Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JBA on November 10, 2003, 09:40:34 AM
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How about Thanks for not reporting us to INS?
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--wal-mart-arrests1109nov09,0,3126522,print.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire
Illegal immigrants arrested in Wal-Mart raid file suit
November 9, 2003, 10:39 AM EST
FREEHOLD, N.J. -- Nine illegal immigrants who worked as janitors at Wal-Mart until they were arrested during federal raids last month have sued the company, accusing it of discriminating against them.
The Mexican immigrants, who worked as janitors, also accuse Wal-Mart and its cleaning contractors of failing to pay overtime, withhold taxes and make required workers' compensation contributions.
The plaintiffs, who face deportation, were among 250 people arrested in an Oct. 23 raid on 60 Wal-Mart stores in 21 states.
The lawsuit filed Wednesday in Superior Court in Freehold is the first from immigrants arrested in the raid.
According to the lawsuit, Wal-Mart employed cleaning contractors "with full knowledge" that they paid illegal immigrants less than legal workers.
The lawsuit says managers at Wal-Mart stores in Old Bridge and Piscataway knew the nine plaintiffs were illegal immigrants.
"Wal-Mart must have known about these violations," the immigrant's lawyer, Gilberto Garcia, told The New York Times. "If these people are going to work at Wal-Marts, then Wal-Mart and its contractors should abide by the labor laws."
Mona Williams, vice president of Wal-Mart for communications, said the company did not know about the labor violations of which contractors are accused, or that they used illegal immigrants. She said Wal-Mart has long insisted that its contractors obey the law.
"Clearly, hungry lawyers are converging on these illegal immigrants as if they were accident victims," Williams said. "We have seen absolutely no evidence showing that Wal-Mart did anything wrong."
She acknowledged that Wal-Mart has received a letter from federal prosecutors warning that it faces a grand jury investigation into illegal immigrants employed at its stores.
The plaintiffs say they worked at least 56 hours a week and were not paid time and a half for overtime hours, those over 40 a week. They say they were paid between $350 and $500 a week.
They have asked Wal-Mart and its contractors for more than $200,000 in back pay they say they are owed for overtime.
The raid led to arrests in Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Connecticut, Delaware, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, North Carolina, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia and West Virginia.
___P>
On the Net:
Wal-Mart: http://www.walmartstores.com
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We deserve what we're getting...the clear result of a sick judicial who run the courts in our country....this case should not even be heard.
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punt
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not only should this case be heard wal-mart should lose if the alegations are true.
not that I believe people working illeagaly deserve protection. but if employers can get away with hiring illeagals and not paying legal wages and overtime then you and I will have to compete with that and we will lose or be working under the same conditions.
the great thing if they win is that any time an illeagal gets done working here (either caught and deported or makes his money and is ready to go home) he could then sue for back wages plus punitive damages.
this would make it much more costly for companies to risk hiring illeagals. the only way to get their attention is to hit them in the wallet.
most peoples first impulse is to say "screw them they where here illeagaly, they deserve what they get"
but do you or your neigbor deserve to compete with someone who isn't protected under the law?
every time you allow someone to work in this country for sub-standard wages you devalue the american worker.
the only people who benifit from this sort of exploitation is those who aren't employed by someone for their income.
allowing this to go on is also unfair competition for decent law abiding companys who care about their employees.
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someone should castrate the lawyer who suggested to them that they sue.... :mad:
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Give them their back pay and ship them back to Mexico. Personally I think we should hire frieghters to humanly ship them to Cozumel. Then it would take longer for them illegally cross the border again.
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I have to agree with apathy.
But soon they will not have to come here. Our companies are going to their country, so they won't have to travel to work for substandard wages.
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Originally posted by Rude
We deserve what we're getting...the clear result of a sick judicial who run the courts in our country....this case should not even be heard.
The majority of judges are conservative... the majority of the federal judicialry was appointed by Reagan and Bush Sr.
If the Judges are too liberal for you.... you only have the Republicans to blame for it :aok
Rebulicans just changed the Senate rules to prevent the Democrats from filibustering... so now more judges will be appointed by whom? The conservative Rebulicans.
If the court system is too goofy for you who you going to blame?
Republicans have control of both houses, executive, and the judical system.
I guess it must be the Liberal press' fault...
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Originally posted by Sixpence
I have to agree with apathy.
But soon they will not have to come here. Our companies are going to their country, so they won't have to travel to work for substandard wages.
Man aint that the truth:mad:
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If they felt like they weren't being treated properly (i.e. overtime, etc) then why did they wait until they were arrested to sue Wal-Mart and it's contractors?
Seems like they liked things the way there were, i.e. finding a job in the U.S. despite being an illegal immigrant.
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Originally posted by Dune
Give them their back pay and ship them back to Mexico. Personally I think we should hire frieghters to humanly ship them to Cozumel. Then it would take longer for them illegally cross the border again.
I think we should build giant tent cities and throw anyone caught in the country illegally in them for 5 years, then deport them. Then I wonder how many would just come right back.
Seriously this is a huge problem that's not being dealt with. Then we have Mexico's president coming here and complaining that illegal immigrants are not getting enough healthcare and benifits...WTF!
I can literally drive 5 miles to the Home Depot and pick up about 200 illegals a day. They hang out all over the streets waiting for day jobs. God forbid you drive a truck....they will swarm all over you!
Yet nothing is done about them. The illagals in Phoenix were demanding the city build them a "Job Center" were they could meet in th emornings and look for work.
PC officials are out of control .
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Should ask from the native americans whether they think you're illegal immigrants :D ;)
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Originally posted by Fishu
Should ask from the native americans whether they think you're illegal immigrants :D ;)
You mean have them ask The Spanish, French and English right :)
p.s. The US aquired our land legally from England, France, Mexico and Russia.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I think we should build giant tent cities and throw anyone caught in the country illegally in them for 5 years, then deport them. Then I wonder how many would just come right back.
Florida already did this during with the Cuba boat people...
I disagree with having to pay to feed them for 5 years, and allow them to watermelon in our country.
I have this dream... we each illegal immigrant a parachute... show them how to pack it... have them pack their own... tell them to keep it and because the next time they are caught in this country illegally they won't get another free chute...
Then fly them to their country of origin and kick them out of the plane!
Hey they have the rest of their life to pull that D ring....
And the experience may just give them pause before they come back into this country illegally.
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Originally posted by NUKE
You mean have them ask The Spanish, French and English right :)
p.s. The US aquired our land legally from England, France, Mexico and Russia.
That's not true... The US Goveronment made numerous treaties with the nations of the American Indians and then broke them....
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
That's not true... The US Goveronment made numerous treaties with the nations of the American Indians and then broke them....
You want me to list all the land we purchased or otherwise legally aquired?
1. Gained independence from England : All the colonies
2. The Louisiana Purchase :
http://www.louisianapurchase2003.com/home.cfm
The Louisiana Purchase, approved by treaty in April of 1803, is called the most significant real estate transaction in the history of civilization. The over 800,000 square miles of land—bought at a cost of about four cents per acre—would eventually be cut into all or part of fifteen American states: Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, Iowa, North Dakota, Texas, South Dakota, New Mexico, Nebraska, Kansas, Wyoming, Minnesota, Oklahoma, Colorado and Montana.
3. Texas joined union, was it's own nation
4. Western States: Mexico ceded what is now California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, and portions of Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma, and Kansas to the United States at the end of the war in 1848.
5. Alaska, purchased from Russia.
That's how we got our land.....legally.
[edit] Next time someone comes here and says the US took the Indian's land, I might need to post maps or something.
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If they felt like they weren't being treated properly (i.e. overtime, etc) then why did they wait until they were arrested to sue Wal-Mart and it's contractors?
because they couldn't come forward or risk deportation. now that they have been found out they can file there suit free from any retribution.
this sort of thing doesn't jst happen to illeagals. it often happens to young people or others who are ignorant of their rights.
my nephew worked for 6 months at a warehouse downtown. during the time he worked their I started noticing (only seeing him at family events every month or so) that he was losing a lot of weight.
it seems they where working him over 12 hours a day and his boss wasn't letting him take breaks. he worked nightshift and when he got home he was so tired all he could think about was getting sleep, so he often went days without food.
so the boss explained that they had to work through the breaks to stay caught up, or they would all be introuble for falling behind and would all be fired.
then when the first payday came hsi boss explained that he still had to subtract out the time for his 2 lunches(that he never got to take). because if they didn't they would all be in trouble for not taking the breaks(which is a violation of safety codes).
so not only was he working way to many hours without a break, he was getting the time he should have been on break deducted from his pay.
this sort of thing is not unusual. compnays do this sort of thing all the time and most people either don't know their rights or feel (sometimes rightly so) that if they complain they won't get anything for their trouble except fired.
many people who are being abused at work are also reciving a type of emotional/mental abuse, where they are constantly told what a screw-up they are and how they are damn lucky the boss gives them the oportunity to work through their breaks to keep up, or there would be no way he could stop those above him from demanding that he fire them.
with jobs so hard to come-by people will endure this sort of thing while living in fear that theri paycheck will be taken away. just because they don't come forward until they reach a point where they have nothing to lose doesn't mean they don't have rights.
and regardless of the rights of the employees the company has a duty to meet legal standards of pay and working conditions. these standards are based on where the work is performed not on where the person performing the work comes from.
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I wish I were king. I wouldn't entertain lawsuits. I'd just shoot them.
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Originally posted by NUKE
You want me to list all the land we purchased or otherwise legally aquired?
1. Gained independence from England : All the colonies
2. The Louisiana Purchase :
http://www.louisianapurchase2003.com/home.cfm
3. Texas joined union, was it's own nation
4. Western States: Mexico ceded what is now California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, and portions of Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma, and Kansas to the United States at the end of the war in 1848.
5. Alaska, purchased from Russia.
That's how we got our land.....legally.
[edit] Next time someone comes here and says the US took the Indian's land, I might need to post maps or something.
Ah White man's law.... White man speak with tongue of snake.
Britain and France never legally owned the land.
Why do you think there were wars between US soldiers and Indians?
Indians never sold their land to the British or the French.
And I guess by the same reasoning... a black man sold on the auction block in Biloxi was legal, because the Captain of the slave ship bought him from a slave owner off the coast of Africa.
yah that makes it all legal... beside the Supreme Court up held the Dread Scott verdict.... yah that makes it all legal.
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
Ah White man's law.... White man speak with tongue of snake.
Britain and France never legally owned the land.
Why do you think there were wars between US soldiers and Indians?
Indians never sold their land to the British or the French.
And I guess by the same reasoning... a black man sold on the auction block in Biloxi was legal, because the Captain of the slave ship bought him from a slave owner off the coast of Africa.
yah that makes it all legal... beside the Supreme Court up held the Dread Scott verdict.... yah that makes it all legal.
I guess if the illegal aliens don't like their treatment, and we are following this logic, then they should invade the US and take it over. In return, we may consider them to be invaders, and any citizen may shoot them.
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Fishu
Why would we do that? We kicked their rears fare and square! That was back in the good old days when you conquered someone you got to abuse them and stuff!
:aok
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
Ah White man's law.... White man speak with tongue of snake.
Britain and France never legally owned the land.
Why do you think there were wars between US soldiers and Indians?
Indians never sold their land to the British or the French.
.
How do you know that land was ever legally the Indians? You don't.
The French and British fought 4 wars over North America, each side with Indian Allies. At the end of the last war, England was awarded almost all of Canada and land east of the Mississippi.
France got Florida and the Louisiana purchase area.
Why don't to get yourself a clue?
Even if the land was taken from the Indians ( and it wasn't), it wasn't the US that had anything to do with it.
Now what about Canada? were there any Indians there? Who took their land? What about Alaska? Mexico?
I find it funny when someone says the US took the Indians land.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I find it funny when someone says the US took the Indians land.
Tell me where you live... I'm going to take your land, sleep with your women, kick your poodle, open up a casino and cheat your neighbors! :lol
Now that would be funny...
BTW, did your wife ever shave that mustache of hers?
I like hairy women, but man, she can make rope with all that hair!
:aok
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To the Native Americans land ownership was incomprehensible. The land gave them food, and shelter, but owning it was something they didnt think anyone could do.
Back to the main subject: IMO if you break the law you forfeit your rights. ie illegal immigrants working, people who are classified as crimnals etc.
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
Tell me where you live... I'm going to take your land, sleep with your women, kick your poodle, open up a casino and cheat your neighbors!
That wouldn't be legal
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im wonder how many of you would like to work for 5$ a hour cleaning all dirst, carring bricks, cleaning fishes in market?
Without any healt protection, insurance?
hands up guys;-)
You all should respect thos people, cuz they WORK HARD for his money. Thay have families to feed. If they hanging around Home Depot and waiting for job, thy are good guys who like to work.
Not make robery or steal something.
are they not?
COmpanies who hire them not pay righty wages , right insurance and many other . BUT if they have cheap laubour they earn more money, thats mean PAY bigger TAXES. And you all have cheaper stuff in shoops. Correct?
All this without spending money from goverment.
Goverment care only of you do something against law (crime against properti or people). Nt car if they live quiet and buying american food and american stuff (taxes are counted in shoop, not later). So hey support american economy. Buying houses and not be owner of them, buying cars ....... Correct?
Do U.S need illegal imigrants? yes, withouth them noone will build this country for so cheap money.
You all are so happey then you parrents, granparents, grand gran......... Come here earlier.
How do you think why?, Cuz they like to be "Americans" , or to have good life? Readf about social in XVIII, XIX and early XX century pls. And find root of imigrants history.
90% of goods i see in shoops ar MADE IN CHINA ;-) and people (americans citizens) buyong a lot of them beucose they are cheap
Are you not care anymore about China broke many human rights?
Are you care about american economy? Sure , only when you watch TV ;-)
about lands:
WHat was story with Panama channel? Cuba? Philipnes? and som other? Dont be "angel" when you are not.
Somone mention about tent. Thats for him - You plowing nazist
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Originally posted by ramzey
Do U.S need illegal imigrants? yes, withouth them noone will build this country for so cheap money.
You all are so happey then you parrents, granparents, grand gran......... Come here earlier.
How do you think why?, Cuz they like to be "Americans" , or to have good life? Readf about social in XVIII, XIX and early XX century pls. And find root of imigrants history.
about lands:
WHat was story with Panama channel? Cuba? Philipnes? and som other? Dont be "angel" when you are not.
Somone mention about tent. Thats for him - You plowing nazist
The problem isn't imigrants, it's illegal imigrants. When people imigrated to the US, they used to be checked for deseases, they had have a skill and they had to come here LEGALLY
Do you get the concept of LEGAL?
And I mentioned the tent city for detaining anyone caught in the US ILLEGALLY. We have a tent city jail in Phoenix for minor criminals now.....what's the problem with building a few more for all the Illegal imigrants who are here breaking our laws?
I dont care that they are good people, I care that they come here legally.
p.s. Ramzy you are over the line calling me what you did.
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Back to the main subject: IMO if you break the law you forfeit your rights. ie illegal immigrants working, people who are classified as crimnals etc.
so walmart, and it's subcontractors forfit rights too?
this is a legal matter between 2 sides who are both criminals. why should the law protect walmart from it's legal obligations, those who worked illeagaly comitted one crime, where the employer comitted several(one for each employee).
at the very least they should be fined for the amount plus punitive damages.
even if the illeagals can't collect I think the offenders should have to pay.
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ramzey
You lost any credibility you may have had with this
From Ramzey
Somone mention about tent. Thats for him - You plowing nazist
I really hope you get banned.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I dont care that they are good people, I care that they come here legally.
Nuke,
Even though you were weened on a chrome nipple sprewing Neo-Con milk as a baby...
I agree with your tent city idea...
I would just add... spray them down with a fire hose before sending them back... wash that stink off of them compliments of the USA!
hey come to Amerika on a dingy, in a truck, in a crate... get a free bath.
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Oh my what I started...
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
so walmart, and it's subcontractors forfit rights too?
this is a legal matter between 2 sides who are both criminals. why should the law protect walmart from it's legal obligations, those who worked illeagaly comitted one crime, where the employer comitted several(one for each employee).
at the very least they should be fined for the amount plus punitive damages.
even if the illeagals can't collect I think the offenders should have to pay.
I agree. Walmart should be nailed. I don't think the illegals should benefit from it, though. They were working illegally. The money the earned was earned illegally. If you get screwed in a drug deal, you can't sue for the cash after you got caught.
Walmart should be fined heavily, though.
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You all should respect thos people, cuz they WORK HARD for his money. Thay have families to feed. If they hanging around Home Depot and waiting for job, thy are good guys who like to work.
Thats right.
My Dad had a Sod Farm when I was growing up and the only people who would do that kind of HARD work was guys from Mexico.
And yes they where illegals.
But there were not any white boys that would or could do that kind of work.
I have the highest respect for the mexican worker!!
But we do need to clamp down on the borders becuase of 9/11
And unfortunatly the mexican will get the short end of the stick.
And as far as bringing law suites LOL Give me a break.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by NUKE
That wouldn't be legal
Fortunately, Nexus is going to sell me your women, injured poodle, and the land under his casino, so it's all good.
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Originally posted by SOB
Fortunately, Nexus is going to sell me your women, injured poodle, and the land under his casino, so it's all good.
If he could somehow get you the legal documents, I'd say go for it. :)
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Originally posted by NUKE
If he could somehow get you the legal documents, I'd say go for it. :)
I'll start my own nation and print the documents, put a few signatures on it - voila! legal document!...
After all that's what America did. The only reason why Jefferrson paid the French for the Louisian territory... was so that they wouldn't fight ...
Here's some history for you... it was the Pope which divided Americas and made it "legal" for Europeans to colonize America, kill the inhabitants... take their gold... and rape their sheep. Yeah Jesus!
It was the dissolute Alexander VI whose Bull of 1493 gave Spain and Portugal the right for “barbarous nations (to) be invaded and brought to the faith”. He took it upon himself to divide the New World between Spain and Portugal.
Pope Alexander reportedly used the first gold brought from the Americas to decorate the ceiling of Santa Maria Maggiore. (Ref 2)
“Bound by papal edicts, bishops & missionaries found themselves to be an integral part of a political project of conquest and exploitation.”
All I need to know, now is.... does your poodle have a pedigree?
I need to know if he has accepted Jesus Christ as it's personal lord and savor... otherwise I will have to tortue it to convert it to christianity.... just like the Jessuits did to the native Americans...
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Originally posted by DmdNexus
The majority of judges are conservative... the majority of the federal judicialry was appointed by Reagan and Bush Sr.
If the Judges are too liberal for you.... you only have the Republicans to blame for it :aok
Rebulicans just changed the Senate rules to prevent the Democrats from filibustering... so now more judges will be appointed by whom? The conservative Rebulicans.
If the court system is too goofy for you who you going to blame?
Republicans have control of both houses, executive, and the judical system.
I guess it must be the Liberal press' fault...
Once again your facts are skewed.....all that you just wrote has nothing to do with the topic...this suit should not be allowed.
As to being hired and paid less than minimum....that also is false. Every large landscaping company in this country that you might see on a commercial sight hires 80% of their workforce from Mexico on 8 month work visa's....they are paid 8-12 dollars/hr.
Hardly taken advantage of.Rebulicans just changed the Senate rules to prevent the Democrats from filibustering... so now more judges will be appointed by whom? The conservative Rebulicans.
I don't think that is accurate either, however, if it is....good.
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"If they are in the country illegally we should be able to treat them as badly as we want and there shouldn't be anything they can do about it." Yeppers. That's a great argument.... if you're a nazi.
MiniD
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I agree. Walmart should be nailed. I don't think the illegals should benefit from it, though. They were working illegally. The money the earned was earned illegally. If you get screwed in a drug deal, you can't sue for the cash after you got caught.
I agree, Walmart SHOULD get nailed hard on this one. They are supporting people who came here ILLEGALLY.
