Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wotan on December 03, 2001, 07:30:00 AM
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The Ar 234 has 82 kills and has been killed 167 times.
234 is the only perk bomber very hard to catch but imho reducing its perk value would not be a good idea. Bomber perks are easy to get and we only have 1 plane to spend umm on.
The F4U-1C has 5158 kills and has been killed 2456 times.
Best perk value in the game. HTC made great choice by perking this plane. Its well worth 8 perks.
The F4U-4 has 467 kills and has been killed 192 times.
I dont fly blue planes and I've only engaged 1 once in the main and I killed iy. I was in a 262 though and the guy just tried to keep hoing me. So I shoved 3cm of rheinmetal down his throat and laughed my arse off as he exploded. However the laughter soon ended when I spotted a lo ju88 dove and colided with the bastard at 600 mph. :( I think its perk value is about right and its use is right inline with the ta-152 and temp.
The Ta 152H has 541 kills and has been killed 201 times.
Great perk value at 30 however its a tough plane to fly in the main if you dont keep disciplined. The perk value keeps it presence rare in the main like it should be.
The Tempest has 701 kills and has been killed 176 times.
Best plane in the main imho. Again the perk value is enough to keep it rare and by its k/d alone its perk value is justified.
The Me 262 has 1439 kills and has been killed 222 times.
Imho its too cheap I would up to 250 perks. However its use is relatively rare and it takes a little work to kill an alert fighter but 1 hit kills umm easy.
I think the perk system has shown its value in keeping rare and unbalancing planes from having too great an impact on the main.
As for the 109g10, fw190d9, p51d, and the La7 being perked. well ....
The Fw 190D-9 has 10123 kills and has been killed 5819 times.
The Bf 109G-10 has 10321 kills and has been killed 8569 times.
I personally fly both of these planes alot in the main and would have no problem paying 8 perks for them.
The P-51D has 22974 kills and has been killed 24295 times.
The La-7 has 18264 kills and has been killed 13459 times.
I almost cant believe those p51 scores because I have flown the p51 and its avery capable aircraft for the main more so then the 190d9. Must be all the newbies flying it.
The la7 however is a great plane and has a good size impact on the main but nowhere near chog status.
Again both these planes at an 8 point perk value is well within the reach of anyone.
However looking at the chog states before and after its perk its seems a more experienced type of pilot has stuck with it. While its use has dropped its k/d has climbed. No doudt that would happen with the d9, g10, p51d, and la7.
I think any arguement for them to be perked is premature at this point. There just isnt enough planes in the main as of yet to perk any more. However should the early planeset get filled out then I think perking these planes at 8 would be a great idea.
The Spitfire Mk IX has 29686 kills and has been killed 30407 times.
The N1K2 has 19225 kills and has been killed 16960 times.
The nik2 aint what she was but its still a good plane. I flew in tod last frame we went 14 and 4 against f6fs with alt. They outnumbered us 2 to 1. However under no circumstances perk it its a great plane to kill for getting perks. As much as I am dismayed at the p51d scores I cant believe the nik2 has done as well as it did. Over the past 4 or so tours I have maintained a min of 2 to 1 against it. Its easy to kill.
The spit ix however has been trumped up to "uber" status so every "fast food" killer jumps in one. I have no prob with spits 1 or 2 to 1 but throw in a third or forth it gets hairy. But its a great main plane probrably the best overall. Perk it? hell no most spit pilots like 51d pilots dunno what the hell they are doin most of the time.
But theres those few you run into that hand you your arse that makes you wonder wtf these other fools are doing.
well my .2cents......
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
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The Fw 190A-5 has 5870 kills and has been killed 3642 times.
PERK THE 190A5!
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I like your perk system Wotan, but then I like more variety, personally. I would even like to see more Tempests etc. in the MA. I would add an 8 point perk for the 51D though just to keep the scale even (better vis and 2 extra .50s). With a fuller planeset the average could be set in 1943 with light perks for 1944/45, heavy perks for late 45, and good perk earning potential for 1940-1943 era aircraft.
Charon
Bring the Martin Baltimore to Aces High!
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]
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Charon,
Based on the figures already presented the 51D already has less than a 1:1 ratio. Upon what do you base your request for perking it????
It has fairly weak guns (in this game) that require a prolonged burst to cause significant damage, it is a LOUSY turn fighter, poor climb rate and hasn't been the fastest plane at any alt for some time. What is it that makes this qualify for perking?!?!?!
(http://www.13thtas.com/mav13sig.jpg)
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i didnt say perk it out right but I was in a p51 squad. flown within its ideal envelope I dont see how its k/d is so lo.
I only assume its being used by a lot of folks who dunnae who to fly it.
Wotan has 45 kills and has been killed 11 times against the P-51D.
There no reason today to perk it. Especially since there is limited option fer p51 folks.
But if there is any hope of a more "complete" early war plane set then what sense would it be to model early ponies if no one will fly umm. The p51b is a rare thing in the main now.
We heard the samething from chog folks who said look at its kd. there are planes faster can turn better but I think a lot of folks would agree it made the main better.
