Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Noir on August 31, 2010, 01:15:23 PM
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We are waiting the RAF geeks at boarding gate number 1 :rock
I see it can hold a cookie, someone (Karnak) can resume its stats ? :D
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:rock
.. and that will be good. :)
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Top speed should be about 408-416mph at about 25,000-27,000ft. On the deck it will probably do about 320mph +/-10mph.
Payload is four 500lb bombs in the bomb bay and one under each wing, or replace the four in the bomb bay with a 4,000lb 'cookie'. The screen shot shows a 'cookie' and two 500lb bombs, but I am not sure it ever carried that. I am not sure on that last point.
It has, as many already know, not a single gun on it. The windscreen is not armored, though contrary to the History Channel, it does have pilot armor and self sealing fuel tanks.
It was also a pressurized aircraft, cockpit pressure being, IIRC, 2lbs.sq.in higher than outside.
Range is basic Mossie, about 1200 miles without drop tanks and about 1800 with them.
B.Mk XVIs began operations in early 1944 so this will be a late war only bomber and is likely to be a low end perk bomber.
Loss rates were, needless to say, extremely low on this aircraft in reality. I expect it to be useful, but much more vulnerable in AH2 due to the high intensity of combat and frequency of fast fighters. In particular I would point out the Bf109K-4, P-47M, P-47N, Ta152H-1, P-51B, P-51D, F4U-4, Spitfire Mk XIV and Me163 will all be lethal threats.
EDIT:
Fixed typo.
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Top speed should be about 408-416mph at about 25,000-27,000ft. On the deck it will probably do about 420mph +/-10mph.
If it can do 420 mph on the deck, about the only threat it will have will be the 262 and 163. Is that number correct?
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If it can do 420 mph on the deck, about the only threat it will have will be the 262 and 163. Is that number correct?
That was a typo. ~320mph +/-10mph.
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I believe this was the Mosquito we had in AW and that thing was untouchable at high altitudes, only fuel load limited it.
ack-ack
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Variant summary from "Mosquito" by C. Martin Sharp & Michael J. F. Bowyer:
B.Mk. XVI (Merlin 72/73, 76/77 Bomber with two-stage Merlins and a pressure cabin. First flew 1.1.44. Fuel: 860 gal. max., 539 gal. with useful load (4 X 500 lb. bombs and 2 X 100 gal. drop tanks); 587 gal. max. fuel load or 497 gal. plus 4,000 lb. bomb and 2 X 50 gal. tanks. Weights: (lb.) a.u.w. with small bomb bay 23,646 (24,152 carrying 2 X 100 gal. tanks), a.u.w. with 6 X 500 lb. bombs on Avro carrier 24,030. With 4,000 lb. bomb: 14,901 tare, a.u.w. 24,412; a.u.w. with 2 X 100 gal. tanks 25,917. With H2S a.u.w. 24,064 when carrying 4 X 500 lb. bombs and Boozer with Oboe and 4,000 lb. bomb; a.u.w. 25,501 when also fitted with Album Leaf, Fishpond, Boozer or Monica. 23,888 lb. recommended for the 4,0000lb. bomb Mk. IX/XVI, on 20.1.44, maximum take off weight as 25,200 lb. and landing weight of 20,500 lb.., fuel capacity being 597 gal., operating from an 1,800 yard runway. Initial operating ceiling was set by this order at 28,500 feet, rising to 29,500 feet at target. Still-air range was set at 1,470 miles, max. op. range as 1,00 miles and op radius at 550 miles. Speeds: (8 Group listing) 329 m.p.h. at S.L., max. after leaving target 333 m.p.h. S.L.,, max. 408 m.p.h. F.S. gear at 28,500 feet before target, 419 m.p.h after, all with unshrouded exhaust machines (standard). Length overall 40 feet 6 inches. Declared obsolete 14.4.49.
So, we have loaded speed at sea level at 329mph, after bombs gone at sea level of 333mph. Best altitude is 28,500ft where it does 408mph with bombs and 419mph afters bombs are gone.
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Dive bombing with the cookie is going to be SO fun :neener:
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Dive bombing with the cookie is going to be SO fun :neener:
while my darn F4U1C cap crew is following you in :D
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Dive bombing with the cookie is going to be SO fun :neener:
They did drop the Cookies in a shallow dive.
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Awesome looking plane indeed!
