Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: brady on April 02, 2003, 03:55:29 PM
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This Friday were going to rerun the Slot set up, it was very popular last time have 100 pluss on some nights so were going to rerun it. The plane set will feature the F4F-4 and the A6M2, with the P40E at one rear base. The plane set is not negotiable:)
The rest of the plane set will be as it was before.
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blah. i liked the one that had tonys and hogs as well... perhaps if the hogs and tonys were semi-limited and perked?
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Good Deal:)
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I'll take a PTO any way I can get it, but please perk the P40e, it really disrupts the balance in the set up.
The F4F4 vs. A6M2 is a good match, wildcat is faster, better diver, better guns and can take a lot of punishment, while the Zeke is the ultimate turn machine. When you add the P40e you add a plane that, if flown correctly, completely outclasses the zeke.
The practical affect is that as dogfites between wildcats and zekes rage, P40's swoop in taking pot shots at zekes. As a zeke pilot, if you ignore the P40, he kills you and if you move off the wildcat he gets position on you and probably kills you.
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I would really like to see some F6s and some F4Us we hardly ever see these in the ct anymore, give the IJN and the IJAA some planes to fly against these, maybe some LW loaners, just something!
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The P40 is limited to one rear base, personaly I dont think perking is very effective in limiting a planes use, people like Shane who are god's in the cockpit will always have enough perks for the good rides:)
The problem with the Late war set up's in the PTO is the 45 to 85 mph spead advantage the Hog's have over thier Japanese counter part's, the Hellcat is Not nearly as bad it is only like around 10mph faster than the George. Unfortunalty HTC Neauterd the George do to allied whines and it is a slug now.
PTO's are very dificult for us to do without creating a lopsided plane set, the F4F-4 vs the A6M2 is the best match up we can do, and even that is porked since most of the planes facing the Wildcats in the slot were A6M3's and HTC has undermodled the effectivenss of the Type 99 MK I cannon's in the A6M2.
The Hellcat and the George set up is on papper prety good, and I am shure we will have somthing coming for this in the future, even the Tony is slower by aprox 20mph than the Hellcat.
Now spead is not everything, but with such huge preformance differences it can be.
Fear not Hog lover's I am shure Hogs will be included in the late war set up's for the PTO.
As I mentioned in an earler post we have a great late war PTO map in the work's, Kantoriee is slaving away on it as we type:)_
If you late war Blue plane types want good match up's campagine for more late war Japanese planes to be added to AH.:)
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I sent up the source files on Mon.. got email from Skuzzy this morning that he will build it today or tomarrow.
You will need to re-download terrain.
Fixed A32
removed salvo island.
added or subtracted ships as per Jordi and Skernsk.
Moved ship starting points closer to respective ports.
Some art changes.
Replaced listing for vh hanger being used as fighter hangers to... fighter hangers.. (works now)
Thx Bradys for using the Slot again. I was hoping you would go with all pac.. Just perk the better planes.. f6f and niki..
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Originally posted by HiJack
I would really like to see some F6s and some F4Us we hardly ever see these in the ct anymore, give the IJN and the IJAA some planes to fly against these, maybe some LW loaners, just something!
F6s? F4Us? huh? what are those???
Brady j/k (sorta):D
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Originally posted by brady
PTO's are very dificult for us to do without creating a lopsided plane set...
Fear not Hog lover's I am shure Hogs will be included in the late war set up's for the PTO...
If you late war Blue plane types want good match up's campagine for more late war Japanese planes to be added to AH.:)
Yeah, I know at least ONE guy that wouldnt mind seeing F4U-4's against Ki-84's Nik2's, and the Raiden..but no one ever listens to me...:(
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It is an awsome map 10Bear's.
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From the perspective on one who'll be in the a6m-2 all week...I'm with Naj.
Put the P40 at one distant base and perk it.
You don't think perking effectively limits planes. Fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But fwiw, I haven't exactly seen a slew of 51-Ds or Ta-152s this week in the CT. Coincidence? Perhaps. But what's the harm in perking the unbalancing plane? Let the hot sticks earn it.
Splash1
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Cmon guys the last two PTOs have been P-40 A6M2 Hurri or P-40 A6M2 F4F.
You got three other Japanese fighters LETS SEE THEM! The A6M2 everytime is a yawner. Give the Allies the F6F, and F-4u1,, give the Japs the A6M5, and Ki-61 three times in a roll is BS!!!!!!!!!
Everytime you do this you limit the Japanese to one stinkin plane it gets boring, and it blows!
For crying out loud I wish they never included the A6M2 in AH. Give us a break!!!!!
Hmmm nope I don't feel better after that rant. One freakin fighter to choose from on is BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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P40E is around 276 on the deck and the A6m2 is around 275 on the deck. Most combat takes place low.
The plane( P40E) is limited to one rear base, as I mentioned above twice.
The P40E is not an unbalancing plane, we have run set up's with it and the A6M2 as the primary rides, it is limited mostly in this set up do to the fact that the set up is intended to focuse on the F4F-4 vs the Zero.
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lowe, I am sory you feal this way i wish we had more tools to work with.
We also had A Huge attandance with this set up last time it ran.
As I mentioned above:
The problem with the Late war set up's in the PTO is the 45 to 85 mph spead advantage the Hog's have over thier Japanese counter part's, the Hellcat is Not nearly as bad it is only like around 10mph faster than the George. Unfortunalty HTC Neauterd the George do to allied whines and it is a slug now.
PTO's are very dificult for us to do without creating a lopsided plane set, the F4F-4 vs the A6M2 is the best match up we can do, and even that is porked since most of the planes facing the Wildcats in the slot were A6M3's and HTC has undermodled the effectivenss of the Type 99 MK I cannon's in the A6M2.
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Unfortunalty HTC Neauterd the George do to allied whines and it is a slug now.
Right.. whatever makes you sleep at night. :rolleyes:
HTC has undermodled the effectivenss of the Type 99 MK I cannon's in the A6M2.
Gee! Someone better tell TheBug this. Wasn't that long ago I saw him land a streak of 5 with the A6M2.
Well at least it's PTO anyway.
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Brady.
Thats the kicker for me the A6M2 is meat on the table to an F4F. The guns suck , a few seconds of decent firepower against the F4Fs constant stream of 50 cals is a joke. Add to the fact the toughness of the F4F , it's like shooting an anvil. The 100 plus people was this due to the popularity or the main dumping? Plus were the sides even?
I know this isnt going to change your minds, but the F6F , A6M5 watchup has always been a good one. One I havent seen any complaints about. This would be a great setup with the addition of the A6M5, KI-61 , F6F off one or two CV's F4F off the others, the F4U1 early model from land bases. You could still keep the P-40E, and YUCK A6M2.
It's just a whine I appreciate all you guys do, I just wish you'd lay off the A6M2 only PTO's for a while. Besides I know there are a lot of people that don't like squads in the CT, but VF-27, 880FAA, and the 13th Sentai do alot to support this arena, the F4U, F6F, and Ki-61 are their rides.
I know I know whaa whaa whaa.:p
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you forgot the 109's ....
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"Thats the kicker for me the A6M2 is meat on the table to an F4F. The guns suck , a few seconds of decent firepower against the F4Fs constant stream of 50 cals is a joke."
Ya I agree, but it is as good as it get's at present.
"Add to the fact the toughness of the F4F , it's like shooting an anvil."
Yup.
"The 100 plus people was this due to the popularity or the main dumping? Plus were the sides even?"
I flew the whole week last time we ran this and we had good numbers all week, esoichaly on Squad nights whear the CT hit 100 on both Tuesday and Thursday, I check and the Main was still up at those times.
"I know this isnt going to change your minds, but the F6F , A6M5 watchup has always been a good one. One I havent seen any complaints about."
Well the same problems exist between the Hellcat and the A6M5 as exist between the Wildcat and the A6M2, except that their even worse the hellcat is aproximatly 35 mph faster than the A6M5 on the deck and while the guns are better on the A6M5 they are not hugly so.
The Early Model F4U is the fastest of all it compleatly domanates the Tony and the Zero's Being faster than the tony by aprox 50mph and around 70 mph faster than the A6M5.
The Tony and the Hellcat are not to bad a match up, the Hellcat is faster by aroud 15 to 20 mph, but it out excelerates the Tony to boot which gives them an advantage, but still they are a prety good match up, if the Hellcat fights and doesent run away like I see them do all the time when fighting them.
I guarintee we will not be doing this plane set for a while after this though.
Skyfoxx, the George was neuterd by HTC over a year ago now.
Click on the blue Cannon link bellow.
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Have to agree with Lowe on this one.
The guys that like the Corsairs, Hellcats & later war Japanese a/c should get to fly their a/c just like everyone else. It's only fair. As our squad is dedicated to fly Japanese planes during the PTO set-up's I wouldn't mind seeing the late war planes myself.
