Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: gofaster on November 20, 2003, 10:45:36 AM
-
What an imbecile....
Texas Man Chokes to Death on Marijuana
Texas Man Chokes to Death Trying to Hide Bag of Marijuana in Mouth From Police
The Associated Press
FORT WORTH, Texas Nov. 20 — A man changing a flat tire choked to death on a bag of marijuana he had stuffed down his throat in an apparent attempt to hide it from police who stopped to help him, authorities said.
Nickolas Sandoval, 24, died Wednesday.
Officers were unaware at first Sandoval had drugs when they spotted him on the highway in Corinth, about 45 miles northeast of Fort Worth, said Corinth police Cpl. Frank Lott.
"Officers went from 'Oh, hey, here is someone with a flat tire' to 'Hey, this guy is choking,'" Lott told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
Sandoval, of Ponder, was pronounced dead at a hospital. Cause of death: "asphyxiation due to aspiration of plastic bag," according to a spokeswoman for the Tarrant County Medical Examiner's Office.
Sandoval was convicted at least three times of marijuana possession, and pleaded guilty two years ago to a drunken-driving charge.
-
was it his own stupidty that killed him?....Yes
Was it our our govements stupidty for makeing him paraniod about something so meaningless in the frist place?......Yes
Or maybe our govement likes it this way .. (good for bussiness, so to speak)
-
Another drug-related death.
-
Another dead pothead/drunk driver. Give me a minute, I might be able to shed a tear............... :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Manedew
Was it our our govements stupidty for makeing him paraniod about something so meaningless in the frist place?......Yes
Its not the government that makes drug users paranoid, its the drugs. The drugs also make the user stupid, although some users are already stupid when they start using drugs.
-
I had a case where a suspect tried to swallow a joint and started choking. The officer was trying to hold on to him, get him to spit out the joint and not let the guy kick him in the balls. They finally OC'ed the **** out of him and he "coughed" up the evidence.
:rofl
-
ya good work ... and you wonder why you get called pigs.....
:takeing what you said outta context that sounds pretty lame:
I could explain what was done wrong there ... but it would be pointless
hint: you screwed a guy up to get him to throw up a joint?
-
Excuse me?
-
What's OC'd mean?
-
OC spray. Like pepper spray, only better.
This guy also punched cop in the head and tried to pull another one's gun out of the holster. All while choking on a joint he was trying to eat.
BTW, that was before they sprayed him.
-
There was a time when the property of the aspirin to prevent heart attacks, drastically increase the people's chances after a heart attack or prevent a second heart attack were known and well-documented.
By that time aspirin was in widespread use for many decades and all it's side-effects, interactions and properties were well-known.
Unfortunately, according to the FDA rules, it was illegal for the company (Bayer) to advertise that aspirin can prevent heart attacks untill it passed a several years-long standard testing process.
The company could not even say "Aspirin may prevent heart attack but this claim has not yet been verified by FDA". The company officers would go to jail for something like that.
Of course the few tens of thousands unnecessary deaths that such restriction caused were not the fault of the government.
If those dummies with weak hearts were carefully reading medical industry trade journals, they would have known about the healing properties of aspirin. :rolleyes:
miko
-
I hope the bag of pot survived.
-
That's why I say taken out of context :)
-
Doesn't aspirin thin the blood?
-
Yes, which is the reason it helps prevent heart attacks. A lot of heart attacks occur because of blood clots, with thinner blood less clotting occurs.
Thats just a layman break down, I'm not sure the exact scientific way it works, but thats the way it was explained to me.
-
Originally posted by Dune
OC spray. Like pepper spray, only better.
This guy also punched cop in the head and tried to pull another one's gun out of the holster. All while choking on a joint he was trying to eat.
BTW, that was before they sprayed him.
Ah, cc. All the same, they should have just shot the ********.
-
He should sue the manufacturer/distributer for inadequate and unsafe product labeling.
-
Originally posted by SOB
What's OC'd mean?
Liquid act right. For those it works on it will make them act right.
As far a grabbing a gun, he's lucky that's all he got. Seems to me his mind was made up.
These potheads that think the man is doing them wrong need to band together and get the law changed.... until then be the minority and STFU.
-
I'm not a pothead and I think arresting someone for possession of marijuana is stupid. And while I don't feel motivated enough about the subject to launch a campaign to change the law, I will use my god-given right as an American citizen to be a loud-mouthed whiner about it. ;)
-
lol, seems that's what it all really cooks down to. I arrest people for possession all the time, not because I enjoy it but because its part of my job. Take the law off the books if it's bad, it happens every leg. session.
-
Concho, ya gotta admit, it's easier arresting potheads than drunks.
-
less paperwork in a doper. all the same tho...
-
It's one thing to sit home and smoke, it's another to smoke and drive.
-
It's easier to harass inoffensive drug posessors or people not wearing seatbelts, then tackle real criminals or terrorists.
Policemen may be greedy and lazy and even stupid (after significant lowering of their test standards related to accusations of racial discrimination), but they are not that stupid.
We are bound to pay taxes for their salaries and retirement but we have no say in what they do, so why would they bother? It's not private enterprise that has to provide value to the customer.
I saw a TV interview with a policewoman at a Marijuana supporters gathering in New York. She was asked "would you rather stay here and try to catch a guy with a joint, or be out there chasing the terrorists".
The stupid ***** looks right into the camera and says she would much rather be here away from danger. Saw it with my own eyes!
miko
-
I'm sorry but this Is too freekin funny:rofl :rofl
What a MORON:rofl
-
Originally posted by -Concho-
lol, seems that's what it all really cooks down to. I arrest people for possession all the time, not because I enjoy it but because its part of my job. Take the law off the books if it's bad, it happens every leg. session.
Do you have any time to catch dildo violators?
-
Dune, I notice you changed your story after getting a couple negative remarks...is that standard Gestapo training?
-
Yep. Right after we learn how to shove bamboo under nails.
:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Dune
Yep. Right after we learn how to shove bamboo under nails.
:rolleyes:
Dune, I didn't know you were a manacurist- I thought you worked for the Gestapho. :D
-
Originally posted by mora
Do you have any time to catch dildo violators?
yes if you can find an actual dildo. most are classifed as codom training devices. I have identifed several condom training devices in my time on the road, but I have never actually observed an infraction of the dildo law in person. I am looking forward to that day.
-
Originally posted by miko2d
It's easier to harass inoffensive drug posessors or people not wearing seatbelts, then tackle real criminals or terrorists.
Policemen may be greedy and lazy and even stupid (after significant lowering of their test standards related to accusations of racial discrimination), but they are not that stupid.
We are bound to pay taxes for their salaries and retirement but we have no say in what they do, so why would they bother? It's not private enterprise that has to provide value to the customer.
I saw a TV interview with a policewoman at a Marijuana supporters gathering in New York. She was asked "would you rather stay here and try to catch a guy with a joint, or be out there chasing the terrorists".
