Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: brady on November 11, 2003, 03:01:46 PM
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Only 40 Shoping days left till Christmass!
This Friday I am going to rerun an old set up of mine from last summer using ASW's updated Libbya map, it is a suto 41 plane set featuring the C.202 and the P40E primarly with the following plane set to add some depth, while not compleatly accurate historicaly it does help to give a feal for the time and place and the match up's are good fun
Axis:
C.202
Me 109E-4
Me 110C-4
JU-88
JU-87
C47
The M's
Panzer IV
Allies:
P40E
Huricane MK I
Boston
C47
The M's
Panzer IV
I highly recomend the Following series BTW to anyone interested in Italian Planes:
(http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/103224/0.jpg)
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Brady,
I have a simple request... If it is at all possible... from one of the Fleets can we have the P-40E enabled from it... it has an historical reference to our squad... if you can't do it I will understand...
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I thought those p40's were ferryed over on a carrier and only took off the carrier to a land base.
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No CV! :)
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No CV's in this set up. Sry. P40's arent CV planes anyway.
GV set remains the same, it simply playes better this way.
109F4 would runin the balance of the set up and defeat the main pourpos of it which is to highlight the 202,P40E match up.
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If the Tempest had been created at that time, it would have been in theatre. Thus it should be enabled.
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Originally posted by keyapaha
I thought those p40's were ferryed over on a carrier and only took off the carrier to a land base.
Your right Keyapaha, one of the guys that flies in the 325th has footage of the 317th taking off from the aircraft carrier. I just thought it would be cool since this is a mto set up if we could launch them from it.
Brady I know the P-40E is not a CV airplane... and didn't want to use the cv for more than a take off platfrom. Heck you could have move it 1000 miles out of the way of anyone. Thanks for considering it... I didn't think you could do it...
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Storch,
Honestly it's no big deal.. like I said before... it's cool if he can't do it... Thanks for the input though
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No CV, no 109F, no hurri 2c.
This will be a cool setup, quite different. :)
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Storch:
This set up as stated above is intended to feature the 202, and P40E in a set up that is intened to highlight them, nobody realy moaned to much at least not that I recall the last 3 times I ran this set up, and I did fly the piss out of it on at least two of those ocashions. If I aded the 109F and the Huricane IIC it would ruin the intent of the set up as I mentioned above.
Adding any NON CV plane to a CV is freaking lame imo and I will never do so in any set up I am responsable for. CV did not play any signastudmuffinant part in the fighting in Libbya and their is no reasionable reasion for adding them. Particulary since this again is intened to feature the 202, and the P40E.
Just because I dont want to pork my set and it's intent does not mean I am unreasionable.
I hope to have my ***** unpacked and set up so I can fly at least by sometime on the weakend. Why do you miss me:)
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Adding any NON CV plane to a CV is freaking lame imo
Stream, he says that it is lame, not that he can not do it!!
Brady why cant you enable the CV on streams squad night, let them depart then disable it?
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Honestly man... it's not that big of a deal... for some reason he thinks that we are going to use the CV as a combat roll... I had no intentions on using the ack or the guns on it.. just the carrier to launch planes from.. I take offense that you call me lame brady because I asked for that.. it was a simple question all I was looking for was yes or no... Plus it would have been the P-40E launching from it not another type... But it doesn't really matter now.. it's fine I thought I would try something different. No biggy.
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I dident call you lame, I said imo using a non CV plane from a CV is lame ( from a historical/imershion prespective) in a set up.
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Need I say anything?
Vote Bug
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Honestly my request was nothing more than to do something different... It would have been cool to launch the P-40E off of them... I am going to bow out of this because this is becoming more than it should have... Brady I do like this set up, probably one of my favorites, would like to have something like this set up on the tunisa set up too... early 43 would be cool...
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Stream.
From what I can tell the 325th launched 72 P-40F Warhwaks from the USS Ranger on 19 January 1943 to Cazes airfield near Casablanca. Where they stayed until 23 January When they were sent to Mediouna, on the 24th of january they flew escort for President Roosevelts party. There first in theater mission. I guess it wasnt a pajama party.;)
My reference is a squadron/ signal publications book , titled "Checkertails" by Ernest R McDowell.
My wife Linda is about to have a garage sell , and I am going to get rid of some aviation books to make room for more aviation books. This book was on the garage sell list. If you don't have the book and would like to,,, e-mail me your physical address.
