Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuckins on November 03, 2003, 05:29:25 PM
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Quote: Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini, appointed Grand Mufti of Jerusalem by Sir Herbert Samuel, the High Commissioner of British Mandatory Palestine in 1921, played a central role in introducing the ideology and tactics of the National Socialism of Adolf Hitler into the Arab world. In a career that spanned more than 5 decades, el-Husseini contributed to the development of Nazi style organizations in Arab capitals, acted as a conduit for money confiscated from Jews by the Nazis during World War II to be used to finance anti-Jewish and anti-Israel activities, and lived in Berlin during the war years where he headed a Nazi-Muslim government in exile. (end quote)
For more information about this relatively unknown master of genocide, click on the link listed below:
http://chuckmorse.com/muftism.html
Admittedly, this is a pro-Israeli site, and the author undoubtedly has an axe to grind. Nevertheless, it does offer a great deal of information about the origins of much of the violence that has plagued the Middle East in modern times. El-Husseini was an officer in the Turkish army that murdered more than one million Armenian Christians during World War I. He helped organized an all-Muslim SS unit in Nazi Germany. He was involved in the massacre of Serbian Christians in Yugoslavia during World War II, and also had a hand in organizing the "final solution" in Nazi Germany. He was also the mentor of such Middle Eastern leaders as Gamal Abdel Nasser, Saddam Hussein, and Yasir Arafat ( who is his nephiew.
A fascinating read.
Regards, Shuckins
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there aint an arab born that would make a wart on Adolfs Arse.
although insaine Adolf was very smart.
And you'r camel jockey on the evolutionary tree is still at root level.:rofl
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Yep, I think I have seen some pictures of SS soldiers in "Totenkopf" FEZ in a book.
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Given that Arabs are semities they sure made a "deal with the devil" there. Had the Nazis won they would have found out very quickly just how stupid they were to do so.
Off to the camps they would have marched.
Idiots.
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Originally posted by crabofix
Yep, I think I have seen some pictures of SS soldiers in "Totenkopf" FEZ in a book.
Those were probaly Bosnian muslims, I think the Ustashe set that up somehow although since they were often fanatic catholics it doesnt fully make sense. Anyway Himmler was apprently very positive on Islam as he found the relgions promises of glory in the afterlife for death in 'battle" to be very very convenient and useful for soldiers... Of course this message still has appeal today....
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Given that Arabs are semities they sure made a "deal with the devil" there.
The Mufti's actions are not the most bizarre. Lehi, one of the terrorist organisations operating at the time in Palestine, and jointly headed by Yitzhak Shamir, opened contact with the Nazis in 1941, suggesting an alliance to defeat the British, (and I think offering Palestine as a destination to which Hitler could deport the Jews of Europe).
Lehi kept up attacks on British forces in the ME throughout the war, when most Jewish orginisations had sided with britain.
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Curval: Given that Arabs are semities they sure made a "deal with the devil" there. Had the Nazis won they would have found out very quickly just how stupid they were to do so.
Off to the camps they would have marched.
Wow. You must have came out with this yourself as I've never heard anything so err... weird and illogical.
You think that just because some some ashkenazi jews - who may not even be semites, if some of their scientists are to be believed - arrogantly labeled their detractors "antisemites", the germans who had dislike for jews would somehow feel obliged to persecute arabs as well?
miko
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Miko has a point. Although I think Curval does too - do any of us doubt that the Nazis would have turned on their "allies" after winning the war? How could you trust hitler to keep his word?
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Nashwan: ...not the most bizarre. Lehi, one of the terrorist organisations operating at the time in Palestine, and jointly headed by Yitzhak Shamir, opened contact with the Nazis in 1941, suggesting an alliance to defeat the British, (and I think offering Palestine as a destination to which Hitler could deport the Jews of Europe).
Considering that Hitler's plans originally did not include physical extermination of the jews and other minorities them, the actions of those zionists do not sound so bizzare and are quite in line with those their pragmatic approach.
Lehi kept up attacks on British forces in the ME throughout the war, when most Jewish orginisations had sided with britain.
Temporarily and not entirely selflessly. The way the Jewish Brigade exploited their unique position for sneaking in all the people and arms under the british noses is a facinating story. They always intended to blow brits away if those did not clear our fast enough.
miko
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GRUNHERZ: Miko has a point. Although I think Curval does too - do any of us doubt that the Nazis would have turned on their "allies" after winning the war? How could you trust hitler to keep his word?
It has nothing to do with trusting anyone - also they were no less trustworthy than any other power. Nazis had very specific doctrine and annexing lands in Africa was completely contrary to it. They may have been evil but they were not erratic.
miko
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Miko; are you AI?
I agree, however, with your postulations in this thread.
Any one care to define "State sponsored terrorism" for $10?
