Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: fradim on September 26, 2000, 09:34:00 AM
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I have witnessed this depressing conversation last sunday at night, in the
public channel of Main Arena. I have omitted names because if it were personal I would send this message to them:
1st pilot: women from south america
2nd pilot: lol
1st pilot: i actually think they are cheaper from the philipines though
2rd pilot: nah, eastern bloc countries are best
1st pilot: but they got snaggle teeth
3rd pilot: Philipines ... thats where ya wanna order a wife
4th pilot: 1st pilot your mistaken, they have no teeth
......
I really don't care what these people think. But I DO care when they express these unworthy ideas in a public channel, in such a shameless and unconcerned manner. This is certainly not something we might expect to see in a mutinational environment as the one we have in Aces High.
I have decided to avoid any kind of quarrel out of respect for the other players online and my squad mates. Besides, I believe this is the best forum in which we can discuss such issues, in a mature way.
I hope we all remember here that Aces High is not just a game/sim: it's a community, in which we interact with people from all over the world; people with their own ideas and biases but who share with us the same need of
respect and civility.
fradim
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Here we go...
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<S> fradim......
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I have an old work peer that bought his wife from Russia. No kidding, it cost him about $20k total and he had to fly there twice. Once to meet her and her family, the next time to marry her and bring her back here to Texas.
What's wrong with that?
Udie
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"Here we go" ?? I think that line helped me lose any last visage of respect I had for you Dejavu. Not that you probably care.
I think Fradim's point is an obvious lack of respect on the part of some players. I do not see him asking for a program to inject politeness into players dialogues.
In the past I've try to step up and remind people that we have an international community here. Whenever I read some idiot blurt out into the radio "we SpEak eNglish hear!!" or crudely ask "what is all this French gibberish??" (exagerated to reflect my contempt for thier ignorant attitudes but both are real examples of what I have seen online)
A few weeks ago we had a player politely request that folks stop refering to the Japanese as "Japs." What a pile of greif he got. IMO, Fradim has every right to be offended and he is asking people to wake up and be aware that what many of our "jokes" online, especially those with racist/ethnic conatations, IS bound to offend some.
This is all about respect. Not about a filter. I see no one asking for a muzzle or "book burning". This is about common courtesy and respect.
Just my .02.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 09-26-2000).]
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Boy, do we need 1.05 and some Pacific ops soon. You guys have nuthing but time to moan about message buffer. Blah blah on,and on....
Actually, after playing the new Crimson Sky Demo last night(Hawaii map), we REALLY need 1.05 and new terrain. You guys see those graphics? Man O man...
BTW, it only cost $1 for me to get my fiances address from Davao City Philippines. (Actually $5 total foe 5 diffrent addresses, but really clicked with one.) 2 years later, couldn't be happier. So I say Philippines is cheapest if thats the argument?
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Originally posted by Udie:
I have an old work peer that bought his wife from Russia. No kidding, it cost him about $20k total and he had to fly there twice. Once to meet her and her family, the next time to marry her and bring her back here to Texas.
What's wrong with that?
Udie
Nothink, if you think people can be bought like livestock, in fact slavery never ended, is'nt it? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Everythink have a price. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Even Dignity and honor. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Bleach... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
I hope you were trolling, Udie.
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humpf.
first we got a filter for bad words (not that I mind a lot), now people starts asking for conversation control?
I dont say that the conversantion Fradim says is very constructive or not. I say that nobody here has the right to ask anyone to talk or not to talk about a matter.
people is free to say whatever in MA. I remember at least 2 people with the word "nazi" in their handle,yelling nonsense in the arnea and they didnt get a single word about banning in this BBS.
Let people talk about what they want, sheesh.
at this pace someday there will be smoke detectors to prevent people smoking while playing AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
(and no, I dont smoke)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 09-26-2000).]
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HEY !! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
DONT (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
EVEN (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
TRY (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
TO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
MAKE (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
ME (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
QUIT (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
SMOKING (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif)
:MAD:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Yo All!
