Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BigJim on August 12, 2000, 10:02:00 PM
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I don't squeak alot but my patience is wearing down with this "cannons high" sim. Historical events are near impossible with the disparagy between fifies and cannons. I have flown 2 events now in allied Iron vs axis Iron and the way the game is modeled the Allies LOST WWII. I won't even go into the "porked" flight models of some these allied and axis planes (F4U-D and C are a joke), Roger Wilco HAS NEVER worked right since its inclusion in the game, the killer sheep bug is a pain in the ass, the default 25 percent fuel is not good, the last man standing rule is bogus for kills, etc etc.
All in all I am just getting tired of waiting for the fix and paying while waiting,
I am sure I will be "invited" to leave by the cheerleaders and that's fine with me but if the silent ones who feel like I do leave too maybe the "cheerleaders" won't be so happy. END OF RANT
PS was I pissed off when I wrote this YOU BET
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Allies won because they had a thing called numbers.
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Ya Know BigJim, you're right.
If the terrain editor guys hurry there may be a reason to stick around here but about the time that gets sorted out we may possibly see those surcharges drug out of the closet and dusted off.
I gets a bit harder each month to drop that check in the mail.
I am not quite fed up enough yet but hold the bus.
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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
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bigjim ive never heard you moan about things so i took your complaint seriously but im sorry i dont agree.i fly axis planes mostly and i often think allied planes kill me too easily..but i really have to admit its usually because im pissed off i was killed,but it could be the allied guns are too strong (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
take a break for a week it helps (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
hope you enjoy it again mate
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In AH the gameplay is about an individual player fighting other players in the air.
There are no killing planes by straffing them on the fields. There are no bombings of the industry. There are no permanent death to the pilots who where shot down.
Only pilots shooting each other in dogfights are considered.
By those criteria the Luftwaffe most definitely won the war.
miko--
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What exactly is wrong with the F4U flight models? They match historical flight test data pretty well. Against their historical opponents (A6M and Ki-43 plus a few others) they would do quite well. However in this arena the Corsairs have to fight the best that the world had to offer, and they don't always dominate.
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I wont debate if any particular plane or gun is too effective at destroying another plane. It seems to me, any plane that shoots another plane in AH kills it. I can accept this because to me it seems equal. Others might want more obvious differance between 50s and 20mms, no biggie to me personally. Planes with 50's tended to have more guns. (P51, 6 guns, p47 8 guns, F4U-1C 4 cannons) Any plane can kill any plane if it gets in the position to hit it.
To me, this means that to survive, I must fly for the advantage, not rely on my guns to win a fight, it must be my skill that gets it done or not.
I agree I get frustrated when I shoot another plane at the same time I get killed, and I dont get credit. More than once I have done mortal damage to a plane, only to die before he hits the ground, and I get no kill award. Doesnt seem right to me.
Killer sheep - yeah, it can suck, but I am sure it will be fixed. Not much of a problem once you are aware of it and know how to avoid it.
Roger Wilco - no problem for me and my squad, we use it all the time without problem.
25% default fuel- HUH? This is something to get mad about? Once you set a planes fuel higher, it stays that way. I dont see this as a major problem.
F4U's - Flown right they fly and fight well, but it isnt that easy, and flown poorly they are meat on the table. Seems modeled okay to me.
Dago
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My big squeak is the lackluster performance of the P-51D and the omni potence of the FW190A-5 and 109G-10 but Im the only one who thinks this......it comes with the territory and ya either find a way to enjoy it (ie live with it) or you press on.
The guns are too lethal IMO, cannon and MGs both but hey, this goes both ways so use it to your advantage (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
As far as the CheckSix event tonight all I can say is a few of the Axis guys really pulled the nik/zeke teams together. We were impressed with the *apparent* lack of teaming
on the allied side but I was there for only an hour so I dont know the whole story.
Yeager
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Sorry Funked HATE to tell you this BUT the F4U DOESNOT match its' flight data (has already been admitted by HTC) it loses waaaay too much E in turns.
Dago the fuel DOESNOT always stay where set and if the program hickup's you GO BACK TO DEFAULT which is 25 percent (and if you forget to check it you run out of fuel at the worst possible moment)
Gun lethality of fifties comparied to cannons is laughable (except on bombers which seem to have "cannon like" fifties)
anyhow I expect the "cheerleaders" to post and the "silent ones" to read nod their collective heads and see what happens (they hardly ever post cause the "cheerleaders" beat them down)
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As for gun lethality I dunno the .50's seem just about right to me, from what little gun camera footage I've seen it seems comparible. But hey I could easily be wrong (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). I would gladly take a group of .50's over a couple cannon for similar reasons as the USAAF used them, the higher ROF and muzzle velocity. For me it's simply easier to hit targets with the MG rather than cannon. Though I might be avoiding the cannon planes out of spite. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I think that we have a tendancy to forget that unlike WW2, any of us has hundred of flying hours. meaning we know what to do, what not to do, where/how to shoot.
It's not like in those report where 2 F4 goes in a flight of 10 Zekes and shot them all because they all dweebs barely able to take off.
Also, I noticed (maybe it's me) than canons are not great killer beyond 400y when I can still hit and rip a wing at 700y with .50. But I still have the 3 ping ripp wing on 50y with Niki, but I have it too with .50 hehehe
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BigJim exactly what data are you talking about? Where and when was such an admission made by HTC personnel?
As for the .50 cal vs. 20 mm whining, read Pyro's post here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002456.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002456.html)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-13-2000).]
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I've got an idea...how about you post a message about what's disappointing to you in the sim without whining like a little girl and throwing out disparaging remarks against anyone that might have differing opinion. You could write your opinions down in a reasonable fashion with some detail to back them up - like why you think the f4 flight model is hosed, or what problems your having with RW - and ask for HTC's opinion and what, if anything, they have planned to do about your 'issues'. Then you could make a somewhat informed decision about whether it's worth it to you to play anymore!
Wait...what was I thinking - that might actually get you somewhere and you wouldn't be able to squeak and moan!
SOB
BTW...I do agree with you, in that I don't like the last man standing rule. Never had a problem that I couldn't fix with RW, never seen the sheep bug, never flew a WWII aircraft so I don't know what the planes should fly like (I thought Pyro mentioned somewhere that there was a problem with E retention across the board - don't know, don't care), and of course cannons are more lethal.
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Ya gotta love when some guy sums up his remarks by basically saying that if anyone disagrees, well, they're cheerleaders.
Give me a C! Give me a U! Give me a LATER.
Guess I'm wearing a blue uniform huh Jim?
Wotevah.
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Oh, I see BigJim, you are the type the feels it is necessary to call someone names if they dont agree with you? Is that like "the one who shouts loudest must be right"?
I have never had my fuel reset all by itself.
And I fly alot.
Of course 20mm is much more lethal than 50cal. I have fired a 50cal rifle, and a 20mm anti-tank cannon in real life. The 50 cal is a hell of a round, but the 20mm is awesome.
They dont even seem close to me in size and power. I certainly would expect a big differance in the game.
Pyro has said that Buff guns have a farther reach than fighters, Buff guns being effective out to about 1.2, fighters out to about .800. It is the only chance they have. At least they dont have lazer guided otto gunners like WB did. That really sucked. It isnt really all that hard to kill a buff if you use just a little in the way of tactics.
Posting a whine does no good, it would be better if you posted about bugs in the bug forum, and send your concerns about other issues to Pyro or HT.
And as SOB says, I have never flown a F4U myself so I wont try to pretend I know how well it should retain E. I will assume you have plenty of hours in a real one to state with such conviction that its flight modeling is all wrong. I mean, heck, how else would you know unless of course you are just trying to compare HTC's Hog against another Sims hog, and of course that would be ridiculous.
respectfully,
Dago
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Guys, there are a number of problems but no sim is perfect.
Unfortunately what we are asking for is a highly complex computer program. Everyone wants all sorts of "features" but then doesn't understand the bugs that will always creep in when you try to include a lot and do it in a short amount of time.
Probably half of BigJim's post had to do with bugs. HTC has two options - fix the bugs and reissue the software (with the corresponding manditory download) or include the bug fixes witht he next rev issued.
They walk a thin line - too many bug fixes and reissues and they get labelled as unable to deliver good software and tie up servers with the downloads (which cost them $$$). If the problems are "minor" you just catch them in the next build. Obviously there are different interpretations of "minor".
The upshot is that everyone needs to understand this is very complex software written by humans who aren't perfect. Bugs will always creep in. Bugs will always be fixed - it just takes time.
HTC just delivered a really nice terrain editor and that probably took away time from fixing 1.03 and/or delivering 1.04. We can't have everything guys. The best thing is to just kick back and try to work around these things. My guess is that HTC would fix these things in a heartbeat if they had the time.
We have to get past this "I want it all and I want it now" attitude. You'll just end up frustrated since no company will deliver a perfect sim. Ever.