We had the "Slot" map in the last PTO set-up in the CT. Time for a change IMO. The Big Pacific map gives everyone almost everthing they want. F4U-1's & P-40E's from landbases, F6F & F4F's or even Seafires from the CV's versus the A6M5 & KI-61.
Alot of stats have banded about about the aircraft in the early war PTO - but it is not the a/c - it is the US .50cal vs. the dumbed down Japanese cannons on the A6M2. Yes, some can rack up 5 kills in one sortie but at the same time I have seen 3 different A6M2's unload their whole cannon load into a fleeing Wildcat from point blank and he kept hauling prettythang back to his buddies. You can't say that is right no matter how much you believe it.
As for numbers: If I remember correctly the late war PTO's with the above described plane set was also very popular with both sides and is pretty evenly matched.
Time to switch up CT crew, the "Slot" is getting old.
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If you late war Blue plane types want good match up's campagine for more late war Japanese planes to be added to AH.
We already do. They arent coming anytime soon. It sounds like we want a late war PTO to me. We cant have a plane because its faster than another? Call it Allied whining and dismiss us if you want, oh wait, Jester and Lowe fly Axis. Let us play.
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"The guys that like the Corsairs, Hellcats & later war Japanese a/c should get to fly their a/c just like everyone else. It's only fair. As our squad is dedicated to fly Japanese planes during the PTO set-up's I wouldn't mind seeing the late war planes myself."
Yes they should, I am not saying were Not going to another late war japanese set up I am just pointing out how even the best match we can creat for the late war time frame is compleatly inbalanced in favor of the Allies, I can understand somebody wanting to fly their favorate planes, but i have a bit of a problem with them beleaving it to be a good match up.
Like I said before we had a huge attandance last time in the CT this map was run which was the big deciding point in reruning it again a month later, it is also the most balanced CT set up we can creat for the pacific at present.
" It sounds like we want a late war PTO to me."
Well the Vocal minourity is always ...well just that, you well get a late war Pac set up in the future, perhaps even next week. Just not this Friday.
"We cant have a plane because its faster than another?"
Somtiems yes that is right.
"Call it Allied whining and dismiss us if you want"
Everybody Whines, not just the Allies.
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What in the world is wrong with the Ki-61? Its got cannon, its fast, it climbs well, it dives well. It was THE best IJ fighter untill the Ki-84 and the N1K2 showed up in 1945. It can (and did) fight P-40Es, F4Fs, F6Fs, and F4U-1s. Maybe perk the F4U-1 at 3 pts or something and have it at a back base.
As far as the "mythical IJ fighter that AH doesnt have?" there is none. In the SW Pacific the Ki-61 was IT. The rest were Ki-43s (320mph) or Zeros. The Ki-44 is bandied about, trouble is its no faster and was not used in the Solomons, but rather Burma. Ki-45? too slow again. Ki-61 was top dog 1943-44 in the Solomons and N.G. so I keep wondering what special fighter you are all waiting the IJ to get.
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Originally posted by brady
P40E is around 276 on the deck and the A6m2 is around 275 on the deck. Most combat takes place low.
bs.
The problem with the p40 is if you're a fart smeller you don't fly it on the deck. The problem with the p40 is that when "most combat" is taking place "low" 'tween wildcats and zekes, the p40s swoop in from higher and cherrypick.
perk it or leave it out.
I don't understand why you put in in in the first place if you want an a6m vs f4f setup. What's the point? Why's it there?
Splash1
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I say this:
Pick a week...a *specific week* out of the year you want.
We're doing something different now. We're resetting Perks at the end of each map. Everyone starts on Friday with the same number of points...none.
Put the planes - all of them - that belong there *that one particular week of 1942* in.
Perk them so that their actual numbers will be decently represented. If there were only a few of them about, they should be 3-5 points apiece. If they represented the mainstay of a combat force, make 'em free.
Limit them to the actual bases that RW Squadrons flew them out of.
Let the games begin!
It boils down to this for me. If you fly the plane like it's supposed to be flown (with some amount of adaptation for the effects of flying a cartoon plane in a mathematicially imperfect simulated world), you should do as well as the real plane did.
As far as a plane being "faster" than another...I don't think that's a valid argument. I don't know about you all, but when *I'm* fighting, I spend a *very* small amount of time at the plane's maximum speed. *VERY* small indeed. If a faster plane runs away...I let him go. If a faster plane is running down my 6, and I'm out of options and almost out of ideas, I FUBARed Something Up, and it's my own damn fault. Ingenuity will see me through, or I'll be very dead, and I start over... No big deal either way.
Oh, and I'd have no objection to the A6M5.
DamPhyno
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"What in the world is wrong with the Ki-61? Its got cannon, its fast, it climbs well, it dives well."
Well Nothing realy, it is the late War model, not the one that was in New Gunie in 43, but realy it depends on what time frome your looking to add it into and what planes your seting it aganst.
"It was THE best IJ fighter untill the Ki-84 and the N1K2 showed up in 1945."
Well that could be argued from any number of prespectives and time frames, Some might say the Zero was king early on and then later the Jack rocked, or that for a brief time in New Gunie that the Tony rocked the allies planet.
"It can (and did) fight P-40Es, F4Fs, F6Fs, and F4U-1s. Maybe perk the F4U-1 at 3 pts or something and have it at a back base. "
Well this true but this doesent mean that it would be a good match up.
"As far as the "mythical IJ fighter that AH doesnt have?" there is none. In the SW Pacific the Ki-61 was IT. The rest were Ki-43s (320mph) or Zeros. The Ki-44 is bandied about, trouble is its no faster and was not used in the Solomons, but rather Burma. Ki-45? too slow again. Ki-61 was top dog 1943-44 in the Solomons and N.G. so I keep wondering what special fighter you are all waiting the IJ to get."
It is no fun for anyone to fight up hill aganst overwhealming odds, it is not good for the CT for us to creat lopsided set up's, Other than the Ki 84, or the Jack, we realy dont nead another New Japanese single engine fighter, we do howeaver nead some more varients of some of the planes we do have. We have 4 F4U's and one Tony, one George, and the latest and earlest Zero's. we nead to fill in the gaps a bit hear to help us to do better match up's. HTC has not helped any of in this regard for the CT, howeaver sometime withen the Next year we may see more planes coming for the Japanese.
One thing we can and have done is creat fantsy set up's that feature planes fighting plane types that were not realy put head to head on maps that did not see those plane types.
Frankly I think a Tony VS a 50 MPH Faster fighter with a firepower advantage, durabality advantage, effective gunrange advantage and an exceleration advantage does not make for a good match up, The best thing the Tony has going for it is that the Blue plane flyer in the F4U might screw up blead his E and try and turn with him, the only strength he (the Tony ) has the in the promis of the stupidy of the guy in the F4U.
Just Because planes faught one another in the real world does not mean they are good match up's in the CT.
"The problem with the p40 is if you're a fart smeller you don't fly it on the deck. The problem with the p40 is that when "most combat" is taking place "low" 'tween wildcats and zekes, the p40s swoop in from higher and cherrypick.'
Yes they do, but if they turn they lose their advantage, and if the Zero has Zero SA he will be dead, it is prety easy to get out of their way if you have a clue, like I said earler we have ran set up's with just these two planes being the primary fighters facing each other and it was not that big a deal, one nice thing is that the P40 comes apart prety nicely, much easer than the Wildcat, and it is not anywhear near as manuaverable as a Wildcat.
"perk it or leave it out.
I don't understand why you put in in in the first place if you want an a6m vs f4f setup. What's the point? Why's it there? "
It is limited to a base so far away that it is almost compleatly out of play. I put it in to give those allies who whine about having no preformance advantage somthing to hope for, some tards will fly it 4 sectors to give themslefs the preceaved advantage they nead to enable an engagement aganst the Zero's. These are the same people who think that the f4U-1a is a good match up aganst the A6M2. Not that I am pointing fingers:) I have done the same thing. It is not going to cause an imbalance it is not uber and it adds some depth to the plane set.
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"Pick a week...a *specific week* out of the year you want.
We're doing something different now. We're resetting Perks at the end of each map. Everyone starts on Friday with the same number of points...none.'
NO WERE not reseting perks every week, were only doing this for specific set up's, we can not easly reset perks and we can not set values we the CT stafers nead to get HTC to do this and it is used sparingly.
"Put the planes - all of them - that belong there *that one particular week of 1942* in.
Perk them so that their actual numbers will be decently represented. If there were only a few of them about, they should be 3-5 points apiece. If they represented the mainstay of a combat force, make 'em free.
Limit them to the actual bases that RW Squadrons flew them out of. "
Perks dont realy suxcesfully limit planes, this is a comon misconception, the average Joe might feal the pinch but most players in the CT can get their good rides at will, since most are good sticks. Limiting is a good way to restrick a planes use howeaver people will fly several sectors to get the advantage a plane will give them so this doesent realy work either.