The stupid ***** looks right into the camera and says she would much rather be here away from danger. Saw it with my own eyes!
miko
call us what you want to miko. you world is a safer place because of people like me. how can you take your opinion of police based on an interview with one police officer? in every outfit your going to have people that arent that gung ho, it's up to the rest of us to take up thier slack.
what kind of job do you have? is it a safe eviroment?
you have total and complete control over your police force if you are a voter. change comes through effort, if you don't like it get off your bellybutton and change it.
-
Concho,
Don't worry about miko, he's a troller and the sky is always falling around him. :rolleyes:
He spouted off and made a grand generalization about all cops after watching a tv show. Like he has the REAL idea about law enforcement. Next he'll tell us the lack of a gold standard is because of bad cops. :rolleyes:
-
No doubt Maverick. <
>
-
Originally posted by -Concho-
call us what you want to miko. you world is a safer place because of people like me. how can you take your opinion of police based on an interview with one police officer? in every outfit your going to have people that arent that gung ho, it's up to the rest of us to take up thier slack.
what kind of job do you have? is it a safe eviroment?
you have total and complete control over your police force if you are a voter. change comes through effort, if you don't like it get off your bellybutton and change it.
Concho, so you're a cop, but a Hell's Angel to boot? Is that common?
-
Originally posted by Manedew
ya good work ... and you wonder why you get called pigs.....
and you wonder why you get called *******
-
<
> Concho, Maverick and Dune. I believe you all fight the good fight and without people like you we'd be less of a society.
-
Originally posted by miko2d
It's easier to harass inoffensive drug posessors or people not wearing seatbelts, then tackle real criminals or terrorists.
Policemen may be greedy and lazy and even stupid (after significant lowering of their test standards related to accusations of racial discrimination), but they are not that stupid.
We are bound to pay taxes for their salaries and retirement but we have no say in what they do, so why would they bother? It's not private enterprise that has to provide value to the customer.
I saw a TV interview with a policewoman at a Marijuana supporters gathering in New York. She was asked "would you rather stay here and try to catch a guy with a joint, or be out there chasing the terrorists".
The stupid ***** looks right into the camera and says she would much rather be here away from danger. Saw it with my own eyes!
miko
huh? :confused:
-
Originally posted by Airhead
<> Concho, Maverick and Dune. I believe you all fight the good fight and without people like you we'd be less of a society.
You're right for the most part, Airhead. 95% of cops fight the good fight and we could not live the way we do without them. The other 5% it seems, were somehow placed (by some higher power) in Los Angeles County. While living there a few years ago I was harassed twice. Once for walking up Sunset BLVD in the Palisades at 3 in the morning, from the local Vons Supermarket to my apartment and the second time while riding in the back seat of a car that got pulled over fir a traffic violation. The first time the bastard spent 10 minutes questioning myself and my two buddies on why we were there, who we were, where we'd gone to highschool and other banalities. While I don't blame his vigilance(since it was late and we were three very young guys strolling around in a nice neighborhod), his attitude totally sucked. We were cooperating to the best of our abilities, were sober, and he still threatened to "get out of his car" after my friend answered the question of where he went to high school with: 'I graduated two years ago', and then, before finally pulling away, he actually made us thank him for the trouble of stopping us. He was older, bald and very pissed to be alive. We agreed that the most unlucky person in the world was the guy's poor wife.
The second time I got pulled out of the backseat and forced to do a field sobriety test because I didn't have a seatbelt on. It was a younger cop this time, and he claimed that I was 'giving him s**t' when he shined his light into my eyes through the backwindow. All I'd done was put my palm up to block the beam. Nevertheless, I told him that I wasn't giving him any s**t, that I respected his position and the work he did. After that he shook my hand and calmed down.
There is nothing scarier than a cop that's abusing his power. In my mind, that rare creature is nothing but a thug in uniform, paid and protected by the state. To the rest of the guys, like the plain-clothes officer who helped me push my dead truck through a nasty intersection last winter, and the guys who each day put themselves on the line defending lives of people who are often unworthy of such defense, salutes are most definately in order.
-
Originally posted by Ripper29
Originally posted by Manedew
ya good work ... and you wonder why you get called pigs.....
and you wonder why you get called *******
I guess that I can't use that term here.
Your reference to the Police Officers who stopped to offer assistance to a "stranded motorist", who is stupid enough to swallow a plastic baggie filled with pot, speaks to your lack of understanding of the big picture here. Cops don't make the law, the idiots you elected did (so in reality you did).
I take offense to the term "Pigs", I will tell you here and now that I am currently a serving police officer, for 23 years I have served my community with pride and have seen things that would make most people turn away or cower in fear. I have risked my life for those that are unable or unwilling to take a stand and never given it a second thought. I have served my country in a mission in a foreign country, as a police officer, to make life better for the people there.
Don't blame the copper for this idiots own demise, perhaps it’s the dope he has been smoking.
If you want to continue to call Police Officers "pig's" then you can kiss my prettythang
-
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
[While living there a few years ago I was harassed twice. Once for walking up Sunset BLVD in the Palisades at 3 in the morning, from the local Vons Supermarket to my apartment and the second time while riding in the back seat of a car that got pulled over fir a traffic violation.
On a lighter side :D
This was taken from a "Community Policing" question and answer via an e-mail forum in California.
The question was:
"I would like to know how it is possible for police officer to harass people and get away with it? And where can you go for help, other than a civil attorney?"
And the answer was:
"It is not easy. In California we average one cop for every 2000 people. About 60% of those cops are on patrol, where we do most of the harassing. One-fifth of that 60% are on duty at any moment and available for harassing people. So, one on duty cop is responsible to harass about 10,000 residents. When you toss in the commercial, business, and tourist locations that attract people from other areas, sometimes you have a situation where a single cop is responsible to try to harass 20,000+ people a day.
A ten hour shift runs 36,000 seconds. This gives a cop only one second to harass a person, and three-fourths of a second to eat a donut AND find a new person to harass. This is not an easy task. Most cops are not up to it day in and day out. It is just too tiring.
Since you now understand why we cannot harass everyone let me explain briefly what we do to utilize some special "tools" to help us narrow down who we harass, so we can focus our limited "harassing resources" to those most worthy individuals. They are as follows:
The Phone:
People will call us up and point out things that cause us to focus
on another person for special (concentrated) harassment. "My ex-husband just beat me and my boyfriend up and he is barricaded in the bedroom with our baby and a gun, or "My neighbor is beating up his wife and she is screaming for help" are a couple code phrases that are frequently employed. Then we come out and give special harassment to the wife beater. Another popular one on weekends is "My neighbors are out of town and their kids are having a loud party."
Cars:
We have special cops assigned to harass people who drive; They usually ride motorcycles so they can get around fast or cut through traffic to harass as many people as possible in their given shift. They like to harass the drivers of fast cars, cars blasting music, cars with expired registration tabs, and the like. It is lots of fun when we pick them out of traffic for nothing more obvious then running a red light, going around railroad crossing arms, or driving 20+ MPH over the posted limit in a school zone. Sometimes we get to really heap the harassment on when we find they have drugs in their car, are driving drunk, are unlicensed or have an arrest warrant!