The 51 is nowhere near the "chog class" and on its own theres no need to perk. As part of a set of planes to be perked (109g10, 190d9, la7 and p51) if and when the early birds come to ah I think its fair.
Now the folks who will come in here and say "we should fly what we want" well thats irrelevant. You dont get to fly what ever you want now unless you spend perks. All that I'm saying is that if by expanding it ,as shown by the chog, we get more diverse planes through out the entire war then I'm for it.
Right now this isnt the case.
It beats the hell of a rps. Especially because we will arguing till the cows come home about when to introduce certain planes.
Right now if you wanna a tempest you dont have to wait 28 days to get one (unless you suck and it takes 3 weeks to get 70 perks).
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can agree with most but the fu4-4 is overperked no doubt about it should be 30.
ta-152 20 rest i dont care about looks ok.
guess we dont need more perk planes now, let it be as it is :)
airgaurd
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Hmmmm... I haven't heard HTC say that the perk system is intended to replace or augment the RPS in any way. To say adjusting the perk system will help avoid an RPS is a mistatement.
What will drive an RPS? More planes. Not because it means we can match eras more easily, but rather because the game can only handle a fixed amount of aircraft. This has been shown in Warbirds 2.x and 3... and I believe I've heard HT say the same about HT. I don't know if its 64 planes in one arena or 128.... but its in there somewhere. The number is fixed.
<sarcasm>Warbirds 3 doesn't officially have a limit on how many different planes an arena can have, they simply choose to keep that number below 64 so that computers don't lock up. :rolleyes: </sarcasm>
The CHOG was perked because of usage. The rest were perked because there was an understood performance advantage. So far, no other planes currently in the MA fit into those categories.
AKDejaVu
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LA7 should be perked not for K/D but for way how those "pigs" flying LA7
90% of LA7 flying like HO, run, turn HO, run, turn HO
5% flying like HO run run run to mama
5% are dammned good pilots in airplane whitch turn good(better that tempest) acceleration is pretty fast, top speed is one of the best, climb rate is excelent under 10k and good above, well and cannons. 2 SHVaKS or 3 DB(forgot name) 400 or more bullets...
and 50% less fuel consumption then Yak9U :D
may be 5 perks ?
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: EagleC ]
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: EagleC ]
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i never said ht was trying to augment an rps.
I was adressing folks who would prefer one.
The rest was my opinion.
Maybe I'll reread to see if I wrote that 'cause I don't remember doing so.
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I was adressing folks who would prefer one.
Hmmm... seems we'd need more planes before anyone gets any kind of RPS... seeing as how we don't have enough to really focus on any one era right now.
By then, we'll need an RPS anyways... or something similar. You can't endlessly add aircraft to the MA. At some point HTC will have to decide what is to be in there and what isn't. The perk system will not help them out of that quandry.
And it doesn't adress the people who want an RPS either. There are still dominant aircraft in the MA. Many people don't like that as an option.... throttled or not.
I like the current perk system. I see you're trying to defend it. What I don't believe is that it actually resolves much of what you suggest it does. I only believe it keeps aircraft from overunning the MA. They are all still dominant.
AKDejaVu
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But if there is any hope of a more "complete" early war plane set then what sense would it be to model early ponies if no one will fly umm. The p51b is a rare thing in the main now.
I think any arguement for them to be perked is premature at this point. There just isnt enough planes in the main as of yet to perk any more. However should the early planeset get filled out then I think perking these planes at 8 would be a great idea.
I must be missing something in each one of my posts where I have stated my position I have also said that we have to few planes currently for either a wb type rps or a perk based rps.
Hmmm... seems we'd need more planes before anyone gets any kind of RPS... seeing as how we don't have enough to really focus on any one era right now.
I was not aware that ht had said the arena was limited to 64(128) planes (I assume you mean types of aircraft). That being the case either we will end up with an rps of some sort or seperate arenas.
As for liking the perk system now I do believe its kept the arena from being over run by dominant aircraft but it also (152) has kept aircraft that were rare some what so.
What ever the future brings the current perk system was a good idea.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
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I must be missing something in each one of my posts where I have stated my position I have also said that we have to few planes currently for either a wb type rps or a perk based rps
You are definately missing something very obvious. How many more planes do you think the arena can handle right now? It is currently at 57(58?). "More filled out" means exceding the max number of different aircraft in the MA. That means RPS regardless. The point is moot.
If we had an endless supply of aircraft in the MA.. you'd have a point to an extent. We are not going anywhere near that so it doesn't really matter. And, once again, it does not adress the fact that there will STILL be dominating planes in the MA (most wanting an RPS hate the idea of this).
As for liking the perk system now I do believe its kept the arena from being over run by dominant aircraft but it also (152) has kept aircraft that were rare some what so.
The 152 is dominating in its own area. If you've encountered a P-51D over 30k you'd know this for sure... as would the hapless pony driver. Its potential for destruction just doesn't fit in well with the current MA. Though, I do believe that if it were unperked, things would go very wrong very fast on the LW side of the house.
And... once again... the fatal flaw of the perk system is that it doesn't pit perk vs perk. It pits perk vs much lesser plane. That is the main complaint of RPS supporters. I can see their point. The fact that it doesn't happen often simply makes it tollerable.
AKDejaVu
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Granted I am seeing some of the same aircraft a lot but for the most part I think there is more diversity in aircraft these days in the MA. It surprised me that the P38 was in my top 5 most killed aircraft. I hadn’t seen that before.
As far as perks go I’m a cheap bastard anyway and don’t wanna pay a dime for any of them. The only perk that I don’t like is the F4U-4. I think this aircraft is greatly overpriced. In my opinion it is only slightly better than the P51D. Hell even the C-hog can arguably be stated as a better aircraft for the firepower alone. I saw a response that it should be placed around 30, actually, I think it should probably be more around 20, maybe even 15, if not even 10.
As far as the K/D of the P51D it most definitely has to do with new flyers and/or inexperience in the bird. It is a very capable killer of just about anything when flown properly. No I do not want it perked. If we are comparing birds though, to have the F4U-4 perked at 60 and the P51D at nothing is a huge discrepancy for very little difference in performance.
Actually if you take the P51D, LA7, 109G10, 190D9 and leave them un-perked having the F4U-4 out there with the Tempest is an error in my opinion. It should be at least cheap and more affordable. As for the 262, my experience has been as long as your keeping an eye out the damn thing is too fast and cant turn for watermelon to be able to get a decent gun solution. Should it be more expensive? I really don’t have an opinion on it. Seems fine the way it is now.
Zippatuh
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quote:
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I must be missing something in each one of my posts where I have stated my position I have also said that we have to few planes currently for either a wb type rps or a perk based rps
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You are definately missing something very obvious. How many more planes do you think the arena can handle right now? It is currently at 57(58?). "More filled out" means exceding the max number of different aircraft in the MA. That means RPS regardless. The point is moot.
what im missing why you kept over looking what I've said to suit your own point.
I've said from the begginning that we dont have enough planes.
But you begin a post
Hmmm... seems we'd need more planes before anyone gets any kind of RPS... seeing as how we don't have enough to really focus on any one era right now.
you also say
Hmmmm... I haven't heard HTC say that the perk system is intended to replace or augment the RPS in any way. To say adjusting the perk system will help avoid an RPS is a mistatement.
Which has nothing to with me stating my opinion. I read numerous threads where the perk vrs rps was discussed on this board. Even Fdski's idea of a rolling perk set.
Not once have I read where HT has said that there a limit be it 64 128 or 256 on the number of aircraft available to one arena.
but besides that I also said
I was not aware that ht had said the arena was limited to 64(128) planes (I assume you mean types of aircraft). That being the case either we will end up with an rps of some sort or seperate arenas.
I think your typin to type. Which one of you Aks is the lawyer I'm sure they told ya once the "devils in the details" but I think ya gotta read umm.
I have made no remark regarding whether or not the 152 is a good plane or not I know its a good plane I fly it my squad flies it. But its limited to what in can do in the main. Which is fine. but the fact that it really is about as "rare" as you can get which imho justifies it being perked.
as for perk vrs perk even in an rps I would imagine the really late war stuff not getting more then 2 days per tour (i would think 1) so at the most you get 24 days a year to fly um. couple that with the inevitable arguement over "introduction" dates but thats irrelevant.
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I think one thing that is going on here is that you (deja and wotan) were using the word dominating to mean different things earlier in the thread. Wotan seemed (I could be wrong) to be using dominating in relation to the frequency the plane was appearing while Deja was using dominating in terms of the ability of the aircraft. I could have confused myself while reading though. ;)
Perking keeps the high-performance AC to a reasonable number (and keeps a marginal AC from being overused, i.e. the CHog), at least that's what it is intended to do. As Lazs says, perking doesn't bring parity. The Me262 is still out there shooting at slower planes, it's just not out there in massive numbers. Perking just restricts use, it doesn't promote fairness.
If the limit is 64, Deja's right, we'll need a RPS. If it's 128, then it'll be awhile before we need that RPS. (I'm hoping it's 128 for the MA.)
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All in all, the top and bottom of the scale seem to be the planes of choice. I will fly the C-hog a bit...but my tendancy to T&B the thing makes it a forgone loss...but lot of fun to jabo in. I flew the tempest a bit early on and its an unbeatable plane...at least I've never lost one (or even been pinged in it). I haven't flown the 262 since the 1st day of release but eventually will get around to it. My only venture out in a 152 ended up poorly...got bounced by fester in an La-5 at 3,000 ft :(.
As for the other rides...all have there weak points. No need to perk anything else IMO. The 109G10 is easily the toughest nut to crack if well flown...but it's not an uber plane. The La-7 is a close 2nd but is not a hard kill unless it's flown to its edge.
As for the spit's and nikki's they are deadly in swarms...and awful tough with E & alt.
To me the F6F, P51b, and la-5 are the "hidden gems" in the game and the yak is actually the most cabable plane. I'd like to see the perk rides expanded by adding the more exotic varients....20mm x 4 stang...P47M...couple of the low production late war rice rockets etc....again just my 2 cents.
