Fantastic discussion. Listening to him talk about the inevitable collapse of the globalized trade system gives me the creeps. Makes me think of the late Bronze Age systems collapse.
Some think that any complex system is always destined to collapse. As complexity increase, failure point increase exponentially and the less resilient the system becomes.
Or maybe it's just the entropy of the Cosmos.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: GasTeddy on January 08, 2023, 03:47:06 PM
Collapse is inevitable. We've been brainwashed from the beginning to believe the necessity of economical growth and that has lead to a situation, which this planet cannot support any more. Too much folks using too much resources, balloon is growing until it says "pox".
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: fd ski on January 09, 2023, 07:51:14 AM
he's a smart guy. I've been watching his videos for couple of months now. Can't deny his logic, however there is a difference between "things will change" and "world is collapsing". Things will change, order is changing, but we humans adapt. We always did before. If you took a guy who signed a bill of rights and explained to him an industrial revolution which was coming up next - it would make no sense. If you took a 19th century industralist and told him about internet revolution, he'd see you as a loon.
Something new is coming. It might not be better, but we'll manage.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 09, 2023, 09:36:21 AM
he's a smart guy. I've been watching his videos for couple of months now. Can't deny his logic, however there is a difference between "things will change" and "world is collapsing". Things will change, order is changing, but we humans adapt. We always did before. If you took a guy who signed a bill of rights and explained to him an industrial revolution which was coming up next - it would make no sense. If you took a 19th century industralist and told him about internet revolution, he'd see you as a loon.
Something new is coming. It might not be better, but we'll manage.
I sorta disagree with that because the fellas who signed the bill of rights and created the constitution wanted to see massive capitalized growth from regular citizens. That was their prime motive. Perhaps they didn't know what it would look like, but I believe these guys were some of the smartest people on the planet and could perceive the type of growth possible if the people were allowed to gain wealth and prosperity. They were ahead of their time.
I don't believe an economic collapse will happen. It's "too big to fail" at this point. They realize they cannot print money fast enough so they want to make it digital, which won't be good, IMO. Too easy to manipulate like everything else and they can cut you off at any moment for wrong think and destroy your social credit. The Fed is the strongest force on the planet and our military won't do a damn thing to those people who vote to pay for their subsidies. The founders did not want a standing Amry for many reasons such as this one.
I don't know how it will end up, but I don't see a massive collapse because then the revolution will really come to them. People are still too preocupied on their bread and circus and too laid back for war right now. They don't want to lose it all for a restart just yet.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Eagler on January 09, 2023, 05:17:19 PM
Legalize cannabis next
It's Huxley's brave new world soma of the day
Eagler
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 09, 2023, 05:48:07 PM
What's so bad about Cannabis? It can be used for many different things. If grown and used correctly can be a very good resource in case of emergency. I've never understood the arguement against cannabis while they choke on their bottles... never understood it.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Eagler on January 10, 2023, 01:26:59 PM
Nothing - but it does make many lazy and lethargic not to mention just plain stupid..
I have consumed it personally in many forms since 1975
I can see it as soma for many as they are lazy to begin with .. that and free pizza delivery will buy many votes lol
If alcohol is legal there is not an intelligent reason cannibis should not be..too bad some conservatives can't get behind it and push for it's legalization...instead it will be a liberal win
Eagler
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 10, 2023, 02:40:50 PM
What's so bad about Cannabis? It can be used for many different things. If grown and used correctly can be a very good resource in case of emergency. I've never understood the arguement against cannabis while they choke on their bottles... never understood it.
How so? I don’t know of any live saving properties of consuming THC, please explain.
We’ve had this debate about alcohol before, I think you have a skewed perspective about people who drink. I know/have known many alcoholics, however the large majority of ppl I know who drink don’t to get drunk or abuse it.
A few drinks is world away from babbling stumbling drunk.
On the other hand 99% of ppl I know who consume cannabis do it to get high. Our TikTok society is not responsible enough handle either as the plandemic has shown.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 11, 2023, 12:17:31 PM
How so? I don’t know of any live saving properties of consuming THC, please explain.
We’ve had this debate about alcohol before, I think you have a skewed perspective about people who drink. I know/have known many alcoholics, however the large majority of ppl I know who drink don’t to get drunk or abuse it.
A few drinks is world away from babbling stumbling drunk.
On the other hand 99% of ppl I know who consume cannabis do it to get high. Our TikTok society is not responsible enough handle either as the plandemic has shown.
Well you must not have seen a recent college party or college bar in a while. I bet UGA was a crapshow the other night. Partying there is crazy, ive done it. "Having a few drinks" even though it's just a few, is still "getting high". Actually cannabis brings down drunkenness in a way but can also cause the spins. It's a different type of "high" no doubt, but cannabis is far better for you and keeps your mind sane and rational where as alcohol causes far more emotional outputs. If you've ever seen a smoker circle compared to a party with alcohol you'd see what I'm talking about.
What I meant by that post is that cannabis can be used in many other forms rather just smoking THC. CBD and other properties in terpines provide different forms of relief which is quite interesting. Not only for health, but you can make strong rope with it for levers, you can make clothes, paper, and do a lot of things with it incase you couldn't run to the store in a lockdown emergency or some crap.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Mano on January 11, 2023, 07:02:51 PM
His insight on China is in line with many other authors concerning the ultimate failure of the CCP and their struggle to stay in power. Massive unemployment and food shortages are a very real possibility. I hope that does not happen. No one including him really knows if there is a successor available should Xi Jinping succumb to hostile forces in the party or from outside. An outside force might replace him and then it becomes academic.
As he states it is likely many provinces will go independent like Xinjiang and Shanghai should that happen. The Uyghurs live in the Xinjiang region.
As far as Russia, the entire world knows Russia cannot afford the war with the Ukraine because they have a tiny economy and they depend on the export of petroleum and gas, and manufactured goods from the west. He believes there is a high probability there will be a regime change soon. Shortages of food and manufactured goods will hurt the Russian people. No one wants to see anyone suffer. He does give insight into the regime's thought process.
He has access to this information is because he contracts with the Defense Department.
He also mentions battery cells for electric vehicles but does admit to knowing very little about cell chemistry. If you did not study chemistry in college nor do research in chemistry this is a very difficult topic to understand.
Some battery makers no longer use Co or very little, and many have started using LFP batteries and other chemistries are evolving because of their cost savings. He attempts to lump all battery makers into one category as being polluters for the environment. His intel is pretty old. He does not differentiate between battery makers like CATL and BYD in China who get their electricity from coal fired generators, but even that is changing rapidly as China finds ways to get rid of their air pollution. Other producers like LG Chem in Korea, Panasonic in Japan (and USA), and Tesla in the USA are nothing like their counterparts in China. If you have seen pictures of Tesla's battery factory in Nevada you will notice solar panels on the roof, the absence of any smoke stacks of any kind, and the proximity to Hoover Dam Hydroelectric plant as another source of their energy. Tesla also produces batteries in Lathrop, CA and Austin, TX. These new plants are just going online.
Cell chemistry is evolving rapidly and he does not have any access to this information because those that do the research do not share this info openly. As patents are recorded they often have very broad non specific ingredients listed to avoid letting their competition learn their process of manufacturing. He does mention China has trouble doing their own R and D, and often copy or backward engineer a product to save time and money. That hurts a company in the long run if they do not do their own research.
If Chile strip mines their Li, no one is going to tell the Chileans how to extract the Li from their mines. As better more efficient techniques come out, Chile will adapt to the new ways of obtaining Li.
Many battery makers will find ways to eliminate the use of Li and Co in the very near future and lower costs, increase energy density, as well as increasing recharge speeds. There are questions about children being exploited in the mining of Co as well.
The battery evolution has just begun. Look how fast the television changed over the decades. Are there any non flat tv's left? Cell phones have turned into powerful computers. We may see in the next decade car batteries that recharge in a few minutes.
His take on climate change is somewhat skewed. He did not mention that our sun has more effect on the climate than all other factors combined. I agree we do need to focus on removing all pollutants from the air we breath, and clean up our streams, rivers and oceans. Telling people CO2 is our enemy is silly. Nurseries use CO2 tanks to promote growth of plants because plants respire CO2 and produce Oxygen as their waste. Our enemy is the Nitrous Oxides, Sulfur Oxides, Carbon monoxide and many others as these molecules contaminate our environment. Pollutants in our streams from manufacturing plants needs to be monitored and corrected.
The earths climate will change a lot and go to many extremes I am sure, but I have not observed any changes to the water level along the coastline since I have been alive. If there has been a change I would guess inches or centimeters only. The samples taken from the polar ice caps are a great source of intel on the changing of the climate of our planet earth. Avoid FUD and do your own research. Science journals with peer review are the best source of information. If the authors provide a non conflict of interest statement that is even better.
my two cents.
:salute
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 11, 2023, 07:38:12 PM
I've always felt that battery technology has not seemed to improve nearly as much as our other technologies. Doesn't seem batteries obey Moore's Law. Imagine if they did!
I mean, isn't my truck battery pretty much close to 1880's technology? Lead\acid?
