Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mrblack on November 10, 2003, 01:31:03 AM
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Gore: Bush Has Failed to Make U.S. Safer
1 hour, 53 minutes ago Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!
By JENNIFER C. KERR, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - Former Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites) accused President Bush (news - web sites) on Sunday of failing to make the country safer after the Sept. 11 attacks and using the war against terrorism as a pretext to consolidate power.
AP Photo
"They have taken us much farther down the road toward an intrusive, 'big brother'-style government — toward the dangers prophesied by George Orwell in his book '1984' — than anyone ever thought would be possible in the United States of America," Gore charged in a speech.
Gore, who lost the disputed 2000 presidential election to Bush, said terrorism-fighting tools granted after Sept. 11 amount to a partisan power grab that have led to the erosion of the civil liberties of all Americans.
He brought many the crowd of 3,000 to their feet when he called for a repeal of the Patriot Act, which expanded government's surveillance and detention power, allowing authorities to monitor books people read and conduct secret searches.
Gore chided the administration for what he said was its "implicit assumption" that Americans must give up traditional freedoms in order to be safe from terrorists.
"In my opinion, it makes no more sense to launch an assault on our civil liberties as the best way to get at terrorists than it did to launch an invasion of Iraq (news - web sites) as the best way to get at Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)," Gore said.
In both cases, Gore said, the administration has "recklessly put our country in grave and unnecessary danger."
He also said the administration still has "no serious strategy" for domestic security — charging that there aren't sufficient protections in place for ports, nuclear facilities, chemical plants and other key infrastructure.
His speech was sponsored by the liberal activist group Moveon.org, which earlier this year held an online presidential primary in which Howard Dean (news - web sites) finished first.
The second sponsor, the American Constitution Society, is a national organization of law students, professors, lawyers and others that says it seek to counter what it characterizes as the dominant, narrow conservative vision of American law today.
The Patriot Act was passed overwhelmingly by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, but has been under attack by liberals and even many conservatives who say the law intrudes too much into Americans' lives in the name of fighting terror.
Democrats have been trying to build support in the Senate to rolling back portions of the law and some Republicans say it needs to be changed.
"The Patriot Act crossed the line on several key areas of civil liberties," Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill, a member of the Senhate Judiciary Committee (news - web sites) said last month.
Changes must be made to the law if it is to be renewed in 2005, agreed GOP Sen. Larry Craig of Idaho, another member of the Judiciary Committee.
WHAT a TOOL
:D
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Is he a tool for:
a. What he said
or b. Who he is while saying it?
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He is a "tool" for being absolutely correct.
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He brought many the crowd of 3,000 to their feet when he called for a repeal of the Patriot Act, which expanded government's surveillance and detention power, allowing authorities to monitor books people read and conduct secret searches.
Gore chided the administration for what he said was its "implicit assumption" that Americans must give up traditional freedoms in order to be safe from terrorists.
"In my opinion, it makes no more sense to launch an assault on our civil liberties as the best way to get at terrorists than it did to launch an invasion of Iraq (news - web sites) as the best way to get at Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)," Gore said.
Wow, maybe he should have won.
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I just watched his speech on CSPAN.
The man has really come a long way as far as being interesting
to listen to but I just cant bring myself to regard what he has to say as anything much past the partison politics he so loudly complains about.
Im saddened that the democratic party has slid so far to the extreme liberal left that they have basically created the rope that they are hanging themselves from. No place for conservative or moderate democrats to roost. Dean knows it but when he trys to reach out to those who have abandoned a critical and demaning party platform he is invariably roasted by the likes of Kerry and Edwards.
The trick is for the republicans to continue to provide a safe port
for people who consider themselves democrats but conservative or moderate while maintaining a similar port for the more moderate and liberal republicans to enjoy. Somehow I think they will manage...with people like Gore to focus in on that cant be too hard a thing to manage.
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This just in...Al Gore invents "spin" :p
Did you really expect anything else from Gore? I mean, really?
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This from the guy who wants to take all your guns and cars away "for your own good".
lazs
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If you won the popular vote but lost the election, you would be sore also.
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The great irony of gore's speach is that he criticizes the Patriot Act for it's restriction of freedoms. Would have been more apropriate if he just admitted he feels the wrong freedoms are being restricted.
BTW... I don't recall the Patriot Act being partisan based. I hate the bill myself as do alot of Republicans I know. Alot of Democrats I know feel it doesn't go far enough.
Oh well.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
BTW... I don't recall the Patriot Act being partisan based. I hate the bill myself as do alot of Republicans I know. Alot of Democrats I know feel it doesn't go far enough.
You hit that on the head. It's becoming increasingly more difficult to identify republicans or democrats. Perfect example is Swarzenegger...
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Originally posted by Mini D
BTW... I don't recall the Patriot Act being partisan based. I hate the bill myself as do alot of Republicans I know. Alot of Democrats I know feel it doesn't go far enough.
Oh well.
MiniD
Minor changes were made in the House, which passed the bill 357 to 66. The Senate and House versions were quickly reconciled, and the Act was signed into law on October 26, 2001.
It has a lot of Democratic supports.
http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/
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Referring to "Al-Quida Gore" and his remarks to these quasi-communist organizations, I'd like to coin a new term. This type of rhetoric, in time of war and with our troops in harms way, is nothing short of "political terrorism." It undercuts national will, is harder on the moral of our deployed troops than most comprehend, and plays right into the desires of the enemies of a free and democratic Iraq. Voice concern if you must; provide constructive suggestions if you have them. But accusing the CinC of deliberately using the 9-11 attacks as a means of increasing his power and curtailing civil liberties is cowardly at best and treasonous at worst. That goes for the Deans, Kerrys, and Kennedys as well.
