what defines a HORDE????...5,10,12,15,20,45,62,players..
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff169/banshee7_2007/ahss41.jpg)
If you are one of those red dots, (not YOU, in particular) you are contributing to poor gameplay---surround yourself with a horde, roll over those who didn't think to bring their own personal 'Atilla-the Hun' horde, land kills, NEVER face a risk of getting shot down, then think you have done something, and start to believe from the results you are actually a talented individual, and THIS is how the game must be played to be successful :furious
Has nothing to do with how many players, it has to do with the ratios. If it's 20 on 20 but there are actual dogfights going on, then it's just a good fight. However if it's 20 on 4, it's clearly a massive horde.
People that are way to afraid to push the limits because they are afraid to lose that cartoon life are a big cause to bad gameplay.
People that are way to afraid to push the limits because they are afraid to lose that cartoon life are a big cause to bad gameplay.yeah, leave my cartoon plane alone, and stop shooting at me.
Well,as I posted above about the Vbase take..Whos fault is it in that case?? was it the MISSION planners fault for planning on good defense,or was it the defending countrys fault for not being aware of the possibility of another side wanting that base at all costs??The mission planners planned on whording an empty base, and thats what they found--3-4 flaks might have upped, but they would have fallen under the onslaught. Only a dedicated large squad of like-minded whordlings sitting in the tower, dutifully watching country-dar, could have prevented said onslaught. Coordinated response in the space of 2-3 minutes from various chess-piece members simply isn't likely. Were I a mission planner, and had that many guys at my beckon-call, I would have picked a base that actually had PEOPLE, no reason to roll an empty one, unless ya just don't want fights, period
Well,as I posted above about the Vbase take..Whos fault is it in that case?? was it the MISSION planners fault for planning on good defense,or was it the defending countrys fault for not being aware of the possibility of another side wanting that base at all costs??
look at that screen again.. the vh's are already dead! and the main horde wasnt even there yet!someones gotta lead the sheep. :t
yea right they were lookin for a good defense.. :rolleyes:
i think the fact that huge groups of ppl want a BASE at all costs is strange...
I can understand your views that this can be very subjective, so I will just throw out my $.02
Good player: One that has great experience in this game and can be put in almost any situation and come out victorious because of his knowledge of not only what he is flying, but he/she understands the dynamics of what that other person is flying. One must note that in order to achieve this status, that its a very slow and rigorous process and doesn't happen overnight. ( People don't become guitar legends in 2 months or even 2 years of playing). The only way to learn is to learn through making mistakes and learning how NOT to make them the next time.
Poor player: Player that wants to get to point A --->Point B under any cost. They are people that want to achieve instant gratification no matter what it is. They will HO you, Ram you, Gang you, suicide their cartoon ride at any cost to achieve some sort of victory. They are generally the people that are too proud or too lazy to make the mistakes and learn from them. (As Fugitive was trying to state).
These guys that are notorious for hopping the map going NOE with a horde (Horde example: if you fight more green guys for targets than red guys, your in a horde) are usually met with negativity in here because 99% of everyone in here have been there, done that. Pure and simple, base hoping NOE style and you are relying more on luck than skill. ( you know where the town is, you know the only thing that is gonna fight back is the auto ack and its the same routine...over and over and over).
Fantastic topic Falcon, I’m going to try and voice my opinion here. :aok
What’s a horde?
A flight with more A/C then necessary to overcome an objective.
Game play going down hill?
Well I would agree that the general arena game play has gone down hill, maps are two big since the MA was split, hence the war is hardly ever won anymore. That means the “main objective is null and void”.
I spend most of my time online in the DA now, duelling the most advanced stick that I can find. My best friend Bruv and I can spend up to two hours a session duelling each other.
Who here is QUALIFIED to say that it is going downhill??
Everyone who pays their £9.99 a month has the right to voice their opinion on game play.
What makes a quality player ?
Do you mean skill wise? If so then the people who get their name in lights on the front page do poses some skill, a lot of patents and free time. However they are far from the most skilled pilots on a 1v1 bases in game! TonyJoey exempt as the kids got skills to pay the bills.
Other then that, the people who win KoTH have a right to claim greatness or held with some regard by other players.:cool:
I have just as much admirations for the people who are willing to spend their time organising fun for other people. Fuzeman is a prime example, The AH2 trainers fall into this category also.
Let me chip in my perspective
I was gone from game for 2.5 years. Reason? Technical issues and lost a bit of interest in the game.
Before I left I felt that the game play experience had gone down hill. Partially due to too much hoard vs hoard furballs and to much base take on undefended fields. I also felt that player skill had gone down and that there where soo many dweebs that just ran HO runs on the deck and couldnt perform a ACM to save their lifes.
Im back and let me say this. The game has NOT deteriorated in the last 2.5 years.
Has it gotten better? Maybe a little bit. I do find it a bit easier to find the smaller fights I like but its not a huge difference. Is player skill higher? Well mine is a bit lower so relativly speaking to my self Id say yes, but on avg I dont think so.
Has it gotten worse? Nope I cant say it has. Often when one comes back to a game after a long time one has forgotten the bad and made a plesant memory about the game which is false due to one always forgetting bad stuff much easier. Due to this the "omg this sucks" reaction almost always comes when one comes back to something after a few years. But its not like that with AH2. Its definatly not worse then I remember it.
Why do so may people experience "the game is getting worse"?
Well one reason is that they get better and better as pilots while avg Joe is still avg Joe. so when one wins more fights and the challenge goes down one experiences the opponents as worse while its actually just them selfs getting better. Less challenge leads to boredom for competitive people.
Another reason is that things that arnt evolving are deteriorating. Stagnation is regression. As I said above its neither gotten better nor worse in 2.5 years and biggest reason to this is that it hasnt changed.
In 2.5 years P39s, B26s and some GVs have been added. A terrain update has been made with changes to ack. Gameplay mechanics are exactly the same. Arena setups are exactly the same and maps are the same as well.
The biggest change in online play is the changes to the ack.
Honestly WOW what a evolution.
Biggest change overall is the offline missions but honestly that cant count since this is a mmo.
This said Im glad to be back flying and Ive missed it. But HTC really needs to evolve the game more because stagnation is the only sure way to destroy a product over time. I guess they have recognized this and that its partially due to the CT debacle.
Tex
''''What is a QUALITY player??again,the guy who gets his name in lights on the front page??I can hear you laughing at that statement..SO what makes a quality player??'''''
Most of the players here know who the quality players are and heres a clue.....They dont score high on the front page if at all.Score is NO indication of skill.
TY KAZAA for the kind reply,as well as all of you..
Kazaa,your definition of horde is close...example:10/110's 8-10 fighters,4 goons...can take a base,less can take a base..Where is the line drawn as to it being A horde?Some would say it is a horde,some would say it isnt..This mission could possibly not take a base..Is it still considered a horde??Or is it only considered a horde,if it DOES take the base???
SOme would say if they up at a base and it is 3or4 to 1 ratio..Should it be 1v1 ALL the time???2v1????
Are you saying that the MAIN objective is to WIN THE WAR/RESET THE MAP???And that it is going down-hill due to the fact that this cannot be accomplished as easily anymore on the big maps?
Opinions vary by perspective KAZAA as far as qualify,so there again it is back to the person paying the money as to how they want to have fun...
And to think that someone who runs in big missions,,ANYONE in the mission as not being average,or above average is a bit short-sighted I believe..I think the best way to compare oneself to how one is doing is by looking at ones own stats..many dont care about score,but others do care about it..
Its like you said fugitive..Its about flying with ones buddies and the comarraderie(SP) that goes along with those missions..
You have win the war types,like me,you have ACM aircraft fighting many enjoy,like me,you have GVing which many like,like me..We have it all in this game.and we only have our own conscience to deal with how we played at the end of the day..
If one is ruining your fun,or you always come in here and complain about how things are not working out in AH,then I think you are giving people too much power over you.. :salute
The problem I see from a lot of people on this board is they have a pretty big blind spot, or are just stubborn and are going to stick to the "play my way" attitude.
Falcon23, I'm not picking on you, but let me use your post, and the "point of view" I get when reading it. When you run a mission, you are "flying with your squad", to others you are part of a horde. You don't believe, nor would you ever admit that you are a horde. So when ever a post comes up about "hordes" you are automatically on the defensive. This is the "blind spot" I'm talking about. Landgrabbers, win the war types, Furballers, and GVers are all guilty of it, and will defend their position completely here on the boards. What I'm about is being open minded about things, listening to other points of view, learning from others. Some may call me a furballer, but that is the "label" they put on me, to me I'm an Aces High game player. I may enjoy flying and fighting in a fight the most, but I do other things in the game as well.
But if you decline a 1 on 1, even if your at a slight disadvantage, your not a good pilot.
If you only land kills when flying with 3 or more other pilots, your missing out on what you could be.
If you whine every time you die, look in the mirror. If you died YOU made a mistake, someplace. Accept it.
Learn from it, and move on.
If your pm'ing people who just killed you and asking anything other than "how did you do that, or what mistake did I make. Well chances are your part of the problem.
''''What is a QUALITY player??again,the guy who gets his name in lights on the front page??I can hear you laughing at that statement..SO what makes a quality player??'''''
Most of the players here know who the quality players are and heres a clue.....They dont score high on the front page if at all.Score is NO indication of skill.
Fantastic topic Falcon, I’m going to try and voice my opinion here. :aokNegative, Limbo won it one month and he HOs....also ran when he had C2 and I was in Pony lower then him....some people just get lucky. Bad gameplay is sprouting from people who dont wish to learn more about ACM.
What’s a horde?
A flight with more A/C then necessary to overcome an objective.
Game play going down hill?
Well I would agree that the general arena game play has gone down hill, maps are two big since the MA was split, hence the war is hardly ever won anymore. That means the “main objective is null and void”.
I spend most of my time online in the DA now, duelling the most advanced stick that I can find. My best friend Bruv and I can spend up to two hours a session duelling each other.
Who here is QUALIFIED to say that it is going downhill??
Everyone who pays their £9.99 a month has the right to voice their opinion on game play.
What makes a quality player ?
Do you mean skill wise? If so then the people who get their name in lights on the front page do poses some skill, a lot of patients and free time. However they are far from the most skilled pilots on a 1v1 bases in game! TonyJoey exempt as the kids got skills to pay the bills.
Other then that, the people who win KoTH have a right to claim greatness or held with some regard by other players.:cool:
I have just as much admirations for the people who are willing to spend their time organising fun for other people. Fuzeman is a prime example, The AH2 trainers fall into this category also.
First rule of AH, its your dime, its your time, there is no wrong plane. There is really only one wrong tactic, and thats to HO and go on the initial merge. (the only true HO IMO)
Everything else depends on situation and how you choose to play.
But if you decline a 1 on 1, even if your at a slight disadvantage, your not a good pilot.
If your really want to be a GOOD pilot, try flying with even a modicum of honor and integrety, and in other than the top 5 planes.
Only a dedicated large squad of like-minded whordlings sitting in the tower, dutifully watching country-dar, could have prevented said onslaught. Coordinated response in the space of 2-3 minutes from various chess-piece members simply isn't likely.
Hordes - To me, a horde is overwhelming force. In a war, having 4 to 1 number superiority is a good thing, but not in a combat game that is NOT life or death, but entertainment. Honestly, is it really that much fun taking 20 guys to hit a VB?
But if you decline a 1 on 1, even if your at a slight disadvantage, your not a good pilot.
If you only land kills when flying with 3 or more other pilots, your missing out on what you could be.
If you whine every time you die, look in the mirror. If you died YOU made a mistake, someplace. Accept it.
Learn from it, and move on.
If your pm'ing people who just killed you and asking anything other than "how did you do that, or what mistake did I make. Well chances are your part of the problem.
This one is so easy. A "quality" player is one who plays the game the same way you do, who is just as upset and supportive when the other guys doesn't fight or do things the way you think they should. The "quality" player agrees with you that your way is the RIGHT WAY to play, and therefore, the ONLY WAY to play. Everyone else is "mediocre", a newb and is just trashing your personal enjoyment of the game out of shear spite. Dam the arrogance of the mediocrates!
Get some tolerance and quit being such babies.
I'd agree with most everything Ghost said except for the points I quoted.
One of the major problems with Aces High is this silly "Cold Merge" concept. It is a training tool only or maybe some kinda of goofy dueling rule. Trying to make it some sort "right or wrong" issue is the root of much silliness on this board. I've been flying online for quite a long time and have seen every HO argument there possibly is.
It boils down to one simple fact.
If you cannot avoid a front quarter high aspect guns pass there is a big hole in your skill set or mindset or both. It is exceedingly simple to avoid the "HO" attempt and turn it to an angles advantage. I would never consider teaching anyone to "cold merge". It only sets them up for failure. And the end result is lots of silliness on this board. Learn to avoid the front quarter aspect shots. Learn to turn them to your advantage. I used to invite students to grab a 190 and try to kill me using the "Head on". That usually got them interested in how I managed to avoid their shots and end up offensive.
Next item. Declining 1 v 1 = not a good pilot. I guess I suck because I decline 1 v 1 opportunities all the time. From advantage, neutral, or disadvantage. For many different reasons. A few examples. Hurricanes and Zeroes. I won't even bother. In my P38 it is not exceptionally hard to win the fight. In fact, the fight is so predictable, its rather dull. I don't have the inclination to engage in yet another boom and zoom on someone who thinks yanking on the pole is the only way to fight. Conversely, I'll blow 42,000 feet of altitude to kill a pony. I enjoy the heck out of killing ponies (If I can catch them). If I see a jet I'll point my six at him, proceed to the nearest base, land, logoff and go do something else. Jets are the ultimately in buzz killers in game for me. Mind numbingly dull to fight but they can hang around out of guns range forever if they have the merest amount of skill. People have different interests. And even though mine is getting into a good fight, i really have little interest in fighting certain aircraft in certain situations. It is just boring.
And last....honor and integrity. Beside the glaringly obvious fact that this is a game let us discuss definitions.
Honor is honesty to one's own beliefs. Notice....one's own beliefs not beliefs imposed on him by others. Cultures of Honor flourish where there is no rule of law. They have faded from much of the West. Totally misapplied here. I can be completely honorable within the framework of my squadron yet break many of the "laws" imposed by the gameplay police. Honor only applies to the belief system engaged. Honor in this game applies to each little "gang" not the entire community because there is no unified belief system in game.
Integrity is consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcome. A man with integrity necessarily is honorable within the context of his belief system.
If I am a member of a criminal gang that has set forth a system of beliefs, no matter how vile it may seem to the outside world, and I hold true to that system of beliefs I have integrity within that group and consequently I have honor. To an outsider I may seem the be the complete opposite but Honor and integrity do not apply outside of my particular belief system. And this is why we have the Rule of Law and not the Rule of Honor.
That's funny. I like being a baby because it's my 15$ and you're just a "mediocre" newb for being so tolerant.your 152 is bad game play, go shoot soemone else down. :D
That's funny. I like being a baby because it's my 15$ and you're just a "mediocre" newb for being so tolerant.
Here's the game in a nutshell.
You start out knowing next to nothing, and invest months to years learning how to play. You will meet good opponents and lousy ones, and even more in between. You'll be in a 51 and frustrated why someone takes a hurri2c and complain that he only HOs you. You'll be in a Hurri2c and complain the 51 only wants to run. You'll be in abomber and get yelled at for dropping hangars, and a little while later you'll be yelling at the fighters that while they were furballing the goon died, and that you should have taken down the hangars.
You will eventually get pretty good at the game and any fight you lose its not because the other guy outflew you or you made a mistake, its because the guy who shot you did something lame.
You'll get on 200 to call out another person with the sole intent to make him look small, when in fact doing so reflects back on the original typist.
Your passion for the game becomes a sort of selfish sickness where the only thing that matters is how you maintain your ego, where everyone is there for your entertainment, and abuse.
Eventually you either wallow in that sad state of mind, or learn to say screw it and relax and enjoy the game and people in it, or quit, or die.
Here's the game in a nutshell.No one has summed it up better FiLtH.
passion for the game becomes a sort of selfish sickness where the only thing that matters is how you maintain your ego, where everyone is there for your entertainment, and abuse.
Eventually you either wallow in that sad state of mind, or learn to say screw it and relax and enjoy the game and people in it, or quit, or die.
The Jokers gave a nice example of a horde yesterday with their attack on A44 in orange. They attacked with dozens and dozens of P-51s and 4-engined bombers, closed the field entirely, did multiple lemming-goon runs on the town, and still failed to take the field.
Ultimately, they attacked with a far greater force than necessary, but failed to take the base because of a lack of tactical coordination. It was pretty funny to see such a huge force not succeed at their objective. :lol
What’s a horde?
A flight with more A/C then necessary to overcome an objective.
Honor is dictated by the community.
Uh, no. Things are what they are, outside of what the group thinks. Truth is not ascertained by opinion polls. The collective opinion of a given community may be honorable, it may be vile, but it is always irrelevant.
Falcon I only read part of the first page of this thread. In only a couple of your posts I can already see that you seem to be what Fug was refering to. If you have no clue as to right and wrong or good and bad there is no sense even worrying about it.
For every screenshot you can show of a bish mission into a field like that I can show you twice as many of both rook and knight missions. I can always tell when its happening from the 'other' LW arena because bish will have an eny and cannot change arenas because of the cap.
Uh, no. Things are what they are, outside of what the group thinks. Truth is not ascertained by opinion polls. The collective opinion of a given community may be honorable, it may be vile, but it is always irrelevant.
Until players make the effort to shed the 'Capture the Flag/Air Quake' mentality, game play will always suffer. To me, a perfect example of the root cause of the bad game play can be seen how the majority fly in the furball area of the DA, which to be honest is just a microcosm of the MA.
Define what is "necessary". Sounds like a "perfect world" term.3 to 1 ratio should be enough to take any base but 2v1 should still be very easy :salute
Honor is honesty to one's own beliefs. Notice....one's own beliefs not beliefs imposed on him by others.
Here's the game in a nutshell.Couldn't have stated it better myself FiLtH :aok
You start out knowing next to nothing, and invest months to years learning how to play. You will meet good opponents and lousy ones, and even more in between. You'll be in a 51 and frustrated why someone takes a hurri2c and complain that he only HOs you. You'll be in a Hurri2c and complain the 51 only wants to run. You'll be in abomber and get yelled at for dropping hangars, and a little while later you'll be yelling at the fighters that while they were furballing the goon died, and that you should have taken down the hangars.
You will eventually get pretty good at the game and any fight you lose its not because the other guy outflew you or you made a mistake, its because the guy who shot you did something lame.
You'll get on 200 to call out another person with the sole intent to make him look small, when in fact doing so reflects back on the original typist.
Your passion for the game becomes a sort of selfish sickness where the only thing that matters is how you maintain your ego, where everyone is there for your entertainment, and abuse.
Eventually you either wallow in that sad state of mind, or learn to say screw it and relax and enjoy the game and people in it, or quit, or die.
I dislike the furball area of the DA pond, but one thing it should not be compared to is the "capture the flag" aspect of the main arena. When people say there would not be air combat without land to grab, I point to the DA pond as a counter-example. Is it a good example of air combat? Hell no, but at least the scum-pond devotees understand that you don't need real-estate to have fun shooting stuff.
With in the game it most certainly is. The community always dictates the way most things go, honor included. In AW it was "cool" to have kill macros. The community encouraged it. In AH it is not, those displaying them are ridiculed. Again, the community decided. The same hold true with honor.
Why do most people complain about HOs? Because its lame/not honorable, it sounds like the community it trying to speak and set a standard. It's still a big topic, and will likely go on going back and forth for years to come, but its how it works.
Don't confuse honor in real life, with honor in this game. People have to learn to keep the game and real life separate. What passes for honor on the other side of this screen may mean much different things to many different people. The same as "they did it in the war" doesn't carry any weight here because this is a game, NOT real life.
In retrospect, I should have been a little more clear about the 'Capture the Flag' comparison comment. I wasn't referring to base captures but rather the game play that is prevailent in most CTF style games. If anyone has ever played Quake II CTF, TF/2 or any other CTF shooter knows what I'm talking about. Tactics and skill has taken a back seat to gamey game play in order to acheive the quickest results with as little sacrifice as possible.
ack-ack
It is either in bad taste or it is not. For instance, there are whole games full of people who smack-talk like worst gutter trash, and their communities accepts this. This does not make it right. Thankfully AHII is better than most in this regard.
Why must we make it a matter of some putative "honor" when I can sit here and give perfectly good reasons to avoid HO'ing? If you can understand why HO'ing is generally a bad idea without making it into a commandment, you will try to avoid it as a bad risk under most circumstances. But you won't have an asinine absolute hanging around your neck, like believing it would be "dishonorable" to HO a Spitfire who obligingly flies directly at your 110G. :devil
Nope, they are one in the same. If I agree to duel with you with a cold merge and HO on the merge, then I have done something dishonorable. If I meet you randomly in the MA and choose to HO you, I have not done something dishonorable, merely something stupid. I am not dishonored if I fail to follow any rules which I have not agreed to, either explicitly or implicitly by joining the game, as set by HTC. Examples of valid rules of this sort would be no hacking, cable-pulling, shade-vulching, etc.
An example of a rule which is *not* valid and which we have *not* all agreed to follow is the idea of "never disengage from a 1v1 in the MA no matter the circumstances." This is not a matter of honor, it is merely a preference of some players that they wish to inflict on other players, despite the fact that they don't buy the notion.
Anyhow, if you dislike hordes so much, then look around the map, find a horde doing it's thing, and then up the biggest, baddest, meanest horde-stopping plane you can, and go try to stop them. I find that to be great fun, actually, and it's true whether I succeed in helping to stop them or not.That's fine if you're capable of killing 5+ for everyone of your sorties. Is that what average players can expect? Would you say the arena's keeping your attention more, that it's more fun if it's over 1/2 hording, than if it had reasonably even fights on the fronts?
That's fine if you're capable of killing 5+ for everyone of your sorties. Is that what average players can expect? Would you say the arena's keeping your attention more, that it's more fun if it's over 1/2 hording, than if it had reasonably even fights on the fronts?I'm not sure I can answer that, but I will say that if you dislike a horde fight, wait a few minutes, because the gameplay is constantly changing. Whatever's going on this very minute will likely not be what's going on in 15 or 20 minutes as different mobs form, do their thing, break up, move on, get replaced by different mobs, etc.
Face it,these 2 different styles will never meet in the middle.
One of these styles has already won and doesn't need to meet in the middle.
The boobie prize
This is where I see most people have trouble with separation.
This game is one situation, one community, one set of rules, either written, or implied. Other games are different, you mention some have much worst smack talking. That community allows that to happen, where this one either by ridicule, or by the MODs doesn't. The same goes with what "honor" is expected by its peers. This community is the one we are talking about, not the WoW server, nor the ELKS down on main street, Aces High. Like I was sayinig to Dawger, he might have been a top dog at warbirds, but here he is just another dweeb working his way into the community. Sure he might show better skills quicker, but ...from his post... he will use HO's and such which are frowned on here and he will be called out for it, why, because this community has its rules. It own type of honor.
Things that get me? 1, Bomb and Bailing. 2, Lanc-stuka'ing 3, PT boat up, launch, bailing 30X in a row 4, Stick stirring. 5, Endless teeny babble on range "I like the AH kids but c'mon", 6, The General act on range, "to include misc. whining and sniveling".
On occasion this place is like a High School girls locker room with the gossip.
Fugi:
I think we agree on quite a few things in practice.
The difference between me and thee *in theory* is that if the "community" ever decided that HO'ing and hording every chance they got, or being insulting vulgarians on 200, etc, was the correct game-play, you would purportedly have to agree that this is the quite right/honorable/"double-plus good" way to play. After all, the "community" has spoken. (As I type this, I realize that the masses *have* spoken on these matters, and neither you nor me likes much of what they have to say. So much for communitarianism, aye Fugi?)
:rofl
BNZ was dead on in his post.
What I find most common in these threads is its based upon the few people and the few in the community that think they have some credit or carry some merit in the game. Total BS.
Your post above as an example: You even insult a new player by calling him a dweeb.
Is that the community rule and honor you speak of that we all follow to treat newcomers like that? Hardly. That community that thinks it thrives by conducting itself that way I will have no part of and therefore carry no weight with me.
If you haven't learned by now that your sole purpose in life no matter in this game or in real life is not to MAKE friends, but to CHOOSE friends. If this community ever wants to make any improvement you have to treat people or the community by the means you would want to be treated. Period.
I have come to the conclusion that their is no "GOOD" or "BAD" gameplay..one mans "GOOD" gameplay is anothers "BAD" gameplay.
The game is whatever one wants to make it..I dont think this will ever change..There will always be people complaining about one thing or another.because they got shot down,a base got taken,And the complaint about HOW it happened.."I GOT HO'ED","HE WAS SPAWN CAMPING","YOUR BUDDIES HELPED YOU"etc..etc...
As far as defining bad game-play or even good game-play,opinions vary to the point it will never be "SET" in stone,it is all in the mind of the one playing the game. :salute
It takes all kinds and we have all kinds in this game.What kind are you?
Many enjoy the historical aspect of the game. They want to fly the planes in an accurate manner.
I've seen it back when there was an unwriten code, and the majority of people who played, played the game as it was intended... as a combat simulation.
I'll show anyone respect until they prove they don't deserve it. I don't suffer fools gladly, nor do I put up with stupidity. Again, the purpose of this game has nothing to do with real life other than as an entertainment value.
Courtly 1v1 duels from a co-alt cold merge where interference from other pilots is frowned on and a crippled bird is spared out of a sense of honor are neither the "accurate manner" in which the real-life planes were flown nor a simulation of aerial combat as it has ever been conducted.
If you feel you must tell everyone else how they ought to play the game and insult everyone who disagrees, I suppose it's your right to do so, but don't delude yourself that it has anything to do with history.
And after reading hundreds of posts on this subject I still have yet to see a satisfactory explanation as to how another player playing in a style you disapprove of constitutes not "letting you play the game". The maps are big enough for anyone to easily avoid the "horde" if they want to. If all the "horde" players left the game tomorrow your gaming experience wouldn't be appreciably different unless you currently CHOOSE to fly with or take on the horde. All you're really doing is whining that other people don't want to do what you tell them. :cry
That's not to say there is no bad game-play or poor sportsmanship, of course there is. But having different goals and playing styles than what you would prefer isn't it.
Without getting too far off topic.
I too will also respect anyone until they prove otherwise.
However, IMO the purpose of this game is not to be human, but it has as much to do with real life as the entertainment value, you are dealing with the human factor each time you play this game, everyones interaction as well as your opponents dictate the outcome of your entertainment, everyones true colors shine in their response to what you see in the game, players can be ignorant, arrogant, abusive, along with honorable, sincere, apologetic, and many true facets of what makes us human.
You cant find that in a game where you compete against just the computer where there is no interaction, sometimes its a good thing, sometimes its a bad thing.
The internet has emboldened a generation of people that feel they don't have to behave in some sense of normalcy or respect since they get the "I'm a thousand miles from nowhere" syndrome and nobody can touch them. That has come to haunt a few.
For the most part I know there are some good people (notice I didn't say players) in this game, I try to surround myself with people that I enjoy to be around to help make my time in game more enjoyable, negativity is not an option.
Time to eat, got to go.... :salute
Are the guys you fly with the kind of guy that goes for the HO every pass?
Do you guys run NOE after NOE in a big group of 110"s?
Do you guys run around doing the "lame" things that most people consider poor game play?
Thats the question people have to ask themselves, and .....heres the biggy... answer themselves HONESTLY.
I don't rob.... what kind are you?I am the kind of player that enjoys just about everything the game has to offer and I try not to be harshly critical of other players styles and preferences. Beyond that, anything goes, and frequently does.
Again confusing the "game" with "real life" In a game, whats wrong with that type of honor. Saluting a foe that has fought well and letting them limp home.
So basically what your saying is that in side this little "world/community" that HTC has made there are people with a certain amount of "honor" and that you prefer to hang out those that you like.
Again confusing the "game" with "real life"
Nothing's wrong with it, and you're the one who claimed it was a "combat simulation". Good sportsmanship is a fine thing in a game, but it has nothing to do with combat.
We've been through this in other threads, and I don't think "honor" is the correct phrase for what we're talking about, it's sportsmanship and manners. Those are fine things, but failure to observe them is not a violation of honor. HOing everything in sight and running back to base may be the result of ignorance, immaturity, or lack of appreciation of the finer points of the game, but it doesn't indicate a lack of integrity or morals. Immoral or dishonorable behavior in this game would be hacking the program, or somehow contriving to steal HTC's services, i.e. play without paying (other than the free two weeks). I think it diminishes the notion of "honor" if you apply it to mere bad manners.
And I'm happy with the people I fly with, none of whom fit your description in my opinion. I'm glad you find the game enjoyable too. If we find different modes of play enjoyable, so what? Nothing says you have to play my way or vice versa.
I also wish everyone would stop carping on the generation thing. Every generation since Adam and Eve has complained about "kids today". Teens today aren't often brash and clueless because they're different from their parents, they're often brash and clueless because they're the same as their parents, who acted the same way when they were 15. There are plenty of young people today who are generally polite, respectful, and responsible, they just don't draw attention to themselves the way the rude and obnoxious ones do. That was also true 30 years ago when I was a teenager and it was true 3,000 years ago when the village wise men proclaimed the imminent end of civilization because young people had no respect for their elders.
Fugi,
This is a *WWII flight simulation* game. If it were verboten in all arenas to do anything except climb to 5K, engage another aircraft in a 1v1 to the finish, repeat, I don't think you would actually like it. WWII pilots used teamwork, energy, and hit-and-run tactics where appropriate. This game would be a limited bastardization if these tactics were forbidden, just as much of a bastardization as the 20v1 mentality you loathe.
So basically what your saying is that in side this little "world/community" that HTC has made there are people with a certain amount of "honor" and that you prefer to hang out those that you like. I think thats what I was talking about when I said that more people should play this game with honor. Are the guys you fly with the kind of guy that goes for the HO every pass? Do you guys run NOE after NOE in a big group of 110"s? Do you guys run around doing the "lame" things that most people consider poor game play? Thats the question people have to ask themselves, and .....heres the biggy... answer themselves HONESTLY
So basically what your saying is that in side this little "world/community" that HTC has made there are people with a certain amount of "honor" and that you prefer to hang out those that you like.
Fugitive I read this sentence several times to make sure I understood what I was reading. Sure I want to hang with the people I like. I sure don't want to hang with the people I dislike. I'm not sure what your intended meaning is. As for "honor" even this community can not come up with a real definition of what honor is in this specific game. The community itself (or at least the forum community) is split in its definition of this simple word, so as I see it honor in this community is ones owns perspective.
Do you guys run around doing the "lame" things that most people consider poor game play?
This is an assumed statement. What is considered "most people" when it concerns lame game play. We have players that are vocal in the forums, but I doubt they could be considered "most players" since I believe I read in the forums here somewhere, and I could be corrected on this, that only a small percentage of players in Aces High are registered in the forums. It goes back to the endless cycle as to what is considered lame game play. What is lame to me may not be lame to you.
Just some opinions at 2:00 am in the morning. :salute
Fred
So basically what your saying is that in side this little "world/community" that HTC has made there are people with a certain amount of "honor" and that you prefer to hang out those that you like.
Fugitive I read this sentence several times to make sure I understood what I was reading. Sure I want to hang with the people I like. I sure don't want to hang with the people I dislike. I'm not sure what your intended meaning is. As for "honor" even this community can not come up with a real definition of what honor is in this specific game. The community itself (or at least the forum community) is split in its definition of this simple word, so as I see it honor in this community is ones owns perspective.
Do you guys run around doing the "lame" things that most people consider poor game play?
This is an assumed statement. What is considered "most people" when it concerns lame game play. We have players that are vocal in the forums, but I doubt they could be considered "most players" since I believe I read in the forums here somewhere, and I could be corrected on this, that only a small percentage of players in Aces High are registered in the forums. It goes back to the endless cycle as to what is considered lame game play. What is lame to me may not be lame to you.
Just some opinions at 2:00 am in the morning. :salute
Fred
Lets word it like this, and I mean the same thing.... Would you hang out with people who dive bomb CV in Lancs? Would you hang out with people who would rather have 20+ guys in an NOE mission because they don't have the skill or confidence to fight for a base? Would you hang around people who would have no problems jumping in on a fight were 5 guys are already chasing one?
Yes it would have to be an assumed statement because a poll has never "officially" been taken. However I do base my assumption not only on the vocal minority we have here on the boards, but also what I've heard in the game. With the thousands of hours I have played this game over many years, I'm sure I could put together a pretty accurate list of what the majority of players would consider "lame" and by extension, poor game play.
I like your choice of a sig, sir. :aok
This thread made 7 pages so far? I stopped reading at page 2. Play the game how you want, it's that simple.
However, Fugi is right about one thing. The Community is no longer what it used to be. When AH2 came online after Beta, is the exact time frame of the "fracture" in game play.
Nevermind me, I know nothing, so continue pissing in each others Corn Flakes.
How correct you are. Is anything like it used to be?
By the way, I don't eat Corn Flakes, sort of partial to eggs and bacon myself.
Fred
I do not pick the people I hang out with by their skill in the game. I choose to "hang out" with them because they are people I have come to like being around, regardless of their skill.