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: nrshida on January 12, 2023, 02:34:57 AM
Well you must not have seen a recent college party or college bar in a while. I bet UGA was a crapshow the other night. Partying there is crazy, ive done it. "Having a few drinks" even though it's just a few, is still "getting high". Actually cannabis brings down drunkenness in a way but can also cause the spins. It's a different type of "high" no doubt, but cannabis is far better for you and keeps your mind sane and rational where as alcohol causes far more emotional outputs. If you've ever seen a smoker circle compared to a party with alcohol you'd see what I'm talking about.
What I meant by that post is that cannabis can be used in many other forms rather just smoking THC. CBD and other properties in terpines provide different forms of relief which is quite interesting. Not only for health, but you can make strong rope with it for levers, you can make clothes, paper, and do a lot of things with it incase you couldn't run to the store in a lockdown emergency or some crap.
I felt mostly the same about MJ until I was about 30, I’m 47 now.
I went to CSU during the transition from Mex bud to hydro-grown (“kind bud”) and the Grower’s Handbook was in practically every rental house. Boulder is 45mins away…
I continue to stand by what I said in our previous conversation about this subject, that being I don’t know of one single person that got into hard drugs that didn’t smoke MJ habitually beforehand. Many of them (not the majority) just weren’t interested in drinking. Unfortunately many of them are dead, some have been for 30yrs and others just recently.
Your adamant stance says your a daily user, so a question for you, can you remember your dreams? How often, maybe one night a week or month, or hardly ever?
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: nrshida on January 12, 2023, 09:59:15 AM
Sounds so green..especially to those battery manufacturers...$$$$ green that is lol
You're so cynical Eagler! Are you saying the environment and the sustainment of organised human civilisation is not the focus but rather getting rich not necessarily contributing any value to said aforementioned organised human civilisation presumably to be able to afford a ticket on the intergalactic Musk Arc Rocket when it's all over? :old:
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Eagler on January 12, 2023, 10:05:42 AM
You're so cynical Eagler! Are you saying the environment and the sustainment of organised human civilisation is not the focus but rather getting rich not necessarily contributing any value to said aforementioned organised human civilisation presumably to be able to afford a ticket on the intergalactic Musk Arc Rocket when it's all over? :old:
I prefer realistic but they seem to be aligned these days
Eagler
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2023, 10:07:33 AM
I don't know a single person who got onto hard drugs that didn't drink water at some point in their life. I think that proves water is the gateway drug. Because correlation is causation, right?
Really, if people were honest they would admit that beer is almost always the first intoxicant that most everyone is exposed too. Yet that is never considered as a gateway.
But prohibitionists are rarely interested in being honest.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: nrshida on January 12, 2023, 10:14:29 AM
I don't know a single person who got onto hard drugs that didn't drink water at some point in their life. I think that proves water is the gateway drug. Because correlation is causation, right?
Really, if people were honest they would admit that beer is almost always the first intoxicant that most everyone is exposed too. Yet that is never considered as a gateway.
But prohibitionists are rarely interested in being honest.
Prohibitionists 🤣
You and your labels, it must be tiresome.
I don’t care one way or the other what you put in your body.
What ppl? Your anecdotal experience is beer…hypocrite
Your Mar-a-largo thread seems pretty hilarious while we’re all laughing about.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2023, 11:06:02 AM
What ppl? Your anecdotal experience is beer…hypocrite
Compared to your anecdotes?
A prohibitionist's anecdotes are science. Anyone's else's is hypocrisy. Got it.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 12, 2023, 11:23:11 AM
I think alcohol makes you far more susceptible to trying hard drugs because it takes away your "care factor" much more than thc does. I think it's mostly the stigma that it's illegal that might get them to think its okay to try other illegal drugs in the "well weed wasn't so bad so these probably aren't either". That being said, far more domestic violence incidents and alcoholic diseases are prevalent with alcohol compared to thc. I'm not saying alcohol should be illegal, just that it's actually much worse than thc there is just a strange stigma behind Thc due to propaganda for some reason or another that gives people a false perception.
I remember some dreams. Just depends on how profound they are.
Like Eagler said though. I also agree that many drugs arent used improperly by humans. Things like DMT and Mushrooms can go a long way to solving mental health issues if administered in the right settings over watched by doctors. It would be cool if there was a place ordinary people could go to for that. Some are just too deadly and need to be ended thru military force to stop from literally decaying our citizens from the inside.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2023, 11:41:22 AM
I think alcohol makes you far more susceptible to trying hard drugs because it takes away your "care factor" much more than thc does.
Alcohol (i.e. beer) is obviously the most common intoxicant that most people are exposed to first. The first thing that makes them think, "this is great. I wonder what else can make me feel this good."
If cannabis has any role as a gateway, it is because of prohibition itself. If you go to a pusher for your weed, he is almost assuredly going to try and upsell to harder drugs at some point because cannabis has a low profit margin because of its low price and bulk vs cost of production and transport. Coke and other harder drugs are much more profitable per kilo.
A pusher will not hesitate to sell to a minor. A dispensary owner who had spent tens of thousands on his shop, and thousands more on licensing, and is making great revenue, is not likely to risk all that investment on selling to a minor. There are plenty of adults to sell to and profit to make.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Mano on January 12, 2023, 11:52:05 AM
Different chargers and charging techniques affect it
Battery composition and quality affect it
What is the motivation to make long lasting batteries?
None I say as we just toss the old ones into the nearest landfill while waiting for Amazon to deliver its replacement to our front door..
Sounds so green..especially to those battery manufacturers...$$$$ green that is lol
Eagler
Hiya Eagler <S>
You will not find Electric car batteries at the local land fill because they are way to valuable. If someone did dump one, you would see workers fighting over the battery cells. The minerals used are expensive and can be recovered. You may find lots of alkaline batteries and old lead acid batteries but not electric car battery cells. Companies like Tesla, BYD, and CATL have methods to recover spent batteries because the minerals present are easier to recover than mining the minerals from scratch. Many older Teslas have between 300,000 and 500,000 miles on their original battery packs. If owners follow the charging instructions they will see their battery packs last for a very long time. A lot of FUD is created because Tesla does not spend a penny on advertising. Legacy car makers spend billions every year. When you read an article check the source carefully.
There are not many battery companies making batteries for EV’s at the moment but we will see new companies emerge in the near future to get in on this lucrative market. The resistance to build battery factories will be the demise of GM, Toyota, and Ford. There is a learning curve to mass producing battery cells and these three companies may have missed their window of opportunity.
:salute
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2023, 12:18:50 PM
Want a small example of the mind-boggling hypocrisy of the prohibitionist argument in regards to the harm reduction excuse for our cannabis laws? Just look at the relative LD-50 of various things we have legal access to in comparison to cannabis.
LD-50 is the amount of a substance relative to a normal dose that a testing cohort would have to consume for 50% of them to die. It is a measure of risk. For instance say I have a substance called Foo Juice. Say a normal dose is 1g\hr. Lets say the LD-50 is 1.2g\hr. That is a very dangerous substance. It wouldn’t take exceeding the normal dose by much to hit a lethal dose. That’s how fentanyl kills so many.
“At present it is estimated that marijuana’s LD-50 is around1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.”
“ For a 130 lb. man or woman drinking very quickly, it would only require about 10-14 drinks in an hour to reach the lethal level.”
A “drink” is a shot or 12oz beer. Excessive, but doable at a frat party beer bonging.
https://www.chem.fsu.edu/chemlab/chm1020lmanual/exp20/module20alcohol.htm#:~:text=The%20%22lethal%20dose%22%20(LD)%20of%20alcohol%20is%20clinically,40%25. (https://www.chem.fsu.edu/chemlab/chm1020lmanual/exp20/module20alcohol.htm#:~:text=The%20%22lethal%20dose%22%20(LD)%20of%20alcohol%20is%20clinically,40%25.) Or maybe just 6 liters of water:
“More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)” https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm#:~:text=Cigarettes%20and%20Death,-Cigarette%20smoking%20causes&text=More%20than%20480%2C000%20deaths%20annually,including%20deaths%20from%20secondhand%20smoke) (https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm#:~:text=Cigarettes%20and%20Death,-Cigarette%20smoking%20causes&text=More%20than%20480%2C000%20deaths%20annually,including%20deaths%20from%20secondhand%20smoke))
Yet I can get beer and cigarettes at any local grocery store, and water out of my tap.
All that ignores the point that as an adult it is my business to decided the risks I take and what I consume. I don't assign any one else authority to dictate that to me. If you do then you have no excuse to not accept that principle when they outlaw cheeseburgers, pizza, sky diving, motorcycles. All it takes is a nanny-prohibitionist to say they need to make those illegal because they know what's best for you.
(Next the prohibitionist will try and bring up driving while impaired. We already have laws for that. I accept not driving while impaired because that would effect other peoples safety without them making the choice. You are currently not allowed to drive impaired. That covers not only cannabis, but alcohol, cough medicine, anti-depressants or even lack of sleep. It is illegal to drive while impaired by anything. No separate laws are needed for cannabis.)
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Eagler on January 12, 2023, 01:16:39 PM
Can they accurately test for thc while driving?
It stays in your body for a very long time - took me just about 4 weeks once to pass a test for a contracting gig around 5 years ago..