First of all: yes, it is depressing when you see humans treated like a peace of meat. I have alot of respect for woman and for all humanity. Those guys, in a few words, showed no respect for either woman or humanity. "Order a wife"? "Oh, please, include 2 children and a 6 pack of beer on the order, make shure one of the childres is from philipnies becouse they are cheaper!!!" Doesnt it sound pathetic? It disgusts me. Human is not merchandise. Yes, this is a way worse than cursing for me. I'd rather hear 1000 f*cks than 1 conversation like that.
2- Udie, if your friend is so incompetent with woman that he feels better "ordering one" from wherever, well, poor rich guy he is but nothing really wrong with it. It's his problem.
Wrong is say things like: "Woman from south america are cheaper". Don't you see how imoral is it? I wanna know if you really think it's ok!
[]s to all!
Andre(S)
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I think the point here is to remind players that this is an international forum, and we might think twice before making "harmless" jokes that might insult other players.
If your view is that insulting other people is some kind of "right" that you are entitled to, then I doubt you'll be persuaded that respect for others is a reasonable request.
I don't expect any kind of official control on such behavior, but judging from HTC's reasons for installing the language filter, I suspect that they would like to see players exercise some courtesy toward each other in this case as well.
Will it hurt the game to have players make an effort to respect each other? I don't think so. If you think it will...think about THAT. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
popeye
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Originally posted by Creamo:
...BTW, it only cost $1 for me to get my fiances address from Davao City Philippines. (Actually $5 total foe 5 diffrent addresses, but really clicked with one.) 2 years later, couldn't be happier. So I say Philippines is cheapest if thats the argument?
Was that sight unseen on her part? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Scarey what folks will do to get in the U.S.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-26-2000).]
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Westy and fradim, I see your points and they are easy to agree with. But they also come just after a filter has been put in 8for good reasons) and makes me wonder if this is a trend of sorts. Allow me to rave on for a bit about PC'ness in general and this incident in particular. I really see PC'ness as a pseudo threat to the right to speak your mind. It's better to air something and be done with it than to have it grow in sub cultures and become powerful.
I can understand your social taboo against cursing, but this PC'ness gotta stop SOMEWHERE.
I hear jokes I don't find funny. It happens. But I don't try to force my sort of humour down the throat of others, or do I try to censor others just because I disagree with it. If I hear jokes I don't like, I just stop listening, or kindly ask people to be a bit more considerate
Humans joke about serious things. And we're fat, rich and happy (we who play AH) compared to most. Insensitive joke, sure, but a joke nevertheless.
What's next? No jokes about allied being opportunists, because it upsets someone who had family who fought in the war? No more calling German krauts because "it brings back bad memories"?
ANY joke will likely offend at least ONE person.
Shit. I've had enough of PC'ness. Be PC yourself, but don't force it on me. I'll make crude insensitive jokes and be an overall amazinhunk now and then. For the fun of it.
I'll go kill some whales, eat Flipper and shoot Bambi. Take the car around to the shop, and let the engine run while I'm inside. I'll refer to japanese as Japs, and eat red meat in front of vegans. I'll vote yes for nuclear power, and no to more taxes on gas. I'll crack jokes about gays and blondes. Will continue to buy beer instead of sending money to starving Africans. Also openly support legalisation of drugs comparable to alcohol, and publicly denounce any politician of my choice. I'll berate writers I don't like. And I will call an idiot an idiot, not a "mentally deprived person".
I won't be anti-PC, but I shall be a-PC.
If stuff like this gets to you, you've lived a sheltered, secure safe little life and haven't been forced to grow thick skin on yer nose. There are a LOT worse things out there than insensitive jokes.
Of course I'll respect my fellow pilots and if they request I discontinue something they find particularly offensive, I might stop doing it, out of respect for them. But I will *not* be bullied into stopping.
I find chute shooting more offensive, as it is directed at the person, not some undefined target. Most seem to be OK with chute shooting though, so I keep my mouth shut and live with it. Ain't that bad really.