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As for liking the perk system now I do believe its kept the arena from being over run by dominant aircraft but it also (152) has kept aircraft that were rare some what so.
dominant aircraft were to include temp, 262
rare were to include 152 234 f4u-4 chog
sorry for the confusion......
Dominating also refers to competent pilots flying the planes. We all know that its the pilot (or I hope so that makes a plane ultimately dominant) but the aircraft performance is a big part of that.
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Why arbitrarily choose 8 perkies as the minimum? You could make the P-51D (or SpitIX, or G-10) a mere 1 perky.
It would make no difference at all for an experienced pilot, but it would be a milestone of achivement for a newbie. They like that.
And it would be a lot of fun to go cruising in a "B" and spring some surprises on people :)
It would be very interesting to see what just one solitary perk point could do to the K/D figures for a month.
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The B model has been my pony of choice for awhile...I feel it T&B's better at lower alts were I tend to end up. The visability is somewhat worse but I really dont feel that I lose much on hitting power. The 4x.50's seem to pack about the same punch...I usually need a couple decent bursts either way.
added at edit
Seeker after dwelling on it...I'd be curious as well. Maybe "perking" all rides above a median level...even if it's a point or two would be interesting.
I'd say somethin like this:
G10 1 point
D9 1 point
51D 1 point
la-7 2 points
spitIX 2 points
nikki 2 points
I don't know how much it would effect use. i'm mixed on the nikki...I got bounced by 4 ponies a few days back...killed 3 and augered the last...BUT...also have had my prettythang handed to me a few times in fair fights. The FM changes have definately made it a better plane IMO. It's still the best T&B plane in the game but not as bad a UFO anymore. It's still the toughest plane to counter if you get caught by one, but it's a much fairer fight.
Perking the spitty is a tough call since its a 43 plane...hard to justify.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: humble ]
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Based on the figures already presented the 51D already has less than a 1:1 ratio. Upon what do you base your request for perking it????
Mavrick
Wotan and Zippatuh pretty much cover my reason why. In general, IMO, there are two tiers of aircraft in AH (except for the late 1945 series that are highly perked and rarely seen): 109G10, 190D9, P-51D/B, LA-7, the Yaks, F4U D/C -- then there are the rest. These planes have the speed and acceleration needed to get a kill or get out of trouble that is a notable plateau above the rest of the competition and without the disabilities found in a Typhoon, for example. They also tend to have earlier versions that are kind of pointless right now (my main argument for a light perk on the 51D -- why the hell have a b model anyway now?). I like variety a lot, but I'm not going play target for 90 percent of the current arena flying some combination of the top tier aircraft.
Also, why bother adding any new plane earlier than the existing top tier? Scenarios are great, but I will miss this one (bought a new house this month so no time), and will have to wait I don't know how many months for the next one. And I don't know when HTC will sort out a working CT with a functional strat. I would like to see a Spit XVI LF/E added (more than a 14 even) and would have no trouble getting a realistic Spit IX F/B and having the 16 be an 8-point perk. By the same token, if they add a P-51H I wouldn't mind there being a lower perk value (along with all the other monster tier aircraft)so that you would see one more than 2-3 times a tour.
For what I enjoy in gaming (variety, and the chance to pit real-world advesaries from all periods of the War) an enhaced perk set, rolling perk set or rolling plane set are the only real solutions that I can see. Or, give me a working CT (reasonable strat, etc.) that will attact reasonable numbers and I wouldn't care less about an MA with 90 percent of the planes flown representing less than a third or so of those availiable.
Just my opinion and nothing more, just like yours.
Charon
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]
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Charon,
I find very little difference between D&B ponies. I fly the B more often than the D. Recently I've been flying the F6 and had no problem with any other plane type ( couple of pilot types hammer my prettythang though :)).
Truthfully, any of the planes can be flown competitively....even in the MA. It's really a question of mindset/useage. I rarely land a sortie, but thats more a question of personal choice. I'll get in deep and eventually get nailed...or run out of gas (F6 in particular). I've found the 109F is actually a nice ride in the MA. The spitV is the preffered ride of choice for many of the better spit drivers as well.
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There is a basic flaw with the Perk System.
Pilots have the impression that those with the most perk points are the best pilots, when in fact this is not the case. Those with the most perk points are those who fly the most, not necessarily the best pilots.
A pilot with only a little time to fly each week, and one paying the exact same fee as everyone else, may not have enough time to accumulate perk points. Another pilot with tons of time may be able to accumulate tons of perk points in spite of being shot down hundreds of times. The pilot with only a limited time to fly could easily be the better pilot, but the reward goes to the other pilot with time on his hands.
Basically, the system as it now works punishes those with a limited time to fly, and rewards those with a lot of time to fly. It does not reward good pilots over bad ones.
Considering the fact that we all pay the same to fly Aces High, this just isn't a very fair system. I would recommend a different system where each monthly tour of duty all pilots were awared say 50 points. They would have the use of these points during that month to purchase perk planes, and could not accumulate these points from month to month.
Using the example of 50 points, the most valuable perk planes should cost 50 points while others cost less etc. This way a pilot could keep his perk plane for as long as he was good enough to keep it. If your perk ride is a 262 then you get one chance at it, and you can keep it for as long as you live. If you die, you can try it again next month. The C hog at about 8 points would allow you many more chances.
