Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: NCLawman on September 06, 2006, 07:53:35 AM
-
I have, as of late, heard or rather read on country channel an increasing amount of moaning about "how the game has gone downhill" or "game play has gone to crap in the last year." or "this game sucks with all the {insert } (noobs, hoards, kids, ho-ers, no-talent-skilless dweebs, spittards, L-Gay drivers, Run-90s, tool-shedders, vulchers, cherry pickers, etc...)" (If I left one of your choices out, I do apologize.)
These complaints seem to come from players who played, left, and are now back again. They complain about the influx of "noobs" and all the "skilless dweebs" in the game.
To those complaints, I have a few answers....
1. If the game isn't fun for you anymore, please feel free NOT to play. It is a game and is meant to be fun. If it ISN'T fun, then you are not benefiting from the point of the game - RECREATION. (Please don't read into this a stab at anyone, nor should you read into it that I am demanding anyone to leave. I am merely pointing out that games are meant to be fun, if this game is not fun for you, then find one that is. )
2. If you feel that the game skill has dropped because new people have joined, then take those new people under your wing and teach them the skills you have mastered. They would most likely appreciate the help and your knowledge of the game is very valuable to the community. Your ability to share what you have learned might even bring the "skill level" back to what you remember it to be.
3. Lastly, I ask you to remember that you were "new" once. It may have been 2, 10, or 15 years ago; but nonetheless, you had to learn the game at some point. But, look at you now. You have achieved a mastery of the ACMs and are a valued member of your team/squad/country. The "noobs" have to learn and they rely on your knowledge to get them where they need to be.
To conclude... If you are not willing to take part in raising the community and the game is not fun, then why are you back? (Again, not a stab at anyone, just a simple question that some may want to ask themselves.)
<> To all you AH players, veterans, rookies, and noobs alike. :aok
-
I got a better idea...
How bout we put a FT in every map?
How bout we move most of the fields closer in the really bad maps so that they more resemble Festers ma?
The whorde can then continue to kill outhouses and maybe get the occasional player taking off or landing or to slow to make it back with 20 guys on him and....
The rest of us can just have the opportunity to have fun without em. They can either learn to play or continue whith whordeing... their choice... just like it was ours when we started.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
Originally posted by NCLawman
1. If the game isn't fun for you anymore, please feel free NOT to play. It is a game and is meant to be fun. If it ISN'T fun, then you are not benefiting from the point of the game - RECREATION. (Please don't read into this a stab at anyone, nor should you read into it that I am demanding anyone to leave. I am merely pointing out that games are meant to be fun, if this game is not fun for you, then find one that is. )
It's been proven to no end some are not having fun because the majority have not joined thier cause, and they have resorted to daily (9.7 some-odd posts per day) rants, of which they may as well save the clickety-clack, and just copy-and-paste.
-
2. If you feel that the game skill has dropped because new people have joined, then take those new people under your wing and teach them the skills you have mastered.
Thats a lot of people to take under your wing as you put it.The game was fun at one time but has now turned into a mess.All everyone is worried about is getting kills and getting thier name up in lights.The majority do not even care about ACM they just get in a La-7 or a Spit-16 and HO every one they see because they really don't know any better.
I believe that all of the poor gameplay falls on the Aces High Training staff.When a new Cadet see's the commercial and gets the game they find thier way into the main Arena and all they hear is "go to the TA there is someone in there that will help you" and they go into the TA to find no one available and must learn from regular players if someone will show them.This is not a personal attack on the Aces High Training staff although they will take it as that, it is a call for others to help these new cadets.The number of new cadets Vs. AH Trainers is very high and they don't have the time to stay in the TA all day and night to help them.
The one funny thing i have noticed in the MA now though is good ol Storch.Finally they get people to show up in the AvA to play and storch and his girlfriends run them all back out with thier "excellant & fair gameplay" on top of thier huge hospitality.Now you see him trying to taunt others in the MA and it is so frickin funny.About 3 weeks or so ago we were taking a field and storch upped from it HO'ing everyone(even 1 on 1) and complaining that none of us would fight him even though we were trying to capture the field, it made me think he doesn't even know what field capture is.
-
Originally posted by thndregg
It's been proven to no end some are not having fun because the majority have not joined thier cause, and they have resorted to daily (9.7 some-odd posts per day) rants, of which they may as well save the clickety-clack, and just copy-and-paste.
lol, which are replied to in the same manner, 9.7 some-odd posts per day. same replies as well. lets at least be fair.
-
LOLH Pluck.
It's been proven to no end some are not having fun because the majority have not joined thier cause, and they have resorted to daily (9.7 some-odd posts per day) rants, of which they may as well save the clickety-clack, and just copy-and-paste.
Nice twisting- NOT and completely wrong as usual. You think it is because the majority have not joined our cause, WRONG. Our cause is only to be able to log in at any time and jump in a Fighter Town or have maps that allow great fights and furballs. Much like you are allowed to log in at any time and take undefended bases till you fall asleep at the stick. :Aok
-
Originally posted by mars01
LOLH Pluck.
Nice twisting- NOT and completely wrong as usual. You think it is because the majority have not joined our cause, WRONG. Our cause is only to be able to log in at any time and jump in a Fighter Town or have maps that allow great fights and furballs. Much like you are allowed to log in at any time and take undefended bases till you fall asleep at the stick. :Aok
Nice Hijack
-
Compared to the basic premise of your post, which is "if you're not having fun, do these things that I think you should, and the game will be fun again.", Mars' reply of "how about we have fun our way", isn't really much of a hijack.
-
All the people whining about "the noobs have ruined the game, etc., reminds me of my job as a high school teacher listening to the kids comment about the "stupid freshmen!" - forgetting that just one year ago they were freshmen as well. How quickly we forget. . . .
-
Summer is ending, no worries. All the kiddies are going back to school. Happens every year.
By the way, you can't force "proper" game play on people. Either they are committed to learning how to be good at the game, or they are not. The ones that are not, won't be here long. Even if they are committed, they may not settle on "your" version of "proper" game play.
There are volumes of help files for the game from HTC, and from players that took the time to make them. There are players (Trainers included, they are players after all) in the TA probably 18 hours a day that are willing to help anyone that asks. Contact info for a trainer is put in your face as soon as you log into the TA.
Speaking only for myself here, but if it is too much effort for someone to avail themselves of the ways to get help that's provided, then it would probably be a waste of my time to have helped anyways. Almost everything one needs to know can be found at Welcome to Aces High help (http://www.flyaceshigh.com/ahhelp/index.html), netaces.org (http://www.netaces.org), DokGonzo's Fighter comparisons (http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php), and Soda's Aircraft evaluations (http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/models.htm). Players, official Trainer or not, are not obligated to be a live help line for those who are too lazy to look at the mass of information already avalible to them.
Yes, people need oriented. They sometimes need help understanding things beyond looking at "help files". Sometimes they need to know something specific without having to read a whole book to find it. But guess what? This is a complex sim. It takes a little bit of effort to learn. If a person isn't willing to put forth a little effort, then its probably a waste of time for the person who tries to help them.
-
In my opinion gameplay has gone more or less steadily downhill since the TV ads began. It's an attitude that mainly comes from having played before things changed, better/worse is purely subjective.
It's similar to the "it was better in beta" phenomenon.
Start with a small community, where new players come fairly slowly and are surrounded by experienced players who have their own accepted way of doing things. Then something changes, there's a massive influx of new players, and suddenly instead of learning from the experienced players, the new players start learning from the noobs. Previously accepted conventions and attitudes dissapear from the new batch of players.
Usually the result is that the new players play the game as it's mechanics dictate, where the old players tend to play more the way the game was intended to be played.
-
not all of the noobs are that way though.
-
NCLawman - great post; sound advice :aok
-
I have fun......
-
I have fun too. Land kills when I get it right. Die when I screw up. The high decible voices are annoying but there is a cure for that(squelch). Sure there are things and people that make me angry and thats when I have to remind myself to use my experences in the game to overcome the anger and kill the SOB next time. I guess I just dont understand the complaining of downgraded game play. As the old saying goes: All is fair in love and war.:D
-
There are a few who play that act like the kid who took his ball and went home. Too late for them, they are ruined. There are others who play a certain way and would like it if everyone else played the same way with the same ride types. They need to grin and bare it. There are the types who will never be really good at this but enjoy themselves at what ever level they are. And you have the player that avoids an even fight and takes advantage of the situation and picks, runs what have you.
You throw all these guys into one arena and someone is gonna complain. Play the game your way..shut up, and have fun, or atleast put up with your frustration and allow others to have fun.
-
Good way to put it Filth. I totaly agree!
-
I don't think we want everyone to play the way we play.
We want maps that allow us to play the way we like with the large number of like minded players who are either cutting down their playing time or leaving due to the gameplay.
I believe that the solution to gameplay that is so bad for a large portion of the group would be to simply put the fields closer together in all the maps a la festers ma.
The furballers would not be upset if the whorde types and terminaly clumsy and timid continued to pretend that taking fields was "fun"... course we would still make fun of em but...
How can anyone resist?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
How can game play be so bad as to cut down logged time or (gasp) leave forever? I neeeed my AH hit when I Neeeed it!!!!!!!
-
I also could not handle the decline in game play so......I quit. And maybe if more did it would change! Or TOD would get expidited
ManeDog
-
How can game play be so bad as to cut down logged time or (gasp) leave forever? I neeeed my AH hit when I Neeeed it!!!!!!!
When the type of game you log in for is a rarity, replaced by unopposed potatods that won't fight each other, timid cherry pickers that wont fight you unless you are already fighting one or more people or just plain crapy maps.
When you start looking for the fast paced, SA straining, constantly changing, all out fighting of small or large closely matched numbered groups, you will start to see what many are talking about and why many vets that have gotten past the easy mode gameplay "Tactics" of the current MA have just plain upped and quit the game until it offers equal chance of decent fights as it does every other game play style.
Imagine, you log in hoping for your fix and find out it is no longer offered and joining the lemmings wont cut it...
-
yep.. we are the old school excietment junkies... The kind of gameplay we have now looks really bad in comparrison.
Those of us who are optimistic log on looking for those areas where that kind of fight is going on... some just give up.
It would be better for everyone I think if there were areas where it was allways possible to get into that kind of fight.
And.... One whorde makes a wrong....two whordes can make a right. Two whordes meeting each other is called a furball.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
Originally posted by mars01
When the type of game you log in for is a rarity, replaced by unopposed potatods that won't fight each other, timid cherry pickers that wont fight you unless you are already fighting one or more people or just plain crapy maps.
When you start looking for the fast paced, SA straining, constantly changing, all out fighting of small or large closely matched numbered groups, you will start to see what many are talking about and why many vets that have gotten past the easy mode gameplay "Tactics" of the current MA have just plain upped and quit the game until it offers equal chance of decent fights as it does every other game play style.
Imagine, you log in hoping for your fix and find out it is no longer offered and joining the lemmings wont cut it...
Cant say I have had that problem. Maybe I have lower standards.<(not meant as a slam)
-
Originally posted by ManeDog
I also could not handle the decline in game play so......I quit. And maybe if more did it would change! Or TOD would get expidited
ManeDog
It's all right ManeDog, 5 noobs just signed up to take your place. :t
-
Originally posted by Sweet2th
.....snip.....
I believe that all of the poor gameplay falls on the Aces High Training staff.......This is not a personal attack on the Aces High Training staff although they will take it as that, it is a call for others to help these new cadets......
Gotta disagree.
You forget the first rule of being a guy -- never ask for directions -- applies to AH2. The trainers can only help the people who ask for it, and to be honest 95% of what they deal with is at the "How do I take off?" level.
Once we get in the air, nearly everyone wants to just do it themselves...and that means the average AH player finds a skill level that he's personally comfortable with, then stays there.
Getting to be a true experten is entirely in the hands of the player, not the Training Staff. As soon as a player wants it, the teaching is there for as long as he wants it.
It takes motivation to get to be good, and that's 100% up to the individual. The "problem" comes not from the training staff, not from the commercials, not from the kill announcements or the capture models. Gameplay is what it is because the majority of the players dont want to make it better...they're comfortable with where they are.
-
Ahh yes, the team work approach!!!:aok
-
Originally posted by Kuhn
Ahh yes, the team work approach!!!:aok
Lol...
But dont get me wrong..once someone wants help, the community answers the call with as much help and training as they can handle. The team exists, and will pull together to help out any way it can.
BUT the team cant force someone to get better. That has always been up to the individual, because we all know "You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink"!
-
Could more of the problems be handled by better team work. I do hear and see more griping than planning on counter measures to atleast confront the problem.
-
Originally posted by Kuhn
Could more of the problems be handled by better team work. I do hear and see more griping than planning on counter measures to atleast confront the problem.
Not really...because, again, the "problem" depends on what people want to do. Many times I've offered to help, or to teach a maneuver, with very little interest in response.
I dont care how good the support team is, it cant do anything for someone who wants to be left alone to do it his own way.
-
I cant argue that!
-
If the noobs dont want help, killem. So whats the problem again?
-
Originally posted by Simaril
Not really...because, again, the "problem" depends on what people want to do. Many times I've offered to help, or to teach a maneuver, with very little interest in response.
I dont care how good the support team is, it cant do anything for someone who wants to be left alone to do it his own way.
speaking of.... bout time for another training session sir :D
-
I've played for about 5 years, i don't think the gameplay has changed much at all. There has always been hording since i've been playing.
I think simaril has a point about training. Before i had my first sortie i went to lots of sites and read up all about tactics, manouvers etc. Why? because i wanted to learn and get good. My only previous experience experience was a couple of weeks flying wb2 offline. My first couple of sorties i crashed on take-off, so i read up on basic flying on the net and found out what stalling is. Once i achieved that i couldn't hit anything, i read up some tips on gunnery- to my surprise 2km is too far out to hit anyone. From there on i just kept searching for sites to help me kill people. I think the next thing i read was how to merge.
If there is little desire or motivation a person wont improve with or without trainers in MA.
-
Good, bad or indifferent and it matters not to me, but I think the demise of Air Warrior changed the game more than anything ever has. But no matter how much things change, there's nothing new under the sun.
-
Originally posted by aztec
Good, bad or indifferent and it matters not to me, but I think the demise of Air Warrior changed the game more than anything ever has. But no matter how much things change, there's nothing new under the sun.
yup
-
I wish this game was more like Quake!:( :p
-
I've been playing for three months and been having a blast....sorry for ruining the game by being a noob. Next time you shoot me down think to yourself....Yeah I got him, he won't be bothering anybody again.....(two seconds later voice on vox) "One uppin from the hanger". I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna be bothered because somebody misses the old days, I try to play with a good attitude and a general sence of respect for other players(friend and foe) ....I have nothing to base gameplay on because I'm so new, but there are things that bother me at times(like people capping a field with out even attempting to take the town down in some sort of a kill scoring vulch fest), but there is always somewhere else to go if I don't like what's going on at any given field. The fact is I have fun, nobody really offered much training when I started, but I've learned alot flying with really cool people. Yes I fly in giant bish horde missions BECAUSE IT'S FUN! I defend bases from giant rook/knight hordes BECAUSE IT'S FUN! Mostly I just fly around looking for a good even fight because that's what I like to do the most. I fly spit16's BECAUSE IT'S FUN. I fly f6f's, tbm's, sbd's all the time because I love aircraft carriers and IT'S FUN. My only real complaint is when I find a good 1 on 1 turn fight with an equal or better player there is always an LA-7 that comes in and kills me...those things are like annoying, really fast, meat bees...and I hate meat bees. So to sum up my idiotic responce to a thoughtful post made by a concerned MA pilot.....Hmmm I got nothin....oh yeah I'm having fun.
-
Originally posted by lagger86
...Mostly I just fly around looking for a good even fight because that's what I like to do the most. ...My only real complaint is when I find a good 1 on 1 turn fight with an equal or better player there is always an LA-7 that comes in and kills me...those things are like annoying, really fast, meat bees...and I hate meat bees.
