Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on November 01, 2003, 03:54:44 AM
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I like an MA in which everyone is happy. :) We've all got our favourite maps and favoutite planes, and as long as everyone gets a slice of what they want at some time of the cycle, that's a good situation.
So I felt a bit sorry for the furballers yesterday. No sooner have we parted with the Pizza map when up comes their second most despised map, Big Isles. I personally don't have a problem on BI, especially as there are often CV battles to be found. But I can see the difficulties for the furballers.
Given that Pizza is juxtaposed with BI in the map cycle, there's a two in three chance that Fester's QWW™ map will be juxtaposed with the small maps (ie. unless Trinity comes between those two). That would be bad for those who prefer longer flights, higher altitudes, and dislike having interlopers appearing from a field 2 minutes away. So why not have a rotation like this: [list=1]- Pizza
- Fester's QWW™
- Big Isles
- Children's
- Trinity
That way, the furballers would have something they really look forward to right after the maps they dislike give way to the next in the cycle, and the rest of us would not be subject to two consecutive weeks of Aerial Quake.
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Skuzzy has changed the current rotation a bit...if Big Isles is reset, the arena will switch to SFMA, then back to Big Isles, etc...
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Maaaaan, I wish we had Fester's map more than once every five weeks.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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I suggest someone build the following into a map. No GVs No strat no manneable AAA; auto-AAA 88s that hit you EVERYTIME to get above 6k and no admiral driven CVs (all of them on auto circle).
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_178_1067697610.jpg)
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wow metatron what an imagination you have I cant wait to fly on that.
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I was thinking of you when I made it Fester.
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on a scale of imagination spanning the entire universe this excuse for an insult of a furball map has a subatomic imagination factor.
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Cit, basically the problem is that your map allows all options. It doesn't try to force the "war winning" mentality.
Sure, the war-winners can still play their game, just as they can on any other map.
However, it also allows for great furballing and that just CANNOT be tolerated.
As a famous war winner told me in the MA the other night. "I sank the CV because too many guys are furballing. They need to be helping win the war."
Thus, it doesn't suit them when other folks don't play their game.
As Laz has pointed out many, many times. They need "mom" to make the other kids play with them.
Isn't that right, Voss?
Hey, how'd your squad take the announcement anyway? :rofl
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Originally posted by Citabria
on a scale of imagination spanning the entire universe this excuse for an insult of a furball map has a subatomic imagination factor.
Your attempt at an intelligently constructed insult falls far short of the mark fester. Have a cup of coffee and try again.
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Originally posted by MetaTron
Your attempt at an intelligently constructed insult falls far short of the mark fester. Have a cup of coffee and try again.
You just can't learn can you and after all of these years and all of the strife.
You should stop before history repeats itself.
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Originally posted by Toad
As a famous war winner told me in the MA the other night. "I sank the CV because too many guys are furballing. They need to be helping win the war."
Sigh... I was having fun in that furball, too.
Too bad the strat guys don't realize that if I don't feel like flying strat (I do on occasion), and I can't find a good CV furball, I just log.
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Originally posted by Toad
However, it also allows for great furballing and that just CANNOT be tolerated.
Oh brother. Lay it on, Toady, lay it on thick.
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Somebody hurry up and reset Bigisles so that Uterus will be up tonight.
Glad to hear about the map rotation change. Now I don't have to take entire weeks off; I can at least hope that a small map will be up.
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Originally posted by Toad
As Laz has pointed out many, many times. They need "mom" to make the other kids play with them.
So instead, we had "Dad" tell us how the map must look so as to manufacture those oh-so-meaningful and oh-so-realistic fights at 6K by artificial means...
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Forgive me for butting in, but why does it matter if the fights other people engage in are meaningful or realistic?
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Originally posted by beet1e
So instead, we had "Dad" tell us how the map must look so as to manufacture those oh-so-meaningful and oh-so-realistic fights at 6K by artificial means...
Which in no way affects the way you want to play now does it?
BTW....our fights do not occur at 6k but rather from the deck to about 2k....just one more example of you speaking to a topic which you know so very little about:)
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Thanks for proving my point Beet!
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Originally posted by Rude
Which in no way affects the way you want to play now does it?
Interlopers. (Opportunist goon hunters and cherrypickers!)
Mr. Toad! (hehe, now we each know what the other looks like)Sure, the war-winners can still play their game, just as they can on any other map.
Erm... the larger maps eg. Pizza are not what I would call war winners' maps. Remember in the early days before pizza started curling at the edges, it would sometimes be up for three weeks - because it never got reset. If you were to ask me what is the most obvious war winners' map, I would say Children's - because of fewer fields and relatively close field spacing. But we're all off topic already. This was about map rotation. But SOB advises us that Skuzzy has changed the current rotation a bit...if Big Isles is reset, the arena will switch to SFMA, then back to Big Isles, etc...
... a creeping process at work? :(
_____________________________ _________________
time for a popup map poll at logon!
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Any map is a war-winner's map. Not every map is a furball map, BI being the poster-child of a poor "fighting" map.
I'd think you'd like the small, fast reset maps.
Think how much faster you can win wars and rack up sacred perk points. Not to mention mutiple Hawaiian vacations and new cars!!!!!!
BTW, how'd your experiment with the F4U-1 go? Did you learn to love it for it's excellent guns and amazingly high rate of climb? Sure is easy to "extend" in it, isn't it? :)
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so meta is making maps allready? how long before he solicits funds from players to make a whole new game? One whose realism will blow everything else out of the water? got screenshots yet meta?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
so meta is making maps allready? how long before he solicits funds from players to make a whole new game? One whose realism will blow everything else out of the water? got screenshots yet meta?
lazs
:rofl
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That would be a very poor way to make money lazs. I can think of many more lucrative methods. No Im perfectly happy with Aces High arent you?
Oh I suppose not.
Rude that sounded like a threat. You still preach one tune and play another dont you? Romans 2. No Im not a saint, but Im also not the hypocrite you are.