Can anyone tell me who in this country has had their civil liberties wrongly curtailed as a direct result of the Patriot Act? Sen. Fienstien of CA (whom I dislike, but respect because she actually bothered to read the PA) asked the ACLU, who is sueing the FedGov over the PA, how many cases they could site. Their answer? Zero! She went on to say that the majority of complaints about the PA received by her office concerned provisions of the PA that don't actually exist. They were either considered but left off, or were never more than "vapor-provisions" in the first place. Rumors circulated to create a sense of fear of the PA in the minds of the uneducated.
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Gore is a worthless politician, what has he ever done of substance that he should judge others?
Oh yeah, he solicitied funds from the White House in violation of the law. He sold nights in the Lincoln bedroom to those who contributed greatly to the Democratic election fund (of which he would take great advantage while running for President).
He showed neither loyalty to Clintion nor moral outrage by Clintons behavior, instead sitting quietly on the fence trying to serve his own political future.
He allowed pathetic tactics to move forward trying to win the election that he did LOSE. Anyone who hasn't learned it yet, the popular vote does not elect a President, the electoral college does. Been that way forever, I even learned it in grade school, where they told us "it's possible to get the most popular votes, but lose the electoral college and lose the election".
I am thankful that Bush did win, since Gore would have done absolutely nothing of substance to eliminate terrorism, instead he would have probably gone around apologizing for the World Trade Center buildings having gotten in the way of those poor Muslim pilots.
I hate Gore almost as much as I hate Hillary and Bill, and Barbra Streisand. He is just slightly less naueseating.
dago
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Originally posted by Sabre
Can anyone tell me who in this country has had their civil liberties wrongly curtailed as a direct result of the Patriot Act?
Actually, there are two Americans at GITMO in Cuba, that have been denied their constitutional rights. they are not allowed to see their attornies nor are they allowed to refute the charges against them. Their liberty to lead their lives in the last 18 months has been taken away from them. If the government believes they have comitted a crime, the government is obligated to charge them with a crime and allow them a speedy trial to determine if they are guilty or innocent. Instead the government is holding them indefinately with out charges depriving them of their constitutional rights and liberty.
Their case as well as the 600 held there is not in the hands of the Supreme court.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/10/scotus.detainees/index.html
It's likely that most of those detained were combatants. However, it's also likely that one or two are not... They were at the wrong place, at the wrong time.
America either is based upon the constitution or it is not. An act of Congress and an executive order can not override the rights the Constitution gives each citizen (also each non-citizen.. yes the Supreme Court has rule that the constitution applies to non-citizens also).
The question before the court will be is GITMO defacto US territory, do US courts have jurisprudence and can a US citizen's constitutional rights to due process be arbitrarily waved by the attorney general....
Don't change that bat channel....
This will be an interesting decision....
Presidents have been bucked before... and they have been deferred too also...
All the previous federal apeals decisions have favored the governement... so why are the Supremes jumping?
to either make the decisions iron clad... or to correct a wrong.
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Originally posted by Dago
Gore is a worthless politician, what has he ever done of substance that he should judge others?
He "invented the internet" (aka funded ARPA)which is allowing YOU to write your opposition to his policies and his political career.
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DN, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Patriot Act had nothing to do with those two cases you speak of. Those individuals were incarcerated under a provision in place since well before the PA was inacted. Specifically, it was last used by FDR in WWII, to hold an American citizen declared an enemy combatant. In that particular case, the man was arrested for helping German sabatours and spies that slipped into the country off of a U-boat. This is exactly the kind of thing Sen. Fienstien was talking about. "Vapor-provision."
And yes, it will be interesting to see how it is resolved. So far, the legal challenges to the holding of these two men have been unsuccessful, mostly due to the precident set by FDR and upheld by the Supreme Court back in 1944 (or there abouts).
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this moveon.org outfit was started by democrats who wanted to "move on " after the Clinton thing, I guess what they really meant was move on to bashing republicans :)
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
Actually, there are two Americans at GITMO in Cuba, that have been denied their constitutional rights.
I asked you in another thread to show me an American citizen, arrested on American soil, that is being held in Cuba. I have yet to see an example. I would still be interested in reading an article, not an op-ed piece, citing such examples.
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Found that old thread
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99626&highlight=Cuba
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Actually, there are two Americans at GITMO in Cuba, that have been denied their constitutional rights. they are not allowed to see their attornies nor are they allowed to refute the charges against them
When you join a foreign enemy and take up arms against the USA, you forfeit your rights as a citizen. They should have just shot those 2 traitors and saved us the cost of feeding them.
He "invented the internet" (aka funded ARPA)which is allowing YOU to write your opposition to his policies and his political career.
Too funny, the internet was around long before Gore was doing shxt. It just hadn't reached the masses yet. I think he, when making his ridiculous statement, was meaning to claim he invented the term "information superhighway" or someother such nonsense.
You might consider this, even if he had, out of his own pocket, funded development of the internet, (which of course he didn't) he still wouldn't have been the inventor.
He is just a worthless nothing.
dago
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Originally posted by Lazerus
I asked you in another thread to show me an American citizen, arrested on American soil, that is being held in Cuba. I have yet to see an example. I would still be interested in reading an article, not an op-ed piece, citing such examples.
Why don't you ask for a link for "an American Citizen with blonde hair red eyes arrested on American soil on the 5th tuesday of May"....
It's irrelavent where they were arrested or even if they are unequivically guilty.... if the individual is being detained on US soil by US Authorities, they are entitled to due process under the constitution - citizen or non-citizen - this has precedence in US law and even the US Supreme court has rule that the constitution applies to non-citizens.
There are two American citizens being detained by the US Government... They are being denied their constitutional rights to due process.
Their names are:
Yaser Esam Hamdi was born in Lousiana - arrested in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban.
Jose Padilla was born in New York - and WAS arrested on US soil.
http://www.eurolegal.org/useur/unlawfulcomb.htm
The government is defying court orders regarding detainees
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A50845-2002Aug6¬Found=true
Even the guilty are allowed due process and the right to a fair trial under the constitution.
