claim that for a graphic card change.
Mebbe your 9800 install was fubar.
Many people here have said the same as me that a graphic card change from a decent one to the latest gains them f/all (in AH) but in other games it gains a lot.
I doubt your the only one here with a 6800GT but i have not seen anybody else claiming double fps improvements.
Actually as we have basically the same stuff bar vid cards i would be up for a fps comparison to see if Nvidia is better or not for AH.
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
What can i say Kev if your getting double the frame rates then you are the only one i have seen claim that for a graphic card change.
Mebbe your 9800 install was fubar.
Many people here have said the same as me that a graphic card change from a decent one to the latest gains them f/all (in AH) but in other games it gains a lot.
I doubt your the only one here with a 6800GT but i have not seen anybody else claiming double fps improvements.
Actually as we have basically the same stuff bar vid cards i would be up for a fps comparison to see if Nvidia is better or not for AH.
Ther newer cards will show a big difference with high settings of AA and AF . Having these both off will show much less difference
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214thCav - As I have an unmodded 6800GT and your runnig your x800 at xt speeds, if I had an Ultra I'd say go ahead.
Most poeple don't want to play with flashing BIOSes and overclocking a brand new $400 video card.
Considering its more or less pointless as even the highest spec systems are likely to be CPU limited with anything over a 6800GT or x800.
For most people the already open 16 pipelines (standard on 6800GT) and moderately overclocked 6800GT (by manufacturer BFG) will be a better choice than the x800. If you don't mind flashing BIOSes and overclocking go for a x800, and don't forget the added cost of a better cooler for it.
As I said I did a lot of searching threads on rage3d etc and just didn't wanna start flashing a BIOS on a brand new $400 card to get it to 6800GT specs. Bearing in mind that 6800GT's will overclock if wanted to beyond Ultra speeds.
Plus the added aggro of finding the right make x800, most seemed to suggest the VIVO version was the best as it had the faster ram.
I can run same rez as my 9800PRO but with AA and AF on and still get 'on average' 2x frame rates. Never drops to the level of my 9800PRO without AA and AF.
As for the nVidia seeming to run AH2 better, a quick look through the threads will back up thats what a concensus feels. No-one knows why, just seems to be the way it is.
To be totally frank one of the main reasons I went to nVidia was because ATI's beta XP64 drivers still suck.
Not getting into an nVidia vs ATI match either. Now been on both sides of the fence, for what I wanted the 6800GT was the card for me, and I have NO complaints about its performance in AH2.
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Kev i am not interested in a match about who has the bigger dick either :)
Seriously i just thought lets see how the 6800gt stacks against what is basically an X800 xt (in AH only).
If they were close then obviously we would have to recommend the 6800gt as being the best buy for AH.
I was not intending to try and pass my card off as a standard X800 pro.
If AH really does favour Nvidias its quite possible the GT would be faster.
But its a minefield anyway agreeing on settings etc i guess.
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Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Kev i am not interested in a match about who has the bigger dick either :)
That's good, cause you'll both lose. This award belongs to me :D :D :D
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Thanks for the feedback Cav and Kev. I will wait it out for awhile I think and struggle along with the 9800pro :cool:
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Would really like to see x800xt comparision to 6800GT.
Can you two agree on setting all to the same setting and reading our fps on a large smoking crowded field when you are online?
And, about one being overclocked or not doesnt matter much, can calculate that back by looking at results for other games.
Why not compare it? you so scared one card gives 5fps less than the other?
It would really matter though for the people that want to buy a new one....
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Can give you a taste.
Sitting in the tower of a burning smoking carrier I get 100fps (fixed by vsych).
Using 1024x768x32, AA and AF on.
Animated water on.
Max detail range = 3 miles
All sliders on the end 'l' of level; not this one------>level <-------that one.
Using 1024 textures cached in main memory.
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Jeez, well uh yea i will i just gotta wait to find a smoking carrier.
Kev what level of AA and AF are you using ?
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Driver Settings-
4xAA, 2xAF
Trilinear Mipmaps
Image Quality High
Game Settings
Just realized it's not 'level' on the sliders, but whatever the word is that ends in 'l', thats where I have my detail set at on both, right on the 'l'.
Everything else as per previous post.
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Ok copying Kevs settings and btw i could not play at 1024 its horrible :)
All tests 4x AA quality
2 AF all other settings in drivers at max quality.
1024 res refresh rate is 120 and locked.
Tower of burning CV default view.
106 fps.
Any other view from tower varied between 106 and 120.
1280 res, refresh locked at 100
100 fps.
1600 res, refresh locked at 85.
85 fps including spit rolling at the time, however the cv had stopped smoking by now.
I know to be more accurate refresh needed to be unlocked but i stuck to Kevs original test.
Take it for what it is just a rough guide, same type and speed cpu and one Nvidia 6800gt v an X800xt radeon.
Either card will get you great game play.
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I guess you would expect a factory x800 to perform slightly worse due to 4 less extra pipes and lower clock speeds.
Of course at 6800GT by any other manufacturer apart form BFG will also perform slightly worse due to BFG supplying cards pre overclocked (20mz core overclock).
Goes back to-
If you don't mind flashing the BIOS on a brand new x800 and overclocking go for the x800.
If you do mind it, get the 6800GT manufactured by BFG, has the 4 extra pipes by default, and comes with a mild (20mz) core overclock from BFG and still a LIFETIME warranty.
Looks like similar performance between the 6800GT (stock) and x800 (unlocked and overclocked). As Cav said either will get you great gameplay.
Both similar price range $399, seems like decision should be based on whether you want to risk BIOS flashing a brand new nearly $400 card.
Still think Cav and I are both CPU limited, don't think the 3500 can push either card to its limits.
Works fine with 1024 textures here.
Always have vsync on due to the 'rubber bullet' syndrome. I think a test with it off would not be helpfull for the majority of players, as it appears majority have vsync on.
Cav - Do you think we need mipmaps enabled in drivers for game when it's an option in the game setup? I would have thought either/or but not both.
Think Cav and I will both agree that preloading textures into system memory works for the AMD64's only due to the low latency high transfer rates of the AMD64 on die mem controller. Will prob take a performance hit on a P4 or AMD XP system.
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Never considered the mip maps before will try it.
Btw some manufacturers are now supplying X800Pro's with full 16 pipes enabled. (At least in the UK)