Runners:
Some people take off running at the mere sight of a uniformed police officer. Nothing is quite as satisfying as running after them like a trained
beagle on the scent of a bunny. When we catch them, gosh darn it if there isn't always some good reason to harass them for hours!
Codes:
When we can think of nothing else to do, there are books that give us
ideas for reasons to harass folks. They are called Codes, Penal, Vehicle, Health and Safety, Business and Professions... They each spell out all sorts of silly things for which we can really mess with people. After we study these code books, we can just drive around for a while until we find someone violating one of the listed offenses and heap on the harassment! Just last week I saw a guy smash several car windows right in front of me. Well, believe it or not, one of the code books says that is not allowed. That meant I automatically got to harass this guy...of course he didn't like it, because just when I got done harassing him, the jail deputies harassed him and that will likely continue until the judge harasses him, then he will probably be harassed by a probation officer for the next couple of years. It is a pretty cool system that we have set up, and it works very well most of the time. We seem to have a never ending supply of folks to harass, and we "get away with it" because the good citizens pay the tab for us to keep the streets safe for them...and your civil attorney.
Next time you are in my town, give me a "single finger wave". That is a secret signal that you wish for me to take a closer look at you, and maybe find a reason to harass you.
-
I dig the Orwell quote, it's a classic, but Caligula? I hear that dude was a little overboard for his favorite horse. :D
-
Originally posted by -Concho-
I arrest people for possession all the time, not because I enjoy it but because its part of my job. Take the law off the books if it's bad, it happens every leg. session.
In Caulifornia possession of an ounce or less is still illegal without a doctor's note, but it is a $100 ticket - maximum. Also...
In any case in which a person is arrested for a violation of this subdivision and does not demand to be taken before a magistrate, such person shall be released by the arresting officer upon presentation of satisfactory evidence of identity and giving his written promise to appear in court, as provided in Section 853.6 of the Penal Code, and shall not be subjected to booking.
Ca. Health and Safety Code 11357 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=409076627+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve)
-
Apart from the "horse" thing.. you have to admire his thinking.....
-
Originally posted by Ripper29
Apart from the "horse" thing.. you have to admire his thinking.....
He was an odd duck in many ways, but the quote was remarkably eloquent and sincere.
-
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
Concho, so you're a cop, but a Hell's Angel to boot? Is that common?
The Hells Angels reference is to the Flying Tiger's AVG, not the organized crime m/c. I do ride though.
-
Originally posted by Airhead
<> Concho, Maverick and Dune. I believe you all fight the good fight and without people like you we'd be less of a society.
Thank you Airhead
-
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
You're right for the most part, Airhead. 95% of cops fight the good fight and we could not live the way we do without them. The other 5% it seems, were somehow placed (by some higher power) in Los Angeles County. While living there a few years ago I was harassed twice. Once for walking up Sunset BLVD in the Palisades at 3 in the morning, from the local Vons Supermarket to my apartment and the second time while riding in the back seat of a car that got pulled over fir a traffic violation. The first time the bastard spent 10 minutes questioning myself and my two buddies on why we were there, who we were, where we'd gone to highschool and other banalities. While I don't blame his vigilance(since it was late and we were three very young guys strolling around in a nice neighborhod), his attitude totally sucked. We were cooperating to the best of our abilities, were sober, and he still threatened to "get out of his car" after my friend answered the question of where he went to high school with: 'I graduated two years ago', and then, before finally pulling away, he actually made us thank him for the trouble of stopping us. He was older, bald and very pissed to be alive. We agreed that the most unlucky person in the world was the guy's poor wife.
The second time I got pulled out of the backseat and forced to do a field sobriety test because I didn't have a seatbelt on. It was a younger cop this time, and he claimed that I was 'giving him s**t' when he shined his light into my eyes through the backwindow. All I'd done was put my palm up to block the beam. Nevertheless, I told him that I wasn't giving him any s**t, that I respected his position and the work he did. After that he shook my hand and calmed down.
There is nothing scarier than a cop that's abusing his power. In my mind, that rare creature is nothing but a thug in uniform, paid and protected by the state. To the rest of the guys, like the plain-clothes officer who helped me push my dead truck through a nasty intersection last winter, and the guys who each day put themselves on the line defending lives of people who are often unworthy of such defense, salutes are most definately in order.
I agree about the 5%. We draw our ranks from the population, surely there is going to a bad apple every now and again. My problem is when folks generalize all police officers as "bad cops" based on one or two peoples actions.
-
Originally posted by Montezuma
In Caulifornia possession of an ounce or less is still illegal without a doctor's note, but it is a $100 ticket - maximum. Also...
In any case in which a person is arrested for a violation of this subdivision and does not demand to be taken before a magistrate, such person shall be released by the arresting officer upon presentation of satisfactory evidence of identity and giving his written promise to appear in court, as provided in Section 853.6 of the Penal Code, and shall not be subjected to booking.
Ca Health and Safety Code 11357 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=3940785123+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve)
wow, here under 2 oz is a class b misd. up to 6 months in jail and/or 2k fine. usually its probation for a year tho.
got to have 50 or more pounds for a felony.
-
To be honest with you I have never really understood why Booze is leagel and pot aint.
I mean wich one is more natural????
God gave us pot.
Man gave Booze and all it's lovely health isses:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by mrblack
To be honest with you I have never really understood why Booze is leagel and pot aint.
I mean wich one is more natural????
God gave us pot.
Man gave Booze and all it's lovely health isses:rolleyes:
Cuz Dupont only had the patent for nylon not corn.:D
-
You can't make money out of pot, unless it's illegal.
-
Originally posted by mora
You can't make money out of pot, unless it's illegal.
Ever hear of the hemp industry?
-
Yes I have... I just didn't remember it was illegal there.
-
The Hemp industry is not illegal in america.. Least I have seen many hemp products.
k
AoM
-
Originally posted by mora
Yes I have... I just didn't remember it was illegal there.
you seem to have a very deep understanding of the US
-
OK, I stand corrected. It is legal in 12 states.
http://www.thehia.org/legislation.htm
So what do you folks think about this one, should it be legal/illegal? Remember that industrial hemp doesn't have any recreational value.
-
-Concho-: call us what you want to miko.
I did not mean it to be personally offensive to you. Whenever a government bureucracy creates a warm spot for human trash to benefit from tax money, it does not necessarily meant that some good people would not get in. Probably many do.
But the whole system is skewed against such because the politicking scoundrels can advance their careers better than the principled people do.
If you are one of those principled people, all the more respect to you!
you world is a safer place because of people like me.
If you mean you personally and you are a good cop, sure, and I am gratefull. Not that I would need your charity or would like to rely on it, but I appreciate it nevertheless. I would rather had a system where every one was paid fairly for doing good job.
I was speaking not just about individuals but about all the coercive tax-funded non-consumer cintrolled mechanism. I surely do not feel safer because of it.
I would be much safer if I cept my tax dollars to spend as I find optimal for my protection and if there were not so many restrictions on the supply of security by the private market.