Choose which link you wish to believe... I don't care... it's common knowledge there are US citizens being detained.
http://www.cato.org/dailys/08-21-03.html
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/11/dirty.bomb.suspect/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2037444.stm
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,261119,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/pow/article/0,8599,262269,00.html
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-levy062402.asp
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/11/dirty.bomb.suspect/
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun2002/padi-j15.shtml
http://ctstudies.com/2002/NEWS_May_26_02_to_June_1_02.htm
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
Their names are:
Yaser Esam Hamdi was born in Lousiana - arrested in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban.
LOL they should have shot the Bastardo .
insteed he is getting trhee hots and a cot.
alot better than those his tally wacker buddies gave those on 9/11
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Originally posted by Dago
When you join a foreign enemy and take up arms against the USA, you forfeit your rights as a citizen. They should have just shot those 2 traitors and saved us the cost of feeding them.
Perhaps.... I don't think that would be politically correct when done on American soil.
Is this the kind of America you are talking about where traitors are shot on sight?:
It's the middle of the night, suddenly automatic machine gun fire breaks the silence... you peek out your window and see US Army special forces swarming around your next door neighbor's house . Humvees APCs are every where... Cobra gunships are hovering over head.... next moment covered bodies are carried out of the house and into a waiting humvee, it drives off... the rest of the soldiers pile into the remaining humvees and they to are gone in a moment... you realize the entire neighborhood is awake, lights are on, curious faces are peeping out from behind curtains... front doors are cracked open... people slowly start to venture out... the local police tell everyone to go back in side and turn off their lights or they'll be arrested for aiding war criminals.
Too funny, the internet was around long before Gore was doing shxt.
Not true. Gore was the senator who argued for the ARPANET program and created the legislation which gave it funding.
You might want to research your opinions before you pull them out of your icehole.
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
Too funny, the internet was around long before Gore was doing shxt.
Not true. Gore was the senator who argued for the ARPANET program and created the legislation which gave it funding.
You might want to research your opinions before you pull them out of your icehole.
And none would be possible with out John Atanasoff
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
He "invented the internet" (aka funded ARPA)which is allowing YOU to write your opposition to his policies and his political career.
Gore did not fund anything. You and I did that.
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Originally posted by Creamo
Wow, maybe he should have won.
He did.
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You might want to research your opinions before you pull them out of your icehole.
Thank you, once you have to result to introducing insults, you are admitting you have lost the arguement.
I accept your surrender and submission that Gore is a loser, a nothing, and has accomplished nothing.
I hear Barbra Striesand invented the airplane, after all, she rode on one once.
BTW, GITMO IS NOT AMERICAN SOIL. It is just leased land, and not American property.
AND, the courts have already ruled the prisoners captured and held in Cuba are not entitled to the rights afforded us by the Constitution. They are Prisoner of War, and are being treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Too dam bad Nexus that you didnt lose a few family members in the 9/11 attack on our country, maybe then you would stop pissing your liberal tears all over this forum.
AS far as I am concerned, and I am pretty damned sure this is the fact, once an American citizen takes up arms against our country, they forfeit all rights. Those two "Americans" you speak of should be tortured to death, slowly. Here's a clue to the treatment we receive at their hands, think "Daniel Pearl"
Remember the two soldiers who were captured in Iraq and later found with hands tied behind their backs, executed???
If you want to step up, join the military, or hire a lawyer for your two little lost children in Gitmo. Of course, they would have been more than happy to shoot you, since you are just an American scumbag in thier eyes. In my eyes too or course, though I respect your right to your opinions, I also know through your posts what kinds of useless **** you are. (you get nasty, I will respond)
Those people hate, they envy, and they use violence at the behest of a madman to try and feel better about themselves.
I am comfortable with the idea that we should respond in kind.
Here is my idea:
Chain up all the Gitmo prisoners together, hook the chain to a Navy ship, and tow them out to sea for a bath. Put the two "Americans" closest to the prop.
Want to talk rights, tell me about the rights of the nearly 3000 killed on 9/11.
dago
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There are reports that moveon.org can be directly linked to communist orgs (read funding here).....
Note: Reports that the communist orgs are now openly supporting the Dems( again read funding here).....
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Originally posted by wrag
There are reports that moveon.org can be directly linked to communist orgs (read funding here).....
Note: Reports that the communist orgs are now openly supporting the Dems( again read funding here).....
Hey everyone... Its tailgunner Joe.... jr.
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Hey everyone... Its tailgunner Joe.... jr.
Gee MT, you usually have at least a small amount of intelligence showing in your posts. That one didn't.
Is it possible Communists could have an unfettered effect on our political system by simple pulling out the "tailgunner Joe" card?
If you question something and speculate on foreign interests or involvement, you are obviously a conspiracy suspecting nut?
You seem to miss that Tailgunner Joe actually did alot of good things, and he brought into focus Communist activities. I guess you haven't heard or read about the declassified Venona decryptions?
Remember, there is a saying:
You aren't really paranoid if everone IS out to get you!
dago
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I'm familiar with Venona. Shocking that there were communist spies in the USA. Paleez.
So the HUAC did "a lot of good things".
Oh yea!
Like ruining the lives of people who did NOTHING ILLEGAL. Show me in the constitution where it says I can't belong to the communist party, or the Nazi party, or the freaking Republican party. .... but lets not forget these blacklisted innocents:
Zero Mostel
Lloyd Gough
Karen Morley
Ring Lardner, Jr.
Dalton Trumbo
Alvah Bessie
Sidney Buchman
Morris Carnovsky
Jeff Corey
Howard Da Silva
Lillian Hellman
Dashiell Hammett
and Orson Bean, Herschel Bernardi, Walter Bernstein, John Berry, Alvah Bessie, Herbert J. Biberman, Charles Bickford, Marc Blitzstein, Joe Edward Bromberg, Phoebe Brand, Bertolt Brecht, Peter Brocco, Phil Brown, Sidney Buchman, Hugo Butler, Jean Butler, Morris Carnovsky, Lee Cobb, Lester Cole, Richard Collins, Jeff Corey, John Cromwell, Howard Da Silva, Edward Dmytryk, Paul Draper, John Henry Faulk (radio personality), Jerry Fielding, Betty Garett, Bernard Gordon, Lloyd Gough, John Garfield, Lee Grant, John Howard Lawson, Robert Lees, Philip Loeb, Josep h Losey, Marsha Hunt, Sam Jaffe, Paul Jarrico, Gordon Kahn, Victor Kilian, Howard Koch, Tony Kraber, Ring Lardner Jr., Louise Lewis, Albert Maltz, Arnold Manoff, Burgess Meredith, Lewis Milestone, Pamela Miller, Karen Morley, Zero Mostel, Jean Muir, Frank O'Connor, Clifford Odets, Samuel Ornitz, Alfred Palca, Larry Parks, Irving Pichel, Abraham Polonsky, Robert Presnell Jr., Ayn Rand, John Randolph, Martin Ritt, Anne Revere, Bob Roberts, Edward G. Robinson, Robert Rossen, Waldo Salt, Adrian Scott, Joshua Shelley, Gale Sondergaard, Frank Tarloff, Dorothy Tree, Dalton Trumbo, Michael Wilson, Richard Wright and Nedrick Young. So much talent was put on hold for a decade or more.
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Oh please, we can all be good little cut and paste experts, but ignoring the whole picture does nobody any good.
I am not defending Joe and his tactics, but I am not ignoring the realities either. I guess you are.
You really haven't addressed the central issue of this thread, nor have you offered anything to repute Wrag, you only threw out one cheap shot. Now, you play the google/cut paste game without any new thought offered.
Do better or stay home.
dago
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The ONLY thing Gore should have invented was the gracefull withdrawl from politics.Hes a tool and an idiot to boot.He was the butt end of every joke ever made and should have taken the loss gracefully.It is not nessecary to win the popular vote and win the election.Electorial college decides who wins.
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Originally posted by DrDea
not relevant to my respose.
small world... i used to live in waynesboro, just up the road from you. ex's family lives there...
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Your very first link has the heading 'eurolaw'. It is irrelevant.
Originally posted by DmdNexus
It's irrelavent where they were arrested
I don't think that would be politically correct when done on American soil.
So is it irrelevant or not? Research the answer before you spout off something.
Jose Padilla is being held on American soil, about 5 miles from my house actually, not in Cuba.
Why don't you ask for a link for "an American Citizen with blonde hair red eyes arrested on American soil on the 5th tuesday of May"....
Well, that's not what you stated to be a fact. Given the trouble you are having proving your first point, I don't think adding anything to the equation would be in your interest.
Still waiting for an example of an American citizen, arrested on American soil, being held in Cuba.
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Really shane?I will burn the town to the ground and spew La7 parts on the ashes Damn but you fly a mean La.You fly a mean everything and I hate you for that:rofl
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And Tipper Gore is a poster child for civil liberties :rolleyes:
Oh my gawd! Those musicians were cussing! Quick, stifle their freedom of speech!
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BTW Jessica Lynch can kiss my buttski.Hero my eye.
BTW yourself DrDea, Jessica Lynch is not calling herself a hero, and in fact from what I have seen and heard, she is doing pretty much just the opposite. She seems an honest, level headed person who went through her own slice of hell, and has emerged a decent person. She denies engaging the enemy in combat, and claims the heros are the one who rescued her. She recognizes their actions and the risks they took, coming in not knowing if they could expect resistance, but willing to risk their lives to save her.
dago
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Yea.....I think I will change that one.Since the interview Iv rethunk that one.But thanks for your input.
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You seem to miss that Tailgunner Joe actually did alot of good things
I am not defending Joe and his tactics
Maybe you should read before you post. Your "original ideas" seem to come out of both side of your mouth.
I mentioned that Joe's committee ruined innocent lives. I also pasted a long list of those people affected to strengthen the point. Try to see the trees for the forest.... gump.
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Originally posted by Dago
BTW, GITMO IS NOT AMERICAN SOIL. It is just leased land, and not American property.
AND, the courts have already ruled the prisoners captured and held in Cuba are not entitled to the rights afforded us by the Constitution.
They are Prisoner of War, and are being treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention.
man are you ignorant...or just plan retarded...
BushWhacker is refusing to call the "detainees" at GITMO POWs otherwise they would be treated under the Geneva convention.
1. Mr. BushWhacker has refused the inspectors for the Geneva convention access to the "Detainees"... the UN is prepare a resolution to declare the US in violation of international law.
2. According to the GITMO lease, the GITMO is considered US Sovereign territory... just like US Embassies around the world. The issue before the Supreme court will be do the federal courts have jurisprudence at GITMO. It's a no brainer decision. Once that decision is made by next June... those "detainees" will have lawyers.
Originally posted by Dago
AS far as I am concerned, and I am pretty damned sure this is the fact, once an American citizen takes up arms against our country, they forfeit all rights.
I pity the village you are depriving of an idiot.
If your assertion were true, which it is not.. then Patty Hurst, McVeigh, as well as the Michiagan Millitia would have not received trials.
Fortunately... this country still has a constitution, laws, and reasonable people who understand the necessity of due process.
Originally posted by Dago
Those people hate, they envy, and they use violence at the behest of a madman to try and feel better about themselves.
Sounds just like you and America today... and the madman would be GWB
Originally posted by Dago
I am comfortable with the idea that we should respond in kind.
Here is my idea:
Chain up all the Gitmo prisoners together, hook the chain to a Navy ship, and tow them out to sea for a bath. Put the two "Americans" closest to the prop.
Spoken like a true war criminal.... I thought Americans were better than that.
As for rights... 3000 dead - yep... make sure whom ever you punish for that crime.. deserves it.
Otherwise you are no better than they are. (I doubt you have the mental copacity to understand this.. given your spew of hate)
How many blacks were lynched in the south because whites thought they raped a white woman?
Were they guilty? Who knows... the mob never let them have a fair trial.
If you want justice... then follow the law and due process... and justice will be served to the guilty... not to the accused.... and not to the innocent.
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Originally posted by Lazerus
Jose Padilla is being held on American soil, about 5 miles from my house actually, not in Cuba.
Were you born a neocon gimp or did you decide to become one?
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Are you going to resort to insults when you can't back up statements that you made?
The original question still stands.
You want to keep trying, or admit that you were just promoting propoganda, lying, or just don't know what you're talking about?
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Jose Padilla is being held on American soil, about 5 miles from my house actually, not in Cuba.
Just wanted to clear this up. He was being held at the Marine Brig in Charleston. Maybe not 5 miles, 10 would be closer.
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Originally posted by Dago
BTW yourself DrDea, Jessica Lynch is not calling herself a hero, and in fact from what I have seen and heard, she is doing pretty much just the opposite. She seems an honest, level headed person who went through her own slice of hell, and has emerged a decent person. She denies engaging the enemy in combat, and claims the heros are the one who rescued her. She recognizes their actions and the risks they took, coming in not knowing if they could expect resistance, but willing to risk their lives to save her.
dago
Not to deminish the courage and honor of her extraction team but...
More will come of this PR fiasco....it seems that one of the Dem canidates has gotten hold of previously unseen < by the public > unedited raw footage of the 'rescue'....that's the skuttlebutt anyhow...will be very interesting to see if it gets released.
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I pity the village you are depriving of an idiot.
Signature material :rofl
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Going to let this one die too Nexus?
Just admit that you were wrong, it's easier.
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
Were you born a neocon gimp or did you decide to become one?
I dont understand why he is still allowed on the BB after all his personal attacks.
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I guess it's past his bedtime.
I'll re-punt tomorrow.
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re-punt
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Hmmm....
Gitmo is leased land that must be returned when the lease is up was the report I heard. While it is under lease it is like Hong Kong was for the Brits.
As to the detainees hmm ... you might wanna read the patriot act.
According to the Patriot act the constitution does NOT extend to anyone labeled a terrorist. I do hope we don't get anyone like Adolf in charge while the patriot act is still in effect. In fact D.A.'s are now using portions of the act against Americans today. This has been reported on the local news.
Patriot act II is even worse.
As to tail gunner Joe, latest word is he was correct in most of his accusations. The individuals reported as spy's were spy's. The KGB types in the old Sov. Un. admitted it when the Sov. Un. dissolved .
As to communism/socialism it is alive and still going strong and is now openly supporting the Dem's.
This information is all available to you on the net. Check it out! Read the information. It's there.
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The only reason McCarthy might have gotten something right is the same reason you might hit the side of a barn with a sawed off shotgun blindfolded.
Neither reason has anything to do with being a straight shooter.
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MT wrote:
So the HUAC did "a lot of good things".
McCarthey has been blamed and villified for a lot of things that happened while he was in office, most of which are false.
Falsehood 1: "McCarthey's HUAC..." HUAC stands for House Un-American Activites Committee." Senator McCarthey had no juristiction over this or any other House of Represenatives committee. He didn't blacklist anyone. Others did, often envoking McCarthey's name, but without his blessing or support. That some other unscrupuous people used the widespread (no, it wasn't just McCarthey who was concerned) fear of traitors in our midst to do harm to others for revenge or profit is not McCarthey's fault. Most of the things he tried to warn people about were later proven to be true. Do a little more research. I'm afraid you've been misled by the masterful charactor assasination job perpatrated against this man.
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What was that book McCarthy help up on the Senate floor claiming to have names in it?? Known members of the communist party??
k
AoM
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"The only reason McCarthy might have gotten something right is the same reason you might hit the side of a barn with a sawed off shotgun blindfolded.
Neither reason has anything to do with being a straight shooter."
Hmmm...
Interesting...
OK don't go look for yourself.
The information is available.
Continue to Ignore it.
I see no reason to bother with attempting to communicate anything with or to you.
Your mind is made up and no amount of information will change it even if that information can be prov-en to be true.
You SEEM to prefer that classic liberal democrat/socialist tactic of insults/revert to emotionalism and aggression to any real discussion and reason when the facts don't seem to support your argument.
I never said I supported McCarthy or his actions. In fact I never brought up McCarthy.
Yes I do NOT agree with communism or socialism as I have seen what it is and how it works.
The world has also seen it ... The NAZI's were socialist. Pol Pot was ... Joseph Stalin was ... Mao was ...
Sadly many Dem's have begun to spout similar words to those put forth by the above. (This statement is provable by simply using the Dem's own words that are on record!)
I do however request that you prove or produce truth to support your statements.......
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LOL...
YOU claim McCarthy has been vindicated, then YOU challenge me to look it up because YOU don't want to post the "facts" then YOU say I'm just slinging mud and won't listen to reason.
Too funny dude.
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A bit of further information on the career of McCarthy...
1946 - Elected to the U.S. Senate by an overwhelming majority. He was anti-tax and against price, rent and credit controls. His first major act was, even as a new Senator, to lead the fight against continuation of wartime sugar controls.
1950, February 9 - McCarthy made an electrifying speech at Wheeling, West VA, that he had a list of Communists in the State Department. By July he was a major political force. John F. Kennedy told Harvard students that "he knew Joe pretty well, and he may have something." In February 1952, John Kennedy called McCarthy a "great American patriot." In 1953 Bobby Kennedy joined McCarthy's staff and McCarthy was godfather to Bobby's first child. Bobby was always loyal to Joe.