And with that, you no longer qualify as a n00b....Congratulations for reaching Jr. Fuballer status.
-
Originally posted by lagger86
I've been playing for three months and been having a blast....sorry for ruining the game by being a noob. Next time you shoot me down think to yourself....Yeah I got him, he won't be bothering anybody again.....(two seconds later voice on vox) "One uppin from the hanger". I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna be bothered because somebody misses the old days, I try to play with a good attitude and a general sence of respect for other players(friend and foe) ....I have nothing to base gameplay on because I'm so new, but there are things that bother me at times(like people capping a field with out even attempting to take the town down in some sort of a kill scoring vulch fest), but there is always somewhere else to go if I don't like what's going on at any given field. The fact is I have fun, nobody really offered much training when I started, but I've learned alot flying with really cool people. Yes I fly in giant bish horde missions BECAUSE IT'S FUN! I defend bases from giant rook/knight hordes BECAUSE IT'S FUN! Mostly I just fly around looking for a good even fight because that's what I like to do the most. I fly spit16's BECAUSE IT'S FUN. I fly f6f's, tbm's, sbd's all the time because I love aircraft carriers and IT'S FUN. My only real complaint is when I find a good 1 on 1 turn fight with an equal or better player there is always an LA-7 that comes in and kills me...those things are like annoying, really fast, meat bees...and I hate meat bees. So to sum up my idiotic responce to a thoughtful post made by a concerned MA pilot.....Hmmm I got nothin....oh yeah I'm having fun.
Very good point:D
-
Originally posted by lagger86
oh yeah I'm having fun.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Murdr can I be a junior furballer now? :D
-
Given the respective posts some of which are again stating that game play skill has overall gone down, I must ask the following question:
Is it possible that game play has, for the most part, remained the same but your (AH and AW veterans) skill has increased dramatically? In that way the game is the same, but it you that has changed. What used to be a hard fought challenge (which made the game fun) is now much easier because you not only know what signs to look for, but also how to manage the situation.
In furtherance of this point, I relate it to playing HALO (X-box or PS-2 irrelevent.) You all remember playing the game and the first time you came across the 2 "enforcers" (I think that is what they were called -- it was the big dudes with the spiked shells on their backs). The enforcers could only be killed by hitting them in the two small "soft" orange spots under the shell that only came exposed at certain movements. When you first met them, you remember how difficult and frustrating it was to go up against 2 of them and it seemed no matter what you did or how hard you tried those two buggers kicked your butt handedly regardless of the weapon you had. But after you had played a while and learned the "tricks" and what to look for, you started pounding them no different from the little elf looking dudes. In fact, after a little while longer you even learned how to run up on the enforcers and pound them in the head with the rifle butt to kill them. What was once so very difficult soon became easy and non-challenging -- because you know what to look for and how to defeat it. So I ask you... what changed? You or the game?
Back to AH... is it possible that now as a skilled veteran you are still facing the same quality of player you always faced? But now that you are better and know what to look for and how defeat it, the perception of the game has changed for you. What was once challenging and difficult is now more simple. Where you used to get burned in a turn fight you now know how to employ measures and counter measures. So in essence the game is perceived as less challenging and therefore less fun.
Again, please don't take this post as a stab or cut to anyone or their style of play. I am simply pointing out that there is a possibility that it isn't the game that has changed, it is the veterans perception of the game.
Just a thought. What do you think?
-
i couldnt agree with u more NCLAWMAN:aok ,ppl do need to come to the understanding they were new once also,so instead of giving noobs a hard time ,teach them, tell them to go to the TA and get training and ask questions, they too should be able to play how they want( good or bad) u try to show them the right way to play ,but it is there 15 bucks a month. so instead of calling them names and making fun off them u veterans should know by now there r gonna be ppl that dont play how u want them too, yes there is gonna be hoing ,potatods,cherry picking ,vulching,,,ETC! and there always will be. But just alittle update on those items:t
hoing= it takes 2 to ho
potatods=u fly into enemy territory that is busy,u better bring ur homey's
cherry picking=awarness( look around)
vulching=better up guns and blow them off ur runway or up from another field with ur homey;s:lol
now most everyone ive meet in AH is intelligent,u guys know this stuff ,let the new ppl have a chance to learn.
fellas , happy hunting
p.s good topic
-
the afore mentioned points are quite valid. I do not see the game as being down graded because of different fighting styles, I see that a pilot must find ways to overcome and find ways to stay alive. Quit complaining and get with the times. Adapt or fade away!
-
the afore mentioned points are quite valid. I do not see the game as being down graded because of different fighting styles, I see that a pilot must find ways to overcome and find ways to stay alive. Quit complaining and get with the times. Adapt or fade away!
-
Just got jr furballer now he gets his double post cherry poped ;)
-
Originally posted by Dichotomy
Murdr can I be a junior furballer now? :D
Ya might want to run that one past the self-proclaimed "Ruler of all that is Furball"
You might know him better by his other title...."Public Relations Officer for the BK's" :D
-
Originally posted by Murdr
Ya might want to run that one past the self-proclaimed "Ruler of all that is Furball"
You might know him better by his other title...."Public Relations Officer for the BK's" :D
:lol :lol
-
ya know... there are two different subjects not just one.
You may be getting them confused because they both involve a lot of the new guys.
one subject is a lack of skill do to inexperiance. this is not a problem to me... or not much. In a furball I get killed by some of the least experianced guys from time to time when my mediocre SA is overwhelmed. the fact that they are there is GOOD and I don't mind killing or being killed by em... it is slightly annoying if they allways take the HO but that is no big deal and they will learn to moderate that.
the second part is.... gameplay. This is much more important and what most of the "vets" are complaining about. Many newbs are not trying to learn but simply join the whorde and....safety in numbers... they never even try to get better.... substituting "taking bases" for air combat. Huge squads of em form... they (these "squads")will take anyone who will do what he is told and become a cog.
Gameplay is, in my opinion, not even the fault of the newbie. He is timid not because he isn't good or wants to get better... I don't think people have changed over the years... he is timid cause he has no choice.
with the fields so far apart... a newbie quickly learns that he is dead meat going out looking for a fight on his own... he rarely finds a furball where he stands a chance of learning some fighting skills.
FT is a good example of gameplay that works... that allows people to have fun and get good tho... lots of newbies go there and die but... they have a good time and they learn more in an hour than they learn in 400 bop "missunz".
Closer fields would help gameplay..... better gameplay would be better for everyone.
Trainers and other players can teach some moves but no one can teach the SA you need in the arena. You only learn that by doing it. If you want to get your feet wet in some real excietment... leave the Whorde... go to FT and mix it up.... die and kill... learn.... heck... ask to join someones plane who IS doing it if you can't leave the potatod womb just yet...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
ya know... there are two different subjects not just one.
You may be getting them confused because they both involve a lot of the new guys.
one subject is a lack of skill do to inexperiance. this is not a problem to me... or not much. In a furball I get killed by some of the least experianced guys from time to time when my mediocre SA is overwhelmed. the fact that they are there is GOOD and I don't mind killing or being killed by em... it is slightly annoying if they allways take the HO but that is no big deal and they will learn to moderate that.
the second part is.... gameplay. This is much more important and what most of the "vets" are complaining about. Many newbs are not trying to learn but simply join the whorde and....safety in numbers... they never even try to get better.... substituting "taking bases" for air combat. Huge squads of em form... they (these "squads")will take anyone who will do what he is told and become a cog.
Gameplay is, in my opinion, not even the fault of the newbie. He is timid not because he isn't good or wants to get better... I don't think people have changed over the years... he is timid cause he has no choice.
with the fields so far apart... a newbie quickly learns that he is dead meat going out looking for a fight on his own... he rarely finds a furball where he stands a chance of learning some fighting skills.
FT is a good example of gameplay that works... that allows people to have fun and get good tho... lots of newbies go there and die but... they have a good time and they learn more in an hour than they learn in 400 bop "missunz".
Closer fields would help gameplay..... better gameplay would be better for everyone.
Trainers and other players can teach some moves but no one can teach the SA you need in the arena. You only learn that by doing it. If you want to get your feet wet in some real excietment... leave the Whorde... go to FT and mix it up.... die and kill... learn.... heck... ask to join someones plane who IS doing it if you can't leave the potatod womb just yet...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
[SIZE=10]BINGO![/SIZE]
Newbs are not bad, vets in unopposed potatods are! :aok
-
The game play is the way it is not so much because of lack of training of noobs, but because HT wants the rules set the way they are and the majority who play the game are willing to accept those rules or else they quit.
If HT wanted closer fields or game play changed he would have done it years ago. Instead, he is catering to a new generation of players to prolong the existence of HTC for years to come while the older players just fade away.
Bottom line......make your own map for approval by HT, deal with life in AH as it is, or quit and find another game to play.
-
Hmm the fields have always been the same distances apart from day 1 as they are now.
And the game has not realy changed, laz and mars have. Quite frankly they are flowing a very classic player pattern.
Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, Figure out new and chalanging things to do to gether, still having fun.
Step 4. Few friends leave, play less, still have fun on ocation.
Step 5. Rembers the fun they used to have, log on for that fun, but can't seem to get that all encompasing, time passes by hours and feels like minets feeling anymore. But they still hold out hope for that feeling.
Step 6. Feeling just dons't realy come back, Start blaming everyone else and the game for them not having that feeling any more.
Step 7. Become vocal about yourself not having fun. Try to persuade everone else that you not having fun is all there fault.
I have seen this cycle repeated over and over with people. Most people tend to retire at 5. And only a rair few ever make it to step 7.
What I have never figured out, is how HTC should deal with the step 7 player. Let them complain, or take action and just end there suffering.
HiTech
-
Originally posted by hitech
What I have never figured out, is how HTC should deal with the step 7 player. Let them complain, or take action and just end there suffering.
HiTech
With more frequent game updates.
Its a win win situation.
-
Hmm the fields have always been the same distances apart from day 1 as they are now.
You may have specified a min/max distance between fields from day 1, but not all maps are equal and not all maps have the same distances between fields.
What I have never figured out, is how HTC should deal with the step 7 player. Let them complain, or take action and just end there suffering.
What do you mean by "action" ?
-
FSO and snapshots/ Scenarios are really good, I use the MA for messing around in, the real stuff ( for me anyways) happens in FSO etc.
-
Is there no way to counter a hoard? Yes there is.
I have seen it done and scored big!
Do yall think they complain because theyre boared?
FSO is great !!!
-
What he means by action, is should he terminate their accounts and PNG them for life.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, Figure out new and chalanging things to do to gether, still having fun.
Step 4. Few friends leave, play less, still have fun on ocation.
Step 6. Feeling just dons't realy come back, Start blaming everyone else and the game for them not having that feeling any more.
Step 7. Become vocal about yourself not having fun. Try to persuade everone else that you not having fun is all there fault.
Well HTC you can't be more incorrect about me and you are WRONG. You base your above steps on the fact that the challenge is gone and that is why I am sour. But in all honesty, when I started this game furballs were the norm and Air to Air combat was the focus. Maybe that wasn’t your intention but that is what I saw. Furballs are no longer the norm and the game play style I and many of us enjoyed is becoming a thing of the past.
You can keep your head in the sand a pretend that is not the case and throw the likes of myself and Laz and others into the crusty old vet bucket, but you will still be wrong and still be killing a user base that wants to play your game.
As we have said before, make it so furballs exist by design rather than by chance and you will never hear a bad word on the subject from me again. Fighter Town maps have given many of us a place to play again, but you don't seem to recognize that.
Maybe you have been away from the MA too long and that is understandable with betting the company on CT. But honestly you are wrong when it comes to me and Laz and many of the other loyal vets that you have lost for the same reasons.
I respect you and your game, if you want censorship and mindless automatons playing your game, then fine.
If you think mindless potatods running away from each other and taking undefended bases are good for the game then fine, say so and I will leave that alone.
Tell me you have abandoned the Air to Air combat game I signed up for 4 years ago and I will leave this alone.
-
Originally posted by hitech
And the game has not realy changed, laz and mars have. Quite frankly they are flowing a very classic player pattern.
I don't remember seeing 10+ guys attacking an undefended base and one sector away the other team doing the exact same thing, with such frequency as I see today.
It has been worse in the past, most notably with the fuel and fighter hanger destruction... but now, it is more player driven than game mechanic driven.
What can HTC do? I'm not sure what HTC can do, like I said, its player driven timidness... aside from disabling scores and disabling any rewards for the reset (and I can imagine the whines from that), there is no answer.
I feel players need to make the change themselves (through trainers and vets setting a good example), but it would be nice if HTC could at least acknowledge the issue, even if they can't fix it.
-
Yes the attacking of undefended bases is stupid when there is one to defend. I do not agree with that style of play because it booring. Is there no way to create furballs or more air to air combat without changing the rules or layout of the game? What happened to the days of chivalry when veteren pilots would call one out for a one on one battle. There has to be a way for that to work.
-
It's not so much the one on one battles kuhn as much as just large opposing groups fighting for the sake of the fight.
Circa the time I joined furballing was the rule and 90% of the community were there for the Air to Air combat. The strat and base taking was a small portion of the game and in it's infancy.
As land grab has become the main focus of the MA, furballing has been left to chance and as the dynamic of land grab has shifted from small teams capturing fields to large unopposed potatods rolling undefended bases furballing had become almost non existant.
Now maps like FesterMA have mitigated the impact of the whordes by moving bases closer together. Maps with Fighter Towns have allowed those that want to potatod to potatod and those that want to fight to fight and as I see it a win win for everyone.
-
I wish more players would use the AVA. When the numbers are up its alot like what your saying Mars.
-
mars:
Step 8. Denial.
-
Well HT it's your game and you can continue to be wrong if you want. It's only going to hurt your game in the long run. It's your bread and butter not mine.
The way I see it, it's denial on your part. If I were the only one, then you could be right. But when I look back at the guys you've lost since I have been around, because of game play, it becomes quite obvious to me. And there are a lot of older vets that can attest to it as well.
Like I said, I love your game when I can log in and furball, I still get that feeling. It's when gameplay blows to the point that furballs don't exist and fighting is sparse that it bothers me.
Yeah kuhn,
I agree, but most of the time I log in there isn't anyone in there. So I end up with the MA. If the map blows or the players on the map are hiding from one another I log.:(
-
Maps with Fighter Towns have allowed those that want to potatod to potatod and those that want to fight to fight and as I see it a win win for everyone.
Unless FT is completely taken over by one country ... and from what I just read ... the Rooktards just took all of FT ... so Bish and Knights are out of luck.
For those who are new, what Mars is talking about (I have explained this in another thread) is back when we joined Aces High the fights were generated by large squads trying to take bases and reciprocal large squads trying to stop them from taking bases.
We (Mars and I) flew with the MAW (3 squads x 32 pilots) and when we attacked a base ... it was the AKs (very large squad), along with other squads, that came to meet us head on and prevent the capture ... and vice-a-versa.
The fights went on for hours over just 1 base. Neither the MAW or the AKs gave up at the first sign of resistence and moved on to some un-defended base ... they usually kept banging heads until the base was taken.
That is the crook in Mars' craw ... we have HUGE squads/hordes (in all countries) taking UN-DEFENDED bases ... and hardly do they ever meet. Heaven forbid that they actually have to FIGHT and maybe die for their spoils.
Today ... once there is some sort of decent resistance to their attack ... they pick up their toys and look for another UN-DEFENDED base.
The path of least resistance is the way of AH now ... it was not that way just a few years ago ... and this is why gameplay has suffered or is suffering.
-
Today ... once there is some sort of decent resistance to their attack ... they pick up their toys and look for another UN-DEFENDED base.
Exactly
The path of least resistance is the way of AH now ... it was not that way just a few years ago ... and this is why gameplay has suffered or is suffering.
Was that about the same time all the commercials started getting ran?
-
What do you think Hitec? This is your baby and some dont care for the way its grown. Do you just let them quit or at least try to make them happy. We all know you cant please every one. There are some valid points here. has the MA become what you invisioned or did you expect some thing else. (Growing pains suck dont they).:)
-
But now that you are better and know what to look for and how defeat it, the perception of the game has changed for you. What was once challenging and difficult is now more simple. Where you used to get burned in a turn fight you now know how to employ measures and counter measures. So in essence the game is perceived as less challenging and therefore less fun.
That and the majority of players now a days want to take the easiest road to get themselves a kill.
The game play has changed drastically.a lot of these Vets that played AW knew all of the ACM's and were already at a set skill level when AH started up, but yet some of them are not here anymore for the very reason's described.
-
Was that about the same time all the commercials started getting ran?
I don't attribute it to the influx of new people. New people are good. What I do attribute it to is the loss of the fighter community at large.
Now that the community has purged many of the old vets that were here for the fight, all you have left are the base capture guys and that mentality. It's not about Air to Air combat tactics it's about what is the easiest way to take a base tactics. So when the new guys get here that becomes their focus and Air to Air takes a back seat or is a thorn the base capture guys side that they have to put up with.
-
But now that you are better and know what to look for and how defeat it, the perception of the game has changed for you. What was once challenging and difficult is now more simple. Where you used to get burned in a turn fight you now know how to employ measures and counter measures. So in essence the game is perceived as less challenging and therefore less fun.
This is also incorrect, in a lot of ways. Mainly because Air to Air combat isn't just move, counter move. It's dynamic, it's very at the moment. It's being able to know the airplane you up against, recognize the move you opponent is throwing at you, counter it and come up with a move to gain the upper hand. This goes on till your dead and all has to be taken into accord with your environment.
It's something that even tho you may know all the moves you can still get beat. That is what sets an Air to Air combat game apart from all other games. Even when you know everything you still have to face others that know every thing and the fights rise to another level. The fights get better when the community gets better and thus the game gets better.
The problem isn't that people are getting too good to enjoy the game, the problem is that this kind of game is a rarity in the MA.
-
There is no doubt that this game has changed significantly from when it first came out of beta. The number of players has quintupled, the number of fields quadrupled, the number of planes and vehicles doubled... and we are somehow to believe that the game has remained exactly the same despite such enormous growth in the player base and in the basic game itself? We've seen the introduction of perk points and side-balancing mechanisms because the game never changed?
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that change has been bad. However, if you keep the rules of basketball the same -- the size of the court, the three second rule, all of it -- but increase the number of players on one team from 5 to 20, the game itself fundamentally changes. If you increase the size of the court to accomodate this increase in players, the game fundamentally changes again even if everything else remains the same.
-- Todd/Leviathn
-
Yep... I could be way off but I think that if I had never played dos AW and then dos WB and then AH1...
I think that if I were a newbie starting out here I would not like the gameplay for the same reasons.
When AH was starting I came here from WB... there was an "odd" flight model here at the time.... every plane turned at what was, for all practical purposes... the same rate.
How that affected gameplay was that everyone went into a different direction avoiding everyone else and only attacked when they could be sure that they either didn't have to turn and could continue at full speed or... had an advantage and no one else was around so they could kill and then get back up in their perch...
HT changed the flight models and the gameplay drasticaly changed...
I had allready reached a level of skill that, mediocre as it was... was a peak for me... I did not become dissatisfied because of lack of challenge... I became dissatisfied because of poor gameplay... when the changes were made my interest came back.
I don't get bored with furballs or good simulated air combat.
I do realize that there is a minimum and a maximum distance for fields to be apart from each other. Some have most fields at the maximum and some, like festers, have a whole lot of useful fields at the minumum.
I think that everyone sees that gameplay is different on these various maps.
my contention is that gameplay suffers at the maps with maximum settings and gameplay benifiets at the map/areas with a lot of fields at minimum distances.
I believe that maximum distances allmost force newbies to the whorde.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
Originally posted by mars01
It's being able to know the airplane you up against, recognize the move you opponent is throwing at you, counter it and come up with a move to gain the upper hand. This goes on till your dead and all has to be taken into accord with your environment.
If a person doesn't have these skills and gets the snot slapped out of him 20 or 30 times he is going to play in a way that benifits himself. You may say by killing this guy over and over that you teaching him, it's the only way to learn is by dying over and over. He is probably thinking this isn't fun. And he is right. Killing somebody else is fun, getting killed, not so much. And getting killed over and over sucks.
Some guys may really want to learn this one particular method of combat and will practice and study. Others will say "Screw this!" Grab a fast cannon bird and get some success getting kills. He conciders that he is already more successful than he was trying to play the "other" way.
Others have neither the desire nor the time to invest in cartoon airplanes to get "really" good, so fly in the Horde so any lack of individual skills isn't so apparent or such a detriment to their survival.
Some, will never aquire such skills not matter how much time they are in the game so they play in a way they are comfortable with. Be it fast cannon birds, gv's, or bombers. Others like variety and are good doing some everything but don't excel in any one particular thing. But they have fun.
As far as FT being and excellent training ground, I see the same game play after a FT map as before a FT map and they play in FT the same way they play in any other horde they just don't have to climb as long. Same amount of Mano y Mano combat too.
-
Originally posted by mars01
...Circa the time I joined furballing was the rule and 90% of the community were there for the Air to Air combat. The strat and base taking was a small portion of the game and in it's infancy....
The very first mission I joined after I was told what they were was a Rocstar mission. To say he didn't run a well oiled mission is crazy. Some nights we would take 10+ bases against defenders, not just milkrunning it.
You know they say the closer you hit the mark the louder the reaction ;)
:aok
-
Originally posted by Lye-El
If a person doesn't have these skills and gets the snot slapped out of him 20 or 30 times he is going to play in a way that benifits himself. You may say by killing this guy over and over that you teaching him, it's the only way to learn is by dying over and over. He is probably thinking this isn't fun. And he is right. Killing somebody else is fun, getting killed, not so much. And getting killed over and over sucks.
Isn't this how we all learned? There's very little sense of accomplishment, which is a big part of "fun" in any skill game, if you don't have to first acquire the skill. People don't start out winning at blackjack, or golf, or dominos. They have to learn, and they get beaten repeatedly during the learning process. Why would anyone want to play this game if he or she could start out being as accomplished as those with more experience?
- oldman
-
If a person doesn't have these skills and gets the snot slapped out of him 20 or 30 times he is going to play in a way that benifits himself. You may say by killing this guy over and over that you teaching him, it's the only way to learn is by dying over and over. He is probably thinking this isn't fun. And he is right. Killing somebody else is fun, getting killed, not so much. And getting killed over and over sucks.
So your saying that people just want to join this game and not have to learn anything ... wow ... this explains alot of what we see.
I wanted to be an All-State hockey player the day I put skates on at the age of 4 ... but guess what ... it took ten years of cold nights, cold mornings, bruises, cuts, and a whole lot of sweat and tears to get there.
Silly me to think that how people get better at something that they are passionate about.
Mars is going on 1 year (I believe) doing aerial acrobatic competition ... I fully expect him to fully sponsored by Red Bull at the end of this year ... I mean ... its only right.
-
umm wouldn't defending against the "horde" create a furball?
and arn't there hundreds of disatisfied veterans to do that?
or is posting against the horde more effective and satisfying?
-
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
changed?
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that change has been bad. However, if you keep the rules of basketball the same -- the size of the court, the three second rule, all of it -- but increase the number of players on one team from 5 to 20, the game itself fundamentally changes. If you increase the size of the court to accomodate this increase in players, the game fundamentally changes again even if everything else remains the same.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Does that mean we can expect the court dimensions to catch up with the player size soon?
-
Anyone remember "Flying Circus"? Allid had Spads and Camels
Axis had Fokkers and Albatross. We shot the snot out of each other
and still people whined on the boards. Still; it was fun.
Now I can fly any plane made in WW2..........almost
It is still fun, I die just as often, I love airplanes:D
So meet the enemy head to head, do your best and have some freaking
fun!