Just for the record I am out of work because of Mexicans who are here ILLEGALLY. I am a siding carpenter. I Install siding on new homes. Most Framing contractors are using Mexican siding crews, paying them less than they pay Americans. When it comes time to do their punch lists (A punch list is things the jobsite Superintendent says needs to be fixed or changed), the Mexicans who cant read English and most barely speak any, cant understand what needs to be done so the Framing Contractor pays someone who does understand to do it for them. Because the Mexican crews get paid alot less the Contractor still comes out ahead after paying a punch carpenter to do their work for them.
I have no problems with immgrants coming here legally. Heck my grandparents on both sides came to America from Czechoslovakia. I do have problems with immigrants who are here ILLEGALLY. They take jobs away from LEGAL immigrants and American Citizens.
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Mrblack your dad still have that sod farm? I need a job bad :)
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Originally posted by NUKE
The problem isn't imigrants, it's illegal imigrants. When people imigrated to the US, they used to be checked for deseases, they had have a skill and they had to come here LEGALLY
Do you get the concept of LEGAL?
And I mentioned the tent city for detaining anyone caught in the US ILLEGALLY. We have a tent city jail in Phoenix for minor criminals now.....what's the problem with building a few more for all the Illegal imigrants who are here breaking our laws?
I dont care that they are good people, I care that they come here legally.
p.s. Ramzy you are over the line calling me what you did.
ok i go to far with this nazi, IM SORRY
buy your idea is just stiupid
put people in to jail only beucoze they work illegal? and are in U.S illegal?
How about tents for people who overspeed or drive drunk? same level of crime? no thay are worse.
Was one men in europe and som smart in africa who try put people to tents.
Do you know how many work visas give U.S gov this year?
Do you know how hard is get work visa? do you know how hard is get ANY visa to U.S? and how humiliating is that expirience?
come to Poland i will show you if you like to see it.
Are you denied this people have raight to improve his life?
Are you blame them for broke law only if they do it for his kids?
If they work, they know risk. If they work , they work for U.S paying taxes every day. Thay not brig money back to mexico, or wherever.
Better is not have money form taxes payed by them? think pls
Without "grey zone" will be no "american style of life"
Som years ago somone "smart" try to provide prohibition, how its end?
Walmart hire illegal and against law, he will pay for this. Cuz he know what he do. Its only money and som wasted time in TV and court. Wichone cost your money form taxes, som lawyers and TV stations will earn som money.
Its america, here everything circling around money ;-)
So, noone of they steal your job. Thay are outlaw, yes
Should you be outlaw when you overspeed , yes
You pay ticket, thay loose dreems
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Originally posted by Rude
I don't think that is accurate either, however, if it is....good.
Well that goes to prove you don't think just like all your other neo-cons and their posts.. they don't have a clue what's going on except for what their "approved" media out let chooses to tell them..
Here's the link... and guess what it's from a CONSERVATIVE NEO-NAZI news source too!
http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,102704,00.html
http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/031028c.asp
Also... the number of judges which were appointed by Republicans out number the number of judges sitting and appointed by Democrats.
The Conservatives have the Judiciary locked up...
Would you like numbers as proof?
How much of your foot would you like to eat on this one? I'll even give you a conservative source.
Furthermore...
The Conservative Judges DON'T agree with Ashcroft and his mandatory minimums
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Originally posted by Elfie
I agree, Walmart SHOULD get nailed hard on this one. They are supporting people who came here ILLEGALLY.
Just for the record I am out of work because of Mexicans who are here ILLEGALLY. I am a siding carpenter. I Install siding on new homes. Most Framing contractors are using Mexican siding crews, paying them less than they pay Americans. When it comes time to do their punch lists (A punch list is things the jobsite Superintendent says needs to be fixed or changed), the Mexicans who cant read English and most barely speak any, cant understand what needs to be done so the Framing Contractor pays someone who does understand to do it for them. Because the Mexican crews get paid alot less the Contractor still comes out ahead after paying a punch carpenter to do their work for them.
i understand your point, but blame this peoples who hire unqualified labors. Blame people who like to buy cheaper homes. Ugly capitalists like to earn more for yourself
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Originally posted by Elfie
Mrblack your dad still have that sod farm? I need a job bad :)
You probably heard of it.
Richlawn turf farms.
And no he sold it years ago.
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Originally posted by ramzey
How about tents for people who overspeed or drive drunk? same level of crime? no thay are worse.
We do have tents for these people, a guy I knew spent 6 months there for DUI.
If someone knowingly breaks the laws to come to the US, I don't care why they broke the law, I want the practice to stop.
Yeah, maybe it's hard to get a work visa. Does that mean Mexicans get to jump in front of all the other poeple awaiting visas and just cross the border illegally?
Does the law mean nothing?
I have no problem with somenone coming here for a better life....thats what made this country great.
Allowing 2 million ( I thinks thats the number) illegals to flood across our borders a year is needs to be stopped. And since most Mexicans deported come right back, we need to figure out what to do about that.
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and thos people come back to U.S cuz is huge hole in border
Blame goverment not this people
if law or goverment is against peoples , peoples whould change it
is that not first rule of U.S constitution? ;-)
back to nazi topic
Do you realise where from come nazist? what was on begin?
men who group "native" germans, comming form war and have no jobs. Thay start wearing black and brown shirts and blame comunist and jews(jews in not offended word in Polish language, so if somone feel offended im sorry) for steling his jobs. Thay got idea about "tents" camps. And that its start
Im not sure you can fing this in U.S elementary history book
ramzey
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Originally posted by ramzey
and thos people come back to U.S cuz is huge hole in border
Blame goverment not this people
So in theory, if your car door locks dont work and you cant lock your car at night, and I came there every night and stole something out of your car, it might be your fault and not mine?
I couldn't be held accountable for breaking the law?
And I do blame the government, for not throwing them in jail or making sure they can't get back across our border. Every day when I see them on the corners, I wonder why they are not rounded up and deported PRONTO like.
Tent City Jail for second offenders, 6 months
Third Offense: Tent City Jail for 5 years
Sounds reasonable to me.
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A place like this is good enough and should do for illegal imigrants
Sherrif Joe talks about his jail
Tent Jail (http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/)
"You have been convicted. You're doing your time. Do your time and shut your mouth and do what you have to do."
Arpaio makes inmates pay for their meals, which some say are worse than those for the guard dogs. Canines eat $1.10 worth of food a day, the inmate 90 cents, the sheriff says. "I'm very proud of that too."
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Originally posted by NUKE
So in theory, if your car door locks dont work and you cant lock your car at night, and I came there every night and stole something out of your car, it might be your fault and not mine?
I couldn't be held accountable for breaking the law?
And I do blame the government, for not throwing them in jail or making sure they can't get back across our border. Every day when I see them on the corners, I wonder why they are not rounded up and deported PRONTO like.
Tent City Jail for second offenders, 6 months
Third Offense: Tent City Jail for 5 years
Sounds reasonable to me.
Exactly. Tent city jail for 6 months for first offenders.
Shoot second offenders.
Or put up one of those invisible fences around the country, and outfit them with exploding collars like in the movies. BOOM
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you know its against human rights and international law, signed by U.S gov?
Illegal imigrants its not new story.
You can say thay are steel jobs and broke law, but give a lot of people work too. Centuries, lawyers, policeman's , tax collectors and many gov agendas.
Thay catch tem and send back, "alliens" come back, they search for them capturing ........... and roll over again. Happy wheel of life
If gov not like them, why the hell run a lot spanisch language commercials for recrouting to army? ;-) I bet U.S citizen must know english;-)
and if somone stell your goods call police and insurance
So far as i see U.S is most quiet and peacefull places on earth.
On my street i have car without window and noone stell them.
If somone like to robbery somone home its not problem to go inside from backyard. But i not know anyone who was robber.
People live here keys in car and go away, noone steel car.
live "alliens" alone, its part of U.S
i think you overreacted
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Originally posted by ramzey
you know its against human rights and international law, signed by U.S gov?
Illegal imigrants its not new story.
You can say thay are steel jobs and broke law, but give a lot of people work too. Centuries, lawyers, policeman's , tax collectors and many gov agendas.
Thay catch tem and send back, "alliens" come back, they search for them capturing ........... and roll over again. Happy wheel of life
If gov not like them, why the hell run a lot spanisch language commercials for recrouting to army? ;-) I bet U.S citizen must know english;-)
and if somone stell your goods call police and insurance
So far as i see U.S is most quiet and peacefull places on earth.
On my street i have car without window and noone stell them.
If somone like to robbery somone home its not problem to go inside from backyard. But i not know anyone who was robber.
People live here keys in car and go away, noone steel car.
live "alliens" alone, its part of U.S
i think you overreacted
I think you're on crack. They are called "illegal" for a reason. It's against the law.
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Originally posted by NUKE
A place like this is good enough and should do for illegal imigrants
Sherrif Joe talks about his jail
Tent Jail (http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/)
(http://www.dweebs.de/phpBB2/images/smiles/eusa_clap.gif)
you can act like that if they are U.S citizens, or do heavy crime against people.
Strange is , you like to spend money to feed illegal imigrants insted of enyou of taxes payed by them every day
really great idea:aok
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Originally posted by ramzey
(http://www.dweebs.de/phpBB2/images/smiles/eusa_clap.gif)
you can act like that if they are U.S citizens, or do heavy crime against people.
Strange is , you like to spend money to feed illegal imigrants insted of enyou of taxes payed by them every day
really great idea:aok
Yeah, I'd feed them for 5 years in that jail, then make it so the penalty for coming back is too great for them to want to risk it again, problem solved! :aok
I just though a another great idea: when we deport them back, plant one bullet on each of them...... then when they get caught for that MINOR crime, they will rot in a Mexican jail and have it 100 times worse than any tent city.
Mexicans are so good to their people, we are so bad and evil.
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Originally posted by Martlet
I think you're on crack. They are called "illegal" for a reason. It's against the law.
who said not?
how do you think are you better of them as human?
and how do you think how many of them like to be "illegal" in U.S?
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Originally posted by NUKE
Yeah, I'd feed them for 5 years in that jail, then make it so the penalty for coming back is too great for them to want to risk it again, problem solved! :aok
as a kid you not read story about honey, bee and bear?? ;-)
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Originally posted by ramzey
who said not?
how do you think are you better of them as human?
and how do you think how many of them like to be "illegal" in U.S?
Ramzey, you are too much.
If they don't like being illegal, then they could stay on the other side of the border! :lol
You sound like the kind of person who blames everyone but the lawbreakers.
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they not like to be illegal, but love so much this beutifull country
and like to stay her for any price, even broke law
its so hard to understand?
if you cannot have something legal , you try less legal way and pay lots of money for that ( for lawyers)
if you love somone did you not do everything for him? even on the edge of law?
i not blame anyone
"illegal" for be here , this is his choice and risk
and gov searching for them and sending back, this is thier job's
its a part of life, not big story and no reason for kill somone or put to jail
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Originally posted by ramzey
they not like to be illegal, but love so much this beutifull country
and like to stay her for any price, even broke law
its so hard to understand?
if you cannot have something legal , you try less legal way and pay lots of money for that ( for lawyers)
if you love somone did you not do everything for him? even on the edge of law?
i not blame anyone
"illegal" for be here , this is his choice and risk
and gov searching for them and sending back, this is thier job's
its a part of life, not big story and no reason for kill somone or put to jail
We have immigration laws for a reason. Just because you love something, doesn't mean you get to have it. I'd love to bed down Jordana Brewster. She doesn't want me. Does that mean I can go take her because I really love her?
No. It's illegal. Just like illegal immigrants. I'm not better than them as a human. I'm better than them as a citizen .
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Originally posted by ramzey
they not like to be illegal, but love so much this beutifull country
and like to stay her for any price, even broke law
its so hard to understand?
if you cannot have something legal , you try less legal way and pay lots of money for that ( for lawyers)
if you love somone did you not do everything for him? even on the edge of law?
i not blame anyone
"illegal" for be here , this is his choice and risk
and gov searching for them and sending back, this is thier job's
its a part of life, not big story and no reason for kill somone or put to jail
Ramzey,
Have a little scenario for you. An illegal immigrant driving with
no lics or auto insurance has an accident in which a person is killed. What would you say to the family? That it's a part of life,
and just forget it?
Aside from that these "immigrants" seem to actually be economic
migrants, not true "settlers".
Rino
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Originally posted by Martlet
We have immigration laws for a reason. Just because you love something, doesn't mean you get to have it. I'd love to bed down Jordana Brewster. She doesn't want me. Does that mean I can go take her because I really love her?
No. It's illegal. Just like illegal immigrants. I'm not better than them as a human. I'm better than them as a citizen .
exacly, law is not without reason
and you not send them back without reason
but if you like cross line and put them to jail for many years, for that its start smell bad
Dont know who is Jordana, but if you realy love her ;-) buy shes poster and love her quiet.:aok If you vilolate her privacy, burn on chair ;-)
you cannot compare rape to be here illegal.
Its like like compare bad driver to drink driver
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Originally posted by ramzey
you cannot compare rape to be here illegal.
Its like like compare bad driver to drink driver
You certainly can make the comparison. It's actually a good comparison. Just because you really want something, doesn't give you the right to take it.
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Thats right.
My Dad had a Sod Farm when I was growing up and the only people who would do that kind of HARD work was guys from Mexico.
And yes they where illegals.
But there were not any white boys that would or could do that kind of work.
not at the wages offered. but had the illegals not screwed with the suply & demand, bargaining situation by comming in and working for wages that don't reflect the amount of work for this job market.
had the illeagals not been there to interfear with the ballance, you would have a shortage of workers, and would have to offer more wages or better conditions to lure employees from competing farms (you can substitute any other bussiness here).
others would have to raise wages to compete with you. the pay would increase and eventually get to a point where people would be eager to get the job, because the amount of pay (or health insurance or other for of compensation)makes it worth it. of course you would end up paying them somewhere much closer to fair market value for their effort (for this job market, as it is they get paid a good wage compared to the mexican job market, but for an american who lives here perminantly, pays taxes on his wages, or can be tracked down to pay medical bills he skips out on, it's a starvation wage for back breaking conditions.
when people talk free trade they mean unrestricted trade. freedom to exploit the people and resourses of your land to whatever degree your conscience will allow (and from the conditions many of our comapnies will except from the people employed in their contract shops overseas, corperate americas conscience allows a lot of leeway)
for true free trade, all forign products sold here should be made to provide what we consider minimum working conditions and wages. or at the very least add tariffs to those that don't at least eqal to the cost of implementing these conditions.
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Originally posted by Rino
Ramzey,
Have a little scenario for you. An illegal immigrant driving with
no lics or auto insurance has an accident in which a person is killed. What would you say to the family? That it's a part of life,
and just forget it?
Aside from that these "immigrants" seem to actually be economic
migrants, not true "settlers".
Rino
no im not forget,
but as i supose you will tell to family same, if
legal citizen with driver licence and insurance kill somone
Insurance has nothing to do with family lost (of couse if familiy is not focused on money), driving lience yes
But in CA even illegal can get it.
Of course legal citizen can drive without insurance and driving or not valid driving licence ? huh?
One diference is, family who lost member in "illegal" accident will possibly start hate "aliens"
And as far as i know "illegal" who do accident will be judge and jprisoned like regular citizen.
I dont think you can separate them, mostly people migrate for work since begin of humanity. Country can be beutifull not only by great ocean, woods, weather and montains around. But by economic reasons too.
And if they start buying goods, houses and have children born here. They are true settlers. Thats sure
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Originally posted by ramzey
I dont think you can separate them, mostly people migrate for work since begin of humanity. Country can be beutifull not only by great ocean, woods, weather and montains around. But by economic reasons too.
And if they start buying goods, houses and have children born here. They are true settlers. Thats sure
They also send 2 billion dollars a month back to Mexico. That really helps the local economy. Earn the money here, then ship it overseas.
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Originally posted by Martlet
You certainly can make the comparison. It's actually a good comparison. Just because you really want something, doesn't give you the right to take it.
So if you ar bad driver ( catched for bad parking) or drink driver catched by police. Both should be imprisoned for 5 years in tents?
if you really like to have something (green card?) you should wait on other side of border, and looking for miracle.
Or go to US illegal and try to earn money to "buy" it?
That not mean you get rights for sure if you are here, you must hard work for it, if you are illegal here. And hide from IND for couple years.
Al the rest is lawyer and money to spend for beurocracy.
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Originally posted by ramzey
So if you ar bad driver ( catched for bad parking) or drink driver catched by police. Both should be imprisoned for 5 years in tents?
if you really like to have something (green card?) you should wait on other side of border, and looking for miracle.
Or go to US illegal and try to earn money to "buy" it?
That not mean you get rights for sure if you are here, you must hard work for it, if you are illegal here. And hide from IND for couple years.
Al the rest is lawyer and money to spend for beurocracy.
For citizens, the punishment should fit the crime. Illegals aren't citizens.
Yes, they should sit across the border and wait to get one. If they cross the border illegally, they should be shot.
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Originally posted by Martlet
They also send 2 billion dollars a month back to Mexico. That really helps the local economy. Earn the money here, then ship it overseas.
are you not understand why?
come on, if they got captured they will havenothing in wallet
so better secure yourself and send money in place where they will be sended back.
and better this money will be spend for hungrys then for another star wars
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if you really like to have something (green card?) you should wait on other side of border, and looking for miracle.
Or go to US illegal and try to earn money to "buy" it?
you go the first route and it's the only way we should except. when someone comes here to compete with our citizens for jobs. his first act on american soil is to break our laws, then I say as a country and a society we can do without him.
those who arived here illeagally have already proven a disregard for our legal system and an intention violate the system to their advatage when they stand to proffit from it. we don't need people like that in this country. frankly we have enough natives like that (but they're our problem we can't really ship them off to someone else) but we damn sure already have plenty of this type here and we don't need to allow more to imigrate.
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Originally posted by ramzey
are you not understand why?
come on, if they got captured they will havenothing in wallet
so better secure yourself and send money in place where they will be sended back.
and better this money will be spend for hungrys then for another star wars
Who cares why? Shoot them, then the can't go back and enjoy the money.
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Originally posted by Martlet
For citizens, the punishment should fit the crime. Illegals aren't citizens.
Yes, they should sit across the border and wait to get one. If they cross the border illegally, they should be shot.
you just state, citizens and illegals have not similar human rights? or i miss something?
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Originally posted by ramzey
you just state, citizens and illegals have not similar human rights? or i miss something?
Illegals should have no rights. They are illegals.
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kind of on an aside on this subject.
I caught a story on tv awhile back (I think 20/20 or 60 minutes, I don't remember some news show with that type of format).
anyway it was talking about a stretch of dessert where illegals are known to cross and not uncommon that they die of thirst.
there's this group down there (they only interviewed the one guy though) that sets up stations with tall flagpoles so you can find them from far off, they keep these stocked with water to help the illegals make it across.
they where spotlighting the guy as a humanitarian and what a wonderfull thing he's doing.
I saw him as a felon, aiding and abedding someone who is comitting a crime against this country. if he's worried about their health he could set up a cellphone type call-box at these locations instead of water. that way if they were in danger of not making it, they could use the box to call immigration to come pick them up, give them a bit of medical attention and send them home to tell all the others how the dessert kicked their prettythang and all they got for it was a free trip home.
my wife dis-agrees and see's it as a positive thing, as he is saving lives.
I agree that it does save lives but in the same way that someone providing cover or a get-away ride for a bankrobber involved in a shootout is 'saving his life'.
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Your wife is wrong. It cost more lives because it encourages more to come. By giving them false hope.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
you go the first route and it's the only way we should except. when someone comes here to compete with our citizens for jobs. his first act on american soil is to break our laws, then I say as a country and a society we can do without him.
those who arived here illeagally have already proven a disregard for our legal system and an intention violate the system to their advatage when they stand to proffit from it. we don't need people like that in this country. frankly we have enough natives like that (but they're our problem we can't really ship them off to someone else) but we damn sure already have plenty of this type here and we don't need to allow more to imigrate.
its really good answer, but im sorry you not convince me to prison somone for 5 years in tents.
If only way to live in U.S is broke law, bettr for them to die starving? or take risk?
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Originally posted by ramzey
its really good answer, but im sorry you not convince me to prison somone for 5 years in tents.
If only way to live in U.S is broke law, bettr for them to die starving? or take risk?
They can die how ever they'd like.
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I don't think they should be jailed I think they should be deported, I think if they continue to come back after a deportation or 2 a bit of jail time might make the point.
the fact is they don't pay taxes on their income(which is one of the reasons they can work for less money). americans who don't pay taxes get to go to prison, illegals get a hot meal, a free ride home and they keep their illegaly earned wages and have plenty of activist groups looking out for them.
maybe other types of criminals should have such a support system in place.
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its closed wheel
like in Polish law about selling your body ( being potato)
Tax office cannot charge you for selling yourself beucose prostitution is illegal in Poland.
But you must pay taxes, so must lie about you own busines and register it as "massage" or something.
They cannot pay taxes beucose are here illegal
Thay are here illegal , so is no way to pay taxes and not be deported.
Tax office cannot charge somone who not exist. Thay cannot register for work cuz they are not exist.
If they get rights to pay taxes, they start be legal here.
If they start be here legal and pay taxes will demand higher payrols, cuz they are here legal . And must earn more to pay taxes.
If gov establish easy way to come in US, soon will be here half of the world. And that will ruin this country. Without cheap workers , big companies move yourself to places where labours are cheeper. And som kinde's of works cannot be done, cuz noone will like to work for so low money.
U.S was build on the backs's of chaap immigrants laybours. Let them still work
weird wheel
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Originally posted by ramzey
i understand your point, but blame this peoples who hire unqualified labors. Blame people who like to buy cheaper homes. Ugly capitalists like to earn more for yourself
Fact is, the new homes arent being sold any cheaper. The only person making any more money in this case is the framing contractors.
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You are from Poland correct Ramzey?
I have an idea.....why dont we (America) round up all the ILLEGAL immigrants and ship them to Poland. Then when they take jobs from you, your family or friends you will sing a different tune.
We have immigration laws for a reason. If you break those laws you have no buisiness being here.
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They cannot pay taxes beucose are here illegal
Thay are here illegal , so is no way to pay taxes and not be deported.
Tax office cannot charge somone who not exist. Thay cannot register for work cuz they are not exist.
If they get rights to pay taxes, they start be legal here.
If they start be here legal and pay taxes will demand higher payrols, cuz they are here legal . And must earn more to pay taxes.
very good point, especially the part about those who come here legally and follow the laws would need to make more money for the work (just like the rest of us require). so not only do these criminals working illegaly in our country screw up the wage/work ration by providing labor that doesn't require the payment of things that honest employers and workers pay (taxes, ss taxes, workers comp, unemployment insurance[which keeps people who do seasonal work from joining the welfare roles when out of work, as some of the money that would have been available to you as wages is set aside to cover the off time when you are unemployed through no fault of your own]
all of these things cost the employer to provide, also safe working conditions, through safety equipment, training, maintenence of tools, and work-comp insurance cost a large amount of cash(work-comp premiums can be more than the wages themselves in some types of construction)
so it's not just the wages that give the POS hiring illegals an unfair advantage. it's not even half of the savings.
and all this screws the american worker, and it screws the imigrant who came here legally, who have to pay into the same funds and taxes we all do. while competing with a person who is untaxed, uninsured, not providing any contingency for when the work ends (unemployment) to keep him off the welfare lines and or planning for their own healthcare so they don't just run up emergancy room bills and move on leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab through increased cost.
it also screws the honest american bussinessman who cares about his employees and wants to provide a chance to earn a good life, and a work environment that is as safe as reasonably achivable. preffers to provide decent wmployment where where honest hard working law-abiding people whos work keeps his bussines and income flowing.
every time we over-look illegals working here, and the POS who hire them we put a screwing into the honest bussinesment and the workers (native or imigrant) who do an honest days work and follow the laws.
"I needed the money" is no more a valid excuse for illeagal employment practices than it is for theft or robery.
we often look the other way on work place law but every time you let it slide you make our system more profitable for the criminals and harder for the honest man to get by.
it's not reasonable to operate under a system that reward crooks and then complain about crime rates.
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Originally posted by Elfie
You are from Poland correct Ramzey?
I have an idea.....why dont we (America) round up all the ILLEGAL immigrants and ship them to Poland. Then when they take jobs from you, your family or friends you will sing a different tune.
We have immigration laws for a reason. If you break those laws you have no buisiness being here.
dude, we have our own illegal imigrants. U.S are not separated example. Everyone moving to west ;)
From china in both directions, from Russia , Ukraina, Poland to Germany, France, UK to far west.
Sometimes they are only transiting, sometimes stay.
It allways was , and will be for whole world. You like or not
We not need illegal imigrants to ruin our economy, we have our own politics;-)
And dont hide behinde law words. You like to use them only if is for you good. Sometimes this words are empty
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Did you guys know that, for a person caught illegally in the US for the first time, it is a misdomeanor
A second time being caught and it's a felony.
I say off to the tent city jails for 5 years.
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Originally posted by Elfie
I have an idea.....why dont we (America) round up all the ILLEGAL immigrants and ship them to Poland. Then when they take jobs from you, your family or friends you will sing a different tune.
You, your family or your friends are losing jobs to illegal immigrants?
As far as I know the fast food, janitorial, and kitchen services are always looking for employees.
Anything else, I'm pretty sure there is no contest an American will get a job over an illegal immigrant.
-SW
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
You, your family or your friends are losing jobs to illegal immigrants?
As far as I know the fast food, janitorial, and kitchen services are always looking for employees.
Anything else, I'm pretty sure there is no contest an American will get a job over an illegal immigrant.
-SW
lol, so true
:D
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Originally posted by Dune
Give them their back pay and ship them back to Mexico.
Most of the Wal-Mart illegals rounded up in the first batch were eastern europeans.
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As far as I know the fast food, janitorial, and kitchen services are always looking for employees.
I went to 9 different fast food restaurants last week looking to fill out applications, only 2 even let me fill one out. They said they weren't hiring now but would keep my app on file :lol
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Most of the Wal-Mart illegals rounded up in the first batch were eastern europeans.
So send them back to whichever country they came from.
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Originally posted by NUKE
I say off to the tent city jails for 5 years.
Who wants to pay for that?