1951, June 14 - McCarthy gave a brilliant speech dissecting the career of General George Catlett Marshall ("A living lie") and his mistakes in World War II. Congressional Record, 82nd Congress pp 6556-6603. It was published as Retreat From Victory, NY:Devin-Adair, 1951. Here is a link to his book online - America's Retreat From Victory, The Story of George C. Marshall Here is a link to a brief summary of McCarthy's speech - McCarthy's June 14, 1951 speech on Marshall
By 1953 - McCarthy was credited with defeating a dozen Democrat senators including Senate majority leader Ernst McFarland, majority whip Francis Myers of PA, powerful 4-term Senator Millard Tydings of MD, Scott Lucas of IL, and Elbert Thomas of UT. McCarthy almost single-handedly destroyed the Democrat party and they vowed revenge. A group of left-wing assassins created a group called the Clearing House to smear McCarthy. They got much of their information from columnist Jack Anderson.
1953 - Joe McCarthy became Chairman of the Committee on Government Operations. His reputation rests almost solely on the events of 1953. In the spring, he investigated waste and mismanagement at Voice of America. In the summer, he investigated the State Department overseas information libraries and 30,000 pro-Communist books were withdrawn from them. In the fall, he investigated the Army and the Defense Department focusing on the spy rings at Ft. Monmouth, NJ. That was where the Rosenbergs had infiltrated US atomic secrecy. A few years later, a Democrat Congress decided Ft. Monmouth was so compromised by Soviet penetration that it had to be shut down.
1954 - The 2 month long Army-McCarthy Hearings were watched by 20 million people on television. McCarthy investigated an Army dentist named Irving Peress who took the 5th amendment 20 times in connection with his affiliation with the Communist Party. In its report on the Peress case, the McClellan Committee said that "some 48 errors of more than minor importance were committed by the Army in connection with the commissioning, transfer, promotion, and honorable discharge of Irving Peress." As a result, the Army made some sweeping changes in its security program, including a policy statement that said "the taking of the Fifth Amendment by an individual queried about his Communist affiliations is sufficient to warrant the issuance of a general discharge rather than an honorable discharge."The Army countercharged on March 11 that Roy Cohn, a McCarthy committee staff member had tried to get extra passes for a former staffer David Schine. The Hearings concluded that McCarthy himself had nothing to do with it, but the committee also concluded that Army Secretary Robert Stevens and Army Counsel John Adams "made efforts to terminate or influence the investigation and hearings at Fort Monmouth," and that Adams "made vigorous and diligent efforts" to block subpoenas for members of the Army Loyalty and Screening Board "by means of personal appeal to certain members of the [McCarthy] committee."
The State Department's Owen Lattimore was the man that McCarthy made the most allegations against. McCarthy went so far as to say that he would stake his entire reputation on the question of whether Lattimore was a Communist agent. Now, of course, we have absolute proof that McCarthy was right.
During McCarthy's entire career "1947 to 1958 no American citizen was interrogated without benefit of legal counsel, none was arrested or detained without due judicial process, and no one went to jail without trial." (A. Herman, p 3) The Communist Party was not outlawed and being a member was not a crime.
July 30, 1954, Senator Ralph Flanders introduced a resolution accusing McCarthy of conduct "unbecoming a member of the United States Senate." Flanders two months earlier had told the Senate that McCarthy's "anti-Communism so completely parallels that of Adolf Hitler as to strike fear into the hearts of any defenseless minority."
When a special session of the Senate convened on November 8, 1954, these were two charges to be debated and voted on: 1) That Senator McCarthy had "failed to cooperate" in 1952 with the Senate Subcommittee on Privileges and Elections that was looking into certain aspects of his private and political life in connection with a resolution for his expulsion from the Senate; and 2) That in conducting a senatorial inquiry, Senator McCarthy had "intemperately abused" General Ralph Zwicker. These were both bogus charges. No one has to voluntarily come before a Senate Committee, least of all a Senator. The Zwicker count was dropped at the last moment. Before the Senate Armed Services Committee on March 21, 1957, Zwicker's own assessment of his testimony before McCarthy on February 18, 1954, was: "I think there are some circumstances … that would certainly tend to give a person the idea that perhaps I was recalcitrant, perhaps I was holding back, and perhaps I wasn't too cooperative.... I am afraid I was perhaps overcautious and perhaps on the defensive, and that this feeling … may have inclined me to be not as forthright, perhaps, in answering the questions put to me as I might have been otherwise."
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Continued...
Perhaps because the charges were so bogus, perhaps because he wanted publicity, Joe McCarthy avoided several opportunities to dismiss the censure resolution (which was so poorly worded that it didn't even have the word 'censure' in it). He welcomed a vote. It went against him. Although meaningless in itself, it gave the liberal press the excuse to ignore and/or bash McCarthy the rest of his life. In June 1953, McCarthy was a normal Senator with a 35 percent favorable rating and 30 percent unfavorable. In January 1954 he was 50 percent favorable; in March he had 46 favorable, 36 against. Then the liberal media did a hatchet job on him and in August 1954 he had 36 percent favorable and 51 percent unfavorable rating. McCarthy retained about 35 percent favorable ratings throughout the rest of his life.
1957, May 2 - Joseph R. McCarthy died from acute hepatitus.
CONCLUSION
With the opening of the KGB archives and the release of the VENONA intercepts - decoded Soviet KGB and GRU traffic - it has been proved that McCarthy was absolutely right about the extensive Soviet penetration of the U.S. government in all the most sensitive sections and its danger to America. According to the KGB archives the NKVD had 221 agents in the Roosevelt administration in April 1941 and the Soviet military GRU probably had a like number. He was proved right that the Communist Party, U.S.A., was an arm of the Soviet intelligence apparatus and the Soviet Union considered the US as their "main enemy." His liberal critics in academe and the mainstream media, who denied there was Communist subversion and made excuses for it, were proved absolutely wrong! This should have discredited the liberal ideology and those who mouthed it. Because the left had no answer or effective reply to the challenge McCarthy posed, they engaged in personal destruction - they smeared and demonized McCarthy because he was truth.