Having played thousands of hours over 2 years, I have seen a number of the vocal minority you are referring to, including prominent names in the game, do the very things you mention above. Time after time I have seen one speak against one or another aspect of game play in this forum, and then in the following days, I observe these same players do what they so strongly preach against. Sort of a two face approach. It's hard to give creditability to these players when these actions are witnessed. If I am seeing it, then I know others are seeing it to.
As for putting together an accurate list of so called player who would consider some of the game play you state is "lame". I'm fairly sure I can film many of the players you list pulling off some of these "lame" acts.
Fugitive I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you, and in many ways, believe it or not, I agree with you. The problem is I see such a two faced approach to game play by known players that its difficult for me to lend a lot of creditability to what they say, when in the end, I see them doing the very thing they are preaching against.
:salute
Fred
I'm sure I could put together a pretty accurate list of what the majority of players would consider "lame" and by extension, poor game play.
People that are way to afraid to push the limits because they are afraid to lose that cartoon life are a big cause to bad gameplay.
It may be because some people don't like the real aspect of the distance to fly from one base to another which, may include spending 15 minutes flying a couple sectors to a fight or base and then getting shot down within 20 seconds once they arrive. Some who are more interested in instant action games may have a hard time enjoying the climb to alt, having some SA, and then going into an ACM. They may feel they have done all this work before getting to the fight and don't want it to be over so fast. Just a neutral thought.
How can you have fun when the people you are flying with are doing such lame crap? I couldn't so I'd leave.That's really lame :aok
The only thing a list of lame play really does is demonstrate that person's definition. I can not agree with some and would add others. Then the next poster will disagree with mine and add their own. As just an average player of mediocre to no skill level, and someone who rarely flies anything other than the special events anymore due to how dissatisfying flying the MAs has become for me personally, I offer these comments solely to show the disparity of our average ideas:
* HOs lame - I agree, however, it is obviously acceptable because I can guarantee that I have been HOed by every person on these boards who has complained about it or has been singled out as a good stick,
* running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame - do not see this much myself, usually only see the 40 LA7s, Spit 16s and Corsairs trying to vulch.
I'm not talking about players that are lame, I'm talking about lame game play. This is the line you missed or miss understood...
I'm saying that the majority of the players in the game would consider...
- HOs lame
- dive bombing lancs lame or any heavy bomber
- running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame
- spawn camping lame
- being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame
- suicide dive bombers lame
- bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame
- hiding captured CVs lame
I'm not talking about players that are lame, I'm talking about lame game play. This is the line you missed or miss understood...
I'm saying that the majority of the players in the game would consider...
HOs lame - sure
dive bombing lancs lame or any heavy bomber - yes, it's also a flaw in the modeling. But then, so are hyper-accurate bombsites and I use those regularly.
running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame - not really. Whatever floats your boat. I don't see how they hurt anyone. It would be boring if there was never any decent resistance.
spawn camping lame - a little, I guess, but more "boring" than "lame," and if you don't like it, just don't up where they're camped. It's only really lame if that's all you do.
being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame - definitely
suicide dive bombers lame - depends on what you mean by "suicide". Deliberately augering or bailing after your drop to avoid fighting, yes, extremely lame. Anytime you auger or bail to avoid a fight it's lame. Solo base bombing where the risk is high but you do attempt to live through it, not lame at all.
bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame - yes, but again, this is really a flaw in the game modeling that should be corrected. It's lame using it to resupply on defense too, but everyone seems to do it.
hiding captured CVs lame - not really. Assuming your side has other CVs you're willing to risk in battle, why is it lame? It's just smart game play, if you consider that taking bases is a valid game objective (but not the only objective).
I would also agree that never flying except in a big group and immediately running for home when faced with the prospect of a fight where you don't have both numbers and alt is very lame. What I disagree with is I don't think that's a result of any kind of squad missions. You find people like that skulking above and around the edges of all the huge semi-permanent furballs that seem to form on every map. You can tell you have one when a guy follows you around 5k above but never makes any move to attack you until another enemy shows up to engage you. I also don't think it's because they lack skill - some of them are newbs, but there are also people who have enough skill to win many, maybe even most of their fights, but they don't want to win many of their fights, they want to win all of them. That's not ignorance or desire for instant gratification, it's ego.
So you see, we agree on some and disagree on others. And that's okay, the game is big enough for both of us.
It may be because some people don't like the real aspect of the distance to fly from one base to another which, may include spending 15 minutes flying a couple sectors to a fight or base and then getting shot down within 20 seconds once they arrive. Some who are more interested in instant action games may have a hard time enjoying the climb to alt, having some SA, and then going into an ACM. They may feel they have done all this work before getting to the fight and don't want it to be over so fast. Just a neutral thought.
You agreed with me on everything with a couple of "possible exceptions to the rule" type things on a couple. Except for the hiding of CVs (Its a COMBAT game, use it for combat. The main objective IS combat.)
Whats happening is PLAYER A for what ever reason, has found that if he can get 10 or more guys together and hide under radar he can capture bases. In most cases he doesn't have the skills to do it any other way. So he gets a few other of like skill to join up and they start having success. Next thing you know they decide to become a squad, why not they are always together dodging trees on their missions. Then some new guys log in, and want to be part of the community. These guys are ALWAYS running missions.... its the only thing they can do. So the new guy joins up and "learns" how to run missions from MR NOE and his gang. Next thing, the squad splits, or the new guy makes his own, it doesn't matter, the only skills here are how to fly in between trees. So it continues on.
Yes there are a few game mechanics problem like dive bombing lancs, and the dry spawns, but to use Moms old saying "If Jimmy jumps off the bridge, are you going to also?" If the poor game play things that people can agree on..... like the list posted... can be taught to the community that it is a "frowned on practice" don't you think it would help people to learn more, expand the limited way they play the game?
Fugitive :salute ,**2345231211 has collided with you***. you generaly chaulk this up to the guy not knowing any better. The guys that get blasted on 200 are the ones that are pretty well known and should know better.
It does not HELP that the people who shoot down the new guy you are speaking of,RUn their mouths off on him on 200 or wherever about his HOing,LACK OF ACM,or his running,The guy has probably not been playing very long,and calling him a NOOB,and other "CHOICE" names does not in any way help what you are trying to accomplish.How often do ANY of the guys who feel the way you do,EVER take them aside and TRY to teach them something,BEFORE biting his head off about how he didnt PLAY THE GAME RIGHT..
Falcon23 :salute
shying away from combat without an absolute advantage
Ya see that all the time, and its usually NOT the new guys.
But the "old hands" call it flying to the planes strengths, or flying "smart".
Fugitive :salute ,
It does not HELP that the people who shoot down the new guy you are speaking of,RUn their mouths off on him on 200 or wherever about his HOing,LACK OF ACM,or his running,The guy has probably not been playing very long,and calling him a NOOB,and other "CHOICE" names does not in any way help what you are trying to accomplish.How often do ANY of the guys who feel the way you do,EVER take them aside and TRY to teach them something,BEFORE biting his head off about how he didnt PLAY THE GAME RIGHT..
Falcon23 :salute
I hope your not refering to me in this post. I very rarely call anyone out over the radio, and when I do it some one I know has been flying for awhile. I'll call out HOs when I get them from people who should know better. The same will go for a cherry pick. It really pisses me off when I'm fighting 2 or 3 already and another guy has to pick me.
I agree that we have some A-holes playing this game. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do about them except to ignore them. They get their jollies off by pissing people off. If you don't get pissed off at them they loose there power. They effect game play, but they are not the cause of poor game play.
If you consider picking "lame" game play Your list just got real short.
Fred
Anyone who jumps in on a 3 vs 1 is lame and is showing poor game play. Are you so hard up for a kill that you would have to do that? I guess when I write things out like that I should say that after a certain number of guys are already in on someone it then turns into a "gang". Do you read these things and think about them or do you just start typing?
If its a wingman picking me off of his wingmans tail then I deserve it for my poor SA. There is still a challenge to a 2 on 1 and in some small percentage of folks a 3 on 1, but making it 4 on 1 for any one is lame.
I actually read quite well, and I stand by my post. Your list will be very short even including what you stated in this post.
Fred
so your saying this NOT lame game play, being the 4th or 5th in on a guy?
If you consider picking "lame" game play Your list just got real short.
Fred
I actually read quite well, and I stand by my post. Your list will be very short even including what you stated in this post.
Fred
No, I'm not offering an opinion either way. Your the one that took it upon themself to be the judge of what "lame" is. It was your post and your words that I responded to. Your the one that puts words in someones mouth (in this case text), when they question one of your statements. Do you read before you type?
I made a simple statement, and I will stand by it. I have been picked by the biggest names in this game while engaged with more than two other cons. Do I get upset over it? Nope, I'm just stupid enough to up another plane and go back in for more.
Fred
OK, lets go back a bit...
I don't understand how one item mentioned (ganging, or being the 4th or more in on a target) would shorten my list of lame/poor game play? Remember we are tlaking about game play, not game PLAYERS.
Again you post, basically the same post with out trying to clarify what your saying. The post where you made this quote I had clarified that any more in on a 3 on 1 is a lame play. So still not understanding what you mean I ask you strait out if you belive the statment is true? (being the 4th guy in), you replied...
First off, if you have no opinion either way, why are you posting?
Second, I suggested a list of what I thought the majority of players would think are lame/poor game play I didn't try to put any words in your mouth, I just tried to get an idea of what you were trying to say.
Third, seeing as all of this is speculation, and opinion, you can say, and stand by anything you want. Unfortunately, your posts made no sense to me in relation to the quotes you quoted.
You right about not understanding the posts because your subject seems to change witht the wind You speak of lame game play and then include ganging. I am saying that nearly every one in this game including vets will pick if the opportunity is right, and it doesn't matter how many others are engaged.
Lastly, we are discussing poor game play in this thread. While I agree there are some lame/poor game PLAYERS noobs and vets alike, its not what we are discussing. You said "I have been picked by the biggest names in this game while engaged with more than two other cons. Do I get upset over it? Nope, I'm just stupid enough to up another plane and go back in for more." You should get mad about it, its lame game play, and we don't need it. There are plenty of people playing this game to shoot down, tho I'm sure not to many of the are easier target than someone already busy with 2 or 3.
I want to see an NOE mission with 12 110's,4 goons,and 6 nikis take a bish base..Thats a lucky NOE mission if it gets accomplished..what would make this so hard?
what would make this so hard?
.....snip
Well, I thought I was very clear, but I guess I need to spell it out a bit more. What I am and was saying is the very players you would put on your list, which I sure it would be some very prominent names, do the very things you call "lame".
.....snip
Since one goes with the other how can you exclude one?
Why should I get mad if I get picked or ganged by no matter how many. It was my choice to up or engage, and it was my SA that was bad. One other thing I don't get mad because of a game. One has to keep it in perspective that this is a game, and only a game.
Fred
I want to see an NOE mission with 12 110's,4 goons,and 6 nikis take a bish base..Thats a lucky NOE mission if it gets accomplished..
And if something was done different,say bombers at altitude,enough to take down base AND town,people would start saying something about that ruining their fun...But I bet there would not be many on the side which took the base complain,if any at all.
And no fugitive,I was not using you as an example in my last post about people berating others on 200...I respect your opinion,I just dont agree with it whole heartedly. :salute
No doubt. The town would die in 30 seconds from the 110's alone and then cap.
The niki's heavy could drop any nme GV's easy and cap.
No reason this wouldn't work.
I didnt say it wouldnt work,but it would be very difficult..Im not understanding, if what your saying is that its harder to do at a "bish" base. or any base. (looking for fish hooks in this statement somehow).
I can see bish base because they have the highest percentage of real estate grabbers and protecters. Most the time, rook/nit dont care about the real estate part of the deal so thats why you rarely see this pulled off.
??
This is where we are having our communication break down. I never mentioned naming ANY players as lame.
They most defiantly are not the same. Comparing game play, and game players is about the same as comparing apples and oranges. The only thing they have in common are that they are fruit. The same goes for game play and game players.
Game play can be changed, either by rule changes or community/peer pressure. With those changes yes some players will change, but I guaranty that there will ALWAYS be a number of lame game PLAYERS, they will never change. Their game IS to be lame, and nothing more.
You mentioned your scenario for being the 4th guy on a bogie. You shouldn't be expected to pull off, nor should you accused of "lame play" the 3rd and most especially 4th guys in on that fight should be tho. Why shouldn't you have your fight? Why should you have to be worried about some loser coming in and stealing your kill? Doesn't it piss you off after fighting with some guy for 5 minutes and finally get him low E, on the deck and about to fall to the mercy of your guns and some one comes screaming in to clear your 12 oclock.?
I don't believe that for a minute!!
On any given night, it could be ANY side goin apechit taking bases!
And on occasion, its an unstopable force.
Every side does it.
I see it ALL the time.
I believe you're mistaken.
I think they care.
I think they care alot!
I'm not sure a game can be changed by peer pressure alone. In my opinion, I would think a rules(s) change would have to go along with it.
You are correct. I have no problem admitting when I make a mistake.
I went back and saw that I misread your sentence concerning "the list". My apology to you sir.
Then again the list of lame tactics you mention that you could make of what most players would consider lame, those "most" player uses those same lame tactics on a fairly regular basis.
Can't agree here. In an interactive game such as Aces High, you can't have one without the other. I would agree with your statement in games where it's person vs computer, but not this game, or similar games to this one.
I'm not sure a game can be changed by peer pressure alone. In my opinion, I would think a rules(s) change would have to go along with it.
I get my kills stolen all the time. Do I get mad, no, not really, sometimes it can be a bit frustrating, but then again its a game, and I always try to keep that perspective. Then again, I try to steal certain squad mates kills whenever I can. :D
:salute
Fred
or better yet, how many stop and say....Oh, this is how the game should be played....frustrate and grief friendlies by constantly trying to steal their kills, and interrupt their fun for your own "name in lights" glory. I expect newbs to come in and try and steal kills, it's people who have been playing awhile, that you know are scorehoring that is repulsing.
Stealing a squad mate kill is something all together different :D However, picture a newb, been flying for a few weeks. Starting to get the hang of things, but 90% of his kills are getting stolen when ever he flys. How frustrating do you think it would be to him/her not having your experience to keep that "perspective"? How many people cancel their subscription due to the frustrations lame game play causes?
However, picture a newb, been flying for a few weeks. Starting to get the hang of things, but 90% of his kills are getting stolen when ever he flys. How frustrating do you think it would be to him/her not having your experience to keep that "perspective"? How many people cancel their subscription due to the frustrations lame game play causes?
what I see alot, because I like to drag folks for a 1 vs 1, or engage in 1 vs 1 dogfights.....is a con that looks at the dar, sees a single enemy and a single con fighting, and flies in that direction....two things a clear by this action...
1. (giving the fella the benefit of the doubt)he says, "maybe the friendly needs help?" OK, I can handle that, fair enough.
2. Now, the fella makes it there and sees the friendly with the advantage, and handling the enemy easily.....(if he still attacks...without asking the friendly if he needs help, he is exhibiting bad gameplay...IMHO), if he asked the friendly, and the friendly says, "sure go ahead and make an attempt to interrupt my fight and steal my kill"....then that is fine(I doubt that will happen, but we are giving the situation the benefit of the doubt)
3. Now, where I find bad gameplay evident, is when the 3rd, and 4th, and 5th fella fly over there....there is no excuse for it...it is milking the community, selfishly, for ...I guess score?....kills?...grief?....what could possibly be good for going to a fight where one enemy already has 2 or 3 on him...I mean what are you going to do?...get the kill?...at the expense of someone who was already there working for the kill?...grief the friendly that has spent time on the enemy, and you show up 4th man in and "steal" the kill? It just makes no sense to me....and often, I find "vets", or folks who have played a couple of years doing this....it is bad gameplay IMHO.
4. If me posting this changes even one person to re-evaluate these types of situations, and causes them to "ask" the friendly first...and honor his request, then (the time it took to type this post)...was spent wisely. :aok
I'd have to say that number would be zero from "Kill Stealing". But maybe I come from an entirely different universe. There is no such thing as kill stealing. There is no Aces High Bureau of Kill Ownership that issues the Title on each kill. And the kill doesn't belong to the guy that gets credit in the buffer. He is just the guy who got the credit.
If you are running around in circles with a bandit and someone else swoops in and blasts the bandit into next week, its your own damn fault for taking so long to arrive at a guns solution. Most new players understand this instinctively. I don't think anyone comes into the game with a sense of entitlement with regards to particular kills.
I have seen players who shoot at the wreckage just to get the credit and it doesn't bother me one bit. But 12 years online and most of them spent training folks will do that to you.
Be happy for the other guy when he gets the kill. You will get more later I'm sure. It is a sad life if you believe there is any such thing as "kill stealing" in Aces High. I can only imagine the sort of mental state of being that can justify thinking that way and I am truly saddened to know such pitiful people exist.
If you are running around in circles with a bandit and someone else swoops in and blasts the bandit into next week, its your own damn fault for taking so long to arrive at a guns solution. Most new players understand this instinctively. I don't think anyone comes into the game with a sense of entitlement with regards to particular kills.
I have seen players who shoot at the wreckage just to get the credit and it doesn't bother me one bit. But 12 years online and most of them spent training folks will do that to you.
Rooks and Nits usually though, you can go an entire weekend without seeing 1 mission planner up.
Coming from a different sim is no excuse, I can't imagine that in Warbirds or AW, or "flying polygons with guns 1.0" behavior of the sort you seem to defend was looked on any more favorably.:aok
Biggest pile of BS I ever saw. The guy "going around in circles" as you put it, with the bandit on his 12, straining for a gun solution, has put time, energy, and skill into putting the bandit in a position where a random picker can blast through and steal the kill in the first place. This is often especially the case when one b'n'z fighter forces another to engage and slow down to fight, and some picker in a b'n'z airplane will come along and "help" the friendly working the bandit by clearing his 12.
Inconceivable...the single lamest behavior in the game, and it doesn't bother you, but people who call such behavior what it is, this does bother you?
Deliberately shooting at falling wreckage to steal the kill goes beyond mere lame gameplay, I'm comfortable calling it a form of cheating.
I didnt say it wouldnt work,but it would be very difficult..
what I see alot, because I like to drag folks for a 1 vs 1, or engage in 1 vs 1 dogfights.....is a con that looks at the dar, sees a single enemy and a single con fighting, and flies in that direction....two things a clear by this action...
3. Now, where I find bad gameplay evident, is when the 3rd, and 4th, and 5th fella fly over there....there is no excuse for it...it is milking the community, selfishly, for ...I guess score?....kills?...grief?....what could possibly be good for going to a fight where one enemy already has 2 or 3 on him...I mean what are you going to do?...get the kill?...at the expense of someone who was already there working for the kill?...grief the friendly that has spent time on the enemy, and you show up 4th man in and "steal" the kill? It just makes no sense to me....and often, I find "vets", or folks who have played a couple of years doing this....it is bad gameplay IMHO.
:noid
Deliberately shooting at falling wreckage to steal the kill goes beyond mere lame gameplay, I'm comfortable calling it a form of cheating.
:aok
Hey, before you congratulate me SR, that was supposed to read "this is often the case when one fast b'n'z fighter forces another fast b'n'z fighter to engage, and some T'n'B aircraft will swoop in for the easy saddle/pick." There, that gets what I meant to say across.I know what you are saying....tis why I hate hurri's and zekes, they cant catch anything but a gangbang, and they are the worst about being 3rd, 4th, 5th man in....I often wonder what they are thinking...I mean the con by then is slow, so there is no getting away from the hurri or zeke, and I guess the fella in the hurri/zeke is saying, "Oh, let me get him for you other 4 fellas" what a waste of gameplay.
Coming from a different sim is no excuse, I can't imagine that in Warbirds or AW, or "flying polygons with guns 1.0" behavior of the sort you seem to defend was looked on any more favorably.
Biggest pile of BS I ever saw. The guy "going around in circles" as you put it, with the bandit on his 12, straining for a gun solution, has put time, energy, and skill into putting the bandit in a position where a random picker can blast through and steal the kill in the first place. This is often especially the case when one b'n'z fighter forces another to engage and slow down to fight, and some picker in a b'n'z airplane will come along and "help" the friendly working the bandit by clearing his 12.
Inconceivable...the single lamest behavior in the game, and it doesn't bother you, but people who call such behavior what it is, this does bother you?
Deliberately shooting at falling wreckage to steal the kill goes beyond mere lame gameplay, I'm comfortable calling it a form of cheating.
I should of clarified my statement about the 110 NOE...Fixed for reality.
You get defense,you are going to have a FUN time taking a base..
If someone does not up masher,your tactic would work..if you had defensive cons up,it would fail miserably.
As far as if it is a bish base,I should of typed the wording to say..Used against any OPPOSING COUNTRY...
Your right, you do come from a different universe... Warbirds :D Things are different here than they were there. I fly with Savlan and a bunch of his guys in the 475th that came over from WB. Joe's a good guy to hang out with as well as most of his crew. Flying with them I can see a big difference in the way they fly. Their point of view is different. I remember them having trouble in the AvA arena looking to fight the way they had at WB. The AvA "regulars" at the time made it miserable for them. Some quit, and some changed a bit to fit in with how things are done in AH.
Reading "The fury's" post you can see that there are other people who have a problem with kill stealing. At this point of my "flying career" :D I like to fight. Not chase some guy down, not pick someone off my wingys tail, tho I will do both, I like to be in the fight, 1 on 1, even 2 on me is fun. The culmination of a fight is dead, I loose, or I kill the other guy I win. So someone sweeping in and popping the guy I finaly get right where I want him gets me frustrated.
Of the guys just coming into the game, what do you thing is the main reason they are here? My guess would be to "kill the other guy",shoot down planes. If you steal his kill you just took the fun, and his main purpose away from him. If he can't do what he signed up for, ya think he might cancel?
I should of clarified my statement about the 110 NOE...You just nailed it Falcon.
You get defense,you are going to have a tough time taking a base..
If someone does not up masher,your tactic would work..if you had defensive cons up,it would fail miserably.
As far as if it is a bish base,I should of typed the wording to say..Used against any OPPOSING COUNTRY...
To many complex AH minds in here for meIts strictly a matter of brains on a platter with nothing better to do.
How, exactly, do you steal something that no one owns?
Skyrock throws a tantrum if you fly near any bandit he has decided is "his". Nevermind that you might actually shoot at it. He has a fit on voice if you fly near it. All in the name of "kill ownership". It is quite silly, at least as silly as the guys who shoot wreckage, and from my point of view much sillier.
The whole concept of "earning" a kill and somehow "owning " the kill is quite foreign to my way of thinking.
The constant rules temper tantrum on the boards and in the arena gets pretty old. I suspect HTC loses lots more folks to the tantrum than to the supposed "violations". I know the ONLY reason I still pay money is because of friends I made before I ever came to AH. One day the tantrums will end that too I suppose.
Skyrock is Skyrock, whatever, that doesn't mean he can't have a point.bro, I would be called a whiner a million times, for years to come, and be proud of it.....to be represented by your statement....it is true and to the fact and undeniable....it is against the spirit of all things that are good about games....working hard to compete and fighting to win...only to have "herbert milktoast" come in and Cower your kill for score? :furious
Buddy, engaging a bandit 1v1 costs time, and it costs energy. Energy that a prop plane can't replace easily. If I spend alot of my Energy and time getting on a bandit, have his rear quarter and am working him, and you come along and shoot without asking, without a real good reason, then yeah, you just stole something I bought and paid for.
You just nailed it Falcon.
12-110s, 6 niks and 4 goons and you think your gonna have a tough time taking a base. Now keep in mind that Im not getting on a high horse here, but if our squad is in "base take" mode, the job gets done with half that amount ( if were lucky to have that in our roster)
The attitude that gets me is instead of working on ones own skills to sharpen, they choose the easy route. ( 22 wont do it this mission..so lets get 50 in here to get this base). if 12-110s, 4 goons and 6 niks are a challenge to you, then make that your goal. Get yourself some good trusting people to fly with that know exactly what to do and when to do it and keep trying that tactic until you acheive your goal.
Once you tackle that, then challenge yourself further and try it with 6 110s 1 goon and 2 niks...so on and so on. Its no slap in the face here if you go down, but it helps and shows if you go down TRYING.
You guys take bases with half that amount,...6/110's 3 niks,and 2 goons???Well congrats ,and good thing you did not have any resistance..
I put 15 slots for 110's in my missions,I put 10 slots for fighters,and 4 goons,I do not see where that is horrible..I want the town down as FAST as possible,I dont want to sit there and "FONDLE" it..I want it DOWN,and so do the people who are with me,..
You want to see A 50 man mission???? that would be the one with 190a8's,when eny has gone through the roof,literally,,and is over 25..
ANd tral I never said that 12 110's missions were a challenge to me,you put words in my mouth..but I want to be sure when I launch a mission for a particular target,that it goes down the way it is supposed too..and that is that it gets captured..
See Falcon, thats the point we are trying to make and you refuse to see. 6 110's and a goon. NOE, all planes fly with the goons max speed. When you hit the dar circle 110s go full throttle and wep. 3 110 hit the town, 3 the field ack. In 3 passes most of the town is down, and ALL of the ack is down and the goon is in sight. 2 110s cover field, rest finish town, goon drops troops, base capture. The group lands a half dozen kills.
Your not seeing the point here Falcon. Your taking things as a direct attack towards you which in fact it is several people saying the same thing in order to open your eyes and try to teach you something.
You guys take bases with half that amount,...6/110's 3 niks,and 2 goons???Well congrats ,and good thing you did not have any resistance..
I put 15 slots for 110's in my missions,I put 10 slots for fighters,and 4 goons,I do not see where that is horrible..I want the town down as FAST as possible,I dont want to sit there and "FONDLE" it..I want it DOWN,and so do the people who are with me,..
You want to see A 50 man mission???? that would be the one with 190a8's,when eny has gone through the roof,literally,,and is over 25..
ANd tral I never said that 12 110's missions were a challenge to me,you put words in my mouth..but I want to be sure when I launch a mission for a particular target,that it goes down the way it is supposed too..and that is that it gets captured..
Well if that doesn't come of sounding a bit like a "Holy than thou" attitude I don't what does!
Dawger, you come in here and push your attitude, and agenda everytime you post something. You came from WB..or where ever.. and yes you were the best trainer/fighter/team player/whatever there, but your in our world now. What applied in your world doesn't necessarily apply in ours. Here we try to train the a HO is a bad thing, yes many people still take it, but most feels that it is a cheap shot and will call you out on it.
I don't know about from where you come from, but here the idea is to fight, or have combat. Turning down a 1 vs 1 means you should go fly Flightsim X because you don't want to fight, so go fly a flight sim where there is no fighting.
Honor is dictated by the community. In the US we have a certain honor, if your a gang banger, you may have a certain honor, but to the rest of society/community your unlawful scum that needs to be locked up. Same goes for the game. you may be honorable with in your squad, but the rest of the game community decide whether that is acceptable.
You came from a different neighborhood, ours works just a bit different. It doesn't matter how long you have been in flight sim communities, what matters is how long you have been in THIS flight sim community. Anything you earned in other sims is thrown out the window when you switched, just like everyone else. Here you have to start all over, like everyone else. Nobody gets respect just because.... they have to earn it just like everyone else.
fugitive for your info,that was supposed to be a fun cv killing mission.where you saw all the b-25's..theyw ere for the cv,although a backup plan was hatched after the cv was dwon to hit a base for capture..
What u guys dont see,is that I dont run missions to FAIL..It is evidnelty fun enough for people to join and take bases,or whatever needs to be done..
I dont run missions to take 3 HOURS to take a base...I dont have the time to spend that amount of time taking a base,when it could of happened quicker..I dont WANT to spend 3 hours taking a base,I spend enough time in-game without making it last any longer.<--read WIFE ACK...
And while I run majority NOE's,,There are some that are run at ALT,and they capture bases as well..
Evidently missions of ALL KINDS are fun for many people..
What I see,are you guys trying to tell me how to run missions and take bases the "FUN" way..The way I do them,that you guys are not getting is that they are FUN from my standpoint,and all who join..Do I think it makes for bad game-play? no I do not..Maybe from your perspective,but then you just cant "see" what I am saying either..
You're calling Dawger holier than thou? Dawger is pushing his agenda? :lol
I've been in this sim since 2001 and wouldn't dream of posting somthing like this...
your in our world now
I wouldn't dream of posting it if I'd been here since day one. I got news for you as long as Dawger pays his monthly
AH bill it's as much his world as it is yours. In fact we're all just renters living in HTCs house.
Lighten up, you're really not near as important as you seem to think you are. Besides you're in Hetech's world now. :aok
That's good that you enjoy the NOE smash and grab missions, Falcon. Not that much fun to be the smashee, though. My definition of a fight is that both opponents have a chance. An NOE horde that is not discovered in time is akin to a pair of 51s BnZ-ing a single turny plane. The defender cannot go on the attack without being overwhelmed.
Been on both sides of the coin also caldera..SO I know what you mean,but it is the price we pay I suppose.. :salute
What I'm saying about Dawger is he want to pass the ball with his feet! While in his world he's very good at it, it just isn't how its done in "this world". Yes its Hitechs' world, but the community shapes it with in his frame work.
Who appointed you spokesman for the entire community? How do you get to decide how things are done in this world as you put it?
I have never seen an official community rule on any type of game play. I have seen self appointed cartoon politicians complaining about how the other people
play the game in an effort to feel superior. Just fly and fight, quit worrying about what everybody else is doing.
fugitive for your info,that was supposed to be a fun cv killing mission.where you saw all the b-25's..theyw ere for the cv,although a backup plan was hatched after the cv was dwon to hit a base for capture..Why be the OP of this thread then if you dont want to care about what others think. Its not about telling you to play a certain way or that people whine that you take bases with overwhelming force. The object here is to open your mind and try things you havent tried before, or at least think about it.
What u guys dont see,is that I dont run missions to FAIL..It is evidnelty fun enough for people to join and take bases,or whatever needs to be done..
I dont run missions to take 3 HOURS to take a base...I dont have the time to spend that amount of time taking a base,when it could of happened quicker..I dont WANT to spend 3 hours taking a base,I spend enough time in-game without making it last any longer.<--read WIFE ACK...
And while I run majority NOE's,,There are some that are run at ALT,and they capture bases as well..
Evidently missions of ALL KINDS are fun for many people..
What I see,are you guys trying to tell me how to run missions and take bases the "FUN" way..The way I do them,that you guys are not getting is that they are FUN from my standpoint,and all who join..Do I think it makes for bad game-play? no I do not..Maybe from your perspective,but then you just cant "see" what I am saying either..
but your killing the fun on the other side. Trust me I can see what your saying, I've been there.There is NO WAY everyone can have "fun" (to each his/her own definition) all the time in a game as dynamic as this one is.
There is NO WAY everyone can have "fun" (to each his/her own definition) all the time in a game as dynamic as this one is.
I have discovered that there are times online in AH when I have an absolute blast, and other times when NOTHING goes my way and I just log off and go do something more worthwhile........
If these guys doing these missions are having fun then good for them. If you are NOT having fun trying to support or defeat their mission then do something else. The game is large enough to support tens of dozens of other things. If there is nothing else that interests you then go mow the lawn, or change the oil in your car......are take you partner out to eat...or do something.
But to try and manage other people in pursuit of what they want to do for their fun in order for YOU to have fun is imo, a waste of time and thought.
As far as the way AH used to be, forget it. different game.
I don't decide, the community decides.
There is NO WAY everyone can have "fun" (to each his/her own definition) all the time in a game as dynamic as this one is.
I opened this thread and have come to the conclusion that good or bad gameplay is relative to the one playing and paying...I did care,until everyone started trying to ram down my throat how my missions are bad for gameplay..I did not define what the posters were saying was bad gameplay or good gameplay..
Good game-play for me and my squad is whatever is needed to help out Bishop...That means porking,bombing,strategizing,taking bases,and helping others to do as much.It is not about ME,it is about how can we help the bishop to accomplish whatever is needed at the time to get an objective accomplished,As well as all bishop who are fighting..No sir..not whatever is needed.
Dont you do whatever is needed to get he job done on your side of the map??
No sir..not whatever is needed.
And let me give you an example. Just a while ago we upped from a feild and spotted a cv not too far off with noone taking off from it and noone manning the guns. Do we A) launch a bunch of lancs to reach 5k only to release a salvo of fury while doing a nosedive. B) get the squad together and maybe do something fun yet challenging by upping stukas to sink it. ( I choose B)
The job gets done, its fun and even though half the squad probably dies in the auto ack before they get to release, we took a harder route.
No sir..not whatever is needed.
And let me give you an example. Just a while ago we upped from a feild and spotted a cv not too far off with noone taking off from it and noone manning the guns. Do we A) launch a bunch of lancs to reach 5k only to release a salvo of fury while doing a nosedive. B) get the squad together and maybe do something fun yet challenging by upping stukas to sink it. ( I choose B)
The job gets done, its fun and even though half the squad probably dies in the auto ack before they get to release, we took a harder route.
This is an easy one,,, B :)which is my point exactly :aok. Others around you also pick up on that sort of stuff.
Up 2 b-25h's and take back a cv??? give me a break,really?? is that your SOP when it comes to killing a cv,do you get on country and tell everyone NO MORE THAN 2 B-25's are to KILL THAT CV??? NO,you dont...we were looking to get our cv back.By any means..
