Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on December 09, 2015, 04:48:43 PM
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I don't see this skin in game yet.
Am I missing it?
http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/165/pics/3_50_b1.jpg
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"Ding Hao!" is not yet done. This plane needs to be in AH as its pilot, Col. James H. Howard, was awarded the Medal of Honor flying it.
Here's a great reference pic.
(http://fly.historicwings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/HighFlight-DingHao7.jpg)
Further reference:
http://www.thisdayinaviation.com/11-january-1944/
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Yeah and he was considered a very skillful tactician when he was a group commander (or squadron commander). That MOH fight was something else. I encourage everyone to read about it.
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Actually he was not in Ding Hao when he earned his MOH... but never let accuracy get in the way of a good P-51 skin.
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Actually he was not in Ding Hao when he earned his MOH... but never let accuracy get in the way of a good P-51 skin.
Doesn't matter (and I never said he was--I have no idea what he was flying on that MOH sortie other than a P-51B). He's a famous pilot and this airplane is the one he is most identified with. It definitely should be in the game.
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Actually he was not in Ding Hao when he earned his MOH... but never let accuracy get in the way of a good P-51 skin.
Interesting. This is the only scheme I've seen attributed to him that I can remember. Funny how this happens with so many aces.
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Interesting. This is the only scheme I've seen attributed to him that I can remember. Funny how this happens with so many aces.
It's his signature mount.
Many aces flew airplanes other than the ones they are most associated with for all sorts of reasons. This one is the one he is most associated with so it should definitely be in the game, as you mentioned before.
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So 4 of the 6 japanese kills are actually ground strafe kills, but the AAF pressured him to put the six kill flags on his plane for publicity though he didnt want to do it. Looks awesome :)
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So 4 of the 6 japanese kills are actually ground strafe kills, but the AAF pressured him to put the six kill flags on his plane for publicity though he didnt want to do it. Looks awesome :)
He is credited with 13.33 victories.
Some of these are against the Japanese. I would imagine the kill flags are pretty accurate in this case.
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13.33 kills? wouldnt that put him behind about 400 luftwaffe aces in terms of skins we should have based on kills?
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13.33 kills? wouldnt that put him behind about 400 luftwaffe aces in terms of skins we should have based on kills?
Yes, but irrelevant.
Understand that the kills those Luftwaffe aces made over the war will never be achieved again.
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13.33 kills? wouldnt that put him behind about 400 luftwaffe aces in terms of skins we should have based on kills?
13.33 is a respectable tally for an American pilot considering the relatively low time in theater and the increasingly fewer chances for aerial combat. Also remember that Howard was awarded the Medal of Honor for an engagement in January '44.
Official Citation:
"For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action with the enemy near Oschersleben, Germany, on 11 January 1944. On that day Col. Howard was the leader of a group of P-51 aircraft providing support for a heavy bomber formation on a long-range mission deep in enemy territory. As Col. Howard's group met the bombers in the target area the bomber force was attacked by numerous enemy fighters. Col. Howard, with his group, at once engaged the enemy and himself destroyed a German ME. 110. As a result of this attack Col. Howard lost contact with his group, and at once returned to the level of the bomber formation. He then saw that the bombers were being heavily attacked by enemy airplanes and that no other friendly fighters were at hand. While Col. Howard could have waited to attempt to assemble his group before engaging the enemy, he chose instead to attack single-handed a formation of more than 30 German airplanes. With utter disregard for his own safety he immediately pressed home determined attacks for some 30 minutes, during which time he destroyed 3 enemy airplanes and probably destroyed and damaged others. Toward the end of this engagement 3 of his guns went out of action and his fuel supply was becoming dangerously low. Despite these handicaps and the almost insuperable odds against him, Col. Howard continued his aggressive action in an attempt to protect the bombers from the numerous fighters. His skill, courage, and intrepidity on this occasion set an example of heroism which will be an inspiration to the U.S. Armed Forces"
The reason that Howard was separated was because of severely poor visibility and the rest of the group aborted their mission for safety concerns. Howard continued alone to meet the bomber stream and battled through unfavorable odds. Howard ranks very high on my list for most respected Allied pilots.
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Yes, but irrelevant.
Understand that the kills those Luftwaffe aces made over the war will never be achieved again.
Also irrelevant since we cannot skin Luftwaffe P-51Bs in game. I am also unaware of any German Mustang aces.
We are discussing the P-51B in this case and Howard is a good subject being the only ETO fighter pilot recipient of the MoH.
As the OP I was querying the existence of the skin as I was considering doing it. I probably can't do it justice so will defer to others.
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I probably can't do it justice so will defer to others.
You should, your other skins are great :aok
As for the 4 of 6 japanese kills being on the ground, that comes from official 8th airforce history btw, I only included it as a point of interest.
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You should, your other skins are great :aok
As for the 4 of 6 japanese kills being on the ground, that comes from official 8th airforce history btw, I only included it as a point of interest.
Thanks man. I appreciate that. I'm still learning. :salute
That is an interesting factoid on his victories. I always assumed they were aerial.
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I have decided to give this one a try.
If someone feels they can do a better job than I can, believe me, I will defer.
It will probably not be available until April as I am about to head overseas and my laptop crashes when I use Spec Mapping. :salute
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I solved the biggest challenge for me: nose art.
*fist pump*
This is off my laptop. It has the BARE BARE BARE minimum to run the viewer--and it often crashes any way. Sorry the picture sucks but you get the idea.
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Figured out how to zoom in with this stupid laptop. LOL
Sorry to spam the board on this... Seems that traffic is slow of late so hopefully nobody is too bothered by me.
I think the DING HAO! came out pretty nice. Kill markings look okay also. Not sure if I will do a balkenkreuz or an X... Apologies for the low resolution.
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Get after this one Vraciu! :old: :D
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Get after this one Vraciu! :old: :D
Aye aye, sir. :salute :D
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Coming along SLOWWWWWWWWWLY.
Man, I am having to learn all kinds of new stuff with this non-metal finish. :rofl
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Looks good.
Here's a tip for you. erase some of the OD green from the leading edge of the wing. Be sure to have your underside gray on the top side of the wing. This will give the proper feathered demarcation between the paint colors. then adjust the demarcation line on the nose to meet up with the wing. Have a look at the reference photo in page 1.
You never want to let the paint stop on a hard edge created by the mating of parts of the bitmap - always simulate the wraparound of a paint color. Check your reference photos to see if the top color(s) wrap around the leading edge or stop just before it.
Here's a 190 I did to demonstrate. (http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Jg26%20190%201_zpsrkhrjd7b.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Jg26%20190%201_zpsrkhrjd7b.png.html)
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Looks good.
Here's a tip for you. erase some of the OD green from the leading edge of the wing. Be sure to have your underside gray on the top side of the wing. This will give the proper feathered demarcation between the paint colors. then adjust the demarcation line on the nose to meet up with the wing. Have a look at the reference photo in page 1.
You never want to let the paint stop on a hard edge created by the mating of parts of the bitmap - always simulate the wraparound of a paint color. Check your reference photos to see if the top color(s) wrap around the leading edge or stop just before it.
Here's a 190 I did to demonstrate. http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Jg26%20190%201_zpsrkhrjd7b.png.html
That's awesome. Love your panel line technique, also. I wish I could duplicate that.
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That's awesome. Love your panel line technique, also. I wish I could duplicate that.
What specifically do you see that I've done, that you cant figure out/ replicate? The panel lines themselves are pretty basic - black lines faded to 7-9% with white highlights faded to 6-7%.
Here's a tip to save time making highlights: place the highlight layer beneath the layer with the black lines. Copy a section of black lines (single wing, for example) invert the color from black to white and paste onto the highlight layer after shifting the white lines one pixel vertically and horizontally away from the light source (in my case it's rearward and outboard of the black panel line.) Now erase any white line where it is overlapped by the black one.
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What specifically do you see that I've done, that you cant figure out/ replicate? The panel lines themselves are pretty basic - black lines faded to 7-9% with white highlights faded to 6-7%.
Here's a tip to save time making highlights: place the highlight layer beneath the layer with the black lines. Copy a section of black lines (single wing, for example) invert the color from black to white and paste onto the highlight layer after shifting the white lines one pixel vertically and horizontally away from the light source (in my case it's rearward and outboard of the black panel line.) Now erase any white line where it is overlapped by the black one.
