Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BotaBing on September 26, 2000, 01:58:00 PM
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I believe that there is a whole book that could be written about the sociological and psychological nuances of online gaming. The online gaming crowd is multinational, of above-average intelligence, and generally in the age range of 15-40 years old.
I find it odd to think that the trend in online gaming has been to control people, to censor people, to impose rules of conduct on people, all of which are more stringent than the social norms we live with in day to day life (my vantage point is life in America, so I can't speak about day to day life for other nationalities.)
Freedom of Speech - Isn't it amazing that a community of people who are playing a World War II Flight Simulator would be so riddled with members who ask for censorship?
There are constant complaints about foul language, racial slurs, and general main arena atmosphere. You have an ignore. You have a squelch. You should have a foul language filter as well. You also have the option to simply turn off the public channel, turn off the country channel, turn off your area channel. Hell, you can do just about anything you want to to keep yourself from hearing/reading things you don't want to hear/read. But apparently, thats not good enough...there are a ton of people calling for pure censorship plain and simple, and not just censorship, but muting.
What kind of message do you send to someone when you mute them for 10 minutes because they said an english cuss word that happens to be on the list of what HTC thinks is inappropriate? They didn't even publish the list.
I can call you an bellybutton licking sperm guzzling crack potato on the public forum. But if I say OH toejam because i have 3 cons on my 6, I get muted? That's just brilliant.
I think it is amazing that people want entertainment time (flying this game for example) that is more strictly controlled that their day to day lives.
If you go to a restaurant, and there is someone sitting next to you that you don't know..guess what? You may have to hear some things you don't like to hear. That guy may say "These nachos taste like toejam, im sending it back" - your choice is to get up and leave, or ask him to stop. Sorry, you don't get to mute him for 10 minutes.
If you go to an air show, and you go to get your favorite book signed by a WWII fighter ace, you know what...you might hear that guy talk about when he was in the Pacific and the scariest encounter he ever had with a Jap Zero. If you are offended by that, your choice is to walk away, or you could ask this man not to use the word Jap because you find it offensive. Good luck with that one..the guy will probably laugh, or shake his head.
I guess I'm not surprised by this development, but I am wary of the attitude.
In every online game I have played, there has always been a background chatter of the people who want more control, more restrictions, less personal accountability. Its growing with each new game I seem to play.
Do you honestly believe that its better to MUTE people for saying something that HTC thinks is inappropriate, than to simply give everyone the option on whether or not to be able to hear those things? No matter what context? No matter what reason for the language?
do you honestly believe that it is appropriate to ban every word that some group finds offensive?
Brits
Yanks
Japs
Jerry
Canuck
Ruskies
There are so many people nowadays who are offended by things, I would say that its impossible to put the burden on the speaker. It is the listener who should have to take care of themselves..just like in real life.
If you dont like what Im saying,
then don't read my post.
If you dont like my comments in game, then
squelch me, ignore me.
If you dont like my foul language, but you happen to want to hear everything else im saying, then ask for a filter that simply edits out the offensive words.
Tyring to censor speech is just the first step in many more things to come. First, you censor speech, then you start to control conduct.
This is a game. I play this for entertainment, to relax, to get rid of stress after work. In gaming, I like to do things and say things that I cant do or say all day long because of real life societal consequences...gaming is fun for me because I can open up and say what I really wanted to say all day long.
One of the most ironic things about this whole censorship issue is the level of priority and reality that people seem to want in their games.
Most of the people that fly this game are against a realistic flight environment. If someone on your own team accidentally shoots you, they get damaged and not you?? You hug your ack to try to score a cheap kill, knowing your own ack wont hurt you. What a total joke. These furballs are a constant joke in my mind because noone cares about the consequences of their gaming actions. You shoot at the wrong time, you drop a bomb in the wrong place, nothing happens. Yet the same people who really like that are the same people who want a censored communication channel, where profanity, racial slurs, or whatever else offends people is prohibited.
Amazing sense of priority out there people.
You can hug your ack to score a kill, with no risk to yourself (yeah cuz that is realistic) But don't you dare say Jap (yeah cuz that never happens)
How long before we are grounding people because they HO someone?