B-25h's...only using the HE and 110's...the ship was almost 2 sectors away...would of taken too long flying back and forth with only 2 b25's.. And it was NOT being used,it was being hidden...does hiding the CV come under the definition of bad gameplay,or does it fall under..WHATEVER is needed for ones country..Does 10 B25s come home faster than 2?
And that is your right as the opposing country,to do with the cv as you wish..Although many would disagree with you.It is a tactic which is used in-game,( to hide the opposing countrys cv)..But I did not want to spend ,and neither did the bish who were in the mission,want to spend alot of time flying back and forth,when we could just fly over and take it in much less time than you speak of by using only 2 planes,and use it ourselves,plus with that many,we can usually take down ALL the other ships with it,and along with getting the cv back,people learn how to use a plane they may not of flown before,and get a greater appreciation for it..
What u guys dont see,is that I dont run missions to FAIL..
does hiding the CV come under the definition of bad gameplay,or does it fall under..WHATEVER is needed for ones country..
B-25h's...only using the HE and 110's...the ship was almost 2 sectors away...would of taken too long flying back and forth with only 2 b25's.. And it was NOT being used,it was being hidden...does hiding the CV come under the definition of bad gameplay,or does it fall under..WHATEVER is needed for ones country..
AHHH yes,but it still got the job done..And that was my point..Its not getting to point B..its how you get there. The "by all means" attititude gives a bad example to you and also to any new guy that comes in. Just because you pay your 15$ a month doesnt warrant yourself feeling free to do whatever you wanted.
The CV in question I had turned to run west to help at 61, someone took it to hide it again, so this time I took control and turned it again. While my rank isn't always enough to keep it, had some one took it again I would have broadcast the location to the Bishops every 5 minutes until it was sunk, or used. CV are mobile fields to be used to create COMBAT. I use it, if I can't I'll call out were it is so some one else will use it.
Hiding a CV is lame game play. If you take it, use it. Much like a field, if you take it, use it, defend it. Most NOEs are just that, grab the base and move off someplace else. 15 minutes later the base is recaptured, why not the CV too.
Falcon, you asked for opinions, and when people give them, you get upset because they are not the responses you wanted to hear. Maybe the old saying "the truth hurts" is in play. I think its possible you might even thing your "part of the horde" but were hoping people wouldn't think so. Now your stuck, because your eyes are wide open, but you don't know how to get out of the horde ,so you defend you style of game play by saying "you will do what ever it takes to help the bishops." The only time it seem that any one picks on you is when you admit it takes 6-8 B25s to sink a CV, or 12 110s 4 goons and assorted fighters to take a base, or that most of your missions are NOE.
I don't know about other who play, but win or lose isn't that big a deal.... well ok winning is better :D but to me if I could get descent fights when I fly I'm happy and having fun. I can't have fun trying to get the kill of the only bad guy around be chased by 5 other guys, nor can I have fun getting vulched by 6 guys while 12 110s are trying to take the town down.
Today your having fun with your NOE missions, and doing what ever it takes to help the bish. What happens tomorrow when two new squads show up. One is rook, the other is Knight. they both have squad night on Saturday night, and they both get 20-30 player in a mission. Ohhh and the last bit... they both loath the Bishops. I'm thinking with good planning and if they stick to hitting the Bish... because of chess piece loyalty you know they do what ever they can to help their teams..... they would have the Bish down to their uncapturable bases in a few hours. I bet that would be a fun Saturday night for the bish right? Fun is fun after all.
Thats how it going to go eventually you know. First it was "this" type of game play, then it was "that" type of game play, whats to be next? Maybe people who are skilled who run multible NOE at the same time. Priding themselves on take bases in "pairs" as fast as they can... WOW !!! won't that be fun ! :rolleyes:
I am sorry but you guys will never convince ME,nor MANY others in the other countrys that running missions is BAD game-play..Just as I will not convince YOU,nor MANY others that it is GOOD-game-play..So we are stuck....And must agree to disagree.. :salute
I am sorry but you guys will never convince ME,nor MANY others in the other countrys that running missions is BAD game-play..Just as I will not convince YOU,nor MANY others that it is GOOD-game-play..So we are stuck....And must agree to disagree.. :saluteI don't think anyone said missions, in and of themselves are BAD, just the dweeby 50 plane noe runs, suicide lancs, etc type raids---most missions in those categories have encounters with airplanes/GV's of other countries at the absolute BOTTOM of their list of priorities, smacking undefended fields/buildings at the top---massive gameplay of the latter category is, IMO, the biggest thing that makes long-time members delete Aces High and cancel their accounts
..its how you get there.
I am sorry but you guys will never convince ME,nor MANY others in the other countrys that running missions is BAD game-play..Just as I will not convince YOU,nor MANY others that it is GOOD-game-play..So we are stuck....And must agree to disagree.. :salute
When I put together missions, I don't stick to any one mission style. I love buffs, Jug jabos, NOE's, all sorts. I'm bound to p!ss someone off out of the myriad of players in here. Oh, well. Brush it off and go on.Egg, Ive been in your missions before and on the other side of them. They are fun on both sides. You dint play that "sneaky Pete", take the base by all means necessary attitude and thats what is different. 25, even 30 jugs taking off 3 sectors away gives everyone involved a fighting chance which equates to fun.
........rather than a team that wins by exploiting rules.
Sooner or later you will come out of that bubble. Sometimes you cant always win at winning but you can always win at loosing. I would much rather watch a pro hockey, football etc.. team that plays their heart out but looses rather than a team that wins by exploiting rules.
Which pro hockey and football teams play with less than the allowed number of players on the ice or field because it's more of a challenge that way? "Gosh, these power plays aren't hard enough, let's put one of our players in the penalty box too!"
I like teams that play their hearts out too, I just may define that differently than you do.
Sometimes fighting against overwhelming odds is fun too, as long as it isn't all night. I'm learning to like being on the short side of of long odds now and then. That's different from being rammed by a guy trying to HO you, which is never fun or interesting. I just don't see running missions with a large group as inherently lame the way a lot of the other stuff discussed here is. If you NEVER get any serious opposition, sure, that would get boring, but that doesn't happen very often - usually a horde moving across the map gobbling up bases attracts attention fairly quickly.
And how does flying a mission with a dozen 110s "exploit the rules"?
ROFLOL...You guys crack me up..trying to define what makes a good mission and what doesnt..tell you what,you keep running your missions the way you want,and I will keep running mine the way I want..
Tral,you used to be in the top 3 for running the missions you now say shouldnt be run...Just because you stopped does not automatically mean everyone should stop also..
"RULES" being broken..What a bunch of fluff...
Falcon, you admitted you got tired of a furball going on at A9 for 5 hours so you got your horde together and killed it, then you went on and only 25-30 of you hit and took A10. My guess is there was a bunch of people having a blast in that furball and you decide to take all that fun away.... for what... the good of the Bish?Exactly why I lost respect to those mission generals. They see furballs as eyesoars and make it their job to crush the fun out of the game.
Talk about Lame game play.
There are approximately 20 red dots.
1 of those was the mission planner. What on earth was he thinking?
The very first reply in this whole thread just about sums things up. It's over kill on a vbase. An eastern block mentality to a game. Lets have a closer look.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/ahss41-1.jpg)
There are approximately 20 red dots.
1 of those was the mission planner. What on earth was he thinking?
The first 6 in should have closed the hangers and dealt the likely gv resistance.
Perhaps 2 goons leaving 12 to fiddle with there errm thumbs.
Of those 20 we have an over zealous mission planer. Why? A "what ever it takes" attitude? So what happens if all three sides end up with less than "SPORTING" mission planners? Split areans perhaps. ENY perhaps. Maybe something else because HTC can't code out stupidity. Maybe it'll be 3 roaming packs of skilless 2weekers with 3 equally skilless mission planers. 3 over inflated ego's to worried by failure.
I look at those dots and guesstimate that 6 of them actually have the skill and know how as to what to do. About 8 of those red dots have stall limiter off. 5 don't even know what stall limiter is and the rest can't fly with it off so they leave it on.
In plain simple words .....skilless bunch of eastern block mentality roaming red dots. Oh sure their "having fun". I used to drop house bricks on frogs that was fun too. Basically it's a skilless and lets face it, a lazy tactic to sledge hammer your way around the map. It doesn't promote learning any fighter skills for those that need it. It doesn't promote any decent fights. It doesn't promote a SPORTING CHANCE.
Now getting back to the fun part. How much fun would it be for you if I was to take a bloody minded attitude to capturing all your vbases / ports with 20+ man missions? How much fun is it going to be in here in 2 years time when these stupid over kill missions become the norm? Are you going to bail your ride to up a wirlie against 20+ fully loaded P47's or are you going to have your FUN and stick with what you were doing? <not a trick question>
As a strat player "over kill" is not the way forward. Missions are OK and even NOE missions are OK. Hiding cv's is OK if your a strat player. Hiding them forever isn't necessary either <depending on the map>.
Bomb n bail. Pork n auger. Suiciding bombers on cv's. Carpet bombing gvs. Have all become to common an occurrence. It's frowned upon by the majority but still occurs. Don't let these over kill mission become common occurrence too. It'll be the down fall of an otherwise enjoyable FUN game for ALL of us.
back in the old days we used to have these things called records and we played them on these machines called record players. Occasionally a record would have a scratch that caused the needle on the record player to skip. This caused the record being played to repeat the same small part over and over again. This phenomenon resulted in a cultural phrase for things that were no good but kept repeating themselves. Sounds like a broken record.
Which is what this thread has devolved into.
"and only 25-30 of you hit and took A10. My guess is there was a bunch of people having a blast in that furball and you decide to take all that fun away."
Sounds to me like 25-30 guys getting together and having fun for themselves. The game is about a lot more that furballing.
Close Lynx...but, the real question should be "What were the other 19 guys thinking?". There was a time when many such missions would simply be ignored as having an entertainment/boredom ratio that was simply too high.
(http://mail.yimg.com/a/i/mesg/tsmileys2/10.gif)I missed you, too.(http://mail.yimg.com/a/i/mesg/tsmileys2/13.gif)
Close Lynx...but, the real question should be "What were the other 19 guys thinking?". There was a time when many such missions would simply be ignored as having an entertainment/boredom ratio that was simply too high.
This is definitely not my main hobby. I do get outside a lot to take care of other responsibilites. The "score/rank/hours played" thing is a very poor basis on which to classify me.
In other words, I don't care.
Ya but sadly, it is without the gaggle of teenage girls running around in varying degrees of undress. I'd much rather this WERE a high school girl's locker room.
Nice quote twist there, did you read the part where he said he was "tired" of the furball that was going on so he decided to end it?
and then they needed to finish off the island to totally stop any fight in that area...
:rofl
This is just too funny,
Fug talking about bish taking back bish bases that for 3 days straight were stolen in the middle of the night by a rook horde, NOE STYLE. Then after many hours of effort during the day to get it back even while hiding CV's that were taken, Bish shut it down and took it back after every attempt failed by air land and sea because it was so defended, in the meantime rooks lost many bases on the knit front because 90% of the resources were at 9, 10 doing exactly what you criticized Falcon for "Doing what it takes at all expenses" There were IL2's at 17k, many fighters or flying tanks that were above 20k-30k, many to stop anything at all cost from getting into the base. Less not forget the suicidal dive bombing 234's, 24's, 110's, B-25's, lancstukas, and countless others that were doing everything at all cost to kill that cv. :lol
And you want to cry about it. Give me a break. Your lucky that we were nice enough to tolerate it for as long as we did, we easily could have run NOE's to your undefended bases in the rear since rooks were so fixated on keeping OUR base and CV.
Once we got them back we didnt push deeper into rook land, we enjoyed the equality of everyone having the equal bases. Dont expect for bish to play fair or your way when stealing cv's or occupying deep into bish land that you wont get a fight back in any form or fashion that you may not agree with.
I still dont see what Rules have been exploited through all of this. Other than its not what you agree with or not playing your way. This applies and its simple: You want it your way and when you have the advantage only, typical.
IMO
:rofl
Do you think they "Rooks" were looking for a fight when they took it to begin with? Especially hiding the cv, isnt that avoiding the fight also?
You also failed to mention that the fight in that area lasted well over 8 hours trying to get it back.
Close Lynx...but, the real question should be "What were the other 19 guys thinking?". There was a time when many such missions would simply be ignored as having an entertainment/boredom ratio that was simply too high.
It really irks me when folk are hard of understanding. STAT-IST-ICS. Your stats scream a thousand words. I ALSO don't care about your SCORE but the STATS say it all. Frankly they typified the sum of you and your ilk.
Your not following this are you. I can see it now. Sat there going ..."whats score got to do with it". Pretty much the same way that you don't understand the potential erosion to game play. I'll tell you....score has nothing to do with it even if u played 3 hours or 3000 hours. The stats say everything though.
Hit percentage.... average to crap. Kills to death ....crap. More sorties to kills and so and so on. Dude...really! Its not a wonder you seek Solis in a 20+ man mission. You can't survive or get things done without them.
This TYPIFIES what I was saying in my first post here. "missed"...the Air con, the hanger, the Gv, the ack but most of all missed the bleedin plot...jesus H :rolleyes:
It's not even worth posting anymore.
2% of you get it, the rest are just idiots. You wouldn't even get it, if I may quote someone here, if you got run over by a bus with it.
Kinda sounds like the breakdown of intelligence in the real world, shocking...
Carry on.
Watch the movie "Idiocracy" and tell me if you see any parallels to in here.
Then may I suggest that before you use "someone else" as an example, you should start on YOUR side that your on which ever that may be.
When have you ever put out on 200 the location of a hidden cv? Try PM me that next time and I will take your word on that one.
You were not there for the previous umteen hours of "fighting" so you dont have a leg to stand on, you just saw the END of the fight and you pissed all over yourself trying to place blame using your "example" on Falcon, when in fact the BISH worked together to get back the bases that was taken by YOUR side in a lame way..... I think Falcon, the Bish, everyone involved worked together to make it right for everyone. Hero's of the cartoon world. IMO :lol
HT, Please create a map that has 1 Base each at an alt of 15k 1 sector apart so the ones interested can bang away at each other to their hearts content, this will eliminate the base capture complaints two fold, and satisfy the needs of the wanna be aces in this game. The MA has way to many facets of game style and play that some cannot or will not fathom nor accept. Problem solved. :aok
Oh...and if you think real pilots blew right in front of comrades to shoot a bandit that was already being shot up/at, without repercussions, think again. In R/L, the safety issues alone of two friendlies trying to shoot the same bandit simultaneously are daunting.
ahhh to make it right I see... were the taxes due and the bish short on "land" so they couldn't collect as much? If you loose to many base they take away your women? I couldn't care lees if the fight is for A9, or A51 on the coast. The point is there was a fight, and those guy went out of their way to kill it. Did they attack 51 after taking the island to continue the fight, nope they had their land back, no need. :rolleyes:
My guess is this conversation is just way to far over your head Dadsguns, either that or you haven't read along, and just jumped in here to spout off. I have mentioned a number of types of missions and plans that would be great game play. I don't think any one has said to get rid of missions or captures, its how people are going about those missions and captures that are lame. FALCON admitted "he" was tired of the furball, and "he" decided to get everyone together to end it once and for all. 8 hours, 5 hours, it doesn't matter, it was a battle where people were having fun. IF they were NOT having fun don't you think they would have left....oh like maybe when the "horde" shows up and most of the defenders leave.
Two friendlies attacking from the same direction is a rookie level mistake. The entire purpose of 2 versus 1 tactics is to create a more complex problem for the bandit, not simplify it by piling everybody in trail on the bandit.
Double attack, done right, will have the two friendlies operating 90 degrees off plane from each other. When the engaged fighter calls off, the free fighter will engage from a direction that is out of plane with the fight and unseen by the bandit if he is positioning correctly.
Loose Deuce resembles this "kill stealing" a little better. The entire purpose of Loose Deuce tactics is to get the bandit predictable by applying offensive pressure but not so much pressure that the bandit goes panic defensive. This allows a competent loose deuce wing man to set up a high blind side attack. In a classic Heart Attack merge against a Loose Deuce pair the bandit will come under guns from his belly side at about 180 degrees into his first post merge break. The bandit will be defending against the engaged fighter pressuring from the control zone but not pushing hard for a shot and the free fighter will maneuver to shoot while the bandit is thus distracted.
I fly Loose Deuce with my squaddies but the really great thing about Loose Deuce is your wing man doesn't even have to know he is flying Loose Deuce for it to be effective. Its quite effective in a flat fight on the deck that is anchored. It is a simple matter of positioning over the bandit post and swooping in for a hi-lo belly side attack and the bandit is concentrating on the bandit in his control zone. Then you can swoop away. With proper planning you are on a good heading and wont need to waste energy turning to get a good heading for building back the energy bank. A quick scan and its easy to pitch back in or egress as necessary.
we took back what was ours to begin with
HT, Please create a map that has 1 Base each at an alt of 15k 1 sector apart so the ones interested can bang away at each other to their hearts content, this will eliminate the base capture complaints two fold, and satisfy the needs of the wanna be aces in this game. The MA has way to many facets of game style and play that some cannot or will not fathom nor accept. Problem solved. :aok
Says the guy who can't even fathom where someone like Stang is coming from. He's been where you are at (many moons ago) but you have yet to come even close to where is skillwise. You can't pass any sort of judgment on him because you are unable to even understand his perspective. And unless you make some huge leap in skill over the next few years you might never. He can see where you are comging from, heck, any noob with a year or two under their belt can see that. Maybe in a few years, if you practice diligently, you WILL see where he is coming from and fully understand what Stang is saying. Until you reach that point I would humbly suggest less typey typey, more practicey practicey. Of course you can always stay at the lower echelons of skill and be perfectly happy there. I'm ok w/ it if you are.
Something said earlier in this thread got me thinking.
The reason many of the missions discussed here are lame is because the people who run them are lacking skill. Most can't fight at all, or are at best "ok". I know beyond all shadow of a doubt you can't fight worth a hoot dads. I also know falcon23 isn't much to speak of as a fighter either. Being only mediocre or even "poor" fighters, y'all lack the perspective of how accomplish goals based on skill. You and yours don't capture the number of bases you do because you are particularly "good" at it (read: skilled). You capture them using raw numbers alone because you lack the ability to do anything else but (read: unskilled). A base take where I might need 10-12 pilots you need twice that to get the same results.
Until you and yours log the hours/days/months/years it takes to reach that level of skill and attain the perspective you gain at said level, you will always "think" what you are doing is "skillfull" or "good", but the reality of the situation is usually just the opposite.
Might I add by teaching other players, mostly noobs, to do as y'all do, you are dragging down the gameplay as opposed to bettering it. With your way of doing things you end up with huge masses of players that are unable to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Do tell how your methods improve the gameplay. Seems to me all it does is promote skilless noobs to stay skilless noobs.
:rofl
Must be tough sitting on top of that mountain.
Fred
Watch the movie "Idiocracy" and tell me if you see any parallels to in here.
Watch the movie "Idiocracy" and tell me if you see any parallels to in here.(http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ZFGZVSdAvV1mGM:http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1610/idiocracy10qg3.png)
The years passed, mankind became stupider at a frightening rate. Some had high hopes the genetic engineering would correct this trend in evolution, but sadly the greatest minds and resources where focused on conquering hair loss and prolonging erections.
There was a time when reading wasn't just for studmuffins. And neither was writing. People wrote books and movies. Movies with stories, that made you care about whose bellybutton it was and why it was farting. And I believe that time can come again!
The reason many of the missions discussed here are lame is because the people who run them are lacking skill. Most can't fight at all, or are at best "ok". I know beyond all shadow of a doubt you can't fight worth a hoot dads. I also know falcon23 isn't much to speak of as a fighter either. Being only mediocre or even "poor" fighters, y'all lack the perspective of how accomplish goals based on skill. You and yours don't capture the number of bases you do because you are particularly "good" at it (read: skilled). You capture them using raw numbers alone because you lack the ability to do anything else but (read: unskilled). A base take where I might need 10-12 pilots you need twice that to get the same results.
Many of them would also get slaughtered if they ventured outside the cozy confines of the horde. Some will evolve, some will quit, others will be hordelings for life. I just don't think we should belittle them overmuch... just enough perhaps to encourage them to fly from the nest (horde). :saluteWell said Steve :aok
Lifetime hordelings cannot be cured, they can only be shot down, again, and again, and again. :aok
If by "Down and dirty" you mean fight weenie hoards like you and yours and generally racking up 10-20 kills vs. a death or two then I get down and dirty lots actually. May I add that I have a blast doing so. (too bad you can't and probably never will be able to say the same)
If I only die once or twice and rack up 10-20 kills doing so, I "win". It doesn't matter if the base is saved or captured by the nme, I "won".
What gives me a chuckle is how many times you mass the dweebs, have every advantage possible, and fail. Y'all fail quite often actually. For every few bases take you get, I can think of one you failed at. I will even give you a quasi-compliment that you have become more efficient at taking a base and ensuring little to no Resistance. You have learned how to achieve success in spite of your shortcomings.
That would be a compliment if it wasn't for the WAY you have learned to achieve said success. Dive bombing lancs? (check) Kill the FH/VH/BH BEFORE you launch the mission? (check) Constant noe mass hoard raids vs. fields that no nme is at? (check) You name a lame game style and I have seen you and yours do it time and time again. Heck, you've refined it.
If there is a glitch in the game, say dry spawning lvt's, you have gone out of your way to figure out how to pull off that glitch and you use it every chance you can.
It's a shortcut to perceived success. As I stated above, you might take the base (perceived success) but if you die in droves doing so vs. an opponent you vastly outnumbered in my book that is a failure.
What you remind me of is a pack of 30 6 year olds that ambushed and beat up Mike Tyson because of raw numbers alone. You jumped him when he wasn't looking and swarmed him. You then talk smack about it, and go on and on about how "good" you are because you beat up Tyson. That is until Mr. Tyson catches any of you alone, or in a small group. Then you are all dead, and dead quick. Same thing with you and yours in Aces High.. SURE you can brag about what great (snicker) "base takers" you are, but alone or in small numbers you are fodder. That is the reality of the situation. You go on and on about something that is skilless, and try to spin it like what you do is difficult or takes something beyond a rudimentary grasp on the game to pull off.
It isn't, and you don't. Nothing that you do is new, unique, or hasn't been done time and again for 10-20yrs before you ever heard of WW2 flight sims.
And yes, I would place Stang up there with the "Great Ones". Someone who has forgotten more than you will probably learn about this game. Somebody you should prob. shut up and listen to. Someone that earned the respect of the community many times over. The mere fact that YOU don't know who Stang is is quite telling to me. It shows me how little you really know.
I will add that the reason we have hardly fought is twofold. 1) You will never man up and fight me in the DA 1 on 1. It's been offered countless times, and you chicken out every time. (which is a shame 'cause I could actually show you how to fight) 2) You avoid fighting like the plague. If the fight is at all "Even" you are generally no where to be found.
Me? I look for the base with the large nme dar bar and small friendly dar and up. You? You avoid that large nme dar bar at all costs. (which is sad because you never will learn how to fight by avoiding one. All you are doing is perpetuating your mediocrity)
Nothing that you do is new, unique, or hasn't been done time and again for 10-20yrs before you ever heard of WW2 flight sims.
WOW,a day at work and people get worked up...
Any side would of fought to get those bases back..WHY?? because while the FB is going on,there are some rooks somewhere in that mass who are trying to get the port and get the CV back again,they are on every side..This is why bish needed to get back 9 and 10 to protect the areas west of those bases..WHY?? because rooks have people on their side just as every side does who wants to take bases..We are protecting our interests,dont rooks and nits??I bet they do..
As far as what I said to you fugitive..I have the screenshot of 99% of the convo.
I never said anything about trying to break up the FB,only that the base needed to be taken back..If taking bases and holding them is not rook priority,then why ruin GV'ers fun by keeping V10,which was just as down and dirty fighting as was at A9..when,if rooks would of given it up,there could of been some "FUN" gv fighting by rooks and bish,But that is not the reason why you guys took 9,and why rooks kept 10...It is because it is LAND which you did not own prior..If the furball between the CV and A9 was such a big deal,and such "FUN"why did rooks keep killing the "FUN" by killing the CV??I know why:
Because of the natural propensity of sides to MOVE into other territory which they do not own..
You were only on for that long as you say and then PM me that I am ruining your fun??And that if it is the same in the north,which BTW you guys were fighting nits,that you were going to log off?? and THANKS to ME for ruining your fun???...
Not ONE BISH was upset that we got 9 and 10 back..why is that?? because it was a detriment for you guys to be that close to our mainland in that area..
And for the record here is the screenshot I took of our convo...
Where I am telling you all sides do that,you had spoken to me about not needing that many to take a VBASE,and my reply was that I have no control over the bish,and that a mission had not been posted..
You guys holler about there not being enough furballs,or AvA combat..it is all over the map if that is your true gripe..If it is just that there are many in a mission,well,it is nothing out of the norm for any side to run missions of that sort.. :salute
NOw we get to the real reason for the attack on dadsguns,you are getting personal,that he wont fight you in the DA...
Why not get in the DA with him? As "elitist" as Lute may seem, hes a good guy given you dont give him a pissant attitude. I gaurantee that you will come out of it with a wealth of information and new found respect for eachother.
B.S. it does. I do not have time to treat Aces High like a paying career. When it really gets down to it, this is the most trivial thing to devote hours upon hours to. Silly wabbit.
Meanwhile, Boxboy's quote in my sig is where I stand.
What worries me is the new guys that come here have less and less skilled folks to set an example. :uhoh
Bish and squad get along with me fine. Comradery is fun. That's why I play, when I play. Sorry if it spoils your sandbox. This in its self doesn't spoil my sand box.
If and when Hitech stops me, that is when you will be happy. On the contrary. I'll be most pissed off if that happens because the punitive messures that HTC takes, if at all to be fair to add, will affect US ALL.
What woorries me is the new guys come along and see LYNX setting an example as a skilled player who they look upto and want to reach the same uberness and skill level. Then they will quit there job and give up on life so they can play aces high every hour god sends so they can be super uber like there hero LYNX.
Well, here's a double edged sword. Let's say these guys are average players. Let's say it takes more average players to take a base than the skilled players you talk about. Are the average players to refrain from taking bases because they are not elite? Let's say you can take the base with half as many players...that's great but........ so what? You have the benefit of getting in the game sooner than many of the average players. Because they are further down the learning curve, are they somehow less entitled to try to take bases? If they need the numbers to have a good chance at success, should they be deprived of this fun?Great post Steve. Like most here, my AH time is sometimes limited to a sortie or 2 or 20. I dont have time to run missions or what have you. During those times, Ill scope the map and look for the nearest furball or head into tank town for a brief enjoyment. Those armchair generals that are in question the ones that wanna win da War3 at all cost are the ones that look at places like tanktown or furballs as a "waste in resourses". that the ones that are in there arent helping the "ultimate cause". So what do they do?..they bomb it, obliterate it AT ALL COST to make sure their countrymates have nothing else to do but help in reseting the maps. Ive seen it.
You can argue that they need to get better.... OK. Why can't they try to take bases in the mean time? While this is going on the skilled pilots can continue to encourage these folks to improve. The vets can offer advice, training, etc.
Lute, you know I hold you in high regard but, IMHO, your position smacks of elitism. We need a continuing influx of players to keep the game alive. Discouraging noobs will contribute to the demise of the game. Yes, I understand you are trying to "show them the way" to improve.. I get it. I think that many of these hordelings are people who enjoy teamwork and the comraderie of a group objective. Many of them would also get slaughtered if they ventured outside the cozy confines of the horde. Some will evolve, some will quit, others will be hordelings for life. I just don't think we should belittle them overmuch... just enough perhaps to encourage them to fly from the nest (horde). :salute
Lifetime hordelings cannot be cured, they can only be shot down, again, and again, and again. :aok
Can you understand that? 20 vs 3 is poor game play?
Maybe if I advertised where our mission is (despite the darbar that stays visible for minutes on end) on ch.200 it'll help the other side get organized and (GASP!) it will create a fight.
How can it be bad gameplay? Because your team didn't menage to up enough players to counter the attack? Or because the enemy did go through the trouble of working as a team?
Shoot them down you say?..Id love too. Have you ever played hopscotch with these guys around the map on a night?..they do EVERYTHING to avoid me shooting them down. You stop the NOE at say A35. Give it 2 minutes before you see wayyyy off a base flashing with 50 GVs trying to camp the feild. rinse and repeat. This goes on and on all night trust me
:rofl Been done already,,, still didnt stop it. They didnt even show up.(http://mail.yimg.com/a/i/mesg/tsmileys2/33.gif)I'll have to test this out then (again) Friday night. I'll post a "Lead the Rook By The Nose" mission. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? More of this? I'm still alive and kicking so far.
Which this is the result.
(http://mail.yimg.com/a/i/mesg/tsmileys2/33.gif)I'll have to test this out then (again) Friday night. I'll post a "Lead the Rook By The Nose" mission. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? More of this? I'm still alive and kicking so far.
:rofl Been done already,,, still didnt stop it. They didnt even show up.
Which this is the result.
Fug, your snapshot says more than just bish attacking your town, there were as many rooks if not more around that base, where were they? 20k+ above the base, NW of the base attacking the CV preventing any aircraft getting in, several at the V-base covering for any bombers, EVERYTHING was covered, except your own base. We took advantage of this, its that simple.
As for lynx saying he is seeing MORE of these missions, Your out of touch or your making it up, As for Bish goes, I see less of these missions than the last several years and many longtime bish will agree with that. I do recall seeing many missions posted over and over with missions in the past, there is nowhere near that amount going on now.
Maybe running them more often and at the same pace as the past will jog your memory and give you a warm and fuzzy.
Is this kind of like the day I shot you down 3 times in a row to kill some tents at an airfield, taking them down at all cost..... and then hide in the "BIG RED DAR" Is that the kind of avoidance you speak of, help me understand what you mean by avoiding YOU shooting THEM down. :lol
Sounds good.
Whats going to be funny is the type of resistance that shows up, everything from under the kitchen sink that can peel a tater...... :lol if anything at all.
Alive and well myself, as a matter of fact getting ready for summer, got the Jetski and Boat ready, tents weather proofed, camping gear, got a 2 week camping trip planned out....
The point is these missions are becoming the norm. Everything in this game is geared toward one thing...combat. These type of missions don't bring combat, they chase it away, and there by avoid it. It also creates a spot for players to hide in. Why are they hiding? Because they are not very good alone. So in stead of spending time to learn HOW to play the game, they hide behind all of the numbers. In my screen shot...not counting me... there are 3 of those 20 with a positive k/d (more kills than deaths) and two of them are single flights under one heading which they no longer fly just to keep the score. Why should these people try to improve? They can hide behind the horde. The downside is with no skills the only way they CAN play AND "WIN" is hiding in a group.
Your assuming that ANYONE involved in missions or with a k/d (more deaths than kills) cant fight or have skill? Your wrong. There are many facets to playing this game and some of these guys are rather good.
Remember this, this score system means nothing if score means nothing to the player. You take it as FACT no matter what you see.
Some of you will never know, since these players dont choose to fight YOUR fight and fly to 20k and fight someone that will choose to run to buds, or dive to ack, or avoid a death at all cost when an advantage is placed on them even during a 1 on 1, thats not a fight. We all seen these players, they will avoid with the fight with a passion if a threat of them getting shot down arises. Period. You know who some of these guys are as well as the rest of us. You cant deny that people want to fight, but the instant someone has an advantage especially if its over a higher ranking guy, their ghost.
So who is avoiding a fight? Its been shown over and over again that usually when your dealing with someone that cares about their score, they wont fight unless its an absolute advantage, by ALT, by E, by numbers (horde),, Yes there are fighter hordes too,,, so in a furball, who usually is at the highest altitude? higher ranking players.... Am I wrong? They climb out for a sector and a half come back in and look for the easy picks where others are engaged in 1v1. Am I wrong?
So when you say that someone is avoiding a fight, you cant be more wrong, they just dont want to be bullied or pad someones score because they have to fight a fight only when they have a disadvantage.
IMO, As for NOE's, they are effective. Usually the ones that dont care about score are in them, why? k/d dont mean anything to them. Most can still fly and handle their own in a 1 on 1, but most of you wouldnt know that, some of you are never alone yourself to find out because your at the safe harbor of your friendly dar in a furball. More often than not most of us are out and alone fighting not in base take mode but looking for a good fight. Its very hard to find 2v2's 3v3's or even 5v3's with or without advantage. But I dont take any pride in RTB'ing with someone on my six, I am usually in it till one of us is shot down. THATS the true SCORE, who will fight to the death.
Venture out and look for a fight, I find them all the time. ALONE. Fly something that cant go 25k, Shooting down TBM's all day with a TEMP has got to get old, but its not about that, its about having the advantage at all cost and your precious k/d.
SNIP
As for lynx saying he is seeing MORE of these missions, Your out of touch or your making it up, As for Bish goes, I see less of these missions than the last several years and many longtime bish will agree with that. I do recall seeing many missions posted over and over with missions in the past, there is nowhere near that amount going on now.
Maybe running them more often and at the same pace as the past will jog your memory and give you a warm and fuzzy.
The very first reply in this whole thread just about sums things up. It's over kill on a vbase. An eastern block mentality to a game. Lets have a closer look.
