Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ghi on April 02, 2007, 06:15:55 PM
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I wonder ,if we would have planes modeled by vote only , in a game with 90% of the players from North America, what planes would we have now !? P and B series only, flavoured with some F4s, this could be fantasy, pulp fiction game "1944 Civil War" ,
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Well, I bet the Fw190, Spitfire, Bf109 and A6M would all have made it in, and have been voted in by Americans.
Probably the Yak-9, Il-2, Hurricane, Bf110 and Ki-84 too. Lancaster and Mosquito maybe.
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You are absolutely right Ghi, because none of us Americans came from Germany, the UK, France, Italy, or Russia. None. We have no interest in anything that isn't American. :rolleyes:
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Ghi raises a good point. The guys who visit the forum probably DO have wide ranging aviation interests.
The numbers guys voting in the actual GAME probably haven't heard of a Pe-2.
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Actually, P51 wouldn't be much without a british rolls engine, f4u's may have died on the vine if not for british navy figuring out how to land one on a carrier, so really these are two british american fighters.
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it aint our fault we built the best Iron..WOOOOOOWOOOOOOOOO!!
short list of things id like to see corrected
Most used GVS
T34
Panzer
Osti
Tiger
no American there..
bring on the Firefly with Hizooka!
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Originally posted by palef
Ghi raises a good point. The guys who visit the forum probably DO have wide ranging aviation interests.
The numbers guys voting in the actual GAME probably haven't heard of a Pe-2.
That's not necessarly true. I have wide ranging aviation interest and I never heard of the Pe2 before buying IL2.
There are many others simulations out there, and they have plane we don't have in AH... so many guys who don't read the BBS may know of the Pe2 or Me 410 because they played other games...
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Gianlupo, I was illustrating a point, not attempting a definitive example.
The fact remains that the B25 is widely known. What isn't widely known is that there are any number of medium bombers that can do the job a lot better including for instance a brilliant Italian bomber, the SM79), so the B25 will pop out for a visit after it's released (and we all know it's going to win. Darn it.) and then only show up in SEA, or EW and MW. You could use a B26 to go hunt B25s if you were sufficiently deranged.
jaxxo, the Firefly is another example of an Anglo/American success story. US chassis, British gun.
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All the formations do pretty much the same thing, Palef- they drop bombs. The B-26 can be used to hunt them as well; that is no rationale whatsoever to campaign against them being added, or support their removal. I think a lot of people know there were other planes in the war besides the B-25 and P-39, and perhaps, just maybe, they're voting for those planes for the same reasons you voted for whatever your favorite is. It isn't just a matter of "all us stupid americans voting for stupid american planes".
I don't understand this mindset that only a few of you are smart enough to read a book or research a plane on the internet, and that the average AH player is far too stupid, lazy, and biased to do so. WTF is up with that?
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Originally posted by ghi
I wonder ,if we would have planes modeled by vote only , in a game with 90% of the players from North America, what planes would we have now !? P and B series only, flavoured with some F4s, this could be fantasy, pulp fiction game "1944 Civil War" ,
You mean the rest of the planes weren't made up for this game?wtf?:huh
The betrayal:cry
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Let's just say after this I hope HTC never puts it to a vote again!
I agree with Ghi.
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Of course ghi has a valid point. I dont think anyone is really saying that americans are stupid, lazy, etc.... I really point at mass consumption, "brand" recognition as the main reason which will decide the plane to be voted in. Its clearly obvious, from the first and second round of voting that the majority of votes are going towards those planes with the strongest "brand" recognition. Its the same reason we buy electronics of one brand or another, clothes of one brand or another, eat at certain establishments, etc. etc. Anyone with a mild interest on WWII has probably heard of the B25 or P39 ... no suprise they are the top. Less have heard of the He-111, Me410... which I think explains why they reached the second round. And very few have heard of the Pe-2 or Tu-2 ... which again, explains why they were voted out after the first round. What ghi is pointing out is valid for ANY country. If the majority of voters were italian, then the G.55 would have been voted in. If the majority were Finnish, then the brewster, etc. etc. Ghi is merely pointing out something that is part of reality and applicable to any nation, not just america.