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Trouble is with the F4U-1 (and any low powered plane) is that if you're flying alone, as I do now that my squad upped and left, it's not a good plane to survive in. Here's a test for you, Mr. Toad: Get up early, or go to bed very late, so as to play during Euro prime time or at least outside of US Prime time when your friends aren't there. Then take a F4U-1 (or Spit V if you prefer) and head to a sector with a long red bardar at 6K, and see how long you last. Post back with the film. I'll be waiting. :D
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Originally posted by beet1e
Trouble is with the F4U-1 (and any low powered plane) is that if you're flying alone, as I do now that my squad upped and left, it's not a good plane to survive in. Here's a test for you, Mr. Toad: Get up early, or go to bed very late, so as to play during Euro prime time or at least outside of US Prime time when your friends aren't there. Then take a F4U-1 (or Spit V if you prefer) and head to a sector with a long red bardar at 6K, and see how long you last. Post back with the film. I'll be waiting. :D
Beet ... I fly a lot more than any of my squaddies, ergo, I fly alone a lot. My main ride is the Spit V. Check my stats ... I do ok ... so your reasons hold no water.
You still don't understand ... if we get shot down, no matter the odds, we don't fret over it ... thats the difference between you and furballers and until you let the "fret" go and set yourself free, you will never understand.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Beet ... I fly a lot more than any of my squaddies, ergo, I fly alone a lot. My main ride is the Spit V. Check my stats ... I do ok ... so your reasons hold no water.
Alrighty then. And where did you say the film was?
Check my stats too. I think I do OK, and I get shot down plenty!
Yes I see you fly mostly Spit V. I also see you're an LA7 dweeb, as well as flying most of the other Easymode™ planes. I guess you save those planes for those lonely nights when there's no-one to hold your hand. ;)
Seriously, I used to moonlight in WB with a band called the Scanian Griffins. A very well organised squad, led by a Swedish guy called Rudu. Working in a well organised group (mostly only 3 or 4 of us) I was amazed at how my k/d skyrocketed. So if you're in the company of your fellow dw... er, TAS squadmates, I can see how you'd do well. But go and film one of those sorties where you get a bucketload of kills, working alone below 6K in your Spit V, and then we'll talk again. But post the film, boy. And give my red sig. text a read. :lol
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SG's great squad, one of best in any flight sim IMO,
I dont miss runnin into them over the channel :eek:
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Slapshot is the purest of rookies.
You should take him to the DA and school him Beet1e.
I'm sure he could learn a lot from you about ACM.
Please do film that one.
You're sorta catching on about the F4U-1. You have to win and win fast in it in a multi-plane. And you're not leaving (alive) until you kill ALL the bad guys. Great plane to fly to test your limitations; I find it quite a challenge.
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Originally posted by Toad
You're sorta catching on about the F4U-1. You have to win and win fast in it in a multi-plane. And you're not leaving (alive) until you kill ALL the bad guys. Great plane to fly to test your limitations; I find it quite a challenge.
I like challenges. I get NO satisfaction from winning in Easymode™ planes. Lately I've been flying the 109G2, but I'll go back to the F4U-1.
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Just what are the "easymode" planes Beet?
Which ones are uber in EVERY circumstance?
I know some are good at B&Z and I know some that are good at T&B and there are a very few that are workable at both.
I think it sort of depends more on how you fly rather than WHAT you fly.
For example, don't you think it's extremely "easymode" to fly a really fast, good-climbing but relatively poor turning aircraft in the B&Z mode? Yet take that same aircraft into a dense furball, mixing it up down low and it would be anything BUT "easymode".
There are more "easymode" fliers than there are "easymode" planes.
IMO.
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Originally posted by Toad
Just what are the "easymode" planes Beet?
Any plane that he doesn't like / sees too much of / gets killed by. That should about sum it up.
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Toad ...
Beet is more into the "if-I-screwup-i'm-outta-here-so-I-wont-die-and-I-can-sleep-tonight" ™ airplanes.
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Originally posted by the esteemed Mr. Toad
Just what are the "easymode" planes Beet?
The Big Five. P51D, LA7, Spit ix, N1K, TYPH. Easy-peasy. That's why folks fly 'em. That's why you see these planes more than any other. Minimal learning curve. Planes that are fast and turn well (OK, N1K not fast, but an HO "hang-on-the-prop-then-fire-upwards-for-1000-yard-vertical-one-ping-kill wonderplane). Point-and-click planes. You will never see me in any of these planes. Not that I haven't tried some of them in the dim and distant past. But I have never flown a N1K online.
SOB! As for these planes shooting me down a lot, allow me to quote my career stats: - P51D - killed by 133, kills of 389
- LA7 - killed by 120, kills of 286.
- Spit ix - killed by 134, kills of 439
- N1K - killed by 106, kills of 371
- TYPH - killed by 68, kills of 174.
Source: http://www.innomi.com/ahkillstats/careerstats.php?player=beet1e
That should about sum it up. :D
Your remarks seem to indicate disorientation - low blood sugar level? Guess it's way past burger time! :lol
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i agree it's more how one flys rather than what one flys.
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Cool, Beet's postin his stats..
I smell a film coming..
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Beet, your saying that furballing on the deck in a P-51 is Easy-peasy?
Turn fighting on the deck in an La-7 is too easy for you?
Turnfighting a Typh is just no challenge?
Come see me some time. ;) I'll show you where the fun is. We'll take these three out into some low alt furballs. I'm sure you kill everything in sight in these Easy-peasy planes.
And post a film for us all to watch?
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Originally posted by MetaTron
That would be a very poor way to make money lazs. I can think of many more lucrative methods. No Im perfectly happy with Aces High arent you?
Oh I suppose not.
Rude that sounded like a threat. You still preach one tune and play another dont you? Romans 2. No Im not a saint, but Im also not the hypocrite you are.
Voss....
Do you really want to continue this?
Hypocrite? Now that's laughable.....a man who hasn't told the truth in the 12 years I've known him and you call me a hypocrite.
Want to tell the rest of these folks how this hypocrite treated you during those years....why don't you do that?