How long before the chat filter is filtering out words other than something considered profane, such as nickname, names of countries, concepts, political hot topics, etc?
[This message has been edited by BotaBing (edited 09-26-2000).]
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Not once do you use or talk about "respect" and I think that is the core to your problem.
-Westy
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(http://www.raf303.org/funked/starwars.jpg) (http://www.raf303.org/funked/wookie.wav)
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Westy -
You don't have to say the word respect to be talking about it. My whole post is about respect.
Respect for other people's right to express themselves, even if they have a personality you find offensive.
Respect for individual freedom and choice, instead of one rule fits all.
Respect for the reality that this is just a game, not real life, and that it's simply a bad choice for all of these computer companies to try to put more controls on people in an entertainment setting than they have in real life.
My problem is not with me, its with the sheeple out there who want to take the easy way out, without considering the larger ramifications of their actions.
Funked -
LOL. (Even though I find that offensive, I don't think you should be muted for that.)
[This message has been edited by BotaBing (edited 09-26-2000).]
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Botabing:
AFAIK, AH is privately owned. That means HTC can set whatever rules they like. If someone doesn't obey the rules or exhibits poor behavior, they get ejected/penalized. Just like in a sporting event. They call it "unsportsmanlike conduct".
"Censorship" does not apply in this situation. Quit whining about your "Rights" and think about the player's "Responsibilities" for a change. Play by the rules or hit the road.
Cabby
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=44th FS "VAMPIRES"=
"The Jungle Air Force"
Welcome To The Jungle!!!"
[This message has been edited by cabby (edited 09-26-2000).]
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1. In RL your exposure to the things you do not like is severely limited by your own choice of where you live, work and recreate. There are also some stable standards and indications you can rely on.
If you see some movie advertized as "romantic comedy" you can be sure it is not a porn-bestiality movie. If a restaurant ad says "quiet family atmosphere" you can be sure it's not a S&M club.
If you see "dirty teenagers anal sex chat" you will not be surprised by what you see there
Why then, when I subscribe to "realistic WWII flight sim" with no mention of "Adult Only" should I see crap totally unrelated to the WWII or flight simming?
2. In a restaurant or on-line game I can leave if someone disturbs me, as per your example. So a proprietor or HTC will lose money because of that.
3. You can call whoever and whatever you want and talk about anything as long as it is in the "Off-topic" on this forum. That is why it is here! But while on-line I am there to play and ch1 and country chanel are usefull tools for me. I do not want to forgo their use because of some inconsiderate bastards.
All you guys fighting for your right to say anything on public chanels, do you do the same thing in the real places, like restaurants or public places? Haven't seen you there, al least not for longer then a few seconds it takes a proprietor to kick your sorry bellybutton out.
But here a few perverted cowards can try to ruin HTC business just because they can.
It doesn't matter what particuar stuff irritates people. That is not an issue of political correctness but of cortesy. Not everything that is legal to say should be said in a polite company.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 09-26-2000).]
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Fact remains that in the arena's we have no right to free speach, and HTC has the right to refuse business to whoever they like. That's the LAW and HTC's right. If you go to a resturant and hear somebody using fowl language you can ask them to stop, they don't have to, but you can go complain to the manager. I've seen people removed from resteraunts, movie theaters and other public places for using fowl language and refusing to stop when asked politely. There is such a thing called public decency and acceptable public behavior.
Did you read HT's post yesterday? It pretty much spelled it out to me. They have a vision of where they want this game to go, and fowl language on the open chanels is not part of that vision. Dude how thick is your skull for that not to sink in? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. HT said he's going to chage it and open up the squad chanels on the next host update.
It's like Ted Nugent said if you want to dance around in a pool of goat urine be my guest, just don't splash on me. Well to some people look at bad laguage on the open chanels as being splashed on, can't you respect that? How old are you?
Another thing, HT said it's not so much the language their trying to control as it is the attitude/behavior in the arena. Yours is the exact type of attitude that I think they are talking about. They are trying to make the arena an enjoyable experience for EVERYBODY not just the ones who seem to have the need to curse in public. With the next update you'll be able to talk like a drunken sailor on the squad chanel, shouldn't that be enough? I know that's where I do all my realy bad cursing, just ask Berserkr (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) all caps too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Last thing, I have noticed, since HT put the filter on, that alot of the people arguing against the filter are cursing ALOT more than normal. HMMMMMMMM childish behavior?
[Udie closes the face plate of his fireproof ACME survival armor]
Udie
[This message has been edited by Udie (edited 09-26-2000).]
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Must be me Botabing. I took your post as nothing to do with respect but all to do with your loss of perceived rights and how you feel your not being allowed to be crass and vulgar is just another form of repression
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 09-26-2000).]
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Originally posted by Westy:
Must be me Botabing. I took your post as nothing to do with respect but all to do with your loss of perceived rights and how you feel your not being allowed to be crass and vulgar is just another form of repression
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 09-26-2000).]
wasn't just you Westy, I found his reply to you a joke. Respect must be a one way road with him or something...
Udie
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Can anyone say ittsie tennie weeine ity bitty
OVERREACTION
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[RANT]BotaBing,
Get your bellybutton out of the 19th century.
You think that people are more offended now that they were then? If so you're a bleeding moron.
What has happened is that a black man will no longer get lynched for objecting to being called a racist slur. Therefore he CAN object. People are more enfranchised, therefore they WILL stand up for themselves.
Closet bigots like yourself just don't seem to be able to understand what the word "respect" means. Basic respect is holding back what you think inside. You may thing of a Japanese person as a racial slur (and what you typed IS a racial slur) but because you show respect, you say Japanese. Even if it isn't what you think.
Deeper respect is not even thinking of other humans in those terms.[/RANT]
Sisu
-Karnak
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There's also another option you didn't mention if we don't like what you say. That is for us to deny service. You don't need to use profanity to make that happen.
We did a similar thing in WB about 4 years ago as a wake-up call to people. Was it a trend then too? Your arguments, and those that agree or dissent with your views are voicing nothing new, it's the same exact things that were said when this happened in WB. You don't like how we handled this and people then didn't either. Well that's exactly the point. People can either control themselves within reason or force us to babysit them or kick them out.
The real shame here is that a small number of people created a problem that we had to waste time on. They have stolen development time away from us and our customers. We have few people and short development cycles, so it really irritates me to waste time on a few at the expense of many.
It is your core attitude on this issue that is the real problem that we're trying to fix, not whether someone says "shit". This is a social game, it's up to you to fit into it, not for everyone else to fit into you.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Originally posted by Baddawg:
Can anyone say ittsie tennie weeine ity bitty
OVERREACTION
If you are referring to your reaction of the filter then yes I can.
Udie
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My reaction of the filter?
My reply was to Bota Bings rant
[This message has been edited by Baddawg (edited 09-26-2000).]
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Originally posted by Pyro:
The real shame here is that a small number of people created a problem that we had to waste time on...This is a social game, it's up to you to fit into it, not for everyone else to fit into you.
DING!
Another WINNER! Give the man a bottle of MacAllan!
Thanks for trying to clear it up again, Pyro. I hope it finally gets through.
It's a damn shame the FW-190-D9 got delayed another 6 months while you guys were working on the filter. <G,D,R>
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ooops thought you were Botabing hehe sorry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Guess I should pay more attention...
Udie
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Bota-Bing,
There is so much lack of understanding and backwards logic in your post, I don't know where to begin.
I think it is amazing that people want entertainment time (flying this game for example) that is more strictly controlled that their day to day lives.
No, I want my entertainment time to be more civilized than my regular day-to-day life.
In every online game I have played, there has always been a background chatter of the people who want more control, more restrictions, less personal accountability.
We want more personal accountability, not less. If we had more personal accountability, we wouldn't need a filter. Hello? Sheesh!
Do you honestly believe that its better to MUTE people for saying something that HTC thinks is inappropriate, than to simply give everyone the option on whether or not to be able to hear those things? No matter what context? No matter what reason for the language?
Yes, especially when 95% of the rest of us know better than to use offensive language like diddly and toejam in public. Like it or not, every place in America has a moral "code", from your local church to your local strip joint. They just use different codes, that's all. HiTech has determined that Aces High is not going to be the cesspool of online behavior.
Adjust to it, or take your money and your foul-mouthed friends and hit the road!