Emu
ps: and yes, as with a lot of things already, the forum is not always a true reflection of your average AH player. Forum users are typically better informed about the planes of WWII, not because the average AH player is lazy, stupid, but because we choose to invest more of our time on learning about something which we are more interested in than some others.
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Originally posted by Emu
Of course ghi has a valid point. I dont think anyone is really saying that americans are stupid, lazy, etc....
I am saying that!!! And I'm an American! :t
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whaaa...
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Originally posted by BiGBMAW
whaaa...
pretty much
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Geez the B-25 hasn't even made the final cut and you people are complaining already??? So what if it is outclassed in the LW arenas. Does that matter? I fly early and mid war planes in the LW arenas all the time. So what if everyone recognizes the thing? Think there may be a reason why?
I've voted for the B-25 every time. Not because it's some uber plane that will dominate, but because it was the most used medium bomber of the second world war. More were built and flown in combat in EVERY theater from the begining of the war to the end of the war. That's why it has my vote. Not because it's an American bomber. Not because it's been in the movies, but because it DESERVES a place in this game. That plane EARNED a reputation as a tough and capable aircraft during the entire war.
The B-25 has my vote until it beaten by something else. At that point I'll quit voting because I don't think any other plane listed has the right to be in this game before the B-25.
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Honestly, I don't think the 25 will win... I think the 39 will. And now, after what happened in the first 2 rounds..... go looking for a red horn! :D :t
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Originally posted by Hornet33
I've voted for the B-25 every time. Not because it's some uber plane that will dominate, but because it was the most used medium bomber of the second world war. More were built and flown in combat in EVERY theater from the begining of the war to the end of the war. That's why it has my vote. Not because it's an American bomber. Not because it's been in the movies, but because it DESERVES a place in this game. That plane EARNED a reputation as a tough and capable aircraft during the entire war.
Interesting, that's exactly why I havn't voted for it....knowing it will make it into the game at some point anyway.
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its gonna be the B25...... thanks to ben aflick and pearl harbour......
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ok so the b25 served right through out the war,now do we class that as the American part of the war 1941 to 1945.
if so then the he111 deserves it more because it served from 1939 till 1945.But no one remembers it?
I think no matter what the vote the out come has already been decided,proberly the b25 will win or the p39.i don't think the others stand a chance.
As part of the forth coming Combat tour b25s were attacking france as well as b17s and b24s so it makes sence.
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You know I really take exception to this whole arguement.
For the first 3 years of flying back in brand W I was an A6m & Japanese fanatic.
I didn't like, didn't much care about and never flew US iron.
Once I moved over to AH I slowly started moving from a strickly turn & burn game to a more energy based style. I tried spitfires for a while, then moved up to the C.205, had a brief fling with the 190a5, and eventually moved up to the Russian fighters. Spending most of my time in the Yak & La5fn.
Where in all that 10 years of history does it show ANY bias or preference for US planes?
Now I'll agree that AH needs a lot more than just one plane from that list.
In fact we need the whole list and as soon as possible would suit me fine.
Assuming that that just because I happen to live in the US means I'm going to have a bias to US planes is not just wrong. Its just plain insulting. US players love every plane in the game. It matters not what country they were built.
If they were unique, had something they did well, or were just "cool" us US pilots have loved them.
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Originally posted by Emu
Of course ghi has a valid point. I dont think anyone is really saying that americans are stupid, lazy, etc....
Ofcourse not. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE&feature=PlayList&p=C89463AE0A6C6E75&index=10
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Assuming that that just because I happen to live in the US means I'm going to have a bias to US planes is not just wrong. Its just plain insulting. US players love every plane in the game. It matters not what country they were built.
Agreed.
Except, I do not love the P-40B.
What silly country built that plane?
- oldman
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(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/happy/happy0003.gif)
Lol!
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Originally posted by Krusty
Let's just say after this I hope HTC never puts it to a vote again!
I agree with Ghi.
Yeah, the paying players should NEVER have a voice in what they get for their money. That's just stupid.:O
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A whine has been recorded. Someone call the waaahmbulance.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yeah, the paying players should NEVER have a voice in what they get for their money. That's just stupid.:O
Some comments I saw on text thus far-
"the 410 is a jet bomber like the arado"
"the 39 is like a B Pony but has 37mm cannon" - this one mildly more amusing because of who said it
"pretty sure the yak 3 is a russian jet"
"b25 carries more ord than 24 and its faster"
Etc. etc. etc.
