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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 04:50:52 PM

Title: sweet Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 04:50:52 PM
Did any see it?  Golly-geen I want to kill some sweet MOSLEM cockroaches.

If any didn't...CNN showed a series of videos showing dirty cockroaches killing our troops in IRAQ.  Muther F%$$%^%^%^%^%^%
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: GtoRA2 on November 18, 2003, 04:52:55 PM
You sure its real and CNN did not make it up? It would not be the first time!

:D
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Munkii on November 18, 2003, 04:53:07 PM
What did you expect from them?  Flowers and Candy?  Or maybe they would wage war with Paintball guns while we used high tech weaponry?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 04:53:18 PM
its real and Im pissed as hell....
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: GtoRA2 on November 18, 2003, 04:57:33 PM
Anyone got a link or is it right out in the open on CNNs page?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Hawklore on November 18, 2003, 05:01:11 PM
Plz don't target there religion, it's the terroists not the religion being violent.



I just can't stand people who listen entierly to the media, and don't seek the truth, cause the truth will set you free.:mad:
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 05:04:41 PM
it was just on Wolf-blitzer reports.  Shows a series of three ambushes.  Very disturbing.  I wish I can go over there and start chopping heads.  Muther F####'rs
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: FUNKED1 on November 18, 2003, 05:05:55 PM
I said it already, but IMHO if we aren't willing to kill 100 camel jockeys for every American soldier murdered, we shouldn't be over there.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: davidpt40 on November 18, 2003, 05:11:35 PM
PLEASE POST A LINK I WANT TO SEE PEOPLE GETTING KILLED>
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 05:13:10 PM
They said the Video has been circulating Freely on the Internet. They Only showed edited versions on CNN.  That was enough to PISS me off.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: miko2d on November 18, 2003, 05:26:12 PM
We know our soldiers are being killed. What's wrong with seing it?

 miko
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: capt. apathy on November 18, 2003, 05:34:59 PM
I supose some are more comfortable seeing it as a number.  you know,  3 dead here, 16 killed there, 10 this week, 20 last week, when you see real kids dying it's not quite so abstract.

my question is, are they pissed at the people who are fighting (in their own country) or at the guy who sent our kids over there.

I wonder about people who never seem to consider that 'the other guy' would try to kill our guys too.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: mrblack on November 18, 2003, 05:48:23 PM
The brass needs to start treating this as a war and not a poloce action / accopation.

Time to watermelon or get off the pot.
Clean house or bring our people home.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 06:03:10 PM
Until we carpet bomb Mecca, Medina ...start making lampshades out-a moslems...its just a police action.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: CyranoAH on November 18, 2003, 06:09:34 PM
U sure it's not a fake? Wouldn't be the first time...
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 06:11:16 PM
No it cannot be faked if you see the images.  Convoy ambush and 2 hummer ambushes.  Sad.  Really sad.  I cant imagine seeing the unedited ones.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Munkii on November 18, 2003, 06:11:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MC_Honky
Until we carpet bomb Mecca, Medina ...start making lampshades out-a moslems...its just a police action.


Then that would be a religion based genocide, and we would be no better than the nazi's.  If you want to have that over your head, then go for it on your own.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 06:15:22 PM
I don't care.  We need to stamp those Muthers out.  Not Arabs either.  No christans have suffered more under the yoke of Islam than Christan Arabs.  Leave them alone.  I talking Moslems.  All of them.  We need to take an Island like Diego Garcia and make it into a giant roach motel.  Round those Muthers up and send them on a one way trip.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Tarmac on November 18, 2003, 06:21:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MC_Honky
I don't care.  We need to stamp those Muthers out.  Not Arabs either.  No christans have suffered more under the yoke of Islam than Christan Arabs.  Leave them alone.  I talking Moslems.  All of them.  We need to take an Island like Diego Garcia and make it into a giant roach motel.  Round those Muthers up and send them on a one way trip.


Holy genocidal ethnocentrism, Batman!

I'm trying to figure out whether I should laugh at you or cry for humanity.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: davidpt40 on November 18, 2003, 06:24:40 PM
How come the U.S. Army cant beat some religious fanatics that are using home-made bombs, RPGs and Ak47s/74s?

This is serious question.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: crabofix on November 18, 2003, 06:25:03 PM
I am bringing the popcorn....

Lampshades?
Maybe I should say.......IN!!
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Munkii on November 18, 2003, 06:36:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
How come the U.S. Army cant beat some religious fanatics that are using home-made bombs, RPGs and Ak47s/74s?

This is serious question.


Mostly because they aren't an organized force.  The Army has no real place to strike them without resorting to "terror" attacks on suspected fighters or possibly taking their family hostage in order to bring them out of hiding.  This is something the US Army cannot legally do.  I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't special Ops or something similar trying to discover who the fighters are and quietly shut them up though.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Virage on November 18, 2003, 06:40:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
...kill 100 camel jockeys...


I wonder how many camel jockeys play AcesHigh.

I wonder how many racists play AcesHigh.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Raubvogel on November 18, 2003, 06:41:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
PLEASE POST A LINK I WANT TO SEE PEOPLE GETTING KILLED>



How come the U.S. Army cant beat some religious fanatics that are using home-made bombs, RPGs and Ak47s/74s?




 


You're a retard. A really immature, pathetic little retard.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Raubvogel on November 18, 2003, 06:42:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MC_Honky
I don't care.  We need to stamp those Muthers out.  Not Arabs either.  No christans have suffered more under the yoke of Islam than Christan Arabs.  Leave them alone.  I talking Moslems.  All of them.  We need to take an Island like Diego Garcia and make it into a giant roach motel.  Round those Muthers up and send them on a one way trip.


You take the silver medal in the Tard-o-lympics.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 18, 2003, 06:46:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
I am bringing the popcorn....

Lampshades?
Maybe I should say.......IN!!


What are you saying? That you will enjoy watching American soldiers ambushed? If so I suspect your days on this board are about over.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Munkii on November 18, 2003, 06:49:01 PM
Crabofix is just commenting on the flame war that is bound to happen with racisim and religious intolerance being displayed on the board.  Personally I'd like to see this thread locked as it is very offensive to myself and probably many others.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 18, 2003, 06:52:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Munkii
Crabofix is just commenting on the flame war that is bound to happen with racisim and religious intolerance being displayed on the board.  Personally I'd like to see this thread locked as it is very offensive to myself and probably many others.


Perhaps, but I asked him to clarify. No doubt the lock is coming.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: mrblack on November 18, 2003, 06:54:41 PM
We will have the same trouble the russains had in afganistan.
these dudes with the RPGs are not stupid they hit and run.
I am sure at some point the Army will change it's tactics to fight them at there own game:aok
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: davidpt40 on November 18, 2003, 07:02:04 PM
Quote
You're a retard. A really immature, pathetic little retard.


Thanks.  Hows your marriage doing?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 07:02:34 PM
Lock this thread.  After seeing our poor troops being ambushed- nobody would lock this thread.  Watch the video first then lock this thread.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: capt. apathy on November 18, 2003, 07:15:12 PM
Quote
How come the U.S. Army cant beat some religious fanatics that are using home-made bombs, RPGs and Ak47s/74s?

