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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on August 14, 2000, 07:29:00 AM

Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Ripsnort on August 14, 2000, 07:29:00 AM
I realize that some dislike all the radar altogether.  This thread is NOT for total disband of  current radar, but only for disbanding DOT RADAR.

If you'd like to see dot dar disabled, gimme a AMEN.

If you'd like to see radar stay the way it is, gimme an "UP YOURS!".   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Edit: DOH! Supposed to be in Gameplay and feedback forum.  Sorry!

------------------
Ripsnort(-rip1-)
=CO= VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Know your limits and then go beyond.."
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/vmf323inquirer.html)
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I spare no class or cult or  creed,
My course is endless through the year.
I bow all heads and break all hearts,
All owe homage-I am Fear.

-------------General Patton

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-14-2000).]
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: StSanta on August 14, 2000, 07:45:00 AM
I'll give up dot dar when you give up C-Hog  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).



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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: JimBear on August 14, 2000, 07:47:00 AM
Amen on no Dot Dar.....except on StSanta  
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: funked on August 14, 2000, 07:48:00 AM
AMEN unless you are in the tower.
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: RAM on August 14, 2000, 07:50:00 AM


Dot dar recreates CGI in WWII. Ripsnort you who like so much the P61 should know that in WWII american ground radar controllers were able to vector fighters towards enemy SINGLE cons...with an error of only a few kilometers.

Same happened on Germany with the radar chain system from France to Germany.

SOrry if you dont like it. I see it as another realistic feature.

what I dont see realistic IS radar bars showing enemy activity 4-5 sectors away from your nearest radar field. THAT is unrealistic.

Dar dots isn't.

So...
UP YOURS!!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: popeye on August 14, 2000, 07:58:00 AM
pssssst....

You can kill the radar.   Don't tell anyone I told you.    (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Seriously, it amazes me how often a field will be attacked -- for hours -- and no one kills the dar.  We all want Strat right?  The radar is a valuable Strat target, worthy of a bomb or two.

UP YOURS     (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)


popeye
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: lasse on August 14, 2000, 08:02:00 AM
AMEN unless you are in the tower.
   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

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 (http://home.sol.no/~laerga/lassel.gif)  
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-

[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 08-14-2000).]
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Ripsnort on August 14, 2000, 08:05:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta:
I'll give up dot dar when you give up C-Hog    (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).



I'll give up CHog  when you fly the CHog for one tour and maintain a 5.5 K/D Ratio.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)



[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-14-2000).]
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: funked on August 14, 2000, 08:17:00 AM
"Dot dar recreates CGI in WWII."

ROFL

Dot dar recreates AWACS data link display in F-22 in WWIII.
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: RAM on August 14, 2000, 08:24:00 AM
Then hispanos on Spitfires and Chogs recreates M61 Gatling guns in WWII.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-14-2000).]
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Jigster on August 14, 2000, 08:32:00 AM
Up yours, amen.

Er...gimme window countermeasures.

- Jig
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Ripsnort on August 14, 2000, 08:35:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Jigster:
Up yours, amen.

Er...gimme window countermeasures.

- Jig

Just tear some aluminum strips up and place them on your monitor, works for me!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Ghosth on August 14, 2000, 09:41:00 AM
Amen,

dot dar belongs in tower.

Chute killers should have no dar at all for 24 hours after killing a chute.

Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Wanker on August 14, 2000, 12:25:00 PM
Amen, unless you're in the tower.
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: pzvg on August 14, 2000, 12:28:00 PM
Leave the dar, kill the icons, then you can fly that intercept, but if more than one of ya gets the same bright idea, y'all hafta figger out which dot is the bad guy  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Apache on August 14, 2000, 12:39:00 PM
Amen, tower only.

------------------
Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Wardog on August 14, 2000, 01:17:00 PM
Mute point here guys.

I talked to HT back in beta and he said they will not change the dots on dar for cons. Coming outa WBs i was not interested in an Air Warrior Radar system.

Dots should be allowed in Tower only and on any plane that had Radar onboard. This is where the p61, me410 , and a few other planes would come in handy. Ive seen a Night Fighter version of the FW190 with radar on it. These planes would add greatly to AH.

Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Nath-BDP on August 14, 2000, 01:21:00 PM
Soon as dot dar came out in beta I made a topic against it... soo... amen.
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: minus on August 14, 2000, 01:43:00 PM
on tower  radar bar , and how about reduced icon range and replace type icon be red dot
/anyway if not show up at 9 k green with nick is it enemy  an enemy will have
surprise adv  like in real life,, when below  5 k red dot no plane type so u can catch up visual danger, distance show up  below  1 k or 800 so
long range hogs kill will never sure where they are  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Tac on August 14, 2000, 01:44:00 PM
This is interesting!

Why not MIX several of the ideas/complains here and come up with a solution?

So far we have:
1) Real life WW2 planes were vectored into enemy by ground control.
2) Dot Radar allowed only in tower
3) You can kill radar, albeit something as vital as fuel tanks and ammo dumps when attacking a field.
4) Radar shows bars on sectors way on the other side of the map.
5) Radar equipped planes (hopefully soon to be introduced) should be the only ones to have dot radar on their clipboard.

So how can we get this taken care of?

In my opinion, AH would be better off by:

-Removing dot radar from clipboard (except in radar equipped planes) and allowing it only in towers. Note: If radar is destroyed in field, you lose dot dar in that sector, just as it is now.

(this would create LOTS of player cooperation and tower-stationed players to vector other planes)

-Bar radar should only show red bars when 1-2 sectors away from radar field.

-make radar TOWERS in the fields (perhaps, between VH and airfield, or one tower in each corner of the airfield?), not that little satellite tv dish thats entrenched in the airfields. Nuke that tower (immune to strafing by cannon and MG preferably.. it would be like trying to strafe a telephone post) and the field loses its dot dar in tower and red bar dar in the sectors it covers)

Historically, the LW was aware of the English radar BEFORE the Battle of Britain and they did tried with considerable effort to kill the british radar towers that were on plain sight by the coast. Problem was, the Stukas and Dorniers couldn't hit such small targets, and if they ever did, the tower was back up the next morning. Heavy losses made such venture impossible (and coincidentally, it was after those attack that the Stuka was taken out of the front line!)

-make nights longer (1 hour of night, 4 hours of daylight?) and add FLARES to the Buff's inventory. That way a lead buff could mark the spot and the other buffs carpet bomb at night. Night fighters would then enter into the arena with a niche of their own. It would also be cooled if AH had player controlled spotlights to vector fighters hehehe.. I can only dream!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Comments? Flames?
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: StSanta on August 14, 2000, 01:54:00 PM
 
Quote
I'll give up CHog when you fly the CHog for one tour and maintain a 5.5 K/D Ratio

Ew rip. That's akin to say "I will give up the c hog when you eat and drink your on waste products".

Won't happen. I won't even come close to a chog, if I do not intend to kill it.

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)



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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Ripsnort on August 14, 2000, 01:58:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by StSanta:
Ew rip. That's akin to say "I will give up the c hog when you eat and drink your on waste products".

Won't happen. I won't even come close to a chog, if I do not intend to kill it.

  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)



I understand completely Santa, after all, it takes skill and talent to handle the hog, just stay high in your -2nd Fastest, best-climbing-G10 !  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
<G,D,R>
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Fishu on August 14, 2000, 02:05:00 PM
Get rid of sector radar and I am happy.

Only leave field radars if those are still up on the field.

btw. they could include some sort of surveillance on vehicle fields also, i don't think they are just camping there, there should be more attention than on air fields.

Theres just rare times when sector counter is destroyed, just because there isn't enough players to be organized so often that it would be for good use. (mostly that HQ goes down only when enemy is close enough to do it from nearby field, not when theres couple fields blocking it)

Warbirds had good radar, which pointed direction for most enemies/friendlies!
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Dnil on August 14, 2000, 03:20:00 PM
hey rip, if I maintain a 5.5 k/d in a chog will ya give it up?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

look up stats for skyhawk in the 1c, doh!

------------------
Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back :)
Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer (http://www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer)
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Swager on August 14, 2000, 05:13:00 PM
I don't care one way or another!  I just want to say this to Ripsnort!

UP YOURS!!!!!!


 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)


Ahhhhh!  Feel much better!!
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Soda on August 14, 2000, 05:31:00 PM
Fly under 500ft and you won't have a dot on dar, only a bar  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

I think the dots help expidite the battle a bit when you are close to an friendly base, otherwise we'd have to fly around forever looking for help.  Since you'll never convince anyone in the tower to relay information to the fighters, this is the best I think we can do.  They only work in a sector with a friendly field anyway.