Karnak, according to www.mossie.org (http://www.mossie.org): B.XVI Bomber. Pressure cabin development of the B.IX with Merlin 72, 73, 76 and 77 engines able to carry 3000lb bombs. All were converted in 1944 to take 4000lb bomb in the fuselage and two 50 gallon wing drop tanks or 100 gallon drop tanks with four 500lb bombs.
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http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/dz540.pdf
Indicates 342 TAS at 2k with +18 lbs boost (WEP) for a PR XVI so 333 TAS sounds about right considering the bulged doors.
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Fair well Ju-87. Your time was served well, but you have a replacement now :D
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IM WAITING :D
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Fair well Ju-87. Your time was served well, but you have a replacement now :D
are you kidding? this is like replacing a VW beetle for an Aston-Martin DB9.... talk about a step up.
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Awesome looking plane indeed!
Karnak, according to www.mossie.org (http://www.mossie.org): B.XVI Bomber. Pressure cabin development of the B.IX with Merlin 72, 73, 76 and 77 engines able to carry 3000lb bombs. All were converted in 1944 to take 4000lb bomb in the fuselage and two 50 gallon wing drop tanks or 100 gallon drop tanks with four 500lb bombs.
Should be noted that the B.IXs were the ones converted. The B.XVI was designed and intended to carry the 'cookie' from the start. It seems it could take a 'cookie' and two 100 gallon drop tanks, and if it could take that then it could take a 'cookie' and two 500lb bombs, but I still haven't ever seen mention of it doing so.
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Should be noted that the B.IXs were the ones converted. The B.XVI was designed and intended to carry the 'cookie' from the start. It seems it could take a 'cookie' and two 100 gallon drop tanks, and if it could take that then it could take a 'cookie' and two 500lb bombs, but I still haven't ever seen mention of it doing so.
Hard to carry a Cookie on the 1st 12 B.XVIs as they did have the bulged bomb bay.
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Should be noted that the B.IXs were the ones converted. The B.XVI was designed and intended to carry the 'cookie' from the start. It seems it could take a 'cookie' and two 100 gallon drop tanks, and if it could take that then it could take a 'cookie' and two 500lb bombs, but I still haven't ever seen mention of it doing so.
5K per Mosquito, thats almost a B17 :P
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5K per Mosquito, thats almost a B17 :P
just swap out the insane amount of guns and armor for pure unadulterated speed
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Will this plane be perked? If so at what cost, ill start bombing towns.
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It looks like it will be a fun plane to fly, something to use bomber perks on.
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IMO it won't be perked.
No guns, and il won't be THAT fast with the cookie on.
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IMO it won't be perked.
No guns, and il won't be THAT fast with the cookie on.
Let me quote an earlier post:
max. 408 m.p.h. F.S. gear at 28,500 feet before target.
Even if it were "only" like 390mph, it would be very high speed for that altitude, making interception very difficult.
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we'll see how HTC looks at it, its not only about the stats but also about the MA usage.
A cookie won't change the world! :banana:
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A cookie won't change the world! :banana:
Well, the Mossie will carry 83% of a B-17 bombload, and 150% of the Ar 234...
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Well, the Mossie will carry 83% of a B-17 bombload, and 150% of the Ar 234...
and along with this it'll have approximately 90% the max speed of the Ar 234 also at 27k feet... it may get a higher perk than the 234...
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Im going to ask a serious question here. How many people are going to climb to 28k to drop bombs? I doubt it will be that many, and the mossie will probably not be perked.
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and along with this it'll have approximately 90% the max speed of the Ar 234 also at 27k feet... it may get a higher perk than the 234...
I doubt that it will be perked. For Christ's sake, the darn thing doesn't have any guns to defend itself with! Not to mention it's made of wood. Yes the B.XVI will be hard to intercept, and while it may carry 83% of a B17 bomb load, or have 90% of the Arado's speed, it simply isn't going to overbalance the gameplay. All the Mossie can hope for is that there is no co-alt, or higher, cons intercepting it. It would be a sitting duck if there were. I think some people are making the B.XVI to be something impossible to bring down, when it really would not be the case. There are several planes in the MA that will have no problem intercepting the B.XVI co-alt or lower.
Elusive? Yes. Unstoppable? Hell no.
While it will carry the cookie, about the only EFECTIVE use for the cookie would be to either drop it on a strat, or in the center cluster of town buildings. Using the cookie for a hangar would just be a waste of a bomb when it has the potential to do more damage on other targets.
If the B.XVI had a tail gunner, I would definitely support putting a perk on it. Otherwise give it a low ENY value like 5 or 10. If I am wrong about the B.XVI being overbalancing to the gameplay, then go for the perk price.