The term "unwashed masses" comes to mind. Give the player base a bone with this vote, sure, but in the future let the people who know something about what might be a fun and/or useful aircraft in the arenas make the choice. And by that I say HTC.
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Originally posted by mipoikel
Ofcourse not. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE&feature=PlayList&p=C89463AE0A6C6E75&index=10
:rofl
Italy and France are gonna be attacked soon! :rofl
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Originally posted by Joachim
Some comments I saw on text thus far-
"the 410 is a jet bomber like the arado"
"the 39 is like a B Pony but has 37mm cannon" - this one mildly more amusing because of who said it
"pretty sure the yak 3 is a russian jet"
"b25 carries more ord than 24 and its faster"
Etc. etc. etc.
The term "unwashed masses" comes to mind. Give the player base a bone with this vote, sure, but in the future let the people who know something about what might be a fun and/or useful aircraft in the arenas make the choice. And by that I say HTC.
Ah yes, the nanny argument. I like it. The people's needs and wants should always be met by those who know better what they need or want.
The FACT is that those who are unhappy with HTC allowing a vote on the next plane are those who didn't get the plane THEY wanted. If only the "unwashed masses" had vote THEIR way, then voting would be a GOOD thing. I'm stunned, absolutely stunned I tell you.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I'm stunned, absolutely stunned I tell you.
I'm surprised you're stunned... I mean, you were here for the MA splits, right?
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Captain, I'm disappointed only because this vote included planes that were going to make it anyway, later in future official patches.
This vote was an opportunity to get a player favorite from outside the list of historical necessities.. Like the Brewster, G55, 410, or something else that HTC wasn't going to take the "blame" for propping up above planeset gaps like the P39, B25, or He111 on the to-do list.
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While I support the idea of a community voting system I think HTC should have made a bigger effort in informing the player base about the nature of each plane on vote. When you log on to the servers you only got the option to alt-F4 out of the game and had to look up the info on the website, something I can't imagine many cared to do. A couple of lines of info on each plane could easily have been written for each plane in the voting window. I.e. "B-25: Twin-engine American medium bomber widely used throughout the war", "Me 410: German twin-engine heavy fighter and ground attack plane", "Yak-3: Russian late-war single engine fighter", or something similar.
A small thing like this would have prevented a lot of misconceptions.
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Originally posted by Viking
While I support the idea of a community voting system I think HTC should have made a bigger effort in informing the player base about the nature of each plane on vote. When you log on to the servers you only got the option to alt-F4 out of the game and had to look up the info on the website, something I can't imagine many cared to do. A couple of lines of info on each plane could easily have been written for each plane in the voting window. I.e. "B-25: Twin-engine American medium bomber widely used throughout the war", "Me 410: German twin-engine heavy fighter and ground attack plane", "Yak-3: Russian late-war single engine fighter", or something similar.
A small thing like this would have prevented a lot of misconceptions.
It may have been sufficient if there just was the info" And the B-25 will NOT be carrier based in this game." :D
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
baaa baaaaaa
The La.7 and N1K probably wouldn't be in game if they were put up against American kit in the voting, and yet they dominate the arena along with the P.51D and Spit.XVI.
People often don't know whats good for them. That being said, I look forward to shooting down these new second tier American units.
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Originally posted by moot
....., I'm disappointed only because this vote included planes that were going to make it anyway, later in future official patches.
This vote was an opportunity to get a player favorite from outside the list of historical necessities.. Like the Brewster, G55, 410, or something else that HTC wasn't going to take the "blame" for propping up above planeset gaps like the P39, B25, or He111 on the to-do list.
top post!
:aok
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While I support the idea of a community voting system I think HTC should have made a bigger effort in informing the player base about the nature of each plane on vote. When you log on to the servers you only got the option to alt-F4 out of the game and had to look up the info on the website, something I can't imagine many cared to do. A couple of lines of info on each plane could easily have been written for each plane in the voting window. I.e. "B-25: Twin-engine American medium bomber widely used throughout the war", "Me 410: German twin-engine heavy fighter and ground attack plane", "Yak-3: Russian late-war single engine fighter", or something similar.