Thanks for the battery info Mano..
I just know everything that runs on batteries takes an expensive dump sooner than later from my phone to my dewalt drills...
Eagler
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2023, 01:37:06 PM
It stays in your body for a very long time - took me just about 4 weeks once to pass a test for a contracting gig around 5 years ago..
They were working on a breathalyzer at one point.
But they don't have breathalyzers for cough medicine, fentanyl, cocaine, valium, anti-depressants, lack of sleep, or anything else. All of which can illegally impair your driving.
How you would handle it is a road-side motor skills sobriety test. If you pass the test, then obviously you are not impaired enough to be a risk. If you fail the test but don't blow an alcohol level, you can still be arrested and take to the station for a blood draw.
Active THC would be present in the blood sample. What they look for in an employment test also included cannabis metabolites. The left over traces of having metabolized THC in the past. Those can remain detectable in urine for two weeks to a month depending on many factors including body fat%, and level of use. If they take a hair sample, they can detect stuff 6 months old trapped in the growth segments of the hair follicle (like tree rings). Looking for metabolites is not valid because it might have been weeks since you last smoked and in no way proves you were driving impaired at the time.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2023, 07:54:28 PM
opp bad edit
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Nefarious on January 18, 2023, 09:01:44 AM
I caught up on Ziehan after watching some clips on JR (I don't watch or listen to Rogan)
He's got several videos of him speaking at conferences and such. Smart dude. Glad he's so optimistic but I don't see us getting off that easy.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: RotBaron on January 18, 2023, 09:21:23 AM
They still are working on THC breathalyzer, Phoenix PD and other AZ LE (along with many others I’m certain) agencies are major contributors to the development. We have enough impaired/distracted drivers…
DmonSlyr, I asked if you remember your dreams because most regular THC users have difficulty at best and many can’t remember their dreams (no pun intended), even vivid ones right after waking. I remember when mine came back, it was quite enlightening.
I’m not sure if you’ve ever pondered this point of view, but there are many in society that wonders what drives people to feel the need to get high using any drug at all. I understand it, but many don’t. Also, I don’t agree with your premise that a few drinks is tantamount to getting high. MJ is classified in medicine as both a hallucinogenic and also sedative hypnotic (however I’ve seen many freak out and have panic attacks), alcohol is only classified as a sedative - both in modest amounts. In large amounts properties of intoxication change…
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: turt21 on January 18, 2023, 05:12:27 PM
Your description of THC use sounds more and more like being in your late 60's. Forgetful, cant re,member a dream, lethargic sounds like retired. Does it also make you pee a lot?
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: RotBaron on January 18, 2023, 09:05:48 PM
Your description of THC use sounds more and more like being in your late 60's. Forgetful, cant re,member a dream, lethargic sounds like retired. Does it also make you pee a lot?
:rofl
I’m 47 and don’t smoke or use THC so I don’t have trouble remembering a vivid dream(s). A cursory search of MJ and lack of dreams will give you 100’s of articles about that side effect :aok
I don’t lose my truck keys or have any difficulty remembering, well, anything. Pee a lot, sure do, I drink a lot of water.
Does your weed use make you pee a lot? :rofl
Lethargic?? I’m lucky to get more than 6-7 hours of sleep and my watch says I’m on my feet for ~14hours a day/~5miles. Sooo I think not, thanks for playing though.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 19, 2023, 07:58:44 AM
They still are working on THC breathalyzer, Phoenix PD and other AZ LE (along with many others I’m certain) agencies are major contributors to the development. We have enough impaired/distracted drivers…
DmonSlyr, I asked if you remember your dreams because most regular THC users have difficulty at best and many can’t remember their dreams (no pun intended), even vivid ones right after waking. I remember when mine came back, it was quite enlightening.
I’m not sure if you’ve ever pondered this point of view, but there are many in society that wonders what drives people to feel the need to get high using any drug at all. I understand it, but many don’t. Also, I don’t agree with your premise that a few drinks is tantamount to getting high. MJ is classified in medicine as both a hallucinogenic and also sedative hypnotic (however I’ve seen many freak out and have panic attacks), alcohol is only classified as a sedative - both in modest amounts. In large amounts properties of intoxication change…
I have dreams every night. Some are pretty wild. I don't necessarily try to remember them. Some I do when they are profound but others I let slip away as it was just another interesting dream that I don't wish to remember. I think drinking a lot of water before bed helps with dreams.
You don't necessarily have to agree with my premise however the majority of people will fail a breathalyzer after just 3 beers. That means that the government suggests that just 3 beers means you are impaired (high) if blown over a .08.