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Allies won because they had a thing called numbers.
Nath, are you the guy I've been hearing about that goes seal-clubbing in the training arena?
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FYI-Dago, Otto is dead in WB. They finally fixed it where it works pretty good, i.e. it will warn you that you are about to die, but that is it.
Lizking
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I agree with Ren on this, its no good getting your panties all bunched up (I not really talking about Bijim here as I haven't seen a whine from him before) but there's a steady stream of players who demand things or they threaten to quit in a theatrical 'oh the pain' type manner. How many other sims do you know that have progressed this fast and this far in a year? If HTC spent al ltheir time chasin small niggling bugs then the major updates would slip and slip and by rushing to cure a bug they might cause another or not correct the original bug properly, by waiting for larger updates with features as well it gives HTC (who are a small team) to take time and care to squash the bugs. If sayign this makes me a cheerleader then so be it but whats your alternative? Warbirds? Airwarrior? with hardly any updates in over a year with gunnery still porked or Fighter Ace II with its very relaxed realism where the sheep bug would probably be welcomed as a feature! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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anyhow I expect the "cheerleaders" to post and the "silent ones" to read nod their collective heads and see what happens (they hardly ever post cause the "cheerleaders" beat them down)
I was going to post a witty response, but I lost my pom-poms... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The quoted sentence seems to be saying "disagree and speak up and you're wrong, agree and shut up and you're right". What is the point of posting such a statement? How can anyone logically debate on this BBS (which I assume would be one of the purposes for posting here) under those conditions?
I can kill in any plane in the game- all I have to do is to learn what environment each plane best operates in and stay there.
I have no idea what "killer sheep" are, so it must not be a big problem to me.
Fuel is absolutely no problem for me, I can set it to what I like in the hangar every flight.
Cannons vs. .50's? Anything I read says 6x.50's are awesome at convergence, very much less effective out of convergence. 20mm on the other hand can do much more damage, even out of convergence.
It's a matter of taste on the "last man standing" rule. I tend to think it discourages HO's somewhat. That's my opinion. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I respect your right to disagree, and have no intention of "beating you down". I think you might be received better if you didn't take such a confrontational stance at the outset- you basically dared people to take you to task. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Kieren (edited 08-13-2000).]
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I just can't decide between the two-color short skirt with the matching pom-poms or the gold lame', skin-tight French-cut leotard without pom-poms.
So, I'll just stay home and wait this one out.
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Call me old-fashioned, but I'd definitely go with the short pleated skirt. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I get the fuel bug on occasion .
I have even seen my ammo loadouts change. I think it has something to so with just moving your mouse cursor in the hangar,or if your mouse cursor happens to be overtop of a different load out it gives you that load out. No clicking is required.
The sheep bug , Kieren ,happens after you bail out and then try to take off again. Your plane is placed with the sheep at A1.
Needless to say the ack either kills you immediately or else you can just lock up there on the runway.
I have complete confidence that HTC will fix this ,just as they have proven in the past .
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I get the fuel bug on occasion
I have never seen this bug. I do know that if you launch from a field with damaged fuel tanks.. something similar may happen... and it doesn't automatically switch back. I always launch from the hangar, so I know about it before I even try to fly.
I have even seen my ammo loadouts change. I think it has something to so with just moving your mouse cursor in the hangar,or if your mouse cursor happens to be overtop of a different load out it gives you that load out. No clicking is required.
A bug or something that needs to be full-proofed? I have a squadmate (can't say his name WABBIT] who has gone up without ammunition on a couple of different occasions. It allways resulted from him making a change in the hangar right before flight.
The sheep bug , Kieren ,happens after you bail out and then try to take off again. Your plane is placed with the sheep at A1
This bug has only happened to me once. About 2 months after I first started hearing about it. It hasn't happened since. Wonder if it has to do with me always taking off from the hangar?
As for BigJim. You need to take a prozac and repost in the morning.
I won't address the "porked flight model" accusations because I've never flown a real F4u. But I will say that there seems to be a somewhat stable equilibrium in the arena today. Its just one of the first times I've heard someone say the F4u was undermodelled.
The part of your post that irritates me is the disparaging remark on kill scoring. I submit to you... come up with a better system. Post that system here. Then watch everyone systematically tear it appart. There is no good way to score kills asside from having a committee that reviews gun-cam footage and interviews eye-witnesses. Get over it.
AKDejaVu
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heheheh I guess you cheerleaders don't like being identified, but never the less the outcome is the same and it is all going as I said it would, if anyone DARES complain then here come the stormtroopers, claiming the poster is unintellegent, uninformed, a lousy whiner, etc etc etc THEN you wonder why some guys don't post they just leave the game hell if I had the wonderful self image of SOB I would the friggin President of the country, he seems to know ALL the answers the only thing I can't seem to understand is why HIS name is not amoung the producers, but he is not only one on the list and some have yet to post their flame but they will, to those of you that heard me for what I said thanks for the kind words, to the flamers "ask not for whom the bell tolls"
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Geeze BJ, still pissed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Y
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Wow BigJim... I guess posting "This is the way it is and anyone that responds against it is an idiot" and then accusing people of driving off anyone that complains is a bit silly.
If you want a valid discussion on the issues that you feel are important, its best not to insult everyone before they even have a chance to respond.
The old addage applies "If you think everyone else is an ass... its not everyone else".
AKDejaVu
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I didn't read all those threads, but I'll give my opinion..
I don't see anything wrong with fifties, you get as many kills with those as with cannons.
When fifties were even weaker, I did few test flights in P-51 and it surely weren't hard to kill 6 per flight!
One burst at the enemy and he was in pieces.
People were complaining sooo much about that how inneffective fifties were, but I did not see anything wrong even with two fifties after 4 others had ran out of ammo.
..and to refresh this older data, last time when I were testing AH, I flew many flights in P47 and guns were fine, only thing that I found distracting was that dispersion seemed greater than before, otherwise kills came on one burst basis.
Honestly I think that fifties disperses too much... (But I really don't know how much real fifties disperses, so I won't go arque with that)
german MG131 is weaker than US fifties (what I've read on this forum according to FPS etc.), but I don't hesitate to continue hunting with twin MG131s only, because those can knock out a plane with one or two bursts.
What can I tell about this?
People who don't know how to shoot complains about ineffectiveness.
IMHO, guns are better than ever in AH now (if we exclude A/G issues and talk purely about A/A effectiveness)
I'll include this message because I've seen this happen in other threads already:
Only reply to this post if its about the post itself, not just because of me. (this is specially meant for you Thunder)
[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 08-13-2000).]
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Yep...I am pretty friggin' impressive - 'bout time somebody noticed! Thanks BJ! To anyone wanting to help fund the SOB for Pres in 2000, send funds to FDB headquarters on Shiner Hill. I promise to get federal funding for Aces High and a free beer pension plan for any player with 5 years in!
To the point...BJ, I don't begrudge you your opinions, your post just screams out "Hey, here's what I think dammit, and if you don't agree you must be an prettythang kissin' yes man!". Good luck in your quest for perfection...I just happen to think it's already marching ahead of my expectations.
SOB
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Originally posted by funked:
BigJim exactly what data are you talking about? Where and when was such an admission made by HTC personnel?
As for the .50 cal vs. 20 mm whining, read Pyro's post here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002456.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002456.html)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-13-2000).]
Funked,
Thanks a BUNCH guy for posting this. I had missed it and with all the past posts on the bbs would never have found it.
The photo of the ammo that Pyro posted in that same thread TOTALLY answers the question regarding ammo leathality differences between the LW 20mm and the Hispano's. The size of the casing tells the whole story. The larger case holds more powder. More powder = more velocity for the same size / weight projectile. More velocity means more lethality / penetration and FLATTER trajectory with a longer range. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
The post later in the thread with the comments by Staff Officers directly involved in the quandry during WW2 was simply OUTSTANDING!!! THANK YOU Pyro!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I will now back off commenting on differences between the .50 cal and the 20mm. (although I still have a VERY healthy real world experiance respect for the .50 cal.) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Pyro, those 2 posts you made, the photo and the comments I just addressed, need to be reposted periodically when this issue comes up again. (and we know it will) Those 2 posts answer ALOT of questions for those who are new to the controversy.
The comment that one 20mm hispano is equal to 2 and a half .50's in damage and lethality is very telling. Having 4 20m's is a trully awesome amount of fire power. Please put me down for the 20mm armed 51 too!
Salute! Pyro for the restraint you have demonstrated after seeing some of these amaturish opinions that are in quite a lot of these bbs threads. You don't get half the credit you deserve bud! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'll buy you a beer anyday.
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/mav13.jpg)
No Mercy Asked, None Given, Just pass the ammo
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 08-13-2000).]