Our Republican Congress and President aren't too big on doing anything about the illegal problem that might actually solve it, like arresting employers of illegal aliens. This would cause other problems though, like wrecking certain sectors of the economy.
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I think it would be cheaper to put them in tent cities and put an end to their blatant law breaking than to continue to allow them to pour into the country.
I also think that there needs to be a deterent factor. If they get locked up, I doudt they'd come back again illegally.
There are an estimated 8-12 million here illegally now. Something has to be done about them. They need to be rounded up and shipped back to where they came from. If they come back, jail time!
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You, your family or your friends are losing jobs to illegal immigrants?
As far as I know the fast food, janitorial, and kitchen services are always looking for employees.
Anything else, I'm pretty sure there is no contest an American will get a job over an illegal immigrant.
-SW
these jobs are only undesireable because the wages are kept low by people in theis country illegaly, working for illegal wages, and in illegal conditions.
if the illegals weren't there to take the jobs at the wages offered, then the wages would have to be increased until they became more valuable, making the job more and more desireable until enough people where interseted that the job would be filled.
that's how you arive at what a 'fair wage' is (unless you are in a union with a colective bargaining agreement), if nobody(who is legaly able to work) is interested in doing the job(legally with all apropriet taxes paid), at the offered wage then the job isn't paying enough. quite simply if the situation was a fair exchange of work for wage you'd have no problem finding an army of people willing to take that job.
by the same token if you had hundreds waiting in line for any available opening, then it's a fairly safe bet your providing wages (or other compensation) that prospective employees more than fair. or at the very least competitive with other options they have available.
it's like the people who whine constantly that they can't find employees who are bright, dependable and with a good work ethic. my usual opinion is that maybe the reason they aren't seeing 'desirable potential employees' in their interview process is they aren't offering enough to catch the interest of those who have other choices. when you offer minimum wage you shouldn't be suprised when minimum quality aplicants show up.
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Originally posted by NUKE
You mean have them ask The Spanish, French and English right :)
p.s. The US aquired our land legally from England, France, Mexico and Russia.
You really should learn your history some more. We got the land from Mexico by declaring war on false pretenses so we can fulfill our Manifest Destiny. At the time an unknown Congressman from Illinios challenged Polk about the war, daring him to name the spot where American blood on American soil was spilled, which was the excuse that Polk and the Hawks in Congress used to declare war on Mexico. Of course Polk couldn't, especially since the land was actually still part of Mexico (Mexico didn't recognize Texas' independence and considered them a rebellious province) but by then the war was over and nothing could be done. The young Congressman from Illinios later got his nickname for challenging Polk, they called him Abraham "Name the Spot" Lincoln, which hopefully you know, later became our 16th President.
History books are a wonderful thing, you should pick one up sometime and actually read it. It beats getting your history lessons from the jack-booted right-wingers you hear on talk radio.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You really should learn your history some more. We got the land from Mexico by declaring war on false pretenses so we can fulfill our Manifest Destiny. At the time an unknown Congressman from Illinios challenged Polk about the war, daring him to name the spot where American blood on American soil was spilled, which was the excuse that Polk and the Hawks in Congress used to declare war on Mexico. Of course Polk couldn't, especially since the land was actually still part of Mexico (Mexico didn't recognize Texas' independence and considered them a rebellious province) but by then the war was over and nothing could be done. The young Congressman from Illinios later got his nickname for challenging Polk, they called him Abraham "Name the Spot" Lincoln, which hopefully you know, later became our 16th President.
History books are a wonderful thing, you should pick one up sometime and actually read it. It beats getting your history lessons from the jack-booted right-wingers you hear on talk radio.
Ack-Ack
Actually, that doesn't paint an accurate picture. The inhabitants of Texas rose up against Mexico after they tried to reign in the province. Texas declared independence from Mexico, and asked to become part of the United States. In 1845 we made it official. Mexico didn't recognize that, and in 1846 attacked Texas.
Lincoln essentially made a stink because he was anti-slavery and had aspired to be President. Whether or not Mexico recognized Texas as part of the U.S. really doesn't matter. England could still be saying that the U.S. belonged to them, it doesn't make it so.
None of that really has anything to do with punishing illegal aliens, though.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Who wants to pay for that?
Our Republican Congress and President aren't too big on doing anything about the illegal problem that might actually solve it, like arresting employers of illegal aliens.
That will never happen because it means cutting off big $$$$ political contributions. Remember back in the '90s when Wilson was Governor of California and he signed a bill into law that made it illegal to raid places of businesses for illegal aliens after a multi-billion dollar lobby effort by the agricultural and hospitality industries? Money talks, bull**** walks.
ack-ack
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You can put them all in prison for as many years as you like. Here in Spain we receive a steady influx of immigrants from Africa.
You hear in the news that many of them drown trying to cross the strait of Gibraltar. You can send them back to Africa. You can put them in jail.
If living in your country means no future, wars, or even starvation, being in jail in a civilized country or dying trying to get there is not such a bad outcome.
Unless life standards in those countries improve, you can put as many penalties as you want, they'll keep on coming.
Daniel
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
You can put them all in prison for as many years as you like. Here in Spain we receive a steady influx of immigrants from Africa.
You hear in the news that many of them drown trying to cross the strait of Gibraltar. You can send them back to Africa. You can put them in jail.
Daniel
Do you have 8-12 million illegally in your country? We have a BIG problem that needs to be addressed. There needs to be a deterence to these blatant law breakers.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Most of the Wal-Mart illegals rounded up in the first batch were eastern europeans.
som poles too,
strange i heard about that "incydent" over month agp
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Who wants to pay for that?
for som bullet and buldoger never was too expencive;-)
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Originally posted by NUKE
Do you have 8-12 million illegally in your country? We have a BIG problem that needs to be addressed. There needs to be a deterence to these blatant law breakers.
Having a population of 40 million, obviously our immigration numbers aren't that large. However, there IS a solution to the problem: just ask your companies not to hire those illegal immigrants. None. Zero. Not for a ridiculous salary. Not for even just food. Not for nothing.
If they keep coming is because they get hired or at least their life conditions or their future look more promising than at home.
Daniel
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
just ask your companies not to hire those illegal immigrants. None. Zero. Not for a ridiculous salary. Not for even just food. Not for nothing.
That is the problem. Small contractors take their pickups to places around the border and pick up illegals to work for the day for cheap labor. Maybe these contractors should be put in a tent city for awhile.
I think they should get the pay they worked for. But they knew what they were doing was illegal, so it might deter future illegals to sue if the difference is lost in a hefty fine.
I'm not going to condemn though. They come from a desperate situation to send money home to put food on the table, and they are not robbing stores, collecting welfare, selling drugs, or breaking into your home. They got a job.(albeit as an illegal alien)