Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zigrat on December 04, 2001, 11:48:00 AM
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i just figured out that if for the past two years i had worked instead of playing aces high, for that number of hours i could have a shiny new 2002 a4. i wish i had the a4.
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Well, at least playing AH is more productive than regret. ;)
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you havent worked for 2 years?
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Zig look at it this way, had you not been flying AH your wife would have made you spend "quality" time with her-snuggling after sex, watching chick movies, stuff like that-Oh the humanity! see how much better off you are playing AH-Shooter :eek:
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Don't say such a thing....
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heh.....zigs not married so he dont have to worry about that stuff anyway
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had you worked for the last two years you could have bought some hobo 2 years worth of general assistance checks and maybe even been able to pay your own bills.
'you aint missin nuthin'
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i just figured out that if for the past two years i had worked instead of playing aces high, for that number of hours i could have a shiny new 2002 a4. i wish i had the a4.
A car is a depreciating asset...AH is a life changing experience.
Get your priorities straight will ya!?!
:)
(http://www.13thtas.com/rudesig.jpg)
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Why would anyone buy a Audi ?
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Maybe if they don't have a VW dealer nearby.
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Funked, did you get your WRX? I had this cool video of a WRX racing at the track,I'll try to dig it up.
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All work and no play makes Zigrat a dull boy.
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If you had done drugs instead of flying aces high where would you be.
What if the american revolutions had not happend?
Snap out of it bud.
You getting your masters or something at Aero engineering. You have having fun at school and here.
Count your blessings not the car payments you dont have to make.
Keep this up and ill make ya fly the spitfire again like you were before I saved ya.
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Relax Zig, you have plenty of time ahead of you to work. When you can afford an A4 you won't want one... unless you meant a FW-190A4?
ra
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oops
[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Pongo ]
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Originally posted by ra:
When you can afford an A4 you won't want one...
ra
Ain't it the truth?
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Zigster... someone would just key the damn car anyway ... muhahaha :)
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An A4? :confused: A4? Isn't that the ugly small car with an Audi sticker on? I can't believe anyone would buy one.
Maybe AH saved you from making a big mistake. I constantly laugh at people in A4's. :D
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
i just figured out that if for the past two years i had worked instead of playing aces high, for that number of hours i could have a shiny new 2002 a4. i wish i had the a4.
You'd like the Audi. I had a 1999.5 A4 and now I have a 2001.5 A4!
The new 2002 3.0 is nice. I'm personally waiting 16months for the next S4.
Quattro!
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I have an inny :)
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I snorted a 3 bedroom house in Marin County in my 20's. :D
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Waaa? audi's and vw's? I say if they can't drive real cars then let your wives walk.
lazs
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mox if your 1999 needs a good home i will gladly accept donations :D
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I was thinking of the A3 (possibly the ugliest car ever made). The A4 isn't bad. Ignore my post.
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
mox if your 1999 needs a good home i will gladly accept donations :D
Well you wouldn't want the 1999.5, it was hit when a lady in a old ford escort ran a red light doing approx 65mph. At the time the A4 was 3 weeks old. The A4 held up perfectly with 21K of damage done to it my wife walked away without a single scratch.
After seeing the A4 shaped like a "U" and my wife walking towards me not even hurt I decided I'd try another Audi!
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Originally posted by lazs1:
Waaa? audi's and vw's? I say if they can't drive real cars then let your wives walk.
lazs
Let me guess Laz...it's got to be big American iron so, how about a 1976 Monte Carlo in Corsair Blue?
Or a good ole American truck?
As many wrecks as my wifes been in, it would be less expensive if she would drive something big like a `76 Monte Carlo. :)
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Mox ]
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American cars are too big, they're smelly, drive like a brick sh*thouse and have little class.
That's my honest opinion. Buy German or Italian or French or Japanese... ;)
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yeah... french cars ar great. I look at wrecks the same way I look at autloaders for police. When they had revolvers the average gunfight was 1.7 shots. It's now up around 12 or so with the high capacity mags. Volvo drivers think they are invincible so they drive like it.
and no toejamtingpoultry... guess again.
lazs
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My ex sliced a Volvo in half with her 72 Chevy Wagon. The 2 section psuedo-Volvo was a basket case.. the Chevy needed a grill and bumper.
She drove it for 4 more years, then I bought her a 77 Olds Delta 88 Diesel. She used that to part out 79 BMW. Oh, the humanity. Little pieces of german schnitzel car abounded for 100 yards down the freeway divider. The olds needed a radiator in addition to the grille and front bumper.
The squeak just don't like european cars I guess.
Buy American. Or watch out for the squeak.
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You know Laz, the place where you live says a lot about you. Dixon, eh? Yep, that place really suits you! :D
If I had to choose between a car which implodes on impact and a car which is as stiff as King Kongs hard-on, I'd choose the imploding car anyday. If you people knew anything about energy absorption and disipation, you'd know that a car is designed to fall to pieces by things which are called "crumple zones". Just imagine you're doing 65 mph, car crumple zones take absorption and slow you down to something more reasonable. Then take your big, beefy, stiff Yank vehicle. At 65 mph it hardly bends the bumper (fender for you guys), no impact absorption and you're flung against the windscreen (windshield for you guys) at 60 mph. OUCH!.
I would much rather my car to disintegrate than my head! :D
Is that the reason why your speed limits are so low in the US? Cos your cars aren't good in high speed accidents? :)
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Umm flyingduck is that also why Formula1 cars are extremely stiff and can hit a wall at 120mph without even bending the monocock and with drivers walking out mildly bruised?
I've always disliked the cushion zones because they seem to limit the 'survival zone' inside the passenger area. It only works if the car interior is built supertough to prevent even smallest deformation of the passenger space. Most cars lack that feature and become meat grinders at high speeds.
Of course there is development done in that area and the latest models start to look pretty good in that aspect.
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Now Mr.Ripley, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Formula cars are made in two pieces. YOu have the outer shell and you have the monocoque. The outer shell which everything is attached to is designed to break away easily to disipate energy and impact. That is why if you have ever seen an F1 race they explode on impact. When you take the outer shell away you are left with a square box in which the driver sits in. Also known as the monocoque. Now, the reasoon the driver survives the high speed impact is for a number of reasons. a) The outer shell has disipated a portion of the energy from impact. b) The 3 point harnesses which hold the driver tight. c) The helmet on the driver's head.
You will notice that in an ordinary vehicle you don't often find 3 point harnesses or people wearing crash helmets.
If you were to take away crumple zones from a normal every day car, you'd have more people suffer brain haemorrhaging due to rapid deacceleration. Many traffic accidents in the 70's were fatal due to just this reason even though they were at a relatively low speed and very survivable today. All cars today are designed for impact absorption through crumple zones. Even those big Chevy trucks. Many times people contribute a big Jeep type vehicle disintegrating a normal saloon type vehicle due to the Jeeps more rigid construction, but mostly it is due down to the height because the Jeep type vehicle often has its bumper reaching roof pillars of the normal saloon, which is a very week spot and so causing major damage. In reality, even a big Chevy have crumple zones and will disintegrate if driven into a wall.
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I have made it a policy to not listen to brits on subjects like automobiles, personal freedom, or dental care.
lazs
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Laz:
That's why you ended up with the Ford Motor Company, OJ Simpson and Ruby Wax. You never follow good advice.
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Geesh Hang,
That house in Marin Co. would have multiplied in price at least 4 times by now. You could have bought a real P-51D by now...hehe. Oh well that place(Marin Co.) is too rich for me. I live on the "other" bay...affordable too. ;)
As for you Zig.........forget about automobiles as they are only for guys seeking women. Go to the airport and find yourself an airplane, preferably a Pitts S2E or a Christen Eagle II, and buy it........then get a lawyer, cause airplanes and a wife don't mix... :D :D After all your money is gone and your tired of it all...Aces High is still your friend. ;)
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Thorns ]
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When Hang was in his 20s a real mustang could be had for 500$ and it came full of fuel too.
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When I was in my 20's a mustang ate oats.
ra
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Dumped the ex-wife, got a 2001 Audi allroad. I must smile every time I get in it. Since I stopped flying planes in real life (tm), it's the closest I've been able to get.
Oh, except for landing a King Air at Atlanta Hartsfield last spring. That was cool!
:D
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cmon ra you cant be that old.
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Why don't you buy your wife a nice Motorbike? Like a big "o" Honda Fireblade or Suziki GSXR 1000 :) Intresting to see that... HAHAHA
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I have (for once) to agree with FDSS on this one.
American cars are good enough while your driving in a straight line....at the first curve you're in trouble :p
I had the pleasure a couple of years ago to drive an old Audi 200 3.0 quattro....it seemed to defy the law of inertia...
And, although I don't usually like french cars, I had to admit that the Peugeot 406 3.0 really impressed me.
Now, if you're going off-road, most of american trucks/jeeps are pretty good at it.
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A4? hmmmm was that the one that had a tendancy to fly off the road at high speed? Atleast until they added the rear spoiler.
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FDSS: I seriously doubt the falling parts of the formula do anything else than put the driver at risk. The reason they fall off is that theyre made as light as possible and therefore are very fragile.
When a F1 crashes to a wall nose first, the monocoque is the first one to take the impact and therefore all those falling pieces play no meaning in the survival.
Remember Ayrton Senna who died when a part of the multilink suspension pierced his helmet and stuck in his brain?
After that they started figuring out ways to _keep_ wheels etc. in place.
I agree about the rest of course, good seat belts and spacy cockpit are the key to survival in a collision. The human body can sustain huge deacceleration if the seat and seatbelts are properly made..
F.E. aircraft seats were studied and the study showed that the seats generally were made so weak that it ripped apart at half the deacceleration-g's a human would have lived through. When that happens the chair stops being a protection and turns into giljotin.
However sudden impacts to the head usually kill which is why airbags were introduced.
Another important fact in collisions is the weight. The more your car weighs compared to your opposing crasher, the more chances are that you will just hear a thump and the lighter car flies backwards with a speed equalling of your drivespeed. In pieces of course.. That is exactly what happens when someone collides with a truck or a train.
Another point why I don't like crumple zones is that they completely destroy the car even at a small impact. It's common to see the center pillar of the car bent upwards after a medium speed collision - that means the car won't be fixable.
I've seen a brand new audi crash with a russian lada which is _not_ known for its protection, comfort or even weight..
The audi was completely leveled from its frontal part, including the engine compartment and cooler with airbags blown and seatbelts automatically tightened..
The insurance company most likely repossessed the car in exchange to a new one.
The lada was just bent from the left corner and probably needed a new headlight, tire and some metal work.
Both drivers were standing outside assessing the damage.
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flyingducksitingswan (yes I know it sounds effeminate but he IS british) said... "Laz:
That's why you ended up with the Ford Motor Company, OJ Simpson and Ruby Wax. You never follow good advice.
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No... actually you ended up with FoMoCo.. Course that was a good thing since they rescued all your car compannies and banished the prince of darkness (joe lucas) and all the other british gremlins. Wow! A Jag that doesn't leak and starts up without calling a mechanic and... The headlights work.... at night even! A dependabel jag? Blasphemy! OJ?? well, better to let him go so that he can catch the one armed man than impose some kinda "knife control".. "ruby wax"??? Must be some kinda left over lend lease thing we pawned off on you guys... You don't really use that crap do ya?
lazs
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Originally posted by TPIguy:
A4? hmmmm was that the one that had a tendancy to fly off the road at high speed? Atleast until they added the rear spoiler.
No the model your talking about is the Audi TT (the Euro version). A unskilled and untrained driver bought one of the very first ones and crashed it doing well over 120mph (don't remember exact speed) on the Audobahn (sp). It's a two seat car and if I remember correctly both passengers lived.
If your not familar with the way a Quattro drives they can be a litte scary the first time you actually get the wheels to break loose. Many Porsche 911 Twin Turbo drivers wreck there cars in the same manner. My brother-in-law used to work for a Porsche/Audi dealership (he did the body work), he's got a lot of great stories about all these super rich people who wreck their $100K+ Porsche's because they don't understand what to do when you drive them hard and fast. Working in Dallas in the Turtle Creek area you cannot go a block without seeing a Ferrari, Porsche, RR, Bentley etc, it's really funny to watch a guy try to park a Diablo in a parking space labled "Compact Only". I actually saw this two weeks ago.. I ran home to get my digital camera and the guy was gone when I came back!
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Originally posted by BD:
Dumped the ex-wife, got a 2001 Audi allroad. I must smile every time I get in it. Since I stopped flying planes in real life (tm), it's the closest I've been able to get.
Oh, except for landing a King Air at Atlanta Hartsfield last spring. That was cool!
:D
Nice Wagon! The only wagon (Avant) I like better is the RS4.
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Mr Ripley:
F1 cars are designed to disintegrate on impact but not all of the car is very fragile. For example the various body parts like the nose-cone are made of carbon which is not very good at absorbing impacts. But behind the nose-cone you have the supension linkage and wheels etc which will absorb the impact. Also, not every impact is a frontal one. For a side impact you have the radiators, again the wheels and various suspension plus also the engiine and gearbox which will absorb energy. All the various components like the suspension linkages, gearbox, engine, axles etc are not rigidly connected to the main chasis, on purpose, but the wheels are anchored to it to avoid them being flung around after a few marshalls died as a result of flying wheels.
Senna's was a freak accident and if you saw the pictures of his helmet, the only reason why he died was because the suspension arm entered the part inbetween his visor and the main body of his helmet, which has only a thin rubber seal in which to protect his head. A million to one chance.
I can also quote you accidents which happened due to massive deaccelaration due to non absorption of energy from the impact.
Mika Hakkinen at Suzuka in 1995 hit a barrier at approximately 150 mph. His car survived pretty much intact. Due to the massive deacceleration he suffered a massive blood clot and they actually performed brain surgery with him still strapped in his car in order to save his life.
Remember that our brains are surrounded by cerebal liquid so if you are travelling 60 mph and suddenly stop, your brain will smash into your skull at 60 mph, hence a blood clot.
Also, I don't know if you've ever been involved in a car accident, but even if it's not fatal, you can still suffer severe backlash and can damage your spine or neck if the crumple zones don't alleviate some of the energy. Children can also be injured at lower speeds by sudden deacceleration and not to mention pedastrians are more easily killed by rigid inflexible cars when hit.
Lazy: I'd much rather a leaky Jag then a Ford any day! As for OJ Simpson, that was more about the US justice system (which is also a bit fishy) rather then civil liberties, but take your gun laws...a shambles without a way out because of a constitution which was penned during the time of Butch Cassidy. I wouldn't be so proud of it. ;)
Maybe we did get Ruby Wax, but just look what you got in return. The Duchess of York!! HAHA! I'd take Ruby anyday! But if Ruby is typical of your teeth over there, then I think your gov should go easier on the flouride in water. :D
Said by Mox: Working in Dallas in the Turtle Creek area you cannot go a block without seeing a Ferrari, Porsche, RR, Bentley etc,
Hmmm...all European cars. Tells you a lot I think! :p
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Duck: I seriously doubt they cracked his skull open at the racetrack LOL!
What the main surgeon (Was his name Sid Watkins?) did do to Häkkinen was perform an airpassage opening through his throat while he was lying on the girder after being removed from his car. Häkkinen later said this operation caused him the biggest pain he ever had in his life, but thanked the doctors at the same time for saving his life.
He got a severe concussion because he hit his head to the side of the cockpit - reason why nowadays the F1 cars have soft cushions around the driver. It's not possible for a driver to reach the side of the cockpit with his head, but the impact stretched Häkkinens neck momentarily so much that he actually banged his head right beside the steering wheel. This shows clearly in the picture taken by the driver camera on impact.
If he would have hit the wall in a normal car with crumple zones at that speed, he would have been a crumpled bloody mass in an unreckognizable pile of metal.
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Originally posted by FlyingDuckSittingSwan:
Due to the massive deacceleration he suffered a massive blood clot and they actually performed brain surgery with him still strapped in his car in order to save his life.
:)
Lazs:
Originally posted by lazs1:
No... actually you ended up with FoMoCo.. Course that was a good thing since they rescued all your car compannies and banished the prince of darkness (joe lucas) and all the other british gremlins. Wow! A Jag that doesn't leak and starts up without calling a mechanic and... The headlights work.... at night even! A dependabel jag? Blasphemy! OJ?? well, better to let him go so that he can catch the one armed man than impose some kinda "knife control".. "ruby wax"??? Must be some kinda left over lend lease thing we pawned off on you guys... You don't really use that crap do ya?
lazs
That is a gem of a reply. :)
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fdss... so.. what you are saying is that you would rather push your jag than drive a ford? sorry, the point is moot... jags are fords. gun control? LOL gun control is for little girls and brits. I guess now tho that even the aussies have turned into wussy little gun control freaks (with a 40% increase in crime that came with that "enlightened" decision) The wax thing went right over my head but british dental care is as legendary as british automobile dependability and electrical system reliability.
lazs
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FlyingDuckSittingSwan (hereafter FDSS) said:
but take your gun laws...a shambles without a way out because of a constitution which was penned during the time of Butch Cassidy. I wouldn't be so proud of it.
end quote
Humm, T.J., G.W. and the boys do a little "writin an fightin " around 1776, Butch Cassidy develops the first cardless A.T.M. withdrawal system in the 1870's. Nope, not the same time.