------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
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Originally posted by Naso:
Nothink, if you think people can be bought like livestock, in fact slavery never ended, is'nt it? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Everythink have a price. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Even Dignity and honor. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Bleach... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
I hope you were trolling, Udie.
NO I wasn't trolling. I realy don't see the problem though. He did "buy" her like a slave hehe. He had to go there and meet her and her family, after they corisponded for 6 months. Then he had a 2 month waiting period to make sure that's what they both wanted.
That was 2 yrs ago, they have a beautiful 1 yr old baby now (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) both are happy here in Texas. Perhaps joking about it is bad, but I don't see anything wrong with mail order brides. Why should 2 people be alone just because they're seperated by a half a world?
Udie
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Westy got it! Rigth to the point.
Go back and read his posting again please!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Scarey what folks will do to get in the U.S.
Is this the part where we start insulting the wives? You might wanna leave that one alone.
...and take the picture of Lenny off yer messgage. That jokes over. I already proved how well you can attack real people over appearance while claiming to be Mr. Community leader. Get outta my boat.
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Udie, the mail order bride thing used to really disturb me. Then I had two conversations;
1) With a woman from India. She had an arranged marrrage, as was common. She talked extensively about it as a social standard. The general gist I got was that it had it's bad point (definately), but it's good points as well. She loved he husband and considered herself lucky. What really got me was that nothing she said really sounded that different from what I hear from me local female friends in terms of trying to make the relationship work.
2) I talked to a 'Russian Bride' from Uzbekistan. It was both apparent why she wanted out, and that she was neither stupid or evil. Still not something I would personally try, but I had to get off the high horse about it.
All that said, it sounds like the conversation heard by fradim was tactliss and obnoxious, but it is a bigger world than our tiny little viewpoint will show us on a day-to-day basis. The PC mindset is destructive, and does more to encourage anger and less to encourage understanding than any Bubba-Buttslapping conversation I've heard in backwoods PA.
Thog
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No one can argue about the rigt of any people to engage in a private conversation even if it is racist and derogatory to some of the people playing AH.
Once they do it on the open, rather then private or squad channel, it becomes a different issue altogeter and it affects AH
How many south-americans/jews/blacks/women/... would drop from AH if they see this kind of slur directed towards them even occasionally and nothing is done?
For that matter I do not care if Gore and G.W. start a polite and meaningfull presidential debate on channel one. It's not polite to fill everybody elses text buffer with private crap and make channel 1 unusable for everybody else.
As for having conversation on public channel in other language then the official one (English), it is also not very polite. I do understand such people, so thather then telling them to such up I would suggest that they, or better yet, HTC, to officially dedicate one channel to each major language spoken by the AH community - spanish, french, german, russian, etc...
No progtamming is required, just en entry in readme file that ch XXX is french now and ch YYY is for racist discussions.
As for "buying" russian wives by US citizens, Naso, have you tried living in Russia? Do you think they have any dignity left to sell?
In fact, such a women automatically becomes an american citizen and has more rights, liberties and dignity then most europeans will ever know.
As if arranged marriage is a thing of the past where you live...
BTW, US expeditionary forces brought plenty of russian wives from their brief intervention in 1919.
If you want to meet a beautiful, hard-working, intelligent, well-educated and unspoiled woman, you know where to look.
Don't you guys have matching services and newspaper "would like to meet..." ads in your countries? What is so different if people meet internationally?
Yes, there are expences involved and a husband would most likely have to help his wife's family after that. But again, she will be a citizen, even if she divorces him in 5 years, and in that case she will have rights on his property according to the state laws.
P.S. Don't know much about Phillipinos, but I know of a guy who got a wife there and they have a great loving family.
Many american women are either spoiled lazy ignorant brats brought up just to marry successfully or educated and motivated but obsessed with their careers to the exclusion of all personal life. That is the bad side of living in a society wich can provide lot of comfort and great opportunities at the same time - first spoils, second distracts.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 09-26-2000).]
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...while claiming to be Mr. Community leader.Get outta my boat!
Errr, come again? Seems you have a problem Creamo, heck, I don't have to resort to using the F word on the BBS, you do(want me to show you your own posts?) ...attack on wives? No, was a joke on your looks, and since I'm ugly, I joked about your picture you posted, so, Creamo, get a life.
Its obvious that you can insult people and walk away, but when a joke is made about you, you feel insulted, do I see a trend here Creamo?
BTW, I was never in your boat, don't degradate me by implying I may have been in your boat to begin with.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-26-2000).]
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I work in a company with exposure to cultural differences that many could not begin to understand. I don't pretend to have any in-depth knowledge as to any foreign country's goings on and don't pretend to. I do know a great deal about men and women from all over the world getting along.
I worked for someone that was Indian. He was just married (arranged) and now has a little boy. He is from a different tier of their cast system as another one of his co-workers. It was a complete revelation to me in regards to the workings of India's culture.
I have a good friend at work that just married a woman from Russia. Nobody was "bought". All money involved went to the service that connected them. He was fluent in German, and is pickup up Russian quite well. She is doing very well with her English. She adores him and he returns every bit of it. They are working on their second child.
I have another friend that was on a plane from Japan when he met a Japanese woman that he really hit it off with. They fell in love, but the relationship was terminated after her parents found out she was dating an American. Later, he met a Korean woman over the internet that he later married. They are on their second child and it is a pleasure to hang around both of them.
I have an aquaintance that is on the opposite end of the spectrum. No offense to the originator of this thread.. but he is "into" Brazillian women. He's on his 4th Brazillian wife... er... he's just finished with his 4th Brazillian wife and is currently dating a 19 year old Brazillian woman. There is a very good reason why this man is an "aquaintance" and not a friend. I cannot respect him.
I'm sorry that people are offended that any of this goes on. I'm sorry that people are that sensitive. I'm also sorry that we are having a discussion on how sensitive we should be in the arena.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
he met a Japanese woman ... but the relationship was terminated after her parents found out she was dating an American
Compications of internationall relationships? Cast system? No need to go that far. Want to give your jewish mother a heart attack? Try telling her you are marrying a russian girl... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Quite a few relationships I knew were broken because of that but I think in most cases the prospective bride actually benefited in the long run. Except in cases where she could have left the country - in Soviet Union only jews and germans could leave the country because of the internationall pressure and in exchange for US grain trade.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 09-26-2000).]
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Oh.. and for anyone that thinks that I over-reacted in my first post.
Read the title of this thread.
What was just banned.
This is worse.
What is the implication.
AKDejaVu
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I have a headache...... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Fradim, I understand that you were upset by the public chat that you saw. Could you please elucidate on what your personal code of ethics would allow people to discuss on open comm? Then if everyone else would please respond with their personal prejudices we could then have a big kill filter to save everyone from being offended in any way what so ever. Or better yet get rid of the text chat and just have a drop down box, with "nice bounce", "hello everyone" etc.... no "good kill" tho. That could be seen to promote killing and offend those who have been victims of a violent crime.
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Another way to look at this whole MA atmosphere debate:
We now have two tools to make the atmosphere more palatable for those who have grown tired of the behavior; squelch and filter.
One of the options is controllable by us, the other is implemented with the dual purpose of eliminating a lot of the "noise" and to send a message to all that there are acceptable levels of behavior. HTC alone dictates what those levels are, and we are to abide by those desires.
When and if HTC determines that the filter has served its purpose it can be disabled. We have the ability to end it, and we accomplish that by behaving.
The filter doesn't totally prevent people from being abusive- indeed I doubt there truly is a panacea for that end. It does send a message (or at least, should) that the MA atmosphere is a bit out of hand. Squelch can help fill in the gaps where the filter does not bring satisfaction.
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I agree with you Kieren. I just wanted to weigh in with a show of solidarity for a fellow player who lives in another country.
My piece been said, I'm avoiding soap box's for a while.
