Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: artik on November 15, 2003, 04:21:11 AM
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I'd like to put some negative notes about FesterMA.
The base are close you do not need spend a lot of time to find action but... all action is compressed between the friendly and enemy fields - and what heppens - instead of separate fights of 3-6 planes we get one continious big fight between friendly and enemy bases - a huge FURBALL.
This furball continious at all alt from 0k to 15-20k - through all the front between countries in width of 10-15 miles (the distance between bases).
And that is most of gameplay feachers at FesterMA
- It is good for all players that like enter furball kill 1-2 planes and die, the players who not care to survive. But it is not good for old players that want to have a fun but like to return to their bases, maybe disangage from 5-6 planes that try to catch you, or players who use winging tactics - FesterMA leaves no option for tactical engage.
- It is good for all turnfighters - but furballing is abolutly disaster for all energy fighters like P-51D, Bf109G-10 or Fw190D-9. Because the main goal of this planes is energy and when the fight continue from 0 to 20k it is not easy to get an advatage.
- Buff pilots have to get to extreemy high alt to bomb otherwise they enter big furball and die in few minutes
- Dive bombers and strike planes - have almost no chance to get to the target without being engaged by other plane - and dropping their ord.
- Instead of normal gameplay at MA with tactcal feachers - separate flight, bomb runs and.... furballs too - it is redused to furball only - and time to time separet fights.
Is FesterMA so good?
Looks like first positive replayes we get from dweeb players that what furballs only.
Your opinion?
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The almighty furballers (ppl with ADD) will be around any moment to tell you that limiting gameplay is okay as long as it's not thiers that's being limited.
That's about the only content in thier posts. ever.
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dunno what you mean about not being able to carry out textbook jabo runs, or being able to leave the furball safely, or any of the rest.
"but furballing is abolutly disaster for all energy fighters like P-51D, Bf109G-10 or Fw190D-9" : completely opposite to my impression.
blunt opinion is you probably aren't very good at any of what you mention and need to practice. It's not the map's fault, and what's wrong with 300 players having fun by the only map that does what this one does?
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Yes this fast planes can exit fight but... if furball continious from 20k to the dack - it is not their enviormant. You can sucsess but....
Yes you can enter furball make 1-2 kills and exit - slash tactics but when furbalis very wide it is problem.....
The main problem of FesterMA that is furballing only - and does not gives other types of gameplay. Someone has fun but others....
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artik has
13 Kills
13 Deaths
Model type Kills In Kills Of
A-20G 0 0
A6M2 0 0
A6M5b 0 0
Ar 234 0 0
B-17G 0 0
B-26B 0 0
B5N2 0 0
Bf 109E-4 0 0
Bf 109F-4 0 0
Bf 109G-10 5 0
Bf 109G-2 0 1
Bf 109G-6 0 0
Bf 110C-4b 0 1
Bf 110G-2 0 0
Boston III 0 0
C-47A 0 0
C.202 0 0
C.205 0 0
Chute 0 0
D3A1 0 0
F4F-4 0 0
F4U-1 0 0
F4U-1C 0 0
F4U-1D 0 0
F4U-4 0 0
F6F-5 0 1
FM2 0 0
Fw 190A-5 0 0
Fw 190A-8 0 0
Fw 190D-9 0 0
Fw 190F-8 0 0
Gunner 0 0
Hurricane IIC 0 0
Hurricane IID 0 0
Hurricane Mk I 0 0
Il-2 4 0
Ju 87D-3 0 0
Ju 88 0 3
Ki-61 0 0
Ki-67 0 0
La-5FN 0 0
La-7 2 0
Lancaster III 0 0
LVTA2 0 0
LVTA4 0 0
M-16 0 0
M-3 0 1
M-8 0 0
Me 163B 0 0
Me 262 0 0
Mosquito Mk VI 1 1
N1K2 0 0
Ostwind 0 2
P-38L 0 0
P-40B 0 0
P-40E 0 0
P-47-D25 0 0
P-47-D30 0 0
P-47D-11 0 0
P-51B 0 0
P-51D 0 0
Panzer IV H 0 1
PT Boat 0 1
SBD-5 0 0
SeaFire 0 0
Ship Gunner 1 0
Spitfire Mk I 0 0
Spitfire Mk IX 0 1
Spitfire Mk XIV 0 0
Spitfire V 0 0
Ta 152H 0 0
TBM-3 0 0
Tempest 0 0
Tiger I 0 0
Typhoon IB 0 0
Yak-9T 0 0
Yak-9U 0 0
Model type Killed By Died In
A-20G 0 0
A6M2 0 0
A6M5b 0 0
Ar 234 0 0
B-17G 0 0
B-26B 2 0
B5N2 0 0
Bf 109E-4 0 0
Bf 109F-4 0 0
Bf 109G-10 0 4
Bf 109G-2 0 0
Bf 109G-6 0 0
Bf 110C-4b 0 0
Bf 110G-2 0 0
Boston III 0 0
C-47A 0 0
C.202 0 0
C.205 0 0
Chute 0 0
D3A1 0 0
F4F-4 0 0
F4U-1 0 0
F4U-1C 0 0
F4U-1D 0 2
F4U-4 0 0
F6F-5 0 0
FM2 0 0
Fw 190A-5 0 0
Fw 190A-8 1 0
Fw 190D-9 1 0
Fw 190F-8 0 0
Gunner 0 0
Hurricane IIC 0 0
Hurricane IID 0 0
Hurricane Mk I 0 0
Il-2 0 2
Ju 87D-3 0 0
Ju 88 0 0
Ki-61 0 0
Ki-67 0 0
La-5FN 0 0
La-7 1 0
Lancaster III 0 0
LVTA2 0 0
LVTA4 0 0
M-16 0 0
M-3 0 0
M-8 0 0
Me 163B 0 0
Me 262 0 0
Mosquito Mk VI 0 2
N1K2 0 0
Ostwind 2 0
P-38L 0 1
P-40B 0 0
P-40E 0 0
P-47-D25 0 0
P-47-D30 0 0
P-47D-11 0 0
P-51B 1 0
P-51D 0 1
Panzer IV H 1 0
PT Boat 0 1
SBD-5 0 0
SeaFire 0 0
Ship Gunner 1 0
Spitfire Mk I 0 0
Spitfire Mk IX 3 0
Spitfire Mk XIV 0 0
Spitfire V 0 0
Ta 152H 0 0
TBM-3 0 0
Tempest 0 0
Tiger I 0 0
Typhoon IB 0 0
Yak-9T 0 0
Yak-9U 0 0
artik has not played in bombers or gvs or jabos
in fact artik didnt fly bombers or gvs much last tour or the tour before that.
artik flies the 109g10... poorly.
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FesterMA is a fun map.
But it does get old, real quick. I like flying various missions in various plane types with my squaddies, responding to various situations happening in MA.
But I think it's a good map. Not my favorite, not very favorable personally, but since other people who hate the maps which I like, endures it without making people like me miserable, I'll endure FesMA with good heart, in turn - unlike some guys who come to the boards and starts crying the moment there's a map they don't like running in MA. :D
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first you get statistics about last few days - and take a look I do not fly 109g10 only - even I like it very much:
kills in:
Bf 109G-10 5
Il-2 4
La-7 2
Ship Gunner 1
Mosquito Mk VI 1
as you can see 4 Il-2 ;)
anyway - I like do some strikes or bomb runs in Ardo - BTW take a look I get kill in ardo last tour ;)
Yes I mostly fighter pilot, strike pilot a little and fly not much in bombers - but like to take them to HQ.
But I do not like furballs only - and that is what your terrain brings
and now look this:
Last tour at CT:
killed in the last setup
P-40E 12 0
pervious setup - didn't fy too much.
Spitfire Mk XIV 1 0
died in
P-40E 0 5
So..... I'm not the best pilot - I must tell. But I like to fly and fight not to furball.
You like the map you build - I do not like it.
So lets not take personal information about each other. It is not a secrat that I'm not good pilot. But still sitting in my 109G10 and like to fight - not to make furballs
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Artik,
try fighting in a different part of the map.
See, the reason you get massive furballs in the middle bit is due to, as you say, fields being very close together and because whoever owns A21 (the hub field in the middle) has a 10k alt advantage on everyone else. A21 is usually on the edge of two fronts so whichever side owns it will be seen coming in at 20k, opposing sides respond and pretty soon it developes into a 0-20k furball.
So?
Take A74 last night, MASSIVE furball going on as you say. Cav and I went over there to lend a hand and came out to land again (in P51Ds with 14 kills between us). The bish field 10 miles south had a single GV attacking it, no furball at all just me in a HogC and a newb in an osty and the single knight who kept flying over to try and pork the fuel :D. I had fun.
The fields on the edges of the terrain can also hardly be called furball fields, they're all in a straight line almost, no fields on the edges to outflank with. If you wanna do something other than cherrypick the massive furballs then try flying somewhere else.
The only complaint about Festerma I have is that HTC havn't put the latest revision up in the MA yet and we're still fighting on an old one. Oh and Cit, for Xmas can you make a white terrain set and rename the map Festermas?
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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S! all
I think fester's map is a good map. The map has more bases to chose from than say... Mindanowww. these hugh maps are my favorites, trinity, pizza, fester etc... me personally i dont like flying into a hugh furball and i try to avoid them. festers map is big enough to shop around and pick your fights which i find hard to do on the smaller maps.
Also i think one reson for the furball in the middle is because whenever i log on to the game its at a base at the middle and i think that lots just go ahead and up there and start fighting. no biggie. anyway if you dont want furballs, just fly to a base no ones at. someone will come and greet you i'm sure. :D
just my 2 cents
S!
David (Daddy Rabit) Jester
Tactical Officer
99TH ASTAG
Swift to Avenge
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Originally posted by Rutilant
The almighty furballers (ppl with ADD) will be around any moment to tell you that limiting gameplay is okay as long as it's not thiers that's being limited.
That's about the only content in thier posts. ever.
Actually in the last month the board has been very quiet regarding maps.
The furballers have been reasonably happy with the current rotation<>.
As usuall Rut yur blowing smoke just to see if anyone will pay attention to yu
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Swoop thank you for suggestion.. maybe you right.
I'll check this out...
Anyway this week I fly mostly at CT. Excelent setup
P40E, Hurri1 vs 109E and 202
I enjoy it more...
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Artik...I fail to see the problem for those seeking the energy fight. Those massive furballs provide a chaotic environment. SA overload, not E advantage should be your weapon on Fester.
Good map.
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Originally posted by Hornet
Artik...I fail to see the problem for those seeking the energy fight. Those massive furballs provide a chaotic environment. SA overload, not E advantage should be your weapon on Fester.
Good map.
Yes your E is advantage but when you start working no your target you loose it in in big furball it is not hard to find enemies that you do not see in the begining and after few minutes you see the with higher E.
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When did the big furball start? guess I missed it. Actually I only flew for about 45 minutes yesterday, helping to take bases. We captured 5-6 bases in quick succession and it was a lot of fun.
I do agree that Festerma provides all the ingredients for some massive furballing, but you really don't have to if you don't want.
Personally, after suffering through 2 rotations of the hell that is BigIsles, I NEED some fast action and cheap thrills:aok
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Originally posted by sax
Actually in the last month the board has been very quiet regarding maps.
The furballers have been reasonably happy with the current rotation<>.
As usuall Rut yur blowing smoke just to see if anyone will pay attention to yu
:eek:
Me? Blowing smoke?
You say that like the Elite Furballer Corps wouldn't do exactly what i said they would.
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You know, I've been around a couple years now, and some things never change.
We always have posts about maps..."I don't like this...I dont like that..I want this changed".
We currently have maps that cater to just about everyones tastes here.
Festers map caters a little more closely to those who prefer to furball.
Big Isles, Trinity and Pizza are a little better for the strat people.
Some like the small maps (uterus etc.)
One thing is pretty much guaranteed. They all will see use and all are rotated through. Pretty fair don't you think?
About the only thing I can see that is justified to whine about are bugs with the maps. In fact that isn't really a whine at all is it?
I vote for less whining and more flying.
<> and thanks to ALL the people who make maps for us. They get nothing in return for their efforts and it provides us with so many options.
cheers,
RTR
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*Cracks open lawnchair...starts popping popcorn*
We ain't had one of these in a while....
Let's see....who has yet to show up...
Beelte...Lazs...hmmm..
Well, it's early...
(PS. I've surrendered my opinion on gameplay until I come back from my AH vacation)
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Originally posted by Citabria
artik flies the 109g10... poorly.