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It's would be good to see another perked bomber in AH. I'd Actually have something to spend my perkies on then the Ar-234. :airplane:
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I doubt that it will be perked. For Christ's sake, the darn thing doesn't have any guns to defend itself with! Not to mention it's made of wood. Yes the B.XVI will be hard to intercept, and while it may carry 83% of a B17 bomb load, or have 90% of the Arado's speed, it simply isn't going to overbalance the gameplay. All the Mossie can hope for is that there is no co-alt, or higher, cons intercepting it. It would be a sitting duck if there were. I think some people are making the B.XVI to be something impossible to bring down, when it really would not be the case. There are several planes in the MA that will have no problem intercepting the B.XVI co-alt or lower.
Elusive? Yes. Unstoppable? Hell no.
While it will carry the cookie, about the only EFECTIVE use for the cookie would be to either drop it on a strat, or in the center cluster of town buildings. Using the cookie for a hangar would just be a waste of a bomb when it has the potential to do more damage on other targets.
If the B.XVI had a tail gunner, I would definitely support putting a perk on it. Otherwise give it a low ENY value like 5 or 10. If I am wrong about the B.XVI being overbalancing to the gameplay, then go for the perk price.
you really think you'll be seeing any enemy cons over a base with a furball that high up??? no i doubt there will be many there. and seeing as how very few cons will intercept co alt, the mossi has no real threat if flown properly at all... and how many times have you seen any cons on your six with the 234 if you fly that right also?
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you really think you'll be seeing any enemy cons over a base with a furball that high up??? no i doubt there will be many there. and seeing as how very few cons will intercept co alt, the mossi has no real threat if flown properly at all... and how many times have you seen any cons on your six with the 234 if you fly that right also?
I have flown the 234 many times in the past- mainly when winging up with Spikes. When I fly the 234, I deliberately put enemies on my six so I can shoot 'em. I rarely, if ever, use them for bombing.
It's not really a question of whether someone wants to intercept a Mossie. It's whether it will unbalance the game. That is what the perk system is for- game balance.
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It would make no sense to perk it. Let folks see how the ungunned Mossie works.
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I have flown the 234 many times in the past- mainly when winging up with Spikes. When I fly the 234, I deliberately put enemies on my six so I can shoot 'em. I rarely, if ever, use them for bombing.
It's not really a question of whether someone wants to intercept a Mossie. It's whether it will unbalance the game. That is what the perk system is for- game balance.
im not saying go nuts with the perk. obviously it only can defend itself with speed. but when used optimally, it is near unstoppable by any enemy lower than it just like the AR234 BOMBERRRRRRR... :lol
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I just hope there's a HUGE mission of them so I can up a jet and start killen them :t.
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I just hope there's a HUGE mission of them so I can up a jet and start killen them :t.
With the Mossi at altitude and speed, even being in a jet it will be hard to intercept. Only thing that will be close catching it is a 163. Unless (as pointed out before) you position yourself a head of time for a intercept.
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It can and will be caught by the P-47M which thrives at 30K feet.
Infidelz
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It can and will be caught by the P-47M which thrives at 30K feet.
Infidelz
Yup.....if the P-47 is already up there when it encounters the Mossie. If the P-47 has to climb up there first, not so much as the Mossie will be long gone before the P-47 matches altitude.
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Excited about a plane that has no guns?
-BigBOBCH
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Excited about a plane that has no guns?
-BigBOBCH
thats what ive been saying! it'll get a few months of love then it's a hangar queen. but it's a historical plane; bring it on. always need a few more bullet magnets :aok
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thats what ive been saying! it'll get a few months of love then it's a hangar queen. but it's a historical plane; bring it on. always need a few more bullet magnets :aok
4k bomb=not a hanger queen :)
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4k bomb=not a hanger queen :)
i stand by my previous statement :noid
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I see this being used a lot when enemy gv's attack and there are no enemy air cons nearby. ;)
Many of you blokes need to relax and wait for when it arrives. Some of you have already made up your mind and you've not even flown it. Wait. :aok
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and you've not even flown it.
and i never will :aok
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It can and will be caught by the P-47M which thrives at 30K feet.
Infidelz
If it has a similar maneuverability like our current Mossie MK6 has (sans bombs of course), it will either fly circles around any plane that can catch it at that altitude, or at least will be able to put up a tough fight. Yes, your bomb run will be spoiled, but chances of survival are still good, as long as you have formations disabled.