I dunno, Viking...Really, If the vote was that important to them, they would give up 5 min. of MA time to look up some info prior to the vote.
HTC had links to ALL of the aircraft listed on the Homepage for AH. It all goes to Wikipedia, but HTC put it up there, none the less.
He gave them a chance, and a resource to learn.
It's just plain ignorance on their part if they chose not to use it.
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Originally posted by ghi
I wonder ,if we would have planes modeled by vote only , in a game with 90% of the players from North America, what planes would we have now !? P and B series only, flavoured with some F4s, this could be fantasy, pulp fiction game "1944 Civil War" ,
Even if 90% of the players are from N America, 90% of the players are not flying American planes all the time. How do you explain all the LA-7's, N1K2's, and Spit 16s buzzing around the arenas. I'm American and my first choice was the Japanese mystery plane.
Your first choice didn't make it so now it's America's fault?:rofl All you guys that think everybody but you is un-informed and voting by running off the cliff with the rest of the lemmings are da bomb. Thank you for the entertainment.
:aok
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
I dunno, Viking...Really, If the vote was that important to them, they would give up 5 min. of MA time to look up some info prior to the vote.
HTC had links to ALL of the aircraft listed on the Homepage for AH. It all goes to Wikipedia, but HTC put it up there, none the less.
He gave them a chance, and a resource to learn.
It's just plain ignorance on their part if they chose not to use it.
That's exactly the problem; I suspect for most players the vote wasn't that important to them, and they didn't go to the website or forum ... BUT ... they still voted. Probably for something different from what they thought they were voting for.
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The current player base is speaking. (Just as they have with scenarios and events I might add).
A bit of an observation and opinion: IMO if this method had been employed 3-4 years ago I think the planes making it successfully from one round to the next would be very different. But this is not 3-4 years ago and it's a moot point and a worthless opinion.
Just saying that there's no use in arguing about what's happening because the current player demographics are to blame and the few who're not happy with the results are swimming against the tide. Th people who like flying an airplane for it's historical role or for the thrill of trying out something different in the MA are a tiny minority in AH
IMO not until CT arrives (checks personal calendar for 2008 to see if there'll be any playtime to enjoy it) will there be enough (possibly) "voting power" to be wielded by the historically "bent" players to get things their way.
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i think we shuld all crack open a few tins and enjoy the game we play without the new planes, then enjoy whatever bonus we get when it comes along with new terrain visuals.
honestly...we are behaving like a group of shepards with the most magnificant flock around, wobbling all over the place with greed and selfishness about who gets to choose the 35th sheep added.
:huh
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Originally posted by Ghosth
You know I really take exception to this whole arguement.
For the first 3 years of flying back in brand W I was an A6m & Japanese fanatic.
I didn't like, didn't much care about and never flew US iron.
Once I moved over to AH I slowly started moving from a strickly turn & burn game to a more energy based style. I tried spitfires for a while, then moved up to the C.205, had a brief fling with the 190a5, and eventually moved up to the Russian fighters. Spending most of my time in the Yak & La5fn.
Where in all that 10 years of history does it show ANY bias or preference for US planes?
Now I'll agree that AH needs a lot more than just one plane from that list.
In fact we need the whole list and as soon as possible would suit me fine.
Assuming that that just because I happen to live in the US means I'm going to have a bias to US planes is not just wrong. Its just plain insulting. US players love every plane in the game. It matters not what country they were built.
If they were unique, had something they did well, or were just "cool" us US pilots have loved them.
Perfectly stated Ghost!
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Geez the B-25 hasn't even made the final cut and you people are complaining already??? So what if it is outclassed in the LW arenas. Does that matter? I fly early and mid war planes in the LW arenas all the time. So what if everyone recognizes the thing? Think there may be a reason why?
I've voted for the B-25 every time. Not because it's some uber plane that will dominate, but because it was the most used medium bomber of the second world war. More were built and flown in combat in EVERY theater from the begining of the war to the end of the war. That's why it has my vote. Not because it's an American bomber. Not because it's been in the movies, but because it DESERVES a place in this game. That plane EARNED a reputation as a tough and capable aircraft during the entire war.
But if this were a numbers game, the P-39/P-63 and the Pe-2 both had more built and used during World War II. So, by that argument, do they not to be included in the game more than the B-25 does? Or at least deserve to be put in the game before the B-25 is?
And this is a game. Over 600,000 Jeeps were built and used during the war, which has to top just about any production list beyond small arms, munitions, and individual equipment. How many Jeeps do you see running around in the game?
I don't vote for the B-25 because, even though it served well in the war, and was known as a tough and capable medium bomber, it is totally outclassed in the LW arena --- which is where the majority of players can be found in the game. Sure, it can find use in EW, AvA, and SEA events..... but only a very small minority of players from the AHII community take part in those aspects of the game.
For the B-25 to win a popular vote under those conditions means, to me at least, that it is getting its votes from the rest of the AHII community on name recognition from a couple movies, the Doolittle Raid, and many voters not knowledgeable on the B-25's performance numbers as compared to other planes. Even the Wiki entry on the B-25 lists the bomb load as 6,000 lbs, but several other people in these forums, and some checking, showed that the B-25 load was 2,000 lbs in the B-version and 3,000 lbs in later models.
Yes, there are a few players dedicated to the B-25 based on it's history, and use in AvA, SEA, EW, and MW. The rest, because they heard of the B-25 before, or maybe even hoping for an easy target to hunt in LW during it's release. Some even probably still expect a CV-launched B-25.
The remaining 3 on the list could at least compete in LW at some level. Not the B-25. Why, I'll vote for anything but the B-25 in the last round.
And, as to personal use in game; I avoid planes with ENY under 15. Ki-84's, La-5's, Yak, Pony-B's, 109's, C205, B-17's, B-26's, Ki-67's, Ki-61, 190's..... I like variety. I'll try flying a particular plane for a while. Higher ENY planes, but at least those that have some chance against all the La-7's, Spixteens, Nikis, and Pony-D's.
The B-25 carries less than a B-26, slower than a B-26, with half the climb rate of a B-26. I'd never choose it over a B-26, or a Ki-67 for that matter.
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Originally posted by Emu
Forum users are typically better informed about the planes of WWII, not because the average AH player is lazy, stupid, but because we choose to invest more of our time on learning about something which we are more interested in than some others.
That's rich.
I r a forum usr I is smartr thin da rst. :rofl
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Not smarter, better informed.
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That's entirely an assumption on your part, Karnak. There are a few people on here whom I would consider better informed, and a huge majority that just read something on the boards, or on wiki, and suddenly become experts. That doesn't make us better informed; it makes us parrots.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Not smarter, better informed.
Better informed of the BS of the BBS, maybe.
Aircraft data is out there for everybody, not just people who frequent this place.
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Originally posted by Joachim
The La.7 and N1K probably wouldn't be in game if they were put up against American kit in the voting, and yet they dominate the arena along with the P.51D and Spit.XVI.
People often don't know whats good for them. That being said, I look forward to shooting down these new second tier American units.
Nice retort.
People pay their money to play. So I figure they're entitled to choose the next plane if HTC gives them the chance. Just because YOU want something THEY didn't choose does not mean YOU made the better choice. It STILL adds up to sour grapes on your part because you didn't get what you want, and since others didn't agree with your choice, you feel compelled to look down on them for it. Excellent attitude. I'm sure it serves you well.
And I'd bet the Nikki WOULD be here, and probably the LaLa as well.
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The people who frequent the forums are more prone to being WWII aviation enthusiasts.
The information is equally available, no doubt, but the motivation is unlikely to be equal. Also I suspect the average player is much younger than the average forum poster, and I know how much less I knew back then even as an enthusiast.
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Democracy is a wonderfull thing but this is not democracy its POP idol.....
we are similar to the panel and yet we are nought tothe power of the voting players.
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Don't bring democracy into this... The only way politicians get elected is by making sure 80% of the citizens of the U.S. don't vote. It's not about who gets the most, it's about who can make their opponent get the least.
That system's SNAFU. Doesn't really compare to a vote.