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Originally posted by BigJim:
All in all I am just getting tired of waiting for the fix and paying while waiting,
I am sure I will be "invited" to leave by the cheerleaders and that's fine with me but if the silent ones who feel like I do leave too maybe the "cheerleaders" won't be so happy. END OF RANT
PS was I pissed off when I wrote this YOU BET
Jim,
I'll speak only for myself here. It seems to me that when a guy makes a post like that one, he is hanging out a one-link chain for every one to tug on.
As to the issues you raised, there are indeed some valid points. I am sympathetic to almost all of them.
I've been killed by the "mad sheep of A1" several times (but I didn't let it ruin my night). I also read or heard HT say they had the bug nailed down and just hadn't had time to implement the fix. So, I figure maybe next version; as I said, it causes me no loss of sleep.
I wonder about some parts of the flight model too. Why do some planes seem to be unable to do a continuous 60 degree bank, 2G level turn? Why can some planes flop around like a demented trout on amphetamines for 45 seconds, slipping and sliding through the air without any apparent loss of energy and then chase you down after you blow by at 350 mph?
Here's the difference though. I don't feel like HTC is trying to defraud me or bilk me.
I understand that this is a work in progress and a young one at that. I know AH is not a destination but a journey...the scenery will always be changing.
In the balance, I find my cost/value assessment is excellent.
Therefore, I look at HTC as my friends although I have never seen one of them in the flesh. They like what I like; online WW2 ACM. They have the talent I lack to program this stuff. I get to go over to "Hi-Tech's House" and play every nite and I enjoy it.
So why would I ever be angry at them?
I think they are doing the best that they can with the resources they have.
Over 1000 critics, telling them "add this plane", "fix this FM", "hey, give us a terrain editor", "where are the ships?", "check out this bug".
I guess I'm just patient. I KNOW it's not perfect but I still enjoy it. I also feel they are working to improve it every day.
So, I guess because I don't get angry with them and I don't post antagonistically on the board, that makes me a "cheerleader".
Well, OK. If showing a little respect for the guys that work so hard on my hobby is "cheerleading"... Rah! Rah! Rah! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
All of us will stay or go depending on how we evaluate the cost/benefit relationship, particularly vis-a-vis other options that are available to us.
I hope you stay. I don't control that however; you do.
I still don't see what being accusatory or antagonistic will gain for any of us.
Just my .02
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Allies won because they had a thing called numbers.
Although your record is impressive, your arrogance is quite excessive, and when the day's tallies were scored,
one Allied dweeb's kill was just as good as your many more. (C) -- I are Dweeb (me)
- Jig
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After spending too much time reading posts on AGW and now AH BB, one thing is obvious.
There will always be plenty of guys complaining that 1)Their plane of choice isnt a great as they want it to be 2)Any plane that kills them is obviously overmodeled.
All they want is a plane with the speed of a 262, turns inside a Zero, takes damage like a panzer and has 4 rapid firing 75mm cannnons out there on the wings. Anything less is undermodeled.
The enemys plane should turn like a B17 without ailerons, fly at the speed of a panzer, have 2 Daisy bb guns on the wings and disintegrate if tracers pass near them.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously, this game has already passed long established sims in many areas, and to nit pick the game seems kinda unneeded.
Improvements come at an amazing rate in my opinion. Flight modeling seem pretty well done, I am sure there is always room for improvement, but that should take the form of striving for matching reality, not just what some people want out of the flight modeling.
If anyone is really unhappy with the game, they should take a break and see if they can find something better. I dont think they will, but its worth a try.
Dago
I am not a cheerleader, I am an Athletic ah....never mind
[This message has been edited by Dago (edited 08-13-2000).]
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Mav your post was great and I read the thread with the ammo pictures in it, but it does not address the issue I raised regarding historic events. The game being what it is, and the way we fly it is dumb to try and pit fifty cal armed ONLY planes vs heavy cannon armed planes IN THIS GAME. I just did the SEA with 38's vs Zekes and of course the Zekes while flying quite well fell like leafs in the wind (I can't see where it was much fun for the Zeke drivers but maybe some did like it). Frankly with a few NOTABLE acceptions, most of the "hotshot" pilots fly a fast, manuverable, cannon armed, plane and I don't blame them for that and in the MA that is fine. The historcal arena however is a different story and with the present game I don't think we will ever get close to a "historical" event. The F4U-D with 6 fifties in this game is just a target drone in most players hands, there are a few who can do well with it but most cannot, the same plane armed with cannons is the "squeak" of the day for most people with countless whines about it, so it points out one simple truth "if ya want to play AH you better get a cannon armed plane". The other things I posted about are real BUGS but they have been there for awhile (the sheep thing just drives me nuts I always forget about it and wind up dead or captured everytime) I know it comes down to choices on the producers part, but in the "heat of battle" sometimes the prospective gets lost. I said what I said about "cheerleaders" because I KNEW that instantly there would be guys jumping in
telling me I am all wet etc etc...and that was NOT going to help me with how I felt at the moment I wrote the post, so I just cut em off at the pass (mostly for my own feelings at the time) Anyhow I have said my piece and will evaluate where I am and not what others want to do, but rather what I want and whether I am getting the enjoyment I want or not
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Hey cheerleaders.