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If it has a similar maneuverability like our current Mossie MK6 has (sans bombs of course), it will either fly circles around any plane that can catch it at that altitude, or at least will be able to put up a tough fight. Yes, your bomb run will be spoiled, but chances of survival are still good, as long as you have formations disabled.
It's 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses... HIT IT. :aok
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It's 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses... HIT IT. :aok
:lol
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If it has a similar maneuverability like our current Mossie MK6 has (sans bombs of course), it will either fly circles around any plane that can catch it at that altitude, or at least will be able to put up a tough fight. Yes, your bomb run will be spoiled, but chances of survival are still good, as long as you have formations disabled.
(http://members.arstechnica.com/x/karnak/MossMk108Dam.jpg)
Mosquito PR.Mk XVI that dodged an Me262's attacks for ~30 minutes after the initial attack did the damage shown to it.
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:D
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I think i'll just fly the XVI without bombs at 30K just for fun and to annoy any fighters up there waiting. :devil
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lol
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(http://members.arstechnica.com/x/karnak/MossMk108Dam.jpg)
Mosquito PR.Mk XVI that dodged an Me262's attacks for ~30 minutes after the initial attack did the damage shown to it.
From what I have heard, didn't the Germans despise the Mossie as it could seemingly "shrug" off 30mm cannon rounds like the one shown in the picture?
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IMO it shouldn't have formations. It wasn't a 1000-plane-mission type of bird. It was small missions, pinpoint precision. None of this carpet bombing stuff. And it never flew in box formations to cover other bombers with its guns (because... hah! It has none...)
Overall I'd like to see it like the B5N or TBM or B-25H: No drones.
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IMO it shouldn't have formations. It wasn't a 1000-plane-mission type of bird. It was small missions, pinpoint precision. None of this carpet bombing stuff. And it never flew in box formations to cover other bombers with its guns (because... hah! It has none...)
Overall I'd like to see it like the B5N or TBM or B-25H: No drones.
Neither was the Ar234 and yet it has formations.
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I think the Ar234, like the Me262 bomber, wasn't really thought through all that well.
The Mossie was given serious thought and consideration as to its role and intentions. Those didn't include Mass carpet bombing daylight missions with stacked box formations, like the heavy bombers.
Whether you want to petition to remove drones from the Ar234, I won't stop you. I'm putting forth the thought that we ought not make the mistake with the Mossie, though. It's a different issue, IMO.
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I have never heard of a single formation based raid of Ar234s.
You are correct that Mossies didn't really do that either. In AH it seems a problem though as it is hard to justify the perk price of one of these without the formation as they simply don't do enough damage, but left unperked they would be monsters.
I really think formations for the Ar234 and Mosquito XVI need to be there as a concession to game play.
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Bomber gameplay is already full of too many concessions.
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4k bomb=not a hanger queen :)
When was the last time you flew the Stuka?
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When was the last time you flew the Stuka?
If you think the Mosquito Mk XVI is anything like as vulnerable or poor performing as the Ju87D you're in for a surprise.
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(http://www.hitechcreations.com/news/images/mossie16/mossie163.jpg)hole (word i shouldn't say)>****! is that a 4000 bomb!?...*faint*(http://www.hitechcreations.com/news/images/mossie16/mossie164.jpg)hay is that a bomb sight id hate to PO the knight with this plane.(no offence to the knights)
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In AH it seems a problem though as it is hard to justify the perk price of one of these without the formation as they simply don't do enough damage, but left unperked they would be monsters.
And yet I believe the highest scoring single sortie record is owned by the Arado. I wonder how that happened? :devil
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hole (word i shouldn't say)>****! is that a 4000 bomb!?...*faint*
Yes, that is a 4,000lb 'cookie', the same as the one the Lancaster carries.
And yet I believe the highest scoring single sortie record is owned by the Arado. I wonder how that happened? :devil
A single Ar234? I doubt it. You did it with a formation. Take the formation away and it simply isn't worth the time as more damage could be done in the same time in a P-47, P-38 or Bf110.
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Bomber gameplay is already full of too many concessions.
True.
However, lets consider the gameplay for level bombers. There are two ways to go: High, above the fighters at least till you get to the drop. Low, fighting the fighters off with your guns. Since the mossie XVI has no guns and low altitude speed is good but not enough (not to mention attack from above), the second option will be difficult without good friendly cover. Coming in fast and high is much more likely to get the mosquito to the drop, but putting a bomb on target from 25K while going 400 MPH is not an easy task - even with the easy mode calibration.