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I should probably clear something up for those of you who are so closed-minded that you can't even think that I am posting out of an objective viewpoint, not some self-serving desire for a right to force you to hear my cussing. I cuss on the squad channel. I don't cuss on the public channel.
Just because I don't cuss on the public channel doesn't mean I don't have a reason to belive that the server-side filter is the wrong solution to carrying out HTC's goal.
No server-side solution, short of simply banning someone, will ever fix the problem of people saying things you don't like to hear.
I feel like the majority of the people responding don't really understand my point, so I will try to rephrase it and see if that helps.
#1 - A server-side filter is not the best solution to HTC's desire to change/steer the atmosphere of the game.
#2 - Picking out certain cuss words to filter is the first step in a long line of steps to total thought control
You start with muting people for saying "Shit"...it's only a matter of time before you move on to muting people who say "Jap". What kind of bellybutton would mute someone for saying "Jap" but not someone who says "Brit". Once you've picked out all the words that each segment of the arena finds offensive..what then?
Its more than clear...once you have banned certain words, next will be banning topics of discussion. Hell, thats already old news, there are plenty of small-minded people here who would love to ban any public discussion of World War II, nationality, sexuality, history, politics, religion.
Its an endless train of hobgoblins. You start with words...already there are people on the boards asking for more words to be banned, and for racial words/slurs to be banned. Then there are people asking for words in other languages to be banned. People have long since asked people not to discuss certain topics, adn it wont be long now until someone is asking for HTC to filter those topics, or to simply take reports and screenshots and ban users altogether for talking about certain things.
Mark my words....
A few days ago, they banned a small list of American English profanities.
The same night, people were on the boards asking for more American English profanities to be banned.
After that, people were asking for profanities in many other languages to be banned.
The next day, people were on the boards asking for racial slurs to be banned. Not even just racial slurs, but culturally significant abbreviations like Gerry, Jap, etc.
In the past, people have asked that NUMEROUS
topics not even be discussed, such as World War II history, world history, religion, politics, etc
If you can't see that coming, then you're as blind and small-minded as your posts make you sound.
There is one simple solution to not liking what someone else is saying.
IGNORE THEM
SQUELCH THEM
CLIENT-SIDE FILTER
TURN OFF THE CHANNEL
ASK THEM TO STOP
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What kind of bellybutton would mute someone for saying "Jap" but not someone who says "Brit".
The kind of bellybutton who has Japanese-American friends and understands the history of this SLUR in the US.
By the same logic you use, I can call all African-American AH players cupcakes because cupcake is short for negro which literally means black, which is an acceptable term. Also cupcake could be short for Nigeria and I've known a few African-Americans from Nigeria. So I think I'll just call them all cupcakes. That would be great, I'm sure it would go over REALLY WELL.
Botabing, do you really feel that all speech is appropriate in all situations?
Were you raised by wolves?
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 09-26-2000).]
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BotaBing,
Have you ever asked somebody who is swearing up a storm online to kindly stop?
Do you know what the reaction is?
Edit:
Brit IS simply a contraction of British, it even carries a bit of affection.
The other IS a racial slur. It WAS used that way and it IS STILL USED THAT WAY.
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 09-26-2000).]
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BotaBing
maybe you will understand this
YOU...ARE...TAKING...THIS...FILTER...THING...WAY...TOO...SERIOUSLY!!
Sit back, relax, and enjoy the game!
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joness
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" in AH
44th FS <Vampires> in WB
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Are you telling me that there is NOONE who finds "Brit" offensive?
Are you saying that there is no legitimate use of the word "JaP"?
Brit is short for British.
Jap is short for Japanese.
Are you really going to sit there with with a straight face and say one should be banned and the other should not?
That's ridiculous, and that's why i'm against censorship when there are other better alternatives.
By the by, go watch a World War II movie, either real or staged, and you will find that people use the words "Brit" "Gerry" "Yanks" and "Jap" throughout, and I have yet to find a difference.
Jap is offensive to some japanese people because the lost a war they started, and they were ashamed. Of course they are going to be overly sensitive, its human nature. It doesn't mean you get to Cortez a word and preempt everyone else from using it in its historically correct context.
You have to be a moron to think that Jap is the same as cupcake.
Jap is an abbreviation of Japanese, a country.
cupcake is a racial slur, has always been a racial slure, has never been used for anything else, and its an abbreviation of Negro, a race not a country.
Comparing those two words is moronic, and it discredits any other legitimate point you might have made.
[This message has been edited by BotaBing (edited 09-26-2000).]
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well the way i see it is this.
yes people do cuss ll the time, im very bad about it myself. but an outburst(letting a word slip) is a little bet diffrent than taking the time to type that word for everyone to see. imo that isnt really neccesary in a public form to get your point across. thank you
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jcy19 | ||AirWolves| |
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BotaBing:
Calm down. You say that this is the first step towards total control.
Have you taken the time to read HT's post carefully? HT mentioned they did the same thing in WB's. After people calmed down and started being respectfull the filter was removed.
That is what this is all about..RESPECT..
Respect for ones neighbour
Respect for ones house
Respect for others rights
Are you so self centered that you refuse to weigh out the consequences of unrestrained actions? Total anarchy seems to be what you would prefer.
There will always be be rules of common decency, whether self imposed or not. We as a group have broken the rules of common decency towards our friends neighhbours, and HTC's place of business.
Respect that this is HT's house, and he wants others to enjoy their stay here.
Ping
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Bota Bing you simply don't get it on the Jap thing. To all the Japanese-Americans I know, "jap" IS the same as "cupcake".
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PS I don't think we need to tell Botabing to calm down. He doesn't like this and he's being loud about it, but he's not making it personal or rude AFAIK. He even let my joke about the wolves slide. So I think he's quite calm already. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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funked
you are statistically insignifincant. at most, you know, actually know, 30-50 japanese people...or maybe you're some kind of social genius and you know 75-100. and you know them in a country other than japan.
Thats meaningless in the big scope of things. there are millions and millions of japanese in the world, not all of them find it offensive.
If Saudi Arabians find "Saudi" offensive, would we ban it?
The point is that you cannot run your life by what someone else finds offensive, you'll end up not saying anything, not going anywhere..
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Mmm... target fixation, me thinks.
Yea these are dire times indeed, Botabing... but chin up dude... I know you can get through this.
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Originally posted by BotaBing:
funked
you are statistically insignifincant. at most, you know, actually know, 30-50 japanese people...or maybe you're some kind of social genius and you know 75-100. and you know them in a country other than japan.
Thats meaningless in the big scope of things. there are millions and millions of japanese in the world, not all of them find it offensive.
Ummm....so if he is statistically insignificant, what did you do some kind of poll to find out that Japanese people don't find it offensive? Or did you talk to all them individually? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
Luftjägerkorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Whatever BotaBing. All I know is that if you called my friend Koichi a "jap" to his face, you'd better duck. He's got a quick right. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 09-26-2000).]
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If you wanna swear, yell at your monitor! Why do you have to type it into the buffer? How is that useful information for playing the game? Isn't the moment gone by the time you find the 'F' key? Why should I have to make up my own list of words that I don't wanna hear, when you have to do nothing and you are the minority here. It's a democracy, majority rules!
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Ok Bota.. take off the devils advocate pin, and sit down and shaddap. Wonderful debate; and I want you to apply immediatly for a postion at the ACLU. If my civil rights ever get violated in a meaningful way; I want you to take care of it for me.
But IMHO, my rights; our 'rights'; in this game have not been violated. It's not our game. Its' HTC's. They control the horizontal and the verticle in the game, and even on this BBS. If you don't like the game and their rules; keep yer thirty bucks. Take yer buisness elsewhere. Thats your right.
I love America. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Look.. This is a game. Shoot the red planes. They shoot back at you. Do-dah; do-dah.
Get with the program.
Hang
P.S. 'Jap' IS a racial slur on the same level a 'cupcake' or 'chink' or 'slope' or 'gook'. Soory.. but that's a fact Bota.
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I'm getting tired of morons who apply "respect" only to what they feel like respecting, who simply DON'T GET IT although a bunch of reasonably intelligent people is trying reasonably calmly explain to them.
If Saudi Arabians find "Saudi" offensive, would we ban it?
Of course we should - if it offends some people while making no difference at all to you (being a normal person you claim to be) why would you carry on offending them? Sheesh!