Making a personal attack on artik is bad form. He brings up relevant criticisms whether you agree with them or not.
Fester has created a very nice map.
A lower base density would improve it imo.
My first impression of Festers Map is that it has designed out Strat. Having 5 bases within a 25 mile radius is essentially 1 large base, impossible to restrict fuel, ammo, barracks, etc. Constant furball generators.
Gangbanging a base with spits, nikis and lots of quick run goons was the most popular tactic when I played.
Now there are 3,4 or 5 friendly bases within 25 miles of an enemy base.
Lowering the average to 2 friendly bases within 25 miles (of an enemy base) would still create Fester's Furball without negating strat.
Regardless of your opinions on Fester's work, you must applaud the thought, effort and attempt at making the MA a better place for all.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
:eek:
Me? Blowing smoke?
You say that like the Elite Furballer Corps wouldn't do exactly what i said they would.
Nope:) Wrong again Rut. I don't attack anyones game play style.
However I will defend against you attacking it unless you have something valid to say
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To answer your big red bold question, yes it is.
As a 190 pilot (not so much this tour though), FesterMA is probably my favorite map. The e-fighter "disaster" you reference couldn't be farther from the truth. Those furballs are a cherry picker's dream. If you can't do well with a boom and zoomer on FesterMA, you should examine your flying style and skill before blaming it on the map.
The best thing about FesterMA is that on a full tank of gas, you can easily fly to 3 or so enemy bases and still do some fighting. You don't have to worry so much about the fight winding down before you get there, leaving you with a full ammo load and an empty tank of gas.
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:rofl
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There's no map where cherry picking, gang-banging, vulching and overall dweebery is easier to accomplish. None.
MiniD
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In other words, he is not happy unless he is one on one with a 5k advantage in a p51 against a hurricane. If there are 2 hurricanes working together to try and drag him down, well that's a furball and not fair.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
To answer your big red bold question, yes it is.
As a 190 pilot (not so much this tour though), FesterMA is probably my favorite map. The e-fighter "disaster" you reference couldn't be farther from the truth. Those furballs are a cherry picker's dream. If you can't do well with a boom and zoomer on FesterMA, you should examine your flying style and skill before blaming it on the map.
The best thing about FesterMA is that on a full tank of gas, you can easily fly to 3 or so enemy bases and still do some fighting. You don't have to worry so much about the fight winding down before you get there, leaving you with a full ammo load and an empty tank of gas.
My question is...... where are these so called furballs? All I have seen is this horde against a few or one base over the reverse of that. Head on N1ks or lala7s at 3 K aint my cup of tea.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
My question is...... where are these so called furballs? All I have seen is this horde against a few or one base over the reverse of that. Head on N1ks or lala7s at 3 K aint my cup of tea.
They're there, and plentiful. I fly Knit, so maybe that has something to do with it.
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"It is good for all turnfighters - but furballing is abolutly disaster for all energy fighters like P-51D, Bf109G-10 or Fw190D-9."
Now, I'm going to be perfectly blunt here. You're an idiot.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
They're there, and plentiful. I fly Knit, so maybe that has something to do with it.
Yea, that excuses you from any rational thought>:rolleyes:
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there is nothing wrong with Festers map.
It is different and that is GOOD:aok
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Yea, that excuses you from any rational thought>:rolleyes:
Ooh, you got me! Your wit is too much. Now use it to go find a fight, you whining tard.
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Originally posted by sax
Nope:) Wrong again Rut. I don't attack anyones game play style.
However I will defend against you attacking it unless you have something valid to say
I'm not attacking anything, it's just that most furballers have a holier than thou attitude to anyone who dares pick up a bomb or play the strat game.
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Last time festerma came up, I had no trouble doing quite well in the F4U. The high speed energy fighters not only thrive in a furball, it's the easiest place for them to get kills.
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Originally posted by artik
I'd like to put some negative notes about FesterMA.
The base are close you do not need spend a lot of time to find action but... all action is compressed between the friendly and enemy fields - and what heppens - instead of separate fights of 3-6 planes we get one continious big fight between friendly and enemy bases - a huge FURBALL.
This furball continious at all alt from 0k to 15-20k - through all the front between countries in width of 10-15 miles (the distance between bases).
And that is most of gameplay feachers at FesterMA
- It is good for all players that like enter furball kill 1-2 planes and die, the players who not care to survive. But it is not good for old players that want to have a fun but like to return to their bases, maybe disangage from 5-6 planes that try to catch you, or players who use winging tactics - FesterMA leaves no option for tactical engage.
- It is good for all turnfighters - but furballing is abolutly disaster for all energy fighters like P-51D, Bf109G-10 or Fw190D-9. Because the main goal of this planes is energy and when the fight continue from 0 to 20k it is not easy to get an advatage.
- Buff pilots have to get to extreemy high alt to bomb otherwise they enter big furball and die in few minutes
- Dive bombers and strike planes - have almost no chance to get to the target without being engaged by other plane - and dropping their ord.
- Instead of normal gameplay at MA with tactcal feachers - separate flight, bomb runs and.... furballs too - it is redused to furball only - and time to time separet fights.
Is FesterMA so good?
Looks like first positive replayes we get from dweeb players that what furballs only.
Your opinion? [/B][/SIZE]
Well... I prefer furballs because I consider AH to be an aircombat simulation and whatever else is an add on to this feature. Sooo, if HTC decides to add the submarines to AH, I would like to see the I-400, Japanese Submarine Carrier, added.
Anyway... going back to your question. As it was mentioned, you can dismiss my opinion that I am more in favor of furballs, but in my opinion, the FesterMA offers the best balance of what the masses want. As it was mentioned, try different parts of the map. It offers different types of fighting.
My favorite maps in order and why...
Mindanao and FesterMA - lots of furballs to go around, plus it offers different types of fighting
NDIsles and Baltic - like the Mindanao and FesterMA I guess, but one side gets overrun rather too easily. On Mindanao I don't care cuz we all know this. We just have say.... Ok its my turn to be bombed the hell out...
MickeyMouse - good for GV fights.
Trinity and BigIsles - Just better than the Pizza
Pizza - It was a good attempt, but on this map I am bombing or attacking towns too often. It is like fighting a computer controlled object like an ack, therefore not much different from fighting an offline game. Definitely not my style. And the colors... not too good for me.
In my opinion, what's bad for gameplay is land grabbing and the reset. Because these skew the number of players to one side too much. Even the perk point multiplier is not working too well now because people want to see these happen (the objective of their play) When AH started, the small maps were enough because, there were a lot less people online and resets rarely happened. We would go for weeks without having a reset. Now it is too often... Bigger Maps were thought to be the solution but obviously the concept of the game had to be thought out and be more refined before we could achieve a better map. Pizza, Trinity and BigIsles were all these attempts and contributed for the better. FesterMA is the best Big size map there is. No doubt.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
The almighty furballers (ppl with ADD) will be around any moment to tell you that limiting gameplay is okay as long as it's not thiers that's being limited.
That's about the only content in thier posts. ever.
How about following Beetles advice and upping from a rear field?
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How about following beet1e's advice and go to the DA?
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Its not the map, its the player.
The "mass" here wants furball, and furball is given
Panem et circenses
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Ooh, you got me! Your wit is too much. Now use it to go find a fight, you whining tard.
Allready have! :rolleyes:
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you only have to go thru one of his tirades to know ego is his only motivation.
he dosent even fly very well.
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Originally posted by artik
I'd like to put some negative notes about FesterMA.
The base are close you do not need spend a lot of time to find action but... all action is compressed between the friendly and enemy fields - and what heppens - instead of separate fights of 3-6 planes we get one continious big fight between friendly and enemy bases - a huge FURBALL.
This furball continious at all alt from 0k to 15-20k - through all the front between countries in width of 10-15 miles (the distance between bases).
And that is most of gameplay feachers at FesterMA
- It is good for all players that like enter furball kill 1-2 planes and die, the players who not care to survive. But it is not good for old players that want to have a fun but like to return to their bases, maybe disangage from 5-6 planes that try to catch you, or players who use winging tactics - FesterMA leaves no option for tactical engage.
- It is good for all turnfighters - but furballing is abolutly disaster for all energy fighters like P-51D, Bf109G-10 or Fw190D-9. Because the main goal of this planes is energy and when the fight continue from 0 to 20k it is not easy to get an advatage.
- Buff pilots have to get to extreemy high alt to bomb otherwise they enter big furball and die in few minutes
- Dive bombers and strike planes - have almost no chance to get to the target without being engaged by other plane - and dropping their ord.
- Instead of normal gameplay at MA with tactcal feachers - separate flight, bomb runs and.... furballs too - it is redused to furball only - and time to time separet fights.
Is FesterMA so good?
Looks like first positive replayes we get from dweeb players that what furballs only.
Your opinion? [/B]
A huge arse REALLY weak whine has been recorded. Buahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahah------ah
Fester MA is good for all, if you want furball go to middle of map, if you want to land grab, go to outer edge, GVs, well that can be done just about anywhere. If you want to fly a fighter, go to a place that suits your flying style and not right in the heart of a massive furball. As far as your pathedic whine about bombing. Fester and I and several others the other night ran several bombing missions over very hot bases and never when over 16k. We never not made it back and got out bombs out everytime with out NME's all over us while doing so.
I think Artik, you just need somthing wo whine about. I think you are jealous of the fact that someone finnaly came up with a map that is good foreveryone. I think that you need to find a new way to fly becauses the one you are using right now surely isnt working for you. Please dont whine anymore Artik, its embarasing. I think people like you just need somthing to ***** about or they just arent turely content inside. I hate Big Isles or what ever you call that hedious map. But i fly it because HTC wants to keep it in rotation. And while i fly on it along with many others, we keep the whihning to a minimum and also my flying time to a minimum on a map like that. For those who wish to fly 45 minutes to do one Jabo run and most likely auger or die to ack that is so ubber its sick, Big isles is great. If you dont like the map stay off it durring its time in rotation because the rest do. :aok
Jeff/MorPheuS
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I enjoy myself on the Fester map.
I enjoy myself on all maps, but then again I am able to alter the way I have fun flying an online sim. I try not to limit my online entertainment in one dimension. Too boring that way.
To those who cannot have fun on all map I have some advice,
"Take the blinders off!"
It's all there, ya just have to look.
:)
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I enjoyed myself immensly on FesterMA today, despite being killed stupidly as usual a few times. Point is I shot Fester down today. Ok, so I suck, had E and he was outnumbered but I got him. :D
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Originally posted by artik
I'd like to put some negative notes about FesterMA.
The base are close you do not need spend a lot of time to find action but... all action is compressed between the friendly and enemy fields - and what heppens - instead of separate fights of 3-6 planes we get one continious big fight between friendly and enemy bases - a huge FURBALL.
This furball continious at all alt from 0k to 15-20k - through all the front between countries in width of 10-15 miles (the distance between bases).
And that is most of gameplay feachers at FesterMA
- It is good for all players that like enter furball kill 1-2 planes and die, the players who not care to survive. But it is not good for old players that want to have a fun but like to return to their bases, maybe disangage from 5-6 planes that try to catch you, or players who use winging tactics - FesterMA leaves no option for tactical engage.
- It is good for all turnfighters - but furballing is abolutly disaster for all energy fighters like P-51D, Bf109G-10 or Fw190D-9. Because the main goal of this planes is energy and when the fight continue from 0 to 20k it is not easy to get an advatage.
- Buff pilots have to get to extreemy high alt to bomb otherwise they enter big furball and die in few minutes
- Dive bombers and strike planes - have almost no chance to get to the target without being engaged by other plane - and dropping their ord.
- Instead of normal gameplay at MA with tactcal feachers - separate flight, bomb runs and.... furballs too - it is redused to furball only - and time to time separet fights.
Is FesterMA so good?
Looks like first positive replayes we get from dweeb players that what furballs only.
Your opinion? [/B]
As so many others have already done, I'm going to put in my 2 cents on the above comments.
1) I think you should evaluate how you engage. One can always engage into a fight with a tactical advantage, or a tactical disadvantage. Wingman tactics work just as well on this map as any other, especially because of the amount of enemies present at a given time.
2) This is a completely false statement. Energy fighters thrive in this kind of environment, as do the turners. As an example, I offer up a sortie from the evening of 11/16. Pand, Greedz, Blksheep and I landed 9, 8, 20, and 6 kills respectively. Pand, Greedz and Blksheep were flying P51Ds and I was flying the P51B. We used wingman tactics to engage and destroy the enemy. By the way, this is a completely shameless plug :)
3) Buff pilots always have to climb to altitude to be effective on any map -- discounting the ack-star low-level guys and the dive-bomb-suicide carrier bombers. If you drive buffs into a furball, you can't expect anything but to be engaged by a multitude of enemy fighters. This map offers the buff driver the ability to roll from a second line base away from the action and have multiple targets to engage.
4) The same holds true for the jabo pilot as for the buff driver. If you up from a forward base packing ordinance and drive into a furball, of course you're going to get smacked around. Roll from a second line base, gain altitude and drop wisely. Don't go screaming down to the deck to make your drops. Do it from altitude and pick your entrance and egress wisely.
5) It is precisely because of the positioning and location of bases on this map that every type of player can be happily doing his thing. For example, last night I upped a heavy p51d and played "Kill the gvs". Busted 10 of them before finally going down to a flakpanzer. Then I went onto destroy airborne targets.
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johnyb says it all
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Artik, I think you need to re-evaluate how you are using the "energy" fighters." I fly the p51D a lot. I actually switched away from the pony on FesterMA to the hellcat because the pickins were just too easy. I wanted a fight, not a sheep slaughter. If you are having trouble getting an advantage in your energy fighter, you are doing something drastically wrong.
Maybe you should find a pilot that is a proficient killer in energy fighters and spend some time w/ him to see how it is done.
Now, about this fighting w/ an advantage thing: it's overrrated on the fun scale. Take your favorite energy fighter into the middle of the biggest furball you can find. You'd be amazed at what some of these planes can do besides BnZ.
Flying an energy plane on FesterMA is like being a Quarterback and taking a 7 step drop, then looking up to find you have 20 receivers running routes and no pass rush. In the few pony missions I flew on FesterMA, I was able to get easy kills on my third or fourth "read" with ease and frequency. In other words, ,as I made a pass through the pile, the plane I killed was actually often the fourth option as I made my pass. With these kinds of results, your success should soar on Fester's map if you want to fly an energy fighter
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Originally posted by Rutilant
How about following beet1e's advice and go to the DA?
I'm not attached to Beetles hip like you are so I don't need to pay attention to him...thanks anyway.
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I think what rubs some guys wrong, is that so many folks have fun on Festers Monster....the strat guys hate that:)
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That's an odd reply to someone stating why they don't like the map rude. Seems there's been a group of people that have quite consistantly said they don't care how much fun others are having on maps right up until recently.
It's funny to watch people hop back and forth across the fence and use the same arguments back and forth. It's even funnier when you realize neither "side" is right.
MiniD
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Originally posted by artik
- Dive bombers and strike planes - have almost no chance to get to the target without being engaged by other plane - and dropping their ord.
This comment speaks volumes. You can't milkrun and therefore you don't like the map.
FesterMA definitely challenges those brilliant stratiticians out there to come up with something better than swarming one base while porking the fuel at the next closest base. In most cases there are several next closest bases; because of the density of bases on the front, it's difficult to get a lone Tiffy into one without being challenged; and even the next next closest bases are a reasonable flight away.
Claiming that the high base density of FesterMA somehow curtails the strategic element of the MA only goes to show how lame much of that so-called strategy is.
If you are really into strategy, you'll embrace the different challenge that this map offers and devise new and clever ways to achieve your objectives.
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Fester Map is decent.
Its not my personal favorite, but its no where near the bottom either. Id say its about 2-3 from the top of my list.
In my Opinion its appears to be one of the easiest Maps to strat or reset. ::Shrug:: one must adjust tactics for each map.
Its a fast paced map, with a lot of action no matter how you use it. I think overall its a great addtion and an excellent effort to try another approach.
Some Like it, Some dont, I dont see the need to insult each other over opinions. Arik stated his, no need to flame him or anyone else.
Im glad Fester built it, I think its sizing is about right.
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Originally posted by Rude
I'm not attached to Beetles hip like you are so I don't need to pay attention to him...thanks anyway.
Ruh roh.. struck a cord. The personal attacks cometh.
:)
See, they aren't used to being something less than almighty, bring em off thier perch and all they can do is throw personal attacks at ya. Or bring up stats, and before you look, Lazsrudetoad, mine are poor. I can tell ya that now.
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I have to agree its been a bish/rook gangbang furball the last couple of nights were the knights have to up massive numbers to counter the duel attacks due to being out numbered by 20-50 players from both sides. We justdont have enough guys to go around and half of them wouldn't monitor the map for sneak attacks if the map bit them on the leg. :(
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its the MA tards, if you want 30k spit duels go to the CT.
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artik..ur flying skills in individual planes is laking...
thsi map is a furballers dream/nightmare...
i routinly have to turn/fite my way hoem in a churiicane...
many many nme..in a short area...
if you are in a runners Dweeb plane..109g10- typ.190dorka..or a pee 51( although it turns liek a champ also)
..u can get many many kills..hell its great to haulll asssss thru furballs killn fools...especially when u in a fast cannon ride..
FeterMAW map...ixcellent...
Love
BiGB
xoxo
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im starting to like small maps again.... :eek:
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deja.. your point is taken but... I believe that certain truts are undeniable and I think there is a reason that they go over your head.
The truth is that in an arena where all planes are allowed then the best way to get the most choice of gameplay and usable ac choice is either to be extremely good with a whole lot of patience or.... fly a map with a lot of fields close together.
Standing behind you watching you fly made it a little clearer.... yu are very good at this and... you are VERY easily amused... I don't know what you are enjoying but you seem to be... when the lone 190 drifted down to make his sissy little passes at your P40.... I groaned.... I was allready bored with doing what I considered doing nothing for 5 minutes (puting myself in your place) but you were content... a groaned because the 190 attack was sooooo predictable and so unfun to me but.... you enjoyed it...
With your skill and patience level it wouldn't matter what map was up or how many fights you found or of what quality... even ones that are really non-fights... you seem to make the most of them all... Admittedly.... that is the best way to be but is completely contrary to my nature... if I don't have a dozen or more fights an hour I may as well be doing laundry or loading all those dirty dishes into the dishwasher.
I believe that close fields offer the most choice for everyone... I really believe that festers map proves this. I believe the reaction to it was predictable... allmost universal acceptance except by the few truly evil "enemies of fun" The grinches who feel attention is being taken away from them and they don't have enough affect on all the other players for their "effort".
lazs
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Ruh roh.. struck a cord. The personal attacks cometh.
:)
See, they aren't used to being something less than almighty, bring em off thier perch and all they can do is throw personal attacks at ya. Or bring up stats, and before you look, Lazsrudetoad, mine are poor. I can tell ya that now.
Struck no cord at all....just a birds of a feather kinda thingie.
Funny how you perceive players that want to have fun just like you do as almighty....much is lost in the translation on these boards.
Truth is, I simply noticed that you and Beetle share the same opinion...just didn't know you were so sensitive of a person as to find my statement a personal attack on you.
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Originally posted by Rude
Struck no cord at all....just a birds of a feather kinda thingie.
Funny how you perceive players that want to have fun just like you do as almighty....much is lost in the translation on these boards.
Truth is, I simply noticed that you and Beetle share the same opinion...just didn't know you were so sensitive of a person as to find my statement a personal attack on you.
So you're telling me you die-hard furballers actually don't feel superior to a strat player somehow?
It sure seems that way.
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Originally posted by Rutilant
So you're telling me you die-hard furballers actually don't feel superior to a strat player somehow?
It sure seems that way.
Not at all....simply put, what difference does it make one way or another how a person plays a game? What's relevant, is can all who play enjoy themselves the way they choose to....does one map prohibit another from enjoying their time online?
I've played more years as a strat player than most in this game....you can strat on any map...you cannot furball on any map, yet the strat contingent seems driven to tell anyone who is not like minded to suffer or go to the DA...it's that attitude which deserves nothing short of a shake of the head and the wonderment of how folks with little or no furballing time can tell us how we should or should not play a game.
At any rate, this topic, not unlike any other on these boards, will never be resolved and the pissing will continue.
Knock yourself out.
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It's not hard to find furballs on pizza, trinity.. Bigisles just sucks all around, i'll give you that. Just stop taking lazs's word for it, fly a bit farther than DA distances and at least TRY to find these fights you say don't exist
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rut... it's not that we think the noble furballer is superior in every way to the cowardly, back stabbing strat potato, sky accountant, unskilled,strat sissy... it is simply the way things are..
you can find furballs on pizza but it is luck. A fun night on pizza would be finding one or two furballs that were close and kept you busy for an hour or two that you were logged on... there is about a 1 in 10 chance of this happening.
lazs
Puiblic Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Rutilant
It's not hard to find furballs on pizza, trinity.. Bigisles just sucks all around, i'll give you that. Just stop taking lazs's word for it, fly a bit farther than DA distances and at least TRY to find these fights you say don't exist
Like I said....this will not be resolved....you're unaware of how we feel about the maps and are not interested in a solution other than to tell us to fly further, which brings us back to why I said what I did in the first place....the standard response of a strat guy is to tell us to fly further or to go to the DA.
I'm done.
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I'm beginning to think lazs holds some bitter feelings towards strat players 'cuz he can't understand strat. :)
It is human nature to fear what you don't understand, after all, so you want it gone or eliminated 'cuz it's evil and scary and bad and it isn't the quake you know and love.
Rude, I realize this, and i realize the futility of it all, with people like lazs instigating it, it won't be dropped.
Mostly because it's fun to pick on lazs. :D
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Describe, in detail please, what AH strat involves.
Also include means and methods of "stratting" if you would.
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I understand AH 'strat' perfectly... the team with the most numbers "wins" the war... at which point... the map is reset and they can do it again... unless some other team has gotten the most numbers.
lazs
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strat =
1) u hurt the nme w/ ou tactually engaging them...
porking fuel-ammo-barrkas ect...
you can do this short term..hit there airfield strats
you can do thsi long term...hit the factories...
methods of strat...ok jabo--suicide jabo..or buffs... i guess u can GV start too but thats too slow
it all works..
its funny too..i dont do long term strat stuff..but i have porked MANY a MNAY fuel barrks ect when we start to get outnumbered and rolled on...
but this map has everything for everyone..if you cant find it ..maybe you should go kill yourself..or go play online candyland
Love
BiGB
x0x0
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Originally posted by lazs2
deja.. your point is taken but... I believe that certain truts are undeniable and I think there is a reason that they go over your head.
I know you think they are truths lazs. That doesn't really mean they go over my head... it means yours is incapable of seeing anything different.The truth is that in an arena where all planes are allowed then the best way to get the most choice of gameplay and usable ac choice is either to be extremely good with a whole lot of patience or.... fly a map with a lot of fields close together.
The truth is that you would say this no matter what lazs. You believe it to be a truth, you support it whenever you can. Don't call me close minded when you refuse to see otherwise.
Here is a truth: You are bored with the MA
The rest is simply a blame game.Standing behind you watching you fly made it a little clearer.... yu are very good at this and... you are VERY easily amused... I don't know what you are enjoying but you seem to be... when the lone 190 drifted down to make his sissy little passes at your P40.... I groaned.... I was allready bored with doing what I considered doing nothing for 5 minutes (puting myself in your place) but you were content... a groaned because the 190 attack was sooooo predictable and so unfun to me but.... you enjoyed it...
Not sure how to take this lazs... but I do believe you are jumping to one hell of a conclusion based on 5 minutes of observation. The great irony is that the "190" situation has nothing to do with the map... but how people fly 190's... b and z and nothing else. It's as predictable as it gets regardless of the map. It's also ironic that I was constantly finding fights despite the fester map not being up.
Here's what I observed about you lazs, and it has nothing to do with how you play. You mentioned fester's map 20 times in the first 5 minutes you were at the con. Hell, you even said it helped lighten traffic in the SF area, solve world hunger and put an end to infant mortality. I'm exagerating a bit, but not much. All this after you'd played it for nearly an hour one night. With your skill and patience level it wouldn't matter what map was up or how many fights you found or of what quality... even ones that are really non-fights... you seem to make the most of them all... Admittedly.... that is the best way to be but is completely contrary to my nature... if I don't have a dozen or more fights an hour I may as well be doing laundry or loading all those dirty dishes into the dishwasher.
Ah... here we have arrived.
Truth: You are bored with the game
Why is entirely subjective. But what you've listed above has nothing to do with the map lazs. The map does not make fights better or worse... the people do. And guess what... those same people are flying on all of the maps.