What will formations do? For the low altitude options it robs the B-moss of its only defense - you cannot maneuver to evade attacks with a formation without loosing it. A players who cares not about his score can abuse this by taking the drones as "extras" and let them die if he is attacked (giving free two kills to the attacker?). Even a perk tag of 1 will seriously lower the number of such cases. For bombing accuracy, this helps a little. All 3 cookies will drop together, but will cover a wider pattern of total destruction - this is a waste. many small bombs are more effective for a city and the spacing between the cookies is not enough to take more than 1 hangar with an overkill. The new CV killer?
So the only thing formations will add to the B-moss is increased effectiveness as a daytime, high alt level bomber - something it was never intended to do in real life, but the way it will play in AH. Unless coming with heavy fighter cover, a low/mid-alt level bombing is better served by a bloated 4 engine machine. Enabling formations, with a small perk tag will allow it to be an effective high alt bomber, prevent/minimize miss-use and give something to spend the easy-to-get but useless bomber perks on.
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Yes, that is a 4,000lb 'cookie', the same as the one the Lancaster carries.
A single Ar234? I doubt it. You did it with a formation. Take the formation away and it simply isn't worth the time as more damage could be done in the same time in a P-47, P-38 or Bf110.
What you dont 'get' is that time isnt material in bomber mode. In the aircraft you mention you cannot bomb from altitude. With the Arado you not only can but should. A formation comes with all sorts of unintended baggage like lack of maneuverability (although lots of people dont let that stop them) and they also offer a much broader target to puffy ack and you cannot rearm without losing your drones (not to mention what a momentary lag will do to them). I never carry the cannon either because I think the dispersal cone of the rounds is a bit 'gamey' and gimmicked (just my opinion) and it slows you down. Its much better in my way of thinking to keep moving than it is to try to setup some ridiculous face shot on a trailing fighter but thats just me.
Now if the Mosquito comes without a bombsight thats different but I suspect it will become even more handy than a single Arado. I dont think the P-47s will be a problem at all but thats just me. :D
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a daytime, high alt level bomber - something it was never intended to do in real life, but the way it will play in AH
You are in error on that count. The Mosquito XVI was used as a high altitude, level bomber during the day. What it wasn't used for was mass formations carpet bombing by dropping when the leader's bombs dropped.
Challenge, so you used a single Ar234 and multiple rearms to get that score? You would have had much more effect using your P-51 for the time it took you to do that I think, but yes, the Ar234 and Mosquito XVI should be able to rack up much larger scores than any slow, turreted heavy simply by making use of their survivability and the rearming option.
The only aircraft in AH that I have never lost is the Ar234. I haven't flown it in ages, but the was a tour I flew many, many Ar234 sorties.
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When was the last time you flew the Stuka?
two days ago :)
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I don't see why it would be perked at all. The performance, while great compared to other bombers, is a function of altitude, and the ship needs to be very high to achieve its best speeds. I'm not even sure it should be a "5" ENY...
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Keep in mind that the climbrate will be more fighter than bomber-like. Probably not with the cookie and the 2 x 500 on the wings, but with an internal 4 x 500 you will get to those alts rather quickly.
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4k bomb=not a hanger queen :)
historically, though, the cookie was a blast bomb with almost no penetration capability
against hardened targets.
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Chalenge I guess I missed it someplace, where are the highest Ar234 sortie points listed?
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I don't see why it would be perked at all. The performance, while great compared to other bombers, is a function of altitude, and the ship needs to be very high to achieve its best speeds. I'm not even sure it should be a "5" ENY...
Main reason I think it needs to be perked is that it will be much too powerful a tool with which to smash ships or tanks given its speed and the 4,000lb bomb if it isn't controlled by a perk price to encourage non-kamikaze tactics.
historically, though, the cookie was a blast bomb with almost no penetration capability
against hardened targets.
The vast majority of targets in AH are not hardened.
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Chalenge I guess I missed it someplace, where are the highest Ar234 sortie points listed?
If you ever hear of a higher damage count please let me know. :D
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/PBArado.png)
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Well the best I've seen without rearming is this one;
(http://www.332nd.org/dogs/Drone/buff_secret_1.jpg)
If I understand the earlier posts, you did rearm correct?
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Well the best I've seen without rearming is this one;
(http://www.332nd.org/dogs/Drone/buff_secret_1.jpg)
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3841/b17top.jpg)
:D
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From what I have heard, didn't the Germans despise the Mossie as it could seemingly "shrug" off 30mm cannon rounds like the one shown in the picture?