Now getting back to the fun part. How much fun would it be for you if I was to take a bloody minded attitude to capturing all your vbases / ports with 20+ man missions? How much fun is it going to be in here in 2 years time when these stupid over kill missions become the norm? Are you going to bail your ride to up a wirlie against 20+ fully loaded P47's or are you going to have your FUN and stick with what you were doing? <not a trick question>
Bomb n bail. Pork n auger. Suiciding bombers on cv's. Carpet bombing gvs. Have all become to common an occurrence. It's frowned upon by the majority but still occurs. Don't let these over kill mission become common occurrence too. It'll be the down fall of an otherwise enjoyable FUN game for ALL of us.
I have no objections to missions or the occasional NOE missions. I'm a strat player like yourself. What I object to is these rather pathetic skilless over kill missions that have been occurring of late. I say of late because that's bang on. I'm not sat here saying "in ye olden days it was like this blah blah". I've been here since 2002 and the only time I witnessed a mission like these was over 4 years ago. A 30 man Lgay mission by, of all people, GHI. The first eastern block mission planner
These types of over kill missions are becoming a little to frequent. I would hate them to become acceptable. I would loath them to be adapted by all sides. I think there bad for game play on the whole but using your Hitech example neither of us know what their thinking. So lets hypothesis. Say they do change something like making the mission planner have a maximum of 12 players per mission from any given field. What would you do then. Roll with the punches as in the case of ENY, split arenas, the same small maps for months on end. Would you adapt or just say "oh heck the games not fun anymore. I'm outta here"
I'm not posting here about "mission" per sa (spelling). I'm posting about "over kill missions" in context to the OP thread about poor game play, to places like ports and vbases. As much as you've confused or dismissed that FACT my observations stand true. As your good bud thndregg will testify.
See the underlining theme here "OVER KILL MISSION"...not your poxy every day mission win or fail. I'm talking 20+ to a vbase / port. If you don't see that as over kill. If you don't see that as detrimentle to the game. Talk about out of touch....dude you take the biscuit.
These types of over kill missions are becoming a little to frequent. I would hate them to become acceptable.
As for lynx saying he is seeing MORE of these missions, Your out of touch or your making it up, As for Bish goes, I see less of these missions than the last several years and many longtime bish will agree with that. I do recall seeing many missions posted over and over with missions in the past, there is nowhere near that amount going on now.
Maybe running them more often and at the same pace as the past will jog your memory and give you a warm and fuzzy.
Cute, You could actually plug many different things into that cartoon,,,,, But way to go Falcon, you have officially hit the Bigtime.... :lol
Riddle me this one......
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/Fallen-Tree-Watson-Lake-L.jpg)
Nope you can't hear it! :rofl
There is no disrespect meant to any of these folks, but the way things were, will never be again.
Agreed, it isn't about disrespecting them, its helping them understand that we understand as well, that as a community, TOGETHER, have to work at improving game play, participation, growth, for the benefit of the game, but do it with responsibility, where Everyone can enjoy the game, not dictated by a few that think someone elses game play is lame because THEY said so.
Change:its a daily part of our lives that at times can be hard to face
I am equally sure if one was to go back to AirWarrior on GENIE we can find another group.
Change?
To all the nay Sayers IE: the Lute & lynx type people, who really cares what you guys think, we do not pay our money to you and I'm sorry to say your version of all events that happen in the AH world are not the end all or be all of what should or should not take place. My take is this if you don't like the way we take your bases, you don't like the way we fight (not within your tiny little acceptance area) then come and stop us, you claim to be so good at what it should be all about then put up or shut up, this redundant whining from you people is getting ridiculous.
I know your alot slow, but the change that I was referring to is as stated in the rest of my quote that you failed to acknowledge, its along the lines of acceptance, it is what it is and for 20 years now you have posted your lame responses to anything indifferent and its got you nowhere..... Accept it. :)
If it has all been done before, then why are folks complaining? Has'nt that been done before also? Based on your premise, it will all occur again anyway(sounds kinda like the Matrix LOL).Because back in the day, the arenas were smaller and the community much closer knit. Tards were shamed mercilessly, constantly, as they should be. There was no annonymity in numbers. Pacerrs would stick out like sore thumbs and be castigated for their dweebish behavior.
Do you think the game would be better if we had 1,000 TonyJoey's, or 1,000 falcon's whatever number I've never heard of the guy?...
Agreed, it isn't about disrespecting them, its helping them understand that we understand as well, that as a community, TOGETHER, have to work at improving game play, participation, growth, for the benefit of the game, but do it with responsibility, where Everyone can enjoy the game, not dictated by a few that think someone elses game play is lame because THEY said so.
Change:its a daily part of our lives that at times can be hard to face
IN response to your earlier post tral..You may not know this,but you imply it in your post,that I want TT's or FT's taken..nothing could be further from the truth..You guys need to stop putting words in peoples mouths...
I want the FB going on,it keeps other bases free when we go in to take them..I appreciate the FB'ers... :aok And TT'ers :aok
Fugitive,you keep referring to the MEGA-SQUADS as the ones who HORDE,and nothing could be further from the truth..99% of my missions are country missions..That means you have a problem with the COUNTRY,not the squads..Inserting the MEGA-SQUADS into your posts is merely propaganda...
Smokey23,25 planes coming into a Vbase that had at least as many defenders as we had coming over..not to mention the ones flying from A9 to help you all out..You guys did a great job,kept it for quite a few hours..But the defense was just as great as the offense..
That is why one does not see a dar bar at 10 after we took 9...GV's dont show up on the DAR..there were many,but we got them wiped out and took back the base..
You guys at V10 going to say it wasnt fun defending at V10??landing those WW and ostie kills???You going to say it wasnt a "FUN" fight?? Because if it wasnt fun for you,then why did you stay and defend so vigorously???
Again,not ONe bish was upset we got those bases back..
And if,as many of you say,it isnt about taking bases,then why waste your time coming and taking bases like A9 and V10????? If you want a fight and furball,then why dont you guys just fight it out at a closer base on the map,and not take any bases????
if we had 1000 tonyjoeys i would quit, Its bad enough trying to play koth with one of him.
but otherwise, amen stang.
NO,I am sorry fugitive,but many times all of RT who are on do not join posted missions..You are assuming again..
So we have come to a defintion..50 is an official "HORDE"?????
I'd rather tony handing my butt to me all night instead of having to deal with even one horde.
A hoard is defined by the amount of opponents.
Three or four planes can be a hoard if there is only one bad guy.
If you run a 50 player mission against a field that has a massive enemy presence it is not a hoard.
It's is not how many players YOU have, it is how many opponents you are attacking.
A hoard is defined by the amount of opponents.
Three or four planes can be a hoard if there is only one bad guy.
If you run a 50 player mission against a field that has a massive enemy presence it is not a hoard.
It's is not how many players YOU have, it is how many opponents you are attacking.
So we have come to a defintion..50 is an official "HORDE"?????
LOL!!! WOW That comment was so funny... whew that was a good laugh !
Maybe thats the issue, you just don't know what a horde is?
"Dude", um if thats how you prefer, Any mission that you would consider to be overkill can only be justified upon arrival of a base, having too little to accomplish or too many to accomplish the goal in said mission can be dictated by the unknown. That unknown is dictated by the resistance encountered. So, high en site is 20/20, knowing if it was overkill is something determined after the fact.
Bases can be taken with as little as 1 to as many as infinite, its dictated by the resistance or potential of resistance of what may be encountered.
So which is it, out of touch, or just making it up, your comprehension? :lol
LOL!!! WOW That comment was so funny... whew that was a good laugh !
Maybe thats the issue, you just don't know what a horde is?
A hoard is defined by the amount of opponents.
Three or four planes can be a hoard if there is only one bad guy.
If you run a 50 player mission against a field that has a massive enemy presence it is not a hoard.
It's is not how many players YOU have, it is how many opponents you are attacking.
Agreed, it isn't about disrespecting them, its helping them understand that we understand as well, that as a community, TOGETHER, have to work at improving game play, participation, growth, for the benefit of the game, but do it with responsibility, where Everyone can enjoy the game, not dictated by a few that think someone elses game play is lame because THEY said so.
If you ask me it all comes down to chosing the wrong arena for the right gameplay.
The MA is not a dueling arena. Despite the fact that i am 100% a furballer, dogfighter and generaly have nothing to do with base captures.....I actualy think this one is winging to the land grabbers side, hear me out.
1) A horde is only a horde if there is no opposition. You cannot expect a squad to split onto two sides and fight each other just because the other team doesnt care about the base.
2) If you do not care about bases, then let them take it. What does it matter? It does not hurt anyone if they take an undefended base.
3) If you get caught and 'dishonourably' dispatched by the horde that is your own fault for flying there.
4) Anyone who lies and says they have never once been at a huge advantage and shot at anything with a red icon can stop posting all toether.
5) Its simulated warfare in the MA. When the horde gets you, it is time to rally the troops and fight back not complain that they did not line up for orderly 1 v 1 till you lost.
6) this whole debate is so old even the arguments on the side i agree with, furballing and dogfighting, are getting extremely boring.
7)And finally: Who is it that is being annoyed the most here? Furballers and lone wolfs that is who.
We are annoyed that sometimes our fights are shut down, land grabbers are annoyed that our fighting serves no purpose but the fight itself. But truly, In this forum debate the furballers are now just plain whining.
It's boring, the MA is what it is, please everyone shut the hell up about it or at the very least get some new material.
If you ask me it all comes down to chosing the wrong arena for the right gameplay.
The MA is not a dueling arena. Despite the fact that i am 100% a furballer, dogfighter and generaly have nothing to do with base captures.....I actualy think this one is winging to the land grabbers side, hear me out.
1) A horde is only a horde if there is no opposition. You cannot expect a squad to split onto two sides and fight each other just because the other team doesnt care about the base.
2) If you do not care about bases, then let them take it. What does it matter? It does not hurt anyone if they take an undefended base.
3) If you get caught and 'dishonourably' dispatched by the horde that is your own fault for flying there.
4) Anyone who lies and says they have never once been at a huge advantage and shot at anything with a red icon can stop posting all toether.
5) Its simulated warfare in the MA. When the horde gets you, it is time to rally the troops and fight back not complain that they did not line up for orderly 1 v 1 till you lost.
6) this whole debate is so old even the arguments on the side i agree with, furballing and dogfighting, are getting extremely boring.
7)And finally: Who is it that is being annoyed the most here? Furballers and lone wolfs that is who.
We are annoyed that sometimes our fights are shut down, land grabbers are annoyed that our fighting serves no purpose but the fight itself. But truly, In this forum debate the furballers are now just plain whining.
It's boring, the MA is what it is, please everyone shut the hell up about it or at the very least get some new material.
The point still stands, 15 slots means 15 people. 50 slots means HORDE!
NO,I am sorry fugitive,but many times all of RT who are on do not join posted missions..You are assuming again..
Maybe thats the issue, you just don't know what a horde is?
Agreed, it isn't about disrespecting them, its helping them understand that we understand as well, that as a community, TOGETHER, have to work at improving game play, participation, growth, for the benefit of the game, but do it with responsibility, where Everyone can enjoy the game, not dictated by a few that think someone elses game play is lame because THEY said so.
Change:its a daily part of our lives that at times can be hard to face
Makes me think of Alice, wonder land, and an over sized top hat for some reason.
So what your condoning is every mission should expect the worse and cater to that fact.
Lmao..you got 1 proxie on me while I was porking the feild then knowing I had 1 tent left, you and the other 6 spixteens met me at 20k in which 6 of you attacked my heavy typh. in which I did salute you. Please post film if you must.
Is this kind of like the day I shot you down 3 times in a row to kill some tents at an airfield, taking them down at all cost..... and then hide in the "BIG RED DAR" Is that the kind of avoidance you speak of, help me understand what you mean by avoiding YOU shooting THEM down. :lol
Lmao..you got 1 proxie on me while I was porking the feild then knowing I had 1 tent left, you and the other 6 spixteens met me at 20k in which 6 of you attacked my heavy typh. in which I did salute you. Please post film if you must.
Lmao..you got 1 proxie on me while I was porking the feild then knowing I had 1 tent left, you and the other 6 spixteens met me at 20k in which 6 of you attacked my heavy typh. in which I did salute you. Please post film if you must.
NO
You guys take bases with half that amount,...6/110's 3 niks,and 2 goons???Well congrats ,and good thing you did not have any resistance..
I put 15 slots for 110's in my missions,I put 10 slots for fighters,and 4 goons,I do not see where that is horrible..I want the town down as FAST as possible,I dont want to sit there and "FONDLE" it..I want it DOWN,and so do the people who are with me,..
You want to see A 50 man mission???? that would be the one with 190a8's,when eny has gone through the roof,literally,,and is over 25..
ANd tral I never said that 12 110's missions were a challenge to me,you put words in my mouth..but I want to be sure when I launch a mission for a particular target,that it goes down the way it is supposed too..and that is that it gets captured..
In your justification for defending detrimental game play / over kill missions to vbases & ports you appear to be contradicting yourself. You mention "hindsite" (kinda) in one paragraph and "potential resistance" in the other. So what your condoning is every mission should expect the worse and cater to that fact. Letting hindsite be the judge of things after the event. Do the words "reasonable deduction" strike a cord when pondering, if at all, the potential resistance? .....Comprehend?
"Dude", um if thats how you prefer, Any mission that you would consider to be overkill can only be justified upon arrival of a base, having too little to accomplish or too many to accomplish the goal in said mission can be dictated by the unknown. That unknown is dictated by the resistance encountered. So, high en site is 20/20, knowing if it was overkill is something determined after the fact.
Bases can be taken with as little as 1 to as many as infinite, its dictated by the resistance or potential of resistance of what may be encountered.
This snapshot has been used many times, and I for one was not involved and am not aware of the outcome of that mission. However, had I been I would have attacked the remaining bases in that area, if this was the result of this mission, bravo for them, if it wasnt then its was a poor use of the resources that mission planner had. Nothing more.
There is nothing wrong with my engrish, I pretty much understood what you said here, that they are becoming a little to frequent, Again, my comment stated the opposite. You still disagree? I will post it for you.....
So which is it, out of touch, or just making it up, your comprehension? :lol
Tral, that was 1 proxie and 2 kills in the same sortie, I refueled and waited for your return, the last return, there were other cons there on the way to the v bases, 2 sqaudies were there because I told them I just got the proxie on you, and that you would come back since there was 1 tent left,,,, and you did.. I landed 3 kills all from you.Nope, 1 kill. The first was a proxie from ack. and NOPE there were 6 of you chasing a heavy typh, 3 of which were high about 20k circling the base when I came in. would you like me to post the gangbang and look foolish? you got 1 pick on me the other day at 62 in which I did reply good shot. Stats dont tell gangbangs remember. 1 guy porking is a far cry from what your saying. maybe I should of asked 50 other guys to come with me and plow the town...that would of been more of an ALL COST sortie.
But you got it at all cost, which I would have done, you were trying to keep the troops disabled, we quickly resupplied and had them back up faster than you could take them down.
I dont have film of it, but you can easily see that in the score page.
Did you record me killing your bombers last week sir? I'd really like that film. :saluteLol..that was good..I admit..nice shooting
Lol..that was good..I admit..nice shooting
Nope, 1 kill. The first was a proxie from ack. and NOPE there were 6 of you chasing a heavy typh, 3 of which were high about 20k circling the base when I came in. would you like me to post the gangbang and look foolish? you got 1 pick on me the other day at 62 in which I did reply good shot. Stats dont tell gangbangs remember. 1 guy porking is a far cry from what your saying. maybe I should of asked 50 other guys to come with me and plow the town...that would of been more of an ALL COST sortie.
4) Anyone who lies and says they have never once been at a huge advantage and shot at anything with a red icon can stop posting all toether.
Tral, that was 1 proxie and 2 kills in the same sortie, I refueled and waited for your return, the last return, there were other cons there on the way to the v bases, 2 sqaudies were there because I told them I just got the proxie on you, and that you would come back since there was 1 tent left,,,, and you did.. I landed 3 kills all from you.
But you got it at all cost, which I would have done, you were trying to keep the troops disabled, we quickly resupplied and had them back up faster than you could take them down.
I dont have film of it, but you can easily see that in the score page.
You should really think about leaving the RT. Why are u still there?
Agreed, it isn't about disrespecting them, its helping them understand that we understand as well, that as a community, TOGETHER, have to work at improving game play, participation, growth, for the benefit of the game, but do it with responsibility, where Everyone can enjoy the game, not dictated by a few that think someone elses game play is lame because THEY said so.
Change:its a daily part of our lives that at times can be hard to face
that as a community, TOGETHER, have to work at improving game play, participation, growth, for the benefit of the game, but do it with responsibility, where Everyone can enjoy the game, not dictated by a few
Change:its a daily part of our lives that at times can be hard to face
I just find it funny that there are people in this thread who think that mission planners should somehow know how many enemy planes will up to defend, then plan the mission accordingly...
Or maybe once they get to the enemy base, count how many enemy planes up to defend and send an appropriate number of friendlies home...
"C'mon guys.... I need eight volunteers to go home or bail out... Wouldn't want to be a horde here..." :rolleyes:
In your justification for defending detrimental game play / over kill missions to vbases & ports you appear to be contradicting yourself. You mention "hindsite" (kinda) in one paragraph and "potential resistance" in the other. So what your condoning is every mission should expect the worse and cater to that fact. Letting hindsite be the judge of things after the event. Do the words "reasonable deduction" strike a cord when pondering, if at all, the potential resistance? .....Comprehend?
So what are you asking? Here was my post.
"Dude", um if thats how you prefer, Any mission that you would consider to be overkill can only be justified upon arrival of a base, having too little to accomplish or too many to accomplish the goal in said mission can be dictated by the unknown. That unknown is dictated by the resistance encountered. So, high en site is 20/20, knowing if it was overkill is something determined after the fact.
Bases can be taken with as little as 1 to as many as infinite, its dictated by the resistance or potential of resistance of what may be encountered.
Point out again where you see any contridiction here. Its pretty clear to me. I will gladley explain it if your confused.
Any mission that you would consider to be overkill can only be justified upon arrival of a base, having too little to accomplish or too many to accomplish the goal in said mission can be dictated by the unknown. That unknown is dictated by the resistance encountered. So, high en site is 20/20, knowing if it was overkill is something determined after the fact.
I am mediocre to very bad in some areas of AH, but to improve on that is not why I play. Other priorities in real life matter to me more than improving my game play here. So I choose not to devote time-on-end to this. That's what I do with my $15. This is just a weekend hobby when I'm that damn bored.
using your Hitech example neither of us know what their thinking. So lets hypothesis. Say they do change something like making the mission planner have a maximum of 12 players per mission from any given field. What would you do then. Roll with the punches as in the case of ENY, split arenas, the same small maps for months on end. Would you adapt or just say "oh heck the games not fun anymore. I'm outta here"
LYNX, sadly they don't. They'll always have to "be correct".
When assessing prior to the attack one checks for dar bars at and around the intended target. For the most part, Yes. Having a dar bar or not does not prevent such an attack, it may determine the approach, but not a go/no go criteria.
One see's if friendly air or Gv's are already there. Usually NO, Sometimes Yes, but not a requirement either way.
One has a reasonable assessment of the potential resistance and caters for it. No. As stated below. At any time you can have 1 person up to defend or 50, you never will know.
Yet you wrote ....
"Any mission that you would consider to be overkill can only be justified upon arrival of a base, having too little to accomplish or too many to accomplish the goal in said mission can be dictated by the unknown. That unknown is dictated by the resistance encountered. So, high en site is 20/20, knowing if it was overkill is something determined after the fact.
Bases can be taken with as little as 1 to as many as infinite, its dictated by the resistance or potential of resistance of what may be encountered."
The contradiction lays here. I'm afraid hindsite , if I coulda, woulda, shoulda is not part of the equation when putting slots in a mission. Over kill missions are premeditated. The over kill mission has already assessed the potential resistance by means of reasonable deduction but sledge hammers the lightly defended base any way. Again...this is weak, skilless, lazy and a tad eastern block. It's land grabbing for the sake of it. These mission builders may as well host a LAN. They can at least be assured of no resistance as they troop merrily around having fun :rolleyes:
Do you not see this as poor game play? No.
No there is no way of knowing "how many", but thats suppose to be part of the fun. There is also common sense which a lot of these people show very little of. 20 guys for most bases, I'd take 25 for a large base. That is the max, bringing 50, AND hiding them in the trees the whole way is over kill, and lame.
20 guys means you have to co-ordinate, plan out the attack, and use some skill to take out what your assigned to take out, This make people more responsible... because the rest of the team is counting on them... so they strive to get better. Also there is no guaranty that your team will win, which adds excitement to the mission. You get a small touch of being in the war, the bit of the sweaty palm syndrome, your heart beats a bit faster the closer you get to battle. As corky jr says "...for just a couple minutes you loose your self in the game".
"They", can be a bit two sided, don't you think?
Fred
I hope I can ruin your fun more often. My satisfaction will be seeing you continue your rants on here for the next 20 yrs..... :rofl
Questions-Does HTC enable this so called bad game play by making it possible to have so many slots available in a planned mission? Would it change the behavior if HTC limited mission slots?It's not a gameplay problem, it's a mind set. you can't change natural human behavior no matter how hard u try.
Questions-Does HTC enable this so called bad game play by making it possible to have so many slots available in a planned mission? Would it change the behavior if HTC limited mission slots?
Not quibbling with you one bit on this one Suns, I agree about the mindset thing. My thought is that if HTC does not make these limits then they tacitly approve of said super horde missions.
No there is no way of knowing "how many", but thats suppose to be part of the fun. There is also common sense which a lot of these people show very little of. 20 guys for most bases, I'd take 25 for a large base. That is the max, bringing 50, AND hiding them in the trees the whole way is over kill, and lame.
20 guys means you have to co-ordinate, plan out the attack, and use some skill to take out what your assigned to take out, This make people more responsible... because the rest of the team is counting on them... so they strive to get better. Also there is no guaranty that your team will win, which adds excitement to the mission. You get a small touch of being in the war, the bit of the sweaty palm syndrome, your heart beats a bit faster the closer you get to battle. As corky jr says "...for just a couple minutes you loose your self in the game".
Of course many of you have no idea what I'm talking about, or think you do, but never have experienced it so your version is a pale substitute. As long as you hide in the horde you'll never know this type of fun because as a horde you really can't loose. Sure a bunch of you get sent to the tower, but "you did capture another base", good for you. If you stay in the horde, you'll never become anything more than mediocre at anything in the game. For those few of you that might read these "debates" and start thinking "I'll prove them wrong" and start learning more, practicing at things to get better, you'll find yourself getting to the "battle" and find you can't use those skills you worked so hard to build because the other 30+ guys in the mission flatten everything....again.
Thats when you'll finally step out of the horde. You'll know there is more that you can do in this game and you'll want to do it. The rest of us who have already done so await your revelation, for some of you there IS hope.
Not in this case. This thread is still continuing via the same stupidity and ignorance on Page 2. The same three squad members haven't begun to decipher fact from their own "fantasy".
But, please continue.
It's not a gameplay problem, it's a mind set. you can't change natural human behavior no matter how hard u try.The dweeb is strong with this one! Sunsfan - open your mind to the immense potential of acmlessness and absolutely indiscriminate field porking and steamrolling dorkness, to the ways of the horde! Now!! Repent your ways as an elitist bent on perfidious evangelism for so-called "balanced" and "quality" dogfights, and JOIN the might of our awesome amoebic land grabbing powers!! Renounce their subversive "fighting" agenda! Be ONE with the lemming hive mind, let it guide your joystick not with pretentious tacticism but with inspired stick stirs and negative G, spray and pray, and HO-rams for the gregarious good of your amoebic brethren! Do not burden yourself with SA but glide on blissfully uninterrupted parabolic trajectories from CV to field and deliver the horde's package to those damned Fighter Hangars!!
The dweeb is strong with this one! Sunsfan - open your mind to the immense potential of acmlessness and absolutely indiscriminate field porking and steamrolling dorkness, to the ways of the horde! Now!! Repent your ways as an elitist bent on perfidious evangelism for so-called "balanced" and "quality" dogfights, and JOIN the might of our amoebic and awesome land grabbing powers!! Renounce their subversive "fighting" agenda! Be ONE with the lemming hive mind, let them guide your joystick not with pretentious tacticism but with inspired stick stirs and negative G, spray and pray, and HO-rams for the gregarious good of your amoebic brethren!
The dweeb is strong with this one! Sunsfan - open your mind to the immense potential of acmlessness and absolutely indiscriminate field porking and steamrolling dorkness, to the ways of the horde! Now!! Repent your ways as an elitist bent on perfidious evangelism for so-called "balanced" and "quality" dogfights, and JOIN the might of our awesome amoebic land grabbing powers!! Renounce their subversive "fighting" agenda! Be ONE with the lemming hive mind, let it guide your joystick not with pretentious tacticism but with inspired stick stirs and negative G, spray and pray, and HO-rams for the gregarious good of your amoebic brethren! Do not burden yourself with SA but glide on blissfully uninterrupted parabolic trajectories from CV to field and deliver the horde's package to those damned Fighter Hangars!!
You consider this the real world?
Fred
I admit I was possessed by the evil spirit of unrepentant pwn, and by the grace of your shining example of tactical, strategic, and technical savvy, I now see the light! I will henceforth adress people whom I wish to Befriend and Sooth, or BS, by the title of Sir, because that changes everything.
I hate to say don't throw stones when you live in a glass house, sir I have been subjected too and witnessed too you zooming and picking off people when they clearly engaged on a 1v1 acm fight so don't sit there on a pedestal claiming your profound wisdom when it comes to this subject.
Why do you care?
Fred
Why do you care?
Fred
Take your entourage of pilots and go hit a base that you know will be defended. See what happens. Come back here and tell how THAT goes.
Take your entourage of pilots and go hit a base that you know will be defended. See what happens. Come back here and tell how THAT goes.
Theres several million bases on a large map, and you guys are complaining about a large group of people occasionally taking one of them??
Again the very vocal minority speaks and speaks and speaks.
Like a nagging wife,these guys won't shut up until you agree with them.
I know these same guys will ASSUME that I am part of these large groups that occasionally form, but I'm not.
I don't like being over run or going home with a pocket full of assists either.
But I don't see the problem being as large as they say.
The way these guys are talking, this "problem" is happening every 10 minutes. Its not.
The way these guys are talking, the community at large is unhappy with bases being over run occasionally. They're not.
There are many many other things in this game that are more annoying than one of my precious bases being over run by a bunch of people having fun.
I agree with the people who say, if you don't pay attention to the radar you will have a pretty good chance of being caught with your pants down.
If you're too "busy" to drop what you're doing to up and defend, thats too bad. Thats life.
If you're so worried about these base takes, you and ALLLLLL your buddies would pay a little more attention to the map.
From what I've been hearing, it would only take 2 or 3 of yas to squash the "skill less" horde. Then do it !!
I watch the map all the time, to me its part of the game.
I will up and investigate a flashing base.
I obviously can't investigate them all, but hey, it ain't life threatening.
Sometimes I catch em , sometimes i don't. No big deal, theres plenty to do on such large maps.
And PLEASE don't try playing the "avoiding combat" card on me.
Thats a crock.
You and I both know there are more guys avoiding fighting alot of other ways than there are guys that occasionally over run a base.
Thanks for incessantly pointing out that I'm not having fun and you could show me how to have "better" fun, but I'm all set thanks.
Well gotta go climb to 20k now so I can get picked off by some dweeb who's at 25k. :salute
I'm just saying that he seems to not really be involved in the whole mission horde thing anymore.
Been done many times, not only by RT but other squads as well just to prove that it can be done, even if defended as well. Missions were announced ahead of time for the benefit of defense.:lol system 200: we are hitting A12, with 59 tiffies.... :rofl
:lol system 200: we are hitting A12, with 59 tiffies.... :rofl
Tiffies are easy kills, I'd love to see that many at one base.
BS. Post a film or it never happened
What? The average guy won't up against that?
Blame the defender!
What? The average guy won't up against that?
Blame the defender!
I for one don't do anything but record all day looking for m00t............... DopusBut Sir
B/c If he him self sometimes deveates
I for one don't do anything but record all day looking for m00t............... Dopus
Tiffies are easy kills, I'd love to see that many at one base.
Why did your parents name you Dopus?
You lose.
Next, you Sirs will preatend that so-called ACM or SA would make any difference in such a situation,
or that it would enhence gameplay!
I'm deaply sorry but please dont cast stones in a glass house!!!
You rant about the skill level of the players, the type of engagements and so on but if anybody hold you accountable for your actions you spout jibberish, and you're right in that situation ACM or SA would not make any difference when people dweebly B&Z others that are engaged in a "turn fight" which is what everbody wants but the same people don't practise what they preach do they.What are u trying to prove? How would m00ts dweebieness effect yours? and if it doesn't effect you, why even bring it up?
I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy
Only you people can spell out what is and what is not, there is no other view point, well I don't think so!
I'll say this we don't talk out of both sides of our mouths unlike you people, you say this you do that " did you have a bad childhood or something"
I'll say this we don't talk out of both sides of our mouths unlike you people, you say this you do that " did you have a bad childhood or something"
What are u trying to prove? How would m00ts dweebieness effect yours? and if it doesn't effect you, why even bring it up?
You rant about the skill level of the players, the type of engagements and so on but if anybody hold you accountable for your actions you spout jibberish, and you're right in that situation ACM or SA would not make any difference when people dweebly B&Z others that are engaged in a "turn fight" which is what everbody wants but the same people don't practise what they preach do they.Let it all out Sir. I learn more in one of these posts than in any 50 page "debate".
I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy
Only you people can spell out what is and what is not, there is no other view point, well I don't think so!
I'll say this we don't talk out of both sides of our mouths unlike you people, you say this you do that " did you have a bad childhood or something"
You rant about the skill level of the players, the type of engagements and so on but if anybody hold you accountable for your actions you spout jibberish, and you're right in that situation ACM or SA would not make any difference when people dweebly B&Z others that are engaged in a "turn fight" which is what everbody wants but the same people don't practise what they preach do they.
I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy
Only you people can spell out what is and what is not, there is no other view point, well I don't think so!
I'll say this we don't talk out of both sides of our mouths unlike you people, you say this you do that " did you have a bad childhood or something"
You guys take bases with half that amount,...6/110's 3 niks,and 2 goons???Well congrats ,and good thing you did not have any resistance..
I put 15 slots for 110's in my missions,I put 10 slots for fighters,and 4 goons,I do not see where that is horrible..I want the town down as FAST as possible,I dont want to sit there and "FONDLE" it..I want it DOWN,and so do the people who are with me,..
You want to see A 50 man mission???? that would be the one with 190a8's,when eny has gone through the roof,literally,,and is over 25..
ANd tral I never said that 12 110's missions were a challenge to me,you put words in my mouth..but I want to be sure when I launch a mission for a particular target,that it goes down the way it is supposed too..and that is that it gets captured..
Few pages ago, you were whining that its hard to take a base with only 12 110s, 6 nikis and 4 goons. **Again count 22**. Why is it that these "mega squads" that can average 20 with a scrolly bar filled on the roster feel the need to post public missions on country?
When I post a mission it averages about 20...TO some that is a "HORDE".
When A mission is posted for a base,one never knows how many will be there to counter it..Sometimes there are not any at all,sometimes there are 15+ defending from a mission..Does not matter if it is a base on the front-lines,or a base out of the way..
We took A9 a few days ago that had LOTS of rooks flying in and out of it...We fought at V10 for hourse before finally taking it after taking A9...There were at least 20 defenders at V10..And they got lots of kills,and so did we,and yet not ONE of them has replied to the post I posted when I asked if it was not fun??? I know they had a blast,just as we did trying to take it.
So why wont they respond about it???I feel they are trying to keep a negative light on missions,and God-Forbid someone would actually say they had fun fighting a mission of the sort that they constantly complain about..
WHy do the furballers care if bases are taken???I dont mean bases which affect your furballing,although sometimes this is the case,but why do you insist that another side taking bases is detrimental to game-play??DO you guys,who have been playing this game much longer than others,really run out of people to fight when missions are going on???
I mean if all of a sudden bish dropped of the radar,you always have nits to hit.This statement applies bish,nits,or rooks...It is a 3 sided game.You will never run out of people to shoot down..
SO why is taking bases With as many or as few people as is in any respective mission so detrimental to YOUR gameplay???
On a large map,hundreds of bases,and you are going to get upset when a mission takes one??And then really get upset that the mission took a base that is not even close to where you are getting your action from??
If it is not a big deal,taking bases as many of you furballers and ACM guys claim,then why the outcry for CHANGE!!!!!!!!!
It may be because you up at the base to defend,and get killed,or maybe others on your side are not helping so you get frustrated..I really dont know..Not every mission takes the base.I have seen missions from all 3 sides with HUGE NUMBERS not take a base,so your argument that ONLY numbers take a base is wrong..It helps,but it guarantees nothing.
Evidently there are numerous people on ALL 3 sides which TAKE BASEs WITH MISSIONS,and I just bet,that when a mission on your side takes a base,you are just as happy as any other side which takes bases also..
This "HORDE" mission that you guys speak of is not the 50 man mission you guys so proudly speak of..