This is serious question.



ok, I'll try and give a serious answer.

since they (the fanatics) aren't 'regular army', so they have no baracks, bases, supply lines, suport structure, or government with an adress.  at least not in the normal sense of the word.  so when they aren't shooting at you and the guns are under their robes they are fairly hard to distinguish from the arab who is on your side (if their are any).

so do to the above they get to pick the time and place of the confrontation, and they are going to pick times and places that give them the advantage.  if they set up a situation and it all of a sudden doesn't look good for them, then they just skip-it and wait for another day.  

meanwhile our guys have to go around presenting themselves as a tartget and rarely get to engage until they've drawn fire.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 18, 2003, 07:15:16 PM
Ok ..I'm calm now.  I blame CNN for my outburst.  They say, "We have some disturbing video- this is a warning etc.."  WTF- those terds just do that stuff for ratings.  Inflamitory stuff then..now a word from our sponsers.  They are exploiting our poor boys overthere.


Ok ..I'm calm now.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: miko2d on November 18, 2003, 07:19:57 PM
davidpt40: How come the U.S. Army cant beat some religious fanatics that are using home-made bombs, RPGs and Ak47s/74s?
This is serious question.


 Not just the US army. The nationalist uprising has never been defeated in human history. The whole population can be exterminated but short of that, nobody has a better record.


mrblack: I am sure at some point the Army will change it's tactics to fight them at there own game.

 What, sending special teams to roam in the enemy territory? It would not work any better that it did with russians.
 The best it did for russians was to ease pressure on the main centers. It did not gained them control of the enemy territory.

 Intercepting enemy's convoys and battle groups is a reactive tactic by definition. You can make it hard for them to defeat you but you would never defeat them. For that you have to go where they are and kill them there.

 Which is impossible to do because outside of combat, how the heck would you tell an enemy combatant from a peacefull villager? Russians could waste whole villages but americans would not be able to do that for.


 Historically, the only way to deal with afghans was to buy them out. Even then you had to be carefull, just look at the massacre they geve british. So prepare to foot the bill and do not expect much quiet anyway.

 miko
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: ravells on November 18, 2003, 07:20:20 PM
Don't get these sort of responses when other people are dying.

Ravs
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: capt. apathy on November 18, 2003, 07:28:56 PM
Quote
Ok ..I'm calm now. I blame CNN for my outburst. They say, "We have some disturbing video- this is a warning etc.." WTF- those terds just do that stuff for ratings. Inflamitory stuff then..now a word from our sponsers. They are exploiting our poor boys overthere.


Ok ..I'm calm now.



I agree that their motives are purely cash and the language filter would inhibit me saying exactly what I think of them.

but I disagree with those saying this thread should be locked or the video no shown.  

if we can send our sons and daughters out to live through it then we ought to be able to stomach seeing it on video.

if it outrages you to see them maybe you should think about writing a few letters and putting your voice in on the side of bringing them home.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Pongo on November 18, 2003, 07:36:51 PM
I hope they just ban all discussion of current events from this board.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: -tronski- on November 18, 2003, 07:40:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
I hope they just ban all discussion of current events from this board.


Yeah...cause people won't fight over non- current events on this BBS as well :lol

 Tronsky
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 18, 2003, 07:46:48 PM
"I hope they just ban all discussion of current events from this board."

 IMO there is too much pent up angst.  Some folks, like MC_Honky here, should head to thier local recruiter and begin the process which would allow them to take a REALLY active part in what they think is righteuous.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 18, 2003, 07:58:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
"I hope they just ban all discussion of current events from this board."

 IMO there is too much pent up angst.  Some folks, like MC_Honky here, should head to thier local recruiter and begin the process which would allow them to take a REALLY active part in what they think is righteuous.


Some of us here have already been there and done that. Which is one of the reasons for the angst.

For a long time I had this image of Moslem warriors as bold and fearless fighters. That image has been dispelled many times over in recent years. Please don't tell me they are just fighting for their survival or their freedom so any tactics are justified.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Corsair on November 18, 2003, 08:29:35 PM
If you blame all Muslims in the world....you are a tard. Islam, believe it or not, teaches peace, that's right folks, PEACE. But there are very ignorant fanatics that are giving their whole religion a bad reputation.

MC_Honky, that is close to the attitude the middle eastern fanatics have to the west.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 18, 2003, 08:55:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair
If you blame all Muslims in the world....you are a tard. Islam, believe it or not, teaches peace, that's right folks, PEACE. But there are very ignorant fanatics that are giving their whole religion a bad reputation.

MC_Honky, that is close to the attitude the middle eastern fanatics have to the west.


I only blame all the Muslims that support the Palestinian terrorists and the ones that cheered when the US was attacked by terrorists. Have no idea just exactly how many that includes but yes, I blame all of those.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: crabofix on November 18, 2003, 09:34:34 PM
AKIRON

I was waiting for the "flames" and they are heating up, enough to pop my corn.
But before the thread is Closed. An IN!!!
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Munkii on November 19, 2003, 12:03:05 AM
I don't think people want this thread closed because of the video, the thread should be closed because of the ignorant comments towards one specific religion.  I could care less about the video, if someone wants to watch it, I feel any money CNN made off the video should be given to the fallen soldiers relatives and children.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: capt. apathy on November 19, 2003, 12:35:22 AM
Quote
the thread should be closed because of the ignorant comments towards one specific religion


WHY?  when someone makes an ignorant coment, it usually says more about the person doing the talking than the people being talked about.

why should the thresd be closed?  all that would acomplish is doing the ignorant a favor by stopping them from being able to make an prettythang out of themselves (for the time being)
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: -dead- on November 19, 2003, 12:45:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MC_Honky
I don't care.  We need to stamp those Muthers out.  Not Arabs either.  No christans have suffered more under the yoke of Islam than Christan Arabs.  Leave them alone.  I talking Moslems.  All of them.  We need to take an Island like Diego Garcia and make it into a giant roach motel.  Round those Muthers up and send them on a one way trip.
Excellent idea!  A final solution to the muslim problem. To tell the christians and the muslims apart we should get everyone to register and then give the muslims a sign to wear - like little gold coloured crescent moons.  But Diego Garcia? Why not ask the Polish to lend you Warsaw?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Rino on November 19, 2003, 12:47:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair
If you blame all Muslims in the world....you are a tard. Islam, believe it or not, teaches peace, that's right folks, PEACE. But there are very ignorant fanatics that are giving their whole religion a bad reputation.

MC_Honky, that is close to the attitude the middle eastern fanatics have to the west.


     Not blaming all muslims for the acts of a few, but I do say
the "moderates" or peaceloving Islamists been mighty mighty
quiet over the actions of the radicals.

     If they're so outraged over the hijacking of their religion by
the terrorists, why not say so?

     Rino
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: ramzey on November 19, 2003, 12:58:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I only blame all the Muslims that support the Palestinian terrorists and the ones that cheered when the US was attacked by terrorists. Have no idea just exactly how many that includes but yes, I blame all of those.


(http://forum.wbfree.net/forums/images/graemlins/cwm39.gif)
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: ramzey on November 19, 2003, 01:00:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MC_Honky
I don't care.  We need to stamp those Muthers out.  Not Arabs either.  No christans have suffered more under the yoke of Islam than Christan Arabs.  Leave them alone.  I talking Moslems.  All of them.  We need to take an Island like Diego Garcia and make it into a giant roach motel.  Round those Muthers up and send them on a one way trip.


another briliant nazi idea, how about tents for mexicans "alliens"? ;-)
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Chairboy on November 19, 2003, 01:03:33 AM
Why don't Christians loudly denounce fellow Christians that:

1. Harrass gays & lesbians
2. Intimidate and shoot abortionists
3. Try to subvert the spirit of the Constitution by trying to mix religion and government.

and so on?

Why?  Because most of you christians agree with at least one of those three things I listed above.  You religious types seem to be all the same, no matter whether you're Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever.  

It's just varying degrees of crazy.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: ramzey on November 19, 2003, 01:12:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Some of us here have already been there and done that. Which is one of the reasons for the angst.