Missed this comment earlier. I wouldn't say it could shrug them off. Due to the nature of plywood as compared to aluminum individual hits tended to do less damage to a Mosquito compared to an aluminum aircraft. All that means is that it could, on average, take more hits than a similarly sized aluminum aircraft. The Mosquito in the photo was lucky to survive the 2-4 30mm hits it took and still be so flyable that the pilot was able to perform effective evasives for an extended period of time.
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Well the best I've seen without rearming is this one;
(http://www.332nd.org/dogs/Drone/buff_secret_1.jpg)
If I understand the earlier posts, you did rearm correct?
I hit 49k with B17s already without rearm (and obviously snailman more). The point of this is sortie count and damage. If you take a formation you lose drones when you rearm so a formation cannot score higher. A single Lanc could but it takes more time to climb and involves more risk (something not even SHawk is going to endure) but rearms will be required which involve more time and more risk still. Arado formations are okay for CV killing and thats about it.
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I hit 49k with B17s already without rearm (and obviously snailman more). The point of this is sortie count and damage. If you take a formation you lose drones when you rearm so a formation cannot score higher. A single Lanc could but it takes more time to climb and involves more risk (something not even SHawk is going to endure) but rearms will be required which involve more time and more risk still. Arado formations are okay for CV killing and thats about it.
To further hijack this thread: :D
I'd epect a single (formation) run in Lancasters to break 80K landed damage with the 14x1000 lbs loadout. However, the chance of surviving a run that long are quite low.
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IMO it shouldn't have formations. It wasn't a 1000-plane-mission type of bird. It was small missions, pinpoint precision. None of this carpet bombing stuff. And it never flew in box formations to cover other bombers with its guns (because... hah! It has none...)
Overall I'd like to see it like the B5N or TBM or B-25H: No drones.
it the Mk B XVI was not a pinpoint precision bomber....... it carried the cookie and dropped it from considerable altitude with all the (in) accuracy that involves. It flew missions in squadron strength against significant strategic targets.
the fighter bomber we have now did fly many intruder raids very often just as a pair some times even solitary raids (particularly into Southern France and Northern Italy from Sicily or Southern Italy) It was far more "precision" in its role. It was essentially an attack aircraft.
My view is that it (Mk B XVI) should be formation enabled and perked appropriately. It does not have to have been a participator in mass bombing raids to qualify for this IMO.
My biggest concern is its (Miss) use in AH against GV's. One way to fight this would be to make it perked and ONLY available in formations when carrying the cookie (or simply perk the cookie).
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My biggest concern is its (Miss) use in AH against GV's.
In the light of carpet bombing Lancs (incl cookie), A20s, B25H's and 37mm cannon wielding Il-2s, that shouldn't change the game much for the tankers ;)
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What you dont 'get' is that time isnt material in bomber mode. In the aircraft you mention you cannot bomb from altitude. With the Arado you not only can but should. A formation comes with all sorts of unintended baggage like lack of maneuverability (although lots of people dont let that stop them) and they also offer a much broader target to puffy ack and you cannot rearm without losing your drones (not to mention what a momentary lag will do to them). I never carry the cannon either because I think the dispersal cone of the rounds is a bit 'gamey' and gimmicked (just my opinion) and it slows you down. Its much better in my way of thinking to keep moving than it is to try to setup some ridiculous face shot on a trailing fighter but thats just me.
Now if the Mosquito comes without a bombsight thats different but I suspect it will become even more handy than a single Arado. I dont think the P-47s will be a problem at all but thats just me. :D
The Arado is one of the most useful planes in the game in pretty much every aspect.
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The Arado is one of the most useful planes in the game in pretty much every aspect.
No but you gimmick it well. :D
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it the Mk B XVI was not a pinpoint precision bomber....... it carried the cookie and dropped it from considerable altitude with all the (in) accuracy that involves. It flew missions in squadron strength against significant strategic targets.
A squadron of Mossies (2 flights? 8-10 planes?) is a frakking helluva lot less impressive and destructive than the NORM of 1000-plane missions for heavy bombers carpet bombing millions of pounds of high explosive ord.
There is no way you will ever compare a mossie 16 to a heavy level bomber.
The B5Ns are more akin to heavy bombers than the Mossie is! At least they flew massive missions with level bombing (Pearl and other areas of the PTO). Frankly it'd be a travesty to have formations on everything with a bombsight. That includes the Mossie. It's just not that type of plane.