Stop diggin Voss...especially in front of everyone....how many times will you do this to yourself before you learn?
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Originally posted by beet1e
I like challenges. I get NO satisfaction from winning in Easymode™ planes. Lately I've been flying the 109G2, but I'll go back to the F4U-1.
Beetle....you are really talking from a weak position and you don't realize it....I can speak to the Mustang on your easy list....turnin a pony on the deck is not easy....flying it like a girlscout is. There is a big difference.
Someday you will be tellin us all how silly you were during these present days and how sorry you are that you didn't learn to really fight....such a waste of your online life:)
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LOL, you fly the 109 G2 and you're bagging on the P51d?! You are a sad little clown.
It is curious though, how you've managed to maintain a positive K/D ratio against these super planes.
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Originally posted by Rude
Beetle....you are really talking from a weak position and you don't realize it....I can speak to the Mustang on your easy list....turnin a pony on the deck is not easy....flying it like a girlscout is. There is a big difference.
I can't believe how asinine you guys can be. The P51 was not designed to go "turnin on the deck". For example, in the war in Europe, Germany was being bombed by Allied B17s. But the LW defences were formidable, and B17 losses were so heavy that they were deemed unacceptable. B17 attacks on Germany resumed once adequate fighter cover could be provided, and that came in the form of the P51 Mustang. As far as I know - and I have met real life P51 pilot Punchy Powell - the P51 was not used how you play with it in this game, ie wacking off in the weeds.
But oh, I digress. I'm speaking of WW2. Nothing to do with how you spend your online time. BTW the WW in WW2 does not stand for Weed Wackers. Thought you ought to know that. :D Forgive me for seeking realism/immersion. I guess that's hard to understand for someone who only plays half or a third of this game. This post will be one of my shorter ones because I cannot find the words to express my feelings about how far from WW2 realism you guys have gone, and are prepared to go further.
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LOL, how DARE we fly the way we like! You really ARE a sad little clown! Congratulations! :rofl
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Originally posted by beet1e
BTW the WW in WW2 does not stand for Weed Wackers. Thought you ought to know that. :D Forgive me for seeking realism/immersion.
Well sheeat Beet, there's 40 or 50 guys over the hill that KNOW that "realism/immersion" thing...
They got that stuff DOWN. You can argue about rivit's and ballistics and all sorts of neat stuff.. An accurate RPS so you have a real mix of "historical" plane sets. Makes my mouth water.
It's "immersive" flying a sortie and not running into anyone else, and if you do, their nose is bleeding..
That real stuff is great !!
I'm sold..
They have a huge map that hasn't been changed in 2 years. It sucks for fighting but it looks like a REAL one. Just looking at it, I'm brought back to 1944...
It gives me goosebumps..
But you know, they threw out the sandbox..
People play in the sandbox.
A "good" sandbox has options for everyone. And of late, options are being spread about a little more evenly. The sandbox with the addition of fester's map is coming along quite nicely. Alot of fun.
Remember, there are alternatives so real that you can feel the cold in your legs..
You could become a rivit counter..
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Hehe, all off topic, but that's OK. It's my thread.
SOB - sad little clown, huh? Did you say little? I'm about 100Kg or 215 of your earth pounds. Still, it's all relative! Muhahahaha :rofl
Rude also said "Beetle....you are really talking from a weak position and you don't realize it....I can speak to the Mustang on your easy list....turnin a pony on the deck is not easy....flying it like a girlscout is. There is a big difference." Weakness? Please do enlighten me - what fate is likely to befall me on account of this weakness of position? BTW, I checked my P51 stats from way back what - 1˝ years ago when I was new around here. Got a k/d better than 3/1. Guess I must have been flying it like a girl scout. Guess folks like Powell and his Jug equivalent, Francis Gabreski, were just a bunch of girl scouts then? Geeez, which galaxy are you from...
Mr. Toad, I hope you won't be offended if I decline your kind offer. I have as much interest in becoming a weed wacker as I had in the schoolboy game, "suicide chess". Less said the better.
Toodle-Pip :D
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LOL..."little" wasn't referring to your physical size, genius. Back on topic...I've been flying the P47 a bit lately, but I'm afraid I may be flying it incorrectly. If you wouldn't mind, please create a checklist for me on how to fly it...maybe just some Do's and Do Not's. I'd hate to think I was flying it in an ahistorical manner. I mean hell, what would Gabby think?!
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SOB! The P47 excels at high alt - 20K+. I guess you and your ilk will never come to appreciate that. Good to see you do other things besides being a N1K-dweeb. Sounds like you just want a fire button to pummel, and to make things go BOOM! Oh, and maybe some US Airforce markings somewhere...
Originally posted by SOB
Back on topic...I've been flying the P47 a bit lately, but I'm afraid I may be flying it incorrectly. If you wouldn't mind, please create a checklist for me on how to fly it...maybe just some Do's and Do Not's. I'd hate to think I was flying it in an ahistorical manner. I mean hell, what would Gabby think?!
Actually, the topic was Map Rotation.
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The MA never was and is not intended to recreate WW2.
This is obvious to even the most casual observer. Someday, it may become obvious to you but I doubt it.
I'm not suprised you don't want to fly Easy-peasy aircraft in an extremely challenging manner. I see you agree that it's not the plane, it's how the pilot flies that makes for an "easy-peasy" approach to AH.
From watching you online it's clear you like the safe, cautious no risk approach. It's your pence; if you like Easy-peasy flying, enjoy it all you like. As I said before, I rarely run into your type down in the weeds so it's no factor to my game.
And there are accounts of Mustangs turnfighting on the deck, btw. Designed for it or not, WW2 pilots understood the mission was "to fly and to fight"; you engaged the enemy where you found him.
I had to smile thinking of General Beetle in the briefing room explaining to his pilots "Men, we must only engage the enemy within the design parameters of our aircraft. Don't go pushing the envelope!"
Not to worry though, soon TOD will arrive and you can go try to make folks play your way there, general.