Can we please have .squelch on this board?
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 09-27-2000).]
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Hang:
How is it a racial slur? "Jap" refers to a nationality, not a race. "Kraut" does the same, yet is not consider a racist slur. More like a patriotic slur, if you will.
We have such nicknames for most; meant to be derogatory in a funny sort of way, even if they weren't from the start.
Call me Daney or whatever (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
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Botabing, you are questioning about respect and rights without understand either of them.
Right is never a one-way question, if it is granted to you the right to speech freely, your part is to be responsable of the thinks you are saying, and make your part to grant the other's rights.
Respect is to consider others as equals to you (implicitly with the same rights), and to grant them the same treatment you wish they give to you, mean to understand the differences and act to avoid to force your behaviours on them, mean to consider their points of view at least equivalent to yours (even if wrong).
For your behaviour it's clear you dont have ANY respect for this community.
And, for the above statement, you cant be respected, because the respect has to be always MUTUAL.
Back to the old jap theme.
Let's see how a mature person act in this situation:
You are now in a community where there are big cultural differences, and for the beginning you have to be particularly sensible to the others feelings.
Like me you never felt the word "jap" as an offensive word, but one component of our community raise up and said that for a lot of people from Japan this word cut be offensive, and because i am a mature person, and i respect this great community (<S>!!), i decided to force myself to try to not use this word (can happens when i am not paying attention), the same way i avoid (for my culture is easy) the word cupcake.
The above in contests where using this words cut be offensive.
I explain better, i have a black friend from afrika, and for joke (since he is racist) i call him cupcake, in that contest both of us know is'nt offensive.
But in the arena or in the bbs this understanding is impossible, and a smart guy (hoping you are such a guy), have to be REAL carefull before saying this kind of racist words.
A mature person understand the rules and act to respect it.
A kid have long way before to understand it, and in this anonymous contest feel free to act without responsability.
Since childlish attitude has growth more and more, HTC has chose to act as a parent and force the knidergarden to have more educated behaviours.
Is rules enforcement, teorically to avoid, but pratically to made when there are persons not enough mature to respect rules without any enforcement.
Better this than a quakelike community.
You dont like it?
Well, this is HTC's house, so YOU have to step out, and go back to play Quake. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I dont respect you?
Well, show respect, and you will be respected.
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Naso
4° Stormo Caccia "F.Baracca" (http://digilander.iol.it/4Stormo)
L'è Buna!!
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These furballs are a constant joke in my mind because noone cares about the consequences of their gaming actions. You shoot at the wrong time, you drop a bomb in the wrong place, nothing happens. Yet the same people who really like that are the same people who want a censored communication channel, where profanity, racial slurs, or whatever else offends people is prohibited.
What would you want to happen? People get fined for messing up in the game, or just get kicked off? And I think that's the point, THIS IS A GAME - people play it for enjoyment and to escape from real life for abit, upon which this GAME has no bearing. This GAME has to make certain comprimises with reality, just to be fun. For instance you can die more than once (in ww2, this didn't happen too often) or go through a thousand spitfires; the GAME would be pretty crap if it were otherwise. I don't see how you can advocate anythung else - you'd be playing on your own with about 10 people if you wanted it hyper-realistic (and you'd be paying a hell of alot, with newbies going to the competition for a more enjoyable experience. I don't see the problem with liking the gameplay as it is (however 'unrealistic' it is), but still supporting the filtering of swearwords.
As for racial slurs etc. - you are happy with hearing that kind of ignorant rubbish? Most people aren't in my experience, and are uncomfortable with it. There is no place for it anywhere, especially in a global, multi-cultural environment such as AH.
Regarding your right to free speech (point of contention considering this is HTC's arena) - with every right comes RESPONSIBILITY, and that is something you don't seem to have considered.
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-27-2000).]
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You can make use of your right of free speech by cursing at the top of your lungs at the monitor. We also have the right not to be subjected to vocabulary challanged childern cussing because their mom went to bed.
Be an adult.