There are many people who have been told by their doctors that they have a chemical embalance in their head that causes depression. They get put on antidepressants. This is merely using drugs to "cope" with the so called embalance in order to make them feel better. Many people use other drugs the same way. There is a lot of worry and fear in the world, some people just want to escape their minds. Same for pain medication. Drugs like oxycodine or percocet make you feel amazing. So good infact that it's easy for anyone to get addicted if not used properly. Pain medication gets a lot of teens because it makes them feel so so good. Then they move to heroin without understanding and this can ruin their lives and put them on the street because it blocks the "care" receptor in your brain. I've seen it where I grew up in ATL, which is one of the worst places for these drugs getting to teens. It was rampant in my highschool and I saw decent kids go to jail instead of get help. Jail ruined their lives and made them career criminals for gangs. My point is that there are a TON of stressed teens and people out there who just want to feel good instead of being stuck in their heads. Loratabs and Benzos were big too. I was luckily smart enough to stay away from the pharma pills. Far worse than THC but make you feel 10xs better. It traps these kids.
I have never experienced hallucinations with THC. I've never met anyone who has. I know people who hate alcohol just as much as others hate THC and wish they had something else to use besides alcohol but don't want to break the law. I haven't seen direct panic attacks, but I have been personally paranoid as hell after eating too much sativa gummies with 500Mg in a tiny gummy they sell in CA, I was very suprised they could sell that. I was walking around Disney land paranoid as hell after eating just half of it. We went into the Indiana Jones ride, dark with red flickering lights. I thought I might go out. But I got thru it, went on the ride and it was all good. The worst I've seen is just being so stoned that you cannot even move or lift your arms.
Compare that with getting blackout drunk which is far worse to the body and brain, and can even kill you on overdose. You make insanely horrible decisions that you don't remember, drunk text people who think you are crazy, say stupid crap or start fights. I've seen it all on alcohol. THC is just a different type of feeling but isn't as dangerous in my opinion if you abuse it like most do with alcohol.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Eagler on January 19, 2023, 09:17:48 AM
Just need ti compare violent crime while drunk to those violent crimes - if you can find any - committed while high on cannibis alone
Alcohol emboldens most with the more one consumes the more obnoxious one becomes while cannibis makes most introspective - some to the point of paranoia - if not silly with the munchies
There is a sad reason why one has been illegal while the other is not
Eagler
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2023, 09:28:18 AM
There is a sad reason why one has been illegal while the other is not
The Father of US cannabis law:
Quote
Anslinger claimed that the majority of pot smokers were minorities, including African Americans, and that marijuana had a negative effect on these “degenerate races,” such as inducing violence or causing insanity. Furthermore, he noted, “Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.” Perhaps even more worrisome to Anslinger was pot’s supposed threat to white women’s virtue. He believed that smoking pot would result in their having sex with black men.
Just need ti compare violent crime while drunk to those violent crimes - if you can find any - committed while high on cannibis alone
Alcohol emboldens most with the more one consumes the more obnoxious one becomes while cannibis makes most introspective - some to the point of paranoia - if not silly with the munchies
There is a sad reason why one has been illegal while the other is not
Eagler
I agree, no one gets stoned and beats their wife and kids.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: RotBaron on January 22, 2023, 09:52:12 PM
I agree, no one gets stoned and beats their wife and kids.
Perhaps not, but neglecting children leading to their death has/does happen. Coincidentally, just saw the Dragnet episode where the baby drowns in the bathtub during the parents weed party.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 22, 2023, 10:21:23 PM
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Nefarious on January 23, 2023, 07:20:53 AM
smells like statists up in here...
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Eagler on January 23, 2023, 07:23:20 AM
Perhaps not, but neglecting children leading to their death has/does happen. Coincidentally, just saw the Dragnet episode where the baby drowns in the bathtub during the parents weed party.
What a crock...
Ppl are stupid to start..some need zero help in acting irresponsible
Scenes from refer madness were actually used when they made it illegal
I suspect Zeihan may play up the extremes a touch for marketing purposes, but maybe not by much.
We’ve been seeing the effects of what he talks about for years now. Japan is the best example. It looked like they were going to take over the world until their demographics began to bite.
The US is even seeing mild effects. One of the big factors of the current tight labor market is that many Boomers just decided to call it quits and retire early during Covid. They are probably not coming back in huge numbers. The work force has permanently shifted slightly. But the effects here a mild compared to other places.
Japan has basically stalled out economically and became a nation of old people. There are not nearly enough young Japanese to maintain their previous economic power. And there will probably never be again. A fundamental problem with Japan, is they are extremely xenophobic. Their culture is hyper adverse to anything other than an ethnically pure society. They’ll let you come in on a work visa, but it is extremely hard to go immigrate there permanently and become a Japanese citizen. To them, being Japanese isn’t about accepting a form of government and rule of law, it’s about genetics. That is very inflexible and brittle. So they have no method of injecting new breeding stock into their demographics. Guest workers will only get you so far. They tend to take their learned skills and wealth away when they eventually leave. They can hold that off a while by continued technological advancement to increase their populations productivity, but that is a curve of diminishing return. They will continue to fade.
I’m not sure I see Germany in quite the same position. Yes, they are facing demographic collapse, but I don’t think they have the cultural racism that Japan has. They can re-inflate themselves with immigration. They may not like it, but it’s not a deal breaker for them. They can pull in reasonably educated stock from all over EU and elsewhere and indoctrinate them and run with it. There are a lot of people who wouldn’t mind living in Germany.
Russia does have problems, even worse than Japan. They are also very closed, which doesn’t matter, because who would want to immigrate to that shhthole anyway. Well, maybe North Koreans. ;)
China was someone of a shock to me. I knew they had real demographic problems from the One-Child laws. I didn’t realize how bad it was. Even worse that the raw numbers is the sex imbalance. They are going to have a large population of angry young men who are never going to be able to marry and have a family. To me, that sounds reasonable. ;) To a Chinese male that is cataclysmic. In their culture that is the ultimate failure. It dishonors not only them, but their parents, and their ancestors. And they are ethnically closed like the Chinese, so marrying a Korean, or Vietnamese girl isn’t really considered and acceptable substitute. Having a large population of angry young males with no future is generally not conducive to a stable society. Throw in an economic collapse and real hunger and you have a powder keg.
I also never realized how resource poor they were and how crappy their land was for agriculture.
Russia and China are especially dangerous because they are dying cultures who may not feel they have anything else to lose.
We should feel lucky in America even with all our First World problems. We were blessed with….errrr pried from the cold dead hands of indigenous peoples...a uniquely perfect geography. We really have an embarrassment of riches. And immigration (yes it should be legal) is built into our national DNA. We can absorb anyone and eventually digest them into our culture, even though they end up adding their own diversity to our own. Believe me, I’ve eaten English food. I am so glad we traded so much culture with Mexico and appropriated their cuisine. ;)
We’ll have rough patches, but America will recover and continue to get stronger if we don’t screw it up from the inside.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Nefarious on January 23, 2023, 12:46:51 PM
We’ll have rough patches, but America will recover and continue to get stronger if we don’t screw it up from the inside.
I didn't mean Zeihan, I was actually referring to some of the replies regarding cannabis... :D
That being said, as a Libertarian/AnCap I found his appearance on Rogan very intriguing. So much so that I binged him on Youtube. I found several of his recorded appearances at oil and gas conferences/trade shows. As someone who's family and regional area depends on Natural Gas and Marcellus Shale, it was a bit of an eye opener.
While I might not agree with his optimism regarding the USA, I can see it unfolding how he describes it in regards to China, RF, Europe and the US. Hold on to your butts!
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Chris79 on January 23, 2023, 01:41:58 PM
I suspect Zeihan may play up the extremes a touch for marketing purposes, but maybe not by much.
We’ve been seeing the effects of what he talks about for years now. Japan is the best example. It looked like they were going to take over the world until their demographics began to bite.
The US is even seeing mild effects. One of the big factors of the current tight labor market is that many Boomers just decided to call it quits and retire early during Covid. They are probably not coming back in huge numbers. The work force has permanently shifted slightly. But the effects here a mild compared to other places.
Japan has basically stalled out economically and became a nation of old people. There are not nearly enough young Japanese to maintain their previous economic power. And there will probably never be again. A fundamental problem with Japan, is they are extremely xenophobic. Their culture is hyper adverse to anything other than an ethnically pure society. They’ll let you come in on a work visa, but it is extremely hard to go immigrate there permanently and become a Japanese citizen. To them, being Japanese isn’t about accepting a form of government and rule of law, it’s about genetics. That is very inflexible and brittle. So they have no method of injecting new breeding stock into their demographics. Guest workers will only get you so far. They tend to take their learned skills and wealth away when they eventually leave. They can hold that off a while by continued technological advancement to increase their populations productivity, but that is a curve of diminishing return. They will continue to fade.
I’m not sure I see Germany in quite the same position. Yes, they are facing demographic collapse, but I don’t think they have the cultural racism that Japan has. They can re-inflate themselves with immigration. They may not like it, but it’s not a deal breaker for them. They can pull in reasonably educated stock from all over EU and elsewhere and indoctrinate them and run with it. There are a lot of people who wouldn’t mind living in Germany.
Russia does have problems, even worse than Japan. They are also very closed, which doesn’t matter, because who would want to immigrate to that shhthole anyway. Well, maybe North Koreans. ;)
China was someone of a shock to me. I knew they had real demographic problems from the One-Child laws. I didn’t realize how bad it was. Even worse that the raw numbers is the sex imbalance. They are going to have a large population of angry young men who are never going to be able to marry and have a family. To me, that sounds reasonable. ;) To a Chinese male that is cataclysmic. In their culture that is the ultimate failure. It dishonors not only them, but their parents, and their ancestors. And they are ethnically closed like the Chinese, so marrying a Korean, or Vietnamese girl isn’t really considered and acceptable substitute. Having a large population of angry young males with no future is generally not conducive to a stable society. Throw in an economic collapse and real hunger and you have a powder keg.
I also never realized how resource poor they were and how crappy their land was for agriculture.
Russia and China are especially dangerous because they are dying cultures who may not feel they have anything else to lose.
We should feel lucky in America even with all our First World problems. We were blessed with….errrr pried from the cold dead hands of indigenous peoples...a uniquely perfect geography. We really have an embarrassment of riches. And immigration (yes it should be legal) is built into our national DNA. We can absorb anyone and eventually digest them into our culture, even though they end up adding their own diversity to our own. Believe me, I’ve eaten English food. I am so glad we traded so much culture with Mexico and appropriated their cuisine. ;)
We’ll have rough patches, but America will recover and continue to get stronger if we don’t screw it up from the inside.
I had a poli-sci prof back in the early 2000s who predicted the collapse of China by 2040 do the reasons of inequality of wealth distribution between the coastal provinces and the interior coupled with their demographic imbalance. Generally speaking when a nation has a surplus of fighting aged men two things happen. Either civil war or a foreign war. Well China being China I guess you can’t rule out wholesale liquidations as a third option. I think thats a bit much even for the CCP. Personally, I am not bullish on the USA. The country is stratified to the point I doubt it could weather a long economic hiccup. People now tend to view politics through a prism of religious zeal, like illiterate peasants in the Middle Ages regarding religion. No matter what the other side does is bad, yet they have little understanding of policy and it’s potential effects. As heterogeneous as the US is, the term Nation State is starting to become inapplicable. Also, as a historical rule, multi-cultural entities tend to implode due to internal problems. That precedent is almost a historical truth dawning back to beginning of civilization. As long as the US has its so called “bread and circuses” buffets and football, we ought to be ok. If for some reason they disappear, the ensuing chitshow will be epic.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: CptTrips on January 23, 2023, 02:01:33 PM
I didn't mean Zeihan, I was actually referring to some of the replies regarding cannabis... :D
Heh. Well, we could go on that topic for days. I could blanket the forum with data. In the end, I've found people either already get it, or they are incapable of getting it, or they get it but won't admit it because they think it is some kind of culture war topic.
Not to say there are no negatives to cannabis at some dosage and use levels. I just say that is the adults right to weigh and decide for themselves. You can say the same for cheeseburgers, pizza, sugary soda, sky diving, riding a motorcycle. Or water. Go three days without water and you die. Drink 6l of water in an hour and you die. Do we make water illegal? It’s more dangerous than cannabis.
The best way I’ve found to explain it to Normies is imagine you woke up tomorrow in a weird Black Mirror alternate reality.
In this nightmarish world, wine and hard distilled liquors are perfectly legal, but if you drink beer, that is illegal. You can get puking drunk on scotch and that is fine, but if you try kicking back on your couch with a cold beer to watch a game, you risk being put into a cage, losing your job and having your childrens custody taken from you.
You could have bottles of vodka lying all over the floor, but if you had a cold 6-pack in the fridge your risk black nija suited paramilitary cops busting down your door, shooting first and asking questions later in no-knock raids.
It doesn’t matter if you were brewing your own beer, on your own property, for your own consumption, in the privacy of your own home. If they find out, they will try and use the full weight of the legal system to try and destroy your life.
They’ll tell you that you don’t need beer. You can just drink wine and scotch. It doesn’t matter if you don’t like wine or scotch and prefer beer, they know what’s best for you. It doesn’t matter if you try and explain to them that beer has a lower alcohol and thus is inherently safer, they know what’s best for you. It doesn’t matter if you explain to them you don’t care if they prefer scotch, I’ll even pour it for you. All I ask is that they F.off let me enjoy my beer if that is what I prefer. But they know what’s best for you.
Imagine what a strange, irrational, dangerous, oppressive “alternate” reality that would be.
Title: Re: Zeihan on Rogan
Post by: Nefarious on January 23, 2023, 03:20:14 PM