Of course you "wouldn't be so proud of it", you don't know when it was done.
As to the "a shambles without a way out", here in Nevada (where Butch did some of his economic redistribution work) if you want a pistol (revolver or semi-auto) rifle, or shotgun you go to the shop, pick it out, wait for a phone "background check", pay the price and walk out with it or them. Not a "shamble" at all.
He he, my wife and I have a few Brit toys you can’t own as part of the proud history of your own country. Number I MkIII, Mk V Number IV Mk I....“Watson, do you have your service revolver...”
Full auto guns and destructive devices (cannon, explosive shells, etc. ) take a federal tax stamp (sorta like what helped lead to that 1776 thing) and that can take up to six months. The fun thing is that flamethrowers do not seem to be covered by Federal law, so check your State and local laws and flame away :D I have not found one yet.
The person with the highest kill count in Nevada used a licenced and registered weapon, a Lincoln. Humm, that may prove part of your car thing though.
Having had Brit (Jag, A.H. 100/6,) French ( I am too ashamed to name it, R) , Italian (FIAT, Alfa, Inoccenti sp?) German (V.W., Opel) Swedish and Japanese cars in addition to U.S. iron, I would get all but the French again, but not as my day in day out ride. None of above (except for one of three Volvos) had the ability to grind out 35,000 to 60,000 miles a year in tough conditions. One of the best I had was a ‘67 Olds Delmont 88 with the small engine (330 cu in, I think). It had 89,000 on the clock when I bought it for $150.00 and 65,000 when I sold it two years later for $600.00 to a guy who was going to restore it.
Nevada is bigger than most nations in Europe, it takes a lot of driving across empty land to get from place to place. It’s not that unusual to do a 100 mile drive for a dinner.
Current cars:
Olds, Toyota, and the fun toy, a ‘43 jeep and trailer.
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Yep, gotta go for the American iron for cars that last. You think some of your states are big MC 202? :D I drive 5-600km just to visit a buddy in the same province :) I do own 1 brit car, a 75 MGB, but it spends most of its time at the mechanics shop, and would not be driven out of town. My other cars, a 66 Corvair, 73 Dart and a 77 Vette are far more reliable, and in the case of the vette, fun to drive.
Oh yea, for all you euro's, if you want a real sports car, get a 2002 Z06 Vette. Costs half as much as a new Porche and out preforms it. Have a nice day :)
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Originally posted by newguy:
Oh yea, for all you euro's, if you want a real sports car, get a 2002 Z06 Vette. Costs half as much as a new Porche and out preforms it. Have a nice day :)
I like the Z06 but... a $25K WRX will beat it in a race that has many turns. I've been to Texas Motor Speedway (the inside track not the oval) and watched Quattro cars (mainly WRX's, A4's and S4) walk away from vettes and vipers.
Of course a straight line (no real skill here) race would have a much different outcome.
Some guy in Dallas has a WRX that runs 0-60mph in 4.5secs. Not bad for a 2 liter that cost less than $30K with mods.
I love the engine sound in the Z06!
[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: Mox ]
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Mox don't be silly. A WRX is not going to beat a Z06. Z06 has acceleration, braking, and cornering grip way beyond anything sold by Subaru or Audi. But WRX is going to beat any other $25k car.
If you saw WRX and Audis beating Vettes and Vipers then there was either some mods on the WRX and Audis or the Vette and Viper drivers were lousy. In production based racing series they actually put Vettes and Vipers in a different class from relatively slow cars like Subarus and Audis. 4WD is nothing special for racing on dry surfaces. Don't believe the marketing hype or fanboy websites.
FDS thanks for the laughs. Brain surgery LOL. Limey cars DOUBLE LOL!
[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Of course a straight line (no real skill here) race would have a much different outcome.
*chough* It takes alot of skill to launch a high hp/torque car at the strip sucessfully. Unlike most people think, you don't just press the gas to the floor when the light turns green.
And I agree w/ funk, driver makes as much if not more diffence in a race than how fast a car is.
As for me I can't afford any of them $$$ european imports, so I'll stick to camaros.
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*chough* It takes alot of skill to launch a high hp/torque car at the strip sucessfully. Unlike most people think, you don't just press the gas to the floor when the light turns green.
I saw a race on ESPN one time... with the half million $$$ Jaguars that aren't street legal in the states. Millionares would buy the cars and then sponser race car drivers to race them in a series. The drivers were big names from everywhere... F1, Indycar, NASCAR and some sedan racing. The winner of the heat I watched was normally racing for Budwieser.. in funnycars.
I've always liked the way British cars handled. I even owned a Jaguar XJ6 for a bit and loved that car. But there's an old joke: "Why don't the British make refridgerators? Because they can't figure out how to get them to leak oil."
I'd buy an 83-86 XJ6 again... but I'd put a GM fuel injected 350 crate motor in it to make it a real car.
The best all-around car I ever owned, though, was a 92 Nissan 300ZX. Good power, awesome handling and generally neato.
AKDejaVu
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Mr. Ripley! :mad:
Mika Hakkinen did not suffer a "severe concussion", rather he had a fractured skull and was in a coma for 4 days!! They did not add cushioned side support after Mika's accident, rather they added it after Senna's death a year before in 1994!
And laugh all you want but they did perform surgery while he was still strapped into the car! They actually drilled a hole in his head to allieviate the pressure from the blood clot.
Lazy...yes a Jag is far better then a Ford. Even a leaky Jag without headlights!! Ruby Wax is all teeth. I think your government exagerated on the flouride...cos she's got more teeth than a flipping hacksaw! Either that or they're just big!
Oh yea, for all you euro's, if you want a real sports car, get a 2002 Z06 Vette. Costs half as much as a new Porche and out preforms it.
Said by Newguy.
Yeah right. Is it faster then the Porsche Turbo 3? Or how about the 956? Why don;t we talk Italian sports cars? :rolleyes:
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They did not add cushioned side support after Mika's accident, rather they added it after Senna's death a year before in 1994!
After Senna's death? Why? I thought the major contributor to his death was a suspension component penetrating his visor.
As for the brain surgery comment... I'd really have to see an article on that. There really isn't much to tell you that someone needs to have a hole drilled in their head just by looking... though I sometimes think people have had holes drilled in their heads just by reading their typing.
AKDejaVu
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FDS ye are confused about Mika: http://www.hakkinen.net/aboutmika/articles/1998_firstaid.html (http://www.hakkinen.net/aboutmika/articles/1998_firstaid.html)
And ye don't know much about cars either. 956 was an early 1980's Porsche Group C car. Comparing it with a $40k street Chevy is a bit silly.
[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Found a pretty good description of the 95 accident:
[url]http://www.hakkinen.net/aboutmika/articles/2001_accident.html[/quote]
Makes specific mention of a traceotomy... no mention of drilling holes in skulls.
AKDejaVu
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956 was an early 1980's Porsche Group C
Groupe B car?
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[/QUOTE]
And ye don't know much about cars either. 956 was an early 1980's Porsche Group C car. Comparing it with a $40k street Chevy is a bit silly.
[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ][/QUOTE]
They made a production car version of the 956 in the mid-80's. And apart from that, the Porsche 911 Turbo 3 will wipe the floor with that American sports car which was mentioned. ;)
AKDejavu, I read about the drilling of a hole in the head somewhere else. Can't remember where. This is normal practice though in many accidents where there is a supsected blood clot. Also, the side protection was added after Senna's death because he was not the only one to have died, Roland Ratzenburger died in qualifying the day before and so they took radical steps for better head protection. They figured that Senna's death could have been avoided by higher side driver pods and while they made it higher, they cushioned it at the same time.
[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: FlyingDuckSittingSwan ]
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DejaVu the 959 was the Group B homologation car. There was also a show car called "Gruppe B" and a Paris-Dakar rally car that were similar.
956 was a Group C road racing prototype which won Le Mans. 956 and the derivative 962 also raced in Camel GT and IMSA GTP in the states.
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Sorry, got confused with the 959, not the 956. You do know that they made a road version of the 959, right, funked up? (http://www.autotrend.com/pic/9315.jpg)
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FDSS said:
Lazy...yes a Jag is far better then a Ford. Even a leaky Jag without headlights!!
end quote
Saying a leaky Jag is being redundant, sorta like saying chaotic Italian politics ;)
I bought my '64 Alfa spyder to replace the 100/6 A.H. I had. I got a more reliable car and one that the voltage matched 90% of the other cars on the road. I mean, why a positive earth electric system on the older Brit cars? Does it have anything to do with driving on the left or Wentworth (sp?) bolts? :)
The ability of American heavy iron (other than the cursed first smog/gas crisis years, '69 to 82) to handle heavy use is unsurpassed. Some of the rear drive Volvo's get close, but the ability to do 75mph up the Sierra Nevada mountains with four people and 350lbs of cargo is not there.
FDSS said: Why don’t we talk Italian sports cars?
Ok, I like them, after all my first name is Dino ;) They do however need more care and pampering than a Vette.
Newguy said:
You think some of your states are big MC 202? I drive 5-600km just to visit a buddy in the same province .
end quote
Yep, Reno to Los Vegas is 400+ miles, I drive to Elko NV to visit a friend (yes, I DO TOO have some :p ) and have dinner and spend the night, say 230 miles.
At least they use to give you bigger gallons untill ya bought into that metric stuff :D
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FDS Yes, road version = homologation version. For Group B you had to build 200 street cars in order to race. That way it was a "production car". They actually aren't much faster than the current Turbos.
Those current Porsche Turbos are nice, but if you compare them with a similarly priced US tuner version of the Corvette (Callaway, Lingenfelter, etc.) they don't come off so well. Only reason to buy a Porsche is if money is no object, you are looking to present a certain image, or you simply like subisdizing overpaid German auto workers.
[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Originally posted by funkedup:
FDS Yes, road version = homologation version. For Group B you had to build 200 street cars in order to race. That way it was a "production car". They actually aren't much faster than the current Turbos.
Those current Porsche Turbos are nice, but if you compare them with a similarly priced US tuner version of the Corvette (Callaway, Lingenfelter, etc.) they don't come off so well. Only reason to buy a Porsche is if money is no object, you are looking to present a certain image, or you simply like subisdizing overpaid German auto workers.
[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
Ha! are you saying the American car would outperform the Porsche 959?? I happen to remember reading about this car and even today not many supercars can outperform it. Here are some facts:
Horsepower: 450@6,500 rpm
Performance: 0-60mph: 3.6 seconds (US version: 3.5s) 0-100: 8.3 0-125: 12.7 0-140: 19.0 0-1/4 mile: 11.8s @119 mph
Top Speed: 198 mph
taken from here:
porsche 959 specs page (http://users.compaqnet.be/skyimages/porsche2/p959/p959uk.html)
The Chevy 2002 ZO6
0–60 mph, Man. Trans. (sec.) 3.9 (manual)
Top Speed (mph) 171
Taken from here:
Chev Z06 2002 specs page (http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/index_features.htm)
As you can see even though the Porsche is about 15 years older then the Chevy, it is still faster by nearly 30 mph at top speed and out accelerates it by .4 seconds from 0-60 mph. ;)
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Compare the price. :)
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LOL, I had a 68 chevy P/U that was breaking into the high 12's in the quarter mile. I had much less money in it than what either one of those factory hot rods would cost ya. But it sure could be a headache constantly working on that thing.
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How much does that porsche 959 cost again FDS? And how many did they make? I mean we might as well bring up the C-R5! For the price and performance, the Z06 gets my money, but I am very biased :)
edit: that is not the top speed of a Z06. I'll get back to you on that.
[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: newguy ]
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Zzzzzzz bench racers. When was the last time you saw a 959 at the track? Hell, when was the last time you SAW a 959?
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I just wanted to say I am becoming a Lazs disciple. It's worth the entry price just to read his retorts. :D
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I drive a 1984 Buick Regal T-Type. That's like a Grand National with Silver paint. Bought it new and thinking about rebuilding it now after 165,000 miles. It's all the car I will ever need.
The engine was once described as a great little engine, looking for a great little car. :D
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The bottom line is...you Yanks aren't good at building sportscars. Admit it! :p
Example...Dodge Viper.
Dodge Viper designer 1: "What size shall we make the engine?"
Dodge Viper designer 2: "Stuff that, let's just use this big bastard lorry engine we have lying around"
Dodge Viper designer 1: "Wont that affect handling?"
Dodge Viper designer 2: "Yes, but there aren't many sharp bends in the US, so we can get away with it
And so they put in this silly 8 litre engine. Try driving that thing fast up a mountain! Oh, nice sound though. :rolleyes:
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Land Rover Assembly line Tech #1: I say old chap, I need to use the Lavatory. I sense a movement coming on.
Land Rover Assembly line Tech #2: Oh dear, the Lavatory is inoperable. Just do it in the engine block here.
Land Rover Assembly line Tech #1: What an ingenious idea. Noone will ever know!
Seems Land Rover has taken the place of Jaguar as the "elite" car name producing junk cars. Here's an example:
http://www.lrx.com/forum/messages/365.html (http://www.lrx.com/forum/messages/365.html)
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That's not a very good link, but I'll give you a fer instance. I'm in the Autobody business. We repair all types of late-model wrecks. We've repaired many sport-utes. We had a late model Land Rover Discovery in here recently hit in the front. I was really surprised at the sorry quality of just about everything. Interior Trim, Body panel fit and finish is a joke. It's a sport-ute you say? I don't care, everybody elses body panels fit these days. The Toyota Land Cruiser and many US models have got it all over any Land Rover. They're like a 4-wheel drive version of an 80's Jaguar.
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Sheesh... A Calloway corvette or roush or saleen mustang are still half the price of the exotics and will give every one of em a run for their money if not outright trounce em.
Dino.. Austin Healey's are great cars... Have a 100 4. You do have to make several "slight" modifications to them tho.
lazs
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Originally posted by hblair:
That's not a very good link, but I'll give you a fer instance. I'm in the Autobody business. We repair all types of late-model wrecks. We've repaired many sport-utes. We had a late model Land Rover Discovery in here recently hit in the front. I was really surprised at the sorry quality of just about everything. Interior Trim, Body panel fit and finish is a joke. It's a sport-ute you say? I don't care, everybody elses body panels fit these days. The Toyota Land Cruiser and many US models have got it all over any Land Rover. They're like a 4-wheel drive version of an 80's Jaguar.
Why don't we talk about the Range Rover...old chap? ;)
Also, why do most police forces in the world use a land rover? Aha! A Land Rover isn't built for comfort...it's built for ruggedness. It leaks when it rains? Ah diddums! The makers of Land Rover expected their clients to be wearing some cammo and wellys while driving their rugged machine not a tuxedo!
HBlair, have you thought that maybe the panels wouldn't fit because the chasis maybe needed to be straightened on a jig? Just maybe...
[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: FlyingDuckSittingSwan ]
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FDSS, just curious, is there anything about which you are not an expert? HBlair works in the family business, as in he grew up doing what he is doing now. I'm sure he thought of alignment problems on a wreck...
You must be at least 50 years-old, given the huge depth of experiences you have. :p
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Originally posted by FlyingDuckSittingSwan:
HBlair, have you thought that maybe the panels wouldn't fit because the chasis maybe needed to be straightened on a jig? Just maybe...
Jig? lol. Get with the program. Bench-type racks are the way to go these days. And yeah the Land Dog was within specs, the sheet metal just isn't stamped well. Are the Discovery's engines that go bad all the time "rugged"? :)
[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: hblair ]
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Yep, the brits took a perfectly good American V8, The '63 215 inch Buick, and turned it into a piece of crap land rover motor.
lazs
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I know everything, cos I'm the king of the world! :cool:
Funny how you yanks are ignoring the issue...can you say Range Rover?
If you had to choose between a Jeep Grand Cherokee or a Range Rover, which one would it be?
Yep, everyone would choose the Range. Status symbol, build quality, off-road ability nothing beats it. ADMIT IT!
Fact remains that you Americans buy our European cars, but apart from one or two models, we don't really have yankmobils over here. :p
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You have Jaguars don't you?
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LOL hblair. They also pay double for corvettes and Harleys cause they feel that they deserve to be punished by their governments. Heck, we can buy one of their cars cheaper than they can.
lazs
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Tyler Durden says:
Your not your job.
Your not how much money you have in your walet.
Your not your shreckin kahkis.
Your not a unuiqe and individual snowflake.
This has been a PSA from Tyler Durden.
"the more you know"
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You know why the Brits dont make computers?
They couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil.
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Got a really, really rich brother-in-law. He never hunted till he "joined" the family but he caught it bad and now he's a devout pheasant chaser.
Of course, being rich, nothing would do except that he dress, equip and shoot "like an English Gentleman". Green wellies, side-by-side and of course... a Range Rover.
Actually, two of them. He had the full-size one and the Defender 90 which is the bare-bones kind of military style.
(He got the Labrador Retriever too... but at least that's one English "imported" export that actually lives up to its billing and can do its job.)
Well, in the Midwest you aren't walking in a bog all the time, so the wellies just make your feet sweat; they don't breathe like a Gore-Tex boot. Since it gets truly cold on the Great Plains in winter, your feet are soon frigid. He dumped the wellies for a good Cabela's Gore-Tex boot.
Side-by-side? Nice gun. Didn't fit him, never could hit anything with it, but, hey, it looked cool. Finally got tired of the ribbing he was taking and put it in the closet. He shoots a Remington 11-87 REAL WELL though.. it fits him.
Range Rover? Well, we do family hunts. Four to six gunners and 3-4 Labs. I had an old Chevy Suburban 4x4 and he had his Range Rover.... well, he had it when it wasn't in the shop for engine, transimission, electrical or heater/AC repairs.
He drove the Defender one hunting season. Barely held two people, one dog. Was so loud at speed that you couldn't carry on a conversation or hear a radio. Rode like a cement wagon. He dumped that off in a trade for his wife's BMW at the end of the season.
Anyway, all of us (people, dogs, guns and lunch) could load into the Suburban and go hunting.
Or, he could take himself and ONE other gunner and ONE lab (because putting a kennel in a RR requires folding down the back seat and sticking it in sideways). Only one kennel would fit and that one wiped out the back seat.
He always took the RR anyway, I guess to impress the farmers we asked for permission to hunt. :rolleyes: I think a lot of our turndowns were because of that RR. In short, in all kinds of weather, he never went anywhere the old Suburban couldn't follow... or lead.
He finally got that crap out of his system. I think it was after the last $1000 repair to the RR air conditioner that still blew spit-warm air at you after it was fixed. Not a good deal when you're driving to your big meeting in your $1000 suit and it's 110 degrees in Nebraska during the summer. ;)
Anyway, his last two vehicles have been full-house 4x4 Suburbans. They work. Well. Room for all the hunters, dogs and guns. They're half the price of the RR's.
To his credit, proud as he is, he admits both the RR's were piss-poor vehicles.
But hey... RR's impress some people.
:D
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Originally posted by FlyingDuckSittingSwan:
I know everything, cos I'm the king of the world! :cool:
Funny how you yanks are ignoring the issue...can you say Range Rover?
If you had to choose between a Jeep Grand Cherokee or a Range Rover, which one would it be?
Yep, everyone would choose the Range. Status symbol, build quality, off-road ability nothing beats it. ADMIT IT!
Fact remains that you Americans buy our European cars, but apart from one or two models, we don't really have yankmobils over here. :p
Neither they are both a piece of crap. And to answer your next question who has cheaper gas prices? ;)
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I don't think you guys are getting the whole picture.
For one thing, Toad, the Defender 90 is not a Range Rover, but rather a Land Rover. BIG difference! The Range Rover is the plush, expensive, big, off-roader. If you have ever driven inside a Range Rover, you'll find it's quiet and refined and very plush with supple leather (not the cheap imitation leather you find on Cadilacs) hand stitched and REAL, yes REAL wood (from trees, not the plastic type found on your cadilacs) panneling. It also starts from 40,000 pounds (60,000 dollars for you people) and goes anywhere up to over 100,000 dollars easy. :cool:
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Used to have a ex/navy 6x6 duece and a half, on the road in MA, for cordwood/dockspile business. Talk about some fun on the streets.
Would carry most anything, go most anywhere. :cool:
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Maybe 10 years ago there was a test-drive story in a technical-magazine I read.
With Ferraris, Porsches etc there was also one American car: Camaro with Keith Black 500cid :D
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Originally posted by Sachs:
Neither they are both a piece of crap. And to answer your next question who has cheaper gas prices? ;)
Easy to have cheap "gas" prices when you pull out of the Kyoto Agreement. I think Britain should pull out too and put "gas" prices to the same as a pint of milk. But then again, there wouldn't be much of the planet left, would there? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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yep suckingswan... I think we ought to take away gasoline from the brits to save the planet... Or, so that you understand it better... for your own good.
Excellent story toad. Just one in thousands like it. anyone recall the rover sedan? LOL!
Keith Black don't even have to get involved... Calloway or Roush can make more cars than any British company. Course... they would cost 300,000 thousand in limey land... bout 60k here.
Can you guys please build some more 54-56 Austin Healey bodies tho?
lazs
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I choose to drive junkers and economy cars because:
A) I'm cheap, and;
B) I can't stand the thought of getting only 12mpg.
I can easily afford better, but that would be wasteful, right FDSS? And the planet does need saving and all. So... what position are you espousing now? You seemed to be "We Brits have all the best luxury stuff you guys only wish you could have" one moment, and now you are "You damn Americans don't care about the planet enough to stay in the Kyoto agreement". Seems to be opposite ends of the spectrum to me.
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Originally posted by Kieran:
I choose to drive junkers and economy cars because:
A) I'm cheap, and;
B) I can't stand the thought of getting only 12mpg.
I can easily afford better, but that would be wasteful, right FDSS? And the planet does need saving and all. So... what position are you espousing now? You seemed to be "We Brits have all the best luxury stuff you guys only wish you could have" one moment, and now you are "You damn Americans don't care about the planet enough to stay in the Kyoto agreement". Seems to be opposite ends of the spectrum to me.
Kieran, who said anything about a Range Rover not be fuel efficient even though it's big and plush? In Europe we have discovered how to make even big engined cars give a very reasonable return when it comes miles for your litre. Actually there hardly any difference between a European 2.5 litre V6 to a 1.8 litre 4 cylinder in-line. In Europe we have such a thing as research and development. We don't just stick an 8 litre lorry engine into our sports cars to make it go fast! :rolleyes:
I don't think you pulling out of the Kyoto agreement will get you people thinking "America doesn't care about teh planet". Considering America is the biggest polluter in the whole world I think people consider you more "selfish" than anything else. It's a bit like the guy who uses the toilet and never flushes the water. You pollute, we here in Europe suffer floods every year from your pollution. Thanks!
If that's the case, then don't complain when people all over the world look at you funny. :mad:
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Originally posted by Gadfly:
You know why the Brits dont make computers?
They couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil.
LOL!!!
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Originally posted by Sox62:
LOL!!!
Actually we do. Gateway.
But if you're talking about components, fair enough.
Otherwise even I can build a computer.
:rolleyes:
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Put up the numbers, oh wise one. What is the mpg?
Question: how many countries have actually signed the Kyoto agreement? Is Britain one of them?
You mention not seeing any American cars on your roads, and use your supposed superior SUV's as an example- why don't I see the superior British technology in my genre of choice, economy cars? For some reason I can't think of one British car, worthy or unworthy, in that class.
For a guy that hates arrogance so much, you sure have loads. Do you get up every morning, look in the mirror and say, "I hate you!"? ;)
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You can keep your Porsche 9xx or whatever... and keep your Ferrari/Lotus/Lamborghini/Eurotrash exotics. The only thing I want that's even remotely European was based on a British Chasis... but taken to the states and given a real engine:
427 SC Cobra. There's been nothing better for over 35 years.
AKDejaVu
[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: AKDejaVu ]
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Oh, he had the FABULOUS Range Rover all right. Even in "standard" British green.
I rode in it. I drove it. I was unimpressed. It's pretty small inside when you stick a couple of 6'2" guys in it, a labrador in a kennel and couple of shotguns.
Of course, he didn't drive it all the time. It was in the shop an awful lot trying to get the heater, air conditioner and transmission to work correctly.
But what do you expect for 40,000 pounds, right? His was a mid-line as I recall.. somewhere just over $65K.
Fffffffffft! I'll take two new Suburbans instead, please, for the same money.
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Wow... deja actually has good taste in something! They do still make the ace body tho. Little limey fellows with bad teeth spend their dickensonian work days hunched over an english wheel turning out a dozen or so pretty little ac bodies every year to send over here where we turn em into cars.
Having the interior done in my Healey, the upholsterer commented... I hate redoing British stuff.. It's all done by hand.. Them guys must have NO home life.
Rover? "big engine" LOL it has a '63 buick 215 inch motor in it with crappy fuel injection. Round these parts, 215 inches is considered a mini van motor.
lazs
[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: lazs1 ]
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Toad, that reminds me of my uncle. He has, for the past 40 years, held contracts to keep the powerlines out in Way West Texas clear of brush. He used Jeeps from the 50s to the 60s, but would only get a couple of years(50,000 miles or less) out of them before they were junk.
He began buying Broncos when they came out, and they lasted 5+ years. In fact, his "ranch truck"(if you know what that is) is a 74 bronco with about 350,000 miles on it. Still runs great, looks good and he has never been stranded by it.
p.s-Gateway's are assembled in Ireland or where-ever, but they are designed and the components are built elsewhere(and a Gateway barely meets the criteria by which I judge a computer, anyway).
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Which car was James Dean (an American icon) driving when he fubar'ed?
American?
Ha, yeah right.
Can we say PORSCHE?
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
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...and had it been American-made, he'd still be alive today. ;)
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Tell that to the people who bought a Ford Explorer. ;)
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Tell that to the people who bought a Ford Explorer with FIRESTONE tires on it... a tire company owned by BRIDGESTONE, I believe...
which is a JAPANESE tire company.
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My bike needs oil and a new rear tire. I cannot afford either.
Quit yer whining.
:D
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You'd think a company like Ford would test the tyres (yes, it's spelt with a Y) they were using. By the way, I constantly hear that the Ford Explorer is a fake off-roader and is about as comfortable as riding bare arsed on a camel. So how come you Americans like it so much. Over here you can pick up a nearly new explorer for less then a chinese take away. :confused:
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Ford Explorer owner here. Very comfortable ride. We take it on long trips back to Montana quite a bit, and use it off-road as well. I love Explorers. Almost bought a new one last week, but good judgement kept me holding onto our 99' model (I wanted a bigger engine, wife talked us out of it)
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I just got my VW Bettle,,,,,,,,,and I just love it,,,,,,,,although im 6`7",but it is pretty roomy,,without passengers :D.
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FDSS, I bet your one of those kiddies that put a trash can sized muffler on your little lupo that makes it sound like my gas-powered weedeater. I bet you think it makes it go faster too. :rolleyes: LOL
All your so-called R&D does is stress those little moped engines to the breaking point which makes them useless in 2 yrs. You have to admit that sometimes there is just no substitute for Cubic Inches.
Small Blocks for small errr uh...minds. :D
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Originally posted by AcId:
FDSS, I bet your one of those kiddies that put a trash can sized muffler on your little lupo that makes it sound like my gas-powered weedeater. I bet you think it makes it go faster too. :rolleyes: LOL
All your so-called R&D does is stress those little moped engines to the breaking point which makes them useless in 2 yrs. You have to admit that sometimes there is just no substitute for Cubic Inches.
Small Blocks for small errr uh...minds. :D
Large cubic inches to substitute small penile inches, more like. :p
Ripsnort, I meant no offense by what I said. I'm sure some versions of the Explorer are very comfortable. ;)