I've been in furballs where you were located lazs. They were no more or less fun than anything else. It was just a series of people jumping on engaged aircraft... a giant daisy chain. I've followed you out of a fight before to see you run all the way back to your base rather than engage. I've seen you do the things you claim make the game boring. At the very same time, you were insisting that good fights were hard to find. I believe you were looking in the wrong direction then, as you are now.I believe that close fields offer the most choice for everyone... I really believe that festers map proves this. I believe the reaction to it was predictable... allmost universal acceptance except by the few truly evil "enemies of fun" The grinches who feel attention is being taken away from them and they don't have enough affect on all the other players for their "effort".
I believe you'd believe this regardless. I believe your oppinion on this is as biased as those you are labeling with every one of your posts. You have not played it but 2 times, yet your convinced it is the solution.
Moving bases closer together moves the fights to the bases. This means aircraft at bases... not between them. The fights aren't closer, the fields are. There is more ack running, gang banging, vulching and overall dweebery on the fester map than any other I've seen. Somehow, this is seen as better.
I was saluted by someone on Saturday because I dared engage the 8 of them with my P-40 as they hovered over a base not trying to attack it but simply vulch it. Later that very same pilot screamed "4 on 1!!!" as he returned to that same base were a few people had up'd to defend it... then he went to fight elsewhere. I can come up with several such stories in regards to fester's map... as well as many other maps. I have screenshots where not a single red bar-dar con was in the same sector as a green bar-dar con.... across the whole front on fester's map. This has nothing to do with the map, but the behavior of those playing in it.
People aren't looking for good fights any more, they're looking for easy fights. There's a big difference. This map makes it easier to get to an enemy base or back to a friendly base. It does nothing to improve the frequency or quality of fights. Late war rides are just as prevelant as any other map, yet magically people insist that doesn't really matter on this map. It's just easier to find a situation where you have the advantage in fester's map. You might find that fun, but I do not. Ironic how you say I'm the one that's easily amused.
MiniD
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easy fights!
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so... u are saying that festers map is not the solution to world hunger?
I don't know if I am more bored with AH than before but I seem to enjoy the same fights in the same way. I would say that while the chance of it being me that has changed is debateable... it is not debateable that the maps changed... the large maps with spread out fields is what caused me to lose interest from time to time. When the fights were/are compressed I still have fun. And... it seems... I have every bit as much fun.
you accuse me of making a judgement on you in 5 minutes yet... you followed my out of ammo f4u in your hellcat out of a furball ONE time and from that seem to know my style? What exactly should I have done? I imagine we could get ten different people with ten different views based on 5 minute observations.... I have allready heard most of em.... now I heard yours.. but really... we never seen each other much in the arena.
No... If I am bored I am not alone and am not pointing at anything that is not obvious. I know you feel some sort of loyalty to the pizza abortion but..... face it... A lot of people don't like it besides me.. enough so that it probly got more flak than any other map. There are several large maps like it..
now... take festers.... if the maps don't matter and I am wrong... where is the outpouring of vitriol over festers map? fester himself is not a sympathetic character and has never been immune to critism.. he is far from humble or careful in his posts. Yet.... His map is probly better recieved than any I can recall.... if.... if you use the BB and numbers online as a guide...
Also... When his map is not on... even the BB gets boring.. Curing world hunger is a minor thing compared to all that. I never said it did much for bay area traffic but.... there is a good chance that it helps.
lazs
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Lazs... you made a judgement on 5 minutes, I pointed out that I've seen you do the same things you claim you despise. I was not saying you flew that way all the time. Actually, you are the only one saying you fly a certain way all the time. Say it again and I'll bring up another example where you don't.
As far as what you do or don't find more fun lazs... it's pretty much irrelevant. You're not flying on fester's map any more than you're flying on any others. That tells me something even if you don't want to believe it.
Truth: You're bored with the game.
The same old tired arguments are doing nothing to disprove that lazs. The fact that you resort to them without having more than an hour on fester's map proves that. The fun you insist is now there obviously isn't enough for you.
Truth: You're bored with the game.
You can blame it on anything you don't like about the game. Truth is, it just happens. It happens to everyone in every game. The only real difference is how people chose to see it. Is it their own fault or is it everyone else's?
MiniD
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People aren't looking for good fights any more, they're looking for easy fights.
Sad but true. More than once in the last couple of days I've upped a plane to go after a darbar over an undefended base. I and whoever came w/ me would kill the attackers, then the enemy would evaporate in order to find an undefended field to de-ack and wait for vulch victims....darbar shows up several sectors away... rinse and repeat.
Still, during primetime even these milktards have trouble finding undefended buildings to battle.. and 2 weekers to vulch repeatedly...love Fester's map.... sure there's a huge furball or 3 in the middle and that's a blast.....strat people can still pork and auger as much as they want. They just have a harder time ruining other people's fun so they feel somewhat impotent..it drives them crazy no doubt....thus the whines about Fester's maps.
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How many folks here would have fun in AH2:ToD? Seems like there will need to be an enormous AI presence in this game, as perhaps most folks aren't interested in missions or strat?
Sometimes investment pays off. I see some folks like quick action, but I also see lamentations against the monotony of endless la7 hordes. A more varied, interesting, immersive experience requires some structure, some voluntary discipline, and some form of "the transire benefaciendo which ought to guide every reasonable man".
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I'll practically live there. Then you guys can have your furball MA :p
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me too TOD!!!!1
i cant wait..i love well done LARGE msiions..
Ilove Historical ..style flying..
Cant wai tti be ina large bomr raid or attk aa large bomr raid:)
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I've been slow to join this thread, primarily because there's little left to say that hasn't been said 500 times already. I partly agree with Lazs when he says the strat (as it stands in the game at present) comes down to numbers. That's to be expected, what with bardar, "base under attack", and gangbang generator (Mission Editor). Back in Brand-W days, one could think of strat along the lines of this:
- Getting a kill = taking a piece, eg, rook X bishop, bishop X knight etc.
- Capturing a base, or destroying an important strat target, thereby compromising the enemy's available choices = Check.
- Winning the last base so that the enemy has no remaining options = Checkmate.
Of course, that kind of gameplay relied upon some sort of teamwork and gaming strategy - something that is sadly lacking in AH. And folks were prepared to spend $2/hour to get it. There'd be LW squads, USN squads, RAF squads, IJN squads...
Now we have the Kidz, and others afflicted by Attention Deficit Disorder, or folks who don't have much time to spend online and therefore require an instant gratification fix. So my Chess analogy needs to be extended: - Player gets bored, wants to speed the game up: Change rules so that every pawn counts as a queen, including the queen itself. All pieces to be available on all squares - LOL
- Player has only 5 minutes to finish game: Redefine the concept of victory as "having *fun*". Have a T-shirt printed up with the caption "Dying is Cool".
- Player finds a knight move to difficult to understand: Don't bother to learn about those. Just use the queens (all nine of them) or choose whichever piece is best for the job.
- Player can't see why chess has rules. He has after all paid his monthly $14.95 Chess Club subscription: Whine like hell - it's MY $14.95...
- Player gets frustrated with the board that he's been asked to play on, the colours, the shapes of the pieces: Player tips the board up, all the pieces fall off and are put back in the box, which is where they would have ended up at the end of the game. Hey, that's faster than playing the damn game...
Hazed had it a post from about 6 months ago in which he said that furballing was FUN, but would not sustain long term adult interest. (keyword=adult) I look around to see why the furballers aren't bored with furballing, and it's because they don't spend enough time online to get bored with furball futility. They're only on for minutes each day - that was the main reason they wanted the fields closer together, because of their pressing RL engagements...
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deja... there could be other reasons why I don't play as much lately... I am helping to raise a 2 year old grand daughter.. I am not good at it and need to devote a lot of attention to the job. I am not a natural at it.
I am telling you that when i do get a chance to play.... I enjoy the fester map but, like before in the other 9 out of ten times in the pizza map... I still hate the pizza map... the big isles and the pizza and even infinity to a degree are all boring 9 times out of ten for me. The few times I have logged onto festers map have been a blast.
Even if I don't instantly get into a fight on festers map... I can see clumps of fighters in the distance. That keeps my attention. In the other maps with far fields.... you head toward a bar that changes halway through your journey.
you claim to have been in furballs where I was and that they were no different than... than what? I enjoyed those furballs and I enjoy any current ones regardless of the map.... In fact... pizza has the ability to have some neat canyon furballs if it weren't laid out all wrong... furball is a furball... a lone 190 attacking and "extending" home aginst a lone p40 is not a furball. I want maps where the latter is not my only choice 9 out of ten times. I do not think I am alone in this desire.
I think both the pizza map and festers map prove my point... to us furballers anyway. To a certain extent... they prove it to the strat only guys too... look who is *****ing about festers map and why. They are basically saying that festers map allows the other players to ignore them. They like the pizza map because it forces people to organize to be successful and spreds out the players so that furballs are difficult.
The above does not include everyone tho... only about 90% would be my guess... the other 10% finds fun in any type of fight or gameplay. For most players... of normal skill.... the fester map allows for lots of viable and fun choice while the pizza map forces certain plane choices and style.
lazs
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beetle... what are u going on about? I played "brand X" a lot longer than you did and I never carried a bomb. I never took a base in order to check or checkmate anyone... only to have a place to take off from.... I have seen more "missuns" here than I ever did in brand X....
Brand X is dead... the more it got to what you wanted the more people left... It was your group that wanted the chess pieces and they got em... they got allied vs axis and the different chess pieces..... you got to "make a difference" you got to affect dozens of players with little skill... the game died.
next comes AH and anyone with a mouse fcan jump in a fluff and ruin the gameplay for dozens of players for hours.... perfect chess pice setting... call em the queens.. we don't have that anymore... it was killing the game. Course the queens either left or still cry but.... does anyone miss em? player base is up...
now... along conmes festers map... player interest and base is up.
maybe this was meant to be a combat flight sim and not a chess game?
lazs
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Lazs, when other things pop up you prioritize what is important and disgard the rest. You've pretty much made it clear where the game sits. I can't fault you for that except when you try to come back and pretend you didn't.
And none of this has any bearing on the fact that you continue to voiciferously defend a map you haven't really played. I was on last night lazs... I saw Beet1e there. I didn't see you.
If life is that busy, how about giving the assaults a rest too. Leave it to the guys that are actually playing the game and actually have experience with the map. I know it's difficult for you not to jump in despite not knowing what you're talking about... but give it a try. It'll free up even more time for your grandaughter.
MiniD
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Some simple thoughts from a 'strat challenged' :
You can't play against/with a real person unless you're online. You can't fight against other planes offline. Fighting other planes is what the "furball crowd" wants.
You can, however, destroy hangars, fuel bunkers, vehice hangars and factories offline in exactly the same way you do it online.
Fighting stationary targets is what the "strat crowd" wants.
Question: why don't you "strat guys" play offline? Stupid idea, isn't it?
Of course, nobody wants that - the building battler and the furball dweebs want to play in the MA with people who share their interests.
The furball dweebs couldn't care less for the strat aspects of the MA as long as they don't interfere. The problem is the game balance of the main arena is shifted towards the strat aspect: one group can deny the other group what it wants: Kill fuel and you're successfully interdicting a furball.
In MMOG terms having one player killing the fun for other players is called "griefer" and endless streams of suicide runners to kill strat targets on enemy fields are just that.
This inbalance is also a lot more pronounced since a single guy can kill every fuel depot on an enemy field with a few Typhoon runs (even saving time by augering shortly after his ord is dropped) and thus killing a furball for dozens of people.
FesterMA is one of the few maps where spacing of the airfields makes it a lot more difficult to successfully drain enough fuel to starve a furball to death. This doesn't take anything away from the strat guys (after all, they can still kill everything) but prevents them from taking something away from the furball crowd.
I hope i'm incorrect here but it looks like some of you strat guys have a problem if you can't stop someone else having fun?
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Originally posted by leitwolf
Question: why don't you "strat guys" play offline? Stupid idea, isn't it?
Question: why don't you "furball guys" play in the DA? Stupid idea, isn't it?
The strat guys play in the MA because that's where HTC put the strat. It didn't just appear there. It was put there by HTC. They put none in the DA, which is free of strat, free of buffs, free of fuel porkage. Get it? So if you're a furballer, why don't you go there?
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Originally posted by leitwolf
Question: why don't you "strat guys" play offline? Stupid idea, isn't it?
'Cuz there's no one to try and stop ya offline, ya ninny!
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Originally posted by artik
- Buff pilots have to get to extreemy high alt to bomb otherwise they enter big furball and die in few minutes
- Dive bombers and strike planes - have almost no chance to get to the target without being engaged by other plane - and dropping their ord.
[/B]
This is a most excellent map for dive bombing with Ar234's. Closer fields make RTB and rearm not such a not such a boring proposition. (I know they forgot the bomb site, but you can make your own with the mouse pointer marking the center of the screen)
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The strat guys play in the MA because that's where HTC put the strat. It didn't just appear there. It was put there by HTC. They put none in the DA, which is free of strat, free of buffs, free of fuel porkage. Get it? So if you're a furballer, why don't you go there?
My question was just mild sarcasm. I hope yours is too :)
The MA should have room for everyone hence the name "Main" arena. This includes both strat and furball players but there needs to be a balance between these groups.
And if one player has the ability to kill the fun of many others it isn't balanced anymore - there have been many game adjustments in the past to regain this balance and fester's map is another attempt - in my book a very good one. Can you name things this map took away from strat players? It certainly brought something back for the furballers.
That's a win/win imho :aok
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Originally posted by beet1e
Question: why don't you "furball guys" play in the DA? Stupid idea, isn't it?
The strat guys play in the MA because that's where HTC put the strat. It didn't just appear there. It was put there by HTC. They put none in the DA, which is free of strat, free of buffs, free of fuel porkage. Get it? So if you're a furballer, why don't you go there?
There are also strat objects and buildings offline. Why don’t you play there?
Leitwolf is 100% correct. The strat in the main is just a silly little side show to facilitate combat. There is no real strategy to it. I haven’t played in the main in along time but I hear many good things about fester’s map. Some folks don’t care about war winning or any of that non-sense.
But there needs to be a balance. 1 suicide tard should not be able to impact the fun of 100 others. The "strat" types can still do their mass auger runs. They just need to take off from rear bases, fly longer to find an undefended base. They have np forcing the very same thing on the "furballers" especially when they pork/auger the fuel.
There is one clear difference in furballer and strat.
Strat guys kill themselves over and over battling inanimate "strat" objects and demand that their style impact everyone else.
Where as a furballer just wants to mix it up with another player.
Strat guys can battle all the buildings they want offline. But of course they wont get any attention that way. They wont be "taking it for their team" or "winning a war" etc....
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"....'Cuz there's no one to try and stop ya offline, ya ninny!".
The last thing the strat types want is opposition or anything resembling a fight.
yowser
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I'm a strat guy.. I like a good challenge
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batz i wont even go into where ur so wrong on many points but 1 for now...
furballers just want to mix it up???
LMFAO!!!!!
ya the frikn HO dweeb who thtas all he can do evrytime sure is "mixing it up"
is it our fault ur scared to kill bomers?? i dont get it...they battle ftrs as well as "inam objects"..
im glad HTC made this gaem encompass a great deal of WW2 tactics/planes fights...
.."I havent played in MA a long time but..."
lmfao..
One order of WhaaaamBurger and Cry Fries up
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Leitwolf - you're starting to sound like Toad. :D Yes, mild sarcasm indeed. ;) Nothing to worry about.
Batz, you are also sounding like Toad in your interpretation of "strat player". Like Toad, you have this vision of black or white, with nothing in between. Someone is either a fighter, or a building battler. Nothing in between. But there are shades of grey in between.
I think it's mildly insulting to HTC to describe the strat in the MA as a silly little side show. They have gone to great lengths to put it there, and it's a complex issue. I admit to not understanding it fully myself. OK, field capture is not much, but it's what we've got. When one side is trying to take a base, and the enemy is trying to prevent it, that leads to combat - combat with a purpose, ie. not just manufactured fights whose purpose is to pad the scores of the participants. "oooh look, Daddy, I got a high k/h"... :rolleyes: Strat guys are not suicide porkers by definition. Many folks interested in the strat angle fly buffs to destroy strat targets - I suppose you feel that buffs are just another silly little side show? Again, HTC went to considerable lengths to model buffs, and to implement the Norden, and to include these aircraft in the MA.
As for one or a handful of tards ruining the fun of others, would you consider a buff (or handful of 110s working together) levelling the fighter hangars at a field as "ruining the fun for many others"? I think you're quite wrong if you do. That's a perfectly legitimate purpose for buffs. Some people whine when that happens, but for buffs to destroy a ground target is sort of the whole bleedin' point. When are you dolts going to understand that?
I think you need to reassess what HTC was trying to achieve when they developed AH. It is a WW2 combat experience - check the caption on the HTC homepage. It is not billed as a furball fantasy, or simply a dogfight dreamland. There are silly little side shows for that - the DA, for example. But the MAIN arena is where everything is to be found. WW2 combat did not just involve dogfights. WW2 combat involved bombers, tanks and other GVs, and ground attack aircraft operating from carriers as in the Pacific war - that's why all these forms of WW2 combat are simulated in the main arena.
Maybe you should read some WW2 books by some real WW2 pilots. Sometimes they would go for weeks without getting kill or even seeing the enemy. Of course, you would find that boring. If you're only interested in half or one third of the game that HTC has produced for the MA, you can find that third in the DA.
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HT knows it’s a silly sideshow. None of the "strat" in the current main developed from some master plan. It was pieced together over time. Some aspects added, some dropped and some adjusted. But it has never been more then what it is now.
The difference is at one time nobody cared what the other guy did and no one made it their goal to stop the other side from flying. There was base capture and vulching but there was always a good fight.
I played warbirds as well and there was no way I was going to waste 6 bucks climbing, cruising just to place a bomb on an inanimate object. I went for the fight to get my money's worth.
It is you that needs to read some history if you think anything you see in the main is real. You can stoke yourself off all you want about how real you want it to be but no amount of stroking will make it so. Look at your old stomping ground, isn’t that really "real"? The more real it got the less players it kept.
It's not me that’s confused it's you. You impose yourself into these threads and make assumptions. I know what and whom I am referring to when I say "building battlers". I have made enough replies and you can certainly search and find exactly who and what I am talking about.
As much as you may want to portray the majority of strat types as benevolent "strategy" oriented players it’s just not true. For every one of those there are 15 pork and auger types crying for attention. They cry, "furballing is pointless", as if flying into the ground after riding in a bomb is some sort of grand and noble purpose.
99% of the furball types could careless how you or anyone else plays as long as there is a balance. Making a map where it takes 1 hour of flying about is not fun for quite a few folks. Then add in a half dozen pork and auger types jacking up the fuel, suiciding the cv or the mishion dude squad and their gang planner rampaging against the lowly fighter hanger and there is no "balance".
Fester made a map with close fields. The close fields ensure a big fast paced furballs. If the "strat fellow" doesn’t like it he can fly from a rear base and then fly to an enemy rear base and auger his heart out. Sounds good don’t it? A little for everyone right? Well wrong, because strat boy is ignored and that’s what upsets him. He has no impact and all the little furballers are having a blast and he can’t stand that.
These same people hate the furball because they get killed and they think, "Why I am getting killed for nothing?” Well it is all for nothing. Everyone wins as long as everyone has fun.
Every time you say "DA" to the furballers they can say "offline" to you and the want to be generals. But offline there are no "impact players" and if a building blows up and there is no one there to see it...?
That said you didn’t answer Leitwolf's question:
Can you name things this map took away from strat players?
and
I hope I’m incorrect here but it looks like some of you strat guys have a problem if you can't stop someone else having fun?
And I'll add one of my own,
In the context of the ah main arena what is "strategy?"
Don’t answer with that red herring "buffs destroying strat targets". For one, you don’t see that happen to often in ah. Why? The buff guys will tell you because there is no reason to. Again back to "impact". HT has adjusted the impact of bombers and "strat" targets. And two, go and get you a book and see what it took for strategic bombing to have an impact in the real war.
You can start here,
http://www.anesi.com/ussbs02.htm
So much for realism.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Question: why don't you "furball guys" play in the DA? Stupid idea, isn't it?
The strat guys play in the MA because that's where HTC put the strat. It didn't just appear there. It was put there by HTC. They put none in the DA, which is free of strat, free of buffs, free of fuel porkage. Get it? So if you're a furballer, why don't you go there?
You wish....not gonna happen...best to get over it.
Please explain to all of us why and how Festers map prohibits you from your roll as a strateegerist?
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deja/mini... I have played the fester map and so far... it is the best I have seen... when that perception changes I will let you know.
I think I am managing my time fairly well but yu probly could do it better... how bout coming over and doing a study instead of just talking about something that... well... you haven't really seen?
as for attacks... you are right. I am ashamed of myself and from now on I will try to be as sensitive and caring as you yourself.
Curious tho.... what do you think is the agenda of all the other posters on here that rave about festers and what is the agenda/problem with all those who seem to feel pizza is crap? You did notice that didn't you?
beetle... I would rather meet a bunch of 110's that didn't have bombs and had furballing in mind more than a bunch of 110's trying to avoid any fight so that they could drop bombs on some undefended toolshed somewhere.
lazs
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Like I said lazs... you loved fester's map before you even played it. You'll continue to love it simply because you said you would... never mind you don't play it. You are so full of rhetoric its simply pathetic.
And lazs... this is about you and your presence here. Quit trying to say "what about them?!?". You are babbling nonsense. I'll continue to call you on it.
BTW.. did you play last night lazs? What map was it? Because your K/T went up dramatically.
MiniD
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The reason Lazs K/T went up last night was because he flew with the 13th last night.....we tend to look out for him and share our kills in a democratic fashion so as to allow for everyone to have some fun.
If those in the heavens would come down and fight instead of sightseeing, we wouldn't have these discussions.
The fight between 4 and 5 was pretty good last night....kind of a fluke.
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Maybe you should read some WW2 books by some real WW2 pilots. Sometimes they would go for weeks without getting kill or even seeing the enemy. Of course, you would find that boring.
You wouldn't? :p
As for one or a handful of tards ruining the fun of others, would you consider a buff (or handful of 110s working together) levelling the fighter hangars at a field as "ruining the fun for many others"? I think you're quite wrong if you do. That's a perfectly legitimate purpose for buffs. Some people whine when that happens, but for buffs to destroy a ground target is sort of the whole bleedin' point. When are you dolts going to understand that?
I never said bombers or missions are the problem. Actually with the 'new' bombsight the impact of bombers is very small, maybe too small but then a single buff is perfectly capable of shutting down a field it just takes practice and skill. I would be delighted to see big bomber missions again, there used to be huge bomber formations leveling every base they came across.
For a puristic furballer this is a stretch but like you said between the furball type and the strat type are shades of grey and a huge bomber formation darkening the skies is a lot more balanced than a single pork+auger player because it takes effort and coordination and it gives the defending side a better opportunity to intercept this raid - exactly the fight we want.
Having the post-laser guided new Norden and two (relatively) new unstopable interceptors (Me262 and Me163) the effectivity of bombers is 'neutered' to a level where dive bombing with fast fighters has a higher chance of success. Nothing wrong with Jabo attacks but once the strat guys figured out their chance to kill a building is higher if they don't plan to return again the balance was completely off.
I think it's mildly insulting to HTC to describe the strat in the MA as a silly little side show. They have gone to great lengths to put it
I never said it's a side show, it is a nice aspect of a great game and I believe it's part of the success of this game. I just said that this game is evolving and has been adjusted in the past in order to (re)gain a balanced gameplay.
Bombers used to be too effective in terms of how many people it takes to close a field and how many to defend it against them; now bombers are "useless" in their primary role because a heavy fighter can accomplish the same net effect in less time.
It is a WW2 combat experience - check the caption on the HTC homepage. It is not billed as a furball fantasy, or simply a dogfight dreamland.
Sure, but dive bombing attacks by B-26s, B-17s and Lancaster formations(!) to kill a carrier, suicide runs to fly a bomb into a hangar again and again aren't realistic either.
If you're only interested in half or one third of the game that HTC has produced for the MA, you can find that third in the DA.
Furball types have no place in the main arena? :( ;)
If you say so... but please don't come back and tell us the furball crowd sees themselves as superior to a strat player (like Rutilant did) :)
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I did, lietwolf? I find that hard to believe, because all i'm doing is battling the furballers that think they're superior to a strat player.
But tell me where i did and i'll appologize for it.