Joseph McCarthy was the giant of his day. His supporters and associates all went on to the highest success: Roy Cohn became one of the greatest defense lawyers in America; Everett Dirkson went on to have a most distinguished career in the Senate as did Barry Goldwater; Richard Nixon and John F. Kennedy went on to become President.
America Was at War with Total Evil and the Liberals were on the Other Side
Joe McCarthy's great achievement was that he helped popularize a deep public animosity toward Communism and its agents. McCarthy attacked liberalism itself, exposing its fraud by proving liberal's willingness to side with Communist infiltration and treason, to glamorize the brutality of Communist governments. Liberalism sympathizes with and protects Communism's champions and professes to find moral worth in a system of absolute evil. Liberalism and Communism are both infected with the same materialistic secular virus and have such philosophical affinity that usually they can not be distinguished. Their identical world-view creates a "strong affinity between the Communists and New Dealers; between the progressive and totalitarian visions of the maximalist state." (Professor A. Herman)
In the long lens of history, Joseph R. McCarthy will be considered one of the very greatest Americans because he was a great patriot. He was the American St. George. He fought the dragon.
Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Freedom
"There he came, from the heartland of America, a tenacious and quite ordinary politician; and in a sudden and lasting moment of recognition, he saw the central truth of his age: that his country, his faith, his civilization was at war with communism, war pure and simple. 'This war will not end except in either victory or death for this civilization' he said again and again."(Willi Schlamm)..."And so this fallen warrior, though dead, speaketh, calling a nation of free men to be delivered from the complacency of a false security and from regarding those who loudly sound the trumpets of vigilance and alarm as mere disturbers of the peace."
- Senate Chaplain Rev. Frederick Brown Harris at Senator Joe McCarthy's memorial.
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The definitive book on McCarthy is The Life and Times of Joseph McCarthy, Professor Thomas C. Reeves, 1997.
Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America's Most Hated Senator By Arthur Herman, NY:Free Press, 1999
McCarthy's best book is America's Retreat From Victory, The Story of George C. Marshall
Little different perspective on the man than what is generally portrayed in the mainstream media.
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Thank you Sabre. Interesting read.
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So is this...
Transcript of Senate Resolution 301: Censure of Senator Joseph McCarthy (November 9, 1954)
Resolved, That the Senator from Wisconsin, Mr. McCarthy, failed to cooperate with the Subcommittee on Privileges and Elections of the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration in clearing up matters referred to that subcommittee which concerned his conduct as a Senator and affected the honor of the Senate and, instead, repeatedly abused the subcommittee and its members who were trying to carry out assigned duties, thereby obstructing the constitutional processes of the Senate, and that this conduct of the Senator from Wisconsin, Mr. McCarthy, is contrary to senatorial traditions and is hereby condemned.
Sec 2. The Senator from Wisconsin, Mr. McCarthy, in writing to the chairman of the Select Committee to Study Censure Charges (Mr. Watkins) after the Select Committee had issued its report and before the report was presented to the Senate charging three members of the Select Committee with "deliberate deception" and "fraud" for failure to disqualify themselves; in stating to the press on November 4, 1954, that the special Senate session that was to begin November 8, 1954, was a "lynch-party"; in repeatedly describing this special Senate session as a "lynch bee" in a nationwide television and radio show on November 7, 1954; in stating to the public press on November 13, 1954, that the chairman of the Select Committee (Mr. Watkins) was guilty of "the most unusual, most cowardly things I've ever heard of" and stating further: "I expected he would be afraid to answer the questions, but didn't think he'd be stupid enough to make a public statement"; and in characterizing the said committee as the "unwitting handmaiden," "involuntary agent" and "attorneys-in-fact" of the Communist Party and in charging that the said committee in writing its report "imitated Communist methods -- that it distorted, misrepresented, and omitted in its effort to manufacture a plausible rationalization" in support of its recommendations to the Senate, which characterizations and charges were contained in a statement released to the press and inserted in the Congressional Record of November 10, 1954, acted contrary to senatorial ethics and tended to bring the Senate into dishonor and disrepute, to obstruct the constitutional processes of the Senate, and to impair its dignity; and such conduct is hereby condemned.
Transcription courtesy of the U.S. Department of State's Information USA website.
Conclusion.... McCarthy was a lunatic.
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Even with the evidence right before your eyes! LOL
The dates of the articles say ALLOT!!!!!!
AS I SAID why should I bother showing you the information????
You seem to have already made up your mind and further more give the impression that NOTHING will change it! Not even the truth.
In my experience certain people will almost always claim they are open minded liberals and yet refuse to believe evidence when it is put in-front of them. They hang on to their beliefs as if their very existence requires it.
Are you such a person?
OK is everyone ready?
Cause here come the insults :rofl
I don't challenge you to anything. I suggest you look it up for yourself because I think you will not believe anything I direct you to.
Also I think you are capable of looking things up on your own.
I hope all people are capable of examining their own beliefs and reconsidering those beliefs if evidence indicates they could be incorrect or when they hold a belief that may be due to being missinformed.
It is possible that many did not see the Soviet admission to putting out "disinformation".
I was attending college at the time and my sociology professor fairly crowed about a memo that was later proven to be "disinformation".
This same professor was continually proclaiming the virtues of the People Republic of China (the mainland).
It was claimed to be a memo from a government orgainization that was telling all America how terrible the situation was. This same memo was later shown to be totally bogus from a totally nonexistant branch of the government.
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Trying to stay civil here...
I took one small part of Sabre's post.. this one:
Perhaps because the charges were so bogus, perhaps because he wanted publicity, Joe McCarthy avoided several opportunities to dismiss the censure resolution (which was so poorly worded that it didn't even have the word 'censure' in it). He welcomed a vote. It went against him. Although meaningless in itself, it gave the liberal press the excuse to ignore and/or bash McCarthy the rest of his life. In June 1953, McCarthy was a normal Senator with a 35 percent favorable rating and 30 percent unfavorable. In January 1954 he was 50 percent favorable; in March he had 46 favorable, 36 against. Then the liberal media did a hatchet job on him and in August 1954 he had 36 percent favorable and 51 percent unfavorable rating. McCarthy retained about 35 percent favorable ratings throughout the rest of his life.
and compared it to the actual transcript of the censure motion. Now one of us (Sabre and I) posted a one sided view about the Senator, and the other posted an actual document from the Senate Archives.
You can feel free to rant away.
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
He "invented the internet" (aka funded ARPA)which is allowing YOU to write your opposition to his policies and his political career.
He funded ARPA? I didn't know he was so rich. I thought the taxpayers funded it.
Learn something new every day.
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I'd vote for McCarthy before I would vote for Hillary.
McCarthy worked for Americas best interest as he saw it.
Hillary works for Hillarys greedy self- interest.
Gore is not dynamic enough to lead, so shouldn't be considered worth electing.
dago
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Hmmm...
Trying to stay civil? Hmmm..
Note: thus far I have not made any accusations or statements regarding you or your personal beliefs. I have only put forward questions and repeatedly used the word seems and impression. If anyone has doubt's please reread my post.
As to a Senate document means?
I hope that an attempt is not going to be made to claim politicians don't lie or do things to save their political position.
As too the article.... the KGB, etc... admitted a very great deal of their actions after the demise of the Soviet Union!
THEY (meaning the KGB, etc...) even said the individuals McCarthy said were spy's were in FACT SPY'S. Dispute the article if you wish but at least try and find the correct information. Did the former KGB personnel make those statements???
While the article may be one-sided if the KGB personnel did make the statement that the individuals McCarthy claimed were spy's actually were spy's then perhaps McCarthy's actions make a little more sense?
Consider please the possibility that while his actions may have been way outa line his reasons may have been extremely VALID!
Consider that the former communist nation expressed the ACTUAL INTENT OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE! And if necessary the destruction of the American people.
From where I sit that is an attack on my nation, my constitution, my freedom, and my liberty. I further heard and experienced a portion of that attack while in college and put forth a portion of it in my previous post.
Please also consider that the communist party has NEVER, even now, said it has any other intention but the above.
Please further consider that the intention is such that even if every person within the U.S. does NOT want it!, it makes NO difference to these individuals or their party. They will still continue their course.
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So, which people were spies?
Of the ones he accused of being communist spies, how many have been found to be so?
Midnight: nice job on getting the actual transcripts. I'll take those to an arse licking book with only one agenda.
Think I'm gonna write a book about Stalin in which he's all good and stuff and misunderstood coz of the right tilting media ;)
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I'm with Santa, which spys were named first by McCarthy? Hiss? Rosenburg? I don't think so. But here are a few of the "commies" who were attacked by the Senator and his committee. I guess we should thank him for saving us from:
Zero Mostel
(http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAmoselZ.JPG)
Herschel Bernardi
(http://www.what-a-character.com/miniphotos/983798443.jpg)
Lee Grant:
(http://www.networksplus.net/caseyguy/leegrant.jpg)
and especially:
(http://www.lucilleball.net/-page.graphics/lucy.60s.jpg)
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OK I don't think the actors and such mentioned were considered spy's.
I think the list of such is what turned the entire thing into a witch hunt mentality for so many Americans.
Although there are some that think there is a link to the current condition of our society, the work done, and the manner that work was accomplished by those actors, there really is no supporting proof/evidence.
I think perhaps there were some that read and feared the following. It was written by Tsun Tzu and is or was required reading for both the KGB and the Chinese communist.
" The direct tactic of war is necessary only on the battlefield, but only the indirect tactic can lead
to a real and lasting victory.
Subvert anything of value in the enemy's country. Implicate the emissaries of the major powers
in criminal undertakings; undermine their position and destroy their reputation in other ways as well; and
expose them to the public ridicule of their fellow citizens.
Do not shun the aid of even the lowest and the most despicable people. Disrupt the work of
their government with every means you can.
Spread disunity and dispute among the citizens of the enemy's country. Turn the young against
the old. Use every means to destroy their arms, their supplies, and the discipline of the enemy's forces.
Debase old traditions and accepted gods. Be generous with promises and rewards to purchase
intelligence and accomplices. Send out your secret agents in all directions. Do not skimp with money
or with promises, for they yield a high return."
I must confess that from my view point Hollywood (the industry) is much too far left leaning in it's views. There appears to very little balance politically.
Furthermore the people running or in charge of hollywood seem far too willing to force those that disagree with them politicaly out of the system and away from any real work. At least those seem to be the reports coming out of there.
Reports of a left leaning media are not new however.
I confess I find myself getting tired of the Media doing it's best to force it's view points on the rest of America.
Personal Freedom and Personal Liberty, and Equal Justice for ALL!
To me those are just a portion of the reasons for the Constitution as it was originally INTENDED. Jefferson and many others objected to slavery and tried at the time to ban it. Sadly it is reported that something like half the states refused to sign on to the Constitution if they had to give up their slaves! So it seems that in order to create the U.S. and do so in a manner that gave our country enough states to make it strong enough to survive, they accepted the slavery issue with hopes that in time they could ban it. I seem to recall Jerfferson and Washington and several other signers had some comments to that affect in letters they wrote.
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Wrag, read the book "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg, a former CBS employee.
dago