When I post a mission it averages about 20...TO some that is a "HORDE".to some it is only a "HORDE" if the defenders which up do not equal the same which are in the mission.
So,evidently all 3 sides feel the need to take bases.Because it is movement,it stops stagnation in an area,which does happen..it opens up new avenues for furballers,gv'ers and bombers,and mission planners on ALL 3 sides,this is why base-taking is good for gameplay.Wheteher it is done NOE,or at ALT...
Why is it whenever a CV pulls up next to an enemy base,the first thing that starts happening,after the initial 5-10 min FB,the other team starts trying to kill the CV??
I know why,because if left alone,eventually the side with the CV would attempt to take the base..And more than likely,it is 99% of the reason the CV is there..The furballs are fun with CV's by enemy bases,but they do come to an end by any of the 3 sides which are represented in the game,and it is understood that it is usually proper to KILL the cv before it can take the base..
One see's if friendly air or Gv's are already there. Usually NO, Sometimes Yes, but not a requirement either way. "usually NO"... forgive me for what you may perceive as a slap in the face but that smacks of poor planning, unless you have 15, 20 or 30 blokes at hand and just want to throw them at something.
IMO, As for the example mission used its not poor game play, the poor thing about it is the poor use of the resources in that mission. I am not defending the action of all those guys hitting the V-Base only, I am identifying the fact that the mission planner did not use what he had in the mission properly. semantics my dear fellow. Poor planning = poor game play does it not?
As for what is perceived as an over kill mission, because any mission could be perceived or has a potential of being as seen as overkill, I have stated that they are determined to be over kill after the mission arrives depending on the probability of resistance they may encounter. All it would take is for someone to spot an NOE or an inbound mission and the resistance will escalate, so that probability or potential of a response in escalation is what has to be factored. Honestly we can argue "if I woulda shoulda coulda" all day long. What your advocating here is maximum numbers even if the probability of resistance is low. A quick scan of the map is all that's needed for a reasonable assessment.
I have ran missions myself and have seen it done many times before where the intent was to have a few bombers or fighters and once it was posted more than needed were joining, determind by how many slots you allocate
But by modifying the mission so that all 20 people hit multiple bases or dictate roles that would further use those assets that would not be wasted on a v base as this example illustrates is the key. EXACTLY.
I hope this clarifies it a bit.
Just wait.
THIS^^^ is in response to the short term memory loss when you say THIS:
Few pages ago, you were whining that its hard to take a base with only 12 110s, 6 nikis and 4 goons. **Again count 22**. Why is it that these "mega squads" that can average 20 with a scrolly bar filled on the roster feel the need to post public missions on country?
You as the CO, if base taking is "the thing to do" with your squad..so be it..have fun. Do it as a squad. I dont know if you do what you do thinking that the other "teams" pop blood vessles and shake fists whenever you take a base, in reality..half the time they dont even care that you did.
The worry here and though your too thickheaded and stubborn to realize is that you are poisoning minds on new guys that me in. Imagine what a game it would be and how fast it would be shut down if thats all that countries did was have a race to reset the maps. Rooks, nits and bish all racing to attack undefended feilds ALL seeking that reset "high". I sure as %^$% would cancel my account very rapidly.
V10 was about 15 minutes not hours. A9 was hours. I got there from 51 and made a few passes and then it was captured. The problem with V10 was the overwhelming force that was used.... It a vehicle base ! Common sense would tell you the only air support that could come would be from 51. You didn't need that force.
The point I keep trying to make here is just be honest with your self,
Falcon told me that the fight had been going on for 5 hours, I don't know, I logged in a few minutes before A9 fell and saw the stupidity at A10.
Thndregg
I've seen the powers to be change things over the past....to curb game play issues and of cause to preserve and expand upon their revenue.
ENY was brought in to kerb the Sunday RJO's (rook joint opporations). It all got a bit silly when Rooks on a Sunday would have as many players as Bish and Knights put together. Defectors for want of a better word would switch to the winning side (rooks) on the Sunday. ENY did what it was developed to do and RJO's are a thing of the past.
25% fuel porkage is also a thing of the past. So as to keep the fight going I presume.
Acks, ammo's barracks were increased presumably to stop one guy porking a whole field or a string of front line fields. This in my opinion is the single most factor that gives us the base taking hoards of today but that's besides the point. It's done. The monster is unleashed.
Split arenas. To kerb game play issues. "slum behaviour" I think they termed it. This actually and with some help from TV advertising increased subscriber's. Strange ?
Small maps for months on end. Presumably to localise the fighting.
Anyways you get the point. HTC is on the ball where game play and revenue are concerned. Here's the kicker. All of those changes have affected each and every one of us. Some folk have quit the game because of these changes. Many have rolled with the punches so's to speak.
I've asked this question of you twice with no response. Giving you the benefit of doubt I'll ask again............
Say they do change something like making the mission planner have a maximum of 12 players per mission from any given field. What would you do then. Roll with the punches as in the case of ENY, split arenas, the same small maps for months on end. Would you adapt or just say "oh heck the games not fun anymore. I'm outta here"
Would you care to comment?
After last night watching your squaddie DREDger lead the charge in taking all of the center islands. Which he has done time and time again, because he enjoys ruining other people's fun. One must ask themselves, "What are we really trying to achieve?"
After last night watching your squaddie DREDger lead the charge in taking all of the center islands. Which he has done time and time again, because he enjoys ruining other people's fun. One must ask themselves, "What are we really trying to achieve?"
Like he stated before, WE ARE NOT ALL IN THE MISSION.
The second bold part is they dont, your "the world is gonna end" promises are not going to scare anyone to believing that its as bad as some of you paint it out to be. Would they do something if it were? Yes.
But for the simple few of you that continually and admittedly for 20 years :lol think the world evolves around your style of play alone and what you consider to be good or bad play is ludicrous.
I didnt want to say this, but your out right lying. You already admitted you were not there, period. For the 8+ hours that I was there the entire time and that you recently had logged in as it was being captured, there were multiple attacks on that base, hangers taken down several times, cv attacked it, etc. etc. both bases were equally defended by air and GV's, both of those bases were attacked and were heavily defended. But you wouldnt know that, since you were not there. Your credibility sir is wearing thin.
How about starting with YOU :O
:rofl
Say they do change something like making the mission planner have a maximum of 12 players per mission from any given field. What would you do then. Roll with the punches as in the case of ENY, split arenas, the same small maps for months on end. Would you adapt or just say "oh heck the games not fun anymore. I'm outta here.
After last night watching your squaddie DREDger lead the charge in taking all of the center islands. Which he has done time and time again, because he enjoys ruining other people's fun. One must ask themselves, "What are we really trying to achieve?"
I believe there is some incorrect information working its way into this conversation.
The fight had been going on over A9, V10, and the Bishop CV for hours. The furball formed early in the day when a very small mission attempted to take V10 and failed. Throughout the day, A9 and V10 had been bombed closed several times. Also, the Bishop CV had been sunk several times.
There was no mission posted to take V10 when it finally fell. A9 had been taken and a number of Bishop players spawned in on the ground to V10. I was one of them. I killed 2 defenders before being killed myself.
So, essentially, the fight at A9 and then V10 was merely a protracted fight that had begun much much earlier in the day. It was essentially the taking of a defended pair of bases. Because of said defense, it took about eight hours.
Is the issue here that the furball died when the bases were taken? The way I see it, the furball went on for hours. Much much longer then most. Most furballs are born out of missions that fail, you know. Are you (Fugitive) arguing that all missions should be designed to fail, so a furball will form? Or is the issue that Falcon tweaked your nose in the game when you got all butt hurt that the base fell right as you got there?
People keep going back to the "HUGE" mission that took V10, which is pretty funny really. Since there wasn't a mission to take it at all.
You know, I can see the side of the argument that doesn't like big NOE missions that are designed to roll over a base without opposition. If I'm in a mission, I like it when the enemy ups ot defend. But you know what, I don't believe that there are nearly as many big NOE missions going on as there were just a few months ago. And not nearly enough of them to seriously impact gameplay in a macro sense. This is all, much ado about nothing really.
Something else that I think is being totally overlooked here is that large country missions have a place in the social structure of the game. I was a new player about a year or so ago (maybe a bit longer). First time I logged on, I was randomly placed on the Knights. This isn't my first flight combat game, so I wasn't totally helpless (just mostly helpless, much like i am today)... I played for a couple hours. I was totally unimpressed with the way I was treated by my so-called "team-mates". So, I switched countries to see if it was any different on the other side. Just so happens, I switched to Bishop. Somebody was advertising that a mission was forming so I joined, to check it out. Guess what. I had fun. It was fun to be part of something. It was good to be able to follow somebodies else lead for a little while. I didn't really know what I was doing, so I followed and paid attention.
I continued to join missions. Learning all the time. Getting to know people a little. Getting contact and experience I never would have gotten outside the missions. Was I learning ACM by joining missions? Nope. I was learning the GAME. Only after I was hooked on THE GAME, did I have enough interest to start learning how to use my airplane correctly. If it hadn't been for those missions, I probably wouldn't have given AH2 enough of a chance to catch my interest. Then I was invited to fly with RT for a couple of weeks, that's when I really got hooked on AH2. Great bunch of guys, spend a large part of my AH2 time laughing at what is going on over dquad vox. I'm sure most of you can say the same about your squad.
Now, what happens if all the sudden only the smaller missions are allowed? Say HTC comes up with a way to prevent large missions. Would open country missions die? Probably... If I can only have a set number of folks in a mission, I'm going to take people who I think are good pilots. Not noobs... So, you'll have a bunch of new players who get ZERO guidence early in their gaming experience. In fact, their gaming experience is going to consist mostly of getting picked by all you experienced guys until they get frustrated, bored, and then quit the game. Guess what, the game will die. Without a constant influx of noobs, AH2 will go away. Large missions are necessary to assure the inclusion of new players. I think HiTech knows it. Maybe he doesn't like it, maybe that's part of what he was trying to accomplish with CT. Some alternative way to work new players into the system. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it's irrelevant now. CT is dead. For better or worse, this is the game we have.
My advice, to those of you who keep moaning over the supposed degradation of game play... Quit berating anyone who doesn't play the way that you think is best. Quit whining and start contributing new ideas. Ideas that will help work the new guys into the system in a FUN way. If you don't want large missions (you're also going to be ruling out open country missions), figure out something productive then to keep the game moving, keep the player base growing. And no, simply forcing them into the TA for X amount of time before they can log into the MA won't work. The Training Corps isn't large enough or organized in a way that could handle that. Get your egos out of the forums and off of channel 200. You aren't changing anything by being tools to anyone who plays differently than you.
I say, if you're all worried about improving game play, do something about it. Imagine the difference it would make if the experienced "elite" squads made a concerted effort to "adopt" a few new guys EVERY tour. Teach them ACM. Teach them what they need to know. Open the doors to your elite halls and let a noob in once in awhile. Quit crying over the degrading state of the game.
Maybe the answer is that every single squad, as payment for its continued existance be required to take on X number of new players (placed in the squad automatically without the squad having any choice in the selection. At the end of the tour, the new guys are asked to fill out a quick survey to determine whether or not the squad is doing its duty in training new players. If the squad gets failing marks, then it is disbanded and all squad members are banned from joining another squad for X amount of time. I get tired of so much complaining about the state of "game play", when so few of you do anything even remotely substantive to actually contribute. Sure, I'll bet you all assuage your conscience by telling yourself, "I'll help anyone who asks." Big whoop! Make an effort to actually go out there and FIND somebody who needs help. Then after you get him off on the right track. DO IT AGAIN! It should be an ongoing process that never ends. Imagine what would happen if 100 more experienced players each helped 1 new guy per tour. I mean take the new guy to the TA/DA for a couple hours a week. Imagine what would happen. And it doesn't have to be 100 Trainer Corps qualified players... Just people who know a little ACM. You wouldn't have to make each noob into a terror of the skies, just somebody who can survive for a little while in the MA.
Unless you are willing to actually do something about it, you shouldn't be in here whining about the state of game play today.
Whatever... That's all I have to say at the moment. Take it for what it's worth.
Karaya! Quite frankly you suprise me. I'll tell you what "WE" are really trying to achieve here. You are trying to relive an old Tank Town argument with Dredger through me. I'll tell you now I take exception to it. For someone who many times has said he's a straight talker...spades a spades ethos, you let yourself down.
Why you chose to quote my straight forward question to thndregg, without letting him answer, then putting this spiel (quoted above) to it shows me you haven't been following the thread, or you're myopic. One of the two.
Putting this aside I'll take a moment to explain a few things to you. Dredger mission don't contain...
Low level Lancaster's.
Suiciding CV bombers.
Bomb and bailers.
Auguring rinse & repeat porkers.
They are not overkill missions.
95% of his missions don't include hanger banging.
Rarity if the mission contains more than 15 which includes a c47 or 2.
Karaya you'd do best by letting Thndrgg answer the question and take up any petty beef you have with Dredger directly.
:aok
Bravo Dave!
Karaya you'd do best by letting Thndrgg answer the question and take up any petty beef you have with Dredger directly.
Your so high and mighty about jumping in just to argue!
A9 is the airfield on the south side of the island where the fight had been going on for ever, V10 is the Vehicle base on the north side of the island that didn't get going untill A9 was finished. I logged in and upped A9 in a spit, and barely got my wheels up before I was killed, then the base was captured. I upped A51 in a pony and went strait to V10 because that is the next logical place to fight. That is where I ran into the "stupidity" I saw. Dive bombing lanc, stick stirring Chogs that have no other move than the HO, making 3 guys over shoot my pony at the same time because they have no clue how to fly, and the biggest of all, more than 20 people to take a vehicle base.
Ask FALCON for the screen shot of the one a minute before the one he posted where he stated he was tired of the FB so he made a mission. HE dictated a way to play the game, not me. Everything I posted was what HE told me up until the capture of A9, I witnessed the rest. So I'm NOT lying, I'm just repeating what I was told.
I'm brutally honest, I call it as I see it. Do I vulch yes I do! Do I dive in to a fight with out asking, no I don't, Do I bomb HQs and factories, Yes I do, but not often, towns are closer, and more often than not someone will try to shoot you down there. Do I HO? nope. DO I bomb and bail? Nope I always try to RTB, in my fighters as well.
You keep saying we talk about changing everyone to "our game play" If that were the case we would be looking to get rid of the GVs, and the heavy bombers. All us fighter types need are fighter type planes. No we are talking about.....wait for it..... LAME GAME PLAY!
Heres that list I posted way back again....
* HOs lame
* dive bombing lancs lame or any heavy bomber
* running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame
* spawn camping lame
* being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame
* suicide dive bombers lame
* bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame
* hiding captured CVs lame
Can you honestly say that all those things on that list ARE NOT LAME?
Do you see anywhere on that list capturing bases?... running missions?... working together with your squad?.... saving your "country" from the evil empire?
Again, this is NOT a BISH problem, its an Aces High COMMUNITY problem. There is lame play on all sides. I call it out when I see Rooks doing it, do you when you see your teamates do it, or do you just join in?
And fugi,the list you post is what every side does.IN a perfect world I suppose they would never happen,but since it isnt,we just have to deal with them..I dont find those a deal-breaker on if I play AH or not..
I am not a babysitter in-game,and dont try to tell people how to play it the way they want too..If someone is dry spawning troops into a field bish want to capture,it is not my place to tell them to stop. I am not going around monitoring people who HO...Or anything else on that list..
It really is amazing how little of this you really understand. :frown:
Any winners yet?Y of course.....the winners are the ones who eventually evolve beyond being Lemming tardlings and learn that flying with 8+ others to cover their incompetent abilities in the monkeyhumping horde is ruining the fun of most everyone else........
And again the excuse comes through..... Well they do it !!!
If you don't do it, thats one
If you stop your squad from doing it, thats another 60
If you help stop the bishops from doing it, thats another 2000-3000 !
It has to start someplace. I work on it as a Rook, and try to spread the word here on the boards.
You can either man up and help clear up the problem, or you can be part of the problem, as always, its up to you.
Trawled or should that be trolled through 29 pages :O -Kev, I disagree.
Had a feeling that would come as an answer to Falcons post.
Same self appointed AH police with their "if you don't play the game my way, you're wrong".
Guess what - No-ones way of playing the game is more or less valid than ANYONE elses, including yours.
Is AH perfect - No.
Does HT fix what he considers problems - Yes, these problems you perceive existed in 2004 when I joined, guess what - they are still here.
Just remember one thing - All the players you are so fond of ridiculing contribute towards HT's funding for continued development of the game. Then again I guess you'd be more than happy if AH went back to what it was 10 years ago.
I will be returning to AH sometime in May, and I will play the game the way I WANT TO.
Not to yours, or anyone elses view of how they think it should be played.
@Tequilachaser - Disagree, the game is not all about learning ACM/BFM or anything else for that matter, it's about HAVING FUN!
Your whole elders / pillars part of your post really shows just how arrogant and self righteous your small minority is. It about FUN, whether thats furballing, GV'ing, buffs or however the person get his jollies, your way is not the be all and end all of AH.
Flame away
I don't get it yet.
Trawled or should that be trolled through 29 pages :O -SIr that is totally right, nothing to gain from ACM SA BFWHATEVER! Fun is crashing on take off, HOing, ramming, spraying ammo and capturing bases with mass troop dropps, yes sir! No fun in surivivng, I give my heart of a SEAL life for my buddies everytime I take out a plane thats the only way to have fun, aint gon be no one to tell me otherwise cause its my 15$! Yestrday this gyu was taking forever to finish his fight so I was like come on do it do it, and he wouldnt do it so i flew in front of him and emptyed my ammo on dat red sucker and he blew up good after barely 5 seconds of hits, and after that the green guy was flying without his tail, he was so mad that he probably yank his stick doing fancy ACM and broke his tail off on ehis own! Vets are crazy!!
Had a feeling that would come as an answer to Falcons post.
Same self appointed AH police with their "if you don't play the game my way, you're wrong".
Guess what - No-ones way of playing the game is more or less valid than ANYONE elses, including yours.
Is AH perfect - No.
Does HT fix what he considers problems - Yes, these problems you perceive existed in 2004 when I joined, guess what - they are still here.
Just remember one thing - All the players you are so fond of ridiculing contribute towards HT's funding for continued development of the game. Then again I guess you'd be more than happy if AH went back to what it was 10 years ago.
I will be returning to AH sometime in May, and I will play the game the way I WANT TO.
Not to yours, or anyone elses view of how they think it should be played.
@Tequilachaser - Disagree, the game is not all about learning ACM/BFM or anything else for that matter, it's about HAVING FUN!
Your whole elders / pillars part of your post really shows just how arrogant and self righteous your small minority is. It about FUN, whether thats furballing, GV'ing, buffs or however the person get his jollies, your way is not the be all and end all of AH.
Flame away
"Funny how you seem to take every little thing that happens in the game as a deliberate attempt to piss you off, I think you over estimate your own importance."Where the hell did you pull this one out of ??
"I'm sorry, it most definately is a "PLAY THE GAME MY WAY OR YOUR WRONG" standpoint. Thats obvious from the content of the majority of posts in this thread. May not come out and explicity state that, but thats most definately the tone. "In your head maybe. Check your eyes for dirt.
"People don't sit around in the tower watching the map thinking, hmmm theres a furball I'd better go and kill it off. Talk about a persecution complex, lol."
My point was your views that ACM etc are the be end and end all of AH is your point of view, not right, not wrong, just your point of view.That right there's BS. ACM/SA/etc are the building blocks of air combat, which is precisely what the game's all about. It's the one common point between anyone that plays this game, whether they're the old friends BSing totally drunk on a late evening after work, or they're naive noobs to warbirds who cream their pants just flying formation in their fav plane, or whether they're playing the game just for the competitive aspect, or whether they get their socks off purely from the tactical/strategic riddle-solving aspects... It's all centered around air combat. So yes, in fact, the building blocks of air combat are the be all end all of AH, if there ever was one. Which no one but guys like you have ever pretended.. When I log on I don't start spamming the channel with armchair general all-caps directives.. I've never pretended anything was the be-all end-all in the game. Only guys like you want to pretend it's our intention. It's a convenient straw man.
Trawled or should that be trolled through 29 pages :O -
Had a feeling that would come as an answer to Falcons post.
Same self appointed AH police with their "if you don't play the game my way, you're wrong".
Guess what - No-ones way of playing the game is more or less valid than ANYONE elses, including yours.
Is AH perfect - No.
Does HT fix what he considers problems - Yes, these problems you perceive existed in 2004 when I joined, guess what - they are still here.
Just remember one thing - All the players you are so fond of ridiculing contribute towards HT's funding for continued development of the game. Then again I guess you'd be more than happy if AH went back to what it was 10 years ago.
I will be returning to AH sometime in May, and I will play the game the way I WANT TO.
Not to yours, or anyone elses view of how they think it should be played.
@Tequilachaser - Disagree, the game is not all about learning ACM/BFM or anything else for that matter, it's about HAVING FUN!
Your whole elders / pillars part of your post really shows just how arrogant and self righteous your small minority is. It about FUN, whether thats furballing, GV'ing, buffs or however the person get his jollies, your way is not the be all and end all of AH.
Flame away
@Tequilachaser - Disagree, the game is not all about learning ACM/BFM or anything else for that matter, it's about HAVING FUN!
Your whole elders / pillars part of your post really shows just how arrogant and self righteous your small minority is.
the ones who evolve and see the light of ACES HIGH, that learn that fair gameplay, good sportsmanship, Good etiquette, and participating in all the different special events , tournaments, scenarios that Aces High has to offer........or even learning proper BFM/ACM mechanics and then paying this help one has received forward to other newcomers of this community is what it really is all about.....
when that lightbulb switch flips on in their heads, and they understand what all their elders / pillars before them have repeated continously without exhaustion of what should be expected of them..........this is how "this" community should be molded.....this is how it was molded in the past............and by God, this will be how it is going to be molded in the future........
Kev BTW... Tell me, was it elitism everytime I've gone to the TA/DA with all sorts of players who wanted to get better at the game? Do you think that was because they wanted to have less fun out of it? Cause one of em was Falcon23.. Maybe you could talk to him about being such an elitist blow hard, for having the gall to try and improve his game? Surely he must be out of his mind if he sees some corelation between fun and actually being able to do what the game was meant for - air combat? How dare he take at face value the offer from some player like me to help him out?
Your argument is totally bogus. I do all the game has to offer.. Vulch, strat/tactical play on the ground and in the air, team work, lone wolfing, historical setups, BSing with squaddies to the point of missing opportunities for good fights, playing as cover for the hordes' massive bomber missions, or flying as a goon or Me110 in the NOE raids...
That right there's BS. ACM/SA/etc are the building blocks of air combat, which is precisely what the game's all about. It's the one common point between anyone that plays this game, whether they're the old friends BSing totally drunk on a late evening after work, or they're naive noobs to warbirds who cream their pants just flying formation in their fav plane, or whether they're playing the game just for the competitive aspect, or whether they get their socks off purely from the tactical/strategic riddle-solving aspects... It's all centered around air combat. So yes, in fact, the building blocks of air combat are the be all end all of AH, if there ever was one. Which no one but guys like you have ever pretended.. When I log on I don't start spamming the channel with armchair general all-caps directives.. I've never pretended anything was the be-all end-all in the game. Only guys like you want to pretend it's our intention. It's a convenient straw man.
I believe there is some incorrect information working its way into this conversation.logged on yesterday for a 20 min stint...found a base with many enemies...upped off the runway....looked up and saw no less than 7 tiffs hovering the lopsided fight...6 ponies....and spits hurri's f4u's and zekes abound....tried to get wheels up and was HO'd on the runway by a hog....still got off the runway and was immediately jumped by 3 ponies and a tiff coming in at 550.....after a few reversals...was HOd by a jug and crashed...
The fight had been going on over A9, V10, and the Bishop CV for hours. The furball formed early in the day when a very small mission attempted to take V10 and failed. Throughout the day, A9 and V10 had been bombed closed several times. Also, the Bishop CV had been sunk several times.
There was no mission posted to take V10 when it finally fell. A9 had been taken and a number of Bishop players spawned in on the ground to V10. I was one of them. I killed 2 defenders before being killed myself.
So, essentially, the fight at A9 and then V10 was merely a protracted fight that had begun much much earlier in the day. It was essentially the taking of a defended pair of bases. Because of said defense, it took about eight hours.
Is the issue here that the furball died when the bases were taken? The way I see it, the furball went on for hours. Much much longer then most. Most furballs are born out of missions that fail, you know. Are you (Fugitive) arguing that all missions should be designed to fail, so a furball will form? Or is the issue that Falcon tweaked your nose in the game when you got all butt hurt that the base fell right as you got there?
People keep going back to the "HUGE" mission that took V10, which is pretty funny really. Since there wasn't a mission to take it at all.
You know, I can see the side of the argument that doesn't like big NOE missions that are designed to roll over a base without opposition. If I'm in a mission, I like it when the enemy ups ot defend. But you know what, I don't believe that there are nearly as many big NOE missions going on as there were just a few months ago. And not nearly enough of them to seriously impact gameplay in a macro sense. This is all, much ado about nothing really.
Something else that I think is being totally overlooked here is that large country missions have a place in the social structure of the game. I was a new player about a year or so ago (maybe a bit longer). First time I logged on, I was randomly placed on the Knights. This isn't my first flight combat game, so I wasn't totally helpless (just mostly helpless, much like i am today)... I played for a couple hours. I was totally unimpressed with the way I was treated by my so-called "team-mates". So, I switched countries to see if it was any different on the other side. Just so happens, I switched to Bishop. Somebody was advertising that a mission was forming so I joined, to check it out. Guess what. I had fun. It was fun to be part of something. It was good to be able to follow somebodies else lead for a little while. I didn't really know what I was doing, so I followed and paid attention.
I continued to join missions. Learning all the time. Getting to know people a little. Getting contact and experience I never would have gotten outside the missions. Was I learning ACM by joining missions? Nope. I was learning the GAME. Only after I was hooked on THE GAME, did I have enough interest to start learning how to use my airplane correctly. If it hadn't been for those missions, I probably wouldn't have given AH2 enough of a chance to catch my interest. Then I was invited to fly with RT for a couple of weeks, that's when I really got hooked on AH2. Great bunch of guys, spend a large part of my AH2 time laughing at what is going on over dquad vox. I'm sure most of you can say the same about your squad.
Now, what happens if all the sudden only the smaller missions are allowed? Say HTC comes up with a way to prevent large missions. Would open country missions die? Probably... If I can only have a set number of folks in a mission, I'm going to take people who I think are good pilots. Not noobs... So, you'll have a bunch of new players who get ZERO guidence early in their gaming experience. In fact, their gaming experience is going to consist mostly of getting picked by all you experienced guys until they get frustrated, bored, and then quit the game. Guess what, the game will die. Without a constant influx of noobs, AH2 will go away. Large missions are necessary to assure the inclusion of new players. I think HiTech knows it. Maybe he doesn't like it, maybe that's part of what he was trying to accomplish with CT. Some alternative way to work new players into the system. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it's irrelevant now. CT is dead. For better or worse, this is the game we have.
My advice, to those of you who keep moaning over the supposed degradation of game play... Quit berating anyone who doesn't play the way that you think is best. Quit whining and start contributing new ideas. Ideas that will help work the new guys into the system in a FUN way. If you don't want large missions (you're also going to be ruling out open country missions), figure out something productive then to keep the game moving, keep the player base growing. And no, simply forcing them into the TA for X amount of time before they can log into the MA won't work. The Training Corps isn't large enough or organized in a way that could handle that. Get your egos out of the forums and off of channel 200. You aren't changing anything by being tools to anyone who plays differently than you.
I say, if you're all worried about improving game play, do something about it. Imagine the difference it would make if the experienced "elite" squads made a concerted effort to "adopt" a few new guys EVERY tour. Teach them ACM. Teach them what they need to know. Open the doors to your elite halls and let a noob in once in awhile. Quit crying over the degrading state of the game.
Maybe the answer is that every single squad, as payment for its continued existance be required to take on X number of new players (placed in the squad automatically without the squad having any choice in the selection. At the end of the tour, the new guys are asked to fill out a quick survey to determine whether or not the squad is doing its duty in training new players. If the squad gets failing marks, then it is disbanded and all squad members are banned from joining another squad for X amount of time. I get tired of so much complaining about the state of "game play", when so few of you do anything even remotely substantive to actually contribute. Sure, I'll bet you all assuage your conscience by telling yourself, "I'll help anyone who asks." Big whoop! Make an effort to actually go out there and FIND somebody who needs help. Then after you get him off on the right track. DO IT AGAIN! It should be an ongoing process that never ends. Imagine what would happen if 100 more experienced players each helped 1 new guy per tour. I mean take the new guy to the TA/DA for a couple hours a week. Imagine what would happen. And it doesn't have to be 100 Trainer Corps qualified players... Just people who know a little ACM. You wouldn't have to make each noob into a terror of the skies, just somebody who can survive for a little while in the MA.
Unless you are willing to actually do something about it, you shouldn't be in here whining about the state of game play today.
Whatever... That's all I have to say at the moment. Take it for what it's worth.
For you the game is all about air combat. [...]Uh duh.... The point is obviously that you're supposed to fight in the game, whether that's
on the ground [or] in the air [etc]You haven't read my reply to your previous post anymore than you've read this thread or the ones preceding and leading to it, and so you're nowhere near impartial and informed here when you jump right in telling some guys that they're imposing on others that they play their way... The simple fact is that the fun in this game is from playing it... The same way it's more fun to play soccer when you're able to hit the ball where you mean to or have the stamina to play longer. And the rest of the argument follows, that there's nothing elitist in spreading knowledge about what tactics work and which ones don't, and making players better so that they don't resort to crappy substitutes for gameplay like bomb&bail or stick stirring or spray and pray, or so that they don't run from fights that they could enjoy 100% of their potential fun if only they knew e.g. how to maneuver right.
Not everyone apparently plays the game to become a virtual elite pilot, some just want to log on and have fun.
I am not a babysitter in-game,and dont try to tell people how to play it the way they want too..If someone is dry spawning troops into a field bish want to capture,it is not my place to tell them to stop. I am not going around monitoring people who HO...Or anything else on that list..
Not really hard to understand...
Fly the way that the Uber-stick gods of AHII deem appropriate or become a Dweeb, Noob, Ho-Tard, Tardlet or whatever else they can think of calling you on 200 while simultaneously thumping their chests and receiving accolades from their little minions...
Trawled or should that be trolled through 29 pages :O -
Had a feeling that would come as an answer to Falcons post.
Same self appointed AH police with their "if you don't play the game my way, you're wrong".
Guess what - No-ones way of playing the game is more or less valid than ANYONE elses, including yours.
Is AH perfect - No.
Does HT fix what he considers problems - Yes, these problems you perceive existed in 2004 when I joined, guess what - they are still here.
Just remember one thing - All the players you are so fond of ridiculing contribute towards HT's funding for continued development of the game. Then again I guess you'd be more than happy if AH went back to what it was 10 years ago.
I will be returning to AH sometime in May, and I will play the game the way I WANT TO.
Not to yours, or anyone elses view of how they think it should be played.
@Tequilachaser - Disagree, the game is not all about learning ACM/BFM or anything else for that matter, it's about HAVING FUN!How can it be fun when you take the time to climb up over your base to defend and the buffs all bail after dropping their loads? How can it be fun when your squad gets together to defend a base and the 6 or 7 of you are rolled over by 20-30 enemy horde that comes in? How can it be fun to re up 4 and 5 times to finally beat back an attack, and as you wait for the next wave <--- an old term used to define the follow-up attack on a base......you see the base 4 sectors over start flashing, its the guys you beat back, running an NOE for a free base?
Your whole elders / pillars part of your post really shows just how arrogant and self righteous your small minority is. It about FUN, whether thats furballing, GV'ing, buffs or however the person get his jollies, your way is not the be all and end all of AH.
Flame away
My answer is a little ways back.
I don't necessarily need the mission planner. And no, I wouldn't quit. The comradery I've enjoyed with the BOPs over the past 5 years is priceless. I don't soley put missions together as my mainstay in this game. I'm also not at all apprehensive about throwing missions together with less than uber planes. Those actually are the most fun.
Not really hard to understand...
Fly the way that the Uber-stick gods of AHII deem appropriate or become a Dweeb, Noob, Ho-Tard, Tardlet or whatever else they can think of calling you on 200 while simultaneously thumping their chests and receiving accolades from their little minions...
....and another one joins the ranks of those who wish to be part of the problem.
DREDger is a minion and resorts to juvenile comments pot kettle black 1st & 4th words when not even so much as leaned on. All I'm saying as I have ALWAYS said, I don't beat around the bush. I've been a Rook how long? I know EXACTLY what goes on, come on. You are nuts if you think none of that goes on. If your talking about Rooks as a whole ...yes these things do go on. With reference to a dredger mission your wrong and out of context
I'm not trying to "relive anything". really? It doesn't look like that in the next paragraph It's just that 99% of the Community doesn't go out of their way to ruin fun for others. really? Great you Bish/Rooks were gang banging Knights last night. You forgot to look at the Country Statuses for your "reset attempts". now this does make perfect sense. I can't see the point of griefing 1 country back to a few bases when you still need 40% of another.