I cannot legally own a bullet-resistant vest or carry a weapon in my city - because policemen are supposed to protect me and somehow my owning a vest would upset them.
And I see whole bunches of them catching seat-belt violators or pot smokers. When not doing that, they are mostly patrolling some inner-city areas who's residents pay no taxes and I hardly see a policeman on my block even though I am paying through the nose.
Somebody's world may be safer because of people like you and money extorted from people like me - but it surely not my world!
how can you take your opinion of police based on an interview with one police officer?
I made one illustration from y personal experience. That surely does not mean that is all I have.
what kind of job do you have? is it a safe eviroment?
And it costs me pretty penny of my private expenses. My taxes I just write off as a loss.
you have total and complete control over your police force if you are a voter.
I have no control over my police force whatsoever. With our all or nothing system a minority vote, even if it's 49% is totally discarded. We do not have proportional representation here. Even if I switched parties to the majority, I would have 1/2,000,000 of the influence. I would hardly call that "total and complete control".
if you don't like it get off your bellybutton and change it.
That would be stupid and never work because of simple economics. If I got out to changed every thing I do not like - from the ban on the milk sale to the foreign tariffs, I would pay much more than I lose.
The political power of special interest groups is concentrated while that of the consumers is diffused.
It is more efficient for me to pay extra few dollars a week for milk rather than go against milk interests - even if I won, which I wouldn't.
Same with the security and other services taken over by socialist state.
Slogans are nice but ignoring the economic reality is plain madness.
Maverick: He spouted off and made a grand generalization about all cops after watching a tv show. Like he has the REAL idea about law enforcement.
You idiot. My family and peole I know have been victims of several crimes and I've seen how police handles those. You do not have to be an electrical engineer to know that the system does not work when the lights do not come up.
In NYC the police protection sucks, the whole system is politicized, corrupted and undermined by Affirmative Action.
Any agressive cops tryinmg to do their job in NY are chased away or prosecuted because of accusations of "excessive force", "ethnic profiling" or some other crap.
The windbags like you stay on, chase pot smokers and sing praises to their bosses, whenever they are not getting underfeet of the Fire Department guys.
miko
-
Originally posted by miko2d
It's easier to harass inoffensive drug posessors or people not wearing seatbelts, then tackle real criminals or terrorists.
They got Ted Bundy on a traffic violation before they were able to tie him to the murders.
They got David Berkowitz on unpaid traffic tickets before they were able to tie him to the murders.
They got Timothy McVeigh on a traffic violation.
They got Al Capone on tax evasion.
If you pay attention to the little crimes, sometimes you can get the bad guys that commit the big crimes.
-
Originally posted by Ripper29
I guess that I can't use that term here.
Your reference to the Police Officers who stopped to offer assistance to a "stranded motorist", who is stupid enough to swallow a plastic baggie filled with pot, speaks to your lack of understanding of the big picture here. Cops don't make the law, the idiots you elected did (so in reality you did).
I take offense to the term "Pigs", I will tell you here and now that I am currently a serving police officer, for 23 years I have served my community with pride and have seen things that would make most people turn away or cower in fear. I have risked my life for those that are unable or unwilling to take a stand and never given it a second thought. I have served my country in a mission in a foreign country, as a police officer, to make life better for the people there.
Don't blame the copper for this idiots own demise, perhaps it’s the dope he has been smoking.
If you want to continue to call Police Officers "pig's" then you can kiss my prettythang
And this has to do with what i posted how? I said something like '''do you wonder why cops get called pigs :taken out of context: 'pepper spraying a guy to get him to puke up a joint is bad"
but maybe you'd know that if you read one paragraph instead of typeing 3 when you see the word 'pig'
-
Originally posted by mora
Yes I have... I just didn't remember it was illegal there.
It's not illegal. It's legal and makes money. It could even make more money, given the right approach. That was the point. I thought you mentioned something about not being able to make money off pot without it being illegal, didn't you?
-
lol Mane.. before any bellybutton kissing goes toward Ripper29, ask him if it looks like a pig's ass... 8)
k
AoM
-
Well I used the term "pot" which I believe is used to describe cannabis products for recreational use. It is so easy to produce that if it would be legal you couldn't really make any profits from it, unlike when it's illegal. I didn't consider hemp industry which could indeed be a big source of income. As I replied above it seems to be legal in some states.
-
Certainly the police must exercise restraint and abide by the law. Those that hate or think we don't need police are idiots. Our society would collapse into chaos without police in no time at all.
-
AKIron: Those that hate or think we don't need police are idiots.
Our society would collapse into chaos without police in no time at all.
Those who think that only government can provide protection - or any other service - or do it better than free enterprise private market, are communists.
I have to agree with you though, that our society which has been long corrupted by socilalsm, would (temprarily) collapse in chaos if the government programs were suddenly terminated. Just like Soviet Union society collapsed in chaos for a while when the socialist command structure was demolished.
But you make it sound as if such collapse is a bad thing. It's not. It's just a symptom of recovery, like a hangover after drinking alcohol.
The damage is not from hangover but from alcohol and if the drinking (or socialist policies) are continued in fear of hangover, the collapse would come anyway but much harder.
American people used to live with much less police and much less violence or crime than we have now - like in the "Wild" West.
miko
-
After the societal collapse Kevin Costner could deliver the mail and we could rebuild.
-
I wish Kevin is ready to intervene. Comrade AKIron skipped few pages in his study of Leninism. Otherwise he could have warned us about much more urgent disaster coming.
You see - it's a common knowlege (among communists, at least) that only government can provide the production and distribution of food. If you leave it to the free market capitalism, we would all die of starvation in a few weeks.
miko
-
Ever heard of Safeway or Piggly Wiggly? They are capitalist food distributors.
-
There are already private security forces in place. Just ask any major commercial tenant. They're always hiring security guards. I sure wouldn't want Pinkerton's Finest to be responsible for running an undercover drug sting operation.
-
Originally posted by miko2d
I wish Kevin is ready to intervene. Comrade AKIron skipped few pages in his study of Leninism. Otherwise he could have warned us about much more urgent disaster coming.
You see - it's a common knowlege (among communists, at least) that only government can provide the production and distribution of food. If you leave it to the free market capitalism, we would all die of starvation in a few weeks.
miko
Are you seriously advocating we do away with our police? Perhaps in your past experience police did little more than oppress and subjugate but in our society they serve the people. They do this through enforcing our laws. If the laws are oppresive then change them with your vote or rise up and through violence change the government if you believe it is not representative.
Or, go live somewhere else. You do have that freedom in America, unlike in your country of origin until recent years. Hmmmm, why did you come to America?
-
Miko who would regulate your private police force and to whom whould they answer? What laws would they be able to enforce? I can see no other way for adequate enforcement of the laws set forth by the people other than a govermental agency, otherwise you get several small factions with no real or common goal other than personal profit. I also don't see where it would benefit anyone but the wealthy.
You seem to be really hung up on pot smokers and seat belt violators. How else are we supposed to find these other violent criminals? We make a traffic contact, conduct an interview (what some people call being harrased), and in a very short ammount of time try to determine if there is something else going on. Every now and again you'll find a dead body in a trunk or a kidnapped child or more likely a load of narcotics. The bottom line is that it all has to start some where. If I can find someone with out a seat belt I going to stop them and see whats going on.
You do control your police force through votes. Police officers answer to thier Chief who inturn answer to the elcted city council. If you feel that your vote does not matter that is a totally different problem all together. The abilty to change is one of the foundations of this country, not just a slogan.
I am amazed that you feel like your tax dollars are extortion money for police. That is one of the most aburd things I have ever heard.
It's obvious that you have a negitive view of police and I'm sure in your mind you have a good reason for it. It seems to me though you would not be happy unless you lived on a small island where you had total control.
We will still be there for you no matter what your opinion is.
-
Originally posted by AKIron
Are you seriously advocating we do away with our police? Perhaps in your past experience police did little more than oppress and subjugate but in our society they serve the people. They do this through enforcing our laws. If the laws are oppresive then change them with your vote or rise up and through violence change the government if you believe it is not representative.
Or, go live somewhere else. You do have that freedom in America, unlike in your country of origin until recent years. Hmmmm, why did you come to America?
well said Iron.
-
Police agencies do not provide protection. You want 'round the clock protection? Hire bodyguards.
They provide deterrence. And an agency to investigate violations of the state's laws.
Laws of the land are determined by voters through their representatives. The state then has the obligation to enforce these laws. When the codes/laws are broken, it is the state's job to investigate the violation, determine who broke the law and prosecute them. If indeed they are guilty, it is up to the state to punnish them. I think it's somewhat remarkable that the state allows the average citizen to tell them who is guilty by way of jury.
-
AKIron: Are you seriously advocating we do away with our police?
I am seriously advocating doing away with any socialist institutions in favor of free-market solutions. That means state-run police, education, retirement, healthcare, etc.
Perhaps in your past experience police did little more than oppress and subjugate but in our society they serve the people.
That's just rhetoric. Soviet policemen were also serving the people and protecting us from criminals.
Or, go live somewhere else. You do have that freedom in America, unlike in your country of origin until recent years.
I do have freedoms in some areas, not in others. I do not argue that less communism is better than more communism.
I disagree with you that any communism is necessary.
Hmmmm, why did you come to America?
To have less communisn, of course! I did not know it would have so many supporters here. :)
-Concho-: Miko who would regulate your private police force and to whom whould they answer?
There are whole books on the subject. We have plenty of crucial services provided by private market. They are "regulated" by customers though competition and can be sertified or licensed by existing or new private accreditation institutions or even by the government.
You seem to be really hung up on pot smokers and seat belt violators.
It costs me a lot of money to have them harassed. And those are only two of many activities that have nothing to do with my protection.
You do control your police force through votes.
And jews in Germany controlled theirs through their votes, so they must have been ok, right?
The majority can vote to force me do anything they want, so what? Even if I join the majority party, my vote would be 1/2000000 of the total, hardly an influence. When I buy something from a private supplier, my every vote is unanimous and decisive. That's influence.
I am amazed that you feel like your tax dollars are extortion money for police.
If I do not pay them - because I feel no need of the services offered in return, the armen people would break into my house, take away my property, kidnap me or kill me if I resist. That's pretty much what I call extortion.
My roofer cannot do that to force me to pay for his fixing a roof somewhere else.
It's obvious that you have a negitive view of police
Not really. I would gladly have police - maybe even the same individuals or better ones, if it was provided in a free market competition, not in a socialist coercive way.
I need food more than I need police and I am fine with private supply. Same with transport, healtcare and many others.
It seems to me though you would not be happy unless you lived on a small island where you had total control.
Total control over my life and my property.
Basically, give me the America of the Founding Fathers (minus slavery, of course) and I will be a happy camper! :)\
Dune: it's somewhat remarkable that that the state allows the average citizen to tell them who is guilty by way of jury...
The state allows? It seems you believe that the state is superior to the individual. For your information this is supposed to be a free country where the state serves the people, not the other way around.
miko
-
Which, last time I checked, was how it worked. Perhaps allows was not the best term, but does not change my point.
However, perhaps I've seen what you're after. A type of pure capitalistic state where if you don't have the money to pay for it, you don't get it. And if you are required to pay for anything through taxes, that thing is immediately labeled as communism. Interesting POV. Not really rational, but interesting nonetheless.
-
simply amazing miko. I guess it takes all kinds to make this world go round.
Every thing that you said provides for the rich. When you hire you private police and do away with any kind of state sponsored police force whko will protect the poor and under privileged?
I saw your post about dangerous jobs. I am still curious to know what you do.
Every night I strap on a gun and a bullet proof vest, kiss my kid on the head and tell her good night, go out on the Interstate and try to do a good job. I'm reminded everytime I go to our headquaters in Austin of how deadly thing can get everytime I walk down the hall that has the pictures of the 77 highway patrolmen that have died in the line of duty. I stop change flats on the traffic side of peoples cars so they don't get hit. I've crawled into a burning car and drug a guy out, I've swam though a flooded draw to help people that were trapped in a truck that was being washed away. I don't ask for praise or recognition. All I ask for is a paycheck and a little respect. Don't tell me I don't have a dangerous job till you've walked a mile in my boots.
-
-Concho-: Every thing that you said provides for the rich. When you hire you private police and do away with any kind of state sponsored police force who will protect the poor and under privileged?
What do you think causes people to be poor and underprivileged if not socialist government's interference with a free market?
I mean if the government is so great in providing police (and education, and healthcare), why not make it provide jobs and allocate consumption?
Every night I strap on a gun and a bullet proof vest, kiss my kid on the head and tell her good night, go out on the Interstate and try to do a good job.
You would still be working as a policemen and be even more appreciated if the police was provided privately. We do not have farmers on the satte payroll but we do get fed.
Personally, you have my deep respect and I would rather pay you twice your salary voluntarily - I am sure you would easily replace two average New York cops. Especially if you stick to the actual protection.
miko
-
If I understand you correctly in your system there would be no poor? Farmers recive a large susbsidy check every month so I guess our food system is socialist too. They say the reason farmers' hats are creased in the front is from looking in the mail box for the goverment check.
here is an example
http://www.ewg.org/farm/
-
Originally posted by miko2d
You idiot. My family and peole I know have been victims of several crimes and I've seen how police handles those. You do not have to be an electrical engineer to know that the system does not work when the lights do not come up.
In NYC the police protection sucks, the whole system is politicized, corrupted and undermined by Affirmative Action.
Any agressive cops tryinmg to do their job in NY are chased away or prosecuted because of accusations of "excessive force", "ethnic profiling" or some other crap.
The windbags like you stay on, chase pot smokers and sing praises to their bosses, whenever they are not getting underfeet of the Fire Department guys.
miko [/B]
Another highly "reasoned" response from the russian immigrant critic. I fail to see why you remain in this flawed country. I, for the life of me, cannot figure out why you left that workers paradise to come to the seat of capitalism.
You criticise the response of the police to incidents you alege you or your family were involved in because the police have been hamstrung by the illustrations you listed. Then you want a "private" police as a solution?!?!?! The idea of privatizing law enforcement as a way of solving problems begs further private manipulation of the agency. If you thnk the "special interest" impact is bad now imagine what it would be for a "private organization". Who's in charge? Whoever has the most money. Yep that's logical alright. :rolleyes:
As to the last part. I won't drop to your level of name calling and rhetoric. I'll just say that you have never met me, never saw me on duty, never looked at my personell jacket or even been in the same circumstances I worked in. You have not done the job nor placed your life in jeopardy on a daily basis for almost 2 decades. Yet you have the gall to judge my professional worth. All on the basis of a game bbs. :rolleyes:
As far as the wind bag comment is concerned, I invite you to examine the nearest mirror.
-
Originally posted by -Concho-
...If I can find someone with out a seat belt I going to stop them and see whats going on....
Isn't this practice illegal?
-
Originally posted by Maverick
...Yet you have the gall to judge my professional worth. All on the basis of a game bbs...
Isn't that exactly what you are doing? Isn't that what everyone here does?
-
Originally posted by Furious
Isn't that exactly what you are doing? Isn't that what everyone here does?
Please tell me where I questioned his professional status?
-
Originally posted by Furious
Isn't this practice illegal?
Not in Texas. I think it is in Florida though... may be a state by state basis.
-
It's called Primary and Secondary states. Primary ones like Texas can actually pull you over and arrest you for not wearing a seat belt. Crazy but true, makin' the world a safer place.
-
Originally posted by -Concho-
Not in Texas. I think it is in Florida though... may be a state by state basis.
It is state-by-state right now IIRC. It isn't legal in Arizona. Not wearing your seltbelt can get you a ticket, but it can't lead to a search like having a headlight out or expired registration.
-
Originally posted by Dune
It is state-by-state right now IIRC. It isn't legal in Arizona. Not wearing your seltbelt can get you a ticket, but it can't lead to a search like having a headlight out or expired registration.
In AZ. it is insufficient cause to stop soley for a seatbelt violation. You can be cited, not arrested creamo, there is a difference. It's a civil infraction meaning arrest and jail time are not a punishment under the violation. You can be fined but not sentenced to jail. Failure to apprear or pay will get your license suspended. Driving on a suspended license is criminal and you can be arrested & or jailed in that case.
Never ceases to amaze me how so many just focus on traffic situations instead of looking at the much larger function of police work. I guess since that's all they see they figure that's all there is. :rolleyes: Frankly, the regular patrol officers in my home town have so little time between calls they don't do much with traffic.
-
Only time we arrest for a traffic violation is when the violator refused to sign the citation, also it seem that 90% of my seat belt violations are unrestrained child/safety seat violations. Whats ya'lls take on that?
-
I'm just a google cop.
http://www.ifisher.com/arrest.html
Seems like the Supreme Court says you can be arrested, but I really don't care. If someone doesn't restrain their children properly they should be beaten, not arrested.
Course I don't really want to get involved in the whole aspect of what peace officers are all about. Again, I don't care. They make so little money I side with them by default. People screw without condoms all the time but I don't think you should barge into their homes and tell them you are there for their well being.
-
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
-
It's SO true. Feel free to post it again whenever need be.
-
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
-
Well at least wait for the kissing the kids goodbye and strapping on the nuke proof vest to look for the ultimate dildo collar post, sheesh.
-
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
-Funkedup
That is so profound.
-
I think Ben said it first.
-
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Punt just for creamo.
-
Creamo,
The Supremes just upheld a Texas law. That is not the law of other states such as Arizona. It means Arizona could make that the law if they wanted to.
-
Pry the same as the being able to pull people over because they see they aren't wearing one, it's state specific, cc.
All this seatbelt enforcment talk is exciting!
-
Don't worry creamo, no one would try to convince you to wear your seatbelt. For you it's not necessary, just go and leave it off while you check the tensile strength of the concrete abutment on your nearest freeway. Make sure you dismount your airbag as well. ;) :aok
-
Gee detective, great work, but when did I say I didn't wear a seatbelt again?
-
I haven't drank in 15 years... I was pulled over for a seatbelt infraction... it was late/early and a weekend... I was in an older fast car. I was asked to take a field sobriety test.
I was polite and stayed quiet except to answer questions. It seemed like a reasonable thing for the cops to do to me and we all got through it with no problems.
lazs
-
When I was in school we had a town cop. I thought he was a salamander He would stop me for any reason he could think of...He tried to give me a ticket for squealing my tires, I had a full time 4wd pickup..LOL gave me a ticket for a wire hanging from my rear bumper like I said any reason that he could...Now town has a different cop and from what I hear he is pretty easy going..and there have been 9 kids killed near that small town from drinking and driving in the last 2 years...I am glad he was a salamander now..probably saved alot of lives....
<> to all who Protect and Serve
Originally posted by FUNKED1
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Yeppers!!!!!!!!:aok
-
Originally posted by Creamo
Gee detective, great work, but when did I say I didn't wear a seatbelt again?
Gee, king of the tards, where did I say you didn't wear a seatbelt again? I just provided an invitation. :rolleyes: Feel free to indulge.
:p
-
Originally posted by lazs2
I haven't drank in 15 years... I was pulled over for a seatbelt infraction... it was late/early and a weekend... I was in an older fast car. I was asked to take a field sobriety test.
I was polite and stayed quiet except to answer questions. It seemed like a reasonable thing for the cops to do to me and we all got through it with no problems.
lazs
You think it's reasonable for some dip**** to pull you over and walk down a line on the road? You'll love the new Homeland Security Act then. I hope you at least support the NRA's views on not putting up with the government wedging themselves inbetween you and your feedoms, one seemingly insignificant law at a time. And no I'm not going to argue with you mr.blavericK. :aok
-
Originally posted by Creamo
You think it's reasonable for some dip**** to pull you over and walk down a line on the road? You'll love the new Homeland Security Act then. I hope you at least support the NRA's views on not putting up with the government wedging themselves inbetween you and your feedoms, one seemingly insignificant law at a time. And no I'm not going to argue with you mr.blavericK. :aok
field sobriety testing has never been a law, it's completely voluntary.
-
And if someone suspected of being under the influence declines?
-
if you can articulate it, arrest them and offer breath test. when you sign your drivers license you give implied consent to a breath test. the key word being articulate.
-
If you refuse to do the FST's (field sobrieity tests), then the cop has to decide if he has enough probable cause to arrest you and make you take a breath/blood/urine test. If you refuse to take the test in Arizona, the DMV will automatically take your license for 1 year. You would have to fight it in an admisitrative hearing at the DMV, not a court of law.
They can do this becuase you don't have a right to a driver's license, the state gives you one.
-
And I think I have paid for the right drive my car anywhere in America after giving Nevada $1600 for registering my car after I shipped it into NV, and $300 this year to register my tags again.
The having to put up with cops pulling over me or say someone like Laz, and making him do anything other than identifying himself and signing a ticket is outragous.
I have applied for a ATF permit to have goofy sport rocketry motors in my garage, and with it it gives the jackboot 21 year old 22K a year ATF tards the right to come into my house. But I won't open the door.
Maybe they will shoot my wife holding a baby, they have done that before.
-
what does thier age and how much they make a year haveto do with it?
hate to be the one to break it to you creamo, but you state considers it a privilege, not a right to drive.
-
Thats my point.
-
Well, that hardly sounds voluntary to me, but whatever. The one time I was pulled over for suspected DUI, the officer just had me follow his finger as he moved it side to side while shining his flashlight in my eyes. It was about 3 am and I was pretty tired and driving my 84 mazda b2000 that had about 1-2 inches of play in the steering, so he probably had good reason to pull me over.
-
I wonder why people are against sobriety tests, but at the same time they accept drug testing.
Sobriety/breathalyzer tests unlike drug testing measures your current impairment and if you are impaired you are a danger to others. I fail to see the problem with this.
-
creamo... if I were you I wouldn't argue with me either.
I do not believe in the government having much power. I do not believe in the homeland security.... I also do not want intoxicated people on the public roads with me. They are of diminished capacity and a danger. They are of diminished capacity because they have chossen to be.
I don't feel that the police abuse the field sobriety thing. If it began to appear that they were something would have to be done.
in my case.. my girlfriend had been drininking. it was a small car (a mustang) I imagine the cop could smell the booze in the car. it was 2:30 in the morning. when I got out and started the test He realized I was not drunk but red eyed from being up and didn't stink of booze... I probly did about 3 quick tests and he poilitely told me I could go after writing me a ticket for seatbelt infraction.
the seatbelt law is much more heinous than the any field sobriety law in my opinion. the seatbelt law is simple do gooder intrusion into my life... still... it is not the police who made the law.
One time a cop tried to give me a lecture on the seatbelt law. I told him thank you but I was an adult and allready knew all the latest statistics and what mangled people looked like but thanked him for his concern. I told him that in my cars with lap belts I wore them but felt the law was a bad law.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Creamo
Maybe they will shoot my wife holding a baby, they have done that before.
They shot your wife while she was holding a baby? Or is this a reference to Ruby Ridge (http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/oklahoma/fbi_raids.html)?
-
Originally posted by lazs2
the seatbelt law is much more heinous than the any field sobriety law in my opinion. the seatbelt law is simple do gooder intrusion into my life... still... it is not the police who made the law.
If forcing you to wear a seatbelt will lower my insurance rates, then you're going to wear that seatbelt, mister! :p
-
if not allowing you to overeat will lower my insurance rates then I think overweight people should be jailed.... and mountain climbers and especially.... swimmers.
the easy thing to do is have different rates for people who indulge in risky behavior.
Helmet laws and seat belt laws have not lowered rates in any case. you were conned... you gave up peoples freedom for nothing.
lazs
-
So this is where all the cops are hanging out, huh? I thought I smelled pork over here. :)
I often thought that the Seminole Indian PD here in Florida was like a privatized police department .... they appear to work at the pleasure of the tribal council... the turnover rate is quite high, and they are one of the lowest paid agencies in Broward.
-
Helmet laws and seat belt laws have not lowered rates in any case
The one thing about wearing a helmet when motorcycling, it does significantly reduce injuries, especially the kind that leave you a vegtable for life. Living as a vegetable for the next 40 years or so with constant expensive medical care at taxpayers expense is a drain on all our wallets.
I don't like to see government intrude on our freedoms and rights to make our own choices, but I hate to see people make bad choices that result in everyone else paying higher taxes.
The city I live in passed an ordinance a couple years ago, that for 6 months a year, we can't park a car on the street in front of our house at night. Might need to plow you see, even if it hasn't snowed in a month, and won't snow for another month. Mind you it never caused a problem before, they could just plow around you, its a big street. This is one law that pisses me off. With 4 cars in our family, 2 in the garage, 2 in the driveway, it gets crowded.
dagoooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooo
-
fair enough dago... can you give me the stats for motorcylists who have been turned into veggetables and are now being supported by the state because they didn't have a helmet on? I believe that the last time someone tried to get those figures he came up with...... zero. it is an urban myth. The busybodies allways lie.
90% or so of all motorcyle injuries are to the lower extremities... It would be far preferable to simply insist that all motorcyclists be insured.
did you know that a major portion of injuries incurred in car wrecks occur to the head? would you be willing to have to wear a helmet in your car to save money..... even if it then turned out that your insurance didn't go down a bit?
lazs
-
The Viper GTS came with the twin bubble roof feature to better facilitate helmets--of course this was just a carry over from the racing version of the car. Personally, I think it would be a bit disconcerting to pull up to a red light and see an 80 year old woman in the neighboring car decked out like she's planning to drag race you to the next light.
-
Gary Busey lives.
This lady (http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/08/01/nohelmet.death.ap/) didn't.
Been hurt in an accident? They're ready (http://www.motorcycle-accidents-lawyers-attorneys.com/motorcycle_accident_stats.html) to help you!
Interesting statistic from the above URL:
Five crash types account for 86% of fatal motorcycle crashes: motorcycle runs-off-road 41%, motorcycle or other vehicle runs traffic control 18%, head-on collision 11%, car turns in front of cycle 8% and motorcycle goes down in roadway 7%.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
90% or so of all motorcyle injuries are to the lower extremities... It would be far preferable to simply insist that all motorcyclists be insured.
That's Florida's approach. If you can get $10,000 worth of insurance, you don't have to wear a helmet.
On the other hand:
According to "Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures" (the Hurt Report). This study examined nearly 4,500 crashes occurring in the Los Angeles area and was sponsored in part by NHTSA in 1981.
1. The most deadly injuries to the accident victims were injuries to the chest and head.
2. The use of the safety helmet is the single-most critical factor in the prevention or reduction of head injuries.
... and there were more points here (http://www.motorcycle-accidents-lawyers-attorneys.com/motorcycle_accident_stats.html).
-
gofaster... that is how the busybodies lie... think about it .... where would you say the "most deadly injuries" on a human body would be? would it surprise you that the "most deadly injuries" to automobile accident victims are to the head and chest areas?
very few people die from finger and toe injuries.
lazs
-
It would appear that your chances of survival are about 10-30% greater if you wear a helmet in a motorcycle crash about the same as if you were wearing a helmet in a car crash.
so why make bikers wear helmets and not automobile drivers? because they can.
lazs
-
FWIW,
I used to get asked at times by bikers why I didn't tell them they should wear a helmet. I figured they knew the price of their head and if they didn't think it was worth more than a helet I didn't either. Unless they were under 18, that was mandatory by law. Another reason was one of the major trauma hospitals in town was also the transplant center. There are lots of folks who could use the parts.
Personally I think that seatbelts should be similar to helmets and that both should be grounds for loss of coverage for insurance. Not liability, just coverage for your loss and injuries. Harvesting could be done for transplants and the state should not be obligated for "heroic" measures to maintain a vegetable if they were not using a belt or helmet. Organs tend to drop in ability to be used for transplants after a while on life support, so once that time has passed, pull the plug. But that is just my cynical feeling after having responded to more than a few collisions. For those under 18 the state still has an obligation to be responsible for your "welfare" so helmets and belts would be mandatory for juviniles.
-
Maverick great concept, but the problem is that most people who don't like to wear helmets are crusty old dudes like Lazs and their organs are shot already.
-
this is true... mav... no problem but it is not the cost of the helmet. It is the difference in the experiance. Why climb mountains or snow ski? why not wear a helmet snow skiing? believe me that is next... as for the insurance? well.... I bet I can allways find a company that will cover me without a helmet or a seatbelt. They may be able to soak a little more out of me but.. they will cover me. I also have health insurance that will cover me even if I am into alligator wrestling or bull riding. They will cover anything that my car insurance won't.
I agree on the under 18 rule tho.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
this is true... mav... no problem but it is not the cost of the helmet. It is the difference in the experiance. Why climb mountains or snow ski? why not wear a helmet snow skiing? believe me that is next... as for the insurance? well.... I bet I can allways find a company that will cover me without a helmet or a seatbelt. They may be able to soak a little more out of me but.. they will cover me. I also have health insurance that will cover me even if I am into alligator wrestling or bull riding. They will cover anything that my car insurance won't.
I agree on the under 18 rule tho.
lazs
Laz,
No matter how good of a MC or car driver you are, you still have to share the road with other folks. No one is good enough to avoid every collision. There are too many people out there driving that are oblivious to their surroundings and the law of averages will eventually catch up to you. It's your choice however, but I don't feel te public should pony up the money to cover you if you do get tagged without using equipment to mitigate injuries.
-
the public has never got tagged with my bill. there is no reason they should. if you can't afford insurance you shouldn't be on the road. I have been in more than a few motorcycle wrecks and have never has any kind of a head injury.. I have been hospitalized and allmost die from motorcycle wrecks. there were no head injuries involved. I would say that the public is far more likely to pay for non fatal but extensive maiming like limb loss or paralized than they are for head injuries.
lazs
-
Graphic evidence (http://poetry.rotten.com/all-kings-horses/0002/kh2.jpg) of a rare head injury.
-
I've tried to ride with a helmet, it just dosen't work for me. I get to dee alot of m/c wrecks due to the San Antonio urbanites making a day ride that goes into dark, after the deer come out. Only seen one fatailty in 5 yrs and he had a helmet on. A deer tried to seperate him and the passenger.
-
thing is.... they didn't use fatalities to get the women to vote to kill the mens freedom... they used.... head injuries that all of us have to pay for.... the millions of brain dead bikers being kept alive on life support in luxury suites in hospitals everywhere that we are all supossedly footing the bill for. Those "millions" ended up to be a lot closer to zero than 100.
it is the way of the left and the women (basicly, government)... demonize a small group... come up with some believable theory that they are costing yu money out of your pocket and then ban em or take as much enjoyment out of what they do as you can knowing that eventually they will roll over and give in saying "it's just not worth it anymore".
lazs
-
my cousin died recently after hitting a deer. He was wearing a helmet and had no head injuries. Mostly broken ribs and scraped up arms and legs. he died from a blood clot 3 days latter in the hospital.
lazs
-
why not wear a helmet snow skiing?
um.. most of us now do but I don't think it should be mandantory.. veg yourself if you want
and children are required to wear them to attend ski school
-
see... told ya. how long before it is a law that you wear a helmet to snowski. Thing is... I don't snow ski... no interest in it at all.. in fact, if people didn't do it it would make my life easier traffic wise on 880. but....
I won't vote to ban it or to make free adults wear helmets while doing it.
I have noticed that in hard hat areas... you hit your "head" constantly... the hard hat is allways scratched up... you never hit your head tho when not wearing a hard hat.
helmets cut down on your hearing, vision and neck mobility but I will not vote to ban em.... I say... wear em if you want. None of my business.
lazs
-
Laz for president!!
-
Originally posted by lazs2
see... told ya. how long before it is a law that you wear a helmet to snowski. Thing is... I don't snow ski... no interest in it at all.. in fact, if people didn't do it it would make my life easier traffic wise on 880. but....
I won't vote to ban it or to make free adults wear helmets while doing it.
I have noticed that in hard hat areas... you hit your "head" constantly... the hard hat is allways scratched up... you never hit your head tho when not wearing a hard hat.
helmets cut down on your hearing, vision and neck mobility but I will not vote to ban em.... I say... wear em if you want. None of my business.
lazs
I agree that we shouldn't be protected from ourselves. However, I don't want to pay for your foolishness with my increased insurance rates or higher taxes. Along with this reduced socialism, let the insurance companies charge what they deem appropriate according to the risk you present.
Cheaper rates to those willing to live more safely or whatever criteria the insurers determine based on their statistics. Oh, and if you deviate from what you tell them then they aren't bound to cover you. No insurance? Then your wages are garnished to repay any health care costs you may incur.
-
helmets cut down on your hearing, vision and neck mobility but I will not vote to ban em.... I say... wear em if you want. None of my business.
lazs
Condoms cut down on feelings of good, it's great to see a State Trooper agrees with Laz.
S! Concho.
-
I agree with Lazs on the fact it should be your choice to wear seatbelts and helmets or anything that dosent affect any one but you for all that matters. Most guys in my profession will agree with that. The problem is in our position not much is open to interpretation, you have to go with the laws on the books. I'm sure glad TX dosent have a helmet law (if you have 10k worth of life insurance).
-
You have plenty of laws that "protect" citizens from themselves. Why is this helmet/seatbelt thing so important? If you look at it from big brothers perspective it makes perfect sense.
-
Originally posted by mora
You have plenty of laws that "protect" citizens from themselves. Why is this helmet/seatbelt thing so important? If you look at it from big brothers perspective it makes perfect sense.
Dude, take off the tinfoil hat.
-
I say... wear em if you want. None of my business.
I agree, each to their own.
Actually I didn't wear one for years until I came close too many times to hitting rocks with my head when I fell..
that and tree limbs.
oh..and they're warm and don't restrict my vision..
they aren't full-face.
as for kids in ski schoolhaving to wear them, it's due to the damned insurance companies and the people that have sued over their kids getting hurt...
I would have my kid (if I had one) wear one until he/she was old enough to pay for their own med bills !
but I treat helmets for skiers the same as for bikers.. let each person decide. don't pay for the health care if they get hurt, let each person bear their own consequences
-
iron... no problem.. if you look at your car insurance you will see a number of discounts are allowed for everything from age, sex to airbags to abs brakes to whatever... simply make those who don't wish to wear helmets or seatbelts pay more .
lazs
-
I can just see it now...
mini-van-driving-soccer-mom getting her and her kids' helmets on before their field trip to see Bambi because mom wouldn't let them see T3
-
I'm all for that lazs, freedom for those willing to pay for it. No irony intended.