Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: eddiek on September 19, 2001, 10:55:00 AM
-
One sec, you will see a red bar in your sector, then it is gone......"okay, he dropped below 500 feet", then you look over and the guy is coming at you at 25K.........click the map, still no red bar, but ya know the guy is there, so the dar must be fediddleed.
The numbers in the arena are low, low, low......4 LW on when I logged in this morning, that # jumped to a whopping 8 in five minutes. Unfortunately, today must have been another "wrong" day to log in for me, as the LW were rtb'ing from a JU-88 raid in England, and while I flew from A40 in a P-47D-30, climbing all the way to 25K, they landed, and did not take off while I was in the air. I flew a circuit from A14 to A21 to A20, back to A14......waiting for a red bar to appear so I would know the LW was in the mood to fight. Never happened. Finally, all self restraint gone, I mouthed off on channel 1 about how stuff like this is why I rarely enter the CT, pissed RAM off, then got discoed.
Now, this is just my opinion, and my opinion only, but flying around over France like that is about as exciting as watching the grass in the front yard.
I relogged and talked to Hazed, and he said the LW was planning it's next mission. Great, fine, sit in the tower til your opponents are low on fuel and have to rtb. Actually a smart move on their part. But it is not what I expected or wanted to see when Pyro implemented the CT.
I had looked forward to fights between Allied planes and Axis planes, the classic fights that took place during WW2. Don't know why I thought I would see that happening, just an illusion I guess I created in my mind after reading what other pilots had said they wanted.
StSanta talked to me in the MA the other night about going to the CT, he said it was great. Santa, when you are there, it might be great, cause I know you are always willing to fight. Again, just my opinion, or maybe just my impression, but the last times I was in the CT, the LW stayed on the ground if Allied planes were over France, while anytime a LW plane(s) is over England, Allied pilots are scrambling to get to it/them. Seems the guys who fly Allied are more willing to mix it up than the LW I have encountered (actually, have only encountered them on channel 1, haven't seen them in the air at all).
I guess, in conclusion, I have to say that I take back everything I said about the MA. While I hate seeing Allied planes vs Allied planes, and Axis birds mixing it up with each other, that is preferable to seeing nothing at all.
I hope the CT works out, but I can't see myself going back there anytime soon............
[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: eddiek ]
-
I think it died already. I have never seen more than 3 in there at a time.
-
are they going to add a pacific ct?
-
Tower-only dot dar would make it easier to find a fight with low numbers, AND be more historically accurate than what we have now. More fights = more players.
Maybe in 1.08.
-
Tower only dot dar won't do a thing with the dar system in place now not even working properly.
The CT will not die yet. Its current implementation is poor, and hopefully many player issues with the CT will be solvable with the release of 1.08
SKurj
-
S!
I think the CT will only survive as a player controlled Arena.
Only a committee of players dedicated to providing the elements the flyers want will have the flexibility to make it work.
This committee should function in a manner similar to the Scenario CM's.
That includes maps custom designed, frequent changes to maps and planes, and scoring systems which allow players to see some results from their actions.
Right now it is a low population, historical furball Arena.
-
well
with the new convoys and trains coming in, there might be some more interesting things to do in there
-
I luv current radar implementation in CT.
I think the occasional plane not appearing in bardar even over 500ft. reflects perfectly the "fog of war" and favour a situation aware pilot. Unfortunately for me, I'm definitely not a member of this club ;)
As for numbers issue is concerned, the only really boring time I had lately was Monday and Tuesday. I had to fly just me. I was having fun with Ar 234 ;). Yesterday were not great numbers, 4. But were fantastic 2vs2 fights.
S! SandMan9, bane, oblitoo, tuckiej05....nice fites :)
With regards to survivability of CT, I hope HT mantains it. Atmosphere is just what I would expect of a WWII combat sim. No dweebery that I can think of. Players there are almost always playing nice. HO's are not the rule, but the exception, and even then, usually an explanation is given. <S>'s are often given, if not always....
Pity we can not use an average 10vs10 players. That would be more than enough ;)
Cheers,
Pepe
-
I HO as a rule when in my jug in CT. :)
-
CT was release prematurely, IMO. With 1.08 in the works, they're putting all of their effort into that (at least I assume they are!) Once 1.08 is released, they can work on improving the CT playability some. Perhaps adding some scoring methods so that the players advance the planeset and situation, and not have it advanced on a time schedule. :)
-
Interesting, when the Combat Theater first became active, there were oodles of "I'll be flying in here from now on" kind of posts. Have even the diehards gone insane from the incessant sounds of crickets :)
One of the first things that strike me about that Theater is you are dealing with a HUGE amount of terrain/area and so few players. I've flown around in there and unless I taunted in Channel 1, I wouldnt see a thing.
You guys indicate 1.08 will change a few things....like?
Its nice to have a N1K free room and I don't mind the limted planesets, its a change from the Main. But for a while, the anti-buff atitudes in there were pretty annoying. Yes, I bombed a few fuels and made you take off further away. You failed to shoot me down so I made it to target :) Deal with it! (Heck I was a lowly Ju88, slightly better defended than a blimp).
I still stick my head in there from time to time, but I also wonder if this room will suffer the same fate as the Dueling Arena. Lots of initial hype, then largely forgotten.
-
eddeik when you came on and appologised for ranting i thought you understood that we were not even anywhere near you.We were at a2 planning to fly 2 ju88s and 2 190s to hit a factory.
You accuse us of waiting until your fuel ran out before flying?
Im sorry but that is annoying. Ive told people on the allies side my exact position and alt in order to get fights when numbers are low.I would not avoid a fight and neither would ram.It just so happened we wanted to do another bomb run and as we planned the tartget you mouthed off at us.
if you want instant fights id suggest DA or MA.If you like the idea of real distances and time and an authentic opponent go CT.
no ones forcing you! and id rather not be accused of trying to avoid a fight because you happened to fly to the wrong area.
If you noticed we were flying those bomb runs alone before you got in.Just for the sheer hell of it but thats what we felt like doing.if you HAD stumbled upon the bombers then all well and good.
please dont bring me into an anti CT complaint.I fly in CT how i like.seems to me what you want is in MA, go there eh?
-
1.08 itself won't change the CT much other than adding some new targets. I think the positive changes will happen weeks after 1.08 is out when the dev guys can actually work on improving it. Yes, this is becoming my new mantra for the CT. :D
-
Did I rub ya the wrong way, eh, Hazed? ;)
Hey, fly the missions however you want. I can relate to telling the other side where ya are so the fight can develop. Funked and others have done that on more than one occasion, and it wasn't due to low numbers, it was to get some action going, and with the fediddleed dar system in place now, the LW was not gonna find us without our help.
As to planning yer mission, it must have been something really complex, as your group dropped off dar when I was at 10K and still over England, headed northeast. I made the French coast at just over 22K, kept climbing, and still no sign of opposition.
In hindsight, I was and am wrong to assume people would play this game the way I want it played...that is selfish of me, I know.
But when I take to the air in that arena, I am looking for a fight. Advantage or disadvantage, I don't care. Call it mindless if ya want, makes me no difference. I was under the impression that hardcore guys wanted to see Allied vs Axis matchups in there. That is the thing that drew me to the arena in the first place. Different people go there seeking different things I know.
As for my statement about "avoiding the fight", I stand by it. Anytime a con is over England, if an Allied pilot is online, he will take off to do battle. The last 4 times I have been over France, I have seen zilch, zero, nada LW planes. Big goose egg. I taunt them over channel 1, always the same tone to their replies. "We're coming," "it takes a long time to get to XXK feet," "you're an alt monkey" (LOVE that one :p ).
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that you did take off to do battle, and the dar just did not show you.........
As for "instant fights" I have no idea what you are talking about....figure out how long it takes to burn one DT and over 75% internal fuel on a Jug with the fuel multiplier in the CT, and tell me if that is indicative of "instant" action.
"Authentic" opponents? Didn't know the LW let enemy planes roam unchallenged over their territory, but if say so, I will accept that. I was always under the impression that the LW fiercely defended their airspace.....
Since that is what you felt like doing, all I got to say is go for it.
-
I still fly CT almost exclusively, but unfortunately I don't have the time to fly very often. HTCs low price is great, allowed me to subscribe despite being a poor starving student. But I may cancel my account anyway because school is simply taking too much of my time. I can't afford to pay for a service I am not using :(
The numbers in the CT are a problem, but I can't make people fly there. Hell, I can't even fly there much myself right now. If the CT goes away, so will my account. I get what I want from AH more from HtH than I ever have from MA. CT for me guarantees the host is using the rules I prefer. MA guarantees that I will not get what I like.
In a more perfect world, the CT would always be packed, balanced, and full of squads flying missions assigned by a central command and I would have all the free time in the world to explore the various tactical problems faced by pilots flying all the aircraft and missions ever flown in the war. I guess I can keep hoping for my flight sim heaven.
-
We don't get the chance to fly too much, but when we do, we fly in the CT... Wednesday nights, hope to see some allies in there to shoot us down!!!
-
Originally posted by eddiek:
The last 4 times I have been over France, I have seen zilch, zero, nada LW planes.
In fact (looking throught the window) I see no LW plane currently :D
And btw Evreux the place were I live was a LW base ... like Beaumont le Roger
-
When I sit here and read this, I feel like I am sitting thru a re-run of a bad movie, or a serious case of dejavu.
When all the screams, yells, and mashing of teeth were going on, "WE WANT A HISTORIC ARENA!!!" (remember all the 100+ post threads?), several people including myself, tried to explain how it went in Warbirds Historical Arena. In other words, Lots of talk, but nobody shows up to play and the arena stays a wasteland to this day.
Even Pyro tried to rationally explain what he and the rest of HTC had learned with that first attempt. But he was shouted down with cries of "I'll be there!".... "I won't fly anything else!!".... "Of course everyone will want to fly there, its HISTORICALLY ACCURATE MATCHUPS !!!"
Two important items that you can never forget if you want a successful CT. 1.) Critical Mass. 2.) Most people don't give a rats bellybutton about historical accuracy as long as they have fun.
*shrugs*
to paraphrase a famous quote
Never forget history or you are doomed to repeat it.
Good Luck Guys! I hope you get things worked out to your satisfaction, and the CT becomes everything you had hoped for.
[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: Vermillion ]
-
Vermillion,
Very well stated, my thoughts exactly.
They got what they wanted, and abandoned it.
-
blahh blahh blahhh, old ladies if you ask me...
Pepe/Sancho/Frenchy 5754656543 / Saw 1
I love it :D
-
Who got what they wanted LePaul? I don't recall anybody who asked for this exact arena setup.
I don't remember anybody asking for no strat, or broken radar, or a map with huge flying times, etc.
[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
eddiek please leave me out of this crap.
I defend and i attack eddeik.are you trying to make out i was worried about fighting you?
whilst you flew to france i was talking about forming a squad for each CT map that was in that theatre.thats why i was sitting in the tower so long.To be honest i didnt read anything you said until ram replied to you.Youve got an inflated ego if you think people change what they do for fear of running into you.
You have made an assumption here that is quite simply wrong.I cant talk for the other 3 guys but i suspect they would say the same.
We were all talking on country channel and by the time we got everyone clued up on the target, a fuel factory which the others didnt know about in southern england I started to notice you piping up about where are the LW and the CT is dead and too boring for you or whatever you were saying.I simply wasnt taking notice then when i did i just tried to ignore it, its not what i spend time in CT for eddeik.
As to your point that this is where the hardcore flyers go to find a real fight and fly straight to it with or without advantage.Yes maybe now and again but for some its the place to take your time and fly in formation and use wingman tactics or squad tactics etc.This theatre is for those that want historical matchups and for myself more missions with groups/squads flown how they did back then.That just happens to attract some good players and many newbies i might add(when they see it filling up :()
I cant be bothered to go on eddiek but take it from me you have got the wrong idea about what happened and this is getting on my nerves having to explain it on the BB.
Ive taken off to fight a 20k fighter over my bases many times eddiek,it just so happened i wasnt aware of what you was doing nor did i care after you start accusing me of planning away waiting for your fuel to run out! its laughable.
Next time ill stop what im doing when you arrive and ill fly directly for you ok. i'll forget the fact that i might be having fun doing some bombing missions and I'll do what YOU want me to do.after all who am i to say no to you eh?
like i said, you've got the wrong end of the stick.
[ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
-
Hi All,
I think Verm quoted it best.....
Originally posted by Vermillion:
"WE WANT A HISTORIC ARENA!!!" (remember all the 100+ post threads
What we got was not a "Historical Arena". What we got was a "Combat Arena" the two are nothing like each other. I spent most of my time in the CT because I like the historical aircraft match ups, What I do not like is zero Strat, Hopefully this will be at least partially rectified in 1.08 although I have no idea exactly how. The excellent "Fluid Front" idea certainly won't come with the next release I'm sure.
I think the main reason for lack of participation is the lack of pilot ranking. Despite most people insisting they don't give a Sh*t about the score I think they do, :p I think there are a lot of players who need to be at the top of their game and spending time in the CT gives them no benefit's at all. The supposedly long flying times are not an issue IMO. The current ETO map has very short flying times but still they don't come. The lack of Strat in effect means no reward for the bomber pilots and the GV & goon drivers don't even bother having a look. I get very little time to fly at the moment (How many times have we heard that) but I will continue to fly in the CT in the hope that it will turn the corner and become the "Historical Arena" we all asked for, but with Terrains which are basically flawed (Being shot down by friendly ack, Unreliable Radar, incorrect aircraft enabled etc), it has become the "Bastard child". :( Historically War is all about Strat and terrain capture, this has none.
I'm still on the original band wagon of "WE WANT A HISTORIC ARENA!!!" co's this ain't it.
(Sorry for the comments about the terrain short comings, - No offence intended, I do know how hard these things are to create, I've tried on & off since the editor came out and I still ain't got one you can actually fly in). :rolleyes:
TTFN
snafu
-
Yep that is what I believe is missing too. Without a way to take territory CT is just a historically more correct dueling arena.
I like the suggestion of simulation a fluid front. This would give vehicle guys and ground pounders a variety of targets. Just a suggestion but I love the paratrooper idea too. Fighter Ace has a great "territorial combat" concept. Players damage enemy scenes enough to get a trigger and tanks (friendly and enemy) are spawned and take the scene. Paratroopers could be used just like they are now to hold a scene but would have to be defended against enemy armour/counterattack. The field would be a "pocket" and the front would have to link up with it or more goons flown in to "resupply" the surrounded troops. Landing craft or Troop Ships could be used to deliver the intitial armour/infantry across the channel and then the AI takes over running the ground forces/reinforcements.
The Invasion could even happen according to the Game timeline controlled by the AI but influenced by the players. If the players don't get one going first. The possibilities are endless.
I subscribed to AH specifically because of the New Combat Arena. It was a blast when populated. I will hold on for awhile and see were it goes. I started playing Fighter Ace again and FA3 is in Beta. Sure looks good at least the Eye Candy. I like flying for a country not a chess piece and Have become a dedicated LW pilot in FA. The FA LW flight models I feel are better. Pretty much everything I've read LW pilots did that worked in reality works in FA. I'm mostly Allied fodder in AH. I will not pay for something I don't use.
Flying in the main arena is a circus. Might have been fun when I was 12 but constanly fighting spits, NiKi's and other late war Uberplanes for a chess piece isn't my cup of tea. I want a sim not AirQuake. Yes I do think at this time FA is a better overall sim of the Airwar enviroment. It just doesn't have the eye candy of AH.
-
verm
In other words, Lots of talk, but nobody shows up to play and the arena stays a wasteland to this day.
bd5
Very well stated, my thoughts exactly.
They got what they wanted, and abandoned it.
Part of the problem is the "them and us" attitude or the "I told you so" attitude. Constructive criticism is welcome. Pointing fingers is not.
I for one have flown in there almost exclusively since it came out. Though his very weekend I did fly in the MA because I wanted to be with some squadies and had a blast in the MA as I do in the CT. Don't lump "us" all together.
-
Unfortunately, the door swings quite easily both ways.
How often do you hear the MA described with terms like "dweeb, dweebery, quake, quakers, HO dweebs.. etc."?
Which group voluntarily (and routinely) isolates itself while depicting those who don't share similar goals as a lesser order of players?
That's the trouble with slinging mud; generally all participants get some on themselves.
-
Quite often, but not by this player.
-
Hazed, check yer messages.
-
Daddog, I didn't say you did.
But why take Verm and BD5 to task when they've merely done the same thing that the other side has done, albeit in a much, much more polite manner?
Evenhandedness would require taking those who mock the MA players to task as well, would it not?
-
Toad, the problem is people who turn it into "sides". Daddog was probably commenting on BD5 and Vermillion's posts because they were doing exactly that. No real constructive purpose, just negativity, directed apparently at anybody who desires a more historical setup than the MA.
[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
Agreed Toad, but I did not see anything in the posts to further develop HTC. Do you?
I do consider myself "one of those" historical nuts and never appreciate sweeping comments of Lots of talk, but nobody shows up to play and the arena stays a wasteland to this day.
It is not a wasteland, people do show up. I don't see how that helps.
I have never viewed AH as just an MA sim. I knew it would develop beyond that and have looked forward to "historical events" since we moved here. Not much was going on when the Mongrels first moved here so I became a CM. With a lot of help, designed the Snapshots and Check 6 events, and now the TOD. These events, (weekly or the large multi frame events we have every few months) are and have been an essential part to the development of AH. The dueling arena, training arena, special events arena, and now the combat theatre are also. Each in there own way serve customers.
Some people would walk by a hole that someone fell in and say "What an idiot" and keep going. Others would stop and ask "how can I help". This forum and entire BB could use a lot more of the latter.
The stone often recoils on to the head of the thrower.
Elizabeth I
-
Clipped from this thread:
"No dweebery that I can think of"
"I want a sim not AirQuake"
Funked, who is turning it into "sides"?
Do these qualify as "No real constructive purpose, just negativity"? :)
No Daddog, I didn't see anything Verm's or BD's posts to further develop HTC.
Do you see anything in the above clipped comments that would further HTC?
It's all the pot calling the kettle black... and counterproductive on BOTH sides of the issue.
[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]
-
Toad, those two quotes you used don't support your point too well, but I know what you mean. None of the negative stuff helps anybody. Especially the "sides" stuff. I believe there are definitely two camps here though, simmers and gamers. Those names are stereotypes and not really true, but there are two groups for sure. The problem is some of the guys on each side call the other side names, and it gives a bad name to both sides of the argument. A lot of the resentment is the result of having one arena for so long, where players with different tastes had no choice but to play in the least common denominator format. Hopefully if there is some development of the CT this pressure will be eased, or at least people will start whining about the CT instead of whining about the MA. :)
[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
Thanks, Funked. ( You know I could go get 100+ quotes that are extremely germane if it really made a difference; but it doesn't because everyone knows what we're talking about here.)
The point is made.
Neither side is doing the game any favors. I am, like TOTALLY sick of people dissing other people who don't play the way they "should".
My .02?
Play The Game The Way You Like To Play. (and Zip It!) ;)
[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]
-
Just give CT the same radar as MA... make it possible for people to find the scarce fights. That is one immediate way to increase the numbers at CT.
And forget the "realism" counter arguments. Dots on dar are a perfect substitute for the missing wingman/flight/squadron/groundcontrol radio communication.
Most people intrested in CT want the historical plane set... but not the uneventful sightseeing flights!
-
Amen Blauk.......wish I had presented my views that way.
-
I stopped flying in CT when that day I saw a dozen SpitVs, reportedly on 25% fuel, doing nothing and I mean nothing else but coming over at SL and furballing. I was hoping for something more and my first few days in there were OK, a few buff intercepts here and there some fites in my 109G6 vs Typhoons and Spits, but since then it has not been good.
-
I think the problem (one and only) with CT is lack of strategics/land capture.
Once here, I have split feelings. IF strategics/land capture is implemented in CT, we will see same buff dweebery as in MA. And the only thing that question seriously my AH addiction is precisely that.
All in all, although I usually start my AH dose flying a lone Ju88 and blasting some defenseless base from 10k, I think it's quite OK as it is now. I need no more than another opponent to have MUCH more fun than in MA. When we are 12 in that Arena, the thing is tons better.
If they put Buffs in CT like they are in MA, I know I will be p**sed off when a skill-less stratodweeb pinpoint some fuel/ammo/whatever with impunity, and leave CT.
Dunno what will happen on this side, but I fear they (current Buffs implementation) will destroy CT fun. For me, at the time being it's more tense, less quakeish, and rewards better pilots more consistently than MA. And this is fun, in my book.
S!, CT fighters. Lots (if not all) class act guys in here. :)
Cheers,
Pepe
-
What about having an automtic mission générator ?
It will force player to act like in real war
-
Dont touch CT!!!!
:mad:
You want your quake sim?
Stay in MA. :D
When I want to have fun I go in MA, when I want to be realistic, I go in CT.
Long flights without contact with enemy, quick fights with very good pilots, knowing when to disengage and run away.
If nobody is there, I grab a bomber and do some long range mission.
Only thing missing, imho, is territorial conquer, the frontline moving.
The numbers are low?
Well, we know, dweebs are more than expected ;) :D
-
Agreed Toad, funked. :)
-
love the room but kinda lonely in there lately..
needs to have at least 6 players (3 vs 3 .. hopefully) to justify time flying/finding fights. sometimes go in with less but not very often. then being a die hard GE, if GE has more ppl than Allies, I'll bail to MA b4 switching to Allies...sorry, just my preference.
-
Daddog et all....
I was merely agreeing with what someone else said. No need to spin it or chastise me for it. We had lots of people in there when it was new, now...well...its largely vacant.
Why? Who knows...I know for me, as a bomber pilot, I was getting nastygrams for shooting Spits down in a Ju88 and I was also getting crap for bombing bases IF I did manage to survive the poundings from the Spits!
I'm not the historical nut Daddog and others are, but I do enjoy variety from time to time, and that's why I fly the TODs and such. So, sure, I'd love to see the Combat Theater evolve into something different than the Main Arena. I'd really like to see HTC do some experimenting in the Combat Room...anything from different plane sets, to no perk points to different weather conditions and maps.
But as the room is now, its a large Dueling Arena. I am interested in seeing how the Combat Theater develops with 1.08 and future releases.
-
I like Toad's comment. Fly where you like and shut up about what the other guy is doing. :)