For a long time I had this image of Moslem warriors as bold and fearless fighters. That image has been dispelled many times over in recent years. Please don't tell me they are just fighting for their survival or their freedom so any tactics are justified.


Somone remember small rock country named Czechenya?

US not support (political) those brave warriors who blow up bmp's every day? ;)

let me count
1. We invide independent country
2. We destroy thier market and jobs, structures to provide democracy.
3, No wepon of mass destruction was found
4. No other proofs of  activity against US citizens, even not so many against iraq citizens

so why the hell you are wonder and angry about troops killed in ocupied country?
Its sad somone lost life, YES

I can tell you more, will be more losses. So dont be suprised anymore, please.

ramzey
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Martlet on November 19, 2003, 01:21:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
Somone remember small rock country named Czechenya?

US not support (political) those brave warriors who blow up bmp's every day? ;)

let me count
1. We invide independent country
2. We destroy thier market and jobs, structures to provide democracy.
3, No wepon of mass destruction was found
4. No other proofs of  activity against US citizens, even not so many against iraq citizens

so why the hell you are wonder and angry about troops killed in ocupied country?
Its sad somone lost life, YES

I can tell you more, will be more losses. So dont be suprised anymore, please.

ramzey


Even CNN doesn't report whacked out information like that.  You must be reading Pravda.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: ramzey on November 19, 2003, 01:28:05 AM
you know what thats word mean? no? ask Boroda;)


Do we not attack other country with poor reasons?

Do we not misorganise life of iraq peoples?
Do we found  "secret" weapon?
Is any evidence of iraque attacks against US citizens?

huh?

Im wonder only,  in 100 years somone will cal this First or Secound Oil War ;-)
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Martlet on November 19, 2003, 01:32:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
you know what thats word mean? no? ask Boroda;)


Do we not attack other country with poor reasons?

Do we not misorganise life of iraq peoples?
Do we found  "secret" weapon?
Is any evidence of iraque attacks against US citizens?

huh?

Im wonder only,  in 100 years somone will cal this First or Secound Oil War ;-)


To answer your questions:

No.
Only temporarily.
Yes.
Yes.

Now answer my questions?  What comic strip do you get your information from?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Ossie on November 19, 2003, 02:19:16 AM
Quote
Ramzey, Martlet is a very, very, very misinformed individual. He is also very stubborn and cynical


So what you're saying is, he's human? :)
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Dowding on November 19, 2003, 03:01:48 AM
Oh my. Who let all the tards in?

Let me see; we have MC_Honky, a fascist of the old school, extolling a final solution to the 'Islamic Problem'. WTG my goose-stepping friend. How's the collection of Nazi memoribilia coming along? Do you identify with that shop-owner in the film 'Falling Down'?

Then we have davidpt40, practically ejaculating over the thought of seeing people getting killed - his own countrymen no less. Respect due.

This thread shouldn't be locked. It should form the basis of a prize-giving extravaganza in the name of world-class tardom - and the two brain donors above get my nominations.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Duedel on November 19, 2003, 03:12:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MC_Honky
Until we carpet bomb Mecca, Medina ...start making lampshades out-a moslems...its just a police action.


Disgusting
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Gunslinger on November 19, 2003, 04:22:22 AM
I dont agree that all muslims are bad.  I do know that there is a SMALL percentage that have "hijacked" the religion into convincing good students and proud fathers into strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up/killing other good students and proud father's children.

for somone to say "kill them all" is an extremly ignorant response.  for somone to say "well we funded them way back when so its our fault" and leave it at that is equally ignorant.

Third world people are just as intelegent as americans but have the ability eaqually to be easily manipulated as well.  Somtimes when you ad up all the factors it eaquals car bombs.  Other times you ad it up it eaquals pure unadulturated murder.

I'm not saying that no ones at fault here or that anyone is a product of their environment.  I am say to all Americans GROW UP!  Times of peace a bliss are over.  If you live in terror these people will win, if you turn a blind eye and let down your guard they will win!

the same people that are complaining about he patriot act are gonna be the same ones that are wondering why we didnt do more befor the next terrorst attack.  AND the same people that are screaming we need the patriot act are gonna be the same ones who were caught doing somthing illeagal
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: davidpt40 on November 19, 2003, 04:30:25 AM
Lets utilize the buddy system and everyone from the Aces High BBS who wants to fight in Iraq can sign up.  I'm sure the army will let people re-enlist also.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Saintaw on November 19, 2003, 04:32:43 AM
i think it's spelled "Muslim", but what do i know...
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Fishu on November 19, 2003, 04:57:11 AM
We have videos of AC130 chasing inviduals with it's bofors, tanks blowing up, targets being bombed...

How does this make it different from watching american vehicles and soldiers being ambushed?

Only difference is that on the latter case they dont have all the infrared things and vehicles to record from.
(and they keep talking BS on the background)
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: StSanta on November 19, 2003, 07:16:26 AM
Good point Fishu. In both instances, people who believe fervently in their cause die. American soldiers (probably) belive very much in democracy, freedom of the individual, the Christian deity/other faith and so forth. Al Qaeda believe in their God.

It seems it is a matter of perspective. I was disgusted by the comments in the AC130 video thread. They were understandable from an emotional point of view but so may showed very little humanity. However, I think it is necessary to kill these terrorists any way possible, including using Big *****ing Guns. I also think it's a good idea that would be terrorists get to see what they have waiting for them, should the join the cause. Yet I refuse to get joy from their deaths.

I haven't seen the video of the ambushes on US troops. That CNN showed them was for ratings and for political reasons - disgusting.

However. We see "2 killed, 3 killed blah blah" on the media and we do not react, because it is mere numbers. War has been sanitized - and the US armed forces is doing a great job at this. It is *not* a bad thing to be reminded just how bloody, how horrible, how tragic war is. It is sad that war must be personalized in such a way before most of us realize this.

It's the same as hearing about car accidents or skydiving accidents. You think "tough **** ugh" and that's it. Then you hear about a guy you know who's now paralyzed after a botched swoop landing and it hits home. Human nature, I gather.

These videos would not shrink my respect for what the US soldiers go through in Iraq - on the contrary. The only strengthen my resolve. But, once it becomes clear the US is fighting a resistance force of ordinary Iraqis, I'd say it's time to bug out as quickly as possible. Terrorists are one thing, the entire population another.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: SLO on November 19, 2003, 07:32:30 AM
reality TV at its best......

hey skuzz......Diplomacy remember.....is sayin "kill all the MTF muslims" diplomacy:cool:

come now...no double standards please
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Stringer on November 19, 2003, 08:06:24 AM
The are definately not bad people, but the ones on my soccer team need to learn to pass more!!

Aside from that, this one of the more idiotic threads, not counting the WWIIOnline threads of course.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Charon on November 19, 2003, 08:24:23 AM
Sombody posted a video a few months back of a Hind getting shot down. It's from the http://www.kavkaz.org.uk/eng/video/ site. There is a lot of this type of stuff on the site from the conflict in Chechnya. I remember thinking, "Yeah, that's exactly what our troops face every day now." I was wondering when we would see  video of attacks on US targets, since videotaping the attacks is apparently part of the SOP.

The videos show just how easy it can be to set these types of ambushes.

Charon
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: davidpt40 on November 19, 2003, 08:53:09 AM
Oh Jesus have you guys seen that video of the Hind landing?  They shoot the missle at it, the hind catches fire, and continues on landing like nothing happened.  WHAT A TOUGH HELICOPTER.  

Note: This is not the video that was posted a few weeks ago.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Dowding on November 19, 2003, 09:05:54 AM
Don't say that GScholz; davidpt40 might explode in orgasmic delight at such a splendid body count.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2003, 10:07:04 AM
"Some of us here have already been there and done that. Which is one of the reasons for the angst."

 Some is right. I'd bet the najority of those beating the drums and calling for more bloodshed have not.


"For a long time I had this image of Moslem warriors as bold and fearless fighters. That image has been dispelled many times over in recent years."


 FWIW I never had that imagine of them.


"Please don't tell me they are just fighting for their survival or their freedom so any tactics are justified."

 Not sure how you can jump to this from what I actually said. Unless you're just talking in general and to all readers.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: SunKing on November 19, 2003, 10:22:33 AM
who is this vidicator mc_honky?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 10:28:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Which one is that? The only video clip I can find where a helicopter burns is of a Mi-26 transport helicopter, and the landing (obscured by buildings) looked very rough considering the Mi-26 is about the size of a C-130. More than 100 Russians may have died in that video.


There's another one farther down the page.  It starts out with a bearded mujahideen standing on a hill holding a shoulder-mounted missile, then you see a helicopter fly over head, then another one.  Eventually the guy gets a good shot opportunity and he takes it.  You see a fireball in the engine section of the helicopter and it gyro-glidess down into the woods on the far hillside.
Title: Re: sweet Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 10:30:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MC_Honky
Did any see it?  Golly-geen I want to kill some sweet MOSLEM cockroaches.

If any didn't...CNN showed a series of videos showing dirty cockroaches killing our troops in IRAQ.  Muther F%$$%^%^%^%^%^%


Didn't see it. Was it filmed by the attackers or was it an embedded reporter filming from the US side of the attack?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 10:37:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Attackers. Prolly holding the bomb remote in the other hand.


Ok, so it wasn't a shooting ambush, but more like a landmine detonation on a road?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2003, 10:44:05 AM
BTW, I found one reference in the news article as to where these videos were.  The Islamtoday.net website.  However I have no idea where on that website they are or were.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: CyranoAH on November 19, 2003, 10:45:19 AM
What strikes me as odd is that international media, which is as hungry for blood and drama as CNN, haven't shown anything.

Daniel
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: crabofix on November 19, 2003, 11:04:56 AM
I hope the tread gets locked.

A Helicopter from Swedish marine crashed just 10 min from my home, during a rescuedrill in very hard weather. 6 dead. No muslims involved, promise.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 11:33:44 AM
Let's recount:

1. Iraq under a brutal dictator invades and brutalizes their neighbor, our friend.
2. We tell them to leave Kuwait, they refuse. We give them ultimatum, they still refuse.
3. We liberate Kuwait and Iraq surrenders unconditionally.
4. Conditions for continuance of Iraqi government are set and agreed upon by Iraq.
5. Saddam violates every condition he agreed to.
6. US gets fed up and ousts a brutal dictator.
7. US creates democracy in the middle east
8. Stay tuned, one of many more to come.

Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
Somone remember small rock country named Czechenya?

US not support (political) those brave warriors who blow up bmp's every day? ;)

let me count
1. We invide independent country
2. We destroy thier market and jobs, structures to provide democracy.
3, No wepon of mass destruction was found
4. No other proofs of  activity against US citizens, even not so many against iraq citizens

so why the hell you are wonder and angry about troops killed in ocupied country?
Its sad somone lost life, YES

I can tell you more, will be more losses. So dont be suprised anymore, please.

ramzey
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2003, 11:41:45 AM
AKIron that list of yours does not justify the loss of one single American life.   I'm just glad, REAL glad, that no relatives of mine are over there with thier lives at risk for what you think is right.

Yes. I could care less that Iraq invaded Kuwait.  It was a local regional issue and the Arab community inmitially chose to do nothing.
Yes. I could care less if Saddam and his regime were brutal to the Iraqi people.
And Yes. I could careless if there is democracy in Iraq or not.


 Again.  All  IMO and not worth one wounded American, let alone a dead one.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 11:47:19 AM
You could say the same thing about WWI and WWII.

Quote
Originally posted by Westy
AKIron that list of yours does not justify the loss of one single American life.   I'm just glad, REAL glad, that no relatives of mine are over there with thier lives at risk for what you think is right.

Yes. I could care less that Iraq invaded Kuwait.  It was a local regional issue and the Arab community inmitially chose to do nothing.
Yes. I could care less if Saddam and his regime were brutal to the Iraqi people.
And Yes. I could careless if there is democracy in Iraq or not.


 Again.  All  IMO and not worth one wounded American, let alone a dead one.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2003, 11:50:17 AM
There's that massive leap of logic and using wildly unrelated examples again.  How you can compare WWI and WWII with what the US and UK have done in Iraq is beyond me.  Youy couldn't even compare Korea to Iraq for at least Korea had UN backing. Iraq is much more akin to Vietnam than anything else (modern times).

Now if you'd used the current fight in Afghanistan as the example you'd have had something to stand on.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 11:53:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
There's that massive leap of logic and using wildly unrelated examples again.  How you can compare WWI and WWII with what the US and UK have done in Iraq is beyond me.

Now if you'd used the currtent fight in Afghanistan as the example you'd have had something to stand on.


Prior to US invlovement in both WWI and WWII many in the US used your exact argument for uninvolvement. Quite similar situations, no "massive leap" required.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2003, 12:03:24 PM
True.  In the lead up to both of those many Americans did not want to go to war in spite of the blatant attacks (long before the Lusitania and Pearl Harbor) that occured on US merchantmen and Naval units, all of which had resulted in the deaths of many Americans.

 I ask you now, since you're using WWII and WWII as the examples, to point out where the US is acting in self defense to aggressions to it perpetrated by Iraq and the former regime.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 12:07:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
AKIron, how can you compare the war with a nation that attacked you first (Japan) and another that declared war on you first (Germany) with the invasion of Iraq (who did neither)?

Vietnam doesn't fit either because there you supported a friendly government (South Vietnam) already there. Iraq is much more like the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Same objective (regime change), but different ideology.


Of course you are referring only to WWII right? This deserves and has had it's own thread but here we go again. Many in the US made the exact argument for non-involvement made by Westy a few posts earlier in this thread. Roosevelt knew he wasn't going to get enough support to delcare war unless we were attacked. He backed Japan into a corner.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 12:07:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
You could say the same thing about WWI and WWII.


I was thinking the same thing.  Its called "isolationism".

What did we care about a war in Europe in 1914? (http://www.worldwar1.com/photos/eww146a.jpg)

What did we care about a war in Europe in 1939? (http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/ww2-pix/dunkirk.jpg)

Korea? (http://korea50.army.mil/graphics/soldier_comforting_large.jpg)

Vietnam?(http://www.vietnampix.com/bilder/face2b.jpg)

The future of America is tied to the rest of the world.  We cannot hide behind the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.  September 11, 2001 proved that.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 12:10:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
True.  In the lead up to both of those many Americans did not want to go to war in spite of the blatant attacks (long before the Lusitania and Pearl Harbor) that occured on US merchantmen and Naval units, all of which had resulted in the deaths of many Americans.

 I ask you now, since you're using WWII and WWII as the examples, to point out where the US is acting in self defense to aggressions to it perpetrated by Iraq and the former regime.


I thought I did. Kuwait was our friend. Much the same as was France when they were invaded by a brutal dictator. We liberated them both. Can you not see the parallel?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 12:13:21 PM
Japan had demanded that US remove its forces from certain areas of the Pacific (namely, the Philippines).  Roosevelt refused.  It didn't take a genius to figure what would happen next.  It was just a question of "when?".
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 12:17:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
OK, this time you're stretching a bit too far. The US did nothing for France when she was invaded. Britton yes, but not France.


Yes, because we didn't care about a conflict overseas in 1939.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 12:18:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
OK, this time you're stretching a bit too far. The US did nothing for France when she was invaded. Britton yes, but not France.


Please tell me then who is buried in all these graves? American tourists? :rolleyes:

(http://www.inettek.com/stuff/no5.jpg)
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 12:20:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Are you saying Roosevelt forced the Japanese to attack ... that Roosevelt is to blame for WWII???


I'm saying that Roosevelt understood that our involvement in the war (already well underway) was inevitable and simply forced Japan's hand.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2003, 12:23:02 PM
"The future of America is tied to the rest of the world. We cannot hide behind the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. September 11, 2001 proved that."

 True. And the future is a bit screwed up as much of the world dislikes the US right now.  But anyway.  Who's promoting isolationism?   If a safe future was the true concern here why didn't the US jump on Iran, Syria or Saudi Arabia?
 



"I thought I did. Kuwait was our friend."


 oh brother.  Kuwait was a tool and a resource. Kuwait was a good supply of oil and an "western aligned" color on the coldwar map of the MiddelEast for the US.  Nothing more. If Kuwait did not have oil to sell the US would have cared less.

" Much the same as was France when they were invaded by a brutal dictator. We liberated them both. Can you not see the parallel?"


 No.  Not at all.

 The US didn't do shat in 1939, 1940 or 1941 other than sell arms and lend material for bases.  The US did not get involved until directly attacked at the end of 1941 and even then France was liberated in mid 1944 as a byproduct of getting to Germany itself.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: crabofix on November 19, 2003, 12:23:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I thought I did. Kuwait was our friend. Much the same as was France when they were invaded by a brutal dictator. We liberated them both. Can you not see the parallel?


No theres no pararell, because Germany decleared war on you, long after the invasion!
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 12:25:20 PM
I guess some things never change.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2003, 12:26:20 PM
"Please tell me then who is buried in all these graves? American tourists?"

 I see thousands of Americans who died in WWII invading Europe to defeat Germany and who would be mad as hell at what the US government has done in this day and age.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MC_Honky on November 19, 2003, 12:30:40 PM
There are three parts to the video they showed:

1) A Humvee and a Soldier by a tree.  Then major explosion...nothing left.  Looked like a remote bomb.

2) Convoy driving by.  Boom.  Major bomb and front of truck engulfed in flames and fireball.

3) Humvee drives by then they are ambushed by small arms fire.  Small arms fire continues and bullet hits score as call to prayer begins in background.  Sicking !
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 12:32:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
"Please tell me then who is buried in all these graves? American tourists?"

 I see thousands of Americans who died in WWII invading Europe to defeat Germany and who would be mad as hell at what the US government has done in this day and age.


I wouldn't presume to speak for them.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 12:34:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
"The future of America is tied to the rest of the world. We cannot hide behind the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. September 11, 2001 proved that."

 True. And the future is a bit screwed up as much of the world dislikes the US right now.  But anyway.  Who's promoting isolationism?   If a safe future was the true concern here why didn't the US jump on Iran, Syria or Saudi Arabia?
 


Iran: The government of the ayatollahs is becoming less hard-line.  Besides, I think they're glad to see Iraq under US/coalition control.  It gives them some peace knowing that they won't be invaded by fellow muslims anytime soon.

Syria: Proven to support terrorism, but invasion difficult due to lack of available US resources.  That's why we're sending "reserves" overseas to Iraq.  I wouldn't be surprised if Syria becomes a hotspot in 10 years if not sooner.

Saudi Arabia: the royal family is cooperating with us, believe it or not, if even as a token gesture.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: miko2d on November 19, 2003, 12:36:51 PM
"The future of America is tied to the rest of the world. We cannot hide behind the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. September 11, 2001 proved that."

 False. It was meddling that brought it onto US. Should have stayed home rather than support Al-Qaeda, Shah, House of Saud and the rest of those "friends" of ours.

 The US involvement into WWI was on the same crappy pretenses as the the invasion of Fhillipines before that. Cost europeans an extra year of fighting, few more millions dead and of course the bolshevism and nazism.

 miko
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 12:40:32 PM
Quote

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gofaster
What did we care about a war in Europe in 1914?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing. You didn't enter the war until April 1917. The direct reason, as opposed to the propaganda coup, was the resumption of German unrestricted submarine warfare in early 1917, and to have a say in the peace. The USA did not fight WWI based on the sinking of the Lusitania; which occurred two years before the USA entered WWI. The declaration of war would have happened if the Lusitania had never existed.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gofaster
What did we care about a war in Europe in 1939?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing. You didn't enter the war until December 1941, and even then it took Germany to declare war on you before you took any offensive action in Europe.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gofaster
Korea?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing. You fought against the spread of Communism, not for the South Koreans. Had the NK's been Capitalists and the SK's Communists you would have helped the NK's invade instead.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gofaster
Vietnam?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same as Korea. You supported a corrupt undemocratic regime to prevent the spread of Communism.


You have proven my point.  We cannot adopt a policy of isolationism.  Our delay into the earlier conflicts were examples that should not be repeated.  I have no doubt that had Iraq continued unabated, there would have been another attack on US interests.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 12:41:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
These men died in 1944/45 (prolly some earlier; aircrews). France was invaded in 1940 and you didn't do anything to support them.


They stayed invaded until we did everything to support them. I'm wasting my text here.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: crabofix on November 19, 2003, 12:46:18 PM
Yes the US did a great job, when helping libarating France.

No doubt about this.

But if they was so concerned about France as you say, why didnt they get involved earlier?

Why did it take a declaration of war from Germany?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 12:47:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d
"The future of America is tied to the rest of the world. We cannot hide behind the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. September 11, 2001 proved that."

 False. It was meddling that brought it onto US. Should have stayed home rather than support Al-Qaeda, Shah, House of Saud and the rest of those "friends" of ours.

 The US involvement into WWI was on the same crappy pretenses as the the invasion of Fhillipines before that. Cost europeans an extra year of fighting, few more millions dead and of course the bolshevism and nazism.

 miko


You forgot to mention the Lebanese government in 1983.  Yes, we should not have supported a fellow member of the UN in that instance.  We should have learned our lesson from supporting UN members South Korea and South Vietnam and just let them get steamrolled. :rolleyes:

You're also right - Had the Austro-Hungarian troops taken France and the rest of Europe, there wouldn't have been a WW2, because there wouldn't have been anything for Hitler to invade other than the northeastern countries and possibly Britain (assuming it didn't fall in WW1).
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Sarge1 on November 19, 2003, 12:48:13 PM
Its called Collateral Damage.. It is Something that we arent doing any more taking out innocent people ,so it makes the Military's Job more difficult to do.. And the US and it's Military are not murderers and do Not think Kindly of killing women and children and Make every Effort not to do that.. But sometimes it happens but then that is war.. I would like to get those also that kill withhit and run tavtics. Cant kill the entire country.. And there Moslems that do take the religion serious as a religion. Not like so called terrorist that use that religion to kill woman kids babies and any one they feel like it... If that was the case look at the bible see how many we have killed for relgion... But does it make it right if we do it now..I would not like to see our Country or its military discraced in that way. So many Of us HAve Served With honor.. Why should we kill what we always fought for and had so many die for. Would like be spitting on thier graves to me.. Thats Whats Makes our country Different so many ways than other countries. we just dont kill everything in sight and call it OK cause they do it'

Just a Vets thoughts on some of the posts
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 12:48:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
Yes the US did a great job, when helping libarating France.

No doubt about this.

But if they was so concerned about France as you say, why didnt they get involved earlier?

Why did it take a declaration of war from Germany?


Because of isolationism.  The same concept as is being discussed as a reason to not get involved in the Middle East.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: MaddDog on November 19, 2003, 12:49:03 PM
I dunno, war is BS all around, i dont think we should kill all the muslims, there are some good ones, alota bad ones but more good probably.

 If we go to war (like we are already) this is basically another vietnam in the making, cant see the enemy, they jump out shoot few people and disappear, many more americans will die, just as many more muslims will die.

I dont understand how poeple can be on iraqs side though, people all say "Hey, wheres all the proof?" Of course we arent gonna find anything, you think Saddam just had all his watermelon sitten for everyone to see, We are still finding stuff Hitler had hidden even now days, We have found mass graves (Done by Saddam) does this make him better?

Those people need a different way of living, they go through hell everyday because all they do everyday wheather they have muslim leaders or an American government is kill each other over dumb chit, they need to realise not everyone is the same and some people just might go out on the limb and believe in something else.

Ah well, i dont like seeing those videos either, but im in support of this war, and hope Bush doesnt half bellybutton it and back out, i also know its hard for all the fathers and mothers with sons and daughters over there, but i plan to enlist next year, and take my part in this war if they will let me.

All in all if we just sit around and dont go to war, then more Sept, 11ths will happen, more innocent not involved in any war people will die. It can happen any day, who woulda though the Twin Towers could ever be taken out? And now they are gone. War is inevitable and war IS hell.

Anyways just my 2 cents
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 12:52:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
Yes the US did a great job, when helping libarating France.

No doubt about this.

But if they was so concerned about France as you say, why didnt they get involved earlier?

Why did it take a declaration of war from Germany?


IMO the US was headed towards the European war whether Germany declared it or not. The reason for the delay should be obvious. Firstly, many Americans were of German descent, recent generations. Secondly, the same phenomenom you see in America now. Many are opposed to war unless we have been directly attacked.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 12:57:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Wrong. Isolationism would have spared you the horrors of 9/11. It would have spared the Middle East of much of their problems (Iran-Iraq, Israel-Arab).

There is a difference between aiding friendly nations (like you did pre-Pearl Harbor) which is good, and getting involved in (thereby complicating) conflicts that do not concern you.


Wrong.  I believe Sept. 11 was a result in our involvement in Lebanon in 1983 and our support of Israel before that.  We were in Lebanon at the invitation of the Lebanese government, a member of the United Nations.  As a member of the UN, they requested the assistance of the UN members, and as a UN member nation America provided troops for "peacekeeping" (also known as "targets").  American had no interest in Lebanon, other than Lebanon as a member of the UN.

Are you suggesting that America should no longer abide by its commitments to the UN?

Or are you suggesting that we should cease our support of Israel?

Or both?

If we are to adopt a policy of isolationism, then we have no need for the UN.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: crabofix on November 19, 2003, 12:57:51 PM
Gscholz.

The Flow of Oil into the US is the bigest concern and it needs to be secured, no matter the what.
This is highly understandable, as the Us society is a very fragile one.

Now for the Video thing.
I grew up watching the News from vietnam. People got killed, US as well as Vietcong and civilians.
It is not a good thing to watch that stuff, but I bet you are not saying anything about the "other team" getting killed on your Television set.

If it touches you this bad: Welcome, this is what is happening down there, every day. To both sides, People lose thier lives. Its a fact.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2003, 01:03:24 PM
Gofaster I think Iran is just smartly waiting out the current situation before doing much of anything.  IMO when the opportunity comes, when Iraq is governing themselves, I believe they will try to use thier influence with the Iraqi Shia's to help move Iraq towards being another Iran.

 As for Syria. they do one thing (aid the guerillas and help isurgents get into Iraq) while supposedly handing over former regime mebers to the US. They're playing both cards and will probably get burned for it somewhere along the lines. IMO though the US had the momentum and the excuses earlier. Now an invasion or attack on Syria will look like imperialism or "Zionists using the US as a puppet" no matter what the excuse.

 As for supposedly being pro-active with an Iraq that the US government just "knew" would be hostile, aggressive and belligerant?  That would be like the US attacking Germany for taking back the Rhineland in 1936 because they could "see" Germany invading Poland and France in 1939-1940.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 01:05:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
If it touches you this bad: Welcome, this is what is happening down there, every day. To both sides, People lose thier lives. Its a fact.


It is a fact but it isn't necessary. It is those opposed to Iraqi self-rule that are now inflicting these casualties upon Americans and Iraqis.

Someone opposed to American involvement in Iraq please tell me what you think these insurgents hope to accomplish.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 01:07:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
As for supposedly being pro-active with an Iraq that the US government just "knew" would be hostile, aggressive and belligerant?  That would be like the US attacking Germany for taking back the Rhineland in 1936 because they could "see" Germany invading Poland and France in 1939-1940.


So quickly we forget why Iraq was invaded in '91. It wasn't proactive but reactive.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 01:10:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
This is pure BS. Hitler would never have come to power if Germany won WWI. You should read up on WWI and the reasons for it. A few hints: Germany did not start the war. Germany (just like you are claming to do now) made a "preemptive" strike against France and Russia ... in self-defense (Funny how history repeats itself ... or at least the political rhetoric). Had Germany not attacked, France and Russia would have. Britton got involved to please the French and Russians who at that time were competitive colonial empires. The US popped in at the end to get in on the spoils, and to have a say in the peace.


You're right.  The Kaiser would've retained his government, at least a bit longer.  Nazism never would've happened because there never would've been the German anger that fueled it.  My apologies on that point.  You are correct.

Actually, Serbia started the war. It was the entangling alliances that brought the conflict out to the global scope it had. The German "swinging gate" attack plan was sound and had France reeling until the German generals on the eastern "gate" refused to swing back towards Germany and instead relied on trench warfare.  With the stalemate came attrition, and with attrition came pleas for assistance to the US.  Eventually the US would have entered the war, it was just a question of "when?".

America could easily have come to the aid of Germany rather than Britain and France, but the Lusitania was effectively used by the pro-British group as a powerful emotional trigger.

Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Westy on November 19, 2003, 01:15:58 PM
AKIron as I said before I don't care two bits about Kuwait. That applied back then too.  As I said before the Iraq invasion of Kuwait was something for the countries in the region to have resolved.  The US got involved not because of any UN resolution; they did get involved to thwart an Iraq bent on world domination and the US most definately not go there due to any imagined "friendship" or solidarity with the Kuwaiti's. The US did what they wanted to do and because of oil.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 01:22:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
AKIron as I said before I don't care two bits about Kuwait. That applied back then too.  As I said before the Iraq invasion of Kuwait was something for the countries in the region to have resolved.  The US got involved did not because of any UN mandate, not to thwart an Iraqi bent on world domination and most definately not for any imagined "friendship" or solidarity with the Kuwaiti's. The US did because of oil.


Just like you many didn't care "two bits" for Europe back in the 1940's.

Ya know we can have friendships based on mutual benefit. While the US certainly helps the helpless it isn't evil for us to help those from whose relationship we benefit.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: bigsky on November 19, 2003, 01:29:18 PM
they wouldnt get ambushed if they were doing proper recon and have infantry ahead and the sides of the convoys. that would stop the ambushes cold, but they couldnt go speeding around at 50mph. i dont know what there teaching those soldiers these days.
http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=27&rnd=931.3696268965701
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 01:29:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Then you believe wrongly. Al Queada did not attack you for your involvement in Lebanon. Your Israel support is a given, but not enough. Bin Laden himself has stated that the reason for the Jihad is your presence in Saudi-Arabia, and that it's a threat to Islam. Al Queada is attacking you because you interfere in Middle-Eastern matters.

The UN is now being attacked in Iraq because of your involvement. The UN would never (and did not) approve of this invasion, but your power in the world and the UN has forced the issue. An act of monumental stupidity in a world that needs the UN more than ever, and where the UN could have fulfilled it's potential to promote peace. No longer ... thanks to the US of A.

Thank you America.


If I'm not mistaken, we were in Saudi Arabia because of the invasion of Kuwait in '91.  So, if I understand correctly, you're saying:

a) that al Queda attacked the US because it assisted a Muslim nation against the attack of another Muslim nation and because that assistance was provided by the permission of another Muslim nation?  If so, then the real target for al Queda would be Saudi Arabia (for allowing us infidels upon their blessed sands) and Kuwait (for asking us infidels to liberate their country).

b) that had the US never assisted Kuwait, then the US would never have been attacked by al Queda?  The sailors of the USS Cole, who died in the harbor at Yemen in October, 2000, a full year before our fighters landed in Saudi Arabia for Desert Shield, would disagree.

c) that the UN is perfectly capable of brokering peace amongst nations without providing "peacekeepers" to assist member nations?  Yes, I see that Somalia is totally peaceful now, its people well fed and happy, since the UN peacekeepers pulled out under a hail of gunfire.

:rolleyes:

If I'm not mistaken, the UN was created by the US, and the US is the main contributor of resources to the UN.  If the US were to adopt a policy of isolationism, then there would be no UN.  Isolationism requires that the US not be involved in the affairs of other nations.  Isolationsim and the UN cannot co-exist.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: miko2d on November 19, 2003, 01:34:42 PM
gofaster:

 Actually, the end of war got delayed by over a year and caused much more casualties because US broke the stalemate.
 Instead of a face-saving peace resulting from no-win fighting that everybody admitted at the time, the war was ended with a crushing defeat to several sides (germany, russia) and greater devastation to others, which seriously destabilised the continent.

 Instead of humanity getting disgusted with a bloody war for no gain to eather side, and forever forswearing wars, people got a lesson that a more bloodier war can be victorious and profitable.

 Professor Wilson was an idealist fanatic who changed the terriotorial character of the war into and ideological one - and hence made it a total war with no compromises possible but total destruction of one side.
 His greatest joy was when he heard that the allied russian monarchy fell in favor of more democratic government - which proved short-lived.
 He went to destruction of the Austian Empire and creating nonsensical ethnically oppressive states with abandon - like Chechoslovakia or Yugoslavia, that were just a ticking timebombs.
 He was not seeing anything except of his religious concept of democracy that was supposed to somehow worl miraculously - but did not.

 miko
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 01:35:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Actually Austria-Hungary started the war by declaring war on Serbia after Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assasinated in Sarajevo by Serb terrorists (believed to be supported by the Serb military).


A declaration of war is the formality.  The act of aggression is the cause.  Serbia caused the war by assassinating Archduke Ferdinand.


Quote
Germany ended the war ... on French soil. Germany went bankrupt, and would have gone bankrupt with or without your involvment. [/B]


Actually, I believe Germany would've won the continent.  France was well on its way to bankruptcy, too.  It was American $ and troops that pushed the battle to France's (and England's) side.  And, of course, the failure on the eastern "gate" to adhere to the strategy also mucked things up for Germany.  Germany had the initial push, and as you pointed out, they surrendered on French soil.  France was unable to dislodge the Germans.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 01:37:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Then you believe wrongly. Al Queada did not attack you for your involvement in Lebanon. Your Israel support is a given, but not enough. Bin Laden himself has stated that the reason for the Jihad is your presence in Saudi-Arabia, and that it's a threat to Islam. Al Queada is attacking you because you interfere in Middle-Eastern matters.

The UN is now being attacked in Iraq because of your involvement. The UN would never (and did not) approve of this invasion, but your power in the world and the UN has forced the issue. An act of monumental stupidity in a world that needs the UN more than ever, and where the UN could have fulfilled it's potential to promote peace. No longer ... thanks to the US of A.

Thank you America.


Many believe Saddam Hussein intended to restore Iraq to the glory of that of Mesopotamia. Kuwait was but his first stepping stone toward conquering the middle east. He even had a coin minted with his picture on one side and Nebuchadnezzar on the other. He also built a huge army and for what if not conquering his neighbors? Regardless of what you believe he did invade a peaceful neighbor and member of the UN. The UN agreed to disapprove his action and acted accordingly.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: crabofix on November 19, 2003, 01:42:02 PM
The Kuwait story is very old.

You just check out how Kuwait became Kuwait and then you check on how old IRAQ is, just remember that it was called "mesopotamia" before.

Kumait was a Soverign country, that Iraq attacked because of border quarells. Not because of  "world" domination.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 01:44:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
The Kuwait story is very old.
 


Not so old as the WWII story. Those who forget history are destined to repeat it.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 01:44:39 PM
Actually, Iraq wanted Kuwait's money (and oil fields).  Also, the destruction of Kuwait would've absolved Iraq of its debt.  Iraq had the military, Kuwait had the money.

Iraq said: "With my guns, I can take your money." and Kuwait replied: "With my money, I can buy more guns." ;)
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: straffo on November 19, 2003, 01:48:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster

What did we care about a war in Europe in 1914?
What did we care about a war in Europe in 1939?  


it wasn't 1914 ... and it wasn't 1939 either.

btw it was smart in 1939 US army was well ... risible ?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Rude on November 19, 2003, 01:50:18 PM
You're wasting your time Iron.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: crabofix on November 19, 2003, 01:54:23 PM
Hey, Straffo, how come you´re not "probated"?

Dont you wanna be in the squad?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: straffo on November 19, 2003, 01:55:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
A declaration of war is the formality.  The act of aggression is the cause.  Serbia caused the war by assassinating Archduke Ferdinand.
 


I allways thought  Austria wrote the ultimatum ...
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 01:57:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz

Liberation of Kuwait: 1991

Attack on USS Cole: 2000

I think they would agree.

 


Doh! Yeah, you're right.  That's what I get for trying to multi-task during a political discussion.

December 4, 1992, President Bush (the first one) sent US troops into Somalia to support the UN humanitarian aid effort there.  The US was there as part of the UN peacekeeping force.  When the US pulled its troops out of Somalia in 1994, the UN humanitarian aid effort was doomed.  It ended  in 1995.  As luck would have it, Aidid died later that same year from bullet wounds.

So really, what you're saying is that the US should avoid getting involved in UN affairs and simply let the countries work it out for themselves?  Much like Lebanon and Somalia have?
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Martlet on November 19, 2003, 01:59:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Ramzey, Martlet is a very, very, very misinformed individual. He is also very stubborn and cynical (in a borderline fascist way). To argue with individuals like him is a waste of time.


Inform me then, oh wise one.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 02:00:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
it wasn't 1914  


The casualty tables say it was 1914.

http://www.worldwar1.com/tlcrates.htm

So does the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwone/summary_02.shtml)
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 02:04:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I allways thought  Austria wrote the ultimatum ...


Austria didn't assassinate a political figure.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: straffo on November 19, 2003, 02:12:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
Austria didn't assassinate a political figure.


Neither did the serb ,it was a bosnian student a area anexed by the Austrian in 1908.

so technicaly it was on Austria soil , btw they were interogated (I guess with all the love the Austrian had for their local monority) they implicate serbia.



IMO the real responsible for WWI is Nicolas II but it's my opinion nothing more.


And it was not a political figure , juts yetanotherroyaltard .


About 1914 part look like I mis-understood your post I thought you implied the US intervention started in 1914 which is wrong.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 02:15:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The thing with the UN is that it is not a country, it's an international organization. There are clear sets of rules and guidelines for what the UN can and cannot do. The UN effort in Somalia was not to wage war on the warlords there. The UN was there solely as a humanitarian effort (much like Bosnia), the military forces (peacekeepers) were there to protect the UN and independent (red cross etc.) aid workers. The US forces that did fight the warlords (like depicted in Black Hawk Down for instance) were not part of the UN force. The UN cannot intervene in a civil war. The UN cannot interfere in the internal matters of a nation. The UN is neutral, and that's why it was the best tool we had for peace. If the participants of a war do not want peace, then peace cannot be obtained. In Bosnia only the Bosnian-Muslims wanted us there, so we were not in Bosnian-Serb territories. Our only mission was to protect the aid convoys and render aid to the civilians.

The US military was there as part of the UN effort, according to this (http://the-tech.mit.edu/V113/N47/somalia.47w.html).  The specific "Black Hawk Down" incident was part of a UN sweep.  The US forces were there as part of the UN request for troops to protect the aid segment of the UN mission.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: AKIron on November 19, 2003, 02:16:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
You're wasting your time Iron.


I refuse to believe those that have told me I argue for the sake of argument. I argue to win!

;)

Now you know how I came by my callsign, it is the density of my head. :D
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 02:18:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
US troops in 1914? Where?


Exactly.  You proved my argument.  My point was, that US isolationism was going strong in 1914.  Had the US not waited to enter the war, it could've been decided much sooner.  See my earlier posting with all the pretty pictures.  US isolationism failed then, and it would fail now.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Elfie on November 19, 2003, 02:19:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
Yes the US did a great job, when helping libarating France.

No doubt about this.

But if they was so concerned about France as you say, why didnt they get involved earlier?

Why did it take a declaration of war from Germany?


Crabofix, you need to understand that the majority of Americans held an isolationist view. They didnt care that Europe was in yet another war. With that in mind, the government can't just jump into the war without causing all kinds of domestic problems.  Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor brought America together as nothing else could have.

Germany didn't declare war on us until after we declared war on Japan.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Jack55 on November 19, 2003, 02:31:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I allways thought  Austria wrote the ultimatum ...


They wanted free hand to capture and prosecute the revolutionaries hiding inside Serbia that assassinated the Arch-Duke.  No nation would give up their self respect and independance in such a manner.  They knew it would come to war and were afraid Russia would come to aid Serbia because of their relegious and culteral similarities.  So they waited and lobbied Germany for support if Russia interviened. This resulted in rising tensions and escolating mobilizations among the opposing power blocks.  I don't think Serbia was successfully conquered during WW1.  It became unimportant in light of the mass carnage.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: mrblack on November 19, 2003, 02:43:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bigsky
they wouldnt get ambushed if they were doing proper recon and have infantry ahead and the sides of the convoys. that would stop the ambushes cold, but they couldnt go speeding around at 50mph. i dont know what there teaching those soldiers these days.
http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=27&rnd=931.3696268965701


Great more armchair generals:rolleyes:
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 02:44:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
The US forces did not wear UN uniforms, they did not answer to UN leadership and they were not under UN control. The UN forces in Somalia were not even informed on the US operations (also depicted in the movie as well). The US forces were not UN forces in Somalia.


We were there at the request of the UN, and were acting as part of the UN effort.  The chain of command was different, but the effort was the same.  The only difference was that we had a bit more leeway to operate and achieve the goal of capturing warlords rather than sitting around waiting for relief camps to get hit.  It also meant we were on our own when things went wrong.

The failure to incorporate the US forces into the UN leadership structure made the UN extraction from Somalia more difficult - for the UN.

It was the same mission, under different leaderships.  The US was there to support the UN efforts.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: gofaster on November 19, 2003, 02:57:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Yes exactly. The UN could not have done what the US forces did. The UN is forbidden to. The UN is neutral, the US is not.


And you saw how effective the UN relief effort was before, during, and after the US involvement.  "Neutral" = "target" when you're wearing the blue helmet in a hostile environment.

If the US pulled out of Iraq and left it up to the UN to administer, Iraq would sucumb to civil war in a matter of weeks, if not days.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: straffo on November 19, 2003, 03:02:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Jack55
They wanted free hand to capture and prosecute the revolutionaries hiding inside Serbia that assassinated the Arch-Duke.  No nation would give up their self respect and independance in such a manner.  They knew it would come to war and were afraid Russia would come to aid Serbia because of their relegious and culteral similarities.  So they waited and lobbied Germany for support if Russia interviened. This resulted in rising tensions and escolating mobilizations among the opposing power blocks.  I don't think Serbia was successfully conquered during WW1.  It became unimportant in light of the mass carnage.


Certainly but in my opinion Nicolas II giving a too strong support to the Serbs made this happen.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: mrblack on November 19, 2003, 03:06:02 PM
I think America will be Judged on what she does in the future not on what she did in the past.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: mrblack on November 19, 2003, 03:14:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Nonsensical. You cannot judge on things that hasn't happened yet.


Not saying it makes sense !
Just saying thats the way it seems sometimes.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: crabofix on November 19, 2003, 03:46:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
Crabofix, you need to understand that the majority of Americans held an isolationist view. They didnt care that Europe was in yet another war. With that in mind, the government can't just jump into the war without causing all kinds of domestic problems.  Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor brought America together as nothing else could have.

Germany didn't declare war on us until after we declared war on Japan.


Thanx Elfie for clearing out that it was not to "libarate" anyone, that made US to enter the war.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Martlet on November 19, 2003, 04:39:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crabofix
Thanx Elfie for clearing out that it was not to "libarate" anyone, that made US to enter the war.


Nah, that was why we were supplying the UK, instead.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: ramzey on November 19, 2003, 05:50:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
Let's recount:

1. Iraq under a brutal dictator invades and brutalizes their neighbor, our friend.
2. We tell them to leave Kuwait, they refuse. We give them ultimatum, they still refuse.
3. We liberate Kuwait and Iraq surrenders unconditionally.
4. Conditions for continuance of Iraqi government are set and agreed upon by Iraq.
5. Saddam violates every condition he agreed to.
6. US gets fed up and ousts a brutal dictator.
7. US creates democracy in the middle east
8. Stay tuned, one of many more to come.



1. And was punished over 10 years ago. How about last 10 years?
2. "Somone" refuse payments for irak-iran war, who was supporting this war? ;-)
3. How to glue this to 2003 war?
4. Sure , and thats why every year som planes bomb som factories in iraq , without UN permissions. Clinton was smart enough to keep tham scared, and smart enough to not spend bilions of $ for war.

5. And noone of inspectors cannot proof  they violate condition. How many conditions was violated by US?
6. lol,  and thats why people still fighting against ocupation forces in iraq?
7, Who the hell ask you for that?  When russians like to provide comunism, they where bad guys. How you call US troops now?
Democracy by force?  Created by tanks and bombs, democracy whichone come on bayonets foregin army?? Is that not against clue of democracy?

8. i will wait


i live long enoug in comunistic country to see, same ideologi is now on west side of wall. Give everyone freedom for any price.
Propaganda and lies in tv. Oh not, they tell true, but not whole
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Martlet on November 19, 2003, 05:54:02 PM
Ramzey, you really can't be that stupid.  I truly believe this.
Title: Video on CNN Killing Americans
Post by: Raubvogel on November 19, 2003, 08:31:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by davidpt40
Thanks.  Hows your marriage doing?


My marriage is fine. But even if it weren't, I could always re-marry.  Some things you can change, but retard is forever. You want to see dead in combat? Step up to the plate. Until then you're just a little pathetic retard.