But where many have ALWAYS drawn the line is taking center map bases. Have you even looked at Oranges map? With the exception of TT map this idea here is total bollocks It serves no purpose other than to not allow GV'ers a "quick one or two hop". There is no TT in the orange terrain. Those center Island BASES in orange are just the same as any other base on the WHOLE FREAKIN MAP. They are to be contended and contested just like any other. Honestly, your arguing over TT when there isn't one. Instead all of you like minded, failure to see the light zombies get your rocks off hogging all of the bases. If there was a snowballs chance of a reset, if you're that weak, then take em. But when ALL countries are around 33% of each countries base quota, you're not taking them because "we rule and didn't whorde."
It is a mindset LYNX. That and that alone is the crux of this VERY THREAD. Yep and not petty arguments about none existant tank towns It's a shame that some just sell themselves for a score.
I'll ALWAYS sound off against center bases being taken. Even when there is NO TT? I'm not a hypocrite and despise those who are.
I'm done with this off topic side bar.
Not looking to be a part of anyone's problem, but like it or not, that is the way a lot of you come off on the bulletin board and in the game.
* HO
* dive bombing lancs or any heavy bomber
* running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs
* spawn camping
* being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy
* suicide dive bombers
* bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn
* hiding captured CVs
If you think all of these things are OK, then you are part of the problem.
btw, lotta looks at this thread.....
4,788 views as I post this. Would be cool if just a few % of the viewers stopped doing the crappy stuff. Unfortunately 2 things come to mind.What Fugitive probably means is keeping the CVs out in the boonies for no good reason and/or when they could be put to use (fun). All these cases are mostly shades of grey. What he's talking about aren't some platonisms but common occurences in the game. Characteristics of which can be bullet-ed like he did.
1) apparently only a minority of subscribers read the boards.
2) There's no way in hell I or some others will stop doing what others perceive to be crappy stuff. For an example....while the other sides are capable of spawning LVT dry I'll do likewise. If there's just cause I'll hide CV's but I'll also push them forward when it's appropriate.
One mans Taliban is another mans Mujaheddin
Bombing and bailing - Don't agree with bombing and bailing over the field, or if being chased. Then again does it really 'hurt' anyone?
4,788 views as I post this. Would be cool if just a few % of the viewers stopped doing the crappy stuff. Unfortunately 2 things come to mind.
1) apparently only a minority of subscribers read the boards.
2) There's no way in hell I or some others will stop doing what others perceive to be crappy stuff. For an example....while the other sides are capable of spawning LVT dry I'll do likewise. If there's just cause I'll hide CV's but I'll also push them forward when it's appropriate.
It's not black and white enough to laundry list it like that. Unless you start making each item a paragraph or two giving the full context.
re-upped, got HOd by that same jug as I passed him trying to get gear up, and got jumped by a hurri and 2 ponies right off the field, reversed the hurri, got into a semi-rolling scissors with him while dodging attacks from the ponies...saw a ponie coming in, avoided a head on pass and he got my tail as he flew by...(PFactorDave)
re-upped, dodged another HO by a spit and a hog at the same time....got wheels up, tried to get over 150mph...got tail snapped by passing pony....
Now, there was enemy at least 7 to 1 there, and no less than 11 ponies and tiffs were bnz cherrying the lopsided fight
Some one said that ENY killed RJO. Now I find that funny. Because if Bish's ENY is high they simply use a higher ENY plane to get the job done.
And what we are trying to tell you is that you are wrong.
These are things that YOU find to be lame. You are saying that this is the standard by your accounts.
I can agree with some of them being lame, but not all of them.
Someone else will also disagree with some of them and be completely different from our perceptions.
Is this the official results of a consensus from the community, no, its your opinion of what lame play is.
I agree, that would be the next step.I don't see how bad gameplay is a democratic arbitrary.
Identifying what one would consider to be lame is a start. No explanation needed at this time. ...
I don't see how bad gameplay is a democratic arbitrary.
Some one said that ENY killed RJO. Now I find that funny. Because if Bish's ENY is high they simply use a higher ENY plane to get the job done.
How I play, oh yeah my 15 bucks part. I like lone wolfing it. Anyone who really knows me will back me up. I like it when it's quiet and when all I think about is the next ACM, the attack, how I imagine it's going to unfold, and of course the what ifs. I think about the limits of my plane, the set up of my controls, my speed, and maybe I can learn something new or perhaps become a better shot.
On the other hand missions are fun and winning the map is a fun, triumphant moment.
Ironically, I have been criticized for both and sometimes from my own squad.
This is by no means a way to dictate to anyone including HTC of what it is.I'd be game if I hadn't seen your complete lack of lucidity in the collision model disussions.
Its a way for "we the community" to identify with and help sort out amongst ourselves of what is and is not lame and hopefully live by some sort of "code of conduct".
For the most part many things identified will not be contested, some will. Being constructive is the idea.
Choosing to do so, well thats on the end user. But at least we have a basis or something to agree on to determine if the act or practice in question is lame or not.
It was me that said it. You had to be there to see it. A little before your time I expect. Reset was knocking 1 side down to 3 bases. RJO's were multi winged high alt bombers and escorts. Jabo / fighter squads. Often they would take strats / field strats out across an entire front. Remember there were only 2 barracks 2 ammos 2 fuels per any size field then. Oh not forgetting 25% fuel porkage and 2/3 less field acks with no lgay7's and the like. To top that of the Rooks would have as many if not more players than the other 2 sides put together. 90 % of those players would be hitting the Bish more often than not. I was Bish back then and Cooley367th and I would pork rook fronts 30 min prior to RJO's so they would go after the Knights instead or have to run multi supplies.
When ENY was introduced they weren't bombing the crap out of us in TBM's and Bostons. They weren't killing our 25% fuel porkers or B17's, in their Hurri 1's and D3a's and without fuel they could not advance......funny that.
Gawd bless the mighty Bish :rolleyes:
I want to lone wolf it for a bit.
Stop by some time, I would like to drive a sector or two with you again..... :lol
:salute
Moot, your entitled to your opinion.
Stop by some time, I would like to drive a sector or two with you again..... :lolI never thought of that..
:salute
Moot, your entitled to your opinion.
How do you unsubscribe to a thread? Not to be disrespectful but I thought that was something you could do.http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=20170;sa=notification
I'd rather discuss how to improve players.
the horde creates stepford players....we just want a decent fight in a game about fighting....
What if I don't want to be "improved"!! ;)
Are you guys looking to create "stepford" players??
Now you're startin to scare me. :uhoh
The simple fact is that the fun in this game is from playing it... The same way it's more fun to play soccer when you're able to hit the ball where you mean to or have the stamina to play longer.
Fugitive you have many more issues than just MISSIONS,but let me ask you,if someone put up a CV mission,and had the LVT's in it,when it upped and you spawned feet dry,would you keep on going into town or would you ditch out??I wouldnt ditch out..
Fugitive,you made a post about the LAME moves you posted and how people on country get upset with them..I hear it on bish side,and do it myself.I smile just thinking about how sometimes I hear myself saying.."MAN I WISH THEY WOULD FIX THIS LVT SPAWNING FEET DRY ISSUE",and really only complain when it is another side doing it.Otherwise,if I find out they can spawn feet dry,I let people know about it,and use it to its NTH degree..As every side does..
Whats the first thing someone trys to do when they see a 262 in the area and coming for them??? A HO SHOT...you know it is true,so are we going to say it is OK in that instance but not in every other instance??
As far as missions with say 25 people in it taking bases,someone said how can it be fun,or something along those lines,and well,evidently it is or these missions would not happen ON EVERY SIDE...
And fugitive,you said something about taking a base and then just leaving it undefended and the missions moving somewhere else..It does not happen as often as it once did,but I would think that would make you HAPPY as it would mean your side could come in and take it back easily..SO I dont understand the complaint..
The lame game-play as you have posted about fugitive,the hoing the dry lvt's etc,etc,,is just something EVERY SIDE has to live with..I honestly do not think it cuts into my fun if someone is spawning lvt's dry into A56,and I am wayyyy down south at A10 FB'ing...
DOnt get me wrong,I COMPLAIN about it too if things are not going my way in something I am trying to accomplish,But then I realize that some time soon,the same thing will be used to give us an advantage and it will be used at that time..LIKE IT IS USED ON EVERY SIDE..
The maps are PLENTY BIG ENOUGH to allow EVERYONE their own type of "FUN" when in-game.. :aok
...and this is how we have gotten to where we are at now. You saw very little of this "lame play" 5 years ago. If everyone continues with the same attitude "oh well thats the way it is", or"well they do it to us", imagine what it could be in another 5 years.
and all the other things you say were less prevalent than they are now. It may be less players = seemed to be less prevalent, but it happened and it happened a lot.
[edit] leaving a base you just took undefended (esp if there is a couter attack) isn't lame - its stupid.
After last night watching your squaddie DREDger lead the charge in taking all of the center islands. Which he has done time and time again, because he enjoys ruining other people's fun. One must ask themselves, "What are we really trying to achieve?"
DREDger is a minion and resorts to juvenile comments when not even so much as leaned on.
I'll ALWAYS sound off against center bases being taken. I'm not a hypocrite and despise those who are.
That is a blatent falsehood. I wasn't involved with the center island takes, when I logged on they were already taken, and then next day taken back by the bish. The maps are stalemate maps anyway, so who cares. Karaya aka masherbum is trying to relive the old tank town arguments from 2 years ago.
Whatever, I've said nothing to you so I have no idea where this is coming from. Good for you if you are against center island takes.
Only think I've noticed about karaya aka masherbum is that he types more than he plays. This is his social scene. He should try getting some exercise.
Should I post the film of your comments about my weight? Quit lying and grow up.
Even more so, I was winging the CH's at the time you were gloating about "Rooks holding all of the center islands". You're just another pathological liar in this game DREDger. I know damn well you were involved because that is the only way you "try to win t3h war", as well as others that have replied to me. :t
Nor did I bring your name up in these posts.
Only think I've noticed about karaya aka masherbum is that he types more than he plays. This is his social scene. He should try getting some exercise.
Yet another lie.
Buy a Dictionary while you're at it.
will you buy me one?
i get so confused :(
Sup Brian! Where you been lately?Been doing my thing bro
Yet another lie.
Buy a Dictionary while you're at it.
LOL, the old liar liar pants on fire?IMHO.
So seriously, why do you care how I play the game masherbum? I didn't raise your name in this post, but you did mine.
Do you really care how bases are captured on these maps..they get reset every week.
go buy a couple big macs.
IMHO.
players like you have ruined this game.
but thats my opinion. it doesnt count
How so?If you would like for me to PM you, then i will.
If you would like for me to PM you, then i will.
But, im not going to get in to a pissing match with anyone.
And ill give you my thoughts and opinion as to why i feel like this.
Truthfully though, I am more sorry that nobody seemed interested in starting a "Pay it Forward" train the new guys movement... I guess pissing matches are more fun...
PFD, this is an individual type undertaking, if you have a desire to give back to the community, for people that helped you did so individually and voluntarily........and the same had been given to them before this..ad infinium......
there are people out there that does this already...hell Ren has been doing it for close to 20 years now or so.....
no need to start a movement..........just need people to jump on the train............and help pay it forward......thats all....
It's very difficult to tell people who enjoy the game one way to enjoy it your way.
Though they will try
The threads on this subject never go real well. It's very difficult to tell people who enjoy the game one way to enjoy it your way.
Identifying bad game play has nothing to do with telling a player what he should/shouldn't do with his $15. It simply gives him the opportunity to see why what he may be doing in the game is lame. Here's a perfect example of indisputable bad gameplay.
You see three allies ganging a bogey on the deck and you decide to be the 5th man into the fight. You dive in and kill the guy on the first pass with two of your allies saddled up on him. So lets see: You created a bad gameplay experience for the bogey obviously. As if 3v1 wasn't unfair enough! More importantly however, you created bad game play for the three allies that were fighting the bogey. It is extraordinarily insulting to your allies to not trust them enough in a 3v1 fight to be able to kill a guy. By taking this kill, you are robbing your allies of a fight and robbing your enemy of a challenge. So you effectively created bad gameplay for 4 people in that situation (3 of which being your allies) and created good gameplay for yourself by getting a kill. Overall situation is a -3 for game play.
It doesn't even stop here. It's laughably absurd when you see seven guys on a single bogey. The 6th,7th,8th guys into that "fight" have no business entering into the airspace around such a contest yet it happens all the time. This is indisputably negative!
Can anybody give me any legitimate reason how this is positive for anybody other than the selfish player blatantly stealing a kill from his allies and kicking an enemy in the head when he is already lying in the gutter unconscious?
This whole thread is a thirty odd page pissing match...
No need? Well the current situaiton is certainly not adequate if the Doomsayers are to be believed... I just get tired of all the preachy "play it this way or your a lamer" crap when so few of them are even remotely willing to actually make an effort to help change the basic mind set of the new players by honestly teaching them. Or maybe you are trying to say that there isn't really a problem like folks like Fugitive would have everyone believe...
For the record, folks like you and Ren who volunteer your time are doing more of what I am talking about then the other whiners in this thread will ever even consider.
The threads on this subject never go real well. It's very difficult to tell people who enjoy the game one way to enjoy it your way.
Though they will try
Thats all I've been saying!! There is a huge problem with poor game play !! If people would use a little common sense and realize that this is a game where it's suppose to be fun, and not a war that must be won at all costs it would be a much better game than it already is.
So what your saying then is that you both condone the lame game play listed and find nothing wrong with it?
Thats all I've been saying!! There is a huge problem with poor game play !! If people would use a little common sense and realize that this is a game where it's suppose to be fun, and not a war that must be won at all costs it would be a much better game than it already is.
So what your saying then is that you both condone the lame game play listed and find nothing wrong with it?
i think we all should just QUIT Aces High, and take up solitaire.
NOT
Right, out with reason, in with "my 15$". Who's on a high horse here? :lol
Loud noises!
You're smarter then that m00t...... Don't kid yourself. All my statement does is point out the fact that we are ALL equal, and your opinion, is not mine. Yours, Fugitive's, FALCON's, mine....... All different, never be the same, yet, we all get something out of the game. Is reaching the widest audience not a good idea? :saluteBS, see.. Reason isn't some fudged out relativizer like that. A black and white premise means definite blacks and whites. In our case there's definite grey areas, but to fudge it all out to be just "my 15$" is nonsense. Hell.. You guys make it all out as though someone like me is the one that stands to lose. I have nothing to lose. I can beat pretty much anyone.. I love the game and get a kick out of pretty much any "type of playing". And on top of that I don't even care about the outcome, I just want some excitement.
Missions are lame, Missions with more than 10 people or lame, Noe Missions are lame, flying perk planes is lame, 2 vs. 1 is lame, 3 vs. 1 is lame, 4 vs. 1 is lame, lone wolfing is lame, flying 30k is lame, bombing missions are lame, Large squads are lame, Once a guy said Small squads are lame ( I kid you not), Capturing a certain base is lame, resupplying a base is lame,Capturing a field period is lame, porking a field is lame, and the list goes on.
Now let me ask you this, if you adhered to all the things deemed lame would it not a some point interfere with the way you enjoy the game?
Let me give a short list from what I have read: Missions are lame, Missions with more than 10 people or lame, Noe Missions are lame, flying perk planes is lame, 2 vs. 1 is lame, 3 vs. 1 is lame, 4 vs. 1 is lame, lone wolfing is lame, flying 30k is lame, bombing missions are lame, Large squads are lame, Once a guy said Small squads are lame ( I kid you not), Capturing a certain base is lame, resupplying a base is lame,Capturing a field period is lame, porking a field is lame, and the list goes on.
anecdotic.
What I find humorous is I have been shot down by some of the people in here that are complaining about missions and hords etc. while they were right in the middle of a big misson, hord, with their countrymen. The people that fly in Jokers or Falcons missons all have fun they are fun missons, having fun is what the game is supposed to be all about. :aok
The very best way I can put is folks try to make rules where there are none. It was one of my first coherent thoughts in Air Warriors.inaccurate and missing the point
The list of lame things is endless.
Let me give a short list from what I have read: Missions are lame, Missions with more than 10 people or lame, Noe Missions are lame, flying perk planes is lame, 2 vs. 1 is lame, 3 vs. 1 is lame, 4 vs. 1 is lame, lone wolfing is lame, flying 30k is lame, bombing missions are lame, Large squads are lame, Once a guy said Small squads are lame ( I kid you not), Capturing a certain base is lame, resupplying a base is lame,Capturing a field period is lame, porking a field is lame, and the list goes on.
Personally I think there are some lame things. However, I have done them all. I am willing to bet most of you have too. I have films of people doing lame things. I have films of myself doing lame stupid things.
Now let me ask you this, if you adhered to all the things deemed lame would it not a some point interfere with the way you enjoy the game?
I say, gameplay ought to be rich and fair. .
Let me give a short list from what I have read: Missions are lame, Missions with more than 10 people or lame, Noe Missions are lame, flying perk planes is lame, 2 vs. 1 is lame, 3 vs. 1 is lame, 4 vs. 1 is lame, lone wolfing is lame, flying 30k is lame, bombing missions are lame, Large squads are lame, Once a guy said Small squads are lame ( I kid you not), Capturing a certain base is lame, resupplying a base is lame,Capturing a field period is lame, porking a field is lame, and the list goes on.
Personally I think there are some lame things. However, I have done them all. I am willing to bet most of you have too. I have films of people doing lame things. I have films of myself doing lame stupid things.
Now let me ask you this, if you adhered to all the things deemed lame would it not a some point interfere with the way you enjoy the game?
My last 'contribution' -Yes, obviously the intended meaning is that the game ought to be more rich and fair than less so.
I put it to you the game itself isn't fair, and can never be in its current format.
Tell me what is fair when a shiny new newb on his first sortie can get hammered by a 6,7,8 year old AH vet?Everyone plays by the same rules. Same physics, etc. Everyone can film and learn, no secrets.
Game = Gameplay - Gameplay is largely determined by what is allowed in the game.See below.
Thats why I have always said the the big quest for equal numbers is a fallacy. I would assume you would agree that 20 or so vets could easily take on much, much, much more newbies?Dunno where you read anyone argue that. In this 'bad gameplay' discussion or anywhere else. I have no problem with 3:1 against noobs.. It's fun for both me and them (from what I heard from them in pm or ch200 4 out of 5 times). The really interesting point would be that most players could easily do away with having to run and with cheap gameplay by learning some very rudimentary basics.. That the official trainers are more than happy to provide.. That most experienced players will be glad to demonstrate as well. Or that they'll unwittingly teach if the noobs review their films. The basics of dogfighting are really very simple. Huge gains for the first few efforts up the learning curve.
What I find humorous is I have been shot down by some of the people in here that are complaining about missions and hords etc. while they were right in the middle of a big misson, hord, with their countrymen. The people that fly in Jokers or Falcons missons all have fun they are fun missons, having fun is what the game is supposed to be all about. :aok
if it 3 on 1 how much more fun would it be being the next guy in? Not much unless you succeed in stealing the kill from the other three guys chasing the "one" already, now you've pissed off 4 people. Its easy to fix, use common sense and go look for another fight.:aok
Lame, Dweebish, Noobish, blah blah blah........... Good use of adjectives.
Sounds like a bunch of opinions to me though. Sadly, since we're all human, we'll never agree. Everybody has one.
Oh but BTW Donkey's Rears......... Newb's come on the game, and you punk's don't give them the time of day. A mission is an easy way for a newb to get involved, to want to pay the subscription, so, Bishop gets numbers in missions because we talk with our newbs.............
Oh, and another thing JACK's.....................
Without the newbs.... HTC, and the game, will never grow, eventually ceasing to exist. So why don't you all start saying thank you to the folks like FALCON23, who make this game exist.
You and your high horse..... Doesn't pay the bills.... Despite what your ego's think. Your opinion is only worth 15 bucks.... Same as mine, same as 300 names I can think of that really enjoy ruining Fugitive's evening.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Oh and another FYI........... FALCON23 being nice and speaking to newbs..... DRIVES US NUTS!
Get your facts straight.
And what page of the AH rulebook does it tell us what your definition of lame is? Oh, wait a sec..... I don't give two craps. Nevermind.
I think you need to check youre compass logan, Why dont you ask falcon which squad he started with when he was a noob. So were all punks for not talking to noobs well us bringing falcon and his son into our squad while they were noobs and doing squad missions without the 30+ pilots makes us punks?? The reason falcon and us parted ways was because we as a squad didnt want to constantly run horde missions or NOE missions. We prefer to take new members in and teaching them how to fly with at least some skill and knowledge of ACM.
We as a squad have stopped many horde missions in their tracks and pilot for pilot my boys have put many of you in the tower time after time. We have taught many new players skills they wouldnt have learned on their own or have learned being in some godawefull horde where youre just another red dot in the sky. We like newcommers and we dont require them to "do as I say" in a mission they usually fly wing with TwentyFo, Mcboi, Shukes and others and they actually lean a thing or 2. If they decide to stick with us thats fine we welcome them, if not then if the seperation is cordial and friendly then we wish them well.You acuseing us of being punks and not talking to new members is unfounded and just plain wrong.
You need to get the facts straight.
Anybody else seein' the connection between pilot skill and their opinion on this topic?
You think that planning missions most of a day is easy??? like to see some of you complaining run COUNTRY MISSIONS for 4-6 hours...Does not matter if it is a few in it or many...Try it for a day..
<<<<the fight is this way
Commence NOE horde this way>>>>
Easy enough
I'll never forget back in about 2003, when I started out with Nazgul, there was an armchair general planning a mission. Mind you this mission was out to get A26 from the Bish and had no importance in their "quest for a reset". Also, it had over 60 participants. The 81st wasn't happy about what I did and BFD even remembered that night at the 2003 Indy Con. :devil
Meanwhile, to win the reset, I hired Mutley, Goth, Boxboy28 and AX to hit the Center island. We took all bases ourselves and they never even got close to taking A26.
Some folks on here over the years have all of a sudden "become the best mission planners", but a lot of them lack a simple grasp of frontal tactics. "Let's swarm a base, take it, but quickly lose it, because we left supplies and the VH up at a base to it's rear."
But, if some sleep better thinking they're the shizzle, I guess.
You always were a stinker, but I loved your antics ;).
Cya Up!
Dawg
Please, take the time to read this without your egos and assess it objectively.
What too many folks don't seem to get is the fact that not a single thing, in and of itself, mentioned here as "lame gameplay" is lame gameplay. They are all part of the game. What is "lame" about the gameplay these days is the idea that AH is a "race to reset" game. That leads people to believe that an "anything goes" mentality is "good gameplay" because it accomplishes their goals. Which, in turn, assures that they will continually take the path of least resistance because it is the path to success in the "race to reset". THAT is bad gameplay.
A number of people have attempted to justify the way they play with statements about how vets treat newbies. That does nothing to further anyone's goals here, it simply obfuscates the truth, the only justification for the way people play the game is that it is what they want to do.
No one here is asking anyone to be a "baby sitter" or to police their fellow players. All that anyone can ask is that each player examine own his gameplay. Can you honestly say that you are making any effort to be a good and entertaining opponent? If not, then the odds are that you are part of the problem.
Please, take the time to read this without your egos and assess it objectively.I don't think the race to reset (as if it actually happens that often) is wrong per se. You could have great gameplay with such a race to reset. The problem is definitely cheap gameplay choices and bad sportsmanship.
What too many folks don't seem to get is the fact that not a single thing, in and of itself, mentioned here as "lame gameplay" is lame gameplay. They are all part of the game. What is "lame" about the gameplay these days is the idea that AH is a "race to reset" game. That leads people to believe that an "anything goes" mentality is "good gameplay" because it accomplishes their goals. Which, in turn, assures that they will continually take the path of least resistance because it is the path to success in the "race to reset". THAT is bad gameplay.
A number of people have attempted to justify the way they play with statements about how vets treat newbies. That does nothing to further anyone's goals here, it simply obfuscates the truth, the only justification for the way people play the game is that it is what they want to do.
No one here is asking anyone to be a "baby sitter" or to police their fellow players. All that anyone can ask is that each player examine own his gameplay. Can you honestly say that you are making any effort to be a good and entertaining opponent? If not, then the odds are that you are part of the problem.
ROCKY showed me that bad game-play is still alive and well last night
1 v 1, no cons in the area....good merge, few turns... was starting to get close to yielding a result...... then what does he do?
Turns tail and runs to 3 different base acks.
The game could never be "even, or equal" If it was it would always be a stalemate.
...but does it have to always be at the other players expense? By taking 20 guys to crush 6 you may have fun....I don't see how 3 on 1 :rolleyes: but the "6" surely are in for a bad time. I know you can take a field with 10 guys, I know this because I've done it hundreds of times. This new wave of player though doesn't "know" it because they never do it. The only missions they are in are the ones with an over whelming force.
The same goes for a fight, if it 3 on 1 how much more fun would it be being the next guy in? Not much unless you succeed in stealing the kill from the other three guys chasing the "one" already, now you've pissed off 4 people. Its easy to fix, use common sense and go look for another fight.
Please, take the time to read this without your egos and assess it objectively.
What too many folks don't seem to get is the fact that not a single thing, in and of itself, mentioned here as "lame gameplay" is lame gameplay. They are all part of the game. What is "lame" about the gameplay these days is the idea that AH is a "race to reset" game. That leads people to believe that an "anything goes" mentality is "good gameplay" because it accomplishes their goals. Which, in turn, assures that they will continually take the path of least resistance because it is the path to success in the "race to reset". THAT is bad gameplay.
A number of people have attempted to justify the way they play with statements about how vets treat newbies. That does nothing to further anyone's goals here, it simply obfuscates the truth, the only justification for the way people play the game is that it is what they want to do.
No one here is asking anyone to be a "baby sitter" or to police their fellow players. All that anyone can ask is that each player examine own his gameplay. Can you honestly say that you are making any effort to be a good and entertaining opponent? If not, then the odds are that you are part of the problem.
I dont run missions as often.....complaining about BIG MISSIONS..
Here's an example of fellow knights.
Falcon...
Why bother to quote my post if you are going to ignore what I posted? You went straight to trying to obfuscate the issue with statements about your not running as many missions as you used to....etc.. No single thing you posted is lame. It's the frequency and volume of those things that make for lame game play.
Just curious, did you bother to read what I posted and, perhaps, answer the question I asked?
BTW, I don't really care if you answer here. This isn't about putting you on the spot. It is about attempting to get you to see what the problem is and hopefully, examine and adjust accordingly. :)
...my side...
...dont believe I am here to entertain the opponents..
...MY GOAL is supposed to be to entertain those guys,then they are barking up the wrong tree...
...I want to entertain myself,my squad,and the country I fly for...
...Thats where my entertainment lies...
And I can relate to the guys on 200 hollering about this or that,I do it MYSELF sometimes..But do I expect that the guy I am even talking to on 200 is going to see it,not really.Do I expect that the red guy flying away after I got the upperhand in the fight should turn around and ENTERTAIN me,he is protecting his skin,and after seeing some of what I consider to be GREAT sticks in the game run from me,not knowing who I was,and only later finding out that they ran due to the fact that they lost the upper hand in the fight,dosent make me feel the need to entertain the other side..
I will say that what is being talked about here is part of reason that HT split the arenas and perhaps should do it again. After nearly 20 years of doing this (yeah, when they say "been there, done that", I'm the guy they are talking about) I am sad to say that without some changes, this may be a dead-end ride.
One thing I don't agree with is that a player should be there to entertain another player. :rofl :rofl :rofl I think the most fun for all is when a player plays the way he enjoys although there are exceptions I can think of.
OK Falcon, look at it from the other side. You log on on a Saturday and the only fight going is this horde rolling base after base. Your out numbered 3 or 4 to 1 The other side see's a possible reset in the works so they just hammer your team relentlessly. While it may be "fun" for them they are certainly ruining yours correct?
Sure you could start a fight on the other side of the map, or maybe try to run an NOE behind the horde, maybe even a porking mission, boring as all h@ll, but it might slow them down. But you know, its only a matter of time before they reset the map.
This is where you can entertain the opposition. There is no need to roll base after base, if you succeed in taking enough we get a new map and it starts all over, if you don't the midnight crawlers will milk them back during the night. So make the missions more fun. Instead of having it be all about the map reset, make be all about the battle for the map reset. I know it doesn't sound all that different, but it is. By making it more fun for the enemy as well as your team it will be more abut the battle.
Lumping everyone in with those loud mouths is the same as saying every big squad is a horde, it just isn't always true. Yes some are a horde because thats the only way they know how to operate, but others spread themselves out to support a fight instead of trying to dominate the fight. The same goes for some of the best sticks in this game. You'll rarely see them complain, but if the night is run by the horde, you won't see them fly either.
Bet your wife thinks you are a great sex partner too.... :rofl :rofl :rofl
First a reply to NB..You asked ME/I a question and I answered it with how I feel..I cannot speak for anyone else but me...
I dont see how I can be focused on the RED guy and make sure he is "ENTERTAINED" by me..the only way I entertain them is if they shoot me down..That is the point of the game,among others isnt it?? I am not trying to be obstinate,but in the game,it is kill or be killed..It is defend a base,or have it taken from you,this is on all 3 countrys..
Fugitive:
I have been on that end,no it is not the greatest time to be on the recieving end,but one does what one can to stop the missions..And if it cant be done,I just log into another arena if the numbers are way out of kilter,I dont get offended by it..I realize that maps are going to get reset,I used to want to reset them as fast as possible,but not anymore..Although I still want to take bases.Sometimes momentum gets going and one gets "BLOODLUST" in their eyes and the missions roll..
Yes fugitive porking missions and resupplying are BORING,but in the game,being as rounded as it is,is a way to slow down the other side..I used to hate porking,now it is one of the main things we do in my squad,without feeling it is BORING...
I see what you are saying about the battle and the map reset..But it is very hard to watch bases get taken by another team,and not go about to try and get some of them back,as well as some of theirs..
But the battles get OLD for me..I can last maybe 2 hours,sometimes a bit longer in a FB,and honestly,I am done with it..I am not the greatest fighter,but I do ok,and I dont know,it just gets old..
Anyway it is late,and FUGITIVE,I appreciate this post you made,it seems to come from a different place,maybe because I can relate to getting rolled by the other side,but I know it is part of the game,and it happens,and I usually just go to another arena.. :salute
Ren...
The arena split here has nothing to do with the demise of AW...DOS or otherwise. It has not meant the demise of this game, thus far. HT's intent was to create an environment where "community" had a chance to grow by breaking one large, unwieldy community into several smaller ones.
What is "counter productive to a dogfight game" is large groups of players playing on opposite sides of the map to avoid combat.
What killed AW was apathetic management, not split arenas.
BTW, nice to see you around, Ren. :)
We should have one MA, smaller maps so there is nowhere for the hordes to hide.
We should have one MA, smaller maps so there is nowhere for the hordes to hide.I say just remove the mission planner option.
So everyday becomes a Titanic Tuesday???
First a reply to NB..You asked ME/I a question and I answered it with how I feel..I cannot speak for anyone else but me...
I dont see how I can be focused on the RED guy and make sure he is "ENTERTAINED" by me..the only way I entertain them is if they shoot me down..That is the point of the game,among others isnt it?? I am not trying to be obstinate,but in the game,it is kill or be killed..It is defend a base,or have it taken from you,this is on all 3 countrys..
I say just remove the mission planner option.
You like taking bases?..join a "base taking squad". and so on. What kills me with these mega squads is their need to post public missions. Advertising that you need to roll with the #s in order to get anything accomplished is what gives people bad habbits.
Im still learning how to take up certain rides and Ive learned more in the past 4 months of not flying with the horde than I have learned the previous 2 years of flying with the horde.
I say just remove the mission planner option.
You like taking bases?..join a "base taking squad". and so on. What kills me with these mega squads is their need to post public missions. Advertising that you need to roll with the #s in order to get anything accomplished is what gives people bad habbits.
Im still learning how to take up certain rides and Ive learned more in the past 4 months of not flying with the horde than I have learned the previous 2 years of flying with the horde.
Bad idea IMO, missions are fun. A good mission planner can educate new players on organized play, ie what hangers are what, tactics, etc.
Usually you do have to roll with numbers to get anything done, that is the nature of the game. One plane cannot reduce a town. 4 110's and a goon can capture a town, but not when a single LA-7 comes screaming out and goes right for the goon.
A medium field has 4 fh, 3 bh and 1 vh, that is 7 hangers needed to be closed to prevent the 'defense' horde from upping IL-2's en masse. Of those 7 hangers, how many will be killed by ack or miss the target, not to mention at least one goon needed to capture after the town is reduced.
Suppose you have a good gaggle of heavy 47's headed for target. One fighter with altitude can disrupt the whole affair, just B&Z and pick them off one by one, so you need escorts to protect the Jabo's.
There are alot of components to this game. To call players who group together as just a 'horde' is a gross oversimplification. Not to mention it is merely a different style than other players like, ie the 1 vs 1 duel.
The problem with the numbers is the lack of attrition. No matter how good you are, and how many you kill, the enemy can just reup at the target where your guys have to come from a sector away. Thats what makes it neccessary to hord a base if you want to take it.
If there was a way to dent reupping at a field you just died at, it would make it so you could defeat the defenders, and they would have to up from the next base back if they die.If it's so important, you can cap the field. Take out the VH(s) and vulch it. One cannon fighter can take out about three rollers. This isn't news to anyone...
OK Falcon, look at it from the other side. You log on on a Saturday and the only fight going is this horde rolling base after base. Your out numbered 3 or 4 to 1
Why is that the only fight? If it's the only fight, why are you outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1? What are the rest of your guys doing? What are the rest of their guys doing?
The idea of a "GAME" is for everyone playing to have fun.
Because it was a situation that I was setting up to show him what it looks like from the other side.
Had you left the rest of the quote in there it would have also had where I said yes you could start another fight, but the point of the matter is there is no need for the "horde" type missions.
The idea of a "GAME" is for everyone playing to have fun.
In other words, it was a hypothetical situation that can and will never actually exist. Exactly what I was saying. It won't ever actually look like that from the other side, because it can't ever happen.
If my style of play has the potential to ruin everybody else's fun, but only under circumstances that can never actually happen, that's not going to make me lose any sleep.
But that's not the point you claimed you were making. You say you're demonstrating that that style of play ruins everyone else's fun. Saying there's no NEED for "hordes" does not show that they ruin everyone else's fun. You fail at logic.
Theres no NEED for 1-1 duels either, but that doesn't mean you're spoiling everybody else's fun if you play that way.
That doesn't obligate everyone else to play the way YOU find the most fun, any more than it obligates you to play the way that anyone else finds more fun.
Noone is telling you or anyone else how to play. You make that decision. The OP started this thread wanting to debate his position on how flying in hordes is affecting game play. Almost 600 replies later and I gaurantee that we havent even dented a change in 99% of the minds of the people that do fly in hordes. They stick to the theory of "its my money".
I am still pretty new, but what I see pretty common here is that its inevitable that no matter what you say or do, it wont change the minds of these guys that love to fly in #s.
Time will always cure this. Eventually they will get bored flying in those 50 man missions but whats sad is just as they start getting bored, they realize the new guys that flew in their missions are now taking their place.
I could care less about hordes. I have my own option if I want to fight them off or not. Plenty of choices in this game that if I dont like getting ganged at one side of the map, There is plenty of other places I can find fun.
In other words, it was a hypothetical situation that can and will never actually exist. Exactly what I was saying. It won't ever actually look like that from the other side, because it can't ever happen.
If my style of play has the potential to ruin everybody else's fun, but only under circumstances that can never actually happen, that's not going to make me lose any sleep.
But that's not the point you claimed you were making. You say you're demonstrating that that style of play ruins everyone else's fun. Saying there's no NEED for "hordes" does not show that they ruin everyone else's fun. You fail at logic.
Theres no NEED for 1-1 duels either, but that doesn't mean you're spoiling everybody else's fun if you play that way.
That doesn't obligate everyone else to play the way YOU find the most fun, any more than it obligates you to play the way that anyone else finds more fun.
"Noone is telling you or anyone else how to play."
Half the posts in this thread is someone telling someone else how to play the game.
"I could care less about hordes. I have my own option if I want to fight them off or not. Plenty of choices in this game that if I dont like getting ganged at one side of the map, There is plenty of other places I can find fun."
A very true and logical statement. I think is what a lot of folks fail to see. They rather try to get you to play the game their way, if you don't, then you contributing to the demise of the game.
Fred
It truly amazes me how dense some people are. If your quoting me then your talking about what I'm saying, so again I will say I'M NOT TELLING ANY ONE TO PLAY MY WAY. I am ASKING people to stop the LAME game play.
1Loki, If you had looked at the rest of the posts in the thread you would have come across a number of screen shots SHOWING HORDES IN ACTION, proving that they do happen. Unfortunately they are happening more and more as time goes on. Using my hypothetical situation I was asking a question.... Would you find it fun getting hit by the horde? As it DOES happen, and it will CONTINUE to happen I ask you the same question, "Would that be fun? As a SOLUTION to the horde I suggested using those "vast" resources to do multiple missions. A fighter sweep mission, a porking mission, and an attack/capture mission all at the same time. The horde is STILL working its will on the map, but now has provided 3 separate fights instead of a "horde" that no one can fight so increasing the fun for everyone, friend and foe alike.
bmwgs, If you read what is being said and instead of jumping to the defensive and blinding your self to what is posted you'd see that "most" of us are not telling any one to "play my way". We are pointing out what is happening in the arenas, and are trying to help the community by suggesting ways to continue doing what "you" like to do with out spoiling anyone else fun.
The game is about the JOURNEY to the end, not the END. In racing to a reset, all you get is another map. In working through all the fights and tactics and strategies you get enjoyment of each battle, win or loose, you still have that thrill. In this thread we are talking about lame game play, game play that works to get you away from those strategies, those thrills. Neither of you guys could say you wouldn't mind being on the receiving end of the horde. Today maybe we only see the "horde" 30% of the time, next week it WILL be more, and the week after more, because the answer will always be, "well they do it to us!", and before you know it it will be the only mission going again.
All we are trying to do here is to nip lame game play in the bud. If a few start looking for less LAME game play now, others might start following that example. Leaders teaching the new generation whats is LAME, and what isn't. Hordes will will be few and far between, and battles, fights and combat will be the norm.
Speaking of dense, who are you talking about? I did not in any way refer to you in my post. Matter of fact, when I was typing it, your name never came to mind. So who is on the defensive, not me, but you sure are.
I am not defending any type of game play. I really in the long run don't care. I will play the game until I stop having fun, then I will quit. When I quit I won't come back and tell everyone how they should play or how it used to be.
The only individuals that can control this game is HTC. They will make and enforce the rules and determine how the game should be played. All can speak about policing our own, but in this day of keyboard warriors and faceless fictional names, there is no way the community can really enforce any one type of game play, no matter what it is.
I am not on one side or the other, so don't try to tell me what I am thinking or what I believe. I do not agree with some, but I do agree with others. Wheather you like it or not I am entitled to my opinions.
By the way I was quoting oTRALFZo, so don't jump to conclusions.
Fred
The same arguments repeated a couple of posts after they were refuted. I'm outta this one till that stops happening.
This is turning into Groundhog Day..........
But who is playing the part of Bill Murray?
This is turning into Groundhog Day..........
But who is playing the part of Bill Murray?
This is turning into Groundhog Day..........
But who is playing the part of Bill Murray?
:lol :lol :lol :lol It always does when the thread gets too long and generally becomes another subject entirely. I'm surprised by now that were not talking about butterflies in Holland.
Very rare butterfly in Holland but can be seen in Austria quite often.
Very rare butterfly in Holland but can be seen in Austria quite often.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/90/209320819_8818e29ea8.jpg?v=0)
I rarely put myself in danger but I want everyone else to fly straight in a line, in a plane that is easier to kill, and let me kill them... .so all these years I have invested in this game are rewarded by me getting unearned recognition. Anything done to thwart that is bad...we must stop human nature and fun dictating what guides gameplay and instead impose our will (and greater understanding) upon the unskilled masses. By insisting we all become equal and forcing people to do so with insults and irritations we will have a stronger community (that will respect us more).
-- Karl Marx420
fixed
1Loki, If you had looked at the rest of the posts in the thread you would have come across a number of screen shots SHOWING HORDES IN ACTION, proving that they do happen.
Post 600 ... can't believe it's gone this far.
What is TRULY the definition of BOVINE EXCRAMENT is the horders who rack up big kill tallies by vulching runways and fighter hangers. WEAKSAUCE. If you are proud of that big number of kills you land by strafing guys trying to get airborne, so be it. More power to ya. Here's a newsflash: You're a dweeb.
:huh
I see by the time stamp that you were quoting my post, so if that was your intent to respond to me, let me be the first to point out you could not have more completely missed my point. My feelings are the opposite of what you decribe with your "fix." I'm the first to try to up against a hoard, and I'll fly straight into a gaggle of cons just to see how long I can stay alive. The K/D ratio is meaningless to me. My name is rarely ever up in lights, cause I usually fight til either I'm A) out of ammo, or B) DEAD. That's how I plan on getting better. Not strafing guys on the runway.
But, I dunno, maybe you were agreeing with me. I dunno.
If you were, my apologies.
<----- exactly the opposite of the "BBS Bully" type. But I know bad game play, and vulching is the very definition of it.
there are folks who are having fun and folks who are not having fun...somehow the latter think this can be solved on the bbs...inaccurate
I say just remove the mission planner option.
You like taking bases?..join a "base taking squad". and so on. What kills me with these mega squads is their need to post public missions. Advertising that you need to roll with the #s in order to get anything accomplished is what gives people bad habbits.
Im still learning how to take up certain rides and Ive learned more in the past 4 months of not flying with the horde than I have learned the previous 2 years of flying with the horde.
You guys have said the same thing for 41 pages..... the two camps simply aren't going to come together.
It seems to be an immutable truth, the big squads and hordes will continue to provide players who are easy kills.
I'll play the insurance salesman. I like stepping in puddles anyways. :huh
HUGE HORDES..Huge, as in extremely large in size or amount. How about "disproportionate"? (http://dasmuppets.com/public/moot/OneWeekStuff/AirCombat.ahf)
But on a more serious note,You know I think that missions that people see may actually be a conglomeration of BISH,NIT,ROOK on one area,and not actually from a mission that was planned..
Reaper90
I used your "quote box" because you were the last poster when i hit "quote"...i changed the name etc in an attempt to be funny....i was not responding to you or trying to poke fun at your post at all...I was not trying to insult you or respond directly to your post...I just stole your quote box :t
my apologies if you took this as a swipe at you...it wasn't
my point was that this thread is simply a reincarnation of a thousand threads that I have quit responding to because there is no "aha moment" for either sides of the coin.
there are folks who are having fun and folks who are not having fun...somehow the latter think this can be solved on the bbs...
I am having fun :salute
For you, the "dense" part was jumping on the "everyones trying to make them play my way" band wagon. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear on that.
Saying this community can not change game play is foolish, because it already has, unfortunately for the worst. The more people who come into this game and see lame game play being as the quickest and easiest path to the top... what ever they consider the top, be it acculaids in their squad, name in lights, or top of the scoreboard .... without any consequences the worst game play is going to get.
You say that "you will play the game until you stop having fun, then you'll quit". What if a few guys did nothing but followed you around and bombed you everytime you upped in your GV, what if your "spit" wasn't available due to ENY all the time. You wouldn't be having fun, so you'd quit and not look back? My guess is your not having all that much fun now. Me, I'd rather fight to keep the game play good so the fun would continue, not only for me, but for everyone else. But, like you said, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I think the game is worth fighting for, I guess you don't. Good luck with what ever game you move to next. <S>
Yeah, he is a very boring person to fight. I do not recall one fight I've had over the years against ROCKY where he didn't run in the middle of it. Mace is another prime example and to think he's a trainer. Though, while their flying maybe boring I wouldn't chalk it up to bad game play, more like limp wristed timid flying.
ack-ack
This from one of the BIG mission planners in days past,wanting the mission planner gone..Been there, done that... of course. Just like probably everyone in here. I agree, it was fun.
Now that you are tired of people running missions like you used to run,that we used to run together,you think that since you no longer have a need for it,it should all just be gone..
ack-ack, ol' buddy, I'm gonna call you on this one. Do you know Mace? Do you know his background?I think I chased a dude named Mace2004 before...he was scary timid.....maybe that was him and he was just not wanting to own me at the time....maybe he was being timid......
Let me enlighten everyone who doesn't.
Mace is a retired Navy fighter jock. He's a graduate of TOPGUN and a graduate of the Navy Test Pilot School. He has in excess of 5,000 hours flying the F-14 Tomcat off of carriers, with God knows how many combat sorties in two wars. I defy anyone to say that any person who has done what this man has accomplished is somehow timid.
Mace is a trainer because he has forgotten more about flying and air combat than almost any member of this community will ever know. Unless of course, you have a F-14A in your hanger and the two million dollars required for the training necessary to get qualified to fly it.
The very best stick in Aces High isn't qualified to chock the wheels of his Tomcat, much less openly suggest he's timid...
My regards,
Widewing
I am not telling you to play a certain way. All thats asked is that you challenge yourself sometimes rather than looking for the easy road.
First of all I have never told anyone to play the game a certain way, that is YOU assuming tooooooo much. Second the community itself can not enforce anything when a player can change their game id daily, but HTC can. Third there is always a spit available no matter what the ENY is.
I have no idea what you are talking about score wise. I know you have looked at mine, that is the type of player you are, and there is nothing to show I am a score Hor. At best I am average at this game and I'll admit it. YOU are the one dictating how the game should be played by making a list of what is lame to YOU, and the hell with everyone that doesn't agree with you. So don't come to me with some high and mighty attitude about what I think and how I think the game should be played, because you have NO idea what I am thinking.
You say the community has changed the game for the worse. I do not agree. I think this game is as fun as the day I signed on, and like most humans I will play until I stop enjoying the game. If you don't enjoy the game and want to continue playing, that is your decision, I could care less.
Fred
:huh
Contradict yourself much? Or is "asking him to challenge himself" somehow different then trying to dictate how he should play? I see very little difference. Maybe Falcon should "challenge" himself by trying to assemble the largest hordes ever seen in AH2... Would that make you happy? I didn't think so. You only want him to "challenge himself" in such a way that you consider to be "good game play". :rolleyes:
If you don't see how you are trying to dictate his play style now, you never will.
Im gonna just go bang my head against the wall, its much more productive
:huh
Contradict yourself much? Or is "asking him to challenge himself" somehow different then trying to dictate how he should play? I see very little difference. Maybe Falcon should "challenge" himself by trying to assemble the largest hordes ever seen in AH2... Would that make you happy? I didn't think so. You only want him to "challenge himself" in such a way that you consider to be "good game play". :rolleyes:
If you don't see how you are trying to dictate his play style now, you never will.
Thats a NoBrainer. This whole thread has been bad.
Im gonna just go bang my head against the wall, its much more productive
I think I chased a dude named Mace2004 before...he was scary timid.....maybe that was him and he was just not wanting to own me at the time....maybe he was being timid......
at any rate, I will give Mace a big <S> for his service and respect him for his ability to serve our country as a fighter pilot. :salute
... we have traded spankings on many an occasion.
While it's nice to share personal experiences with the community, this one might have been a bit over the top.
Not the same guy.
I know Mace mainly from the MW arena ... a good guy and always (at least for me) a good fight ... we have traded spankings on many an occasion.
A definition of bad game play....
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/lame.jpg)
If you need 10 - 110's, 3 - Ki84's, 1 - 109, 1 - 190, and a set of dive bombing B24's to take a base, there is just one more thing you need....
training :D
Ok these type of flyer will never risk anything.They would rather run away then take a chance on ACM trying to get a fireing solution.The nothing ventured nothing gained effect. Every fight can be a learning experience if you are willing to lay it all on the line and fight to the death.
Sadly alot are to skeered to be shot down for some reason. I would bet alot of them run to the score page to see if their score is higher than someones and think they are "better" at the game.
Yep, he is the same guy. I don't know what is handle is right now, but it was Mace2004, some times ago. The first time I met him in MA, he was flying a Hog, I was flying a Seafire, going back home. He kept harassing me, booming and zooming and extending to safety every time I reversed on him, until he got me. Then he saluted me on 200 saying that was a good fight... I immediately challenged him to DA, there I discovered he could fight the knife fight very well... and then I discovered why! :D
Furthermore, for Pete's sake let us not accord a heap of respect to someone just because they can fly a cartoon airplane well, or vis versa. If I can fly better than someone else, it is principally because I have spent more of my valuable lifespan practicing for this game than they have, not something I exactly feel I should crow about.
A definition of bad game play....
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/lame.jpg)
If you need 10 - 110's, 3 - Ki84's, 1 - 109, 1 - 190, and a set of dive bombing B24's to take a base, there is just one more thing you need....
training :D
Yes indeed, it is terrible to see that not one fighter has rolled to kill all those 110s. What a huge waste of targets.
Why are so many people campaigning for less targets?
so you might say if you play smart and don't stay in the fight to the end no matter what than that's poor game play...?
I've done both, and it takes no more courage to fight like a rabid ground squirrel than it does to "fly to live". In fact, it may take more courage to do the latter...if you don't go into it with any expectation of survival, you're never disappointed. :devil
No one really dies, planes are free. Might as well fight!
When even within the constraints of the game, they fly nothing like someone who doesn't have endless lives would. If you could be more specific...
Agreed. But... Why ridicule those who want to try and relive what it is was like not to have endless lives?
BnZ - Courage (as much as there might be in a video game) is the ability to control fear in a dangerous or difficult situation.. Now, which is more dangerous and difficult.. Stacking the odds on your side and risking as little as possible, or finding perilous odds? Which of these two is fighting like a rabid ground squirrel and which is flying to live?
If everyone flew to not die putting forth zero risk(irony in itself), it would be a constant tug o war match to get the upper hand in fights. Everyone would be flying at 30k in hordes playing cat and mouse with other hordes. That's why.
Wow... Apparently you are perfectly comfortable providing "supreme" definitions... I guess I should just give up any arguement, seeing how you are absolutely incapable of even the slightest consideration that your are wrong.:lol reread the above post and substitute PFactorDave for moot. And add some letter case variations to PFactorDave to appeal to ridicule (hopefully!).
I guess we just need to establish the MooT rule set, then we can proceed from there, eh?
Whatever...
FURTHER EDIT: Are you guys really THAT pissed off when someone bugs out? Because, let me tell you, when someone does it to me I generally know why they were going to do it...I was about to shoot large chunks away from their airplane. Doesn't make me mad enough to throw my headset across the room or anything.Is that how you picture it?
FURTHER EDIT: Are you guys really THAT pissed off when someone bugs out? Because, let me tell you, when someone does it to me I generally know why they were going to do it...I was about to shoot large chunks away from their airplane. Doesn't make me mad enough to throw my headset across the room or anything.
People should fly smart and try to stay alive. What bothers me is people picking the softest fight on the map with the most stacked odds to minimize risk. That's how hordes get bigger, fights collapse, and game play goes down the john.
BnZ - I would agree but... What other reason is there for those guys that run and fly so timidly?Is that how you picture it?
Agreed. But... Why ridicule those who want to try and relive what it is was like not to have endless lives?
What I do have trouble with is those that will dive out because they know your about to "remove large chunks from their planes", but turn back after you have turned your attention to his two buddies who have stayed in the fight.
This game is suppose to be about fighting, not running away from one, not hiding from one, not avoiding one by use of over whelming numbers, nor throwing your cartoon life away with arcade type flying, but just plain old fighting.
It is more along the lines of "not want to give the b@stard the satisfaction".
Not picking on you but I do question any validity of what is written above...It's not that black and white. Look at it this way... "How about not die'n by successfully fighting instead of dodging the fight?"
So....what yer saying is......the guy is gonna hack "large chucks from yer plane" so you should do nothing to prevent that?
Die cause you can? How about not die'n cause you can? Think about it. It is a game after all.
This is my motivation. I don't want to give some hordeling, who is afraid to leave the herd, a kill. I love it when a hordeling taunts me because I'm running.... as if I can't see the 4 or 12 guys behind him. Smack talking hordelings are in my top ten amusing things in AH.
piss and wind - 1 definition - All speech and no actionPretty much everyone involved in this thread, on both sides, plays what they preach nearly to a tee.
Not picking on you but I do question any validity of what is written above...
So....what yer saying is......the guy is gonna hack "large chucks from yer plane" so you should do nothing to prevent that?
Die cause you can? How about not die'n cause you can? Think about it. It is a game after all.
Ren
I have. "Way they enjoy the game" is crummy wording, but yeah.
Like I said on the part of the post that you neglected to quote, I said it was a fine line. To me I'm in it for the fight, you maybe are more in it for one life to live, to retreat to fight another day.
Sure I try to RTB, whether I have kills or not, but if I'm in a fight, I'm in it to win, and more often than not that ends with a quick trip to the tower. You may be happy to turn tail and run to save your "life", and thats ok. You may lean a bit more to one side of the "line" than I do. The point is, if the guy has decide to quit the fight, then quit it. If your NOT quitting the fight, why run... so you can reset your advantage that the other player has worked out of you due to "wining the fight"?
Pretty much everyone involved in this thread, on both sides, plays what they preach nearly to a tee.
You're all so full of piss and wind. :aok
You missed the point. A dogfight happens to have an objective. Otherwise why be there? If you are loosing the fight then you find a way to reset the fight. If that means you extend to gain an advantage from a disadvantage then that is part of a dogfight. To sit there and say, "well he got on my 6 so I'll just go level and die because both I and he deserve what's about to happen" is pure BS (spelled bolshevik). If I extend and retake the initiative and shoot him done then guess what...He died. I didn't. That is a dogfight. If you actually feel that because you happened to get an advantage on someone that you should then, and rightfully so (in your mind) be handed the kill. Then when I finally retire and can I really wanna start smokin whatever it is that you have.
Talk about a dream world..."i beat you for an instant so i deserve the kill, roll over and take it like a man" MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
In a dogfight it's not over until someone goes down in flames. Period.
ps- you gotta tell me what yer on so I can start saving for it. :rofl
I'm sure glad it's not your football...No one would be playing here.
Ren
First off I don't know why you have such a bug up your bellybutton here, we are just discussing things and everyone has an opinion.
Second, you said so yourself, you run to "reset the fight" so that means you have given up on the present one and are looking to make a new one. To me, like you said a fight is until one is dead, so I'd stay in the fight and try some of that "pilot crap" they talk about to turn the position around. Also like I said I end up in the tower often, which is ok with me.
Third this thread was about mediocre play and using lame game play to keep up with those that are willing to spend some time to learn. I threw together a list of what I though most people would concider lame game play and suggest we all work to point out such a list to the other players.
* HOs lame
* dive bombing lancs lame or any heavy bomber
* running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame
* spawn camping lame
* being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame
* suicide dive bombers lame
* bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame
* hiding captured CVs lame
So Ren, would you say that the above list would be something that people should add to their list of things to excel at? Are these the "tactics" ( and I use that term as loosely as possible here) that should be pushed into the game, or out? Because today we are seeing it pushed in more than ever.
Like I said before, you can fight how you like, its your dime, but its not how I fly a fight. The line is viewed a bit different from your side, but while I don't like it I wouldn't consider it lame game play. Much like Mace values his "game life" who am I to say other wise.
All I'm trying to do here is to point out the lame game play that has infested this game. 5 years ago it was much better, and you know it, because you were there. The only hordes where furballs, and more often than not the land grabber left them alone. BnZ, turn fighting, furball, strategic, and tactical play was all there with very little "griefing". Today its who has the biggest steam roller.... great improvement!
Third this thread was about mediocre play and using lame game play to keep up with those that are willing to spend some time to learn. I threw together a list of what I though most people would concider lame game play and suggest we all work to point out such a list to the other players.
* HOs lame
* dive bombing lancs lame or any heavy bomber
* running NOEs with 12 110s, 4 goons, and a half dozen or so NIKs lame
* spawn camping lame
* being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame
* suicide dive bombers lame
* bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame
* hiding captured CVs lame
So Ren, would you say that the above list would be something that people should add to their list of things to excel at? Are these the "tactics" ( and I use that term as loosely as possible here) that should be pushed into the game, or out? Because today we are seeing it pushed in more than ever.
(http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/smiliesadd1/dead_horse.gif)
Only one group can define bad game play or do anything about it, and they all work at HTC.
Why would they start to add definitions? Not the business they do. We are all discussing here how to make the game more narrow, less attractive to the masses even.......... I don't think that's something they are looking to do.
That's the reason I respond to these types of threads. They are counter productive to the game.
And yet....So many people over the years have expressed their desire to have old-timers show new folks how to play the game well. Unless people post their views on good play, this will never happen. Can't have it both ways - teach me good form, but I don't want to hear it because I'm going to do what I'm going to do.
- oldman
I remember my very first time in an arena like it was yesterday. I got up in a FW190D and managed to get it off the ground. I saw two planes and flew over to them. I was dumbfounded that they didn't try and kill me. I flew somewhat close and let loose a burst and missed by a mile. One called me a DA and a dweeb and said please shoot the red guys. Really? Well I'll be darned!
Pee51 ran from a co-E, 1v1 engagement and I had to chase him for three sectors and through the AAA of two airfields and one vehicle base.
That count as "bad gameplay?"
Pee51 ran from a co-E, 1v1 engagement and I had to chase him for three sectors and through the AAA of two airfields and one vehicle base.
That count as "bad gameplay?"
Pee51 ran from a co-E, 1v1 engagement and I had to chase him for three sectors and through the AAA of two airfields and one vehicle base.Nope. Chasing a player that far across a map and through that much AAA does seem just a tad silly, but I wouldn't call it "bad gameplay". My bet is that the P51 you were chasing was having a ball dragging you around on a leash :devil
That count as "bad gameplay?"
Second, there is no such thing as certainty that an engagement will *stay* 1v1 in the MA. Usually it does not. That colors one's choice to engage or not.
My bet is that the P51 you were chasing was having a ball dragging you around on a leash :devil
My bet is that the P51 you were chasing was having a ball dragging you around on a leash :devil
utterly lame.....not that I'm amazed....coming from you. :aok
I plead guilty.
I do that sometimes to La-7's when flying a Tempest. I fly at 7.5k, where I can fly faster at MIL than they can do at WEP, then I just keep 'em at D1000... and drag 'em deeper and deeper into my country's territory, looking back over my shoulder with a big smile on my face. More sooner than later they run out of fuel and I tune to CH200...
:devil
More sooner than later they run out of fuel and I tune to CH200...
:devil
I guess your one of those bitter old guys that just rolls over and settles for whats there. Why should we have to "settle" for poor game play? Why not try to educate the masses that there is a better way? We all know what happened the last time HTC "fixed" the slums the arena was becoming, what will his next fix be?Bitter? Please get yer head outa yer 6. Why would I be bitter? I enjoy every single flight. Maybe that's where we differ.
You missed the point. A dogfight happens to have an objective. Otherwise why be there? If you are loosing the fight then you find a way to reset the fight. If that means you extend to gain an advantage from a disadvantage then that is part of a dogfight. To sit there and say, "well he got on my 6 so I'll just go level and die because both I and he deserve what's about to happen" is pure BS (spelled bolshevik). If I extend and retake the initiative and shoot him done then guess what...He died. I didn't. That is a dogfight.
Not what Fugitive's saying.
Bitter? Please get yer head outa yer 6. Why would I be bitter? I enjoy every single flight. Maybe that's where we differ.and
If yer not liken what yer doing then what are you even doing here?
The most lame thing that could happen in this game is for someone to say how lame everyone is. :lol
Glad I don't do it. :)
Ren
You missed the point. A dogfight happens to have an objective. Otherwise why be there? If you are loosing the fight then you find a way to reset the fight. If that means you extend to gain an advantage from a disadvantage then that is part of a dogfight. To sit there and say, "well he got on my 6 so I'll just go level and die because both I and he deserve what's about to happen" is pure BS (spelled bolshevik). If I extend and retake the initiative and shoot him done then guess what...He died. I didn't. That is a dogfight. If you actually feel that because you happened to get an advantage on someone that you should then, and rightfully so (in your mind) be handed the kill. Then when I finally retire and can I really wanna start smokin whatever it is that you have.Aren't what Fugitive's saying.
Talk about a dream world..."i beat you for an instant so i deserve the kill, roll over and take it like a man" MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Well, I wasn't following the discussion, I just happened to read Ren's post. But I'd only agree with two of Fugitive's bullet list as written.
I plead guilty.
I do that sometimes to La-7's when flying a Tempest. I fly at 7.5k, where I can fly faster at MIL than they can do at WEP, then I just keep 'em at D1000... and drag 'em deeper and deeper into my country's territory, looking back over my shoulder with a big smile on my face. More sooner than later they run out of fuel and I tune to CH200...
:devil
48 pages and no finality. How shocking.
In fact I'll be frank and point out that this argument
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,262689.msg3287538.html#msg3287538
is the same flawed argument the horde mongerers and other dweebs have been repeating over and over.
:lol Why not just turn and kill him with the hispanos?
Could you be? Frank that is? I don't see what you're going on about?If you can't see how this is disingenuous, then I'm afraid it's not worth trying to argue:
Talk about a dream world..."i beat you for an instant so i deserve the kill, roll over and take it like a man" MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!In any case.. I don't care anymore. If the players just can't see plain simple basics of gameplay dynamics, like that bringing 20+ to a small field, and having such an unflexible sense of balance that they don't have the initiative to divert at least a fraction to some other target, is bad gameplay... When you've got experienced players dismissing the anti-gameplay patterns in the game by mischaracterizing the arguments brought up against those patterns.. Well.. I don't see the point in trying to argue, as far as I'm concerned.
I guess your one of those bitter old guys that just rolls over and settles for whats there. Why should we have to "settle" for poor game play? Why not try to educate the masses that there is a better way?
The point is to show the horses that they can turn in more than one direction. Not to make them leave their herd.
The proper furballers and war winners run in the same direction. Air combat. This distinction is one of the misunderstandings here. Dismissal of which is what I meant is disingenuous.
Sounds like a great use of time. :aok
Being part of a horde is just ridiculous. I try to stay away from these as I have enough trouble fighting the red guys without having to bump off friendlies also
I disagree, the only reason air combat is the common theme is because it is the only medium for both sides to express themselves. If a different medium was available the differences would be even more glaring.
The two groups have to find some mutually acceptable gameplay that doesn't affect the other negatively, but I'm not sure this will ever happen.
Nope... Furballers and War Winners both converge on Air Combat, to go on to different goals, but Air Combat is nonetheless both's bread and butter. I'm not sure what you envision as alternative mediums, but the bottom line is they don't exist, so they're a moot point.
Second, you said so yourself, you run to "reset the fight" so that means you have given up on the present one and are looking to make a new one. To me, like you said a fight is until one is dead, so I'd stay in the fight and try some of that "pilot crap" they talk about to turn the position around. Also like I said I end up in the tower often, which is ok with me.
How is air combat, and/or its building blocks (SA, gunnery, ACM, etc) a matter of group vs individual?
If AH was a tank sim, the furballers would be the guys hanging out at e.g. the urban areas of Tank Town in endless team deathmatch, whereas the strat players would be rolling combat forward against the other teams. Group tactics are not exclusive to either group. Combat tactics and strategy would still be the gameplay's building blocks.
That both sides are great and fun and respectful of one another is immaterial to whether air combat is the essence of gameplay in AH.
This is fundamentally wrong from a BFM standpoint. Given the choice between an abundance of "bad gameplay" players, and a virtual environment of arbitrary guidelines that lack common sense that totally butcher "ACM" so it fits in somones personal cubby hole of what they think it sould be, I'd choose the former.I doubt that's what he's talking about. The same way Boom & Zoom, or Bore & Snore are both "BNZ"
AH is (again) a medium and the way the two different groups approach combat within it is what makes them different.I'm sorry. Are you not reading what I write? They may both go their own ways, but combat is still where they converge before going on to separate goals. Combat is still the common means to their separate ends. You don't win a strat war by chatting with friends over vox, or typing on ch200, or .S'ing people. You wage the strat "war" and furball by moving your plane around and pulling the trigger every now and then. This is like arguing over whether 2+2 = 4 is because 2 and 4 are different numbers, or because of the mathematical premise of numbers theory.
Group tactics and individual ability are different animals and are rarely ever combined.Both are combat. Since you mention it though.. Hordes in the game are usually just random individual tactics multiplied by the horde's numbers. Poor teamwork.
What I said is as long as both sides are respectful of one another, good gameplay will be the outcome. I suppose you could have a 1v50 dogfight and it could be considered air combat, but that type of aircombat breeds nothing but contempt and boredom.That's contradictive. 1v50 dogfight is good gameplay if actors just stay respectful of one another. Like I said, gameplay and interpersonal dynamics are two related but separate things. Corelation but not causation.
I doubt that's what he's talking about. The same way Boom & Zoom, or Bore & Snore are both "BNZ"As you said earlier it's not black and white. There are several statements throughout that make the assumption that every reader is a 5th year player and knows the deal. However much of it is misleading to those not in the know due to lack of context. So you can call it dismissive or whatever, but I'm (as are most of the Trainers) quite serious about the bastardization of ACM to what some faction thinks it should be, or "[insert tactic] is lame" when in reality it is "lame" under X conditions and perfectly valid under Y conditions.
AH is (again) a medium and the way the two different groups approach combat within it is what makes them different.
Group tactics and individual ability are different animals and are rarely ever combined.
What I said is as long as both sides are respectful of one another, good gameplay will be the outcome. I suppose you could have a 1v50 dogfight and it could be considered air combat, but that type of aircombat breeds nothing but contempt and boredom.
As you said earlier it's not black and white. There are several statements throughout that make the assumption that every reader is a 5th year player and knows the deal. However much of it is misleading to those not in the know due to lack of context. So you can call it dismissive or whatever, but I'm (as are most of the Trainers) quite serious about the bastardization of ACM to what some faction thinks it should be, or "[insert tactic] is lame" when in reality it is "lame" under X conditions and perfectly valid under Y conditions.
Fugitive is an Aces high Member who cares about the game he plays, he devotes his time to better help the community, although it is in a different way than for instance, how I volunteer to help give back, as it is even different than say Bulethead's way or say Greebo's way of helping give back to the game we all love........
I clearly am not logging as many hours as I used to. I had fun tonite. I died a lot, fought on the deck pretty much constantly, and took a lot with me. I didn't think much about the overall scheme of things, just had fun. I need to remind myself to stick to that more often :)
That being said. One of the things that gets mentioned a lot is the community or the social dymamics of the game. That is what has changed the most to me since I first started in Airwarrior back in 96. Because of how the numbers have grown, the community as a whole has much less of an impact on the groups within the 'community. We don't get to know each other as well and the desire to fit in and be a part of the community is more based on finding the largest group to be in.
Today there are 100 people flying on your team, and unless you fly a lot, you barely know 20% of them.
Maybe thats another factor to why us old timers worked at getting better and the new guys don't.
Do you consider it a loss when the enemy holds all the cards (alt, turn rate/radius, acceleration)? I fly 38 vs the MA uber planes. Simple fact is if I dont have the E advantage, I win on the enemys mistakes. If they do not make a mistake and hold the plane type advantage, I use that E managment and angles cheat to disenngage. To do otherwise is silly.
...and also to re-engage from at least a neutral start. (cant edit from phone)
excuse me snipping the quotes.
First off, you are not getting to know people then clearly you should be more open and friendly to the 'new guys' even if it means sorting the wheat from the chaff.
Second, I think it is totaly bogus, your second sentance i quoted. It would be more fair to say that some of the old timers devoted to improving their flying while some clearly did not. Just the same as some of the new guys have devoted themself to flying better (tried dueling anyone new and good recently?) and some have not.
Oh, that's what I'm doing most of the time. Or better: I try, for occasionally I fail, the LA prevails and 50 perks are down the drain :D
Run, run, run, run, grow balls, turn around and HO. 50/50 chance of getting a kill. Maybe you might even make it out with most of your control surfaces and an intact radiator.
I dont know you all that well, Lusche, but what bothers me is that an AH Trainer is not only flying this way, but seemingly encouraging it.
Where do you read that from my post that I do "Run, run, run, run and HO?" or am encouraging such a thing?
Pee51 ran from a co-E, 1v1 engagement and I had to chase him for three sectors and through the AAA of two airfields and one vehicle base.
My bet is that the P51 you were chasing was having a ball dragging you around on a leash :devil
I plead guilty.
I do that sometimes to La-7's when flying a Tempest. I fly at 7.5k, where I can fly faster at MIL than they can do at WEP, then I just keep 'em at D1000... and drag 'em deeper and deeper into my country's territory, looking back over my shoulder with a big smile on my face.
:devil
:lol Why not just turn and kill him with the hispanos?
Oh, that's what I'm doing most of the time. Or better: I try, for occasionally I fail, the LA prevails and 50 perks are down the drain :D
Um... the cumulative discussion?
Example cited.
Suggestion that the P51 was running on purpose.
You state that you plead guilty to the behavior.
Grizz suggests that you just turn around and throw some hizzookas at him.
You confirm that that's pretty much what you do.
What did you miss?
going to the opposite end of the specrtum, and suggest utter stupidity is the "correct" way to fly.Murdr - I must've missed those posts where that's argued for?
Why were you one of five on me the other night?
Don't just type it. Do it.
suggest utter stupidity is the "correct" way to fly.
I turned into the 1.5k off hellcat and we started dancing...as I am avoiding the rope of the hellcat, I see tracers and look to see the pony has tried to steal this poor hellcats kill...he missed and went vert and I shot the hellcat at stall speed and was unable to move out of guns of the pony on its second pass....not horrible gameplay, but lame as hell....
The pony was coming back to nail you and maybe save the hellcat for bonus points. whats lame about that? You guys humping this thread along are entry level whiners of the highest order.most of the vets that I know, wouldnt want to chase 1 vs 1's around hoping to get a cherry or steal the friendlies kill, they would find it weakishly lame and cowardly....just saying.....I think you fly like Rocky, so it doesnt surprise me that you defend this way of playing from vets...btw, you did get that he followed a 1 vs 1 out 1/2 sector....right? :aok
Either that or you are all getting bored with the game. take a few months off.
Hell....maybe I need to take some time off....its all like a perpeptually broken record around here anymore. Game is still fun though.....
had a vet today in a p-51 follow behind me while I tried to drag a hellcat out where we could have a decent fight. The p-51 pulled up and off about 2.5k behind me, and appeared to be heading the 1/2 sector back to where there were plenty of planes.... so, I turned into the 1.5k off hellcat and we started dancing...as I am avoiding the rope of the hellcat, I see tracers and look to see the pony has tried to steal this poor hellcats kill...he missed and went vert and I shot the hellcat at stall speed and was unable to move out of guns of the pony on its second pass....not horrible gameplay, but lame as hell....the pony had followed us out the 1/2 sector into the sea to steal a kill, or simply try and get the easiest kill possible...this wasn't a newb...made me wonder, why would a vet waste the time following, trying to steal the kill, and then settling for a no-fight kill, when there were red and green fellas all over the furball where we had just left? Rocky is a vet, isn't he? :rolleyes:
What I miss?A lot of complaining.
had a vet today in a p-51 follow behind me while I tried to drag a hellcat out where we could have a decent fight. The p-51 pulled up and off about 2.5k behind me, and appeared to be heading the 1/2 sector back to where there were plenty of planes.... so, I turned into the 1.5k off hellcat and we started dancing...as I am avoiding the rope of the hellcat, I see tracers and look to see the pony has tried to steal this poor hellcats kill...he missed and went vert and I shot the hellcat at stall speed and was unable to move out of guns of the pony on its second pass....not horrible gameplay, but lame as hell....the pony had followed us out the 1/2 sector into the sea to steal a kill, or simply try and get the easiest kill possible...this wasn't a newb...made me wonder, why would a vet waste the time following, trying to steal the kill, and then settling for a no-fight kill, when there were red and green fellas all over the furball where we had just left? Rocky is a vet, isn't he? :rolleyes:Would that that P51 were me... I'd do it just to read the ch200 text buffer afterwards. :lol
Liar! About your motivation that is. You weren't trying to drag the Hellcat out 1v1 so you could have a "decent fight", you tried to drag him out so you could own him like a professional heavyweight boxer taking on an asthmatic 12 year old, and then chuckle evilly while stroking your beard and looking for the next victim! The P-51 gave you a chance to own two at a time, and then mock your victims on the internet, alas, the AHII Gods of fortune chose to piss in your general direction. It would frustrate me to.... :devil:rofl
Would that that P51 were me... I'd do it just to read the ch200 text buffer afterwards. :loland neither of you would stand a chance 1 vs 1 with me, so maybe I understand that angle...... :rofl
WTG Rocky, I'll bet it was entertaining :aok
asw
and neither of you would stand a chance 1 vs 1 with me, so maybe I understand that angle...... :rofl
Uhmm you are just making a lot of assumptions and reading a lot into my posts what's definitely not there.
First, I said "sometimes" about that "drag-the-La" thing. Which is a little dweebish fun I happen to do maybe once per tour, probably even less.
Grizz indeed asked why I just do not shoot him down with my hizookas. I said, that's what I'm triyng most of the time. Nowhere I stated I would run & HO - thats just your assumption.
The game, as it was, is forever dead. One can get used to the new watered down version or one can move on.
I dont think there is much to assume or read into.
Maybe I just know Grizz a bit better than you do. I feel pretty confident stating that; his mentioning of your overwhelming firepower, the typical tendency of both La7's and Tempests to go for the nose shot and, of course, the smiley face, clearly indicates that he is referring to a head on attack.
If he were to suggest that you actually turn around and fight, he would have written something very plainly to that effect without a tongue in his cheek.
Each to his own. Its your fifteen bucks, as they say.
Maybe you should have read my statements about that matter with the same scrutiny? ;)
Example: A CV arrives at an enemy base. The effort begins not to engage invaders but to sink the CV. Shore battery, Lanc Stukas etc. For far too many, first priority is to sink the CV.
The bad guys were furballing and furiously trying to sink the cv. We were furballing and defending.
Example: A CV arrives at an enemy base. The effort begins not to engage invaders but to sink the CV. Shore battery, Lanc Stukas etc. For far too many, first priority is to sink the CV. 30 or more people are having a blast just tangling on the wavetops and some group of guys bomb the CV, sink it, then announce on country channel that they've sunk the CV, thus saving base A234 from being taken; as if losing 1 out of 90 some odd bases will somehow effect the outcome of the "war".
Another classic: 2 bases in close proximity have a furball ebbing back and forth between them. 20 or more people are cutting the grass, planes fighting from 10k down to the deck.. people having a blast. Someone flies overhead and kills the FH's then proudly proclaims what they've done. You ask them if they are going to take the base.... they tell you: No just taking the pressure off. You explain to them that there was no need to kill the FH's, everyone was having a good time. They call you an idiot.
I'm going to try every trick I know to turn the tables back to my advantage short of leaving the fight.
Also, if you egress from a fight, you wouldn't come back a gang a guy, but that is what the newbs are looking to do.
On the other hand, if the guy that runs is a newb and is running because he doesn't know any other tricks, and is looking to reset the fight by having the opponent become occupied by a couple of other players so he could gang with little fear of getting shot down himself, then I would call that lame.
Murdr, out of curiosity, which ones on my list would you NOT consider lame and why? That was the reason I put up a list as a starting point of discussion. Sure there is some gray area involved in everything, but I'd still like to hear yours, as well as others, reasoning.* HOs lame
AW Had diffenet types of head on gunnery, durring most of the time I was playing AW HO hits were not thrown out. but a person got a 3 wingspan buble for hits from the rear and a 1 wingspan bubble from the front quater.* spawn camping lame It's part of any game. Unlike any old game, there are mulitple options for dealing with it.
People also seem to forget how with no collisions in AW, you would could head on in AW flying right threw the apponent with no worries of impact.
When a change was made to the randomly throwing out hits was the end of my FW flying days. Not because I liked to head on, but it took a very valid tatic away. In those days I would use a pure head on when ever I was at a disavantage. I.E. just finished a fight, slow on dec. and a spit is comming in. You can be sure I would take the head on in that case, because it was my only option if the guy wanted to fly right at me, and I had no speed to turn or manuver with him. But even more important than the pure head on was how it totaly removed the rope a dope. Against a resonable aponent ropes and using the vertical became almost inposible, because everone would just wait, and point there nose at you knowing there chances of being hit was very low, even thow they were stalled was required no lead to shoot them.
Believe it or not, this example is very bad. #1, please submit film you have that shows no LVT's in the water while your cv is at my base........
How do you construe getting up to a couple thousand yards separation as leaving the fight?
I can understand flying with the attitude of our cartoon life meaning something. I think we all do to some extent, but there is a fine line there. Value the life too much and your always looking for better odds before engaging in a fight, value it too little and your running around with your hair on fire to get more kills before you die to keep your k/d above boards.
I fly for the fight. If while working on 2 bad guys a third and forth show up, I have no trouble diving into the ack, or extending to drag out the fight to get the numbers better. What I do have trouble with is those that will dive out because they know your about to "remove large chunks from their planes", but turn back after you have turned your attention to his two buddies who have stayed in the fight.
This game is suppose to be about fighting, not running away from one, not hiding from one, not avoiding one by use of over whelming numbers, nor throwing your cartoon life away with arcade type flying, but just plain old fighting.
It has always been that way. Doesn't make it cool, but there's nothing new there.
Would you mind not trying to redefine what is meant by "reseting the fight". We do actually use that term to teach ya know. Maybe that's the wrong thing though...Maybe HT would be happier if the 3+ month rate of subscribed accounts declined a bit, because telling them to beat their head against the wall and just keep yanking on the stick when they are almost certian to fail is the cool thing to do.
You missed the point. A dogfight happens to have an objective. Otherwise why be there? If you are loosing the fight then you find a way to reset the fight. If that means you extend to gain an advantage from a disadvantage then that is part of a dogfight. To sit there and say, "well he got on my 6 so I'll just go level and die because both I and he deserve what's about to happen" is pure BS (spelled bolshevik). If I extend and retake the initiative and shoot him done then guess what...He died. I didn't. That is a dogfight. If you actually feel that because you happened to get an advantage on someone that you should then, and rightfully so (in your mind) be handed the kill. Then when I finally retire and can I really wanna start smokin whatever it is that you have.
Talk about a dream world..."i beat you for an instant so i deserve the kill, roll over and take it like a man" MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
In a dogfight it's not over until someone goes down in flames. Period.
ps- you gotta tell me what yer on so I can start saving for it. :rofl
I'm sure glad it's not your football...No one would be playing here.
Ren
* HOs lame
Wayyyy to vauge. Head on attack is a valid tactic. That said, it has an inherent drawback. It places you in the enemies line of fire. So typically it is not the best choice. Secondly, death in the game (and rightly so) does not carry a harsh penalty, and scoring is based on killing/damaging the enemy. So it ends up being used unrealisticly in the game. Sometimes however, it is the best choice (and usually the only one left). Might as well throw in an HT quote...
* spawn camping lame It's part of any game. Unlike any old game, there are mulitple options for dealing with it.
* being the 6th guy in on a single bad guy lame Wow, is it 6 now? I remember in AW when one would be ashamed to be the thrid guy on an enemy. I agree btw.
* bringing a CV close enough to dry spawn lame It's part of the game mechanics, unless HTC wants to remove it, deal with it.
* hiding captured CVs lame There's a tool for diagreement on that. It's called pulling rank. Last time I pulled rank, I moved the CV out of combat effectively to hide it. Had I not done so, we were in jeprody of losing all CVs in the eastern waters of Trinity. When a home port was secured, I set course back to the combat zone, and gave up command.
It hasn't always been this bad, and what wrong with pointing out that running from a fight only to return when you have superior numbers is lame?
If you want to egress a couple thousand yards go for it, its how you want to play, me I prefer to do some of that "pilot crap".E management and SA (knowing when this isn't going to work) is "pilot crap" too and fundamentally no less important than pure angles.
I agree, but while you and I and many others "know"I'd say to the contrary you're being to general. Not everyone browsing the thread will know what "you and I know". One one hand there's the thought that these new players need taught, but on the other is complaining and denegrating options that should be availible to them no matter how frequent or rare it is appropriate. When you start removing options from acm it has a chain reaction. Let's say HO's are impossible. Now everyone is free to preturn the merge without concequence. Let's say you MUST merge and immediately reverse into an enemy. You observe the enemy burning his E and will cut inside you. Now what? The text book counter is you laugh at him foolishly burning his E while you assume and maintain an energy advantage. But instead, everyone is burning energy like mad to get quick angles. Some would say stuff like that is a "real fight". It's a corruption of air combat. So I have a little pause here when I see a discussion that includes both the idea that these new players need taught, and we're going to just cut out the fundamentals of air combat that we don't care for because that's not how real men fight. I seriously do find it disturbing.
----
Understandable in that situation, but like most of these things your being to specific.
This could go on forever. The fact is that the game has changed. More players means more bad players. The quaint, small dogfights of the past are gone. All things change, it's just the way it is.
How many people respect a 1v1? 5%?
Don't HO on first merge? 5%?
Will allow a stricken plane to land? 1%?
Come into a furball under 10K? 20%?
Will switch sides to no longer be part of the horde? 2%?
The game used to be about the fight. I'm not sure what it's about now but it's not about the fight.
Example: A CV arrives at an enemy base. The effort begins not to engage invaders but to sink the CV. Shore battery, Lanc Stukas etc. For far too many, first priority is to sink the CV. 30 or more people are having a blast just tangling on the wavetops and some group of guys bomb the CV, sink it, then announce on country channel that they've sunk the CV, thus saving base A234 from being taken; as if losing 1 out of 90 some odd bases will somehow effect the outcome of the "war".
Another classic: 2 bases in close proximity have a furball ebbing back and forth between them. 20 or more people are cutting the grass, planes fighting from 10k down to the deck.. people having a blast. Someone flies overhead and kills the FH's then proudly proclaims what they've done. You ask them if they are going to take the base.... they tell you: No just taking the pressure off. You explain to them that there was no need to kill the FH's, everyone was having a good time. They call you an idiot.
The game, as it was, is forever dead. One can get used to the new watered down version or one can move on.
I agree about dropping FHs at a base. As regards to dropping a CV, I must disagree. What else is one to do when the CV is being used to shell YOUR hangars down while pooping out LVTs, the CV planes are flying a pattern in their ack, and 5 inch gunmen are killing you, perhaps even on the runway? To say nothing of the inane behavior of the auto puffy....
Well see, thats the thing.
There used to be a time when people didnt park CV's on the beach or waste time in a gun emplacement. A CV was simply a medium by which to minimize flight time to a fight.
yup, used to log on to see a cv fight, and would get hours of good fun furballing in before some banana decided we'd had enough fun and sink it.
Yep.. before his time.
would anyone like a pint of guinness?who needs a book of world records?
in my opinion there is no lame tactics besides really gaming the game.
everything can be countered, see the good posts by murdr.
bothersome are whines about "bad gameplay" that are only subjective bad.
would anyone like a pint of guinness?Yes me! If you're paying... :O
who needs a book of world records?
Yes me! If you're paying... :O
"If you want to egress a couple thousand yards go for it, its how you want to play, me I prefer to do some of that "pilot crap". "
Your idea of "pilot crap" might be the whole problem. You have it in your mind of exactly what you think game play should be and anyone who is not playing it your way is not doing pilot crap. Hence the whines.
Coming from one who's been doing this for many years I can only tell you that if your burnt out then take a month off. But, don't try to tell anyone and everyone who will listen to your drivel whats lame or not.
I already said it once, do something about besides whinin on the boards.
Personally I think you can get around 80 pages out of yer whinin...let's see what happens...
Ren
I am beginning to wonder if this one is going to set a record. By the way what is the record for most posts? Anybody know?
I am beginning to wonder if this one is going to set a record. By the way what is the record for most posts? Anybody know?
In a single thread: 3646, but that was a non-AH related thread in Oclub.
The longest thread so far in AH General discussions had 1009 replies.
This thread is ranking at #5 so far.
How far to #4?
How far to #4?
The game will never be what it used to be.
Only 2 klicks when viewing the AH General Discussion forum to find out yourself ;)
I don't know what I did to piss you off Ren, and I really couldn't care less. Your blind hatred of me has stopped you from reading and comprehending what I typed. My idea of a fight is just a smaller zone than yours, AND THATS FINE ! You want to extend, by all means EXTEND!
If you wish to continue the ankle humping, I'm sure you'll be able to find me in another thread. <S>
I dont care who you are.Rocket kills are COOL!! :rofl
I think Murdr will agree with me in that vulching with rockets is quite enjoyable and the whines it creates on channel 200 is like an elixer for the soul.
ack-ack
still got beechslapped each time.... bad game play.Was he having fun?
Point was missed... He had top E in the area, rockets, was in a 4 hog and still got beechslapped each time.... bad game play.
What?? Using a rocket is the second coolest method of vulching. First being dropping 100lb bombs on the runway spawn from 15,000k. Third coolest vulch method is a tank on the field.
Extra bonus points for vulches using the tail gun of the Ar234.
:rock
Was he having fun?
I think Murdr will agree with me in that vulching with rockets is quite enjoyable and the whines it creates on channel 200 is like an elixer for the soul.
ack-ack
Nothing like lobbing a rocket from 3.5k out, and taking the vulch out from under the noses of other vulchers who were a lot closer :D
if the ack is cleared yeee haw! go for it. I usually turn on topgun music when im doin that kinda thing. 1 rocket cant get the shot, bank right. :aok splash 4
Hahaha, yeah, I've gotta agree with this.
Cons in the air? Better lose the rockets.... Rocket vulching? Hahaha. Priceless.
:noid
Since this thread is now on its 56th page, I figured I might as well post once in it,... so...um...yeah...
:noid:noid
The lamest of BAD-GAMEPLAY
I was running a mission into a knight base..NOE as I tend to do..Nothing seemed to be going on and rooks and nits were fighting hard on a 3 base front..Rooks were surrounded by 2 nit bases..So I am thinking while they are busy,I will roll into a nit base close,but dont want to distrub their fighting..
So mission rolls and WHO appears at a town at A NIT base?? Members of the lynchmob..
And they commence to killing the goons,and unfortunetly caused the base to not get captured..I know,I know,good nor nits,bad for us..
Well,I call shade/spy and I will tell you why..Their excuse was that they were doing a fighter sweep into the base..this does not hold water..unless they were just chasing ghosts..or an NOE they knew about beforehand..
The following pic will support what I am saying..
(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k393/FALCON23_album/ahss82.jpg)
They are using the excuse that they did a fighter sweep into #3 base which is 51.
They came out of 27.(circled base)
They said the reason for said fighter sweep when called on it was to get pressure off of 27..with about 4 guys...
SO instead of going out of base #4(A25) into #1(A26) or #2(A52),they feel the need to fly a sector to an at the time they left quiet base,no dar in the sector,or anything to say fighters were coming from there and this was going to take the pressure off of A27...
I have heard some lame excuses in my life,but this has to be the lamest of all,and for the worst game-play I have ever seen..There is no other way they would of known that A mission was going into the nit base except for a spy/shade..
Now we have lynchmob fighting on rooks and defending for nits from bish missions with shades/spys.. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
56 pages. We haven't come to a decision yet?
Me thinks we had it figured out in the first post. It's all subjective.
So basically what you are saying is, NOE is undefendable. If it gets sniffed out, somebody cheated.
The reason NOE is so effective is because people generally don't pay $15 to play Tower General and study the map for suspicious activities.
This isn't WW2. There aren't actual field scouts surveying the countryside and radioing in the sneak attacks to headquarters. It just doesn't work like that in this combat game. The MA detection methods for NOE simply aren't transparent enough. A small base flashing on a map with over 100 bases? Who is going to take the time to study it? Not me. Not the average Joe. I'd rather find a fight. NOE is taking advantage of the way the main arena operates.
To be honest I'm glad your mission got busted.
Apparently you are not getting what Falcon talking about, we have no problem with our missions being busted, it is how this particular squad is doing it time after time, that is the problem....<knee-wall o'text removed>Ah, so you have a spy problem. (This ought to be good for at least another 10 or 15 pages).
[sarcasm]
[sarcasm]
Oh NO!!! You actually are having to fight the enemy in order to get a field capture?
Oh the horror!
I know how rough that has gota be for y'all and you have my condolences.
[/sarcasm]
Ah, so you have a spy problem. (This ought to be good for at least another 10 or 15 pages).
It sounds to me like all the NOE's you've been running has pissed somebody off who's decided that rather than lamely run to the bbs where others have whined before, decided instead to put some effort into figuring out a way to have their fun putting a stop to your type of fun. Here's an idea: use what you've learned about them and lay a trap. You never know, the ensuing fight just might be fun too.
asw
It sounds to me like all the NOE's you've been running has pissed somebody off who's decided that rather than lamely run to the bbs where others have whined before, decided instead to put some effort into figuring out a way to have their fun putting a stop to your type of fun.:aok
I was running a mission into a knight base..NOE as I tend to do..Nothing seemed to be going on and rooks and nits were fighting hard on a 3 base front..Rooks were surrounded by 2 nit bases..So I am thinking while they are busy,I will roll into a nit base close,but dont want to distrub their fighting..:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
So mission rolls and WHO appears at a town at A NIT base?? Members of the lynchmob :OBye, the way we like the knights. fun group of guys,lot of good sticks
And they commence to killing the goons :furious :furious :furious :furious:lol :lol :lol :D
I have heard some lame excuses in my life,but this has to be the lamest of all,and for the worst game play I have ever seen-running a mission into a knight base..NOE as I tend to do..Nothing seemed to be going on and rooks and nits were fighting hard on a 3 base front..Rooks were surrounded by 2 nit bases..So I am thinking while they are busy,I will roll into a nit base close,but dont want to distrub their fighting..run a noe mission into a furball and get :mad:when you get jumped :lol
Bye, the way we like the knights. fun group of guys,lot of good sticks
:run a noe mission into a furball and get :mad:when you get jumped :lol
We are not mad about being jumped, we figured that the only way you can beat us is getting around the parameters of the game. :uhoh
Let me make it simple for you so you can understand "no wait I can't" your too simple to begin with. :rolleyes: :lol :lol :rofl :rofl
Like I said in my previous post, MA noe detection methods simply aren't transparent enough nor is there enough time to mount a reasonable counter atttack.
I believe just the opposite is true , on both counts.
I believe just the opposite is true , on both counts.
NOE's are transparent enough and there is no need to make any changes to the dar system. I have gutted many an incoming NOE mission in my trusty Wirbel with little or no help. As far as spying, I feel that it is poor form, but not against the rules. The intrigue and fallout from "spying" is always entertaining to say the least.
Imo running NOEs are somewhat taking advantage of the parameters of the game. Like I said in my previous post, MA noe detection methods simply aren't transparent enough nor is there enough time to mount a reasonable counter attack.
As for spying, HTC allows you to switch sides once an hour. Has HTC ever said spying is against the rules? I'm not sure but I haven't seen it. Is it bending the rules and poor form reporting in another team's missions? Yes, but maybe in this particular case two wrongs make a right.
Must have been a crappy NOE raid you stopped. And was probably a situation of "right place at the right time"
Hello Grizz,
I am talking multiple NOE's, not a single crappy one. I am sure that there are some Rooks and Bishops that will confirm this for you. I usually confont one or more per night. While flying and driving I constantly monitor the map. I keep track of what groups are operating where, and try to put 2 and 2 together with the map status. Unfortunately, my 2 and 2 sometimes equals a 3 or a 5, you know... :lol
:salute
Way
So it takes a lot of effort and a good map reader to figure these things out. Even so, a single wirble should not be able to stop an effective NOE raid. You still need pilots willing to auger along with you to stop the raid. The complexities in defending against DO NOT balance the simplicities of running NOE and succeeding in it. Bolded for truth.
Every argument you have made for why your behavior is 'acceptable' can be made for those busting your missions. I find the irony hillarious.
NOE missions are super easy to bust, and they get clobbered all the time. All it takes is one LA-7 to come screaming out and go right for the goon, which is the Achilles heal of NOE missions.
Or if one person sees a base flashing without DAR they can be fairly sure an NOE is coming in. All they need to do gain about 3,000 feet of alt over the base, of which there is ample time to do so.
Once that happens, the NOE mission is helpless. They are low on the deck and can be picked off one by one with B/z attacks. I've seen it happen countless times.
Base and town begin flashing once any element of the NOE is within dar range. Your typical NOE will be 110's or Mossies, and that gives about 5 minutes of warning before they can get to the town.
In other words, the NOE is not some quirky part of the game that can't be foiled.
If the win-the-war and land grabbing isn't your thing, NOE missions just are just boring as hell. I mean you shoot some buildings and make a capture.
As far as 'spying' is concerned, I don't believe it happens all that often. Mostly because I think it is boring duty for the 'spy'. Most people just want to play, and who really cares 'that much' about map resets, there is just another map to follow until eternity.
The reason there are no 'rules' against spying however, is because it is impossible to stop someone determined to do it. Even if cross country comms between players was removed, how would you stop someone from calling their friend on a cell phone.
sent wave after wave, gang after gang to mow you down all night. I'm sure nobody would find it at all fun. Play how you want, just dont dictate how others play.
Funny, sounds like the last "missions" from dredger and falcon.
Why I am posting in this thread, I dunno. I was hoping this would die last week.
NOE busting is really not rocket science. 2 guys to look for on the roster that are gauranteed to be running those types missions is Falcon23 and GHI.
(G makes me nervous when hes on though being his are much harder to bust). Falcon though is very very predictable. When the bish front becomes quiet all of the sudden, its usually a tell tale sign that there is a NOE out there being he usually takes 1/2 the bish roster with him for 1 base.
Why would you pay money to play an online air combat flight sim, if your goal is to avoid contact with other people?
Didn't popeye the sailor say 'if you can't beat em, join em'
No one said it is rocket science but it requires map studying effort constantly to find them. If you study the map deliberately every minute or so for a couple hours during prime time you might uncover an NOE and have a chance to bust it up. Is it really worth the headache though?These guys run missions all night and I do mean all night. Is it worth it? Do you think 20 heavy 110s on the deck as well as niks and goons is anything like having the keys to the candy is..then yes.
Why I am posting in this thread, I dunno.
Dunno, but Scotch said "You suck."
What is funny though is even if you neuter the mission by killing the goons, they still go for town instead of engaging the cons.
Only when it calls for it.
You suck.
Woah what have i BEEN MISSING?!!??! 59 PAGE?!
What's going on here.. give me a summary. Tonyjoey you troublemaker i know its you.. or kazaa.. or strokes, or ..
lol has anyone noticed that page in TJ's sig? it has a death counter. totally tubular hell christians are some morbid fujkkers.
Yes I know, you've said so twice already. Do you have anything else to offer or should we keep it to the parochial playground banter.
Interestingly you have heard of me, yet I can't say I've ever heard of you. I am flattered. :rock
Let me explain to you a scenario how a NOE is detectable and defendable 1Boner.
A tower general studies the map and suspiciously notices a base is flashing with no dar bar. He realizes it is an NOE raid and yells out on country channel NOE RAID11!! A57 need Fighters! Now, 10-15 pilots point their planes 90 degrees towards the ground and auger their mission just to up at A57 within the window of opportunity to stop the raid. Raid stopped.
So in order to effectively stop the raid you need A) A player not playing the game studying the map (paying $15 to inspect the map)... :huh and B) 10-15 Pilots willing to just auger their planes for the chance of stopping this NOE raid... :huh
You think this is reasonable strategy to defend against the NOE attack?
You don't have to expain it to me, I play this game too.
And if you truley believe the quote above, I have a question for you.
What game are YOU playing??
Griz described it perfectly.
The only way to defend against a NOE raid is to have people either sitting in the tower available or players willing to just auger and go help break it up. I personally will pretty much never auger to defend vs. a mission. (I might ditch though) I also don't think many players will just nose it into the ground to up and defend vs. the NOE mission. Not many players are willing to just sit in the tower and wait for a NOE mission to smash. (I know I would get bored after 5min)
The NOE mission people COUNT on the above because, as it has been proven over and over and over and over, if the base gets defended, they probably won't capture it. That is why to also go out of their way to pick fields that are away from the action and have a higher probability of getting snuck.
What game are YOU playing?
What is even more pathetic is when they send 2-3 bomber fomations ahead of time and kill the hangers right before the NOE mission arrives. It is bad enough they are in a hoard attacking a field with little to no defenders, but they kill all the hangers because they are afraid it WILL get defended and they know if that happens, they are going to probably fail.
Missions like that tell me one of two things.
1) the mission planner is afraid of how good the enemy is so they go to great lengths to remove them from the picture.
2) the mission planner is afraid of how bad the friendlies are in the mission so they go to great lengths to remove any bad guys from the picture.
It's not "tactics" it's "fear".
Blah blah blah, you suck.
Griz described it perfectly.
The NOE mission people COUNT on the above because, as it has been proven over and over and over and over, if the base gets defended, they probably won't capture it. That is why to also go out of their way to pick fields that are away from the action and have a higher probability of getting snuck.
What game are YOU playing?
What is even more pathetic is when they send 2-3 bomber fomations ahead of time and kill the hangers right before the NOE mission arrives. It is bad enough they are in a hoard attacking a field with little to no defenders, but they kill all the hangers because they are afraid it WILL get defended and they know if that happens, they are going to probably fail.
Missions like that tell me one of two things.
1) the mission planner is afraid of how good the enemy is so they go to great lengths to remove them from the picture.
2) the mission planner is afraid of how bad the friendlies are in the mission so they go to great lengths to remove any bad guys from the picture.
It's not "tactics" it's "fear".
So does your mother, whats your point?
You this is funny not only are you incorrect in how we do things you have no clue of our operations, last night we did a 15k mission into A10 full dar bar plenty of warning and took the base with ease, they defended and also brought in fighters from two adjacent bases and we still took the base and may I add with no bombers, I'll you tell what if your on line and in the same arena I will let you know by PM the next mission we are doing, we have no fear of you or anybody, we don't care about our scores so we can be killed without FEAR slick.
Don't believe me TUFF nothing I can do about that.
Griz described it perfectly.
The only way to defend against a NOE raid is to have people either sitting in the tower available or players willing to just auger and go help break it up. I personally will pretty much never auger to defend vs. a mission. (I might ditch though) I also don't think many players will just nose it into the ground to up and defend vs. the NOE mission. Not many players are willing to just sit in the tower and wait for a NOE mission to smash. (I know I would get bored after 5min)
The NOE mission people COUNT on the above because, as it has been proven over and over and over and over, if the base gets defended, they probably won't capture it. That is why to also go out of their way to pick fields that are away from the action and have a higher probability of getting snuck.
What game are YOU playing?
What is even more pathetic is when they send 2-3 bomber fomations ahead of time and kill the hangers right before the NOE mission arrives. It is bad enough they are in a hoard attacking a field with little to no defenders, but they kill all the hangers because they are afraid it WILL get defended and they know if that happens, they are going to probably fail.
Missions like that tell me one of two things.
1) the mission planner is afraid of how good the enemy is so they go to great lengths to remove them from the picture.
2) the mission planner is afraid of how bad the friendlies are in the mission so they go to great lengths to remove any bad guys from the picture.
It's not "tactics" it's "fear".
You're kidding me right?
Talk about being brainwashed.
You're kidding me right?
Talk about being brainwashed.
:lol
You've already demonstrated a complete ignorance in other threads for the combat aspect of this game and will argue against advocates of it regardless of the argument or the large quantities of logic contained. You've 'picked your side' and even if you have no counter argument (like this one in particular) you will just respond with 'no, no, you are wrong'. Pathetic.