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I think the SS guys in the fezzes were Turkish volunteers.
MRPLUTO
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What makes you think the Nazis wouldnt want to extend their power to the mid east and africa and beyond? For example after winning WW2 do you think they would just leave the suez canal to the british or under arab control?
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Originally posted by MRPLUTO
I think the SS guys in the fezzes were Turkish volunteers.
MRPLUTO
No I am pretty sure they where from yugoslavia. Cant find the book, but RSHA had writen some kind of doctrine about the "bosnian muslims" being some kind of "uberrace" equal to the aries. I think the documents covered 1500 years back in history.
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Originally posted by miko2d
Considering that Hitler's plans originally did not include physical extermination of the jews and other minorities them, the actions of those zionists do not sound so bizzare and are quite in line with those their pragmatic approach.
AND
It has nothing to do with trusting anyone - also they were no less trustworthy than any other power. Nazis had very specific doctrine and annexing lands in Africa was completely contrary to it. They may have been evil but they were not erratic.
miko
Those are contradictory statements.... Just how much do the nazis hold to their plans and doctorines? By your own words you prove they were willing to deviate far enough from their plans to design and carry out the systematic extermination of 12 million people...
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Originally posted by miko2d
Nazis had very specific doctrine and annexing lands in Africa was completely contrary to it. They may have been evil but they were not erratic.
miko
So, how where they planning getting the Rawrubber for their warmachine? The syntetic rubber wherent that good/enough and the amount delivered by Japan in subs, where not enough.
the Original warplan was to start at 1948.
Just curiouse.
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GRUNHERZ: What makes you think the Nazis wouldnt want to extend their power to the mid east and africa and beyond? For example after winning WW2 do you think they would just leave the suez canal to the british or under arab control?
Just the carefull study of their doctrines and writings checked against their actual actions. My copy of Mein Kampf is annotated, highlited and dog-eared.
Those are contradictory statements.... Just how much do the nazis hold to their plans and doctorines? By your own words you prove they were willing to deviate far enough from their plans to design and carry out the systematic extermination of 12 million people...
Nothing contradictory here. He had not planed to exterminate those people except under certain conditions towards which Hitler was not looking forward to - namely the mortal threat to the existence of the Reich. Read the part of Mein Kampf on the lessons he derived from post - WWI breakdown - specifically on the role the released inmates (communists, etc.) played.
The physical exterminaton did not start well into the war - when Germany's weaknesses became obvious.
Again, Hitler was evil but he was quite consistent. He was looking to win, not lose. If he won, the ews would probably not ended as close to Germany as Palestine - maybe in Madagascar...
crabofix: So, how where they planning getting the Rawrubber for their warmachine? The syntetic rubber wherent that good/enough and the amount delivered by Japan in subs, where not enough.
They did not expect the war to last forever. Hitler wanted to remove Germany from the world trade as much as possible and leave it to British. Yes, he openly called not to compete with British but let them have the world outside Germany and the trade as well. He believed brits had qualities/experience that germans lacked in dealing with the lower races.
The idea of colonising - especially in palces geographically separated from the mainland - was anathema to nazis. They did not want to mix their people with any lower races. On the territories they considered vital for them to have, they planned an elaborate segregated communities for germans so they do not come into contact with local people.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Curval: Given that Arabs are semities they sure made a "deal with the devil" there. Had the Nazis won they would have found out very quickly just how stupid they were to do so.
Off to the camps they would have marched.
Wow. You must have came out with this yourself as I've never heard anything so err... weird and illogical.
You think that just because some some ashkenazi jews - who may not even be semites, if some of their scientists are to be believed - arrogantly labeled their detractors "antisemites", the germans who had dislike for jews would somehow feel obliged to persecute arabs as well?
miko
Whatever Miko...I guess they didn't regard other "races", "creeds", "populus" as sub-human and liquidate at will. Even Germans of a particular "sexual orientation","mental health state" etc etc?
I'm sure they would have treated Arabs differently. :rolleyes:
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So Nazi Germany expends massive amounts of men and material to defeat the british in North Africa and the Mid-East and then just cheerfully gives it back to the Brits after the war is over.
Miko I think your are one of those gys who is so proud to show he reads so much and how much he thinks he knows that you often miss the point entirely...
Tell me right now, the germans would give egypt back to the brits.. Cmon tell me.
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The 13th Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Handschar:
Handschar was a Waffen-SS division of Bosnian Muslim volunteers.
Both the Ustashe and Chetniks attacked and massacred Bosnian Muslims. Some Bosnians appealed to Hitler to make Bosnia a German protectorate.
The Handschar division was raised in 1943. The unit included Imams, Fez headgear, special rations (no pork) and a revised ideological curriculum light on the "master race" talk but stressing the Nazi-Muslim friendship.