The Hispano in this game was changed signifigantly after that post was made. Picture or not.
Maybe pointing out apperant problems to HTC and sticking it out when cheerleaders battle for the status quo is worth it. Sure gets ya lumps though.
BigJim, if you have numbers or anologies to support your grievences I will sure listen.
I bet HTC will too if you present them well.
Good luck
Hope to see you up there.
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Thanks Pongo I know the picture and the hispano's now don't match....was a concession to "game play" I think the same concessions should be made all around, but then we would have the moans that this is just like every other flight sim blah blah, as for the f4U modeling a squaddie has posted all the signifcant data (F4UDOA) regarding the problems with the FM and Pyro said he was "looking into it" and "knew" it was off abit (sorry Funked guess you missed it). I have some issues which don't effect most of the guys, my eyesight is not what it was so the "small" planes are hard for me to see but that is not the games problem it is mine, also I get weird connect problems all the time but I guess others do too which again is NOT the games fault, but the fact is that if what you are seeing is NOT what is the real situation then ATA combat is almost impossible. My gunnery stats will show how much I miss I think I am the worst shot on AH, but it is due mostly to perspective, I am shooting at something that is not there or the sights are off or something but I sure shoot alot better in RL than on this game
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FWIW, you should have hung around for the second frame today... I enabled the Nikki and the F4U-1D (along with the Zero, B-26 and P-38) and Ons had 3 kills in the F4U. Not too shabby...
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BigJim creates a thread called The Dividing Line, wherein he states that there are two groups, the opinionated radicals and then the cheerleders.
So he makes another post wherein' he lists about 300 things he dislikes about AH in the space of a single paragraph.
To actually debate the issues? To make suggestions for things he'd like changed? Nah, that wasn't his purpose at all. His sole intent was to 'out' the cheerleaders.
And sure enough, here came the "Aha!"
Quoteth BigJim: "heheheh I guess you cheerleaders don't like being identified, but never the less the outcome is the same and it is all going as I said it would, if anyone DARES complain then here come the stormtroopers, claiming the poster is unintellegent...."
So I guess the cheerleaders were caught red handid. Or something.
Feh.
Nice troll Jim.
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Originally posted by Pongo:
Hey cheerleaders.
Maybe pointing out apperant problems to HTC and sticking it out when cheerleaders battle for the status quo is worth it. Sure gets ya lumps though.
I think everyone knows there are problems. I think HTC gets pretty regular notification of them too.
I have no issue with pointing out problems.
I just fail to see why pointing out problems in a post requires an "attitude". Why can't a person speak his piece, provide some data or film <if available> and leave it at that?
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Nash I sure as hell don't know what your "agenda" is but as someone who is or was a trainer your attack on me and "what" I was thinking is just plain WRONG, hell I have posted more over this than I have on ANY subject at all. I have LESS than 150 posts on this board so put on your "goodie two shoes" attitude and take a hike. I don't think HTC appointed you to drive away customers with your flaming attitude and outragious statements, 300 things indeed hell you can't even read let alone judge people
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BigJim, in this tour I've one flight with F4U1-C, two with P51D and several with 190A5 (2x20) and 109G10 (3x20). My conclusions are:
1 - P51D 50s are very effective at convergence, deadly up to 600 yards and good for snapshots up to 500 yards. I'm used to fire at 250 yards with 190A5, and firing at this range with 50s is devastating.
2 - 190A5 2xMg151/20 for me are effective at less than 350 yards, average snapshot capability at 250 yards or less. Very slow ROF, and the MGFF seems to be effective at less than 200 yards.
3 - 109G10 3xMg151/20 is a very good gun platform, ROF seems to be much higher than with 190 and is effective at even 450 yards, with good snapshot capability at 300 yards.
4 - HogC 4xHispanos IMO is the best firing platform in AH, no problem killing at 800 yards with a pair of pings, very tense trajectory and extremely easy to score hits and kills with snapshots at even 500 yards.
NOTE: When I talk about gun effectiveness, I'm refering to shoot with accuracy, not to unload the entire ammo to score a dozen of hits.
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You guys are all full of bull. I know that every plane that shot me down last night was overmodeled!! Plain and simple.
There was only one plane that was not overmodeled and I shot that one down!
That's all I have to say about that!
HeHe!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW I had a great time last night near A33. Got my butt handed to me, but I had a great time! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Swager
GeschwaderKommodore I/JG2~Richthofen~[/i]
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.jpg)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/JG2inquirer.html)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 08-14-2000).]
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I think the Sheep Bug occurs if you are shot down, and go to the hangar (You see yourself sans aircraft) make a change to fuel or ammo, and then Click Fly.
It may also happen if you type fly right away after having bailed.
I guess that the software doesn't know what type of plane your supposed to be in, or what country you fly. Ergo it defaults you to the default Airfield of A1.
It isn't a problem if your country owns A1, the Ack doesn't open up on you.
I could be wrong though.
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(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/dtahcard.gif)
"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
lkbrown1@tir.com
http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!
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Dear BigJim!
I challenge you sir....
set your convergence to 250-275-300 in the 51 and DO NOT PULL OFF A ROUND OUTSIDE OF D-300.
If you honestly will do this, I assure you that your concerns regarding 50's versus Cannons will evaporate and you will find inner harmony and peace (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Honestly, I could care less regarding what aircrafts are introduced or what guns they have or whatever....dont give anyone the shot, and suddenly all of this is moot!
Hope ya find happiness or quit AH, one or the other...just dont understand why someone would pay to be so unhappy.
Dont mean to be rude!
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(http://www.geocities.com/tas13th/sqsig/rude.gif)
[This message has been edited by Rude (edited 08-14-2000).]
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"I just fail to see why pointing out problems in a post requires an "attitude". Why can't a person speak his piece, provide some data or film <if available> and leave it at that? "
Exactly Toad.
-Westy
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Originally posted by Maverick:
The photo of the ammo that Pyro posted in that same thread TOTALLY answers the question regarding ammo leathality differences between the LW 20mm and the Hispano's. The size of the casing tells the whole story. The larger case holds more powder. More powder = more velocity for the same size / weight projectile. More velocity means more lethality / penetration and FLATTER trajectory with a longer range. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
Huh yeah...you surely have noted too that the MAIN part of the round (I.E. the part that flies towards the target) is nearly of the same size on the Mauser round and on the Hispano one?
Then can you explain me why one ping with hispano means immediate damage while with mausers only means the enemy is laffin at you?.
And dont tell me that "More velocity means more lethality " as this is not true for HE rounds. And Mausers were ALL HE rounds while Hispanos, if anything here, are mixed ammo.
Easier to hit with hispanos? yes...
Better damage with hispanos?...can you please tell me why? Because I dont see why.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-14-2000).]
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MG 151/20 projectile weighs 92 grams, Hispano projectile weighs 130 grams.
MG 151/20 muzzle velocity 800 m/s, Hispano projectile muzzle velocity 880 m/s.
So at the muzzle, Hispano kinetic energy is about 1.7 times more than MG 151/20.
And the Hispano round has better aerodynamic performance (greater ratio of weight to frontal area) by a factor of 1.4
So the Hispano round starts off with 1.7 times as much KE, and will slow down at a rate 40% less than the MG 151/20.
By the time you get to the target, the Hispano round is going to have WAY more kinetic energy than a MG 151/20 round. I'm guessing 2 or 3 times as much at the ranges we fire at in AH.
The difference in HE load would have to be pretty big to make up for the huge difference in kinetic energy.
Also would not the higher density of the Hispano round allow it to penetrate better?
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Originally posted by funked:
The difference in HE load would have to be pretty big to make up for the huge difference in kinetic energy.
Also would not the higher density of the Hispano round allow it to penetrate better?
well the question was a serious one, as my knowledge here is q bit limited...
Funked the kynetic energy on a round what means? that it does penetrate more?...then you only are blowing a bigger deeper hole...but the HE charge is the same isnt it?...and while a hole can be damaging, the explosion of a HE round can blast away a big piece of the plane...
also AFAIK density helps the penetration, but not the damage done, isnt it? (again my knowledge is liimted here, so I well may be wrong).