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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York (http://www.trueorigins.net/411rcaf)
"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]
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Originally posted by Toad:
It's a damn shame the FW-190-D9 got delayed another 6 months while you guys were working on the filter. <G,D,R>
<censored>
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(pop! pzvg appears)
Stsanta, Trying calling one of us germans
"Kraut" face to face, you might not offend, but then again, you might. Hint; "I" would be in the aforementioned "offended" group.
(Pop! pzvg disappears)
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Came and call me a Pollack to my face.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Though trying to reason with the un-reasonable is fruitless, I will add this:
If one person finds it offensive, then you should stop using it altogether[/i]...that's what respect is all about. Period.
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Ripsnort....you're kidding yourself. If we had to limit what we say based on whether or not there was one person who found it offensive, there would be no talk on the public channel.
Feel free to join the reality that the rest of us live in at your earliest convenience heheh...
I guess you never went to school at a big state college? There's a group against everything and anything.
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Originally posted by BotaBing:
Feel free to join the reality that the rest of us live in at your earliest convenience heheh...
I guess you never went to school at a big state college? There's a group against everything and anything.
Nice to see that you have to make personal insults to players to get your point across.
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Rip..how on earth is that a personal insult??
You wrote:
If one person finds it offensive, then you should stop using it altogether...that's what respect is all about. Period.
That is a comment so far removed from the reality of the internet gaming environment its hard to think you really believe that.
If you find that to be a personal insult, then its more evidence of why you would make a claim like that in the first place.
There are people that play this game who dont want anyone to talk about WWII History, politics, religion or sex.
Do you honestly believe that talk about those subject should be banned in this game?
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<SIGH>....<Rip walks away, closes the door behind him, passes the orderly a 20 spot>"Give him an extra dessert tonight while he's debating with himself in the corner..thanks"
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There are so many people nowadays who are offended by things, I would say that its impossible to put the burden on the speaker. It is the listener who should have to take care of themselves..just like in real life.
BotaBing, you aren't the villain some are portraying you to be, you've just missed out on a couple of points.
With all rights come responsibilities. You have a right to bear arms, but does that mean you can fire a gun in the air anywhere you want indiscriminantly? Nope, of course not. Likewise, given your right to free speech, does that mean you can say anything you want wherever you want? Again, the answer is no. In both cases you have a responsibility for what occurs as a result of your actions.
When you are in the arena, you aren't talking on the steps of your state capitol, you are communicating in someones privately owned business. That business has every right to establish and maintain standards of behavior.
In real life, burdens of conduct, speech, appearance, etc... are continually placed on people in public. Can you stand up and recite the declaration of independence at the top of your lungs in a movie theater? Can you go to a black-tie restaurant in a pair of speedos? Ever see a "no shirt-no shoes-no service" sign? How about a "no-loitering" sign? All of these are examples of ways that business control the environments their customers find themselves in by controlling the conduct of their customers. That is all that HTC is doing, and they have every legal, ethical and moral right to do it. The effectiveness of their methods is a seperate issue that you raise valid points on.
Gordo
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Make fun of me Kilt and your a dead man (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Acccccccccccccccccchhhh...tha t ain't oatmeal. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LOL Torque!!
StSanta.. I grew up and went to school in Southern Califonia. I'm a 'Valley Boy'. The family next door was Japanese, down the block we had an African American couple, across the street two Hispanic families. The house behind ours was owned by an Italian. Our mailman was polish, the milkman was swedish, and our school principal was so damn german nobody could understand him.
We had some great block parties.
And there; in the San Fernando valley, in a little town called Reseda; cupcake; wop; spic, jap, pollack, kraut, square-head, etc were fightin words.
Maybe in europe; they take it diffrently.. that's ok. But I was raised to show respect for my fellow citizens.. and the above slurs were considered a major fopah in my town, and we tend to keep the counsel or our social conditioning. Even though I now live and work 3,000 miles from where I was raised, I do not address a Japanese person as "Hey; you there.. yah, you; the JAP; hey; you got the time?"
Hang
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So what's the racial slur for us americans, "cans"? Or better yet, I'm from california so I must be a "freakin' 'fornian" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Ugh sorry (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
But truthfully, ya'll can call me any foul mouthed thing you can think, It's the CONTEXT that matters. My friends call me biatch, but being called "stupid" can be the worst if it's in an insulting manner. Dig? Filters are not the answer.