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A squadron of Mossies (2 flights? 8-10 planes?) is a frakking helluva lot less impressive and destructive than the NORM of 1000-plane missions for heavy bombers carpet bombing millions of pounds of high explosive ord.
There is no way you will ever compare a mossie 16 to a heavy level bomber.
The B5Ns are more akin to heavy bombers than the Mossie is! At least they flew massive missions with level bombing (Pearl and other areas of the PTO). Frankly it'd be a travesty to have formations on everything with a bombsight. That includes the Mossie. It's just not that type of plane.
take that 4000 pound bomb and multipli it by 10 now thinkthats 8 or 9 hangers gone right thayer!(not all the planes will hit a target) and yes the new mossi is able to hold a 4000 if you didnt read my last post hear.
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Frankly it'd be a travesty to have formations on everything with a bombsight.
Then we disagree.............
and IMO the B5n should be available in formations...........
1000 bomber raids have no relevance in AH until we can get AI in scenarios....its just a red herring arguement IMO.
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To further hijack this thread: :D
I'd epect a single (formation) run in Lancasters to break 80K landed damage with the 14x1000 lbs loadout. However, the chance of surviving a run that long are quite low.
Its not necessarily the getting shot down thats gonna end it. I usually don't encounter any enemy fighter at 25K+. The problem i have is staying connected to HTC long enough to land. Which i can't.
I had dropped all 14 bombs today but i discoed RTB. Talk about pissed off
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If you ever hear of a higher damage count please let me know. :D
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/PBArado.png)
EGOOOOO.... but i saw this also during the time i was in the game :aok still good job! :lol
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EGOOOOO.... but i saw this also during the time i was in the game :aok still good job! :lol
Ha! No I just want to know where to set the bar when this new Mossie arrives. It sounds like great fun and a good plane to know well.
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Ha! No I just want to know where to set the bar when this new Mossie arrives. It sounds like great fun and a good plane to know well.
agreed :aok
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Update: New record... fights are non-existent on our side as rooks-knights are playing patty-cake:
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/Arado-2.png)
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Update: New record... fights are non-existent on our side as rooks-knights are playing patty-cake:
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/Arado-2.png)
So how many rearms did that take? :rofl
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Twelve and I was having trouble with a data cable toggling my bomb load in transit or the count would have been higher. :aok
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Twelve and I was having trouble with a data cable toggling my bomb load in transit or the count would have been higher. :aok
Anybody else get the following 'visual' in their head?
(http://fatpenguinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/dirtyKeyboard.jpg)
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Wow Lute you should clean up around the house a lot!
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Anybody else get the following 'visual' in their head?
(http://fatpenguinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/dirtyKeyboard.jpg)
:eek: BLEK! ops oh don't worry it blends in with the key board lol
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Wow Lute you should clean up around the house a lot!
That was AFTER he cleaned up :lol
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it the Mk B XVI was not a pinpoint precision bomber....... it carried the cookie and dropped it from considerable altitude with all the (in) accuracy that involves. It flew missions in squadron strength against significant strategic targets.
There is a difference between the 4,000 lb HC bomb, or 'cookie', and the 4,000 lb MC bomb, which could, and was, used for precision bombing.
The cookie had all the aerodynamic qualities of a tumbling barrel. Actual weight was 3,940 lb, with a charge to weight ratio of 75%. Mosquitos usually dropped it on area targets from medium to high altitude.
The 4,000 lb MC was used from mid/late 1944 for drops on both area AND precision targets. It was usually dropped from higher altitudes than the cookie, because of its more predictable flight path. It had a charge to weight ratio of 58% and was similar in construction to standard GP/MC bombs. Actual weight was 3,764 lbs.
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If my calculations are correct the maximum effort I would be willing to put forth would result in the Arado delivering approximately 183625 damage points and the Mosquito would deliver approximately 108800 in the same time frame.
I cant wait to see how it plays out. :D
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I don't see why it would be perked at all. The performance, while great compared to other bombers, is a function of altitude, and the ship needs to be very high to achieve its best speeds. I'm not even sure it should be a "5" ENY...
ENY = 10
Perk cost = 30
:)
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Okay so we have it now but its not enabled online?
No attack mode. :(
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ENY = 10
Perk cost = 30
:)
One out of two ain't bad... :)
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I'm down for the Mossie being lightly perked, say 10 perks per unit max; 30 perks, no.
We can't drop one cookie at a time? That's a little overkill.
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I'm down for the Mossie being lightly perked, say 10 perks per unit max; 30 perks, no.
We can't drop one cookie at a time? That's a little overkill.
yea.. and because of that, the only purpose i see for a formation is killing CV's and killing HQ.
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yea.. and because of that, the only purpose i see for a formation is killing CV's and killing HQ.
Nope...
It's a milkrunners dream. Yes, the cookie is overkill, but you have another choice: take the 4x500 + 2x500. With formation, that's 6 town centers dropped. A whole lotta points for very low risk in being caught. (fully loaded Mossie takes only about 22 minutes to reach 25k, without using WEP)
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2757/1stmossie.jpg)
At least two, but probably three fighters took off to intercept me. Two of them chased me several sectors, never even remotely coming close enough to see my icon.
Note that's about the same damage I can get in Ki-67's, but in those the fighters would finally have caught me.
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(fully loaded Mossie takes only about 22 minutes to reach 25k, without using WEP)
Anything over 50% fuel is just ballast. Climb rate noticeably improves.
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Nope...
It's a milkrunners dream. Yes, the cookie is overkill, but you have another choice: take the 4x500 + 2x500. With formation, that's 6 town centers dropped. A whole lotta points for very low risk in being caught. (fully loaded Mossie takes only about 22 minutes to reach 25k, without using WEP)
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2757/1stmossie.jpg)
At least two, but probably three fighters took off to intercept me. Two of them chased me several sectors, never even remotely coming close enough to see my icon.
Note that's about the same damage I can get in Ki-67's, but in those the fighters would finally have caught me.
ahh yea, thats a good point.. i just assumed cookie usage. :)
now i gotta go another milkrun sans cookie.. HOW CAN U MILKRUN WITHOUT COOKIES?!
:rofl
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Anything over 50% fuel is just ballast. Climb rate noticeably improves.
Depends on mission profile. If you bomb six different targets from altitude like I did, you need more than 50%.
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the thing is uncatchable, or uninteresting, apparently.. I did do another milkrun, with 500's only.. By the end of it, I was at 37000msl, doing 410mph well back in my own lands, with 50 mins of fuel left. Flew over most of the smpizza map, hit 5 towns (flew over 6 but didnt drop on one).. never saw an enemy con.. maybe one bar in one sector, but that was it.
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C is for Cookie.
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So, not currently having a workable setup, how potent is it? How hard to intercept?
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Im amazed how many people will up a 262 and chase a single Mossie for four or five sectors and die in the ack for the chance at one kill.
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/NMFY.png)
:D
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So, not currently having a workable setup, how potent is it? How hard to intercept?
See my earlier posting ;)
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noob question, to keep your perks all 2 drones have to land on the runway?
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C is for Cookie.
I have to ask... Why on earth is it called a "cookie?"
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Test loadout 4k cookie Large DTs and 100 fuel. I made eight rearms. After climbing to 28k I would drop tanks regardless of how much fuel was remaining but fuel remaining was usually only between 23 and 43 gallons depending on whether I used WEP in the climb. I usually had 50-60 miles to accelerate before dropping. After dropping I would accelerate to 400 in a dive to 27k. Speed might drop to 397 after level and would be higher with less fuel onboard.
Climb from 0.8k to 28k takes about 24 minutes. Calibration should be for 360-62 mph at 28k. Time remaining varied according to how much WEP I used accelerating away from the drop. Range remaining exceeded 400 miles. This might be why you wont see this airplane on small maps (not enabled).
On my last landing I saw a con popup from ground clutter at the base to the north of my position. Clearly he was trying to intercept me but chose the wrong base. I had been rearming further away but I was toying with turn-around times to see what I could get away with. When he came south I could see it was a 262 and when he got to 1.5k range I towered. He augered. :rofl
If I had stayed on my original course of action he never would have gotten close and probably would have died in asset ack.
A P-51D did try to intercept me also (earlier). He had an excellent line but he was about 14k too low. In trying to climb to me he never got within icon range. If you stay at 28k I doubt even a 109K4 could launch and catch you but you cant play dumb about it.
I think the Arados are better worth the perks.
Sortie damage was 56k and damage points exceeded 3 million.
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noob question, to keep your perks all 2 drones have to land on the runway?
I think they just need to be alive when your plane lands safely.
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I think they just need to be alive when your plane lands safely.
This is true. The drones need to be with you when you land. They don't need to be on the runway to keep the perks.
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It's 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses... HIT IT. :aok
You got it Elwood.
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You got it Elwood.
i did NOT expect any more replies to that post :rofl <S>