I will try that. I need to take my time and really be careful with the free selection tool... Maybe I will try just the nose panels as a start.
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http://www.probuiltmodel.com/img/galleries2images/v7kfaebE.jpg
Is the underside of the rudder supposed to be gray all the way aft?
Here's how it is coming so far.
Ignore the AJ*A lettering and panel line errors. The stars and bars are placeholders. The number is wrong on the tail.
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I'd say just follow the demarcation line on the fuselage strait back. There's some gray on the rudder but it ends before the rudder curves up sharply.
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I'd say just follow the demarcation line on the fuselage strait back. There's some gray on the rudder but it ends before the rudder curves up sharply.
I can't disagree. Wish I had a better photo, but that's what I will do then. Thanks. :salute
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Looks good.
Here's a tip for you. erase some of the OD green from the leading edge of the wing. Be sure to have your underside gray on the top side of the wing. This will give the proper feathered demarcation between the paint colors. then adjust the demarcation line on the nose to meet up with the wing. Have a look at the reference photo in page 1.
You never want to let the paint stop on a hard edge created by the mating of parts of the bitmap - always simulate the wraparound of a paint color. Check your reference photos to see if the top color(s) wrap around the leading edge or stop just before it.
Okay so I tried everything I could to give the line on the wing a blended edge. No dice. The skin stretches the pixels in that area *badly*. The reference photo has the OD and gray blending exactly at the midpoint of the leading edge. The skin simply can't be made to do it. So I did the best I could with what it will allow and here is what it looks like.
I also was able to redo the cowling panels but they wrap funny before they finish going aft (they bend outboard in an L shape). Just a quirk of the skin. I can't do much about it.
At this point I just have to do some cleanup on the panel lines and verify the markings are all where they should be. I have some flap pattern stuff to finish drawing and a white stripe to add to the vertical stab/rudder. Also need to make the canopy frames OD.
At this point I am trying to decide if I should do a gaussian blur on all the OD paint as it is basically a bunch of random pixels at the moment.
This is off my laptop running the bare minimum graphics. Sorry for the lack of anti-aliasing.
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Hi Vraciu,
(http://i.imgur.com/KBlM58Y.jpg)
This is a superb reference photo - wartime color is pretty rare, and its also a close-up that shows a lot of detail about the plane/skin.
I understand what you mean about the stretching on the leading edge of the wing - the P-38 is the same way, very difficult to work with and trade-offs must be made. Have you tried painting the leading edge of the lower wing surface with an olive drab line, feathered into the grey of the rest of the lower wing? This would move the boundary between upper and lower wing colors down slightly from the midpoint, but it would look so much better to have a feathered boundary between the drab and grey than the hard boundary you have now. (IMO)
I don't see anything wrong with using some artistic license when the skin cannot support the 100% accurate look. Take a look at this example:
(http://i.imgur.com/paztyws.jpg)
This artist has the leading edge of the wing entirely drab, and the feathered edge occurs on the lower wing.
The other great thing about this reference photo is the oil stains and smudges it shows; the color variations in the olive drab - from the sun-faded upper cowl to the more brownish drab of the side of the cowl, and even the two-tone grey near the panel with the drilled-holes. Look at the stains and smudges in the wing root area - what an outstanding example to follow of real world wear and tear. Bless Howard's photographer!
This looks to be a hard-used aircraft. You could really spend a lot of time on paint wear/fading, oil smudges & grime, paint chipping along access panels, if you wanted to. You've picked great subject there.
Couple other things I wanted to mention- and I just discovered this myself when looking over some old P-51 skins I did but never submitted. The horizontal panel line on the cowling above the exhaust manifold - it should be parallel to the centerline of the manifold - i.e. maintain a constant distance between panel line and the top edge of the manifold - yours looks to have a greater distance at the forward edge of the manifold. This could be a trick of the view perspective on your picture though - but you might want to check it out.
Also check the location of your gun camera port - it looks a little low to me, compared to the reference photo.
<S>
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I agree with Oboe on many of his points. Try adding a feathered line of OD to the leading edge of the lower wing. Based on the look of some of your weathering in the area, there doesn not seem to be much if any stretching on the lower wing near the leading edge.