(http://www.wssob.com/images/coll_13.gif)
.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So Nazi Germany expends massive amounts of men and material to defeat the british in North Africa and the Mid-East and then just cheerfully gives it back to the Brits after the war is over.
....(Personal attack omitted)....
Tell me right now, the germans would give egypt back to the brits.. Cmon tell me.
Basically Germans entered in North Africa on request of it's ally, Italy, after the initial "good" period, and they did'nt expend too much in it, about 2 divisions (if I remember correctly the 15th PzD and 21st PzGrenD, but I may have switched numbers), the bulk of men (and blood) on the axis side in the Africa campaign was on Italy, until the last defence of Tunisy.
But has been a silent war, where the "Star" (Rommel and his cronies) has become famous, and the "comprimaris" (thousands of Italian soldiers) are lost in the fogs of the past.
Anyway, I guess, IF, the axis would have arrived to Alexandria, Mr. Adolf would have leaved Italy to deal with the newly acquired colonies (in fact the North Africa war was an Italian campaign, Germany was there to help, like, viceversa, happened with the Italian troops sent to die in the Russian steppes).
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Originally posted by Nashwan
The Mufti's actions are not the most bizarre. Lehi, one of the terrorist organisations operating at the time in Palestine, and jointly headed by Yitzhak Shamir, opened contact with the Nazis in 1941, suggesting an alliance to defeat the British, (and I think offering Palestine as a destination to which Hitler could deport the Jews of Europe).
Lehi kept up attacks on British forces in the ME throughout the war, when most Jewish orginisations had sided with britain.
the lehi (Israel freedom fighters) were a terrorist organization by todays standards.
Luckily, the represented a very small portion of the jewish population in Palestine.
Their leader, Itzhak Shamir, became Israel's prime minister in the 80's - that didn't make much sense. But enough idiots voted for Sharon as well and that doesn't make sense either.
conclusion from all the above examples:
the middle east does not make sense.
Bozon
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Curval: Whatever Miko...I guess they didn't regard other "races", "creeds", "populus" as sub-human and liquidate at will.
I'm sure they would have treated Arabs differently.
They did. So what?
Their main concern was to keep the german population together and get rid of the "contamination" inside - not outside. Considering the worst case for arabs - unchanging doctrine and continuing population growth (both wildly unrealistic) - it would have been a while before the german nation grew to such extent that their territorial expansion brough them against arabs.
GRUNHERZ: So Nazi Germany expends massive amounts of men and material to defeat the british in North Africa and the Mid-East and then just cheerfully gives it back to the Brits after the war is over.
They would probably offered it to turks or egyprians or italians - but maybe to brits. That's what Hitler proposed before the war.
According to their doctrine, the colonial posessions were not a desirable asset but a source of mortal danger to the race.
Miko I think your are one of those gys who is so proud to show he reads so much and how much he thinks he knows that you often miss the point entirely...
How do you know I miss the point? I may be mistaken here and there but you have no phone line to god either to know how the history would have developed.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Curval: Whatever Miko...I guess they didn't regard other "races", "creeds", "populus" as sub-human and liquidate at will.
I'm sure they would have treated Arabs differently.
They did. So what?
Their main concern was to keep the german population together and get rid of the "contamination" inside - not outside. Considering the worst case for arabs - unchanging doctrine and continuing population growth (both wildly unrealistic) - it would have been a while before the german nation grew to such extent that their territorial expansion brough them against arabs.
Rrrrright....I guess by "inside" you mean Poland, Russia etc? Inside their conquored territory?
So it would take them a while..so what?
Fact is, sooner or later they would have wanted to clean up all of their territories of undesirables. Given the fact that Arabs are quite different from their concepts of an Ayrian race I think had the Nazis won, that Arabs would have eventually had a hard time of it under Nazi rule.
To think otherwise is naieve at best.
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Curval: Given the fact that Arabs are quite different from their concepts of an Ayrian race I think had the Nazis won, that Arabs would have eventually had a hard time of it under Nazi rule.
Right. The arabs of those times could have expected trouble from nazis in a few thousand years - and would have been wrong, because as we all know, the western societies stopped growing numerically, despite any government promotion programms.
As the matters stood, it was not nazis but british and french that gassed tens of thousands of them just a few years before and kept oppressing and tyranising and killing them and stealing their resources.
You forget that arabs had to contend with more urgent problems than a danger in a remote future.
Without british around, cooperating with nazis would not make much sense. But there were british and french around running the Middle East with an iron fist.
Which reminds me - it was stupid on the western countries part to help the international radical muslim fundamantalism against the dooomed soviet takeover of Afghanistan.
More stupid than arabs' cooperation with the nazis. Still, it seemed like a good idea at the time to some.
miko