Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: mason22 on November 17, 2003, 01:16:37 PM

Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 17, 2003, 01:16:37 PM
I'm currently running a G2 ULTRA 64 meg.

I'm curious as to what card would begin to suffer from a 1.53 Mhz CPU?

just going through some upgrade research/options. Appreciate any help as always.

thanks.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: bloom25 on November 17, 2003, 02:01:47 PM
For an AXP 1800+ (1.53 GHz), probably around a Radeon 9700 Pro or GeForce FX 5900 Ultra.  An 1800+ should be fast enough for a Radeon 9600 Pro/XT or GeForce FX 5700 Ultra to get most of their potential perfomance.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 18, 2003, 10:57:34 AM
I was going to say, typically the very high end cards are not working hard until you get past 2.4Ghz, but bloom25 is quite right.

You can put in a high end video card, but your CPU will not be able to push the card close to the limits, but you will see some benefit.

A 9600Pro or XT would be a good choice (I like the XT, cooler running/less power, faster than the 9600Pro, overclocks like a banshee, and no price premium for it).
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 18, 2003, 11:43:05 AM
awesome...thanks guys. exactly what i needed.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Wanker on November 19, 2003, 11:14:35 AM
Don't forget that even though his CPU may not tax the 9600 all that much, he's still going to benefit from being able to use FSAA and AF.

Mason, make sure to enable Anti-Aliasing and Anisotropic filtering, and you will really see a huge difference between the GF 2 and the ATI 9600.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 19, 2003, 11:43:56 AM
that was on of the biggest benefits banana....i've been trying to get back "in the game" in hardware. And the FSAA was one thing i have never really used. But looking at all the tests and reviews, i'm going to have to get with the program and upgrade.

I think i'm going to go with the 9600 XT, problem is, i cant find a shipping date from ATI or anyone else. Not a real big deal now since i'm trying to squeeze the budget to gain funds for the purchase. I've got some time to spare.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 19, 2003, 12:36:19 PM
The 9600XT is already shipping.  Problem is, ATI cannot build em fast enough.  

I was at Best Buy the other and they had the shelf space for the cards, and I asked them when they were going to get some in?  The sales clerk said we got a shipment yesterday, but they were gone by the end of the day.
Seems it is going to be a very popular card.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: bloom25 on November 19, 2003, 12:41:56 PM
That card is in allocation from the supplier (Synnex) I can look at.  That means only a limited number of cards can be sold to each account.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 19, 2003, 12:44:35 PM
Seems ATI badly underestimated the demand for the product.

Or, they are ramping up slowly.  Reasonable thing to do with this card.  The first low-k die card on the market.  I would be a bit careful about cranking up the production to high volumes as well.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 19, 2003, 01:18:47 PM
found one for 160, but i'm debating waiting a few more weeks to see what happens with ATI making more or prices dropping....

decisions decisions.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 19, 2003, 01:46:16 PM
$160 U.S. for a 9600XT?  You best grab it.  It is a new card and its price is not going to drop in the near term.

That's a great price for that card, by the way.

ATI is not going to have anymore big releases until early next year.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 19, 2003, 02:41:36 PM
LOL, they went up $5 from my last post!!

anyhow, ordered and on the way! WOOHOO!!

I also called to verify they had them in stock, 27 left!  :aok
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 19, 2003, 02:47:20 PM
You got a heck of a deal.  Heck, the 9600Pro goes for more than that right now and it is a slower card.

I think someone fubared on that price.  Where you getting it?
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 19, 2003, 02:55:00 PM
it's a Saphire ATI 9600 XT 128

from a few places listed on pricewatch.

the ATI retail version was as low as 180.

https://www.allstarshop.com/shop/product.asp?pid=8054

https://www.allstarshop.com/shop/product.asp?pid=8174

I a brown box buyer, don't need all the bells and whistles. Everytime i've read reviews on the exact same card but with different manufacturers, they've always been within 3-10 fps of each other. Unless they have some major differences like ddr speeds or clock rates, it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 25, 2003, 08:27:38 PM
well, bad news. I can't for the life of me get this card to stabilize.

I've tried everything (or so i think):

new VIA 4in1's
updated to latest directx 9.0b
tried different cat drivers to no avail.
tried agp settings in bios (agp 2x, 4x, aperture etc.)

seems like anything that taxes the card it just shuts down, locks up (turning off the monitor), or reboots. No warnings, nothin.

Had AH working last night, but AHII once out of the tower will lockup (hard lock).

no blue screens.

I'm about to RMA this little heathan unless someone has any other ideas.

my setup:

azza 366x/ AS Mother board
XP1800+ (non OC'd)
512 RAM
scsi 2940uw with 15gig sCSI and 4.5 gig scsi drives

works like a charm with my old GF2 ULTRA 64meg.


:confused: :confused: :confused:
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: bloom25 on November 26, 2003, 12:04:35 AM
It could be a heat/power problem.  Try running the card with the side of the case off and maybe a fan blowing in for some extra cooling.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 26, 2003, 07:10:27 AM
What do you have the AGP bus speed set to?  Not familiar with that motherboard, but if it claims to support 8X, roll back to 4X speed and make very sure to disable fast writes.

What kind of power supply do you have?  I doubt it is power as the 9600XT is a pretty conservative board for power.  I would be surprised if it was heat due to the low power requirements, but anything is possible.

Also, what steps did you take to remove the NVidia drivers?  What version of the NVidia drivers were you using?  If you were using the 5x.xx drivers, you will need to reinstall DirectX when moving to ATI (or any other manufacturer for that matter).
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 26, 2003, 09:47:19 AM
don't think it's a heat issue. had the cover off, and on, the card was never hot to the touch.

steps i did: (i had directx 8a or whatever the latest was before 9 already installed)

bios only goes up to 4x.

- removed nvidia 3X.XX drivers. uninstalled from hardware mangr.

- double checked in the remove software for any nvidia stuff, nothing. card is now running on MS drivers.

- shut down, installed new card

- installed cat 3.8 from ATI's site  (OS would lock on the light blue welcome screen)

- reboot into safe mode, uninstall cats.

- installed latest VIA drivers (hyperion)

- installed directx 9.0b

- reboot, installed cats from Sapphire CD-rom, this would get me into windows, but i would have random shutdowns or lockups (monitor would turn off and no response from cpu)

-  turned down bios to 2x and 64meg aperture (from 128): still getting same probs.

i'm really thinking it's a MB issue it's a few years old, which is really old via computer standards.

what i'd like to do is test it on a setup similar to mine, the MB is a KT266 north and south bridge chipset.

it's hard to remember everything i did last night, but i think i hit most of it above. It's really frustrating becuase i haven't been able to elminate anything yet. power, software, hardware, no telling what the prob is.

i would like to keep the card, i have an extra HD and scsi card i'd like to build another machine wth, but don't have the cash for a new CPU and MB. Then again, i don't want to wait until it's too late to RMA this if it's really not going to work.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 26, 2003, 10:39:08 AM
You need to grab some NVidia driver cleaner.  Using just the NVidia removal tool does not actually remove the NVidia drivers.

Did you check in the ATI control to make sure Fast Writes are disabled?  This will cause stability problems if it is enabled.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 26, 2003, 10:43:41 AM
yes, i did disable fast writes as well. (forgot about that).

so i'm assuming that anything left over by nvidia will/could cause conflicts with ATI?

is the nvidia cleaner software an nvidia product or something i should google for? (never used it before, so i'm not familiar with it)
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 26, 2003, 11:21:35 AM
The cleaners are third party programs.  I think one of them is called "Detonator Destroyer", and there are others, but I cannot recall the names.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Pfunk on November 26, 2003, 11:51:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
The cleaners are third party programs.  I think one of them is called "Detonator Destroyer", and there are others, but I cannot recall the names.



http://download.guru3d.com/detonator/

Detonator Destroyer will only work on Win95,98,98SE,and ME.  So if you have XP or 2000 youll need to use another one.   I have used Nvidia nasty file remover with good success, never tried detonator RIP though
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: DAVENRINO on November 26, 2003, 12:08:17 PM
Driver Cleaner  also works well with XP to remove either Nvidia or ATI files.

DJ229 - AIR MAFIA
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: minus on November 26, 2003, 03:14:25 PM
mason 22 did your ATi card have external plug  for voltage ? many latest card  , especialy hercules dont have and they work fine when agp voltage set to 1.6 , helped on frend s card maybe it will help u to


BTW any blue  scren  related when using ATI card i solwed 99 % be upgrading PSU ;)  and there vas  many folkz  around me who have that problem :D
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 26, 2003, 03:29:54 PM
The 9600XT does not have an external power plug.  New GPU/silicon design reduces the power consumption dramatically.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: minus on November 26, 2003, 04:00:01 PM
skuzzy,  when i change  the AGP voltage on asus a7n8x from 1.5 to 1.6 the lock up ctd and other stuf disapeared on one of my frend s PC and frend using brand new 9600 XT card

and all HERCULES made  aTI 9600 card pro or standart also dont have external power suply and thye are not XT model
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 26, 2003, 04:37:45 PM
Odd you would need to change the voltage levels, but I suppose a motherboard not properly laid out could cause a problem that pumping the voltage up would overcome.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 26, 2003, 05:44:05 PM
i think fatty and i are going to try and install it on an extra machine he has. it's a fairly old machine with an AMD slot proc.

i'll update on this when i get some news, maybe later this weekend.

thanks for your support skuzzy, bloom and others. always appreciate that!
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: Skuzzy on November 26, 2003, 08:57:46 PM
I'd be interested to hear the results.  I know several people who have purchased this card and are really liking it.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on November 26, 2003, 10:17:39 PM
yah, that's why i'm so bummed. I did use the "Driver Cleaner 2.6", it found some ATI stuff that was still left over. All clean now.

I'm going to attempt another try on a new HD and OS install this weekend, as well as try out Fatty's machine.

i'll definitely post results. wish me luck!

did some more cleaning and Driver Cleaner missed  a file: "atiiiexx.dll"  

did some googlin' on that file and found this:
http://www.bugtoaster.com/dw15/Reports/ImageVersionDetail.asp?ImageVersionID=1616

not sure what that means, but i get the impression it cuases bugs or crashes of some sort.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: FOGOLD on November 27, 2003, 01:32:48 AM
I watch this thread with  interest. I am about to upgrade a Ti500 to an XP5700 Ultra (MSI). I hope that these issues won't apply with upgrading Nvidia to Nvidia! Of course I'll clear out all drivers first!

Athlon XP2000
MSI K7t2662 Pro RU
512 MB DDR 2100
Win XP Home
Ti 500 30.82 Drivers (currently)
Audigy player.
Title: When is too much video card for an 1800+ (1.53Mhz)
Post by: mason22 on December 04, 2003, 04:29:44 PM
well, bad luck again.


tried an install on a "white box" machine here at work.

intel 933 mhz
CUSL2 MB
win2000

locks up in the same "welcome" screen (or where that welcome screen would be in XP).

RMA, here i come.