That's what I pay HTC for, nothing guaranteed....... just fun
Blutik
-
Anyone remember "Flying Circus"? Allid had Spads and Camels
Axis had Fokkers and Albatross. We shot the snot out of each other
and still people whined on the boards. Still; it was fun.
Now I can fly any plane made in WW2..........almost
It is still fun, I die just as often, I love airplanes:D
So meet the enemy head to head, do your best and have some freaking
fun!
That's what I pay HTC for, nothing guaranteed....... just fun
sorry about double post:cry
-
Originally posted by FBplmmr
umm wouldn't defending against the "horde" create a furball?
and arn't there hundreds of disatisfied veterans to do that?
or is posting against the horde more effective and satisfying?
1. only if there is another horde capable of defending. but as we said, the horde doesn't fight, it goes where the other horde isn't.
2. many have left, or have joined the horde to attack undefended base
3. you like fighting 10 by yourself?
4. is it more fun defending the horde than flying in it?
do people even understand the issues before they try to weight in?
-
I understand that, according to the messageboard, the game is populated by alot of arrogant cartoon vets that cry and whine that they cant have the playground to themselves.
I understand that only they have an opinion that counts.
and yes when I am not working with my squadies I go to where the enemy dar bar looks like it will provide me with entertainment. sometimes it works out, most times not.
I also see alot of vet names on the board that are helpful and deserve respect, its just the whines that drive me nuts.
my whine -- people who HO
btw cant a "counter horde" move to defend with the same ease that the offensive horde avoids them?
-
Originally posted by FBplmmr
btw cant a "counter horde" move to defend with the same ease that the offensive horde avoids them?
yes they can, why they don't, i don't know.
we don't want the playground to ourselves. we want competition that is all. it's been said over and over, many many times, but that point is always lost. not only is it lost, it is replied to by "you want it all your way." followed by an insult, then proclaim to take the high road. just trying to advocate more competitive gameplay, that is all. some want it, some don't.
-
From WB to AH everyone who read these boards felt like they had a significant input to how the game should be designed. HiTech did the programing we contributed our experience and ideas.
I, for one, no longer feel like our input is welcome.
I suppose this is fair. I dont'know of any game where the players suggest, demand and cajole for new features. Is it unique to this BBS?
-
Let HT go on with his list and he can think about that list and then wonder where everyone went to[ insert another game title] and have left this game in the dust.
1 thing i know for sure:All good things must come to an end.
-
I still have as much fun as ever in this game and I was here when the tour numbers were single digit. The only change that effected game play for me was when some said base capture was to easy and it was so the maproom was moved to a city. Then the city got bigger ya need more ord to knock it down that means more people now called the horde.
Still the best $14.95 I spend every month. Thank you HTC
In game YOUREX
-
Sheesh guys...don't let the tempers get too short...take a pill.
Sure the game is not the same as it was, nothing ever stays the same though. Back when the MA had ~75 pilots on a busy night during prime time "gameplay" was certainly different. But when there are 5,000 active accounts LOGGING IN every tour (one must assume the active accounts number around 7,000) it is hard to say things are not better now than they were, at least from a business perspective.
And make no mistake, this is a business. While I may have preferred the small tight-knit community of A2A afficionados (where we knew each other) I have a hard time making the case that the game is dying with the subcriber-base being so large.
-
the only constant is change. this game is far from stagnant it is indeed the opposite it's quite dynamic. it may well be the model for MMOGs in the future. these guys have a good thing going and will remain so until some corporation buys them out and messes it up.
-
Yep I remember Rocstar and his missions. They were good.
Well I have to say HT I am definitely not in denial and not burnt out. Thanks for resetting donut and making FT what it should be, even if it was just for tonight.
That was the best time I have had in your game in a long time and it was all because we had a place to fight, and the fight was raging on 3 hours into the night and when I left.
The best part was the rest of the map was in play as well. So I think it is safe to say you had a lot of satisfied customers tonight. Well done! :aok
-
Mars is going on 1 year (I believe) doing aerial acrobatic competition ... I fully expect him to fully sponsored by Red Bull at the end of this year ... I mean ... its only right.
HAhahah LOLH
Man if that happened I'd come to all your cities and give you biotches a ride!!! On red bull of course :D
-
Originally posted by zorstorer
The very first mission I joined after I was told what they were was a Rocstar mission. To say he didn't run a well oiled mission is crazy. Some nights we would take 10+ bases against defenders, not just milkrunning it.
You know they say the closer you hit the mark the louder the reaction ;)
:aok
I miss that guy, he's the reason I'm bish.
-
I've probably read over 500+ posts that argue the furballer vs toolshedder thesis. Know what? Both sides are entitled to their' style of game play. The Donut map with an uncapturable Fightertown solves the problem for now.
The trick for HTC, should they wish to pursue an even balance, is to provide every map with an uncapturable FT, or the player base to create them.
my two cents
-
Great points NCLawMan, I know I do my fair share of assistance trainning.
But if I could get HT to do us all one big favor, it would be to increase the size limit of the squelch list so that I don't have to listen to the constant barage of negativity which takes away from game play & my enjoyment which is the #1 reason I'm here to begin with.
-
Or give the Perma Squelch option so that you don't have to squelch the one guy that really gets under skin every time you log on!
Back to the subject, I am a Noob. AH2 is my first fighter game experience and I have been with it for a year now. Up until about 3 months ago, the hoard was the only thing I felt confortable in......I was only worried about my score. 3 months before I discovered the hoard, bombing hangars and ruining furballs so we could "Get the field" was my way of contributing.
This phase of my "noobness" is going away, as I see the light of fighting and forgetting about my score. Maybe it is the future, maybe it is a phase, but as I am moving through "Nooby" stage, I think the rest will too.
-
Originally posted by Max
I've probably read over 500+ posts that argue the furballer vs toolshedder thesis. Know what? Both sides are entitled to their' style of game play. The Donut map with an uncapturable Fightertown solves the problem for now.
The trick for HTC, should they wish to pursue an even balance, is to provide every map with an uncapturable FT, or the player base to create them.
my two cents
Just to make it $0.04...I agree 100%...for me, the whole thing boils down to a "this game has room for everyone" kind of thing...no reason to disparage either type of gameplay...just MHO of course.
-
Well FT on this map is hardly capture proof. It would just now take more of an effort to capture them and it wouldn't surprise me if we saw it happen.
-
I think HiTech is right on with his list:aok
however in fairness i will continue to make the suggestions i have made for years now:
1. I lead base taking missions (gasp):O
2. I command the largest squad in the game (Birds of Prey):aok
3. I take bases (including the undefended ones) for one reason..country survival
How could you design a way to make it unecessary for me to play this way?
1. Limit the bases that are actually capturable...so no country can "roll" others
---- for example: each country starts with 40 bases...only 20 of which can actually change hands. map changes every three days...country with most bases at map change wins
For vets like myself (10 years from awc to here..all as a Bird of Prey) I enjoy all aspects of the game. In fact it is annoying that some nights i have to pork and capture bases so that the "chess" piece i love won't be miserable. If i knew that we couldnt get hammered but so hard...then i could play in FT and lead wingman missions, buff missions and fiter sweeps instead of base takes.
But the truth remains that people will whine about anything....spittards..lgays. ..milkrunners....pickers....(in awc we hated B-n-Zers who wouldnt turnfight). so i too say THANK YOU for a great game HiTech and gang....dont let the complainers wear you down!
-
Sorry HT, I ain't buying either. I've had puter problems and RL timesinks and haven't played much lately but not because I don't want to play.
I still get the hours = minutes feeling when the fights are good.
There is NO GAME better than this one when the fights are good. Period.
But Mars, Laz, Slap and all the others generally speak pretty well for me.
I think Max has the best suggestion. Give every map a Fightertown and design it to be hard to take and remove C-47's and M-3's from those hangars. Eliminate ord at those bases. If someone wants it, make them bring troops over a long, arduous, perilous journey. It'd still be capturable but very, very hard.
Is that asking too much? I swear that's all it would take to make me forever happy.
Well...OK...one more thing... time to add the B-25C in 345th/501st/Quitch colors. ;) He's 86 this year; clock's winding down unfortunately.
-
quote:Originally posted by Max
I've probably read over 500+ posts that argue the furballer vs toolshedder thesis. Know what? Both sides are entitled to their' style of game play. The Donut map with an uncapturable Fightertown solves the problem for now.
The trick for HTC, should they wish to pursue an even balance, is to provide every map with an uncapturable FT, or the player base to create them.
my two cents
Originally posted by Edbert1
Just to make it $0.04...I agree 100%...for me, the whole thing boils down to a "this game has room for everyone" kind of thing...no reason to disparage either type of gameplay...just MHO of course.
Just to raise it to $0.06 ... Simple fix for FT on maps...
FT capture redundent/ disabled , in relation to the the strat war ....FT status and action, independent of Strat War bases .....( Strat Horde rolls over Map..., Map rotates, Resets , what ever ..... who cares....
Bombers/ Troop Transports inbound to Kill FT ? result " Spalt!" they self destruct upon entering FT sector ...... (no need to screwup the MA Maps with 50K mountains .....pretty much same as Air Warrior FT, 3 island bases, off all by themselves .....
-
Im all for training the n00bs, but when some dweeb HOs your Emil with a Spit16, he then wont listen to you trying to tech him because he thinks since you didnt shoot in the HO, you dont know how to fly! As long as they keep killing the honest fighters, they will never listen to the honest fighters because they think they are better!
-
Originally posted by Reynolds
Im all for training the n00bs, but when some dweeb HOs your Emil with a Spit16, he then wont listen to you trying to tech him because he thinks since you didnt shoot in the HO, you dont know how to fly! As long as they keep killing the honest fighters, they will never listen to the honest fighters because they think they are better!
LOL ... it takes two to HO ... both have to present a nose-to-nose profile and both have to have a guns solution for a real HO ... if not, then its a high deflection shot where only one guy has a guns solution and the other doesn't.
I have never been shot down to an HO that I didn't actively participate in ... else I come off angle and execute a pre-merge lead turn ... and if the attempted HOer stays around, they are usually dead within 1 or 2 turns ... honestly !!!
If you are flying your Emil nose-to-nose with Spit 16s ... I wouldn't want you to teach me either.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
LOL ... it takes two to HO ... both have to present a nose-to-nose profile and both have to have a guns solution for a real HO ... if not, then its a high deflection shot where only one guy has a guns solution and the other doesn't.
I have never been shot down to an HO that I didn't actively participate in ... else I come off angle and execute a pre-merge lead turn ... and if the attempted HOer stays around, they are usually dead within 1 or 2 turns ... honestly !!!
If you are flying your Emil nose-to-nose with Spit 16s ... I wouldn't want you to teach me either.
Um, no. Some guys TRY to take you head on, and he pops up close enough, there isnt much else you can do. Any form of turn may present a shot. Or, sometimes you get dragged through a furball.
-
Originally posted by Reynolds
Um, no. Some guys TRY to take you head on, and he pops up close enough, there isnt much else you can do. Any form of turn may present a shot. Or, sometimes you get dragged through a furball.
They can TRY ? ... you can't get HOed unless you are nose-to-nose ... if your not nose-to-nose and he shoots you ... then you have been killed by a high deflection shot ... therefore they are not some dweeb HOing you.
Pops up close enough, there isnt much else you can do ? ... so your saying that you lost sight of him and the next thing you see is him in front of you blazing away at your cockpit ?
Sometimes you get dragged through a furball ? ... what does that have to do with an HO ... and if your getting dragged thru a furball ... and some guys pops you ... then your target fixated and/or your SA needs some work ... it has nothing to do with HOs.
-
apply some neg G to avoid HO, the guy on your 12 will be forced into a neg G shot if he still wants you, and will miss. A flat turn will do the job also....many movements to avoid HO...in fact you can use the HO to your advantage by starting to turn into your open 6 before he merged with you, giving you a good angle advantage for the upcoming fight.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
They can TRY ? ... you can't get HOed unless you are nose-to-nose ... if your not nose-to-nose and he shoots you ... then you have been killed by a high deflection shot ... therefore they are not some dweeb HOing you.
Pops up close enough, there isnt much else you can do ? ... so your saying that you lost sight of him and the next thing you see is him in front of you blazing away at your cockpit ?
Sometimes you get dragged through a furball ? ... what does that have to do with an HO ... and if your getting dragged thru a furball ... and some guys pops you ... then your target fixated and/or your SA needs some work ... it has nothing to do with HOs.
Losing sight... um, YES IT HAPPENS! Or, they BnZ you, Head On!
Dragged through a furball: When you go through a furball, lots will HO you. Whether or not tis the original guy, you get HOd. So, when YOU complain about HOers, whats YOUR 'excuse'?
-
I believe the point of the original post has inadvertently been shank-punted into the left side bleachers. The original point was not meant to be a stab or a cut as to any particular style of play, nor at any person specifically.
My main point was that there are a number of people grumbling that they HATE the game, and the game SUCKS, and they don't like what the game has become. Yet they continue to come back and whoop and hollar about the same thing.
So my point was... if you aren't having fun, then take up fishing, or golf. If you are having fun, then enjoy the game. Try laughing a few times, but for goodness sake, let the rest of us enjoy it too. The constant whining about how this game sucks degrades the fun, and the quality of the time spent for the rest of us.
I realize we all get frustrated. God knows I do!!!:o But there are a good number of people who get tired of hearing:
"All you guys suck" -- because a base was captured.
"Everyone one of you bishes are idiots" -- because nobody rushed to your aid defending a base.
"Why wont you Mother F---ers just quit, cause you all suck anyway" -- when you could not get someone to sacrifice their plane so you could fly your's home.
etc...... The list goes on, but I think we all get the point.
Again, I was not rationalizing or condeming any particular style of play or game action. I simply want to ask (rhetorically) if you don't have fun, why continue to play and make yourself and anyone else unhappy?
Let me reiterate that... I did not say if you don't like the actions of someone else but you enjoy the game.... I am saying If you aren't having fun and the game sucks for you, why do you play?
-
NClawman, because at one time she was young, trim and sweet, now she's old and fat and smokes like a choo choo train but she's all he's got. it's like the hound dog howlin' cus he's laying on a nail but it a'int so uncomfortable as for him to move on. comprendes, compadre?
-
:rofl
-
Originally posted by lazs2
I got a better idea...
How bout we put a FT in every map?
why cant you furballers find furballs on normal maps anymore? when it used to be fine. why does there need to be a furball town...?
Originally posted by lazs2
How bout we move most of the fields closer in the really bad maps so that they more resemble Festers ma?
because every map being the same would be boring?
Originally posted by lazs2
The whorde can then continue to kill outhouses and maybe get the occasional player taking off or landing or to slow to make it back with 20 guys on him and....
oh so playing the game as if its a war is wrong??
Originally posted by lazs2
The rest of us can just have the opportunity to have fun without em. They can either learn to play or continue whith whordeing... their choice... just like it was ours when we started.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
learn to play? you mean learn to play your game?
what is wrong with the "old" way. You guys can still furball and still take part with your country by furballing somewhere important.
With a FT we have 15-30 people per side doing nothing for there country. The old way of furballing somewhere makes you lot have fun but also contributes to the whole country.
the splitting up of the game is only going to make it worse in the long run. TT on trinity moved most of the GV'ers away from the bases, meaning less around the map. FT does the same.
Removing you guys from the front lines has made it alot less dence on numbers, and ive probably not seen a furball outside of FT at all now... where as in the old maps there would be two or 3 furballs per front line.
-
Originally posted by mars01
LOLH Pluck.
Nice twisting- NOT and completely wrong as usual. You think it is because the majority have not joined our cause, WRONG. Our cause is only to be able to log in at any time and jump in a Fighter Town or have maps that allow great fights and furballs. Much like you are allowed to log in at any time and take undefended bases till you fall asleep at the stick. :Aok
its only undefended because you are furballing in FT....
furball on the front line, and the dweebs cant take undefended bases.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
the second part is.... gameplay. This is much more important and what most of the "vets" are complaining about. Many newbs are not trying to learn but simply join the whorde and....safety in numbers... they never even try to get better.... substituting "taking bases" for air combat. Huge squads of em form... they (these "squads")will take anyone who will do what he is told and become a cog.
i think of FT as one big "whorde" also......
and substituting "taking bases" for air combat???? maybe they want to take bases? why did HTC include base capture if it wasnt supposed to happen?
and as alot of people are saying.... the game hasnt changed one bit... its you thats changed.
Ive been away for alittle over a year, *I* started not injoying the game as much as i used to.... not because the game changed, but because I got bored, and tried other things (like killing myself with drink).
since coming back the only thing that i see that has changed is the furballers want a set area to furball, and protection from being killed by others. where as before, they would happly take part in a furball on the front line.
-
Originally posted by hitech
Hmm the fields have always been the same distances apart from day 1 as they are now.
And the game has not realy changed, laz and mars have. Quite frankly they are flowing a very classic player pattern.
Step 1. New game,every thing is a challange lots of fun.
Step 2. Some chalanges over come, still a lot to learn , still having fun.
Step 3. Have gained some friends, Figure out new and chalanging things to do to gether, still having fun.
Step 4. Few friends leave, play less, still have fun on ocation.
Step 5. Rembers the fun they used to have, log on for that fun, but can't seem to get that all encompasing, time passes by hours and feels like minets feeling anymore. But they still hold out hope for that feeling.
Step 6. Feeling just dons't realy come back, Start blaming everyone else and the game for them not having that feeling any more.
Step 7. Become vocal about yourself not having fun. Try to persuade everone else that you not having fun is all there fault.
I have seen this cycle repeated over and over with people. Most people tend to retire at 5. And only a rair few ever make it to step 7.
What I have never figured out, is how HTC should deal with the step 7 player. Let them complain, or take action and just end there suffering.
HiTech
best post in thread.:aok I had the exact same "problem" with all of my games. Counter strike being one of them... i played constantly for 3 years.......upto 16hours a day..... contantly...... excellent game. Then everyone else changed.... it was rubbish, no one played the game right and i left.... fast forward a few years and i soon relised the game hadnt really change at all. Id out grown it and needed to move onto something new.
however, i left AH last april (2005) at probably step 5-6, and came back as step 2 this month.
Originally posted by hitech
mars:
Step 8. Denial.
LOL :rofl
-
Originally posted by FBplmmr
umm wouldn't defending against the "horde" create a furball?
and arn't there hundreds of disatisfied veterans to do that?
or is posting against the horde more effective and satisfying?
hit the nail right on the head. before, they used to up, and defend.... creating massive furball. Now, they either
1: moan that they need FT
2: moan on BBS about the horde.
-
Wow. Not single comment on any of my posts. Am I really losing my offensive annoying touch? :(
-
overlag... yes... defending against the whorde would be a furball.
A whorde is bad.... lousy gameplay for anyone but the rankest newbie who can't survive in anything but a whorde and doesn't want to get shot down and be embarassed or whatever. maybe good for some board game player who likes really simple board games.
Two whordes meeting each other are a different story... that is a furball.
that doesn't and can't happen tho on these maps with the fields that are spred the farthest apart that is allowed. The radar is first to be hit by the strat girls and the bar is pretty worthless over the distance needed to get to a field.
With 3/4 sector fields.... groups meet groups.. this is not some theory I have but what happens... one needs only to look at those areas on festers map.
And... while I am glad that at this point base capture seems so facinating to you... It is pretty boring stuff and you will realize it. It can be ok... if you have fought forever over the field and it then makes for two close fields to fight at when one or the other takes the field. I never care if we lose a field... only if it improves or makes worse the gameplay
Pick any night and there is some groups fighting between the fields... not even trying to take the bases.
not all the fields need be closer... just half or so... let everyone do what they want.
How many of you guys stay on line long enough to start and end the "war"? How can that be any fun? Don't you realize that it just resets the map?
The 25 perks you get is absolute recognition for what your time is worth as a strat girl... it is equal to one or two sorties in an early war plane in a furball.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
Originally posted by lazs2
The 25 perks you get is absolute recognition for what your time is worth as a strat girl...
...and there we have it...
Lazs got his 30,000 perk points by winning the war!
...errrr.....resetting the map and giving the fields back...
-
Originally posted by Overlag
what is frac3...... i been away a year..... lol
It shows in your posts ... funny how you can weigh in on things such as this topic and haven't been involved in a year.
What you remember of AH and AH gameplay ... it's not the same anymore.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
It shows in your posts ... funny how you can weigh in on things such as this topic and haven't been involved in a year.
What you remember of AH and AH gameplay ... it's not the same anymore.
huh?
AH is the exact same now, as it was when i left, except new maps, and new players.
-
Originally posted by Overlag
huh?
AH is the exact same now, as it was when i left, except new maps, and new players.
In essence, yes.. in reality, no. I'm with Toad, create an area on every map with Fightertowns and set up the way he outlined and i'll be back.. even before TOD!
:eek:
-
Originally posted by Overlag
AH is the exact same now, as it was when i left, except new maps, and new players.
When it started there were 5 planes and a busy night had 70 people online, now there are....a ton (didn't want to look it up)...of planes and I've seen well over 500 online at one time.
How can that not be a different experience? Fact of the matter is this game has changed many time over the years, sometimes in a small way sometimes with huge changes. But change has been steady, the game is under near constant development after all.
-
Looks like change came huh.
-
thing is, games progress...
its call evolution.
do you REALLY think you would still be playing AHI first beta version now???
as Hitech said, people grow out of games, the problem is when they start complaining that the problem isnt them.
all these furball guys are moaning there isnt any furballs anymore, but they wont up and defend bases like they used to....which makes it worse.
then you get the unupposed "horde" attacking undefended bases.... which they also moan about... yet THEY are the ones that are not upping anymore, and whining about wanting a FT in every map.
every line between bases should be a FT waiting to happen, they just dont want to do that anymore.... so its the GAMES fault?
yeah whatever.
-
Originally posted by Overlag
AH is the exact same now, as it was when i left, except new maps, and new players.
Originally posted by Overlag
thing is, games progress...its call evolution.
So it is exactly the same yet it progresses and evolves.
Glad you cleared that up for us.
:rofl
-
Originally posted by Edbert
When it started there were 5 planes and a busy night had 70 people online, now there are....a ton (didn't want to look it up)...of planes and I've seen well over 500 online at one time.
How can that not be a different experience? Fact of the matter is this game has changed many time over the years, sometimes in a small way sometimes with huge changes. But change has been steady, the game is under near constant development after all.
talking about the first few months of the game vs now is just silly, its two totally different products.
I was talking about AHII. i stopped playing around april 05 due to personal problems, new job, and not enjoying the game anymore... I TOO blamed the game but mostly on my squad forum.....not whiney posts on the BBS. I soon learnt that it wasnt the game that had changed. it was me and my life outside it. Fast forward a year and a half, and i come back. im having fun, and NOTHING in my mind has changed in game play sence, other than FT has removed all furballs from the front lines. maps without FT have furballs at the real bases.
AHII hasnt changed since it was created really. its still the same gameplay, its just furballers dont want to fight on the front lines anymore. Is that the games fault? or the furballers?
-
Originally posted by Edbert1
So it is exactly the same yet it progresses and evolves.
Glad you cleared that up for us.
:rofl
erm ok...i suppose that is really funny.....
to me, the gameplay hasnt changed since the day i started (2002 a bit, then 2004 onwards). But the game HAS changed, added planes, new maps, new players new models etc.
-
ok i take it back....... the game has changed..... 3 MA's? WTF?!?! :O :mad:
-
Originally posted by Overlag
ok i take it back....... the game has changed..... 3 MA's? WTF?!?! :O :mad:
lol. Now try commanding a squad with that, keeping them together, and meeting up with other squads who you cannot contact outside of the game. lol. :rofl (<--- Frustrated, anxious, nervous-breakdown laughter.)