Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Virage on November 17, 2003, 07:51:23 PM
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http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_article.php?articleId=26483&lang=en
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He makes some good points, damn shame he can't keep his politics out of it.
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More from him:
White supremacy (http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/210.html)
Wesley Clark is an Ass-Kisser (http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000442.html)
Slobodan Milosevic is no war criminal (http://english.pravda.ru/yougoslavia/2001/08/01/11492.html)
We are not faced with a choice between socialism and capitalism, but socialism or barbarism (http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/column66k5.html)
Me: Sorry, This guy is a Nutbag (http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20030317/007976.html)
Jeez, I can't believe I have never heard of this freak. Oh wait, yes I can. Read some of his stuff, he is a raving ****in' lunitic.
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Interesting articles Gadfly.
Are you sure he is a nutbag?
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One word
PROZAC
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Pretty sure, are you not?
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What they didn't tell you is that over a million and a half Iraqis died between 1991 and 2003 from malnutrition, medical neglect, and bad sanitation. Over half a million of those who died were the weakest: the children, especially very young children.
And they are not going to forget that the United States government was largely responsible for the deaths of half a million kids.
UMMM THEY SELL OIL....THEY GET FOOD!
THEY GET FOOD....IF THEY SELL OIL?
how hard is this to understand? The amount of oil that IRAQ can produce buys a ***** LOAD of *****ING FOOD and MEDICINE!
all these posts a letters about sadam being a humanitarian award winner just fills my heart with warmth.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
how hard is this to understand? The amount of oil that IRAQ can produce buys a ***** LOAD of *****ING FOOD and MEDICINE!
The problem was clean drinking water. The Bush Sr. adiminstration targeted water purification plants and infrastucture, knowing if sanctions were then placed on certain commodities hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would die. They then sponcered a resolution to put sanctions on those commodities. The Bush Sr., and Clinton administrations got regular reports on the situation on Iraq, and why it was happening.
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Thrawn, not that is is worth arguing with you, but can you back that up? My understanding is that those facilites were speciffically not hit.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
My understanding is that those facilites were speciffically not hit.
Sure give me about 1/2 hr, it's been awhile I have to do a bit of digging.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Sure give me about 1/2 hr, it's been awhile I have to do a bit of digging.
tick tock tick tock
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"During allied bombing campaigns on Iraq the country's eight multi-purpose dams had been repeatedly hit, simultaneously wrecking flood control, municipal and industrial water storage, irrigation and hydroelectric power. Four of seven major pumping stations were destroyed, as were 31 municipal water and sewerage facilities - 20 in Baghdad, resulting in sewage pouring into the Tigris. Water purification plants were incapacitated throughout Iraq."
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/091700-01.htm
The allies also target the Iraqi electical grid which had a further cascading effect on the water/sewage treatment infrastructure.
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Published on Sunday, September 17, 2000 in the Sunday Herald (Scotland)
Allies Deliberately Poisoned Iraq Public Water Supply In Gulf War
Sorry, Thrawn, you will have to get a better source than that.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
Published on Sunday, September 17, 2000 in the Sunday Herald (Scotland)
Allies Deliberately Poisoned Iraq Public Water Supply In Gulf War
Sorry, Thrawn, you will have to get a better source than that.
What would you find acceptable? And why is the one posted not?
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Because any source that would say that we poisoned someones water is inherently biased, as well as stupid. Big 3, Thrawn-ABC, BBS or even CBC.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
Because any source that would say that we poisoned someones water is inherently biased, as well as stupid. Big 3, Thrawn-ABC, BBS or even CBC.
Every source is inherently biased. You can say the same think no matter what source I use.
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Biased, yes, but some sources will be held to a higher standard than others. If it does not make any of those three, than I tend not to take it at face value. Especially when the headline contains nonsense such as that.
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You are setting a open ended standard, that you can apply to any source I use. Do you refute the data present or just have exception to the source?
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I refute the data, due to an unsustantiated source.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
I refute the data, due to an unsustantiated source.
Fair enough, I will endevour to find another. But so you don't stay up on this account. I'll be back tomorrow night at around the same time.
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Here is the relevant data from your link, I suppose it could be spun to say that the US poisoned the water, but I would say that Saddam did the posioning, not the US.
IRAQ HAD NOT
COMPLETED THE MAJOR PURCHASE AND DELIVERY OF SPARE MEMBRANES
BEFORE INVADING KUWAIT. ATTEMPTS TO PROCURE MEMBRANES SINCE
THE UN SANCTIONS WERE IMPOSED HAVE FAILED. SINCE THE ATTEMPT
TO IMPORT MEMBRANES CORRESPONED TO THEIR NORMAL REPLACEMENT PERIOD, IRAQ
APPARENTLY DID NOT STOCKPILE ABUNDANT SPACE MEMBRANES OR CHEMICALS AND
PROBABLY HAD NO MORE THAN A 2-MONTH SUPPLY PRIOR TO THE INVASION.
The relevant Fact being do not ****ing invade your neighbors, and if you do, make sure you are prepared.
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Originally posted by Gadfly
Here is the relevant data from your link, I suppose it could be spun to say that the US poisoned the water, but I would say that Saddam did the posioning, not the US.
That info doesn't cut the mustard in my books. It doesn't support my original statement.
I can easily hypothosis that the allied bombs did destroy those water treatment plants. Something caused those hundreds of thousands of people to get the disease in the first place. Disease that are caused by unpure drinking water. And seeing as there were a crap load of bombs falling from allied planes I'm pretty sure that was the cause, and unsubstantiated source seem to confirm this. I'm going to run with this a bit longer.