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Originally posted by leitwolf
Having the post-laser guided new Norden and two (relatively) new unstopable interceptors (Me262 and Me163) the effectivity of bombers is 'neutered' to a level where dive bombing with fast fighters has a higher chance of success. Nothing wrong with Jabo attacks but once the strat guys figured out their chance to kill a building is higher if they don't plan to return again the balance was completely off.
Bombers used to be too effective in terms of how many people it takes to close a field and how many to defend it against them; now bombers are "useless" in their primary role because a heavy fighter can accomplish the same net effect in less time.
i guess it's too much to expect PROPER[/b] fighter escort?
btw the buffs weren't used as tactical bombing platforms very often.
so much for ToD...
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deja... I didn't realize you were tracking me on a daily basis... I happened to see both/ all three days stats and it appears that my K/H stayed about the same on festers map and on mindy..
I think many would agree that mindy is next in line behind festers map so far as a good furball map..
you act like I never flew pizza.... i hve beu coop hours on it and my perception is that 9 out of 10 times it sucks. I keep up my K/H on any map because of the way I fly not because of the map... if there is no fight I don't take off..... on crappy maps like pizza I spend a lot of time in the tower or... at a furball for an hour and then logging off when the strat sissisies have crapped in the only sandbox there is to play in.
While my time in festers map is only a few hours.... I never found a time when I didn't have choice.
As far as "them".... why do you leave them out? because the vast majority think festers map is great and pizza is crap?
And yes... I knew festers map would be a hit based on nothing but field spacing. face it... regardless of how many hours I have spent on it... the map is a hit... you can't say that OI haven't had fun on it the time I have spent on it either.... you can't say that I haven't spent enough time on pizza abortion to form an opinion either.
So... I will comprimise.... so far... in the limited time I have spent on festers map it has been the best of all of em so far as choice of places to fight..... so far... in the countless hours I have spent on the pizza abortion it is the worst map so far as choice of places to fight.
lazs
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Originally posted by Rude
The reason Lazs K/T went up last night was because he flew with the 13th last night.....we tend to look out for him and share our kills in a democratic fashion so as to allow for everyone to have some fun.
If those in the heavens would come down and fight instead of sightseeing, we wouldn't have these discussions.
The fight between 4 and 5 was pretty good last night....kind of a fluke.
Wow... did you just say it's who you fly with that makes the difference... not the map? Oh wait... you still managed to get an alt monkey dig in there... despite being able to find plenty of good fights.
And lazs... you're K/T did not go up on fester's map. I was watching. It was the lowest it had been in 5 tours... both times you played the map. All you really did after it was introduced was play less. To summarize: You sparcely played fester's map and you're k/t was less than it was on all other maps combined. You say you just log off when there's not your type of fight going on, but you don't log on for fester's map. No... no conflicts there lazs. No real reason to question your oppinion of it. None at all.
MiniD
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Batz! You sound just like Toad. :D Right down to your black or white assessment of every issue of this game. :lol
Of course the MA is not real. Even the scenario arenas can't be real. I said what I thought the strat game equated to in my Chess analogy - my first post in this thread. Note that was an analogy, not a comparison - seems some folks don't understand the difference. ;) The difference is at one time nobody cared what the other guy did and no one made it their goal to stop the other side from flying.
I thought stopping the enemy from flying was what this game was all about. We cap bases - to stop them from flying. We get on their sixes and shoot them down - to stop them from flying. And we can bomb fighter hangars - to stop them from flying - what's the difference? It's a perfectly legitimate tactic. Fuel porkage is the act of a cad, and is as ungentlemanly as vulching. Let he who has never vulched cast the first stone.
In black and white terms, we have AH gameplay and real WW2 as black and white. But there are shades of grey in between! Actual missions with actual goals... working with who happens to be available instead of with a bunch of hand picked mates like Lazs last night. Working with the available aircraft instead of being able to fly your favourite uberplane, or the best plane for the job. OK, it's still not REAL, but would be a lot more real than the AirQuake we have now.
OK, so you're a furballer. Do not make the false assumption that every non-furballer is therefore a strat player. Again, there is more to it than black and white. Suicide Fuel Porker is not a strat player, but a tard with no interest in WW2. But even if your field does get fuel porked back to 25%, on this map, with the fields close together, you could up a 109 with 25%, fly 2 minutes to the nearest field, get a few kills and RTB. I did it yesterday. OK, I had 50% fuel to begin with, but 25% remaining at the end. Alternatively, you could act upon your own advice, and take off from one field further back. You do remember suggesting that, don't you?
I don't see why I'm being called upon to say what is not available to the strat player on Fester's map which is available on other maps. I have made observations about the gameplay that I first saw on this map - walls of LA7s, Aerial Quake... if you can find a thread where I have said that this map compromises the strat game, ask me in that thread, and I'll do my best to reply. I think that's fair enough, because right now I do not know what charges I'm answering to.
I will say that the close fields means greater likelihood of interception by interlopers. They come from nowhere. I keep the warning sounds turned on when this map is up. Joann has got me out of a few potential scrapes! :cool:
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I admit it.... I am nothing without the 13th tas.
oh... I had two days on festers and one on mindy... K/H was about the same so?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I admit it.... I am nothing without the 13th tas.
lazs
................... and very little with em. :D
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Batz, you are also sounding like Toad in your interpretation of "strat player".
You are quite wrong there. I was beating this drum when Toad and Crew were still orbiting the planet.
My interpretation of "strat players" goes back to laser guided fluffers porking FHs and knocking radar out for 2 hours. I believe at that time Laz and I were the only ones calling it what it is.
The rest were "fly how you want/whine of the week" types. It wasn’t until they got into thicker o2 that they realized furballing is fun and there’s a group of folks who hate you for doing it. But even since then it has shifted even further out of balance.
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Originally posted by Steve
Sad but true. More than once in the last couple of days I've upped a plane to go after a darbar over an undefended base. I and whoever came w/ me would kill the attackers, then the enemy would evaporate in order to find an undefended field to de-ack and wait for vulch victims....darbar shows up several sectors away... rinse and repeat.
well steve....maybe we should call you before we decide to do anything.
as for killing all....i doubt that
thats what gets on my nerves with FesterMA....so many bases.
I don't know how many times we pushed Rooks or Nits just to get nothing out of it....
front lines stretched so much....you need lots to defend it all...ain't gonna happen.
its a cycle....push then get pushed back.
and I still don't understand....Milkin a Base...factory yes....Base.....not in my book....for christ sake...its a base....up and defend it bozo:aok
not a bad map....some improvements needed....only for rooks to reset the map was gettin nits to help....and yes they where helpin
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Ok Guyes.
Looks my thread opened interesting issue.
What is strat player?
The player who flys Jabos, Buffs porking fields.
What is furball player?
NiKi, Spit9 dweeb players that likes fast action.
At least that looks like from all your descriptions
Have you ever think that most of players are not first and not the second.
Yes sometimes I roll with Spit or La7 to defend base that is vulched, or sometime enter huge furrball - because I get to wrong plane in wrong time - I not really like it.
Sometimes I do bombing strat targets - to get perks for buffs or kill a ship with Stuka's 1800kb bomb. Or make town flat with bomber. A lot of times kill VH - am I strat guye? I don't think so
Most of players IMHO like to do all things to have fights, duels, to make some bombruns. All type of things. Someone likes furballs more and someone likes jabo missions more.
I personaly like to take a part in mission - to see coaperation on-line.
So lets don't tell strat players furball players.
And my point of view is that FesterMA is much more suitable for players that likes furballs only and not something in the middle. When most of terrains are balanced to make same good environment for all types of players from furballere up to strat players as you call them, when Fester is not balanced.
That is my main point of view
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I see nothing has changed.
So, I'll go back pheasant hunting.
BTW, you guys mentioning me don't know what the fox you're talking about. But my desire to engage on the BBS wanes sharply during bird season, so proceed.
Ta-ta. Back in 5 days or so. I expect the same ole stuff will still be served up in this thread.
"Dear Cod, please hustle up HTC and get TOD out so the "realists" can have a home.
Amen."
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Try to avoid HO with the birds. :D
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Originally posted by meddog
This is my third game. I use to play Warbirds (untill they raised their prices) and before that Air Worriior (before thay went out of bussiness) and this battle was never an issue cuz everyone seem to understand what the game was all about. , which is to take the enemy bases and win the reset.
Eh? The former producer of Air Warrior himself stated that the purpose of "strat" or base destruction/capture was to create air combat opportunities. Taking enemy bases was a means to an end and not the end itself.
That may or may not represent the design philosophy behind Aces High, but don't talk as if it was always the norm in these types of games. Hell, back in Dos AW and AW4W, you could only take a small number of neutral bases in the middle of the map. How exactly did one go about resetting that map?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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well steve....maybe we should call you before we decide to do anything.
Who is we? Are you one of the tards that puts a raid w/ nothing but fighters together on an undefended base, kills the ack, then gets in a vulch pattern? I ran into this a a few times the last few nights when FesterMA was up.... but after killing all the attackers, you weren't among the dead. So I don't think you are part of this particular "we".
I don't have a problem w/ people taking what they seem to feel are strategically relevent bases(that are undefended). I mean it's up to the team being attacked to defend.
I just find it ......pointless... or at least inefficient to look for fights/kills by deacking a base then getting in a vulch pattern w/ your 5 or 6 buds waiting for people to up(with no intent of taking the base). Sure vulches happen in the course of the game... but to plan such a thing instead of just flying to a fight or enemy darbar seems......well, tard-like. Then when resistance shows up and shoots down all the would be vulchers, the same now dead vulchers up farther away and try it at another base. It's not all bad though, me and a couple of other rooks piled up a bunch of kills as a result.
as for killing all....i doubt that
Huh? Were you referring to to something I said? If it was in reference to us killing all the attackers, well... we had little difficulty. I mean how challenging can it be for 2 or 3 guys to kill 6 or 8 planes that are all low slow and waiting for a vulch? And I remember that most of these vulchers were in niks... couple of typhoons.
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I have to agree with Beet1e and his chess analogy.
It's not that straters are bad or that furballers are bad, its about the two have a difficult time working together as a team. You need both to win.
This is my third game. I use to play Warbirds (until they raised their prices) and before that Air Worrior (before they went out of bussiness) and this battle was never an issue cuz everyone seemed to understand what the game was all about, which was (whether you like it or not) to take the enemy bases and win the reset.
For everyones information, the so called strater is not some mindless suicide building killing dweeb. The strater is some one who uses the resources available to accomplish the overall objective of the game. It requires(in varying degrees) the use of bombers and/or attack planes to eleminate the threats such as acks, VH's and FH's to some degree, fighters and GV's to suppress enemy fighters and GVs. goons to capture and resupply. It takes skill and experience in the use of team work and cooperation were furballing doesn't use any of these traits.
One of the main differences between straters and furballers are that once the action is gone (because the fuel is porked or FH or CV is down) so are the furballers leavng the straters hung out to dry with no support. The reason the so called straters go and pork fuel and drop FH's is because thats the only thing they can do the slow down or stop the advance of the enemy who is running over them due to numbers. They are not trying to rain on your furball parade.
The USMC squad and the USMC TFW have shown time and time again what can be accomplished with inferior numbers when people work together in a some what of a coordinated effort. One of the reasons the rooks seem to be so successful is because they have finally learned about the importance and the success to be had through team work and cooperation and as a result, more rooks have logged on to be a part of that.
The furballers complain about the straters killing their fun because they kill fuel or drop FH or CV and the strater complain because the furballers are killing their fun because they won't help them and if they do, leave them at a critical time because the "action" is gone. So what happeneds, No body has any fun cuz were too busy being pissed at the other guy.
You need the so called furballers. You need people to go out and kill enemy fighters so that others may be successful in their mission. You need the straters. You need people to go out and drop hangers, fuel or kill acks so that the furballers aren't being gang rapped everytime they turn around and leave the game out of frustration cuz they can't get any kills. It's only when we work as a team that we all have the fun that we desire. Something to think about
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Originally posted by Steve
Who is we? Are you one of the tards that puts a raid w/ nothing but fighters together on an undefended base, kills the ack, then gets in a vulch pattern? I ran into this a a few times the last few nights when FesterMA was up.... but after killing all the attackers, you weren't among the dead. So I don't think you are part of this particular "we".
If you killed all the attackers, how can you then claim that the base was undefended?
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I I was a sector South, and pursued the darbar to it's destination.. then did the same thing to the West... twice. The other couple of rooks wandered in via a similar fashion. I don't know the specifics of their flights except that they didn't up from the base that was being attacked. I know this because I was the first friendly on the scene and the base was already capped(we flew together to the subsequent incidents).
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OK, OK. I was just asking a question. No need to get all bent out of shape.
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Ugh... sorry if I was out of line. I thought you were baiting me. Please accept my apology.
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meddog....most of us play for an hour or two... we don't know or care what you are doing unless it ruins gameplay...
as for the rooks being more effective lately.... ya gotta be kidding... the rooks have more numbers lately.... when the bish had number... they were the ones talking about how they were all organized and skilled strat "chess masters of the sky"... before that it was the knits with the huge numbers and they were the talking credit for the same thing...
heres the clue strat sissies.... the only strat is.... the country with the most numbers "wins the war". and.... nobody that flies one or two hours at a time knows or cares who won.
lazs
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The USMC squad and the USMC TFW have shown time and time again what can be accomplished with inferior numbers when people work together in a some what of a coordinated effort.
Enough said on numbers
But by your thread you give the impression your game play is more important than mine
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bahh lazs ur wrong..we have been outnumbered many a times..
we kileld the barrks...that eneded the the tidal wave..
wow ..strat works...hmm
thsi post suks also..
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I will talk a little louder and more slowly..... THE COUNTRY WITH THE MOST NUMBERS "WINS" THE "WAR"...
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Well BGBMAW as we use to say on the Farm, When you cant seem to get through to a stubborn dog, the only thing left to do is shoot'em
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Originally posted by meddog
This is my third game. I use to play Warbirds (until they raised their prices) and before that Air Worrior (before they went out of bussiness) and this battle was never an issue cuz everyone seemed to understand what the game was all about, which was (whether you like it or not) to take the enemy bases and win the reset.
Actually, Air "Worrior" was never designed to be about "take the enemy bases and win the reset". It was never designed as a game of conquest and the conquest/strat portion of AW was always very poorly implemented. Having more than 1 or 2 capturable fields per map as the norm until AW2 came out (BTW, AW had been around for years before AW2 came out :)). In AW, field capture and strat came about for 1 reason. The folks that wanted to drive bombers wanted something to do besides bombing for points. Prior to this, the game was all about the fight (any of you old AW dweebs still remember half time? :D).
My point is that NONE of these games started out as "capture the fields and reset the arena" games. Fortunately, AH a much better job of incorporating the conquest portion of the game than it's competitors.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
My point is that NONE of these games started out as "capture the fields and reset the arena" games. Fortunately, AH a much better job of incorporating the conquest portion of the game than it's competitors.
Or unfortunately as the case may be :)
Dan/Slack
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the country with the most numbers wins the war... the country with the most numbers doesn't need to have any strategy... the country with the least numbers can have all the strat it wants and stop all the field taking it wants but it will still lose in the end. most people won't notice one way or the other..... this is as it should be.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
the country with the most numbers wins the war... the country with the most numbers doesn't need to have any strategy... the country with the least numbers can have all the strat it wants and stop all the field taking it wants but it will still lose in the end. most people won't notice one way or the other..... this is as it should be.
lazs
For someone that plays such a small amount of time and only a portion of the game you sure claim to have all the answers. The above statement is just ..............well untrue.
You say in couple posts up that "most of us play for an hour or two". That`s also untrue. The majority plays the game and plays a lot. You only play during Kiddie hour. Fun on the farm at happy Town time.
The only thing you can truely speak with authority on is the very, very little time you spend in the MA swapping kills, down in "but sniffer" mode. You haven`t got a clue what goes on in the MA or about any factor of gameplay other than the lame *** part you and the sister squad invented and carry out. Nuff said.
:D
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what was untrue again about what I said? as for "kiddie hour" wouldn't that be when all the adults were at work?
I do see tho that if you play for hours on end that you might get into some war "winning" mentality... but... seems to me that The mere fact that most people are on during prime time would tend to lend credence to what I say about most people only playing an hour or two at a time..
lazs
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lazs i may add a bit more to your post. The Country with over 200 players is the "superpower"
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Originally posted by lazs2
... seems to me
lazs
And that`s where it all goes haywire for ya. lmao
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poor little jakal pup... I can see why you are so defensive... you play countless hours and yet.... every time you are in a fighter there is a better than even chance that no matter what the guy you run into is flying or how badly he sucks at the game or what shape his plane is in or ... even if he initially sees you or not.... he has a better than even chance of handing you your butt.
I can see where tha furball would just be far too overwhelming for yu.... why you would wish to make the map more spread out and have the "missun" mentality.
I just don't think the rest of us should have to suffer for your lack of skill.
lazs
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You mean, it takes skill shootin someone that never saw ya in a furball, in a spit? Coulda fooled me.
Lazs.. I know it's hard, but try to focus for a second.
You play for five minutes to furball, and expect eeeveryone, and near everything in the game to change for you and your ilk.
People that play strat play more often then you and are more numerous than you.
HTC made maps are geared towards strat, player based maps, besides festerMA is geared towards strat.
But you still think that furballing is the one true path?
You are bored with the game.
We aren't.
I'de tell you to try arguing your point, rather than attacking anyone who doesn't agree, but... You have no point to argue.
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HTC made maps are geared towards strat, player based maps, besides festerMA is geared towards strat.
Actually Rut you're not quite correct. Yes, originally there was only other fighters to kill but people clamored for more variety.
The initial solution was to code AI buffs and c47s into a strat system, but people rejected it because the real appeal of these games was always shooting down another human being.
So strat and the maps were reworked in conjunction with widening the player base in hopes of capturing some folks willing to act as targets.
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sorry rutt... you are wrong again.. if you make bases close together it takes nothing from the strat girls and increases choice for everyone. you are saying that you can't survive in a sa demanding environment? fine.. but for the rest of us.... festers is a blast.
If people were so (LOL) "strat" oriented as yu say then there would be no problem... you wouldn't have to force the furballers to play your way. you wouldn't have to design a map to make it difficult for furballs to happen...
face it... everyone but you and maybe 2 other guys loves festers map and hates the pizza and big isle abortions... Infinity is allmost as bad but IMPROVED when the fields were, in effect, moved closer together.... pizza could be fixed too.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
face it... everyone but you and maybe 2 other guys loves festers map and hates the pizza and big isle abortions
No way of knowing that without a popup poll at logon. The BBS is not representative of the player base.
Fester's map was reset this week. How did that come about if everyone was furballing? And the answer is that not everyone was furballing. There must have been a whole bunch of strat guys capturing fields.
But why was the map reset? There are two possibilities. - There are far more strat players than you realise, with many guys working hard to capture and retain bases.
- Some folks decided they'd had enough of FesterMA, and worked to reset it knowing that it would be replaced by a small map.
Either way, you're wrong.
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Yeah, big maps suck because you fly up to 20k to have alt advantage and they trump you by going somewhere else. Sucks when you cant have alt advantage all the time.
If you can't find a fight on a big map, you are not looking. At least on a big map the bish cant sent two fighters to every field to take troops and fuel down.
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Lazs.... your squad isn't 'everyone'
I said it as clearly as i could.. it still bounced off that thick skull of yours. :)
You're one ignorant jackarse, ain't ya?
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but beetle..... festers map was "playing chess without kings" in your words.... like chess without kings.... it couldn't be won. guess you were wrong.
I think there are plenty of people who like to take bases and think 20 perk points and the free hawiian vacation for "winning" the war but.... they are all foreigners and children and unemployed in the wee hours of the morning... I have only seen maybe three resets in all the time I have played AH.
you can't have it both ways... either festers map allows for all types of gameplay or... it is "chess without kings" and can't be reset.
rutt... I probly am a ******* but the amount of smiley's used in a post is the normal way to judge degree of *******edness. more than 2 or three removes all doubt.
lazs
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No, Mr. Reagan, the First Amendment was written to protect us from religious tyranny
Hey Sixpence. I'm studing the Constitution and the forefathers who wrote it and I see no evidece to support your claim. Infact Reagan has it right and is supported by the Constitution and by the men who wrote it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
but beetle..... festers map was "playing chess without kings" in your words.... like chess without kings.... it couldn't be won. guess you were wrong.
Erm...no, I said it couldn't be won if everyone were to play a third of the game and fly like you. But it has been reset, so the strat movement is stronger than you thought!
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Originally posted by Rutilant
Lazs.... your squad isn't 'everyone'
I said it as clearly as i could.. it still bounced off that thick skull of yours. :)
You're one ignorant jackarse, ain't ya?
lazs isn't ignorant:)
Speaking of the BK's--where have yu guys been lately--Zip can't continue to steal all the kills on his own. It's wearing him out.
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no beetle... it simply means that when a country gets enough numbers and/or two low numbered countries are buzy with each other..... the normal steamroller is possible on every single map including festers.
the basic AH strat of "he who has the numbers has the strat" is well and functioning in festers map just as in all the others.... your hysteria and chess analodgies were for naught.
festers map is about choice. everyone has fun and the "strat" guys are still able to steamroller eventually and claim to be "chessmen of the sky"...
everyone is happy so.... lets get those fields moved closer together on the pizza abortion... whadaya say?
lazs
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Originally posted by meddog
Hey Sixpence. I'm studing the Constitution and the forefathers who wrote it and I see no evidece to support your claim. Infact Reagan has it right and is supported by the Constitution and by the men who wrote it.
" "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature [Congress - ed.] should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and state." - Thomas Jefferson
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Originally posted by lazs2
poor little jakal pup... I can see why you are so defensive... you play countless hours and yet.... every time you are in a fighter there is a better than even chance that no matter what the guy you run into is flying or how badly he sucks at the game or what shape his plane is in or ... even if he initially sees you or not.... he has a better than even chance of handing you your butt.
I can see where tha furball would just be far too overwhelming for yu.... why you would wish to make the map more spread out and have the "missun" mentality.
I just don't think the rest of us should have to suffer for your lack of skill.
lazs
lmao Humpy The Wonder Pooch peeks out from behind someones ankle and whimpers again. Until you get out of the little shell you play in you can`t tell anyone about nothing pertaining to the game. The prearranged, play it safe ,kill swapping you and the sister squad does is ...... well besides being lame as hell , I belive in common terms would be called chicken poop.:D
You try to speak for the furballer that actualy plays the game, but you can`t because what you define as furball is a far cry that what most players define as furball. Quit hiding behind everyone elses skirt and play the game. Then talk to us and share your infinite knowledge. Until then stay with the warm milk and thorazine treatment.
:D :D
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Originally posted by lazs2
but beetle..... festers map was "playing chess without kings" in your words.... like chess without kings.... it couldn't be won. guess you were wrong.
lazs
Humpster, this may come as a shock but the map was "let" to be reset by popular opinion and just plain boredom. Aint that a hoot?:D
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lazs,,the maps have been reset many times, i have seen atleast a dozen resets..while ive been on...
1 more thing..i think ur a hunk of crap..the way you bad mouth AKs map..why dont you make your own and stop putting other peopels maps down constantly.."AK map is an abortion"..makes me want to burn your corn shack down in dixon...happy floods this winter..and may your traffic on I 80 increase when ur on it
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Nice quote Sixpence I take it your refering to the letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danburry Baptist Church because there is nothing written in our Constitution about the seperation of church and state. But do you actually know what it means or are you just like all the other sheep? Do you have any clue to who our founding fathers were, Who and what influenced them, who they quoted in their speeches and Biographies when they were writing our Declaration Of Indepencence and our Constitution. How about the types of Government that were established when the Puritans and the Pilgrams came over and why they chose that type of Government. If I had to venture a guess i'de say the answer is no.
Why don't you read" Christianity and the Constitution" by John Eidsmoe. Then get back to me about the 1st Amendment And while your at it read the judicial rulings prior to the 1930's. After reading these you will learn that the words are not just arbitrary words but have actual meaning to the people that wrote/spoke them.
1st of all when they say or wrote the word State, they meant (a) state, not the federal government. Meaning that they didn't want the church to run the local Government. They wanted a seperate intity to run the Government but one that was centered around God, Religion and Biblical laws. Therefore the "Seperation of Church and State" phrase was about who should run the Government and not about public or personal displays of religion on government property.
Secondly you will notice that Jeferson said Congress shall not.... since it's Congress who passes laws. It was designed to protect the peoples right to religious freedom not to shield them from religion. This is the "Freedom of Religion" phrase not the "Freedon from Religion" phrase. You will also know after reading about our founding fathers is that most of them were Calvinist and the colleges of those days were theological colleges
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You saw what Jefferson wrote, and what he meant, what more do you want? Or did you live back then and know him. I guess you are the all mighty and know all. Through quotes of Jefferson, he clearly meant a separation of church and state. But this is all i'm gonna say, you seem to have it all figured out being a higher authority and all. Here is one point of view, but i'm sure you will pass it off as a biased opinion from a leftist site.
http://sonsofliberty.org/sanesociety/religion_and_1st_amendment.html
The word "state" also has an interesting usage, the one most prevalent during the 18th century being "a body of people occupying a defined territory and organized under a sovereign government"! So Jefferson's "wall of separation between church and state" was being precisely correct: the intent of the first clause of the First Amendment was to prohibit government from imposing, through federal law, any part of any church's religious concepts/practices/etc. upon the American citizenry: the "body of people occupying a defined territory (the United States of America) and organized under a sovereign government (the federal government: the fictitious entity created by the Constitution, which was "sovereign": independent of and equal to all other existing governments in the world, especially that of Great Britain).
BTW, it was written to shield the government from religion.
http://sonsofliberty.org/sanesociety/puritans.html
So if some of these laws were enacted today in Iowa, this would be what our founding fathers would approve of? If you say yes, I would disagree. You can read what you want and interpret it your way and I can read what I want and interpret it my way. We can read the same thing and come to 2 different conclusions.
http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html
You say you should know what they were thinking when they wrote the constitution. In Jefferson's letter he makes it quite clear what he was thinking. He put it in writing.
What you think think doesn't make you a sheep. You are entitled to your opinion. Unless, of course, religion gets into government, then your opinion would mean nothing if it didn't recognize that religion. BTW, bring it to the Oclub before we get Skuzzified.
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
lazs,,the maps have been reset many times, i have seen atleast a dozen resets..while ive been on...
1 more thing..i think ur a hunk of crap..the way you bad mouth AKs map..why dont you make your own and stop putting other peopels maps down constantly.."AK map is an abortion"..makes me want to burn your corn shack down in dixon...happy floods this winter..and may your traffic on I 80 increase when ur on it
:lol
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my... the chess masters of the sky sure do lose it eh? jakal... I didn't know the truth would bother you so much... If it bothers you so much then.... practice until yu can develop the skills needed to at least put up a decent fight... I think it is now a mindset... when you see another player... a red one... you just go "what's the use" and roll over with your little jakal hind legs spred and wimper.
bgb... I would welcome a visit from you... leave the nag home tho she seems to be too much for you and I don't need the aggrevation. I would get a life and just leave her but then... that's just me.
lazs
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Humpy, just go up your little pink training wheels plane and vulch your second account, save the films , then share your masterly skills with us dweeb. It`s about the same thing your doing now, but you just want have to whine to lap sitters to let you do it. Just think, you can be an Air Force of one. :D Until you can speak on the subject of "the game" , spare yourself the humiliation of sitting in the corner mumbling to yourself.
I can just visulize the headlines now......
The 3rd Lameazz Division Of The Humpy Brigade Invades Putzwania.
:rolleyes:
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Well, no matter what the map has been, i've managed to get shot down many times, so someone is having no problem finding a target.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
So Jefferson's "wall of separation between church and state" was being precisely correct: the intent of the first clause of the First Amendment was to prohibit government from imposing, through federal law, any part of any church's religious concepts/practices/etc. upon the American citizenry ...
Nor can it subsidize, sponsor, or grant any preference to any church or religious belief.
Oh, and Meddog? if the founders had wanted the government to be run by an entity "that was centered around God, Religion and Biblical laws", perhaps you can explain why Article VI of the Constitution specifically states that no office -- federal or state, executive, legislative, or judicial -- can have a religious requirement?
Article VI
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
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jakal.. I don't think that all the films in the world would help you... yu seem to have a mindset that says you can't win unless the other guy is away from his computer or the map has put him to sleep.... festers map keeps people interested and awake so...
heck.. even the BB is pretty much deserted during the big maps and you can babble away... The less fun something is it seems.... the better for you.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
jakal.. I don't think that all the films in the world would help you... yu seem to have a mindset that says you can't win unless the other guy is away from his computer or the map has put him to sleep.... festers map keeps people interested and awake so...
heck.. even the BB is pretty much deserted during the big maps and you can babble away... The less fun something is it seems.... the better for you.
lazs
The films were for your enjoyment Humpy, not mine. I believe you would get off on watching yourself vulch your second account. I mean after all your kill swapping thingy seems to really toot your little horn.:D
Now for the "festers map keeps people interested and awake" statement. I know it`s hard for you to concentrate and comprehend in your delicate condition, but we`ll go over it again. #1 You don`t have a clue what interests folks in the game as you just come in for your mini bursts of kill swapping then your gone.
#2 (We could have avoided repeating this one if you could read and comprehend the earlier posts or chew buble gum and walk down the street at the same time as far as that goes,but I understand.:D ). The map kept people so intensely interested that it was "let" to be reset by popular choice. Go figure!
:D
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jakal... I don't have a second account.. why would I? I think we all understand that it is your inability to do well that motivates your wanting to not run into any action... Allways that chance that the next guy you face will have dozed off and you may have an allmost even chance of defeating him then.... if you don't auger trying that is.
lazs
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Very thick folks here....it's all about choice and fun for EVERYONE....strat and furballs can co-exist if the map is designed in a way to allow that to happen....the strat contingent cannot seem to handle nor want to allow furballers to have the fun they are looking for.
You now have large maps where you can milkrun til you're blue in the face...Festers map came along and gave furballers a faster, easier and lower fight and some strat players cannot deal with that.
Festers map allows you to strat all you want to...of course, you'll have to take buffs up to a realistic alt or have them shot down...perhaps that's what displeases you.
Then again, it's probably just the fact that strat players are limited in ability and proven here on a daily basis, is their true talent of wailing like newborns...just think....if you could fight as well as you wail, you too would want a map which offers air to air combat rather than your placid, risk free air to ground exercises which promotes only the shrinking of your nads up into your sack....be men and fly like it....to be known as Women With Wings would personally bother me.
Later Girls
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Because in many colonies in order to hold public office, you had to be a member of the church and those that were not members of the church, could not by civil law, vote or hold public office. So this Amendment was designed to allow everyone the right to vote and to hold public office requardles of religious affiliation. It had nothing to do with keeping religion out of government nor does it prove that our constitution/government was not based on Biblical principles.
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Originally posted by lazs2
jakal... I don't have a second account.. why would I? I think we all understand that it is your inability to do well that motivates your wanting to not run into any action... Allways that chance that the next guy you face will have dozed off and you may have an allmost even chance of defeating him then.... if you don't auger trying that is.
lazs
Humpy, I`ve noticed when your confronted with any kind of facts you always attempt the old smoke screen, double talk or what your best at, mindless babbling. None of them seems to work for ya very well. The whimpering is sorta entertaining though I must admit.
Your sorta like when your out bass fishing and you hook into a big old carp. Just as soon as you see it`s a carp you realize when it`s landed that you have to throw the slimey, ugly, useless bastige back, but it`s still fun to play it on the end of the line for a while.:D
As far as me running into any action. It`s damn sure a fact that I actualy see some action, whereas on the other hand all you do is kill swap and butt sniff. Why don`t you post something on the fine art of Butt sniffin. That`s the only thing remotely, and might I say far remotely associted with AH that you could possibly speak with any kind of authority on, but then again no one would be interested but you.
Don`t forget the warm milk before you tuck in and if your a good little boy maybe some cartoons tommorow.
;)
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You're embarassing yourself.
yowser
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Originally posted by Jackal1
As far as me running into any action. It`s damn sure a fact that I actualy see some action, whereas on the other hand all you do is kill swap and butt sniff. Why don`t you post something on the fine art of Butt sniffin.
;)
Getting a little on the kiddy side here Jackal--time for a tad more mature thought me thinks
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Originally posted by sax
Getting a little on the kiddy side here Jackal--time for a tad more mature thought me thinks
Just getting down to required level to communicate with Humpy.
I refer you to Humpy`s, (Liz), last few posts. Read them then come tell me about maturity.:D
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Well the "butt sniff" comment no doubt took some thought..
I'll have to file that one away...you never know when I might need to use that phrase.
I wish I'd thought of it..
Continue..
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Originally posted by nopoop
Well the "butt sniff" comment no doubt took some thought..
I'll have to file that one away...you never know when I might need to use that phrase.
I wish I'd thought of it..
Continue..
:D Was invented by the BKs poop. try to keep up.
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I think you ought to stop pickin on Lazs....alot of us like him.
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and... don't forget.... I'm lovable and... and... sensitive.
Oh well... try to help some people and they go berserk.. Once you face your lack of skill and embrace it you will be far less hostile and defensive jackal. It's not a secret... you are fooling no one. take that first step little fella.... come on... give us a big hug and a smile and wipe away those tears... we are here for ya...
lazs
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_3.05 for continued repetitive smoke screen attempts.
-2.00 for hiding behind a lap sitter.
:D
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Originally posted by Rude
I think you ought to stop pickin on Lazs....alot of us like him.
Lazs ? ... Lazs who ? ... I used to know a guy that flew under that name ... ;)
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summer reruns starting early??? :)
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Originally posted by lazs2
and... don't forget.... I'm lovable and... and... sensitive.
Oh well... try to help some people and they go berserk.. Once you face your lack of skill and embrace it you will be far less hostile and defensive jackal. It's not a secret... you are fooling no one. take that first step little fella.... come on... give us a big hug and a smile and wipe away those tears... we are here for ya...
lazs
ROFLMAO That has to be the lamest, sadest watermelon I have ever seen attempted.
You still haven`t got a clue , do ya?:D
Look aroud ya slick. Ya might be surprised.
Public Annoucement: Thsi E.L. dude is the badest MFer in the valley>
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you are never going to get better at this with that attitude jakal.. We can help.. learn to fight... imagine what it would be like to not wet yourself when you seen another con that knew you were there.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Back.
Well, it was a BIG map. However, the "furball faction" usually managed to corner the sissy strateegery cockbirds into places where they had to quit running and engage.
There were some furious fights; the birds complained of overmodeled shotgun rounds, but let me tell you... those 1 1/4 ounce #5 Winchester Supremes at 1400 FPS are simply awesome. So the cockbird snide comments about "Winlazers" were just laughed off by our side.
I saw a cockbird lose an HO to my old college roomate at about 20 yards... not pretty; clearly an instant "pilot kill". The puff of feathers hanging in the still morning air was a pretty kewl graphic.
Superb dog work too.. this game has it all. Points, flushes, retrieves to hand. Got some pretty pictures.
All in all, a wonderful trip. I think I'll go back to that Main Arena after this Thanksgiving holiday nonsense is over. I do my best Thanksgiving out in the fields as the sun comes up. For days like the ones I just had, I'm truly thankful.
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Mr. Toad! You have been missed! I've been pining for a really good debate, and all I've had this past few days is a bunch of fatuous topics with the usual deplorable grammar/spelling/syntax. :(:(
Hehe, I got a new car yesterday, and the first thing I did with it was to kill a bird! Not as efficiently as you do it - damned sparrow divebombed my windcreen - an HO which the sparrow lost. Last time an object hit my windscreen that hard was last month in CA. We had embarked upon a visit to the wine country as recommended by Mr & Mrs Airhead. Driving N out of SF, just approaching GG Bridge, one of those traffic cone things became airborne on a gust of wind and smacked our windcreen causing it to shatter. We had to return the car and get a replacement - could hardly turn up at Lazs's hovel with a busted windscreen. :D
Good to see you still hang out with long term friends - college roomie. That's a mark of a man. :) I have five male friends in my will - I've known each of them more than 20 years, some more than 30.
Jackal! Lazs is OK. He has what I might consider an *unusual* lifestyle. He's a daft bugger, but he's OK really. :p
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I can tell you that right after the "piece-O" map festerma is a relief.
Here's what I have noticed since flying AH over the years:
-As much as many here accuse people of being whiners, there is an awful lot of that going on
-Way too many can never be satisfied, no matter what
- the attention span of way too many is entirely too short
I have also noticed that each map offers something different. And yes, even the pizza map supplies some with a sense of enjoyment and accomplishment. And with all of this choice, people still have a choice; they can simply not fly on a map that offers them only frustration:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by lazs2
you are never going to get better at this with that attitude jakal.. We can help.. learn to fight... imagine what it would be like to not wet yourself when you seen another con that knew you were there.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Still don`t get it, do ya?:D
A Humpy babe lost in the wilderness.