I tend to agree with the "unwashed masses" comments -- the ignorant majority type of stereotype.
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TILT!
I just noticed you are from Banbury. I used to go to the Hobby Shop there, along with a few of the pubs. This was back during 1980 to 1983 while stationed at Upper Heyford. I hope to come back for a visit one day. My wife has been told at least 1000 times how pretty it is there, so she'll hold me to it.
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The people who frequent the forums are more prone to being WWII aviation enthusiasts.
I would say there are more people concerned about the way the game is going, Or what's going to happen when the flamefest starts, or how far they can push the forum mod before they get png'd. I've mentioned the BBS to 10 or 12 people in game...They replied that when they've parused the boards, all they saw were people getting bashed, actually by more than 1 poster, sometimes many, and they decided right then and there that the AH bulletin boards were a complete waste of time.
Even if we were to clean up and have a mod in here all the time(Which HTC can't do) you still would'nt see that many players come in here, simply because of the bad reputation.
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Dan doesn't flame people. Widewing doesn't flame people. I don't flame people.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Dan doesn't flame people. Widewing doesn't flame people. I don't flame people.
Well there's three, that's a start.;)
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Originally posted by Shifty
Well there's three, that's a start.;)
only 11,000 some odd users to go
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Originally posted by tedrbr
But if this were a numbers game, the P-39/P-63 and the Pe-2 both had more built and used during World War II. So, by that argument, do they not to be included in the game more than the B-25 does? Or at least deserve to be put in the game before the B-25 is?
And this is a game. Over 600,000 Jeeps were built and used during the war, which has to top just about any production list beyond small arms, munitions, and individual equipment. How many Jeeps do you see running around in the game?
I don't vote for the B-25 because, even though it served well in the war, and was known as a tough and capable medium bomber, it is totally outclassed in the LW arena --- which is where the majority of players can be found in the game. Sure, it can find use in EW, AvA, and SEA events..... but only a very small minority of players from the AHII community take part in those aspects of the game.
For the B-25 to win a popular vote under those conditions means, to me at least, that it is getting its votes from the rest of the AHII community on name recognition from a couple movies, the Doolittle Raid, and many voters not knowledgeable on the B-25's performance numbers as compared to other planes. Even the Wiki entry on the B-25 lists the bomb load as 6,000 lbs, but several other people in these forums, and some checking, showed that the B-25 load was 2,000 lbs in the B-version and 3,000 lbs in later models.
Yes, there are a few players dedicated to the B-25 based on it's history, and use in AvA, SEA, EW, and MW. The rest, because they heard of the B-25 before, or maybe even hoping for an easy target to hunt in LW during it's release. Some even probably still expect a CV-launched B-25.
The remaining 3 on the list could at least compete in LW at some level. Not the B-25. Why, I'll vote for anything but the B-25 in the last round.
And, as to personal use in game; I avoid planes with ENY under 15. Ki-84's, La-5's, Yak, Pony-B's, 109's, C205, B-17's, B-26's, Ki-67's, Ki-61, 190's..... I like variety. I'll try flying a particular plane for a while. Higher ENY planes, but at least those that have some chance against all the La-7's, Spixteens, Nikis, and Pony-D's.
The B-25 carries less than a B-26, slower than a B-26, with half the climb rate of a B-26. I'd never choose it over a B-26, or a Ki-67 for that matter.
Considering the P-63 isn't an option for this vote, there were roughly 400 more B-25's built over the P-39. While more Pe-2 were built over the B-25 that plane was limited to one theater of the war and only a few countries actually flew it. The B-25 was flown by just about every allied country in the war in every theater of the war. Based on those facts I believe the B-25 deserves a place before those other planes.
The rest of your post went on to prove my original point however. You don't want it because it's not some uber ride that can compete in the LW arenas. Again I say so what? It doesn't have too. You make comment on the jeep, but the fact is, it is in the game. It may not be used much but it is there and it does have it's uses. I use the jeep quite a bit for certain missions and it is a suberb vehicle if used in it's intended role.
To limit yourself on a plane only based on whether or not it will or can compete against the LW common uber rides does yourself a disservice in my opinion but your point of view is common in those arenas hence the proliferation of the uber rides to begin with. It's just the mentality of those players. "why should I fly a plane that everyone thinks sucks when I can fly an uber plane that takes no skill?" I personaly enjoy the challenge of taking on the LW uber rides in an EW plane, and it's even better when I win the fight. So my score isn't high, I don't care.
If the B-25 wins, I'll fly it in the LW arenas. I might get killed more while flying it but I don't really care about that. I'll have my time in the spotlight when I land kills in the thing, or come back from a good mission and land all my planes intact while faced with stiff opposistion over the target from the uber planes.
Too each their own, but I'm voting based on historic facts, not on what will compete in the LW areanas. Too limit my vote based on that is just stupid to me, but again that's my opinion.
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Hold the phone! Hold the phone on the assumption that no one knows about the Pe2, G55, etc.
Most of the older veterans in this game are students of WWII Aircraft. We only want Amerian Iron? No......we raised a fuss to get the Ki84 here amongst other aircraft.....inclucing the A5.....the A6M2 and the Ki61.
I myself have been reading and when possible riding in and visiting Museums for over 40 years to see WWII Aircraft and learn about them.
There are many reasons the B25 is my...and many others selection.
1.) Flew in all theaters in many variants in large numbers. (Means if this is a Sim, this aircraft SHOULD be here because of its' service.)
2.) Some of you know that Toads Father was an actual B25 Pilot in the PAC Theater during WWII. Look at some of the past posts to actually view the aircraft that his father flew. If it wins I hope his aircrafts skin is default.
It would be an honor for someone who actually flew the aircraft to take the controls again in this game.
So don't get your undies in a knot youngsters! Before you speak know a little about what you are speaking of. Get the facts before casting aspersions please.
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I have a buddy of mine who's grandfather flew B-25's in the PTO. I believe he said he flew with the Head Hunters. Not sure what squadron and all but he was pretty excited the other day when I told him it was in the running for being added next. He's suposed to get me some pictures of his Grandads plane with all the squadron info.
I really hope it makes it. It would keep the skinners busy for awhile at least.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Let's just say after this I hope HTC never puts it to a vote again!
I agree with Ghi.
Has anyone considered the possibility that THIS is the whole point of the exercise?
Every now and then they turn off killshooter, too.
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Exactly.
To limit yourself on a plane only based on whether or not it will or can compete against the LW common uber rides does yourself a disservice in my opinion but your point of view is common in those arenas hence the proliferation of the uber rides to begin with. It's just the mentality of those players. "why should I fly a plane that everyone thinks sucks when I can fly an uber plane that takes no skill?" I personaly enjoy the challenge of taking on the LW uber rides in an EW plane, and it's even better when I win the fight. So my score isn't high, I don't care.
:aok
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Karnak, I'm sorry, I was'nt going to point out people and name names...And I'm not saying that everyone who posts' here is guilty of some of the things in my previous post. But I'm sure that if you read some of the posts from such events as the MA split, or even some of the current ones (Such as the G.55 threads)You'll see what I mean.
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Hey, I got an idea . . . .
For the next vote, lets start a 'votefortheworstplane.com' web site.
Regards,
:noid
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I must have missed the memo that stated that the current vote winner
will be the last aircraft added to AH2? Isn't it just possible that it's just a
beginning and that we will get something else new in the future?
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Originally posted by Karnak
The people who frequent the forums are more prone to being WWII aviation enthusiasts.
This rang a bell in my hollow head.
It seems to me that the WWII historical aviation enthusiasts have been in the minority - and a very small minority at that - for quite a long time. Probably AH started out with them being in the majority (I wasn't here to confirm this, but I have heard tales told around the camp fire, and I saw the change occur in AW). But now it seems to me that most of the people who fly here have, at most, a very basic concept of WWII aviation, gleaned from such sources as The History Channel. There are many more who seem to have no grounding in the history at all, but who were attracted by the opportunity to have a win-the-war game using the equipment their grandfathers told them about years ago. Or, failing that, using equipment which they may have seen on The History Channel.
While I instinctively resent this, I also recognize that times have changed, I have grown old(er), and kids no longer are interested in reading about the WWI aces, or the WWII aces, or history in general. The world moves on. All you have to do is compare the populations of the early-war, mid-war, and late-war arenas (heh, much less Axis v. Allies) to see that performance and success are what matter most to the overwhelming majority of our group.
The historians among us can scratch the dirt and cluck loudly and peck each other until we bleed to death and die in the dirt, but the rest of the world is moving along by us and paying very little attention to our concerns.
- oldman
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Meh, no population who put Bush into office or that fat git in as American Idol should be given the majority vote on anything, ever again.
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I most humbly must disagree.
Regards,
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Originally posted by Oldman731
This rang a bell in my hollow head.
It seems to me that the WWII historical aviation enthusiasts have been in the minority - and a very small minority at that - for quite a long time. Probably AH started out with them being in the majority (I wasn't here to confirm this, but I have heard tales told around the camp fire, and I saw the change occur in AW). But now it seems to me that most of the people who fly here have, at most, a very basic concept of WWII aviation, gleaned from such sources as The History Channel. There are many more who seem to have no grounding in the history at all, but who were attracted by the opportunity to have a win-the-war game using the equipment their grandfathers told them about years ago. Or, failing that, using equipment which they may have seen on The History Channel.
While I instinctively resent this, I also recognize that times have changed, I have grown old(er), and kids no longer are interested in reading about the WWI aces, or the WWII aces, or history in general. The world moves on. All you have to do is compare the populations of the early-war, mid-war, and late-war arenas (heh, much less Axis v. Allies) to see that performance and success are what matter most to the overwhelming majority of our group.
The historians among us can scratch the dirt and cluck loudly and peck each other until we bleed to death and die in the dirt, but the rest of the world is moving along by us and paying very little attention to our concerns.
- oldman
You know, before I bought AW3 one rainy day, I'd never even heard of a P51 or a Spitfire, so I suppose I was one of the guys that you'd instinctively resent... But, OTOH, games like this certainly did spark a true interest in me that I now have a fairly decent chunk of my personal library devoted to books on WW2 aviation in one way or another... Die cast models, trips to airshows and museums...
Basically, I've gone from someone who might have thought the show, "Dogfights" was cool because of the graphics, etc., to someone who thinks the show is cool based on how it looks exactly as it did in my head when I was reading about the dogfight in question (especially that Mustang vs. 109, prop-hanging fight, forget the names)...
I'm no expert on the topic, by any means, but I'm also certainly not reliant on the history channel for my information anymore, either.
I'm sure there are others like me. People who grew to enjoy the same interests as you, but who probably never would have been able to if it weren't for games like this.
Give newer people a chance, and I'm sure they'll join that fold, too.
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Gianlupo
I am not telling you what in voting for:t
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Originally posted by Oldman731
While I instinctively resent this, I also recognize that times have changed, I have grown old(er), and kids no longer are interested in reading about the WWI aces, or the WWII aces, or history in general. The world moves on. All you have to do is compare the populations of the early-war, mid-war, and late-war arenas (heh, much less Axis v. Allies) to see that performance and success are what matter most to the overwhelming majority of our group.
- oldman
Well put Old one.:aok
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I'm with Batfink and Rino in this one.
We can assume HT has the data of all the planes in the vote list. We'll have them all, sooner or later.
HT gave us a bone to gnaw. And it worked. :D
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Originally posted by jon
Gianlupo
I am not telling you what in voting for:t
:lol
But I'll know it, anyway! My crystal sphere will tell me!
MWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAH! :t
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Originally posted by Oldman731
This rang a bell in my hollow head.
It seems to me that the WWII historical aviation enthusiasts have been in the minority - and a very small minority at that - for quite a long time. Probably AH started out with them being in the majority (I wasn't here to confirm this, but I have heard tales told around the camp fire, and I saw the change occur in AW). But now it seems to me that most of the people who fly here have, at most, a very basic concept of WWII aviation, gleaned from such sources as The History Channel. There are many more who seem to have no grounding in the history at all, but who were attracted by the opportunity to have a win-the-war game using the equipment their grandfathers told them about years ago. Or, failing that, using equipment which they may have seen on The History Channel.
Old and wise:aok
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I'm a merican, and I rode the he111, all the way to the crash site.:rolleyes: