Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: muckmaw on November 13, 2003, 11:35:11 AM
-
Countries who pledged troops to support the reconstruction of Iraq are now rethinking or retracting their decision after the truck bombing at the Italian compound.
What kind of message is the world sending to rogue states and terrorist supporting nations?
Give a country a bloody nose and no matter how strong it is, they will pull out?
That's what SH is counting on for the US. He's hoping popular support for this war will degrade to levels seen during Vietnam, allowing him to regain power.
I'm sure I'm stating the obvious for many on this board. I just thought it needed to be said, anyway.
We're sending the wrong message in my humble opinion.
http://www.yahoo.com/s/129685
-
Well, considering it was the Italians who let Abu Abbas walk after the Achille Lauro incident.... no great loss if they leave.
-
Its more than the Italians..
Sorry, forgot the link...
http://www.yahoo.com/s/129685
-
The liberals are loving it! Anything that makes the economy look bad, or Bush look bad in Iraq is good in their opinion. Translated: Soldiers dying is a good thing in a liberals mind.
-
Oh well, when the going gets tough.....
-
So you applaud the guy when he pisses on everyone with differing opnion - and be assured every nation on this planet disagreed with Iraq sitation in terms of popular opnion.
Blair put his bellybutton on the line, and so did the other politicians in the "coalition of the willing".
Then, you cry because nobody wants to help you ?
If you thought it was a right idea to "go it alone", then that's just what we will have, we will "go it alone".
On the same subject, if you wanted a international cooalition to help rebuilding iraq, the job should have been turned over to US at cessation of hostilities. It would have been a great consolation gesture and would ensure more money and troops from all over the world.
But two things stood in the way of that : pride and money for Haliburton...
-
No one is complaing here, Ski. The coalition of the willing gets smaller every day.
Actually, I was pointing out how the will of a nation can be bent by a single, yet tragic incident.
Is it a poilitcal survival instinct to pull the chicken switch the minute a soldier gets killed?
Do the people of these countries, including some in the US expect warfare to be bloodless? It would be wonderful, but we all know this is not the case.
-
and money for Haliburton...
====
you one of the people that think the iraq war was for the purpose of getting billions of dollars of reconstruction money to a private firm who just so happens to be run by proxy by the vice president?
Some thiunk it was so the bush family could get its hands on iraqi oil.
-
I find it only logical. Most of the people in countries such as Spain or Italy were completely against sending troops in the first place. So if troops from those countries start dying, it's not going to be good publicity for the government.
Daniel
-
muckmaw: That's what SH is counting on for the US. He's hoping popular support for this war will degrade to levels seen during Vietnam, allowing him to regain power.
Fortunately we have a great propaganda going here under direction of our magnificent leader..
Didn't Bush say it was actually a sign of progress - the more foreigners they kill, ... er... the less there will be left to kill? Or something.
Actually, I was pointing out how the will of a nation can be bent by a single, yet tragic incident.
Seriously, italians were against sending their troops from the very beginning. It was very stupid on the part of our government to get them - and many others - involved.
Overestimating the abilities of allies is as bad as underestimating the abilities of the enemy.
miko
-
Some of these terrorist cells actually have a brain. Italy should send more soldiers of course. I think anything less would be a mistake.
-
muckmaw. you are assuming that will existed to begin with.
While i can't talk for all those nations, i can tell that in case of Poland, which has a bunch of people there on the ground, that people where overwhelmingly against sending our troops to Iraq. Government made a choice for whatever reason and people are stuck with it. So dead soldier ( and there was a Pole killed about a week ago ) doesn't weaver conviction, because there was no conviction to begin with. It gives the ammunition to the people who state that government did it for political reasons - and we all know that it did.
Government stated that all people who went to Iraq we volunteers. It now is starting to come out in polish press that it wasn't always a case. Lot of those people were coherced into going by threats of ending careers and such. And in the country with 20% unemployement, it is a serious threat.
-
Ski-
The will I spoke of was the will of the government...yours, mine, anyones.
It seems once a body bag is filled, the government that was so gung ho to either:
A)Free a Nation
B)find WMDs
C)Fight Terror
or
D) Make nice with the USA
suddenly wants to pull up stakes and head home.
Thats the message the world is sending, and it shows we lack conviction.
-
Alternatively, the government in question may stick to the convictions and lose the next elections in favor of much more anti-american one.
The Al-Qaeda could not hope for a better outcome.
miko
-
I dont mean to sound like I am suggesting some sort of escelation of the war in terms getting more Italian military support. I'm not really even talking about that. Just from a tactical point of view, this event shows that what could happen has happened to the Italian forces already stationed there in Iraq. At the very least, if Italy will stay and support the US and its allies, I'm just suggesting that they need more security forces for themselves to ensure better security towards their own objectives. Of course until the overall plan of changing over to Iraqi security forces.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
The liberals are loving it! Anything that makes the economy look bad, or Bush look bad in Iraq is good in their opinion. Translated: Soldiers dying is a good thing in a liberals mind.
Damn ripsnort!! That is pretty damn callus. To believe your mind could conjure up something so absurd is almost unthinkable. Almost.......
It seems politics with you is a light switch....
k
AoM
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Soldiers dying is a good thing in a liberals mind.
Thats pretty sick.
Of course you'll probably just claim to be fishing or some lame excuse like that.
-
We have in it alone since day one.
-
MrBlack... your name must explain the darkness where your head is stuck...
_ Nov. 6: Polish major shot in ambush north of Karbala.
_ Sept. 30: Ukrainian commander dies after vehicle overturns while patrolling near Kut air base in southern Iraq.
_ Aug. 19: Spanish navy captain killed in truck bombing of United Nations headquarters in Baghdad.
_ Aug. 16: Danish soldier killed by friendly fire after his unit stopped a truck while patrolling near Basra in southern Iraq
-
That pails in comparison to the AMERICAN lives lost on 9/11
and all the AMERICAN GIs in Iraq.
Hell Bush had to begg for help from other countries exept the Britts.
So go blow you'r liberal horn somewhere else.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
The liberals are loving it! Anything that makes the economy look bad, or Bush look bad in Iraq is good in their opinion. Translated: Soldiers dying is a good thing in a liberals mind.
Routine gets boring, without ever reading the thread just posting a rant about the liberals, or is it copy-paste?
A more truthful statement would be: "Rip is loving it! Anything that makes the liberals look bad, or Clinton look bad anywhere is good in his opinion".
-
Originally posted by Thud
Routine gets boring, without ever reading the thread just posting a rant about the liberals, or is it copy-paste?
A more truthful statement would be: "Rip is loving it! Anything that makes the liberals look bad, or Clinton look bad anywhere is good in his opinion".
Clinton don't need any help looking bad:aok
-
Originally posted by miko2d
Alternatively, the government in question may stick to the convictions and lose the next elections in favor of much more anti-american one.
miko
Or a more American one.
-
Muckmaw,
I'm sure they've been so-so about it already before this attack and it was just the one which made up their minds.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Translated: Soldiers dying is a good thing in a liberals mind.
< F >
-
the majority of italians want nothing to do with iraq. Its a democracy not a fascist country anymore. If they want to pull out, they will pull out.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
The liberals are loving it! Anything that makes the economy look bad, or Bush look bad in Iraq is good in their opinion. Translated: Soldiers dying is a good thing in a liberals mind.
Chumtard alert.:aok :D
-
Sixpence: Or a more American one.
:) There is such a thing as reality, Sixpence.
miko
-
I think we should be happy with whatever help we get. Afterall, we went in without the majority of the world's support. This isn't their fight, they can do as they wish. If Italy invaded a country, I would be against deploying our soldiers there to help clean up the mess.
Just my 2 cents.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
The liberals are loving it! Anything that makes the economy look bad, or Bush look bad in Iraq is good in their opinion. Translated: Soldiers dying is a good thing in a liberals mind.
EDIT... ooops... I forgot... I don't do personal attacks... move along.
-
The energy and compassion with with liberals attack each and every tidbit of information that could further their cause would lead one to assume they dance with glee each time the opportunity arises. I don't knock Rips statement.
I wouldn't say all liberals enjoy seeing soldiers die in Iraq... but then actions speak louder than words don't they? You reap what you sow.
-
Originally posted by Tumor
I wouldn't say all liberals enjoy seeing soldiers die in Iraq...
Name one that does.
-
Originally posted by Ripsnort
The liberals are loving it! Anything that makes the economy look bad, or Bush look bad in Iraq is good in their opinion. Translated: Soldiers dying is a good thing in a liberals mind.
Ripsnort,
Amazingly new low even for you. Too bad you don't even realize it.
-
Originally posted by mrblack
That pails in comparison to the AMERICAN lives lost on 9/11
and all the AMERICAN GIs in Iraq.
Hell Bush had to begg for help from other countries exept the Britts.
So go blow you'r liberal horn somewhere else.
lol, your an idiot
Even after the govt. promised to pull all our troops out after the end, we're still there....but I doubt you'd be satisfied until our diggers are also being killed everyday, with gratitude like that do you wonder why no-one really wants in?
RAAF to remain in Iraq (http://au.news.yahoo.com/031114/21/minc.html)
Friday November 14, 03:23 PM
RAAF personnel to remain in Iraq
The Federal Government has extended its deployment of about 160 troops in Iraq for a further six months.
The RAAF Orion detachment was due to return to Australia in January.
But the Defence Minister Robert Hill says its role has been invaluable to the US-led military coalition in the country, and it will now remain in Iraq until the middle of next year.
Opposition Defence spokesman Senator Chris Evans says it is a sign Australia is becoming bogged down in a long and costly battle in Iraq.
"This decision will add to the $280 million bill this year for our deployment inside Iraq," he said.
"Of course Australian forces are at great risk given the heightened security problems there."
About 850 Australian troops are still deployed in Iraq.
Tronsky
-
Originally posted by -tronski-
lol, your an idiot
Even after the govt. promised to pull all our troops out after the end, we're still there....but I doubt you'd be satisfied until our diggers are also being killed everyday, with gratitude like that do you wonder why no-one really wants in?
RAAF to remain in Iraq (http://au.news.yahoo.com/031114/21/minc.html)
Friday November 14, 03:23 PM
RAAF personnel to remain in Iraq
The Federal Government has extended its deployment of about 160 troops in Iraq for a further six months.
The RAAF Orion detachment was due to return to Australia in January.
But the Defence Minister Robert Hill says its role has been invaluable to the US-led military coalition in the country, and it will now remain in Iraq until the middle of next year.
Opposition Defence spokesman Senator Chris Evans says it is a sign Australia is becoming bogged down in a long and costly battle in Iraq.
"This decision will add to the $280 million bill this year for our deployment inside Iraq," he said.
"Of course Australian forces are at great risk given the heightened security problems there."
About 850 Australian troops are still deployed in Iraq.
Tronsky
LOL WOW a whole 850 troops !!!
gald you could spare them :aok
What a MORON
-
Originally posted by mrblack
LOL WOW a whole 850 troops !!!
gald you could spare them :aok
What a MORON
Austrailia has what about 1/15th the population of the USA?
15 x 850 = an equivalent national deployment of 12,750
Thanks Austrailia, here's one American who appreciates the help. (if 850 is right , I'm taking the word of someone (anyone) on this BBS)
Originally posted by tronski Even after the govt. promised to pull all our troops out after the end, we're still there....[/B]
We haven't reached the end tronski, GWB announced the end of major military action, not the end of the war. All that meant is an end to strategic bombing and 500 strong tank maneuvers. A lot of work yet to do.
-
If it had been anybody but Ripsnort, I might have responded with an ascerbic remark.
Oh and Mr. Black - FU. Scores of British troops have already died in this enterprise and I would be surprised if the body count does not increase further. Typical Yank-o-Centric remark.
-
Originally posted by Dowding
If it had been anybody but Ripsnort, I might have responded with an ascerbic remark.
Oh and Mr. Black - FU. Scores of British troops have already died in this enterprise and I would be surprised if the body count does not increase further. Typical Yank-o-Centric remark.
Actually, I believe the truth is that the typical "yank-O-centric" sentiment in this regard is a sense of gratitude for the willingness of allies like the UK to share the burdens of a war we all should have been willing to engage in much sooner than we did.
culero (reporting from THIS side of the pond)
-
Yank-o-Centric = US is centre of universe around which everything else revolves
This IS the sentiment Mr. Black has expressed. Just because you may not share it does not alter that fact.
-
Ripsnort you have become a total caricature of yourself.
-
Originally posted by Dowding
Yank-o-Centric = US is centre of universe around which everything else revolves
This IS the sentiment Mr. Black has expressed. Just because you may not share it does not alter that fact.
I realize what you mean here, but you miss my point. It was more the descriptive "typical" that I was referring to. The quotation marks I used in the prior post were meant to accent what I meant.
culero (its not just me)
-
"Well, considering it was the Italians who let Abu Abbas walk after the Achille Lauro incident.... no great loss if they leave."
I take it you've never heard of Orlando Bosch?
-
OK. Let me put it in terms you might understand - you're talking about the "typical American" viewpoint, I'm talking about the "typical Yank-o-Centric" viewpoint. There is a difference.
Dowding (hoping this time he has made it clear)
-
According to the big bang theory, not only did matter and energy expand from the original creation point, spacetime itself expanded from that point. All points in the universe were at the original start time, one and the same point. They are still in essence one and the same point, and each can with equal validity claim to be the center of a boundless yet finite volume which is our universe.
Therefore, Yank-o-centric theory, declaring the USA the center of the universe is as valid a theory as any.
-
Thank-you Dr. Hawking. Although it seems to have escaped your attention, I was not talking about spatial relativity.
-
Sorry, I was busy setting up an experiment in the accelerator and didn't have enough time to go back several posts.
And Dr Hawking, located at a prestigious university in England, would probably prefer that the center was somewhere near Greenwich as he espouses the lime-o-centric theory.
-
Originally posted by Dowding
OK. Let me put it in terms you might understand - you're talking about the "typical American" viewpoint, I'm talking about the "typical Yank-o-Centric" viewpoint. There is a difference.
Dowding (hoping this time he has made it clear)
Oh, your opinion is quite clear. I'm just not sure that you grasp what mine is. Allow me to help.
"American" and "yank-O-centric" are not exclusive terms, IMO. Hell, in my case, the center is a tad more clearly defined, as being in Texas :)
I don't think we're unique in this, I know Brits that feel the same way about the UK, for instance. The French are notorious for this same quality. I don't blame anyone for regarding their homeland as the center of the universe. Its a perfectly natural human tendency.
Reverence for one's own home doesn't preclude being a good world community member was more the point I was trying to make. You're just as out of line to have said what you did as the person you directed your remarks to was. He said what he did, there was no reason to take other "Yanks" to task for it.
I might have as easily accused you of having a "Euro-centric" atitude based on your original retort. I chose to instead address the individual specifically. I hope you may see the difference.
culero
-
Very well said Culero. It's a sad fact that those with the narrowest minds paint with the broadest brushes.
-
Originally posted by Dowding
Yank-o-Centric = US is centre of universe around which everything else revolves
Pretty much.
-
Originally posted by Tumor
Well, considering it was the Italians who let Abu Abbas walk after the Achille Lauro incident.... no great loss if they leave.
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi may be a crook, but he is not a wimp IMHO. I would be surprised if he pulls Italian troops out of Iraq. More likely, he will increase their number.
-
Frankly, I am more concerned about the weakness than the signs of it.
miko
-
Just to put things in perspective.
Originally posted by muckmaw
Give a country a bloody nose and no matter how strong it is, they will pull out?
Where did you read Italians are pulling out?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tumor
Well, considering it was the Italians who let Abu Abbas walk after the Achille Lauro incident.... no great loss if they leave.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. you need guts to oppose a territorial violation with a little group of lightly armed Carabinieri against a bunch of well armed Marines, well known as trigger happy people.
I suggest you to explore better that episode.
Originally posted by Gsholtz
The Italians have a lot of experience fighting terrorism, but not guerilla warfare. I'm not sure how they will react.
We have some knowledge about guerrilla, if you count the fact that, during WWII, the germans were beated, and in some pleces even surrendered to Italian freedom fighters (Partigiani).
I suggest an interesting episode, for me, "le quattro giornate di Napoli" (the four days of Naples), a popular revolt that put the germans on the run before the arrival of the allies, 1-4 october 1943.
An episode that i feel very strongly, being my father, at those times 13 years old, one of the combatants.
Back on topic, the maiority of our people disagree with this war, but we sent our troops, specialized in peace-keeping, to help a poor people and our allies.
And we will stay.
-
Originally posted by aztec
Very well said Culero. It's a sad fact that those with the narrowest minds paint with the broadest brushes.
Thanks, I'm actually quite proud of my restraint in not saying "There there, no use allowing a silly twit to provoke you imto being a bilious twit!" ;)
culero ~g,d,rlh!~
-
Originally posted by mrblack
LOL WOW a whole 850 troops !!!
gald you could spare them :aok
What a MORON
Actually thats the current level...Iraq was our biggest deployment since Vietnam, and nearly ALL our diggers were at the sharp end of the point, especially the FA-18's, SAS, Commando's, naval vessels and Navy demolition team who all managed to do their jobs without a single casualty...
People like you just make it more easy to wish it was zero from the start...
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
We haven't reached the end tronski, GWB announced the end of major military action, not the end of the war. All that meant is an end to strategic bombing and 500 strong tank maneuvers. A lot of work yet to do.
The liberal govt. said there would be no occupational force maintained after the end of the military action, mostly I suppose to placate the largely anti-war sentiment.
Most of the units that saw front line action have been withdrawn, but there is still a "security" force, and other assets still in the theatre.
Tronsky
-
From what I gather, while the majority of the nation is in occupation mode, the Sunni triangle is not yet there.
There Baathists are still resisting, and while that may be largely a mop up operation, I would not characterize the forces there as occupation forces.
In my mind occupation connotes capitulation and we are not there yet, at least in Tikrit.
-
Originally posted by Naso
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tumor
Well, considering it was the Italians who let Abu Abbas walk after the Achille Lauro incident.... no great loss if they leave.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. you need guts to oppose a territorial violation with a little group of lightly armed Carabinieri against a bunch of well armed Marines, well known as trigger happy people.
I suggest you to explore better that episode.
The hijacking of the Achille Lauro ended Oct. 9 after Egypt negotiated with the hijackers. Abbas, who helped negotiate the surrender, and the four hijackers were flown out of Egypt on a jet that was intercepted by U.S. Navy fighters and forced to land in Sicily.
Tensions arose as soon as the plane landed. Armed U.S. and Italian soldiers faced off, each side demanding custody of the hijackers. The situation was only resolved after feverish telephone calls between Premier Bettino Craxi and President Reagan.
The Italians took custody of the four and promised to try them, but refused to detain Abbas, saying the evidence compiled by Washington was insufficient and that he held an Iraqi diplomatic passport. Within two days, he slipped out of the country.
So "Mr", whats to explore? Gotta say, nice work eh? The Italians caved to Terrorists, period.
Just to clear things up, I'm proud to work beside Italians. Truly appreciate thier efforts. I hope they stick to thier guns, if not... I'd hope it's not because they are willing to show weakness to Terrorists. See, thats the concept OF Terrorism, by definition.
-
I remember in the 70s when the French government turned a blind eye to terrorist networks operating in France on the basis that if the terrorists thought they had a safe haven there, they wouldn't harm the French.
That theory (literally) got blown sky high when bombs started going off in the Paris Metro and the French had to then re-think their policy on terrorism
Ravs