The cowl panels I don't believe can be easily fixed though. The manifold itself is not inline with the fuselage correctly, to adjust the panel lines to align with the angle of the manifold will probably throw off the correct appearance of the cowl panels.
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Thanks, Oboe, Devil505.
I am in Nigeria at the moment. Will try to respond with more detail shortly, assuming I don't get blocked.
I appreciate the input. Let me take a crack at it and, with some luck, I will have something to show you soon based on your advice. In any event, I hope everyone is happy with the results so far. Sure is different than doing NMF! :banana:
You guys are the best. Thanks again for all the help. I am grateful. :salute
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Nigeria? You didn't fall for that email scam did you? It's a trap! :devil
Your welcome. This plane looks better every time you post pics, keep it up. :aok
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I agree with Oboe on many of his points. Try adding a feathered line of OD to the leading edge of the lower wing. Based on the look of some of your weathering in the area, there doesn not seem to be much if any stretching on the lower wing near the leading edge.
The cowl panels I don't believe can be easily fixed though. The manifold itself is not inline with the fuselage correctly, to adjust the panel lines to align with the angle of the manifold will probably throw off the correct appearance of the cowl panels.
Actually I think the manifold is correctly oriented in the game model. It seems like the whole nose section of the '51 is mounted at a 2 degree down angle to the rest of the fuselage.
Here's the best picture I can find of it:
(http://i.imgur.com/tZBg5SH.jpg)
Line A is the extension of the panel line that runs just under the cockpit and back to the tail section. Line B is the panel line just above the exhaust manifold. I think we all expect the horizontal panel lines to be parallel, and "see" them as such but in fact they are off by about 2 degrees.
I just noticed this myself the other day. Some P-51 panel line reference drawings have this correct, some profiles have it correct, others probably don't. My eye notices it now though. I don't know about the other P-51 skins in the game but I think Cactus got it right with the default P-51D skin.
Crazy, huh? Does that mean they intentionally designed the engine mount to have its thrust line at a 2 degree angle to the rest of the plane?
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I noticed this myself (the panel lines not matching the manifold angle). I just assumed it was a quirk of the modeling. :bhead
This is gonna be a tough one.
Lol at Devil on the scam thing. They owe me a fortune. I am here to collect!
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Its really not that bad. Just draw a horizontal line segment, rotate it 2 degrees (check angle against the manifold to be sure its correct, tho I'm pretty certain 2 degrees is the right value).
Put it where you want, and trim to fit. You can copy and paste for the other parallel panel lines in the nose section. The hardest thing to get used to is that its no longer a pure smooth line - its a little fuzzy and jagged because of the rotation (at least in Photoshop it is). But, you may find it looks more natural being in alignment with the manifold now. And you're gonna be reducing the opacity to what, 5-10% anyway.
Dang, I just noticed Ding Hao! has a birdcage canopy, not the Malcolm bubble like AH's '51B. I wish HTC would add both the birdcage '51B and an early '51D without the tail fillet, so skins could be put on the historically accurate airframe (plus, twice as many P-51 skin slots, muhahahah!)
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Its really not that bad. Just draw a horizontal line segment, rotate it 2 degrees (check angle against the manifold to be sure its correct, tho I'm pretty certain 2 degrees is the right value).
Put it where you want, and trim to fit. You can copy and paste for the other parallel panel lines in the nose section. The hardest thing to get used to is that its no longer a pure smooth line - its a little fuzzy and jagged because of the rotation (at least in Photoshop it is). But, you may find it looks more natural being in alignment with the manifold now. And you're gonna be reducing the opacity to what, 5-10% anyway.
Dang, I just noticed Ding Hao! has a birdcage canopy, not the Malcolm bubble like AH's '51B. I wish HTC would add both the birdcage '51B and an early '51D without the tail fillet, so skins could be put on the historically accurate airframe (plus, twice as many P-51 skin slots, muhahahah!)
Fear not. It had a Malcolm Hood later so it will be accurate.
I will get to work on the panel lines and wing demarcation feathering today. :salute
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Wing leading edge blended. It still stretches so I did the best I could. A single pixel is enough to make it go from acceptable to ridiculous.
Canopy is effectively finished.
Now all I need to know is how thick the white stripes are on the wings and stabs. Once I get that done it is a matter of cleaning it up and adding the numbers...
Also gotta' work on the panel lines around the exhaust. Will save that for last.
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I'd say you nailed the leading edge. :devil
Note on the stripes: stripes on the tail and elevator were rarely the same width as those on the main wings. If you can't find reference on this plane in particular, then try to find one of another from the squadron at the same time.
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I'd say you nailed the leading edge. :devil
Thanks man. That was a great suggestion. It makes a massive difference in how it looks.
It still stretched some, but Oboe was right. In this case attacking it from below was the best option. It worked.
Note on the stripes: stripes on the tail and elevator were rarely the same width as those on the main wings. If you can't find reference on this plane in particular, then try to find one of another from the squadron at the same time.
I will keep looking. The wing stripes need to be wider based on the look of the gear door (and when compared to the gear bay internals).
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Hi Vraciu,
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Also check the location of your gun camera port - it looks a little low to me, compared to the reference photo.
<S>
If you move the gun camera port any higher is stretches into a translucent blob. I put it as high as it would go without distorting. :salute
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Its looking good Vraciu.
Incidentally the slight downward mounting of the engine in an aircraft is not that unusual. Most R/C model aircraft have a couple of degrees of down thrust and right thrust built in to the design. The idea is to counter power on versus power off trim changes.
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Its looking good Vraciu.
Incidentally the slight downward mounting of the engine in an aircraft is not that unusual. Most R/C model aircraft have a couple of degrees of down thrust and right thrust built in to the design. The idea is to counter power on versus power off trim changes.
Thanks man.
Yeah I imagine the F6F has a pretty pronounced down angle on the motor mounts.
BTW, are these airplanes modeled asymmetrically? It seems like one wing is longer than the other. If I copy/paste panel lines over they don't square up. I end up having to shift things a few pixels in one direction or the other. Then when they look right from the viewer they are slightly off from the cockpit.
:headscratch:
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I've never tried skinning the P-51 so I don't know. It is not likely the wings are different sizes, HTC would just make one half of the whole aircraft and then tell the CAD program to make a mirror of it for the other side.
It is possible the texture has been applied a little out of scale on one side though. The AH1 shapes are awful for that sort of thing, the textures can be distorted all over the place. However the P-51 is an early AH2 shape. The similarly aged shapes I have worked on like the B-24, Spits or P-47s may have some stretching here and there but I don't recall having problems copying stuff from left to right. To be sure I suggest lining up the copied lines against fixed reference points like control surfaces and gear doors, you might find that the copied lines line up with the gear doors but are then a few pixels short of lining up with the end of the aileron for example. In this case you'd just have to adjust each line individually to match the reference points.
BTW pop quiz: Does anyone know which two AH planes actually did have different length left and right wings in RL?
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Greebo and Vraciu, In working with the Ki-84 I have also seen wings not scaled the same left to right.
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BTW pop quiz: Does anyone know which two AH planes actually did have different length left and right wings in RL?
202. 205.
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Greebo and Vraciu, In working with the Ki-84 I have also seen wings not scaled the same left to right.
Ah, good. Then it isn't just me. I will go back and do the ruler method mentioned by Greebo, but it appears that on the map the wings are off by a few pixels. It could just be me. Maybe I have something askew somewhere. :salute
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Thanks man. That was a great suggestion. It makes a massive difference in how it looks.
It still stretched some, but Oboe was right. In this case attacking it from below was the best option. It worked.
I will keep looking. The wing stripes need to be wider based on the look of the gear door (and when compared to the gear bay internals).
I'm glad I was able to help - it makes a big difference I think.
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I'm glad I was able to help - it makes a big difference I think.
Agreed. Thanks again. Now on to the cowling lines. That also makes a difference. I hope to have results tonight.
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Well, that didn't take as long as I thought it would.
Now the lines match the exhaust. Much better look.
I can't seem to find a way to get the ........................... rivet lines to fit without looking obviously distorted so I just deleted them.
Now I need to figure out what to do with the OD paint. For now it is random pixels. My instincts say I need to use a low-level Gaussian Blur to make them smooth out. Any thoughts?
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Looks great so far. :aok
You should be able to make decent rivets using the dotted line tool. Experiment with both aliased and anti-aliased dots.
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Looks great so far. :aok
You should be able to make decent rivets using the dotted line tool. Experiment with both aliased and anti-aliased dots.
Okay you gotta' 'splain that dotted line tool for me. I am still using PSP 5. :confused: :( :O
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I'll have to use the GIMP terminology so your mileage may vary. Find the "paths" tool. it allows you draw lines and curves and such. after using the tool to mark the path you want the rivets to go select "stroke path" which will open a menu with options for line style and thickness. You want a 1 pixel dotted line. There must be a similar tool in PSP-5
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I'll have to use the GIMP terminology so your mileage may vary. Find the "paths" tool. it allows you draw lines and curves and such. after using the tool to mark the path you want the rivets to go select "stroke path" which will open a menu with options for line style and thickness. You want a 1 pixel dotted line. There must be a similar tool in PSP-5
Thanks, man. I'll take a look.
In the meantime, what do you think about the base paint layer? It is pixels right now. Is Gaussian Blur the best tool to smooth that out or should I leave it as pixels?
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Thanks, man. I'll take a look.
In the meantime, what do you think about the base paint layer? It is pixels right now. Is Gaussian Blur the best tool to smooth that out or should I leave it as pixels?
What do you mean?
the apparent graininess of the paint?
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What do you mean?
the apparent graininess of the paint?
Yeah.
Here it is raw and with a Gaussian Blur added. From a distance it is not all that noticeable. But in the cockpit you can tell the difference. I want it to have some grain to it. I think a mild Gaussian Blur still gives it that effect. But I only used about .60 to blur...I think that's probably enough, unless I should leave it raw.
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Blur it.
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Blur it.
:salute :aok :cheers:
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Definitely blur it, looks a lot better.
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Definitely blur it, looks a lot better.
Will do. Thanks!
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Okay guys. Here it is. I can't do much more.
I am not in the league of the experts but this has to be my best submission so far... I am grateful to everyone for their help.
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Thanks to all of you who offered assistance, encouragement, and advice (Devil505, Oboe, Greebo, Lyric1, Pipz, etc.). I hope this is worthy of your help and patience. :salute
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Any way you could take higher res screen shots? It's hard to see some of the finer details.
I like what I see, but it still seems too clean.
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Any way you could take higher res screen shots? It's hard to see some of the finer details.
I like what I see, but it still seems too clean.
I will try, but you have to tell me how. LOL
I can send you the BMPs and you can try it offline.
It is a bit on the clean side. I made a compromise based on all the photos we have. I kinda' split it down the middle a bit. The balance of the photos do not support a trashed out airplane--however, that could be due to photo resolution, so I may be wrong in my choice.
PM me and I will send the files.
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Here's a zoomed in shot.
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PM me and I will send the files.
PM sent. :cheers:
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PM sent. :cheers:
:cheers:
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Congrats, Vraciu, she's a beauty!
I agree with Devil though that she's a bit on the clean side - especially on the bottom, under the engine and near the gear doors, one might see grease stains and smudges from leaks. Adding some bits of grime might make her look more authentic.
Also, you may want to desaturate a little or fade somewhat the red fuel caps - they are so intense and bright it looks like the red is smearing out - I know that its the game that is doing that and your bmp file is most likely clean. But if you fade or reduce the red's saturation, the color bleed might not be as noticeable.
<S>!
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I like the skin but it seems too clean to me as well. The photo Oboe posted earlier in this thread shows oil stains below the cowl and a scuffed appearance to the paint, particularly above the cowl. I'd say the olive drab where the nose art is had been repainted as well.
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Thanks guys. Will give it another pass and try to make those adjustments. :salute
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I tweaked the national insignia, victory flags, and fuel caps. Is this better?
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All of those corrections helped.
Have you tried those noise layers I sent you?
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All of those corrections helped.
Have you tried those noise layers I sent you?
That's next on my list.
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:aok
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:aok
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:aok
:aok
Thanks, gents. I am tweaking it a little more but it's pretty much done. My style is a bit on the minimalist side...and I am a long way from being a Greebo or Devil505 (etc. etc.), but I appreciate the support and encouragement. :salute