-Westy
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DrippyShorts, I watched you flop around like a fish for a week over that spoof picture. You couldn't insult it enough. Indeed, you were in the boat 'ol boy. That's why you saved the picture in the first place eltardo.
You can feel free to insult me of course. I don't mind, and am used to worse on squad night. But even scumbags know mothers and wives are off limits when talking toejam.
Please remove the picture of Lenny, it's not yours to distribute. Lets not start a pissin match. It's giving Badger a headache, and I have no life meaning lotsa extra pissin time.
OH, and download Crimson Skies if you want to see how well a Pacific Theater can be done. Well worth it.
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 09-26-2000).]
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If it bothers you, move on. Like cursing it's just a string of words put together to form a sentence from the mind of an ignorant reject. There's no need to police the comms. The focus of this game is air combat not to focus on the ignorance, stupidity, or just plain foolishness of the mulitude of degenerates playing Aces High.
Words are words, it's actions that piss me off.
-SW
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Agreed Creamo, but again, no dis to wife, the dis was to you, read the post again...who's Lenny? Thought that was you?
Cya at con, ya fat drunk bastige... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Rooster:
... Could you please elucidate on what your personal code of ethics would allow people to discuss on open comm? Then if everyone else would please respond with their personal prejudices we could then have a big kill filter to save everyone from being offended in any way what so ever. Or better yet get rid of the text chat and just have a drop down box, with "nice bounce", "hello everyone" etc.... no "good kill" tho. That could be seen to promote killing and offend those who have been victims of a violent crime.
I could easily program one of my controllers to produce the following combination:
"/XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX<Enter>
<Shift>/XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX<Enter>
<Ctl>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX<Enter>"
Then I could make a simple device that would press that button twice a second, so all you see in the ch1 buffer and country buffer is XXXXXXX...
Since I have a DSL line, I could just leave it on 24 hours 7 days a week for my $30 flat rate fee.
Would you, Rooster, argue that nobody should interfere and stop me?
You probably would, but HTC would say "you hurt our revenue - you are out of here!" They are not here to protect my constitutional right to annoy other people. They are here to make money while doing things they love. Irritating their customers is not conductive to either of their goals.
Their (HTC) solutions to problms are usually a bit late but very smart and well-founded. There is probably a reason why people with stupid ideas do not have their own companies...
miko
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Originally posted by Rooster:
Fradim, I understand that you were upset by the public chat that you saw. Could you please elucidate on what your personal code of ethics would allow people to discuss on open comm? Then if everyone else would please respond with their personal prejudices we could then have a big kill filter to save everyone from being offended in any way what so ever.
Rooster,
Looks like you are the one who doesn't understand that people can share a mean of comunication without ofending other people. Unfortunately, my own experience in the Internet in general (more than 7 years) and with online sims in particular (almost 3 years) has showed me this is possible. I know, at least virtually, players from Canada, USA, China, South America and Europe who are a living prove that notions like decency, ethics and respect are not particular and relative to some cultures but indeed they belong to human kind.
That's why I don't believe we need any kind of filter besides our own good sense and, most of all, a sense of human dignity. But if you cannot understand this, all I can say is that I am really sorry.
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Originally posted by Creamo:
OH, and download Crimson Skies if you want to see how well a Pacific Theater can be done. Well worth it.
Hey creamo....<S>
I did download the demo and had a ball with it. It's certainly not a realistic flight simulation, but it is a heck of a lot of fun as an escapist game for pure entertainment. I actually went out and bought the full version. The scenery and terrain are fabulous, especially trees that really look like trees.
If you ever want to bash away 1 on 1 sometime, let me know. I've had a hard time getting games in the Zone to stick after loading, perhaps it's the lag. The ones I've managed to get going have been a riot.
Regards,
Badger
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Originally posted by fradim:
I have witnessed this depressing conversation last sunday at night, in the
public channel of Main Arena. I have omitted names because if it were personal I would send this message to them:
1st pilot: women from south america
2nd pilot: lol
1st pilot: i actually think they are cheaper from the philipines though
2rd pilot: nah, eastern bloc countries are best
1st pilot: but they got snaggle teeth
3rd pilot: Philipines ... thats where ya wanna order a wife
4th pilot: 1st pilot your mistaken, they have no teeth
......
I really don't care what these people think. But I DO care when they express these unworthy ideas in a public channel, in such a shameless and unconcerned manner. This is certainly not something we might expect to see in a mutinational environment as the one we have in Aces High.
I have decided to avoid any kind of quarrel out of respect for the other players online and my squad mates. Besides, I believe this is the best forum in which we can discuss such issues, in a mature way.
I hope we all remember here that Aces High is not just a game/sim: it's a community, in which we interact with people from all over the world; people with their own ideas and biases but who share with us the same need of
respect and civility.
fradim
I'll be the First to admit, I don't hide my actions, BUT i must intervien here, I Am one of these People that said a few lines you have quoted AND what we see here are 2 different ( but close) intertwined conversations ( with 3 people) taken out of context. I've re-read what you wrote. I didn't curse, i didn't use any racial slurs. The conversation sarted out by me noting how the Olympic womens swim team looks like men. Now this is my observation that i STILL believe to be true. Now with that said, you may pick it apart, and THINK that i mean ALL Russian women look like men, but that is not what was said. I can even be quoted as saying NJ is the armpit of the USA. I was born in NJ and live in PA on the river side. I can take corrective critizism and most of all can laught at my self. Not to offend, but your confusing 2 interwined conservations, which none were ment to offend.
NUTTZ
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Originally posted by Andres:
Yo All!
Wrong is say things like: "Woman from south america are cheaper".
[]s to all!
Andre(S)
Andre, Your mixing words from 3 people in 2 different conversations. I was there! this is my problem, your mixing my quote, adding words, and applying it to another conversation.
NUTTZ
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Westy , you remember an individual posting in bigweek about how immoral it is joking about sheep shagging? Bigweek shut down over this.
I hope Ah doesn't turn this way.
NUTTZ
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Did someone say Anal Retentive?
Honestly some people around here have no sense of humour!
I'm a New Zealander and I don't take offence when people abuse Australians and call them things like sheep-shagging-inbreds, or natural blondes, or koala-hugging-vermin, or even scummy-descendents-of-convicts EVEN though they are our next door neighbours.
We need some major laxatives applied around this place :-)
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Vulcan,
My squad mates know me for more than 2 years. Never we have discussed even though MOL is a very "anarchic" squad and people there makes really often jokes about one another.
But I confess I do not have a good sense of humour on some issues. Thatīs why I am particularly careful when dealing with other people and other culture and I am sure nobody here or in WB has ever witnessed any unpleasant comments from me.
Nutz,
I admit that I may not be sure about one of these people who were chating. I donīt want to be unfair. Thatīs one of the reasons why I wouldntīt point to anyone in particular. Anyway, I am quite sure of the main topic and that except is very clear about this.
I have read your post in another thread in which you said about your anger with others opinion about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I DO underst and respect your feelings.
But remember other people have the same right to feel sensitive on some issues for their own reasons. Thatīs what itīs all about: I have simply saked people here to be more concerned about these diferences and try to respect other people.
fradim
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Hey, I bought all 3 of my wives (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And I'm still paying (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It was the installment plan.
Coker
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Yikes Nuttz! That guy was a full blown psycho nutcase that makes Avenger look like a Cub Scout and not very analogous to anything going on here to be honest. He was a pure disruptive sorry bellybutton soul. And I don't think HTC would stand for his antics one bit as "you know who" did.
But your message isn't lost. I personally don't want a Stepford Sim where everyone is so nice, neat and well behaved. I do however applaud HTC's use of the filter online and I only wanted to show support for a call for folks to show respect online for each other. I know I'm kind of pissing into the wind on the "respect online issue" but I can't go out with a whimper and just say the heck with it and not try to make a difference.
-Westy
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Originally posted by miko2d:
I could easily program one of my controllers to produce the following combination:
"/XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX<Enter>
<Shift>/XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX<Enter>
<Ctl>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX<Enter>"
Then I could make a simple device that would press that button twice a second, so all you see in the ch1 buffer and country buffer is XXXXXXX...
Since I have a DSL line, I could just leave it on 24 hours 7 days a week for my $30 flat rate fee.
Would you, Rooster, argue that nobody should interfere and stop me?
You probably would, but HTC would say "you hurt our revenue - you are out of here!" They are not here to protect my constitutional right to annoy other people. They are here to make money while doing things they love. Irritating their customers is not conductive to either of their goals.
Their (HTC) solutions to problms are usually a bit late but very smart and well-founded. There is probably a reason why people with stupid ideas do not have their own companies...
miko
Obviously the concept of hyperbole passed you by. I personally do not care for some of what passes as banter on ch.1 either. My point is dealing with a public situation means living with other peoples bad manners. Thankfully .squelch 1 is a sufficinient solution. BUT I will not stand for people to foist their personal codes sense and morality upon me. What is totaly offensive to one culture or person, is accepted and honored in another. Where do YOU draw the line? Thankyou for your assinine reply.
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Some of you guys have got real problems. Some of the posturing you guys perform, to try and turn this into an anti-censorship argument make me laugh.
I'm not going to speak for Fradim, he can speak for himself perfectly well, but I took his post to be a complaint about the tone of the discussion he witnessed. It was completely ignorant of whoever might have been listening. Fradim makes this point very well in my opinion.
Fradim was advocating for people to be a little more respectful of the multi-national aspect of AH. What in hell nis wrong with that?
at this pace someday there will be smoke detectors to prevent people smoking while playing AH
Don't be ridiculous, RAM. You blow a legitimate point out of all proportion.
Do so very few of you find the discussion in the least bit disturbing?
Regarding 'buying' women from abroad - do what you like, but I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I had to 'purchase' a wife. Hardly romantic, is it? And besides, most of the places people get these mail order wives from, are not exactly economically strong. If you know what I mean. Each to their own, I guess.
Fradim - BTW, it was you that I talked to when I first started the game wasn't it? I asked you about rudder pedals and you said you knew of a German company - you wouldn't happen to know its details would you? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Thx, mate.
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-27-2000).]
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Yea you must be rich... at 29.95 this game is a ripoff...
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I did not mean to offend you, Rooster, and I am definitely for the freedom of speech.
I am just thinking that being a private corporation HTC is not a place to fight for it.
Making a freedom of speech issue out of the decision of a private corporation is disservice to both the real FoS and PC issues and HTC. You have many valid point (actually all of them are valid). Do not profane them by dragging them where they do not belong.
HTC makes the decision on what is appropriate and we can vote with our $30/month. I don't agree with many opinions (like the word "Jap" is just a short form of "Japanese" and does not have any derogatory connotation in English, why would some foreign speakers object to it's use?). At the same time I am willing to favor their requests - if not out of politeness, then out of common sence. I would rather play in the arena full of people and HTC awash in money, then in an arena with five guys talking trash and Hitech's children starving (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I do my talking - offencive and otherwise, here or in the other places. I prefer that any public AH chanel were kept clear for AH-related communications, not frivolous two-sided conversations. Whatever is typed into channel one is directed towards everybody including myself. Even the free speech does not give you any right to force your speech on the people who are not willing to listen. As you can see, I participate in this discussion of yours here of my own free will.
But if you say something unrelated to AH on channel 1 forcing me to forgo it's use, I consider it violation of my privacy, same as if you barge into my appartment uninvited.
Regards,
miko
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"Shit. I've had enough of PC'ness. Be PC yourself, but don't force it on me. I'll make crude insensitive jokes and be an overall amazinhunk now and then. For the fun of it.
I'll go kill some whales, eat Flipper and shoot Bambi. Take the car around to the shop, and let the engine run while I'm inside. I'll refer to japanese as Japs, and eat red meat in front of vegans. I'll vote yes for nuclear power, and no to more taxes on gas. I'll crack jokes about gays and blondes. Will continue to buy beer instead of sending money to starving Africans. Also openly support legalisation of drugs comparable to alcohol, and publicly denounce any politician of my choice. I'll berate writers I don't like. And I will call an idiot an idiot, not a "mentally deprived person"."
--StStanta
I think he has the right idea. That post is identical to how I feel--great post StSanta (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I think P.C. is for whiny little kids who want everything to be "their way" A person with a fully developed level of maturity would simply use one of the two options he really has-- 1. Leave or 2. Talk to whomever offended him.
I am guessing about 95% of all problems that lead to calls for P.C. stem from misunderstandings.
Those people joking about where to buy a wife is FUNNY, just like vulching in the arena and chute shooting is FUNNY. This isn't real life people--it's a game.
Don't be so uptight about it!
Not everyone thinks identically. P.C. tries to turn us into unthinking "robots" who all follow the same "standards".
Not me.
J_A_B
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Ya we are really ripp'n off HTC heheh just don't tell them?????WB CC days eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeccckkkkk.... ..........!
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J_A_B,
Consider my purely practical point. I want to attract some new players and I know that they would prefer not to see some of the speech that is acceptable for you.
Even when giving a demo to my friends, I can only .squelch someone after we see the crap from that player in the buffer.
And the option to leave is not really an option for HTC/players because it leaves one pilot fewer in the arena and $360/year less for HTC.
Why should HTC and I personally suffer for your "free speech" by losing players?
What about children? You want to say whatever you want but HTC wants their money too and many parents would not allow their children to play if they see certain things in the buffer.
It may not be fair, but that is a fact of life. Those people may be wrong.
I do not care - as long as they man the arena and bring money to HTC, I want them in, not out.
A "whiny little kid" and you are equally valuable - exactly $30/mo. Now, if he can bring five of his friends and you can drive a single customer out - there is no question who should be given a swift kick...
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 09-27-2000).]
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JAB - I agree with one thing you say, people who have to buy a wife, because they are so socially inept that they can't pull a bird (no matter how minging, and there are alot of women who fit into that category), ARE funny.
And it ain't in the 'ha ha ha' variety...
Objecting to what those guys were talking about is not political correctness, its just showing respect for people of different nationalities. It also shows awareness of the fact that some things might be taken in a different way by other cultures.
From what you say, racism is acceptable, since people who object to it 'political correctionists'. Bet you got some good jokes of that ilk, eh? If you are not a racist, then where do you draw the line, my friend?
StSanta - some things can never be defended, and one of them is racial slurs.
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Dowding
99th 'Raging Rooks'
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All I *ask* you is to be polite and try
not to use public channel to express ideas that might be ofensive to someone.It's not so difficult.
BTW, this has nothing to do with PC but respect. Anyway, if you don't understand this, you may simply consider this as an idea to help us maintain a public channel
in which we can have fun without offending each other. After all, we shall not forget that there's always SOMETHING that may offend SOMEONE.
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Dowding,
Of course I remember. thx for your kind words. That rudder is simped vario and you can find it here: http://www.simmarket.com/hardware/simped/ (http://www.simmarket.com/hardware/simped/)
I know some others but I haven't found your email. If you need more information, feel free to contact me:-)
[]
fradim
fradim@mail.com
[This message has been edited by fradim (edited 09-27-2000).]
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Perhaps joking about it is bad, but I don't see anything wrong with mail order brides. Why should 2 people be alone just because they're seperated by a half a world?
Udie
As for "buying" russian wives by US citizens, Naso, have you tried living in Russia? Do you think they have any dignity left to sell?
In fact, such a women automatically becomes an american citizen and has more rights, liberties and dignity then most europeans will ever know.
As if arranged marriage is a thing of the past where you live...
Miko2d
Well, you think is possible to buy husband too?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Maybe i can still hope?
Yankee, Ronni, buy me, please. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)