My e-mail address is Jvan325@hotmail.com It's a must book for you checkertail guys.
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Originally posted by brady
I dident call you lame, I said imo using a non CV plane from a CV is lame ( from a historical/imershion prespective) in a set up.
sorta like using ww2 skinned planes in a war that occurred 20 years later? or using a late war ija bomber in 1941/2?
or perhaps like using american skinned b17's as ju188's?
plenty examples of sanctioned "lameness" abound.
:aok
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Originally posted by Löwe
Stream.
From what I can tell the 325th launched 72 P-40F Warhwaks from the USS Ranger on 19 January 1943 to Cazes airfield near Casablanca. Where they stayed until 23 January When they were sent to Mediouna, on the 24th of january they flew escort for President Roosevelts party. There first in theater mission. I guess it wasnt a pajama party.;)
cc Lowe,
My XO has actual WW2 footage of the 317th launching from the Uss Ranger. It was pre checkerboard on the the tail and they had the American flag painted just forward of the tail so that the British didn't shoot them down. I guess in the confusion of a fight the P-40 looked like a C.202? I can send you the link sometime if I can get him to put it back up. It just being a MTO I thought I would be cool, that's all no historical reference right now. I know that they never really launched for a mission off a flattop, but in here not much call for ferrying planes to the fields in the CT. I would love to see an early North African or Southern Italy map run... but I am not going to rock the boat to much, so to say.
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Its a cool set up Brady looking forward to it.
Anyone ever think of using the lvts ground based for one country and the m3 - m8 for the other country for flavour?
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the confusion of a fight the P-40 looked like a C.202?
Maybe looked more like a 109. I may have read that some where.
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Good Setup!!
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The LVT's have a know bug when it comes to their 75mm Main gun's they are usless aganst other GV's for the most part, also with the totaly unrealistic nature of the Air to Ground exchange in AH it is generaly better for game play if we simply use the Panzer to represent armor on both sides.
BTW this is suposed to be in Libbya in late 41 early 42, so this is an early set up using the Libbya map, not NUTTZ's Tunisia map. Thier are no US Air Assests represented in it.
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Brady, I believe that the only ppl flying the P40 will be the 325th.. maybe
I love the P40. :) I have little hope against the 202 and 109, but will have fun trying. :)
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Gonna go out and polish up the P-40 :)
Cheers,
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Originally posted by brady
The LVT's have a know bug when it comes to their 75mm Main gun's they are usless aganst other GV's for the most part ...
Heh .... is it a bug or is it the fact that they only have HE rounds for the LVT? :D
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ho hum... yawn..........
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The Bug is their HE shels dont detonate like they should on impact and they just bounce off, they should detonate on impact, HTC is aware of this howeaver. Hopefully one day we wil see a HEAT shell made for it by HTC.
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HE shells not detonating? I don't see why the HE shell should work any differently for the LVT than for any other GV. But you say it's a bug and HTC is aware of it and working on the problem. *ShruG*
Or are you claiming that HE shells aren't modeled correctly period and should be more effective versus tracks/wheels/light armor and such? (Not that LVTs equipped with only HE shells versus M8s equipped with AP shells would stand much of a chance anyhow.)
Still, in the end ... I can see it making more sense to enable M8s and M3s for both sides (more so than amphibs for both sides). At least until some allied heavies and axis lights are modeled to give more leeway ... either way.
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Beautiful map and good setup! I love all the CT Setups! And I have nothing against the CT Hosts, I love them all, too! And most of all I love you, Brady! :D
Ahumm... I mean I love your hosting...:aok
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Have seen the LVT HE shells bug during one of the Burma set-ups when we had them for tanks.
I was on the backside of one of the towns and snuck up on a LVT-4 engaged with another and commenced to fire at his side from short range (200 yards). I must have got 10 solid hits and that many more ricochets with out even scaring his paint! I finally gave up and killed him with a long burst from the .50 cal. machine gun on my LVT.
The armor on the LVT series would barely turn a rifle caliber bullet. No way one should be able to shrug off 5+ 75mm HE shells.
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Still waiting the map chancing... our Squad evening starts after 40 minutes... Brady: Switch the map soon, please!:)
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Originally posted by brady
Only 40 Shoping days left till Christmass!
Finally I'm back in town, and look at the great setup waiting for me. Thanks, Brady.
- oldman
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Okay...someone better take the booze and lock it back up, Kantorri's getting all mushy.
Like the setup though:aok
RTR
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I liked the fights I got into last night and think this is a fun evenly matched set up--good job
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You mean the Wildcat?, if so ,No I will not, as I mentioned above this is a suto 41/early 42 set up and their were no Wildcats their then. Also as I mentioned before it is Inthended to Highlight the P40E and the 202, that means it is an intenionaly restricted plane set.
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O...so many F-4's in the game dident know what you ment:)
No I will not, for the reasions I stated above it would give the Axis a tremendious advantage and defeat the basic principle of the set up, which is to highlight the 202/P40E.
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I can understad your desire to highlight the P40 and 202,
BUT! have you been in the arena this weekend? DUH yes you have I have seen you there....
All I see is HURRICANES and 1 or 2 P-40s
Just an observation
KCDitto
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The 202 and the P40E anr the primary preformes for their respective sides, if folks would rather fly the Slowe Huricane then so be it, it's their choice, my observations the 5 other times I have flow this plane set were folks switched back and forth between their mounts, and so what if they do? That in and of it's self is no reasion to give the Germans a clearly supoiur plane.
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Originally posted by storch
OK Brady whatever but it's almost a Hurri fest at this time.
Hurricanes don't accelerate well, can't do negative g maneuvers without losing power and have anemic fire power. They turn well at low speeds but that's about it. The Axis iron in this setup all out run it, out dive it, out zoom it and out accelerate it. Two out of the three axis rides out gun it. People playing the LW side should be encouraging the Allied players to fly more hurricanes :D .
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I have been enjoying the hurri. Enjoying the set-up also Brady.
Thanks
Robert
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HAHAHAHAHALOLOLOLOLOLOLOROFLH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
:rofl :D :aok
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202 owns this setup, always has. Amazing plane. I love the p40, but no point in flying it when 1 202 with alt means you are dead, or 1 low 202 means you will be dead a little later.
Hurricane is the only chance you have, at least you can turn with them then.
me? I will say in the leather pants during this setup.
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For a N. African setup, its a fair setup. I dont subscribe to the 100 percent balanced thing to begin with but I have a few comments.
The MC202 is far and away the better fighter to the P-40E, you dont need to "explode" the P-40 with 4 x 20mm cannon to shoot it down. All that LA-7, Fw190 MA flying leaves people thinking you have to have batteries of cannon or the armament sucks. Not true. A P-40E is not a B-26 or an A-20. You dont need that kind of firepower to down it.
As for the 109F, yes it was there, but so was the slower MC200 and the Fiat G50. To just give the axis the 109F and MC202 (the very best they had) and not have any representation of the relative #s of those planes will lead to a setup that is too far out of balance to be playable.
Same reason the CT setups featuring "Normandy" usually dont have the Tempest (that I have seen)...even though it served in the campaign.
I like flying the P-40E, its not uber, but its a close enough match if you fight with a friendly near you.
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Plane comparison of current setup
1) P40E - reasonably fast once it has accelerated to top speed which takes forever. Best gun package available. Loses E far to quickly and can't get it back. Turns very well for 2 or 3 merges then it is out of E and dead.
2) Hurricane - Slow slow slow... 8 x .303s actually isn't such a bad set of guns. No negative Gs can really screw things up. Turns VERY well.
3) 109E4 - Slightly faster than the P40E at some alts. The guns are weak. Don't fire until your at point blank range. Turns adequately.
4) 202 - Accelerates reasonably well. Fastest of all the planes. Only 1 with any chance of catching a Boston. Weakest set of firepower available. Turns well while fast.
Which one is the winner? C.202 by a clear margin. The weak guns are more than made up for in its ability to stay out of NME gun solutions.
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") 109E4 - Slightly faster than the P40E at some alts. The guns are weak. Don't fire until your at point blank range. Turns adequately. "
Above 15K the 109E4 is slighlty faster, below that Alt the P40E is Faster all the way down to the deck.
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Originally posted by storch
The P40 is meat on the table to be sure, provided you can stay on target LONG ENOUGH to deliver enough ammo.
The P-40E is a very good plane if you fly it on it strength's. In fact I would say it's the "Poor Man's P-51." It has a good punch with the 6x .50 cal's and it will turn much better than most people think. If you fly it "dweebily" you are going to get your keaster handed to you every time. In the hands of a smart pilot though the Warhawk is a deadly machine.
In that fight Sunday Morning Storch with you and Norad flying 109's and 202's I landed 9 kills to 0 losses in the P-40 and I only had alt advantage one time.
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Originally posted by Jester
The P-40E is a very good plane if you fly it on it strength's. In fact I would say it's the "Poor Man's P-51." It has a good punch with the 6x .50 cal's and it will turn much better than most people think. If you fly it "dweebily" you are going to get your keaster handed to you every time. In the hands of a smart pilot though the Warhawk is a deadly machine.
An excellent pilot in a P40 against an average pilot in a 202 is going to die. Unless he has like a 3K alt advantage to start.
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Originally posted by scJazz
An excellent pilot in a P40 against an average pilot in a 202 is going to die. Unless he has like a 3K alt advantage to start.
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Originally posted by scJazz An excellent pilot in a P40 against an average pilot in a 202 is going to die. Unless he has like a 3K alt advantage to start.
Originally posted by Shane
Isn't this the place for a duel:
Arenas and Hosting: online Dueling Arena.
Plane Selection:
Challenger: Shane: P40
Defender scJazz:C.202.
Identical fuel.
Altitude: A max altitude must be agreed upon. This max altitude is strictly a pre-engagement restriction. This means that you are not permitted to go above this altitude until your opponents icon is visible. This is in place to keep each others energy state as equal as possible at the start of the fight.
Initial Merge: Once within icon range, the fight is considered ON and anything goes at this point with the following exceptions:
Guns may not be fired until after the first merge.
Running: Running for an extended period of time to avoid an opponent is considered a forfeit for that particular duel. If you have to ask, "Is this considered running?", then YES you are running and need to turn around and get back in the fight.
Winning a Flight: There must be a "clear winner" for each flight. Basically ... You must survive to be considered the WINNER. The following defines a winner:
pilot has received the kill message "SYSTEM: You shot down XX"
pilot is still in complete control of the aircraft
pilot has the ability to ditch his aircraft
Victory Conditions: Best 3 out of 5 flights wins the challenge. You do not have to fly all 5 flights, the first to win 3 is the overall winner.
Results and comments in CT forum.
[Addition]:
Dueling time: High Noon in Rio Bravo
Backround music: Ennio Morricone ("The Good the Bad and the Ugly")
:p
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Originally posted by TimRas
Running: Running for an extended period of time to avoid an opponent is considered a forfeit for that particular duel. If you have to ask, "Is this considered running?", then YES you are running and need to turn around and get back in the fight.
:aok
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Wow you two must be bored or something. Not only that but you must assume that a long descriptive post like...
Is going to make me lose control of my senses. Raise me to new heights of rage.
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just laughing at your cluelessness-based assertion.
:aok
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Yes your right... you and Brady are the only people with clues. Everyone else must be wrong.
What sad little men.
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*sniff sniff*
Is that an "air of superiority" mixed with the redundant aromatic aroma of egotistical arrogance? Oh yes .... Shaneman (http://people.colgate.edu/doslander/rainman/rm85.wav) has entered the thread riding on a snicker and tossing around the term "clueless." He's a good stick that Shaneman (http://people.colgate.edu/doslander/rainman/rm85.wav) but he's a tad bit outa touch with reality. :D
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Originally posted by scJazz
Wow you two must be bored or something. Not only that but you must assume that a long descriptive post like...
Is going to make me lose control of my senses. Raise me to new heights of rage.
Jazz,
Whether the postings are long or small, the issue cannot really be settled here. Actually I agree with you, the C202 have an edge over the P-40E in dogfight. But if you make such a sweeping statement like: "An excellent pilot in a P40 against an average pilot in a 202 is going to die", I guess that you are willing to back up your opinion in a duel. Flaming in this forum is useless. My suggestion for you and Shane to duel was serious. Then maybe either of you can change his opinion.
Done with the topic.
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ROTFLMAO @ Arlo! :rofl
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Actually I'm amazed how competative the setup can be. The 202 is clearly the dominant plane in the set...BUT...it's lack of hitting power does make it tough to finish off a foe. I flew the 1st day or so Axis but numbers have kept me on allied side since then. I've had fun flying both the hurricane and P40....mostly down on the deck...had a bunch of low furballs vs 202's and won at least a few of em. P40 can hold its own with a 202...or two without much problem...if the 202 decides to get in and furball. Obviously if the 202 uses its superior performance to snipe then the p40 has little chance...but the 202 has a tough time actually getting a kill also.
azhacker