This method allows pilots with little available time to fly perk planes just as much as those with more time available. It, however, rewards only the good pilots by allowing them to keep the plane. The bad pilots will loose their perk rides quickly.
For Hitech Creations this would be a major plus. Many new pilots complain about not being able to fly these perk rides, and often look at other flight sims. Other pilots with limited flying time are wondering if it's worth the monthly fee when they don't get the chance to fly the same planes as other pilots who simply have more time to accumulate points.
Reward the pilots who can stay alive in these perks, not just those with time on their hands. Give everyone the same chance, but reward the best.
Ranger Bob
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So far HTC have used perks to limit the usage of historically rare aircraft. It seems to have worked and I hope they stick with that. Using perks to limit very common mid-war aircraft would be a bad move.
Some planes will always be more popular than others for reasons other than their capabilities.
Allied planes are always going to be more popular than Axis planes, regardless of the quality of the aircraft. There are a lot of people who find it distasteful to fly planes with the same name and looks as those used by the barbaric Axis governments of WWII. I don't agree with this feeling, but it is a fact of life.
Looks play a part too. Spitfire and Mustang are arguably the two best-looking prop aircraft in history. Of course they are going to be popular.
Trying to equalize popularity with perks is just silly. It's like trying to make toejam sandwiches sell as well as filet mignon by inflating the price of filet mignon. There are damn good reasons that filet mignon should be more popular.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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because you fly more then others doesn't mean you'll have alot of perk points.
Thats a misconception.
12 kills in p51d vrs 12 kills in 205 same time online the 205 guy could end up with a toejame load depending on what plane they killed.
I have runs in 109g2 109g6 and 205 all in the 40s and a bunch of different times.
My squadie has had killer perk runs in a 205
Here a quote from our squad bbs (hope he dont mind, name withheld to to proctect him from the typical head hunters)
Just when I thought it was my worst night in weaks, I manage 10 kills in one sortie, all were N1K2-J's, I landed on the hot strip outa ammo, got 5 assists too, love those Berada 12.7mm's. Then I went to see what I got, MAN O MAN 50 freaking ftr perks! I love My 205
This squaddie even had a run of 54.99 perks in a gv. (no gv perks vehicles yet)
and he could give a crap about flying perk planes.
How long do you think it took to get them 1o kills.
My squaddies get runs of 20-25 easily, my highest was a few tours ago at 51.
Now of course these are way above average. I usually get 9 - 12 per sortie.
I lost numerous 262s (12 maybe) to landing accidents/compression etc. I only have 4 recorded as deaths I had 3500 perks when the 262 was introduced. I still have over 2100.
Another squaddie resubbed this tour earns enough fer a 262 every other day.
Time online should only mean you should have a crapload if you fly and kill the right plane.
Eny value is where perks are at.
Even a novice flying a spit can earn 8 perks in 3-4 sorties.
Anyway having fun is the important thing but if you really wanna fly a perk plane you dont have to spend 170 hrs online to get it.
edit
spitfires are ugly as all heck.........mustang looks ok but for pour sexy beauty nothing beets a tank.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
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i like the idea of perking most of the latewar planes if not all of them to some value...it gives you more incentive to get home in 1 piece
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Wotan it's pretty simple.
Assuming player A and player B earn the same amount of perks per hour, if player A plays twice as much as player B, he has twice the perks and can take twice the number of sorties in perk planes.
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Wotan it's pretty simple.
Assuming player A and player B earn the same amount of perks per hour, if player A plays twice as much as player B, he has twice the perks and can take twice the number of sorties in perk planes.
but if you have 2000 or 1000 wtf does 8 point perk plane mean to ya?
then guy who flew twice as much can still fly his perk twice as much but it doesn't stop the other guy from flying his.
The potential to earn perks isnt linked just to tine online that bs.
if you have 10 hours a month to fly and you do it a 205 you can earn way more perks then a guy with 30 hours online flying a niki even if the niki guy gets more kills.
If you prefer to fly a spit or niki or 51 well great. But if you really wanna a perk plane its not impossible if you fly planes with a hi eny value.
The effect of perk planes on the main are minimal any way. And if that is by design then so what if everyone doesn't get to fly 1.
None of its fair
I could get 3 kills vulchin in a 109f and you kill 3 la7s in a tough nail biter in your 51 and I get twice the perks is that fair.
so even though time online may increase my overall stockpile of perks it does nothing to the guy who flies 10 hours a week from earning his perks or atleast a good chunk of umm.
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Whatever. Assuming the pilots have identical behavior EXCEPT for time online, the guy with more time online gets more perkies. Period.
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IMO, perk values should be;
262 = 200 p
Temp = 30 p
152 = 20 p
LA7 = 15 p
F4U1C = 10 p
F4U-4 = 10 p
109G-10 = 5 p
190D-9 = 5 p
234 = 50 p
Ostwind = 2 p
Comments:
* Most perk planes are too rare even though folks are still spending stock-piled perks. My opinions of perk values are based on game-play over historical war entry dates.
LA-7, I hate this plane when I am in another E-fighter. The LA-7 can outrun all but the jets and Temp , it can out-climb, and/or out-turn all other E-fighters.
Temp isn't much better than a Typhoon, but at least it has a chance against the LA-7.
152s aren't outstanding at anything except high alt performance.
F4U-4, rather have a Chog.
F4U-1C, still a good deal.
109G-10, Fast, #1 climber.
190D-9, Just a bit too good not to be perked.
Ostwind, what the heck else are we going to spend GV perks on?
Eskimo
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Whatever. Assuming the pilots have identical behavior EXCEPT for time online, the guy with more time online gets more perkies. Period.
Whatever. Assuming the pilots have exactly the same attributes EXCEPT for the plane they fly, pilot A (who flew a 109F) will have more than pilot B (who flew an La7). How fair is THAT? Doesn't sound very fair to me that someone who decided to fly a more challenging plane should be better rewarded.. that is just STUPID. I think we should rework the perk values so that you can get way more perks in the 1945 rides than in the 1942 ones. oh yea. Period.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
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Temp isn't much better than a Typhoon, but at least it has a chance against the LA-7.
Eskimo2, you need to go try the Tempest some more. ;) The Temp far outclasses the Typhoon in performance. The Temp climbs much better, turns better, doesn't bleed energy in turns near as much and is faster.
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bs funked theres a thing called eny value up a spit kill a niki the do it in 205.
you get way more points fer killing the niki with the 205 then the spit.
Thats how it werks.
if u fly a dhog and i fly a dhog no matter what time online is if i kill more then you period i get more perks.
Anybody arguing its hard to get perks?
My squaddie has more then me he can fly 100 152s i can only fly 70......oh thats so unfair....
but what all he flies is a g10 so if i get a g2 then even if i have less time online and less kills my perk points will rise faster then theyn would me flying a g10 with more hours online.
Its unfair i vulched a field and got 16 easy kills and you hard fouhght a 16 la7s in your p51 and i got more perks.
p51d has eny value of 18
109g2 has eny value of 40
g2 kills 51d 40/18 = 2.22
51d kills g2 18/40 = .45
now say they kill each other 10 times each same time online
g2 get 22.2 perks
p51d gets 4.5 perks
If you have a desire to fly a paticular perk plane the up a fighter with a hi eny value and go get some kills.
A nik2 has an eny value of 10
1 g2 killa niki 40/10 4 perks
so you would need to kill 10 g2s in a p51b to equal the perks of 1 g2 kiling a niki.
fair hell no ....have htc dole out welfare perks so we can hold hands skipping around the may pole like good equalitarians...
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Frost:
Eskimo2, you need to go try the Tempest some more. ;) The Temp far outclasses the Typhoon in performance. The Temp climbs much better, turns better, doesn't bleed energy in turns near as much and is faster.
Frost, your right, I do need to fly the Tempest more.
I have only flown it once. I hosed a B-17, then got a @$#!% LA-7 on my tail at D1.4. It took me 15 miles on the deck to get the separation out to 1.7
I wasn't impressed, but then again If the LA-7 is perked and not everywhere, the Temp might dominate in the speed area like it should.
eskimo
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Ok maybe not welfare perks but what about being able to give them away?
It would be nice to have a dot command “.givepoints XXX playerA”.
Zippatuh
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How about setting a maximum limit on the number of perk points someone can have? Let's say maybe 700. The people with 700+ perks wont use them anyway and they cant be traded (yet??).
Then when you get a perk plane you will be really careful. how you fight with it. And it would allow for my next suggestion to work a little better.
Next I suggest that you give a certian number of "special" perk points each time there credit card is charged the monthly fee. These "Special" Perks could ONLY be used for 1 ride at a time. So if the perk ride cost 30 perk points and you have 50 "Special" Perk points you will have 20 left as soon as you choose to take off in the 30 point ride.
The "Special" Perk points wouldnt carry over month to month they would never exceed the monthly allotment.
This would allow people who don't get to play as much a chance to fly most of the perk planes at least once a month.
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Skysix1 ]
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the problem isnt that some people have to many perks........
And the problem isnt that some folks dont have enough........
The problem is folks feel they should be able to fly one with out doing whats necessary to earn the perks.
If you really want to fly a perk plane then get in a plane with a hi eny value and kill planes with a lo eny value.
Simple as that.
A lot of folks dont give a crap about perk planes and have a ton of perk points.
If you have no desire to fly perk planes then it doesn't matter.
But theres no reason for someone to whine about how "unfair" it is that he got to fly one and I didnt.
Kill ten planes with a lo eny value with a plane with an eny value over 30 you will get your perks quickly.
You can tell who libs are.........lol
you earned to much it aint fair........
htc dole us out some welfare perks its unfair....
next you'll want universal aircraft repair coverage.....
EDIT
Ok maybe not welfare perks but what about being able to give them away?
a sort of perk plane soup kitchen? :)
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
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Perk system fine the way it is imho.
Don't whine when an unperked late war aircraft blows you out of the sky when you are flying an earlier war model. Your choice to fly it. You got what was to be expected.
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Originally posted by Wotan:
[QB]the problem isnt that some people have to many perks........
And the problem isnt that some folks dont have enough........
The problem is folks feel they should be able to fly one with out doing whats necessary to earn the perks.
If you really want to fly a perk plane then get in a plane with a hi eny value and kill planes with a lo eny value.
Simple as that.
A lot of folks dont give a crap about perk planes and have a ton of perk points.
If you have no desire to fly perk planes then it doesn't matter.
But theres no reason for someone to whine about how "unfair" it is that he got to fly one and I didnt.
Kill ten planes with a lo eny value with a plane with an eny value over 30 you will get your perks quickly.
You can tell who libs are.........lol
you earned to much it aint fair........
htc dole us out some welfare perks its unfair....
next you'll want universal aircraft repair coverage.....
EDIT
a sort of perk plane soup kitchen? :)
QB]
Well you see.... I actually have a real job. I work 50 hours a week and I drive 45 minutes each way too and from work. I have a family and basketball, hockey, and Boy scouts to go to for my son. I believe If I paid my fee I should be able to fly what I want to.
I earned my right by earning a decent living and keeping my family a good one.
This is fun relaxation for me and I could give a darn less who kills me or who I kill online.
If I had 116 hours in the month of November to spend flying Aces High I would think the perk system is fine too. I guess you earned your right to fly what you want. If you do have a full time job you sure dont have any kind of familylife.
But if you only get 5-10ish hours a month to play then the perk system really kinda sucks.
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Originally posted by Zippatuh:
Ok maybe not welfare perks but what about being able to give them away?
It would be nice to have a dot command “.givepoints XXX playerA”.
Zippatuh
I'm all for this. I'll probably never use the ones I have and none of the current perk planes has any attraction for me.
I'd cheerfully give perks to newbies that have just signed up as paying customers.
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Ok. Started out a good argument and has turned to crap.
Wotan, you’re right. If you fly the right aircraft in a limited amount of time you can build up perks. There in lies the problem. Limited time for some people. I’m sure they all want to fly that 202 to build them perks too. The response I can see is, yes they should if they want the points quick. Definition of quick in hours is probably subjective. This implies that should the player with no time want to fly a perk they should fly an aircraft they do not choose simply because of the perk value. Now they are not able to fly the perk or the aircraft they would like, wow, sounds like loads of fun to me.
To just chime in and say “it’s there if you want them who cares if there may be a sacrifice” is self centered. Especially for someone who averages what, over 100 hours? Liberal, it has nothing to do with being liberal it has everything to do with wanting to be able to have the same opportunities for the subscription price paid as someone else. Regardless of how you want to define it the system benefits whoever is online longer for spending the same amount of money.
Rangerbob for example was only on last tour for 5:30 hours. If you ask bob I’ll bet he had some fun during that time in the aircraft, non-perk of course, that he wanted. I guess he should have spent that time in a 202 or something with a low ENY that he didn’t want to fly just to gain perks. Wow, I bet that’s what he wanted. To spend 5 hours working instead of playing.
Now I think it’s a hell of an idea to chalk up the maximum perk value at the beginning of each tour, non-refundable, not transferable, or have the ability to carry the leftovers to the next tour. This way everyone who pays their subscription will start out with at least 200 perks at each tour and have the ability to fly whatever they want on at least one occasion during the tour. I don’t think that is bad thing at all.
Also giving us the ability to give perks to someone else would help a lot with this problem.
Zippatuh
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I dunno if I can buy into the perkie thing yet..
I fly pretty much one plane.. a P51D. The pony is well down the food chain now in MA operations; flown as a MA plane it's pretty much a target, and requires a fair amount of work to complete a sortie wheels down OTR and undamaged in a MA where yah can't seem to engage any one enemy without the other 300 on line hopping into the conga line; on one side or the other.
The other night, I fought like a madman, killed acks, took down a field radar, engaged multiple aircraft; survived, got three very tough kills against far more capable planes in the MA enviornment I was fighting in and got a whopping 4 pissy fargin perkies.
Yet I see guys up in 205's for field defense, scramble thru the vultchers, get 3 guys; crash and roll up 20 perkies.
I dunno.. It don't matter to me really; I enjoy flying my plane and perk points or scorecards are not what I come here for.
*sigh* But; now someone wants to perk the pony?? LOL! Yah can't kill much of anything with a P51 and earn points... yet yah wanna charge points to fly it??
I dunno man; maybe this perkie thing is a bit messed up...
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This is fun relaxation for me and I could give a darn less who kills me or who I kill online.
so why are you worried about flying a perk plane?
If you're against the perk system say so. Its in place for a reason and if you read the original post you will see it makes sure the rare planes stay rare.
I believe If I paid my fee I should be able to fly what I want to.
You paid for the use of a product that htc created. You dont own it.
I had 116 hours in the month of November to spend flying Aces High I would think the perk system is fine too. I guess you earned your right to fly what you want. If you do have a full time job you sure dont have any kind of familylife.
:rolleyes:
I werk at a electrical generating station. I work 4 days at 12 yrs a day then get three days off. The schedule then rotatates where I end up werking the week end then get 4 days off. every other month I switch shifts.
But that aint your buiness.
I earned my right by earning a decent living and keeping my family a good one.
that and $.35 you can make a phone call. It still dont entitle you to free perks. Perks are not the exclusive product of time online go reread my reply that explains how it works.
My point is that if you wanna fly a perk plane you can get perks more quickly flying planes with a hi eny value. Thats true if you fly a 205 1 hour a week and only get 1 kill a week. You still get to that perk faster then flying a plane with a lo eny value.
I would like to give perks aways as well also I think it would be a good idea as a mission planner to use my perk points to get perk planes for my missions (arados). Then who ever joins the mission uses them. But some folks would get pissed if a someone got discoed or augered in their perk mission.
What would be the reason to have a perk system if ht just gave away perks? give everyone in the main 200 perks.... is you crazy?
why not just have a "jet day" or "free perk day". With the 200 free perks would be more then a day. The perk system has kept down the use of rare planes like, I believe, it was intended. To make them "unrare" by giving free perks or rides makes no sense.
With 400 folks in the arena how many of them on the day the "welfare perk checks" come out arent going to be in temps and 262s? Its gonna be just as silly as wb jet day but worse.
Hangtime no one will take your 51 away. There aren't enough planes in ah to justify that. I only would be for it if we had a full early mid planset.
But as curly has said thats moot because there maybe a limit on the number of plane types (64?) in the main so it would mean either more then 1 arena or an rps. With a rps you'll get maybe a week to fly the p51b.
If that happens you'll hear more people say how unfair that is (i would be one) because they cant fly what they want no matter what. At least with the perk system if you really wanna fly it you can.
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
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More than anything else I was commenting on the irony of putting a 5 perk point cost on a plane that can barely produce that on an OUTSTANDING sortie.
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Originally posted by Wotan:
so why are you worried about flying a perk plane?
If you're against the perk system say so. Its in place for a reason and if you read the original post you will see it makes sure the rare planes stay rare.
I am against the perk system.
I believe having all the planes available to anyone but only limited mnumbers of the planes available at each field would work better. If a plane is not available you basically put your name on the list and when it's available you have 5 minutes(can be adjusted) to either fly it or allow your name to drop one place (just in case you don't think you'll be done with your current mission). Maybe perk points could be used as a way to bypass the system and get your ride quicker. The wait may be a while. If i spent all the time that is spent on modeling the planes, painting them, getting the flight characteristics just right, I would like to see more use out of them.
It sounds like you can fly what you want when you want to. But heck...You live on AH. It's more than just a part time job for you. It's only a Hobby for me. You basically are trying to tell me that just because I would like to try a certian ride i cannot use it because I am not a "real" AHer. If thats how it is than fine. Your part of a union arent ya?
Originally posted by Wotan:
You paid for the use of a product that htc created. You dont own it.
Well I may not own it but you are giving suggestions too arent you? Well... so am I. my ideas may not be too good from your perspective but at least I am trying to come up with something. Or am I not allowed to have a suggestion because I don't fly 116 hour a month? I mean obviously you spend more money here than most??? oooops I meant to say time. :rolleyes:
I sure do wish i had time to spend 200 hours a month sitting at a computer and another 100 a month to play online and still do all the other stuff i enjoy but I just can't. Saying i am asking for welfare is silly. I enjoy flying all the planes. I would enjoy it more if I had time to be "Skysix1 Great Ace of AH". If I spent that much time playing I had damn well better be a great ace.
Just wondering?? what do you really "earn" in AH?????
I guess I just don't like the way it's all setup. I expressed my opinion. You didn't like it. Of course I guess if I played for 100+ hours a month and a guy who was no where near my superior level shot me down from his "free perk ride" I would be pissed too. Esp since this very realistic setup shouldnt have all these "rare" planes flying around.
Why did you think WB jet day was silly? Because they tried to make a war look like a war by introducing the new stuff as it came along? It was only one day of jets. On your schedule you could have worked 12 of those hours anyway? I liked Jet Day. It was the day I would never miss. At least I knew I could fly the 262 once a month.
Good thing I wasnt hungry. this took up my whole dang lunch break :)
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I really feel that an "area" arena is a much better solution to the "fly what you like" (notice how many people "like" uber planes?) problem. and a far better solution than the idiotic perk system for getting in some important and fun early war rides.
It is easy to say that you have a choice and that if you get killed by a non perked late war plane in your mid or less war plane that it is your own fault... It's harder to come up with a fair fix for the problem. Parity, variety and action are the things I want.
lazs
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Hang, yep.
I landed a ten kill in the 51D recently and since that was unusual for me :) I decided I'd actually check to see how many perks that earned me.
I got 8.something for killing some nik, la, spit, fw and -109 types.
So, I could have earned _almost_ two rides in the -51D with a mixed 10 kill A2A sortie.
The whole perk idea... phhhttt.
Fly what you like. Like what you fly. Don't worry about what the other guy flies.
Want to limit "ubers"? Give everybody ONE of each uber at the start of a tour. Use it or not. Rearming allowed. Crash, die, land, whatever, you're done for the tour.
How do yas like that one? :D
I STILL wouldn't fly perkies. :)