Soda
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: g00bd0g on August 14, 2000, 05:46:00 PM
untill we have dedicated tower based players to vector us fighter to the nme, we need dot dar. It only simulates what a ground based controller would tell you. And BTW, wouldn't radar give you altitude as well?
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: StSanta on August 14, 2000, 08:00:00 PM
rip, it takes as much skill as opening a can of spam  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).

I'll see you below 20k  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)



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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: fradim on August 14, 2000, 08:06:00 PM
AMEN unless you are in the tower.
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: rosco- on August 15, 2000, 07:56:00 AM
 I would say no inflight radar at all cept when in the tower. Exceptions would be planes equipped with radar that may be added in the future, and then it should be limited compared to what we have now.

 This was implimanted in DOA and the gameplay improved drasticly.
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Ripsnort on August 15, 2000, 08:06:00 AM
Holy Cow Dnil !!!  you flying above 20k in that thing!?!  NIIIIIIIICE!

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-15-2000).]
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Westy on August 15, 2000, 08:06:00 AM
 I don't mind the color bands in a grid square when in flight. But I've always been a proponant of "no dots on the 'dar" - except for a pre-launch "intell" check when in the map room or the tower.

 -Westy
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: danish on August 15, 2000, 08:35:00 AM
Amen.

danish
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Dnil on August 15, 2000, 08:52:00 AM
Actually no rip, I do most my jabo work in it.  I deack fields and cause general mayhem in it.  Now look at my 38 stats, pretty pathetic huh?  I fly both exactly the same way.  I B&Z in both, I turn fight in the N1k, where my stats are avg.  Just learning the G10, pretty happy with those to.

------------------
Dnil---Skyhawk until I get Dnil back :)
Maj. 900th Bloody Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer (http://www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer)
Title: Just Say No To Dot Radar:
Post by: Rojo on August 15, 2000, 12:52:00 PM
GCI argument is valid...to a point.  Ground controllers did give vector/course/speed of targets to airborne fighters (so long as a friendly radar had contact with the target), but did not and could not give the airborn pilot precise location info, and certainly not on ALL contacts in theater.  So, the dots should go unless you're in the tower...period.  

While in the air, my preference would be to use friendly and enemy bearing-arrows, along with radar bar.  However, I also feel the bandit vectors should only work if a con is being tracked by YOUR radar. You should be able to select whether the arrow points at the "nearest threat" or the "largest threat within XX miles" using a dot-command.  I also feel strongly that if you are below radar and not transmitting over the radio, you should not show up on the enemy's radar bar either.

Automated GCI messages generated by the Host could be used to announce the location and heading of large enemy formations spotted by your radar-- killing the HQ should disable these Otto-GCI messages for the owning country.  There are a number of variations on these ideas that could be implemented, of cours.

Historical Note: GCI in WWII was nowhere near infallible or omnisceint.  It could give fairly accurate bearing and target speed, but was incapable of giving anything but the grossest estimate of the size of a raid or it's altitude.  The point of having radar in AH is to help you find a fight, and to allow organized resistance to attacks on your homeland.  It should not take the place of good pilot SA.  The fact is, most of the kills in real life came as a surprise to the victim, because the poor, overworked GCI director could not be on the horn to every pilot in the air.  During the BoB, more intercepts failed than succeeded, simply because of the time lag involved in taking all the different inputs from radar, radio intercept, and visual sightings and peicing together a semi-coherent picture of the threat and getting that info to the pointy-end of the spear (the pilot in the cocpit). Over the Continent, the Germans had somewhat better results, but mainly because the Allied formations were so huge.

A final word on night-fighter ops: The radar on these aircraft were of comparitively short range, and could essentially only point in the forward direction (with a "spot-light" or acquisition cone of a realatively narrow arc).  GCI was used to place the night-fighter close enough -- and point him in the right direction -- to place the intruder inside the rather narrow detection envelope of the airborn radar.  The radar was kept on "stand-by mode until GCI told them to "light-up;" this kept their presence a secret from their intended victims.

Sorry for the long post, but radar and radar signatures were my business once upon a time.

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Sabre, a.k.a. Rojo
(S-2, The Buccaneers)

[This message has been edited by Rojo (edited 08-15-2000).]