"It boils down to this for me. If you fly the plane like it's supposed to be flown (with some amount of adaptation for the effects of flying a cartoon plane in a mathematicially imperfect simulated world), you should do as well as the real plane did. "
Well yes this is often ture, imagine people flying the F4U-1 the way it should be aganst the Japanese, after a while we have nobody flying as Japanese, Fortunatly not everone is disaplined enough to do this.
"As far as a plane being "faster" than another...I don't think that's a valid argument. I don't know about you all, but when *I'm* fighting, I spend a *very* small amount of time at the plane's maximum speed. *VERY* small indeed. If a faster plane runs away...I let him go. If a faster plane is running down my 6, and I'm out of options and almost out of ideas, I FUBARed Something Up, and it's my own damn fault. Ingenuity will see me through, or I'll be very dead, and I start over... No big deal either way. "
LOL
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Originally posted by brady
"What in the world is wrong with the Ki-61? Its got cannon, its fast, it climbs well, it dives well."
Well Nothing realy, it is the late War model, not the one that was in New Gunie in 43, but realy it depends on what time frome your looking to add it into and what planes your seting it aganst.
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ever notice most allied stuff are the latest versions while axis stuff, particularly the ijn/a stuff is usually an early version.
the debate that the ki-61 is a later version simply shouldn't be used as an excuse to exclude it.
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Brady...unfortunately, you are beginning to sound like a broken record.
Don't think you will find one person in here who will argue against saying that the Japanese have a weak planeset. Sorry, but that reasoning for not having a late war setup is getting old.
You say you are worried about numbers in Late PTO setups....well seems to me lately (from reading the posts) that there are quite a few folks in here who are willing to fly for the japanese side.
We actually have folks (Axis no less) calling for a PTO setup....so we get the slot again! I know...I know...a new PTO map is coming. But enough is enough!
Guess it comes down to the fact we won't be seeing late war PTO until Brady says so.
A shame since there are quite a few axis pilots who fly Japanese iron well, but get stuck in the zeke again.
Take this as you will.....I haven't been able to fly now for over a week because of RL military duty issues, so I'm having major withdrawal issues:mad:
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Were not having a late war set up this week, like I said we may have one later, but this is my set up this week and this is the one I am runing, I dont pick all the set up's just my own.
I am sounding like a broken reckord because most of the squeaking is coming from the same prespective, and I am responding to the same issue's, mostly because it seams like folks havent read the whole thread.:)
Shane, that was not an argument for excluding the Tony in this set, it was a comment.
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Srry Brady, guess I stirred up a hornets nest, hey we all really appreciate what you do, only wish I had the knowledge and time to do it, guess what i was really saying is that maybe once in awhile a little fantasy map would be ok, like USN against LW or Russian. I know we all like historical maps and I know we can go to the MA and get the fantasy stuff, butt would really like to fly against the guys I fly against all the time with some of the late stuff. Just kickin it around. You guys do a great job and I try not to whine too much, and wasnt meaning to start something, just want to fly my Hellcat in the CT sometime, and I am sure you guys will have that setup sooner or later
!
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What is it with HTC and the Japanese planeset? Huge gaps, early IJ models vs latewar US counterparts, neutering the N1K2, the undermodelled Zeke cannon, etc? And when the AH planeset finally reaches a point where new additions simply have to favor the IJ since there are so few Allied planes left to model, HTC pulls the plug on new development for AH, announces AH2 for the 2nd half of next year (with ToD most likely focused on ETO)?
Brady, you're quite an optimist if you can look at all these facts and then predict hope for the IJ fans in AH sometime next year. :)
I don't think an A6M3 or a Ki.43 is going to help at all in dealing with the F4U-1's speed. I agree something needs to be done to address balance issues, but waiting for more Japanese planes of the time period is not going to help. I think you are just going to have to perk the F4U-1 and put it in sometimes, or the Navy flyers will never get to use it in midwar PTO matchups (where it belongs) concerned about both authenticity and balance.
If 3 out of the 4 Japanese fighters are late war, we ought to be able to concoct a fair setting that uses them.
That last PTO CT setup was good, but it did run during a free-trial promo, so the numbers may have been skewed a bit.
Anyway you CMs and Brady in particular. Thanks for working in PTOs when you can...
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Brady.
Like Hj said , we all appreciate what you guys do. The same ole same ole each PTO gwts old though. Forcing the guys who are willing to fly IJN into no choice of aircraft three times in a row is what drives me nuts. I know the speed difference between the F6F, anf A6M5 is greater than the F4F A6M2, but the Hellcat and Zeke 5 is a better matchup IMO , anyday than the Zeke 2 , and Wildcat.
We got guys who will fly Japanese on those Tuesday, and Thursday night when the arena is usually full, but we'd like a chance not to have to do it in A6M2s again.
Brady nothing is aimed at you personally, it is getting frustrating though getting stuck with the A6M2/P40/F4F every time.
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need to loosen up on the "historical" aspect ....
if the japs ain't got the planeset, use the germs
late LW planes against a late blue planeset
jap planes are fine one on one but even two on one ur ded..
dunno what map the "slot" is but if its the long string of islands which makes getting to combat even longer, well .....
when is the next eto ? :)
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As redundant and disappointing as this may or may not be, there is nothing we can do about it. They could use some substitution fighter for balance (say a Japanese 109 of some sort), but who would decide? Then the historical "purist" would go berserk, and they are the guys that run the show.
P.S. (I also wonder, is the P40-B model not available in the CT arena inventory? Certainly this model should not be unbalancing, and it can not be argued as not historical. )
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.....I'll fly it anyway, just cause I like the CT.
As far as the speed disparities between the USN and USAAF planes and their Japanese counterparts, well.......
What do you guys want to do, rewrite history, pretend the Japanese actually had planes as fast as the F4U, P38, P-51, or P-47?
Fact is, they didn't in RL. Even the vaunted Ki-84 was slower than any of the above by a minimum of 20 mph (vs a P-38), all the way up to a 50+ mph difference against a P-51.
BTW, don't EVEN bring up the tests the US did after the war, listing a Ki84 at over 420 mph. Japan, according to some sources I have read, did not have fuel rated over 92 octane, so the wartime Ki84 would NOT put up that kind of performance.
In closing, it does get old hearing the same old "US planeset dominates the Japanese planeset." We got ONE early war Japanese fighter, the A6M2. The rest are mid-war to late war rides. Please stop penalizing players who happen to like the big blue rides, the Jug, the Lightning, or the Ponies, just because you can't accept the fact that practically any setup involving a PTO planeset is gonna leave the Japanese fliers flying slower planes than their Allied counterparts.
You log in and you choose your ride. If you choose a side because you like a particular plane, you choose it's shortcomings as well as it's strengths. I don't pay much attention to anything other than what the numbers on each side are. I do admit to flying the Jugs any chance I get in a CT setup, but I have been known to change sides to balance the numbers, and I will continue to do so. Some folks don't, they just pick whichever side they feel has the better planes and say to hell with the side balances. Those are the guys that cause the problems with a planeset and gang banging.
Now, I'll get off my little soapbox, log into the CT, and have some FUN! :p
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I'll say this one more time-
What the hell is wrong with a PTO that matches the Hellcat, P-38 and F4u-D against the A6M5b, Ki 61 Tony and the N1K? Hey, I'm one of the ones flying the damn IJ stuff so I don't care if so and so's Corsair is faster, I'll gladly take him on in my N1K. Just give us the setup.
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Eagler, you take a Wildcat and put it against 2 A6M2's and it's dead meat (though, I think Shane or someone equivalent might be able to get out of it.) It's not much different than 2 F4F's against 1 A6M2.
When planes are closely matched, 2 v 1 is death for the one almost every time, unless it's a vet vs 2 newbies (or 2 bad shots.)
Of course, this is assuming a low alt, co-E situation. The lone Wildcat that has alt to burn will survive the encounter (even if it's just to run away.)
Brady, this is my favorite setup next to the Battle of Britain! for running it one more time before we have the USN speed demons vs the slow turner post-Slot setup. :)
Answer me this everyone who complains about the Slot setup. In a 1 v 1, co-E, 5000 ft engagement, what would you rather be in? A F4F-4 or a A6M2? 1 v 1 only, NO ONE is coming to help out either side. Include why in your answer as well. :) (you may expand to higher alts if you so desire, but the Wildcat becomes more of a choice because it can dive to run if in trouble up there!)
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I'am probally one in a very small minority that likes to fly the a6m2,hell I even fly it in the MA(that will really give ya some practice on fighting its historical enemy trying to dodge the d9's,51d's,and la7's) a lot it really all comes down to you got to know when to hold and when to fold and sense when someone is on your six.Also you have to anticipate your enemies move once on there six. I have found that most players will turn or make somesort of left turn or manuever maybe because most players fly righthanded I dont know but I always put myself in a position to be there when they make that move,you can be asured that if your are on an f4f4's six for longer than 3-6 sec his buddy will have a gun solution on you.I tried this last pto and had sucess going 32/18 the first few days the ego enters the picture and I start to hang on longer and longer and dieing more and more and end up 49/45 for the week.
Anyway Iam looking forward to it:)
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The F6F-5 (1944), F4U-1D (1944), and A6M5b (1944) also sub for earlier 1943 models in the CT, so the Ki-61-KAI (1944) can also sub for the earlier Ki-61? The armament and speed is certainly not unbalancing vs US types. Maybe leave the F4U out sometimes, or perk it, but vs the F6F and others its fine, and its historically accurate.
As for 1945 setups, again, add the N1K2, and perk the P-38 and the F4U perhaps.
I will submitt that there is no such thing as a perfect matchup, that only happens in the MA, where both sides fly the same ac. None of the CT setups have ever been "fair" one side always has the upper hand in ac types, always. I think the perk system can help, if used properly, ie. weekly resets, and carefull point allocations.
I also appreciate the work that goes into the CT, Im just expressing my opinion.
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Originally posted by najdorf
I'll say this one more time-
What the hell is wrong with a PTO that matches the Hellcat, P-38 and F4u-D against the A6M5b, Ki 61 Tony and the N1K? Hey, I'm one of the ones flying the damn IJ stuff so I don't care if so and so's Corsair is faster, I'll gladly take him on in my N1K. Just give us the setup.
What he said
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Originally posted by 1Duke1
.....I haven't been able to fly now for over a week because of RL military duty issues, so I'm having major withdrawal issues:mad:
LOL..How dare we wage a war, and limit your time in AH..those Pentagon Bastards :D
We miss ya, Bruddah...see you soon (and I'm actually taking a little break, myself dur to RL stuff)
Gainsie:D
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yay! more F4F-4 vs A6M2
someone had to be happy about the setup. :)
Personally I feel the 2 planes are well matched, 1v1 the zero should eat the F4F alive.
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Originally posted by Soulyss
yay! more F4F-4 vs A6M2
someone had to be happy about the setup. :)
Personally I feel the 2 planes are well matched, 1v1 the zero should eat the F4F alive.
:D I agree, this is a very good match-up, and one where I would fly for either side depending on arena balance.
Can't wait to fly the slot again! Great work CT team!
gollum
VMF-101 Nightmares
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This set up is so we test certain things for an upcoming scenario.
Theres nothing new with the CT CMs running a set up like this as a work up to a scenario.
I did it when I was a ct cm many times.
As for penalizing blue plane pilots well thats just bs. Maybe some blue plane pilots oughta get together and ask HT to get a some more japanese planes modelled.
There were plenty of ct setups where the entire US planeset was available vrs the ki61 and a6m5. They sucked.
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Originally posted by Soulyss
someone had to be happy about the setup. :)
Personally I feel the 2 planes are well matched, 1v1 the zero should eat the F4F alive.
Agreed. And it does. I like this match, too, although I would have thought that the P40 ferrying that went on the last time would be a lesson for this time.
I remember the later-war PTO CT setups, with the Corsairs and Hellcats and P-38s and Jugs. Seemed to work OK, perhaps we'll get a chance to see when that lovely Okinawa map rolls around.
In the meantime, lighten up, folks. If you don't like the zeke, fly the wildcat. There's plenty of us who would PREFER to be in the zeke. And next week there'll be a whole new setup.
- oldman
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P40E is around 276 on the deck and the A6m2 is around 275 on the deck
The HTC charts show
- the A6M2 at about 270@0K and about 283@5K
- the P40E at about 280@0K and about 300@5K w/o WEP
- the P40E at about 300@0K and about 320@5K w WEP
Are the HTC charts that far off or did you mean P40B?
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Maybe some blue plane pilots oughta get together and ask HT to get a some more japanese planes modelled.
We have. Maybe you should try to keep current.
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I am current and outside a few token posts theres very few.
If you dont like this set up dont fly it. No one wants to here you whine over it.
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When you pay my $14.95 a month, then you can have some input on what I "whine" about.
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since most of the planes facing the Wildcats in the slot were A6M3's
I'm sorry Brady but this just isn't true.
Got the following from
"Guadalcanal: The Definitive Account for the Landmark Battle"
by Richard B. Frank
"AT Rabual on this morning sat 32 Bettys, twenty four long range A6M2 Model 21 Zeroes, fifteen shorter-range A6M3 Model 32 Zeroes"
"The A6M2 Model 21 needed every inch of this range to rach the 565 miles from Rabaul to Guadalcanal and return. The Japanese retained the Model 32 Zeros for the defense of Rabaul because their slightly more powerful engines weighed more, consumed more fuel and displaced some fuel capacity, thereby reducing their range about 25 percent, and thus below the minimum requirement for sorties to the lower Solomons."
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I will tell you whatever I want, whiner.
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"AT Rabual on this morning sat 32 Bettys, twenty four long range A6M2 Model 21 Zeroes, fifteen shorter-range A6M3 Model 32 Zeroes"
It realy depends on the time frame, the exact dates your looking at and the source's your quoting.
"The A6M2 Model 21 needed every inch of this range to rach the 565 miles from Rabaul to Guadalcanal and return. The Japanese retained the Model 32 Zeros for the defense of Rabaul because their slightly more powerful engines weighed more, consumed more fuel and displaced some fuel capacity, thereby reducing their range about 25 percent, and thus below the minimum requirement for sorties to the lower Solomons."
Most A6M3's were based at Buin and on several ocashions or 60 were were based their and did operate frequently over henderson.
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All I know is that in the A6m5 or tony I would have no problem or complaint taking on hellcats and hogs. Hell, I remember a fight a long time ago against a 38 and a jug... I somehow managed to land the 2 kills. I feel confident in the A6m5. However, the A6m2 is another story entirely. It's a flying coffin for me up against the wildcats and 40's. One-on-one I've had a few kills in it, only because the other guy messed up. The A6m2's weak guns and one ping deaths against the armor on the wildcat, combined with the wildcats good guns (and range- another big factor) and the fact they rarely fly alone... well, guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and get ready to die a whole lot next week. I have no confidence in the A6m2 against any plane... I would even hate to take on the Goodyear blimp with this POS, lol.
Yeah, I know... learn it and fly it to it's strengths... well, you mind telling me just what strengths it has?? Other than cutting pretty little circles in the air just before it becomes a flaming wreck?
I know some of you seem to do well with it... what's the big secret I missed out on?
Oh... and what in the deepest darkest hell was the reasoning behind intentionally screwing the cannons on it? As if the guns weren't weak enough already... :rolleyes:
:p
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The following are Pasages from Japanese Naval Aces and Fihter Units in World War II
p.43
" on the 24th , the Shokaku particapated in the Sceond battle of the Solomons ( The battle of the Eastern Solomons)." after this battle in which only one Zero was lost she dispatched " Fifteen Zero Fighters to Buka Base from 28th of Augast through 4th of september, they were used in the daily atack on Guadalcanal."
They were operating A6M3's.
At this same thie p49:
Planes from the Zuikaku(A6M3's)
"From 28th of Augast through 4 September 30 carier fighters of the 1st Carier Divishion proceaded to Buka Island. The Unit particapated in a Number of attacks on Guadalcanal; Fifteen Aircraft under the comand of LT Hidaka also Participated."
So with group from the Shokaku, that brings the total to 60 A6M3's operating out of Buka at this time.
Later:
p.50
" the squadron (Zuikaku Fighter Squadron) then In January Moved to Buin"
P. 150
"Lt. Kofukuda, led eighteen aircraft, guided by two land atack planes and advanced to Rabaul on 1 Augast; all jis aircraft arrived safely....In early september, the advanced detachament of the 6th air group sortied in atacks aganst Rabi, Port Morsby, and Guadalcanal. With the compleation of the airfield at Buin the detchament moved in and provided direct civer for the 6th Cruser Divishion Warships....the main force of the 6th Air Groupe consisting of 27 Aircraft arived at Rabaul on 7th october, soon after the entire group moved to Buin."
The 6th air group was reorganised and renamed the 204th airgroup in October.
p.151
"Air group 204 contunied to use Buin as it's Base; duties were atacking Guadalcanal, providing air cover for Guadalcanal reinforcement convoys, air defense in the Buin area....Fighter untis that were active in the -same area were the 252,253,582nd, at one point even the fighter Squadron aboard the Hiyo particapated in the Guadalcanal operation, in many cases these fighter units would particapate in large scal actions operating in unison"
Air Grope 252:
p.114
"by 9th of Novemebr they had advanced to rabaul. Over the perioud of almost 5 months untill Febuary or March 43, it particapated in the fierce aerial battles going on in the south east at this time. The Baptism of fire was during an atack on Guadalcanal on the 11th, with the coordination of Air group 253 and Air group 582...next day on the 12 they escorted torpedo bombers to guadalcanal"
These were A6M2's operating out of Rabaul.
__________________
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p.122
I a pasage regarding the 3rd Air group:
"Since confidence was gained that it was posable to fly 1,200 miles and conduct a 20min air battle" Refering to A6M2's
p.136:
The Tainan Air group, escorted our land atack planes flying 560 miles each waythe unit was still able to engage in air combat US Navy F4F's, our losses were two aircraft, with forty-three enemy aircraft shot down(including 7 probables).
The above group operating A6M2's
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If you look at the units operating in this area, the solomons during late 42, early 43 Most were equiped with the A6M3, and they operated out of Rabaul, but most operated out of Buka,Buin, the later (well one of them I get them mixed up:) ) was almost half as close as To Henderson as Rabaul.
The Book I sight above for most of the Quotes list's all the fighter Units in the Entire Japanese navy, whear and what they had during the war.
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I will tell you whatever I want, whiner.
Ok, I think I'll back off. You sound like one tough customer on the BBS. Sorry if I have upset you. Please forgive me. Thank you for your contibutions.
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Dont talk crap if ya dont wanna hear back it back. Please dont let me interupt your whine.
Soulyss there certainly were plenty of a6m3s in the Solomons during that time.
What makes an a6m3 a better plane in regards to ah is type 99 mk 2s. The mk1 much like the mgff on the 109e seem under powered when you read the anecdotal but numerous pilot accounts. That could be for many reasons.
Then we go into the toughness of the f4f, Sakai didnt like the 20mm and says he got most of his kills with 7mm. I think the a6m2 is fun plane to fly it just has real crappy guns.
This map is great map and lotsa fun but for some folks who fly ijn planes the guns are a real show stopper.
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Yeah they had the A6M3 at Buin starting in what looks like the second/third week of Oct. Dunno what strength they numbered in I found one reference around this time to 30 Zeros and another reference to a later date in the campaign stated that 14 Zeros were deployed there. Still I would consider the A6M2 Model 21 Zero the primary antagonist of the F4F-4 during the campaign.
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Dont talk crap if ya dont wanna hear back it back. Please dont let me interupt your whine.
you're so mean:(
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Slash27,
When have you guys ever advocated for Japanese aircraft as anything other than an apparent afterthought?
All I ever see from the US fans is stuff like:
"Give us the F7F and F8F because they're cool!!! Oh, give the Japanese the Ki.43-I because that was one of their main fighters and we need something to shoot."
And that's the optimistic version where a Japanese aircraft was actually included in the request. Mostly its just asking for top end US stuff.
najdorf,
You're new to the game so you wouldn't know why that setup won't work. It wont work because the Allies will whine endlessly about how the N1K2-J shouldn't be there because there were only 400 built and they didn't see combat until 1945. After this whining goes on for a bit the CT guys will cave in and either remove the N1K2-J entirely, perk it, or limit it to the very rearmost fields. The Allies will then proceed to use their 5 to 1 numerical advantage to crush the Ki.61s and A6M5s.
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Originally posted by Karnak
It wont work because the Allies will whine endlessly about how the N1K2-J shouldn't be there because there were only 400 built and they didn't see combat until 1945. After this whining goes on for a bit the CT guys will cave in and either remove the N1K2-J entirely, perk it, or limit it to the very rearmost fields.
Isn't that what happend to the F4U-1
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We could have a setup like this:
Solomons late 1943/early 1944 "The End at Rabaul":
A6M5 perked at 1 pt?
A6M2
Ki-61
D3A
B5N
Ki-67? maybe maybe not
vs
F4U-1 perked at 2 pts? USMC only, none on CVs.
F4F-4s
P-40E
TBM
SBD
A-20
B-26? maybe maybe not.
Tell me please whats wrong with that setup??? It may need some tweeking but I just dont buy the "it cant be done" posts.
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give them the KI-67 lose the B-26 add 1 cv with F6 and FM2
I like IT!!
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You could have a F6F at 2 pts on a CV, but no FM2. FM2 was a late 1944 a/c and saw no service in the Solomons.
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Squire, well you have a 50 plus MPH spead advantage over the Tony and a 70 some odd mph spead advantage over the Zero with the F4U-1.
Perking is pointless( some pun:) ) They will be widly flown since they will will compleatly domanate the Japanese fighter's.
The B-26 we have in the game is not approparate for the early to mid war pacific.
The Boston and the Ki-67 are a good (as good as we can get) match up for allied and Japanese bombers for most all pac set up's time wise. Both are faster than the fighter's apposing them both cary simmilar bombloads. While the Ki 67 has a decent defensive package it is not to tough, and it cant be used as a Jabo. The Boston can be used as a Jabo and is capable of killing Zero's with it's forward gun's, and it can kill them with it's tail gun easy, while being tough. Over all they represent a kinda crazy balance.
The B-26 is a problem in this regard, the one's in New Gunie at this time had a much lighter defensive package than the B-26 in AH and aganst the week Japanese planes this would be crazy, it would also inhance the huge Offensive advantage the Allies have in terms of bombloads, thus causing more of an imbalance.
The TBM's and SBD's are already far later modles than were actualy their and they are possesed of a much heaver deffensive and offensive firpower advantage respectively. So in this regard the Allies already have it better than they realy did.
Soulyss, I think if you look at my post and read it you will find that it suport's the therory that Most of the Fighters were A6M3's during this time.
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...and the Ki-61 has a 40mph speed advantage over the F4F-4, and a 20mph advantage over the P-40E, not to mention climb rate, and the A6M5 is as fast.
If the perks are useless then why did you just have a setup using them?
Bombers? so just use the A-20 then. Its easy meat for a Ki-61 or an A6M5.
As far as the TBM and SBD go, sorry you have lost me. They are 1943 models, what, ughh, they gunna dogfight the IJN? they too uber now for a PAC setup? I dont follow you.
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The problem is fighting the other planes, the problem chasing the runners around for an hour looking for a "fight".
Chasing the blue plane that just split esse'd to his ack or is running 3 sectors away come back with 10k alt is not much fun.
Thats why these set ups end up with axis outnumbered. When you call um on it you hear "You dont expect us to turn fight blah blah blah". But they damn sure expect the axis guys to spend their time chasing runners.
When Brady had to pull the F4U-1 last time he ran this was because guys would fly it 3 sectors to club baby seals. The guys who like Japaneese planes get stuck with "crappy" planes so should the allies. When guys tired after set up after set up of the f4f maybe we wont see those "give us the f8f or f7f" requests and we starting seeing some real calls for more Japaneese stuff.
All things considered Bradys setup brings the best level of parity you can get for pac setups given the current Japanese plane set.
All the whines about "I need my 50 mph faster blue plane or it just not fair" is bs. The main is chock full of F4us and f6fs.
The only reason this setup came back up so soon is because theres a new terrain build and needs a stress test before the upcoming Guadalcanal scenario. The same thing happened before BoB. Surely you can deal with it for a week.
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The main reasion i reran it is because it was a popular set up and had good number's, and was a fair match up, Pluss it is an awsome map, it has been a month since we ran it as well, The CT is Not Hear to serve the CM's. I could give a rats bellybutton if it was rebuilt or not, Nothing I neaded fixed was any way:)
"...and the Ki-61 has a 40mph speed advantage over the F4F-4, and a 20mph advantage over the P-40E, not to mention climb rate, and the A6M5 is as fast. "
Any set up that Features a plane type (fighter) that is that domanating is not a good match up, I dont care what collor it is.
"If the perks are useless then why did you just have a setup using them? '
I did not do the last set up, I dont generaly use perks in my set up's, sometimes but not to often.
"Bombers? so just use the A-20 then. Its easy meat for a Ki-61 or an A6M5. "
As easy as the Ki 67 would be for the F4U-1, the Boston is a prety fast buff.Their is only around a 12 mph diferance in the A6M5 and the A6M2 on the deck
"As far as the TBM and SBD go, sorry you have lost me. They are 1943 models, what, ughh, they gunna dogfight the IJN? they too uber now for a PAC setup? I dont follow you."
Depends on the time frame, in the above plane set no they would be prety easy meat (Tony), In earler set up's whear we just have the A6M2 they are prety uber, i got several kills with SBD's and TBM's aganst Zero's with them, and ya I dog faught the Zero's with the SBD, and used my guns defensive and offensive to get kill's. I am not saying that geting kills is bad, but i am saying that the allies have an advantage in this regard in that we have later models than the ones that were their.( for the earler set up's) The TBM-3 started production in Aprial of 44 I beleave, while the SBD-5 entered service in mid 43.
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Originally posted by tzr
Isn't that what happend to the F4U-1
With the noted difference that the F4U-1 had gone 45 or so to 8, whereas the N1K2's get whined away when they're breaking even, or even negative in K/D because most Allied guys don't seem to like the slightest challenge.
If it was N1K2-Js vs F4F-4s you'd have a similar problem to what we faced in A6M2s vs F4U-1s, and I would fully support the removal of the N1K2-J from any such hypothetical scenario.
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When have you guys ever advocated for Japanese aircraft as anything other than an apparent afterthought?
I know anytime there has been a post that I have seen where guys were asking for more Japanese planes I voiced my support. So have HiJacker, Erg, and others.
"Give us the F7F and F8F because they're cool!!! Oh, give the Japanese the Ki.43-I because that was one of their main fighters and we need something to shoot."
If you are implying that me or my squad has requested this, you are a liar. I would like you show me these posts with all the requests for the Bearcat. I would like to see them. You dont work for the Ministry of Information in Iraq by any chance do you?:D
When guys tired after set up after set up of the f4f maybe we wont see those "give us the f8f or f7f" requests and we starting seeing some real calls for more Japaneese stuff.
Keep that propoganda coming.
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Originally posted by Batz
The guys who like Japaneese planes get stuck with "crappy" planes so should the allies. When guys tired after set up after set up of the f4f maybe we wont see those "give us the f8f or f7f" requests and we starting seeing some real calls for more Japaneese stuff.
So your saying this is the way "they" are gonna keep it till HiTec puts in more/better planes for Japaneese plane set.....
well i can see my CT days are numbered:(
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No thats not what a I said Tzr. There have been other ct CMs that ran many many set ups that included every imaginable variation of late war us stuff vrs the ki 61 and a6m5. They sucked. It seems that as of late some CT cms see that. I know Brady most likely wont put up such a set up.
When I was a CT CM I dont think I ever did 1 pac setup.
Look at your call for a set up. You want every USN plane there is enabled. You guys fail to consider the point of view of others, those who dont care to fly blue planes.
But the fact remains that early war pac set ups are as good as it can get until there more Japanese planes. The slot map is great map, the planeset is equal except for minor things. Folks have fun on that map. Numbers seem to be on average.
Besides that it only runs a week. The reason this particular setup is back in rotation so fast is because of an upcoming event.
Slash you keep your whining coming and I'll keep posting the facts.
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Yeah, ya pissy whiner. He pulled it to keep his fellow axis pilots content and dry. ;)
Originally posted by Batz
When Brady had to pull the F4U-1 last time he ran this was because guys would fly it 3 sectors to club baby seals.
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Slash27,
I have no idea who is in your squad. I have no idea if anybody in your squad has made such a post. By your own admission though, to your knowledge, nobody in your squad has ever created a thread requesting Japanese aircraft.
Posting a "Me too" in somebody elses thread doesn't cut it when your preffered side needs opposition as badly as it does in this case.
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Did the A6M5 suddenly disappear from the AH planeset altogether? I seem to recall you gents doing pretty well in it against our F4U-1s in our squadron duel.
The F4U-1 getting whined out of the CT as ransom for more IJ planes is one of the most pitiful tactics I've ever seen.
Hell, how can I support the IJ planeset improvement any more than I already do? Oh yeah .... by supporting the banning of my preferred (and squadron) bird from the CT until it happens. :rolleyes:
Bring on the Nik. Bring it in droves. Ignore the whiney-arses (on both sides). :D
Originally posted by Karnak
With the noted difference that the F4U-1 had gone 45 or so to 8, whereas the N1K2's get whined away when they're breaking even, or even negative in K/D because most Allied guys don't seem to like the slightest challenge.
If it was N1K2-Js vs F4F-4s you'd have a similar problem to what we faced in A6M2s vs F4U-1s, and I would fully support the removal of the N1K2-J from any such hypothetical scenario.
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Oh bulltoejam. Support is support. If starting pro-IJ threads will cut your BS, so be it.
Originally posted by Karnak
Slash27,
I have no idea who is in your squad. I have no idea if anybody in your squad has made such a post. By your own admission though, to your knowledge, nobody in your squad has ever created a thread requesting Japanese aircraft.
Posting a "Me too" in somebody elses thread doesn't cut it when your preffered side needs opposition as badly as it does in this case.
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S!
. "How I can play in CT like this?! Setup & planeset is BS! (sniff sniff)"
Each CT setup last just 1 (one) week.
Accept the challenge.
Its just a game.
:)
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From the mouths of Finns. ;)
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Any set up that Features a plane type (fighter) that is that domanating is not a good match up, I dont care what collor it is.
Sooooo.....the FM2 (should be a Brewster which is slower) vs. Yak/LA5/109's is an even matchup????:rolleyes: And to ask a question...what was the "even plane speed" matchup in the Tunisa setup?
The Allies will then proceed to use their 5 to 1 numerical advantage to crush the Ki.61s and A6M5s.
As I stated earlier, havn't been in the CT for almost 2 weeks now...but before that, don't think the numbers have been this lopsided in quite awhile.
Posting a "Me too" in somebody elses thread doesn't cut it when your preffered side needs opposition as badly as it does in this case.
Well, gosh golly gee.....what's the point of someone even starting a thread if others can't post their support for whats being stated?
Here's a thought wondering why HTC doens't add more JN aircraft....historically in the CT, a PTO setup has low numbers flying for the JN. Why, well we all know the plane set sucks. So some folks leave and don't fly the CT for that week, really showing a lot of "support" for the CT there. A week goes by, and a new setup arrives (not PTO) and the numbers go back up. HTC sees this and says, why should we support adding any PTO aircraft, particularly Japanese when the numbers for a PTO CT setup suck anyways? Let's just give them more of what they are supporting.
Sorry, IMO posting on the BB whining to get new aircraft is just not going to get HTC's attention.
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Whatever Arlo I maybe flew 2 times in that set up.
As long as Brady is a cm theres no hope for f4u-1s vrs a6m2s in his setups, and thats great. Goto the main for that. All the unlimited blue planes you could want.
Dueling is different then arena play. In arena play you get many runners and gangers. Chasing them around is not fun. Late war pac set ups have had the lowest ct attendence. The idea in dueling is to fight. The f4f a6m2 is a fine match up. If you dont like it dont fly it. Or go set your match up in h2h and see if can get 4 guys to fly the a6m2.
When I was in the Navy I dont remember this many whiners, but I was on a Submarine.
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"Sooooo.....the FM2 (should be a Brewster which is slower) vs. Yak/LA5/109's is an even matchup????"
Over all that was a great plane set, so what if the Brewster was slower I killed tones of the Wildcats with My Huricane II. The plane set on whole neads to be considered not just one plane in a line up like that.
"And to ask a question...what was the "even plane speed" matchup in the Tunisa setup?"
If your refering to the last one I beleave the G-2 had the advantage, it was added aganst my recomendation, but it was done to balance the plane set due to the over use of the Spit's, eschanaly a hugly lopsided set up in favor of the allies existed untill it was added...or so i was told.
Plane set balancing is not always Black and White, their are subtalites to it.
HTC models planes largly bsed on What well sell in the USA, Why else would they model so many super early war Japanese planes and set them aganst so many Late(er) war US Modles? Or have such an Overwhealming Large portion of US planese modled in AH compared to any other country.
For the Most part I see a lot of people complaing hear about the fact that I think the Pac set up's nead to be structered in such a way that that they dont give the US a Huge advantage, the down side is the limiting of the F4U is a primary factor in this, this is Just my take on it, their are 3 other CT stafers who may feal diferently than me.
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Hey goof. The request isn't for the hog vs. the a6m2. The request is for a late-war pac to be added to the rotation. Yeah the early pac F4F vs A6M2 works. I'll be on the allied side in the Guad scenario. You're on the Axis side, correct? I bet when you served you were the only whiner in the sub service, so you're probably right. I know the guys doing shore rotation at our base were sure as hell more happy-go-lucky than you. :rolleyes:
Ya axis-head-wet-your-pants-at-the-thought-of-a-hog-in-CT goof. :D
Originally posted by Batz
Whatever Arlo I maybe flew 2 times in that set up.
As long as Brady is a cm theres no hope for f4u-1s vrs a6m2s in his setups, and thats great. Goto the main for that. All the unlimited blue planes you could want.
Dueling is different then arena play. In arena play you get many runners and gangers. Chasing them around is not fun. Late war pac set ups have had the lowest ct attendence. The idea in dueling is to fight. The f4f a6m2 is a fine match up. If you dont like it dont fly it. Or go set your match up in h2h and see if can get 4 guys to fly the a6m2.
When I was in the Navy I dont remember this many whiners, but I was on a Submarine.
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Guys.
My question is if this setup was so popular, how come there are so many CT regulars who don't want it? The Japanese are going to be out numbered anyway, fine.......... Give us something to fly beesides the A6M2.
I know brady I know....................:D
Still I'd rather fight F6F's and F4U's in an A6M5, then F4Fs, and P-40s in a A6M2. Guess i'm just warped that way.........:eek:
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so many regulars that don't want it? I see the same 5 people saying they don't want it. The sole reason is because they want to fly the Hellcat or Corsair. It's not that you don't enjoy the setup, it's that you want to fly another one more. Hey, nothing wrong with that.
I'll do say that I agree with Karnak, brady and batz that the late war Pac sets turn into a baby seal clubbing festival. I do agree that people would bring the F4U-1 and do nothing but cherry pick in it (which is what they should do in it.) Didn't bother me any, it's easy to avoid a pure BnZer that obeys the 30 degree rule. Not one person that was in a Hog that I saw knew how (or should I say, chose) to try and E-fight with it, so they were harmless if you kept an eye on them.
I fly both sides in the early pac stuff. I like flying the Zero and Val, and I enjoy the Wildcat as well. I find both sides are challenging. (except for the Ki-67. waaay too fast for this setup, IMO.)
As for flying the Zeke in this setup? Keep your SA top notch first of all. Don't give the 'Cats a shot at you, no matter what. Don't go for a kill unless it's clean and you're safe. To get kills in the Zeke, get in CLOSE. Have your convergence on the 20mm in pretty close as well. Aim for control surfaces, or if you have a shot from the 4 or 8 oc, aim for the cockpit. Do NOT just wail on the fuselage of a Cat with your 20mm. It'll take all your ammo to knock one down. Best bet is to remove the stabs, or to take out an aileron while on the deck and watch him wallow and spin in. You have to be in close so you can aim for a wing. 200 yards ain't close enough. I'm talking 100 yards. It doesn't take much to shred the ailerons, and those things roll and turn like slugs with a damaged one.
Also, fly with a damned wingman. I'm sick of hearing the squeaking of "there's always another Wildcat! There's never just one of them!" Well, fly with another Zeke so that other Wildcat has someone on his arse to think about. ;)
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Posting a "Me too" in somebody elses thread doesn't cut it when your preffered side needs opposition as badly as it does in this case.
Uh ok. Sorry I wasnt there for you. I was too busy with my " Bring the F14 to the CT" thread to give you the proper attention. What exactly do you suggest here Karnak? We arent getting any new planes till AH II is released and even then who knows when we will get new Japanese rides. Why do you guys always go to squeaking about the Allies because HT hasnt delivered a better plane set? Every time we talk about a PTO it degrades down to this. Keep beating this dead horse, I think you're getting some where.
Look at your call for a set up. You want every USN plane there is enabled. You guys fail to consider the point of view of others, those who dont care to fly blue planes.
Yeah, keep those "facts" rolling in Batz, you're starting to be productive. Hey, call someone a whiner again, its been more than 5 minutes.
Ya axis-head-wet-your-pants-at-the-thought-of-a-hog-in-CT goof. LOL:D
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Originally posted by Slash27
Uh ok. Sorry I wasnt there for you. I was too busy with my " Bring the F14 to the CT" thread to give you the proper attention.
ROTFLMAO!
Slash this whole thread was worth that one line. I think if you get the Tomcat we ought to at least get the N1K2!:D
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hehe:D
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No Arlo you are still whining like a little squeak over the fact Brady took the F4U-1 out of this set up last time.
Then it was an F4U-1 vrs the a6m2.
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I really don't know what the big deal is.. I will be flying Allied and that will give ALL the IJN pilots LOTS of chanced for a kill.. hehehehe
Thanks brady and CT group for the work you do...
--mdbaker
106th Air Group
http://www.106thvag.org
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All i said was, sure would be nice to fly the F6 and F4U in the CT, no matter what the axis flew, sure are alot of guys out there that hate the blue planes, oh well, I will fly what Brady gives, and once again thanks to all the guys that make the ct possible.
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Hijack,
You can ask for whatever you want. Feedback is good for the cms. My participation in this particular thread is limited to the stated topic. "Friday the 4th". This involves the planes for this set up. As to future late war pac set ups theres another thread, which I am not participating in. There are other CT CMS who may run such a set up. If they do I just wont fly in them. I am not gonna continue whine and try to bully them into getting my way like some of the allied whiners in this thread.
Brady has been my squadmate for 2 years I know he understands that adding the F4U-1 to the current set up is not a good thing to do. Especially, in light of what happened last time. Also as I stated the only reason this particular match up is back in rotation so soon is because theres a new build of the map and we would like it to be tested for an upcoming scenario.
Its 1 week. In late war pac setups I have enjoyed the ki-61 f6f fights when they happen but unfortunately it always ends up like a dog chasing his tail. Run around circles until you get bored.
Late war pac setups have had consistant lo numbers and as much as they may appeal to a certain "special interest group" they have no appeal to others. I am sure the other ct cms have read this thread and may take a different direction then Brady.
The last time this setup ran it seemed popular the few times I had a chance to fly in it.
I think the best thing to do would be continue in the other thread before this one gets "Hijack'd" any further. :)
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I think if you get the Tomcat we ought to at least get the N1K2!
We gonna get the Tom???? I think I can still remember how to get that baby started:D
Now landing it at night on the CV.....well.....that's a different story:rolleyes:
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Dont worrry Duke. I will use my powers as a member of a "speacial intrest group" to whine away night time permanently. <
>:D
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awwwwww man! where's my 109?! pooey!:mad:
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LOL, I haven't seen this much "whining" since I visited Napa valley. And that Tomcat comment by slash was the line of the thread,
!!!
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Know what Batz, your right,and thank you for showing me the error of my ways, srry Brady didnt mean to mess things up, next time ill be sure to post in the correct thread.
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Thank you, thank you Im here till thursday <
>:D
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No pissy-boy ... I mentioned how Brady, at the slightest hint of a threat to the axis in a PAC CT setup jumps through hoops to keep you dry and content. The Ki was being ferried in just as much but .... nooooo ... it's them there allied players "abusing" (by using) a plane in the setup. R*O*F*L
Wotan: (whiney voice) F4Uuuuuu! F4Uuuuuu baaaad! Youuuuu guys are the ones whiiIIIIiiiinin. I'm not whIIIIiiiiIIInin. You're whIIIiiiiIIInin!
:D
Originally posted by Batz
No Arlo you are still whining like a little squeak over the fact Brady took the F4U-1 out of this set up last time.
Then it was an F4U-1 vrs the a6m2.
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WHEN THEY ASK AT WORK WHAT I DID ON MY DAY OFF I AM NOT TELLING THEM I READ THE BBS ALL DAY ROFLMAO FROM A GAME I PLAY ON THE COMPUTER, CAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE ME LOCKED UP. WAY TO GO SLASH. AND HIJACK IM BEHIND YOU ALL THE WAY.
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I didnt ask for the F4U-1 to be added to the current setup. We are asking for a Solomons setup "at some point" with the F4U-1 and Ki-61 enabled as the primary protagonists. Thats all. As for others, well, their posts are their own.
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I'm gone for only one week and look what happens!!!!
Hey Lowejg, see if I leave you in charge of the CT again :D
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"I didnt ask for the F4U-1 to be added to the current setup. We are asking for a Solomons setup "at some point" with the F4U-1 and Ki-61 enabled as the primary protagonists. Thats all. As for others, well, their posts are their own."
Which would not be a balanced set imo.
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whine on Arlo
Poor little whiner doesnt get his F4U-1 to club the baby a6m2 seals. What a shame. Its bradys setup and guess what, he can add or delete any plane he wants. So what if you dont like it.
I dont think he cares anymore then I do.
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Always the same basic question: Is it about balanced gameplay or historical flavour?
If both sides fly Solomons historically, that is if the Japanese fly point defense and the Allies fly aggressive local air sup, then F4U-1 vs Ki61 is eminently playable. The Allies can survive any fight, but can they control a sector? The Japanese can control any sector, but can they survive the fight?
If everyone just furballs, well that's a different story. I don't get the people who complain that the Japanese just end up chasing dots. You shouldn't be chasing them! If they are running away, you've won! Grab and do your CAP dog legs. If they come back, make them run again. Ask yourself: Could they get bombers through right now with us intercepting them? If the answer is no, you're doing splendidly. If you ask yourself how many corsairs you've shot down, you're asking yourself the wrong question.
If Squire's setup was in effect, I would fly Japanese all week.
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
I'm gone for only one week and look what happens!!!!
Hey Lowejg, see if I leave you in charge of the CT again :D
Yeah you need to come back as the atagonist Hawk. I've had a big week. Got shot down by RTRider Thursday night I think I'm 0-5 against him for 2003. I'm in another turdball throwing contest with Shane, plus I'll be flying the A6M2. I need a vacation from my hobby!;)
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Wow ... I think the planeset is one of the most balanced right now. Flying the A6M is a blast even with the pea shooters.
In my opinion folks who want a late war Pacific set-up could ask for it .. petition for it even, but carrying on like this is pointless. If you want the F4u1 so bad it is available for NO PERK POINTS in the MA...
If you asked nicely the powers that be might have switched mid-week to a Baa-Baa black sheep kind of set-up.....but now you are just annoying to listen to and if I were a CT staffer I might have placed you on my ignore list.
Buh - bye.
BTW Brady and CT staff .. what is the next set-up?
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Hey Slash, good luck on the Tomcat - I have been trying to get a F-8E Crusader for almost a year and HTC won't give me the time of day!
Would like to set a set-up something like NORWAY 44.
Maybe a combination of US & British CV's with F4U-1D's, F6F-5's, F4F-4's, TBM's, Seafires vs. German Land based forces. That would make the blue water types happy I would suspect.
Till HTC plugs some holes in the Japnaese plane set and fixes the dumbing down done to the A6M2 cannons & the N1K1 all the PTO set-ups are gonna be sinking ships. Still the later war set-ups don't "smell" quite as bad as the early war ones do. IMO.
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I would prefer the F4u1 and the F6f in the Norway set-up:)
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lol lowride :)
I have a great idea.
Give the axis ther entire plane set.
Give the allies the C-47 only. That should take care speed problem.
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Originally posted by skernsk
I would prefer the F4u1 and the F6f in the Norway set-up:)
They ran that one a few months back. I thought that was a pretty cool setup.
Skernsk, the main reason for all the whining is this is the third PTO in a row, where the Japanese have only the A6M2. Yes people have asked nicely, nobodys out to get Brady. In fact his efforts are deeply appreciated by the majority of us.
He just seems to only be able to count to two after the M. I was really hoping the next PTO he would count to five as in A6M5....;)
Just a joke Brady!!!!!!:)
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Wotan:{whiney voice} F4Uuuu! Scawy `ol F4UuuUUUuu! Bwady! Bwady pwotect meeee! Pwotect me fwum F4UUuuuUUUuu! Awlo wanna make me fwy dee `ol zeek and shoot me down in F4Uuuuu! Bwady? Bwady? It good to have a sqwawdie who pwotects me fwum F4UuuuuuUUUUUuuu!
(http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/blackeye/hihi.gif)
Originally whined by Wotan
whine on Awlo
Poor wittle whiner doesnt get his F4U-1 to cwub the baby a6m2 seals. What a shame. Its bwadys setup and guess what, he can add or dewete any pwane he wants. So what if you dont wike it.
I dont think he cawes anymowe then I do.
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Uhhh ..... bull****. Thank you. ;)
Originally posted by skernsk
If you asked nicely the powers that be might have switched mid-week to a Baa-Baa black sheep kind of set-up.....but now you are just annoying to listen to and if I were a CT staffer I might have placed you on my ignore list.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Slash27,
I have no idea who is in your squad. I have no idea if anybody in your squad has made such a post. By your own admission though, to your knowledge, nobody in your squad has ever created a thread requesting Japanese aircraft.
case.
Wrong, I've been rather vocal in requesting the Ki-84 and the Raiden. Case closed. I have to agree, it would be more of a fair fight if you guys had better rides, it gets boring, killing you guys endlessly :D
(lighten up, it's a joke)
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Originally posted by Nifty
Not one person that was in a Hog that I saw knew how (or should I say, chose) to try and E-fight with it
Too bad I'm not flying for a while....:rolleyes:
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Come on guys! We are halfway to catching the Finns with their "Bring the Brewster to AH" thread over in AIRCRAFT AND VEHICLES.
Come on CT pull together and POST! :D
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BRING THE BREWSTER TO AH!!!
ooops wrong thread
move along folks, nothing to see here...
:D
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I say: "No Gladiator, no Brewster!"
Get your priorities straight :D
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Hell, I'd like to fly the planes AH already Freaking has but hardly, if ever, enabled in the CT!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
Hell, I'd like to fly the planes AH already Freaking has but hardly, if ever, enabled in the CT!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:
even when those planes are enabled, you still can't fly them.
;)
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Ya know what? I did a little experiment earlier... flew both sides. I like to squeak about the A6M2, but it might not be as bad as I first thought. Yes, The fact that the cannons are porked in the M2 zeke is bullsh*t, but at the same time, the way this setup is right now makes for an easier jap game. The P-40B is a poor plane period... it works well if you b 'n z and forget fighting, but as soon as you turn you're dead. The zekes will just turn away and that's that. I did spend the perkies for a couple wildcats too... I still think it's armor is overmodeled, but it's not as "uber" as I first thought... it can be beat. Really, this setup is starting to get really stale, some other PTO needs to share the rotation, but I can't squeak too much unless I make a map and settings for something else. And this one has shown me that I do actually have some patience left in this life, lol.
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even when those planes are enabled, you still can't fly them.
....aint that the truth... :(
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Of course, the question is, seeing how we're all volunteers here, (Brady, Sabre, Jarbo and myself), and we ARE doing this on our own FREE time, it's hard enought to do a setup with limited plane sets but at the same time trying to make it interesting and fair. Cut Brady some slack.
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Of course, the question is, seeing how we're all volunteers here, (Brady, Sabre, Jarbo and myself), and we ARE doing this on our own FREE time, it's hard enought to do a setup with limited plane sets but at the same time trying to make it interesting and fair. Cut Brady some slack.
Agreed.
We draw lessons from each of these CT setups.
And each of them lasts for only a week.
Thanks, Brady and the rest of you guys.
- oldman
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Everyone knows this, Fork. Paid accounts, free time sacrificed. But there's still some responsibility that goes along with the authority.
All of us pay to play. Many of us sacrifice free time to one degree or another for our squadies, friends or even the entire community. When the keys to an arena are handed over by HT and co.,however, I'm sure there is a trust involved.
A trust that the person CM'ing the arena won't allow prejudices of any kind color their decisions.
A trust that the person CM'ing won't make rash decisions that only take a small part of the picture into consideration without endevouring to see if there are wider-ranging consequences.
A trust that personal goals and agendas will be set aside in deference to the goal of maintaining a scenario atmosphere that is enjoyable for both sides.
Basically, a trust that the CM won't use the arena as their own personal sandbox. Because when that happens it hurts the CT and it hurts the game.
I'm not saying CMs aren't human or that CMs can't afford to make mistakes. I'm saying that either ignoring recurring requests from players or showing deference to a select group, time and again, even if the CM believes in their heart that they are right and everyone else is wrong ... is a bad trait/habit that HTC can't afford - even when the CM is paying to play and sacrificing his free time to make sure "everyone" enjoys the CT.
*ShruG* Just sayin'.
Originally posted by Mister Fork
Of course, the question is, seeing how we're all volunteers here, (Brady, Sabre, Jarbo and myself), and we ARE doing this on our own FREE time, it's hard enought to do a setup with limited plane sets but at the same time trying to make it interesting and fair. Cut Brady some slack.
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Arlo,
I believe the achient chinese proverb goes... "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."
We can't please everyone all at the same times and from time to time it will feel like we're avoiding doing certain setups. And to see people offer complains rather than constructive feedback, it's wears on the spirit and it's a tough pill to swallow.
Point is, we're trying hard to do our jobs and when someone attacks our setup, we take it personally. Part of our passion for our work.
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Ok .. constructive feedback:
The slot map is one of the most beautiful ones out there. It has great potential not just for a `42 setup but for later ones as well. I would like to see one with later warplanes in it. Realizing the IJ plane setup has gaps in it yet also realizing it has the N1K2 included, I wouldn't mind seeing a possible "alternate reality" setup where the N1K2 is in greater supply and available earlier to the IJ player. This should more than balance the playing field. Furthermore, I wouldn't include all the models of the F4U (certainly I would leave the perk points on the perked ones as is if they are included). Include the George and A6M5 and Peggy in the mix. I don't think there's really a need for the "Be88y" unless the Allied side includes the B-26 (in lieu of the B-25).
Since fleets tend to be used for shore assaults (and I'm not entirely convinced that this wasn't the intention of HT and Pyro all along) ... perhaps the key to balance in that regard is the addition of shore batteries to all bases .... maybe two per. That would at least make the fleet captains acutely aware of the need to hurry and get the job done. I'm not sure if HT and co would be willing to reduce the fleet ack lethality ... or if it can be practically done without porking other things on the map, but asking for that may be an option too.
If things get technically porked, as tend to happen on new maps and set-ups from time to time, I would suggest a ready list of suitable replacement planes and thier deployment be discussed, agreed upon and posted for additional feedback by all.
P.S. I don't actually think "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" applies when it comes to the management and control of the resources of a paid service, be it through employees or volunteers, although I could have been more diplomatic. If constructive and positive feedback is requested, I understand. Such feedback is only really productive if it's given honestly and taken without prejudice. Giving due consideration to such feedback would go a long way to keeping it positive.
Thank you and