I used to think that Kynetic energy doesnt help too much to HE rounds as their main power was in the exploding round, not in the hittin impact.
Is that correct or am I wrong?
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funked, I think our data about cannons is taken from the same source (same web page basically). I'm starting to doubt a lot about its accuracy, hope you have, at least, two of three more sources pointing to the same numbers. As a side note, along some books, I've read a lot of "good" words about mauser guns, and, "curiously" none about hispanos (except poor realiability).
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RAM, from what I have read, it seems the HE in any 20 mm is so small that KE was still the main factor unless the round hits fuel or other flammables.
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BigJim, do you plan on flying this Thursday night, by chance?
<winks at Funked>
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P/O banana
XO 308(Polish) Sqn "City of Cracow" RAF
"Look at me when I HO you!"
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Originally posted by funked:
RAM, from what I have read, it seems the HE in any 20 mm is so small that KE was still the main factor unless the round hits fuel or other flammables.
umm that surprises me...I have seen quite many photos on B17 damage done by a few rounds of mausers 20mm that indicates just the opposite...
AFAIK Mausers were very very effective antibomber weapon as well as antifighter weapon...that means that the damage they did was quite serious...
but well as I said, my knowledge about damage is quite limited...so I'll shut up for now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hmmm <scream,roar,sound of things being broken> Ya know I'm beginning ta think that HTC should scrap the whole airwar concept and focus on the real online brutality that gives so much meaning to war in all it's flavors incarnate (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
CAST YOUR VOTES HERE FOR WEBWAR2000, a massively multi-player simulation of antagonistic behavior,spelling errors,flames,dweeb trolls and gross misrepersentations of the truth.
"Brother, this trip's gonna make LSD feel like aspirin"
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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I bet that Hispano has some sort of APHE round in AH, instead of AP..
Its blast radius is simply awesome for just AP round.
It penetrates very well (can't disagree with that after destroying few tanks through their fronts) and blows very well for AP also.
My notices with Hispano: at close ranges, it does not vary much from MG151/20 with effect per hit, but from long ranges like 800 yards, it is simply devastating compared to MG151/20.
It's anti-tank capabilities are also AWESOME, because you don't really have to bother to think much your approach angle on a tank, you can as well just go in low and kill panzer through its front plates. (I know that top hits has chance of killing PZ-IVh, but frontal hits counts as kills?)
IMHO, 20mm shouldn't be able to kill PZ-IVh through front that often, definetly not from beyond 200 yards and I doubt that even 100 yards would do it.
Then.. let's get to .50 caliber, you're very lucky if you get a tank killed, even halftracks takes awesome amount of hits. (I did once strafe with B26 turrets M3 alot close range, he lost only suspension)
My opinion for .50s AT capability is that it should be greater.
Then we get to planes, like said, you have good chances of hitting from 500 yards, even though hit effect gets alot more reduced from that range than with a cannon, because loss of energy and what i think, more dispersion than cannons has.
But from close, I could trade my Bf109s 20mm and 13mms to 4 .50 calibers any time.
.50 calibers also has advantage in ammo count, you can spray & pray fairly much and those hits has good chance of damaging engine. (which seems too easy to do in AH with any gun, no matter do you really hit engine or not)
Conclusion in my opinion is that guns are good for air to air right now, but AT capabilities are off scale.
..what comes to 7.92mm guns, those are crackshot accurate, no dispersion (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (with experience of few pilot kills)
but effectiveness otherwise if you can't afford hitting of pilot, you could as well butter them. (unless its non hispano plane vs. tank and you're the tanker, in that case you can practice shooting with AAMG)
** This is my opinion of the guns, no flame or squeaking changes it, so be smart if you reply to me and dont try to arque, just tell your opinion without arguing, thanks. (and i will do the same if theres need) **
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Gimmie a T, gimmie an O, gimmie an A, gimmie D!
Toad for pres! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by funked:
RAM, from what I have read, it seems the HE in any 20 mm is so small that KE was still the main factor unless the round hits fuel or other flammables.
The Hispano had a pretty good powder charge, and I believe the mauser holds more. Needless to say the MG 151's hollowed out charge was way to thin a shell for heavy AP. I think it was a particularly good design, because the slower muzzle velocity and lower density allowed the round to explode before exiting the aircraft again.
I've read that some pilots prefered the AP rounds in the M2 Hispano due to the HE passing straight through the plane without exploding, or even the case shattering on armor plating without detonation.
The 30mm was like a big grenade (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
- Jig
[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 08-14-2000).]