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Originally posted by Toad
Not to worry though, soon TOD will arrive and you can go try to make folks play your way there, general.
the more i see how clueless and easymode beet1e flys... i'm having a harder time trying to accept that even the AI drones in TOD will respect his mad skillz.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Toad
The MA never was and is not intended to recreate WW2.
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/toadisfullofhotair.jpg)
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Originally posted by beet1e
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/toadisfullofhotair.jpg)
it didn't specifically say "MA" in that pix anywhere.
SEA (events), CT (great potential)...
besides, you already said you don't beleive that AH is anywhere near "realistic/immersive" enough. perhaps you might try WB3 or FA(2/3 whichever) or WW2OL, or IL2, or... or... or.... any number of boxed sims with AI that will give you all the challenge you desire - hell, you would probably even earn medals and stuff!!
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Originally posted by Shane
it didn't specifically say "MA" in that pix anywhere.
It didn't have to!
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So this accurately and realistically recreates WW2?
(http://www.aircombatusa.com/images/photo_anim2.gif)
BTW, there's a feature you missed if you really want WW2:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_116_1067871516.gif)
Note it says "historical scenarios" which DO NOT take place in the MA. I stand by my statement.
Funny that in the MA it's a three-way featuring Knights, Bishops and Rooks. Each country has exactly the same aircraft available to them. Where exactly did that combat take place in your version of WW2?
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Yep, Over in the WB "Historical" arena you can re-create the little known about..
Hellcat vs. Zeke battles over the English Channel ;)
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I always remember how those Brand-W scenarios would be scheduled for US Prime time - about 4am for me. And the icon range would be so short that you'd be chasing dots. Sure way to get a headache.
Oh well, sorry your not enjoying BI. I was in there this morning for an hour. Was OK at first, CV battles, but then the suicide jabo and 300' LANC formations started appearing... :( :mad:
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Are you dodging yet again Beet?
Make the case that the design of the MA is intended to recreate WW2. Be sure and explain how all three combatant sides in the MA get to use the same set of aircraft.
I've had some fun on BI so far. Not much, but some. 90% of the fun I've had is linked to a CV in the equation. Once the CV is sunk, it's usually time for the DA, which has been VERY good of late. The CT this week isn't really too interesting to me.
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what fate is likely to befall me on account of this weakness of position?
You will remain a stick in the mud for the rest of your days:)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Alrighty then. And where did you say the film was?
Check my stats too. I think I do OK, and I get shot down plenty!
Yes I see you fly mostly Spit V. I also see you're an LA7 dweeb, as well as flying most of the other Easymode™ planes. I guess you save those planes for those lonely nights when there's no-one to hold your hand. ;)
Seriously, I used to moonlight in WB with a band called the Scanian Griffins. A very well organised squad, led by a Swedish guy called Rudu. Working in a well organised group (mostly only 3 or 4 of us) I was amazed at how my k/d skyrocketed. So if you're in the company of your fellow dw... er, TAS squadmates, I can see how you'd do well. But go and film one of those sorties where you get a bucketload of kills, working alone below 6K in your Spit V, and then we'll talk again. But post the film, boy. And give my red sig. text a read. :lol
Film ? ... I don't need no steekin' films. I don't usually film, and if I do its for my own edification for learning and not to prove something ... but I might have to roll film just for the heck of it.
I just cheked you stats and your top 4 planes fall into the "if-I-screwup-i'm-outta-here-so-I-wont-die-and-I-can-sleep-tonight" ™ category. Nothing surprising here.
I have been with the TAS for a little over a week now ... and as I pointed out before, I fly more than most in the TAS so I do fly alone most often.
Your lone wolf theory still does not hold water.
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Originally posted by beet1e
But go and film one of those sorties where you get a bucketload of kills, working alone below 6K in your Spit V, and then we'll talk again. But post the film, boy. And give my red sig. text a read. :lol
Slapshot didn't make it, but he is in it.
Enjoy. (http://www.theblueknights.com/files/7_21_03_Crazy_fun.ahf)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Mr. Toad. I've never seen that animated .GIF that you posted above, and looking at the source, it does not appear to be on HTC's website. Can you point me at the original?
To answer your questions... Of course, we cannot recreate WW2. Those $14.95 subscriptions would soon dry up, what with everyone dying for real! But at the other end of the scale, we have the totally unrealistic suicide crap, LANC divebombing formations, and numerous other Game-the-Game player initiatives. Note my use of the word "scale". Some WW2 games are much more structured, with returning to base after the mission a key factor, and teamwork is indispensable. The bridge connecting these scenarios is a sliding scale like a trombone slide, not a scale with notches representing fixed positions along its length, and certainly not an on/off switch. I was middle of road in Brand-W on the gameplay issues. Some guys there wanted everything to be modelled as in WW2. You'd laugh, but I know of guys who actually dressed up in a military get-up to play the damned game! Hehe, I wasn't one of them. ;) I didn't care to have to fly for 8 hours to get a kill, and clearly concessions are needed for gameplay. WW2 was not fun, therefore the more we move towards REAL the further we'll get from FUN... but as I've said before, I believe that there's a limit to how far we can go the other way (away from REAL) before we're no longer getting any nearer to FUN. And it is my opinion (and that of other players - your opinion may and does indeed differ) that we have long since passed that point.
All sides having the same planes? Yep, but I've seen what happens when the different sides choose between different plane sets - sideswitching, avion du jour etc. So the current set up is a gaming concession. I campaigned to have the sides locked for an entire tour in WB. A compromise was reached - minimum time between side switches increased from 15 mins to 1 hour. :eek::rolleyes:
But weedwacking at 2K in a Mustang - every flight ??? No thanks. But far be it from me to tell you how to fly!
Rude! Hard not to like a guy whose first name is Otto. ;) That is you, isn't it?
Slapshot, you are becoming tedious. Either put up, or shut up. But don't expect me to believe you or take anything you say at face value. I have been with the TAS for a little over a week now ... and as I pointed out before, I fly more than most in the TAS so I do fly alone most often.
Your lone wolf theory still does not hold water.
I guess those are the times you save for your LA7 - a "if-I-screwup-i'm-outta-here-so-I-wont-die-and-I-can-sleep-tonight" ™ plane if ever there was one. I have film proof to substantiate any claims I might make, and I don't see why it's unreasonable to expect you to provide same. So until that time, go forth and urinate.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Please do enlighten me - what fate is likely to befall me on account of this weakness of position?
you'll never be able to ACM your way out of an air castle.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Slapshot didn't make it, but he is in it.
Enjoy. (http://www.theblueknights.com/files/7_21_03_Crazy_fun.ahf)
-- Todd/Leviathn
Excellent film, DMF :) Now why can't more folks do 'em? I really liked #6 of your 10 kills - an LA7. :D What I'm looking for from slapshot is something like that. I appreciate you posting this film, but it does mean that Slap was not alone.
I don't generally fly turning planes like that, so have to use other techniques perhaps...
I had a good time making this one a while back - alone except for a buff, over an enemy field. Sort of like your film but with the E fiter winning out over the T&B guys. Spit Dweebs! (http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/109G10_tour41_6.zip)
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But weedwacking at 2K in a Mustang - every flight ??? No thanks.
Actually it's a blast. I don't know about that 2k thing.. I fought Rude the other day but I think we got up to 4K or so.. hmmm come to think of it, I had E.. he might not have gone over 2K. Anyway, it sure was fun, and Rude was doin just fine in his low, slow pony.
Beet, I read on other threads where you typed that you typically fly from 15-20k. Dude, you also thumped your chest about having a 3/1 K/D ratio in a pony when it was your main ride. Shhhhh. at that alt in a pony, if you're not at 15/1 or so you really shouldn't mention it. :) .... ya dang girl scout.
OTOH, I don't see why these recent furball converts bray so loudly at others who chose not to fly their way. As if, since they now furball, it is somehow less manly to fly any other way. The hypocricy is amusing. Had one of them call me a "sky accountant" the other day, and he had spent the bulk of his AH time as a pony pilot...the irony gave me a chuckle, and this from a guy who has by far his greatest numbers of kills in a pony. Suddenly, their former "peers" are somehow less than they themselves are because they haven't changed flying styles to what is seen as "cool". When will they learn that changing their spots does not change their history? I'm disappointed they behave this way personally because I tend to agree with them across the board on what constitutes a good map/fight/fun.
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Well Beet, you never disappoint. Your last little diatribe fails to answer the question but better yet, you clearly show how you disagree with your previously posted commentary.
You said:
But oh, I digress. I'm speaking of WW2. Nothing to do with how you spend your online time. BTW the WW in WW2 does not stand for Weed Wackers. Thought you ought to know that. Forgive me for seeking realism/immersion.
I said "The MA never was and is not intended to recreate WW2." I stand by this statement. Apparently you now agree.
You replied with the pic from HTC's into page welcoming us all to "the internet's premier WW2 combat experience". The implication of your reply is that HT means for the MA to offer WW2 realistic combat in the MA.
Note well that it says absolutely NOTHING about recreating WW2. It says NOTHING about "realism" It says NOTHING about immerison. It merely offers a WW2 "combat experience" whatever that is. It surely doesn't promise a simulation of WW2 starting with the invasion of Poland and progressing from there. Just a "combat experience."
It's ludicrous for anyone to maintain that the MA is meant to recreate a "realistic" or "immersive" WW2 combat experience. When the real combatants flew, they did not have the continual choice of flying the enemy's own aircraft against them. There was no Axis multi-plane B-17 raids on London that were countered by a Wing of British FW-190's rising to meet them.
Even to YOU, the most obtuse poster on the BBS, it has to be clear that the MA is not designed to recreate WW2 with any sort of realism or immersion. Indeed, you are aware of it:
suicide crap, LANC divebombing formations, and numerous other Game-the-Game player initiatives
All of these things are designed into the MA. HTC knows of them and allows them to continue. Yet you never stop complaining even though it's clear that the MA is what HT wants it to be.
Not WW2 at all.
It's merely a place where you might have some incredibly unrealistic WW2 style "combat experience". It's great fun for those who realize and accept this fact.
Your digression into what AH's MA is NOT merely proves my point.
The MA is not, was not, never will be designed to accurately recreate any sort of realistic or immersive WW2 air combat. The design of the combatant countries, the availability of all aircraft to all sides... everything points to the fact that the MA is a fantasyland loosely based around WW2 aircraft.
So, all your moaning and gnashing of teeth best be saved for TOD. It's your best hope.
The MA is not what you seek. It never will be.
For that, I am extremely grateful to HTC.
The animation is from Air Combat USA. Their offer?
At Air Combat USA®, you actually fly a light attack fighter aircraft and become a fighter pilot for a day
It would seem they offer a "fighter pilot experience; not to turn you into a fighter pilot or offer you a chance to recreate an air war. Nope, just a chance to do something distantly, remotely, vaguely similar to the real thing. In other words, pretty much what AH offers to an even lesser extent.
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Originally posted by Steve
... who chose not to fly their way. As if, since they now furball, it is somehow less manly to fly any other way.
Steve, I'll let a little secret out of the bag. I delayed a loooong time in joining TAS after I met Rude at a KC lunch. I was a "lone wolf" type furballer. I just like to fight. Way back then, I think Voss was actually CO of TAS maybe and their style was just tooooooo boring for me.
Well, Rude's persuasive and he talked me into it. I tried to fly their way but it was very, very difficult for me. You remember the "Battle of Britain" film where the English flight leader is out training a flight of Polish pilots and they see some bandits? One Pole peels off and engages.. then another.. then another.. soon they're all in.
Well, I was always the first Pole. I'd see the bandits call them out and get told to wait till we had more advantage. But, like an eager Lab pup waiting to retrieve, I'd eventually dive in despite orders. :D And.. the other's would slowly follow me in.
Must have been real frustrating for Rude. Eventually, I did become more of a "team player" but I was always restless in the B&Z mode. Truth to tell, we climbed so much it drove me to distraction. This was partly because Rude had to take a smoke break after a mission I guess. Anyway, it drove me nutso. Which made my "Polish Pilot" peel off the very first chance he got. ;)
Anyway, point of the narrative is that I was talking to HT about it one day. We were bantering a bit and although my heart really wasn't in the risk-free B&Z style of TAS at that time, I pointed out to HT that Rude ran one of the top squads and certainly the top P-51 squad. TAS was killing far more times than being killed; with our teamwork, most folks never got to pull the trigger before they were back in the tower. Oh, it didn't always work like that but it did more often than not. That's the way we wanted it because it was "fun" for us to be able to basically fly risk-free and rack up tons of kills.
HT succinctly pointed out that it certainly was fun for us but that it was certainly not fun for anyone else to not even get a chance to shoot back.
POW. Sledgehammer right between the eyes.
Think on that a while.
If everyone flew cautiously in a risk-free mode...... how long would this game last?
It's not so much that we think it's "less manly"; it's more that we have come far enough along to realize that it's far less fun for everyone involved. Further, we've got enough experience on both sides of the question that we feel we know which is "harder" or "more challenging" to do successfully, individually or as a squad.
Just my .02.
Fly however you like; it doesn't bother me. As I said, the risk-free guys rarely get low enough to be a problem. ;)
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"I guess those are the times you save for your LA7 - a "if-I-screwup-i'm-outta-here-so-I-wont-die-and-I-can-sleep-tonight" ™ plane if ever there was one. I have film proof to substantiate any claims I might make, and I don't see why it's unreasonable to expect you to provide same. So until that time, go forth and urinate."
Beet 'ol buddy ... I pull the LaLa out of the hanger usually for goon hunting when defending. I has 36 goon kills and I would say that 30 of them are in the LaLa. Others come from killing the goon escorts and the remainder come from chasing down the "if-I-screwup-i'm-outta-here-so-I-wont-die-and-I-can-sleep-tonight" ™ planes (109s, 190s, P51s, etc.).
Beet ... u still don't get it ... I don't run ... I don't care if I die ... I will always turn and fight as long as there is gas in the tank and bullets in the hopper, so when flying the LaLa, I won't be running from you, I will be fighting you, then hopefully chasing you, and finally killing you.
What's real funny is more people will engage me when in the LaLa than when in the Spit V. I wonder why ?
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Oooh! Long replies :) I'm flattered that you guys took the time, especially Mr. Toad. Thanks all.
OK, Bufo, I guess you never knew WB... it used to be $2/hour. Some months my bill looked like a car payment. :eek: It kept all the tardz out. And many parties in the MA organised themselves into campaigns much like those that TOD may offer. That was made possible in the absence of tardz, kidz, and various idiotz with the fuel porkage/suicide the CV/Pork-n-auger mentality. It was much more gentlemanly. I look at this BBS today, and the amount of abuse that's taking place on the BBS and in the game is quite staggering. So I had no complaints about gameplay in those days.
Try to forget the on/off switch. There are other colours besides black and white. You seem to think that either we must have WW2 (8 hour buff sorties with escorts) or we will have idiotic 2 minute flights to the nearest fight, as during QWWW. I'm neither looking for WW2 the way you mean it (black, switch in on position) nor gamey crap (white, switch in off position) There is a whole spectrum of colour in between.You are at the red end of the spectrum. I'm probably at the yellow/green area of the flightsim spectrum. Fly however you like; it doesn't bother me. As I said, the risk-free guys rarely get low enough to be a problem.
Hehe, you haven't viewed that film I posted. ;) Note well that it says absolutely NOTHING about recreating WW2. It says NOTHING about "realism" It says NOTHING about immerison. It merely offers a WW2 "combat experience" whatever that is. It surely doesn't promise a simulation of WW2 starting with the invasion of Poland and progressing from there. Just a "combat experience."
Does it say anything about furballing? Does it say anything about wacking off in the weeds? ;):D
Slapshot - tough talk, but still no film - maybe tonight? But what's this... "Beet 'ol buddy ... I pull the LaLa out of the hanger usually for goon hunting when defending. I has 36 goon kills and I would say that 30 of them are in the LaLa."
What the hell are you doing goon hunting? I thought you guys didn't care about strat (?) I thought you guys didn't care about losing fields (?) So why the need to shoot down goons whose only threat is to the ownership of your field that you don't care about losing? :rolleyes: LOL - learn something new every day. :D
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Originally posted by beet1e
Try to forget the on/off switch. There are other colours besides black and white. You seem to think that either we must have WW2 (8 hour buff sorties with escorts) or we will have idiotic 2 minute flights to the nearest fight, as during QWWW. I'm neither looking for WW2 the way you mean it (black, switch in on position) nor gamey crap (white, switch in off position) There is a whole spectrum of colour in between.You are at the red end of the spectrum. I'm probably at the yellow/green area of the flightsim spectrum. Hehe, you haven't viewed that film I posted. ;) Does it say anything about furballing? Does it say anything about wacking off in the weeds? ;):D
...and you expect everyone else to fly the same way you think is correct. Or have you now changed your mind about that, Ms. Fickle?
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Originally posted by beet1e
I guess you never knew WB...
Never assume. I was in on the WB beta chum. I played it and AW both at the saem time for a whle, then went WB total. I switched when AH went beta. I suspect I have a considerable amount of time in WB, maybe even as much or more than you. I probably played it long before you found it too.. don't remember any Beet1e in the early days.
You're the one that keeps lamenting that the MA isn't as realistic, immersive, serious, dedicated, honorable or whatever is your tripe of the day.
The MA is what it is. A no holds barred lawless place where if it's in the game, someone will be doing it. I have no problem with that, but I think you do.
You're the one continually denigrating people that don't play the way you like. Quake With Wings, Children's maps, tardz, kidz and idiotz....... and you have the effrontery to pine for a "more gentlemanly environment".
:rofl
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"What the hell are you doing goon hunting? I thought you guys didn't care about strat (?) I thought you guys didn't care about losing fields (?) So why the need to shoot down goons whose only threat is to the ownership of your field that you don't care about losing? LOL - learn something new every day."
Crap ... the cat's out of the bag ... Sax will probably put me on report :(
Nah ... I just like to piss in their (missions) wheaties when there are no real furballs to partake in. I love seeing a 30 plane mission coming in and wacking all their goons while they furiously try to take the town down in anticipation of the goon's arrival.
As far as the film ... If I think about I will surely make one for ya.
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but I don't whine about the game itself. It's a very good game. But from the furball camp, I see whines about bombs, whines about maps, whines about suicide fuel porkers, whines about target hardness, whines about night & day, whines about defending HQ being “no fun”, whines about certain players being "timid", whines about jabo guys duffing all the FH at a field, whines about the pizza map - which deserve a catageory of their own... whines about HQ-radar being too "soft", and the devastating effect it has on "FUN" when the thing goes down...
...and yet you pour scorn on those who would climb above 15K to do something about it!
Yes a no-holds-barred lawless place where if it's in the game, someone will be doing it...
...and a place from which there is an inexhaustible cellar of whines from the furballers who never cease in their quest to have the game changed, and modelled in their own image.
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Originally posted by beet1e
...and a place from which there is an inexhaustible cellar of whines from the furballers who never cease in their quest to have the game changed, and modelled in their own image.
So then, it's wrong for them to do it, but OK for you to do it?
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Originally posted by SOB
So then, it's wrong for them to do it, but OK for you to do it?
I have never requested a map or strat change.
Oh well, 15 minutes and no word from Mr. Toad. I guess he's preparing a doozie. ;) Relax, my friend. I'm going to bed so it's almost T-P time. Sorry if our normal gentlemanly standards of BBS courtesy have slipped today. I had a bad night last night and ended up tired today. Maybe slightly irritable? I look forward to hearing from you tomorrow, over coffee. :):)
Toodle-Pip! :p
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.
OTOH, I don't see why these recent furball converts bray so loudly at others who chose not to fly their way. As if, since they now furball, it is somehow less manly to fly any other way. The hypocricy is amusing. Had one of them call me a "sky accountant" the other day, and he had spent the bulk of his AH time as a pony pilot...the irony gave me a chuckle, and this from a guy who has by far his greatest numbers of kills in a pony. Suddenly, their former "peers" are somehow less than they themselves are because they haven't changed flying styles to what is seen as "cool". When will they learn that changing their spots does not change their history? I'm disappointed they behave this way personally because I tend to agree with them across the board on what constitutes a good map/fight/fun.
Well i don't know where that came from Steve, but to put this to you and the rest, you're mistaken as to how I view those who fly like I used to.
If you and Beetle and the few others here had listened carefully, my point has always been that the MA should offer terrains which allow BOTH camps to have fun...no terrain should foster nor prohibit an exclusive style of gameplay, but rather afford ALL of us the opportunity to have some fun.
It's not until someone first, comes on to these boards and lectures or brags as to which style is better, that you will here from me.
Like Toad said...myself along with many others have traveled both roads...when someone who has no experience with furballing begins to lecture me or others about furballing or E fighting as if only they recognize the real truth of the matter, then yes, I will challenge that person every time.
BTW....it has nothing to do with being cool...it's about having fun. Being cool your born with...you can't buy it or wear it or talk about it...it's a state of being and yes, the older you get, this state of being evolves to a different state of being which I really don't want to talk about.:)
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Here ya go beet .... 3rd sortie of the night ... all below 6K.
Caused my own demise by running into the broken wing, gotta get up close and personal with the .303s ...
http://ftp://AcesHigh:AcesHigh@slapshot.homeftp.net
go to the \films directory and get SlapSortie.ahf
added a couple of more for ya ...
SlapSortie2.ahf (furballin')
SlapLoneW.ahf (lone wolfin')
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Originally posted by Toad
The MA never was and is not intended to recreate WW2.
Toad has nailed thisone. Unfortunately, HT chose not to use the AW nominclature for the AH MA. Here MA means Main Arena. In AW MA stood for Melee Arena. The concept is the same in both instances. It is intended as a place where EVERYONE can have fun. It is not intended to be a historically accurate simulation of WWII air combat. (psssst....that's what scenerios are for :)).
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Beet, you've whined as much or more than anyone you castigate for whining. You just whine about different things.
You pour scorn on maps and people and do so as much or more than anyone you castigate for "pouring scorn".
SOB summed it up; I need go no farther than this short agreement with him.
never cease in their quest to have the game changed, and modelled in their own image.
I swear, do you really not see yourself when you write this stuff?
Still waiting to hear you admit the MA never was and is not any sort of realistic, immersive recreation of WW2.
In short, you might as well agree and quit complaining that it isn't as "WW2" as you think it should be.
You'll look a lot less..... like you're continually reversing your opinions.
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Originally posted by Rude
....the MA should offer terrains which allow BOTH camps to have fun...no terrain should foster nor prohibit an exclusive style of gameplay, but rather afford ALL of us the opportunity to have some fun....
Spot on, old chap!
The problem is that there are terrains that are not conducive in the least to fast action. Yet EVERY terrain allows cautious flying and war-winning strategy.
Thank Cod for Fester's effort; the only big map that really has a good balance.
IMO.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Slapshot didn't make it, but he is in it.
Enjoy. (http://www.theblueknights.com/files/7_21_03_Crazy_fun.ahf)
-- Todd/Leviathn
LOL! That was awesome! Great flying Leviathn
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If you and Beetle and the few others here had listened carefully, my point has always been that the MA should offer terrains which allow BOTH camps to have fun...no terrain should foster nor prohibit an exclusive style of gameplay, but rather afford ALL of us the opportunity to have some fun.
Rude, you missed my point, sorry it was a bit off thread topic. Look, I agree 100% w/ your philosophy on maps in the MA. I find Beetle's remarks to be... argumentative for the sake of arguing, lacking substance really. I mean, it could be that I do not understand but it seems to me he has chosen to take a position he cannot really support, but decides to debate regardless. Maybe I'm just obtuse.
Rude, the only exception I take to your camp is when you(your group) take issue w/ others who fly other than down in the weeds. I was bombarded w/ such insults as "sky accountant" and "cherrypicker" the other day by one of your gang. I really think it's innapropriate and hypocritical for you or your gang to make such comments as most of you come from such a background. In fact, my K/H(which one could use to gauge agressiveness) is typically a full 3 or 4 per hour higher in my pony than what your group was recording in their pony prime. Now don't mistake me, I'm not claiming to be a better pilot than anyone in your squad. My point is, that I fly at least as aggressively as any of you did in the pony and that to be called such names by your guys is.. well... unfounded.. considering I am trodding the same path you once did. Additionally, I spend significant time in my beloved FM2... I don't have much success in it... but it sure is fun!!!! :)
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Mr. Toad,
The problem about explaining my position to you is that you always apply binary interpretations to everything. I have expressed disdain for the gameplay in the MA, especially on certain maps. I am not alone in having done this. Many folks have become exasperated by the pork-n-auger tactics of a whole bunch, many are frustrated by the TYPH lemming raids, many wish that more planes would be chosen in the MA, instead of the usual P51/LA7/Spit ix/N1K/TYPH subset. I have never complained about the game itself, but there have been many times when I, like you, have found the gameplay lamentable.
But you just can't break free from your monochrome/black & white/ binary logic. So if I say that 2K weed-wacking in a P51 is not my game, you assume that I want WW2 modelled right here - 8 hour buff sorties, 30K with oxygen masks, mixture controls, hand cranking of the emergency gear handle... You just can't see that besides Red and Violet on the WW2 warsim spectrum, there are also orange, yellow, green, blue and indigo. But no, there are no colours at all in your warsim kaleidoscope. Everything is black and white.
So when I clarify my position by saying I don't want 8 hour sorties, or to remain dead until the next tour if I am killed, you accuse me of "reversing my opinions". The only thing that's happened is that I've corrected your interpretation of what I said in the first place, but as long as you remain in binary mode, you'll never get it anyway.
Another example of your binary interpretation is your black and white assessment of people's flying if it differs from your own. To you, in your 6K ivory tower, someone is either a 25K sky accountant, or a 0K building battler. No grey matter in between - a bit like your ears on occasion. I've done plenty of jabo in this game, and participated in field capture. Do you think I can do that from 20K? But for you, it's either black, or it's white. You're either a fighter, or a war winner. Nothing in between. So you'll never understand what I enjoy in games like AH, which is an organised deployment to capture a base as well as the air-to-air combat that goes with it. Of course I'm not interested in winning the war. I can't stay online for four days at a time when Big Isles is up...
You claim to support a position of allowing anyone to play this game how he likes, but you just can't do it without snide quips like "Yet EVERY terrain allows cautious flying and war-winning strategy." or "I'd think you'd like the small, fast reset maps. Think how much faster you can win wars and rack up sacred perk points. Not to mention mutiple Hawaiian vacations and new cars!!!!!!"" Elsewhere I've seen "turnin a pony on the deck is not easy....flying it like a girlscout is. There is a big difference." You're disdainful of strategy, but strategy did not just appear there. It was put there by HTC - YES in the MA of all places - by HTC. IMO, your disdain is tantamount to telling Hitech that his game sucks.
Steve - your comments quoted by Rude (above) were spot on. :) Some people (and they know who they are!) claim to be openminded - fly what you like etc. - but when you DO that, the response is the hyprocrisy that you speak of. BTW, how's it going with that 109E? ;)
Now about map whines. The binary interpretation is that one is either a map whiner, or he isn't. But there is a grey area in between. I have never complained about a map - ie the strat on a map, vehicle bases, altitude of fields, colours, textures...
...but what I have done is to voice concern about the gameplay that is encouraged by certain maps. I have only limited time on QWW, but what I saw was exactly what I predicted if the field separation were to be reduced. Was it a) lots of early war planes, able to take advantage of the reduced distance that needed to be flown to find a fight? Or was it b) wall to wall LA7s engaging in opportunist goon hunts? hehe, that part of the equation IS black and white.
Now I'm off to look at Slap's films. :)
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Originally posted by beet1e
So you'll never understand what I enjoy in games like AH, which is an organised deployment to capture a base as well as the air-to-air combat that goes with it.
Or was it b) wall to wall LA7s engaging in opportunist goon hunts? hehe, that part of the equation IS black and white.
the contradiction here couldn't binary any more clear.
:D
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Now that you guys mention it, I really do like chorizo burritos. They are good eats!
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Originally posted by Steve
Rude, you missed my point, sorry it was a bit off thread topic. Look, I agree 100% w/ your philosophy on maps in the MA. I find Beetle's remarks to be... argumentative for the sake of arguing, lacking substance really. I mean, it could be that I do not understand but it seems to me he has chosen to take a position he cannot really support, but decides to debate regardless. Maybe I'm just obtuse.
Rude, the only exception I take to your camp is when you(your group) take issue w/ others who fly other than down in the weeds. I was bombarded w/ such insults as "sky accountant" and "cherrypicker" the other day by one of your gang. I really think it's innapropriate and hypocritical for you or your gang to make such comments as most of you come from such a background. In fact, my K/H(which one could use to gauge agressiveness) is typically a full 3 or 4 per hour higher in my pony than what your group was recording in their pony prime. Now don't mistake me, I'm not claiming to be a better pilot than anyone in your squad. My point is, that I fly at least as aggressively as any of you did in the pony and that to be called such names by your guys is.. well... unfounded.. considering I am trodding the same path you once did. Additionally, I spend significant time in my beloved FM2... I don't have much success in it... but it sure is fun!!!! :)
I understand Steve.....let me clarify.
Anyone in our sqd who shouts out Sky Accountant or other such graces does so only due to frustration and boredom....we do all within our grasp to taunt players down to earth where we all hang out.
Never take anything said from us along those lines as personal...we just get bored watching folks fly around above us and not coming down to play:)