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Thrawn, they did not bomb water treatment plants, period. There is no military need, nor even a strategic use in doing so. We did not bomb them! show me the original source that says we did.
edit-and I am sure it does not cut the mustard with you, since it does not support your supposition, but it is the fact, as presented by your own link.
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Yes Comrade Virage, excellent words for those baby killing robots.
Deth to Amreeka!
Bosh eez great shaitan!
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Originally posted by Gadfly
but it is the fact, as presented by your own link.
Ah so the source is crap, until it supports your conjecture?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
"During allied bombing campaigns on Iraq the country's eight multi-purpose dams had been repeatedly hit, simultaneously wrecking flood control, municipal and industrial water storage, irrigation and hydroelectric power. Four of seven major pumping stations were destroyed, as were 31 municipal water and sewerage facilities - 20 in Baghdad, resulting in sewage pouring into the Tigris. Water purification plants were incapacitated throughout Iraq."
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/091700-01.htm
The allies also target the Iraqi electical grid which had a further cascading effect on the water/sewage treatment infrastructure.
A valid military tactic
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Originally posted by mrblack
A valid military tactic
Any tactic can be valid as long as it works. But not all are moral.
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those dams were hit but were never breached. It was comon knowledge after GW1 that Bush Sr warned sadam if he used chemical weapons those dams would be no more and Bahgdad would be under about 10 ft of water.
I'm pretty sure that was the cause
Something caused those hundreds of thousands of people to get the disease in the first place
That info doesn't cut the mustard in my books. It doesn't support my original statement.
WOA somthing doesnt support your orriginal statement, call the press. What about my statement that said Iraq oil for food program would have baught a TON of food and medicine and it never got to the people that needed.
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Yes Comrade Virage, excellent words for those baby killing robots.
Deth to Amreeka!
Bosh eez great shaitan!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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"It was comon knowledge after GW1 that Bush Sr warned sadam if he used chemical weapons those dams would be no more"
gonna need a cite there. i was there and have no memory of such plans or "common knowledge" to that effect.
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saddam had a oil for palaces program and his sons liked sports cars and gold plated guns.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
"It was comon knowledge after GW1 that Bush Sr warned sadam if he used chemical weapons those dams would be no more"
gonna need a cite there. i was there and have no memory of such plans or "common knowledge" to that effect.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/iraq/archives/17six.htm (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/iraq/archives/17six.htm)
there is alot of other information out there on this subject this was the first one I found
Such tactics could be part of a larger scorched-earth campaign Saddam would execute in his final days. The United States has gathered intelligence indicating that he would destroy mosques and power plants in an attempt to pin blame on western invaders. Saddam could even destroy the four key dams controlling the water supply in Iraq, flooding the southern marshlands and potentially killing thousands. During Operation Desert Storm, the U.S. military considered such a tactic to flood Baghdad, and now planners face the threat of Saddam's pulling out every stop to slow down a U.S. advance. Says Judith Yaphe of the National Defense University, "I don't trust him to leave anything sacred."
from what Iunderstand (i have alot of friends that are GW1 vets) people back home knew a HELL of alot more about what was going onover there than the boots on the ground did thanks to the news. We watched the whole war live on TV while the boots on the ground watched it LIVE but only saw there little corner and then some.
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His "letter" is nothing but pure unadulterated horse s***.
"What they didn't tell you is that over a million and a half Iraqis died between 1991 and 2003 from malnutrition, medical neglect, and bad sanitation. Over half a million of those who died were the weakest: the children, especially very young children.
My son who is over there now has a baby. We visit with our grandson every chance we get. He is eleven months old now. Lots of you have children, so you know how easy it is to really love them, and love them so hard you just know your entire world would collapse if anything happened to them. Iraqis feel that way about their babies, too. And they are not going to forget that the United States government was largely responsible for the deaths of half a million kids."
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Any tactic can be valid as long as it works. But not all are moral.
Indeed there is nothing moral about war!
The only morality in war itself is the quick ending of it!
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saddam would not hurt children, saddam loved children, in fact so did hitler
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could you quote the part of that cite that shows.
"It was comon knowledge after GW1 that Bush Sr warned sadam if he used chemical weapons those dams would be no more"
i see nothing vaguely like it nor have i ever anywhere. and i was in a position to hear alot that went on in desert storm.
i repeat please show evidence to support your claims.
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
could you quote the part of that cite that shows.
"It was comon knowledge after GW1 that Bush Sr warned sadam if he used chemical weapons those dams would be no more"
i see nothing vaguely like it nor have i ever anywhere. and i was in a position to hear alot that went on in desert storm.
i repeat please show evidence to support your claims.
do you want me to go through all of your posts and pick out word for word things that might vaguely be inaccurate
I think this qualifies as "Vague"
During Operation Desert Storm, the U.S. military considered such a tactic to flood Baghdad
do you want it in bold?
During Operation Desert Storm, the U.S. military considered such a tactic to flood Baghdad
maybe underlined?
During Operation Desert Storm, the U.S. military considered such a tactic to flood Baghdad
here's a link that says bush warned sadam in 91 that bagdag will be nuked:
http://www.rense.com/general29/att.htm (http://www.rense.com/general29/att.htm)
I admit I cant find a link that says that exact quote although I remember seeing it in an interview to put it "Vaguely"
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Is this the time I post a pic of Rummie shaking hands with Saddam?
:cool: