Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Brumm on September 24, 2000, 08:57:00 PM
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Bear with me.
Flew a chog (ya ya, so sorry) and collided with other chog, whereupon my left wing cut loose. Now, looking left, all I see is the stump, ctrl-D tells me I have no left wing, no left aileron. Yet the chog can be kept in coordinated flight with liberal use of opposite rudder. It could even climb. Through a whole sector. If I hadn't groundlooped back home, I'd have walked away from the wreck too. I was too lame to try a looping, but feel pretty sure that it's entirely possible.
That ain't right. In fact, it sucks. I await an explanation why HTC and you gentlemen on this board think the FM is soooooo wonderful.
I declare it dead on arrival.
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you lost a wingtip not the wing
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Brumm,
Suggest you do a little bit more research before coming to this board and making rash accusations and ignorant demands.
Yeager
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LOL
Packin a lunch was the high spot of his day.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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Right, if you saw a "stump" you only lost your wing tip. You would still have enough lift on the left side of your plane with half a wing to stay airborne, although it would dip to the left because the right wing is providing more lift. The rudder will keep you horizontal, but it will also bleed your speed, which is, I assume, what happened.
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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York (http://www.trueorigins.net/411rcaf)
"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]
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Granted that he hurt your feelings by saying that this Flight Model is not correct. Which guys it probabaly isnt! Was 1.1 - 1.4.1 or 1.5 and on. If someone asks a question answer it if you dont know the answer shut-up!!
If you had lost an entire wing at the root you would not see the stub. You lost a partial section of your wing, example (a wingtip) The percentage lost is probably a fixed value in this version thus you see only a graphic representation of losing a piece of your wing.
Im sure as peoples connex speeds and processor speeds increase it will become more and more exact.
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OK, humbled (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I can accept flight with part of the wing being lost.
It IS hard to believe with the lack of granularity in damage report and visual feedback though, you have to grant me that .
Sorry for the huffhuff. BTW, Yeager, could you point me to the place where this has been covered before?
Brumm
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Lost a flap in a pony yesterday - since it's a part of the wing that is generating lift (on a pony!) I expected the plane "leaning" to the port and surely enough it did!
I wonder if there's any effect when losing the same (one side flap) on, say, a Spitfire (split flaps) - there shouldn't be - but in my case it looked right and felt right (or left as it happened (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)). I dare say that's pretty accurate damage (and it's effects) modelling.
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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I lost both wing tips on a C-Hog the first week I played...was a squeak to get it back to base and I lost it when I powered down to land. I replayed the film and had a good laugh at the sight of the snub winged hog, but I had heard that the graphics worked like that and thought the FM did a good job making my job tough and enjoyable.
Lars
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Well, it IS a good point that the visual depiction needs to match what the FM is doing I'd say.
Being able to fly with a missing wingtip seems at least plausible. Being able to fly with the whole wing gone is highly suspect (not just because of the aerodynamics, but the associated other damage etc).
The only problem is when the visual model doesn't match the damage model. If it says "wing damaged" and you look out there and see some wing gone, great. If it says, "wing shot off," you look out and see just a foot or two of "stub" left, and you're still flying along, not good. If you shoot some guy, see his WHOLE wing come off, and he flies around, REALLY not good (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
A problem in need of a fix, but maybe not one to get too riled up about...
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To elaborate some more on what's been said here, the visual representation showing the wing tip gone doesn't necessarily represents the whole wing tip parting company with your aircraft. It's meant to simulate a certain amount of damage being done to that wing. A better way to have visually represented this would have been to show the wing tip as shredded, with big gaping holes in it. I can only surmise that the 3D modelling engine can only handle drawing the loss of an entire and descrete component. It may also be a question of frame rates. Being able to see through the holes in the wings would mean that a "shredded" wing would have to be drawn using many more polygons than a pristine wing (or a half of a wing). I have some practical experience with 3D modelling of complex objects (aerospace vehicles, to be specific). Its a time consuming practice that is as much art as science.
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Sabre, a.k.a. Rojo
(S-2, The Buccaneers)
[This message has been edited by Rojo (edited 09-25-2000).]
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Sabre's answer is the correct one.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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I remember in "Baa Baa Black Sheep" theres a story about a guy flying between two coconut trees on a strafing pass and shearing off 3-4 feet from each wingtip, and still making it back. Anyone happen to know if this is a true story or something pappy dreamed up after a few scotches too many?
TS
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www.airsims.com (http://tailslide.firelight.dynip.com)
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I hate to snitch off my fav ride (nik). But I was in a turn fight with a couple spits. seconed one sprayed me good on the merge. So after I killed them, I checked my damage list to see if anything was wrong. I was very supprised to see I had no rudder. I started yanking it around to see if it felt any different. It didnt.
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Originally posted by Tailslide:
I remember in "Baa Baa Black Sheep" theres a story about a guy flying between two coconut trees on a strafing pass and shearing off 3-4 feet from each wingtip, and still making it back. Anyone happen to know if this is a true story or something pappy dreamed up after a few scotches too many?
TS
In "The Death Rattlers", it makes mention of one strafing run so low that when the pilot landed, there were pieces of skull lodged in the air intake on the wing root....I would say thats get low.
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Bah, the Jug is king of low-level attack damage. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
In Robert S. Johnson's "Thunderbolt", he tells of a a Jug pilot clipping a telephone pole with his wing. There is a picture of a P47 landed back at it's base with about 4 feet of telephone pole stuffed in the starboard wing. Ouch. Musta been fun to fly that beast home.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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Can't find it now but I had a picture of a P-47 that hit it's prop on the ground, bent back the first foot of each blade and STILL made it home to base.
-Westy
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I have two seperate pictures of P-38s with similar damage and both made it home.
The first literally chopped off a telephone pole in North Africa to the point that one wing is bent back at a 45 degree angle and then engine almost ripped off its mounting.
The Second is a P38 that collided with a British bomber. Its entire front edged is heavily damaged.
Its amazing some of the damage that aircraft could take and still make it home.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Hi easymo,
Originally posted by easymo:
So after I killed them, I checked my damage list to see if anything was wrong. I was very supprised to see I had no rudder. I started yanking it around to see if it felt any different. It didnt.
I think the key to this is you killed him, I posted a similar point in the Bugs forum ages ago. but assumed it had been fixed. It would appear that if you get damaged in a fight but kill the person responsible the damage still shows in external views and damage list, but the lost control is regained. Perhaps this needs a punt in the bugs section.
TTFN
snafu
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Just one problem with F4u flying without wingtip compared to others;
F4u *should* have big torque that would make change of air flow lethal with high throttle.. (though, you can fly almost at any speed safely in F4u with cut wingtip and even fight! seen it, done it)
Me109 has worst torque of planes in AH (surprises me, because I thought F4u was the ensign eliminator) and it can't keep well up with wingtip cut off.
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Fishu, check the horsepower of the F4U and the Me109G10.
Both are around 2,000hp depending on WEP/non-WEP, and should therefore produce something in the same range of torque. (Yes I know there are alot of other factors involved, but it works for a rough demonstration)
Now look up the wingspan of each, plus the normal loaded weight.
Now lets talk physics. So if you think of the wing of the plane as a lever and the rest of the plane as a rock that has to be moved (or held steady in this case).
A long lever produces more force to move the rock(or hold the rock from moving) and a heavier rock takes more force to start moving (force from the engine torque).
So the 109G10 has a shorter wing in relation to the F4U in the first place, so when you remove half of it, in comparison produces less force to keep it steady. Also the G10 weighs less, so it takes less torque force from the engine to make it begin to move (and the G10 to F4U torque relationship is about equal).
In other words, its working exactly the way its suppose to be.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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I got to find squelch vermillion from this UBB, because hes getting boring without 'input' plug, but his 'output' is really active though.
Vermillion,
I am not going to try arque with you anymore because you don't even want to listen.
(and therefore it isn't even arquing anymore..)
So have fun with that BS of yours till you learn to listen.
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Fishu, don't take the name "ensign eliminator" out of context. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The US had a hate song and derogatory name for every plane they flew.
- Jig