Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1K0N on November 20, 2003, 08:17:50 PM
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Derek Smart tells the BC3000 forum how he feels about the next release in two weeks..
He got bitten once on a release that wasn't so epic...But very memorable...
"The POst"
I have been watching in mild amusement as people try to gauge the game's ship date based on various sites (e.g. EB, Amazon etc).
Let me say this again. So everyone please pay attention.
The game has NOT gone Gold
The game is NOT going Gold this week. If it goes Gold next week, it will be a victory of epic proportions. Right now, I'm taking it one day at a time.
Unless something truly drastic happpens, the game is - hopefully - going Gold this month.
Based on an in-hand GM, I am the ONLY person on THIS planet who can say IF the game has in fact gone Gold or not - because I'm the one who gets to do the Gold Master (GM) candidate which gets sent off to Dreamcatcher and then on to production. Even then, if Dreamcatcher signs off on the GM and decide to ship the game at a later date, they can. I have little or no say over that.
I am 100% in COMPLETE control of THIS game and unless EVERY whoopee bug and WIP item is FINISHED and TESTED, its not going gold. I don't give a damn about Thanksgiving, Christmas or the second coming of the anti-Christ. All I care about is that the game I've forked out a fortune and two years to develop, is released COMPLETE and as BUG FREE as possible.
The DC testers and I are working literally around the clock (and on weeekends) to make the game bugfree so that it goes Gold asap. 11/10 was the target Gold date. It came and went because there were still pending issuesin the DB. The game is 100% feature complete as it currently sits on my HDD. What I'm doing is wrapping up WIP items and fixing known bugs/issues.
The minute FEDEX or DHL picks up the GM from me and Dreamcatcher ack receipt, run their final compliance tests etc etc, the game will be officially Gold. At that point, I will make an announcement, whether or not Dreamcatcher does so or not.
Stay calm and just ignore the noise and ludicrousness of guessing a game's Gold status.
[ 11-13-2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]
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President, 3000AD Inc.
Designer/Lead Developer
The Battlecruiser Series
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Is Derek Smart related to Maxwell Smart???????
Would you believe..........?????????
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If you don't know anything about him, it's worth googling. Derek Smart is a wacky guy who has.... made an impression on the gaming community.
Seriously, it's worth searching. He's a on-again/off-again total nut.
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Trivia question:
What year did he post that?
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Trivia question:
What year did he post that?
heh, could be any year. I got burnt on the first incarnation of BC3K
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Still waiting for BC2000 to go gold.
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ludicrousness <---is that an actual word? If so, how do you say it?
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hey, as much of an a**hole he's supposed to be, thats the right attitude when it comes to releasing a game.
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If you note the edit date, 11/13/03 then he's talking about the multiplayer version of battlecruiser, Universal Combat.
D. Smart is not known for his tact, but from what ive seen in the gaming industry lately, only this guy and HTC are the only companies that seem to care about the QUALITY of the product and not the release date/money to be made. Probably because they both OWN their creations while the rest have potatod their intellectual property to big corporations.
Here's a press release:
DreamCatcher Games Announces Universal Combat
Engage in Infinite Warfare on Your PC
September 11th , 2003. DreamCatcher Games today announced the first details of the newly titled Universal Combat, for the PC-CD, with the unveiling of the new website at http://www.universal-combat.com. A full-featured demo is expected to follow the first week of October.
Universal Combat brings together the greatest components of any war together in a single game. Conceived in late 2001 as Battlecruiser Generations, the fifth title in the long-running Battlecruiser series, it morphed into much more than a massive space simulation. As Universal Combat, the new action-based focus, direction and premise of the new incarnation caters to a wider audience of action and space sim fans alike.
The game is one of incomprehensible scale and gamers really can choose any aspect of combat they wish. Choices of combat styles and gameplay include:
- Engage in compelling multi-player games against up to 63 other gamers.
- Take part in carefully designed campaign and instant action scenarios.
- Pilot more than 54 different air and space crafts, from basic multi-role combat fighters and low altitude multi-role gunships to massive carriers, cruisers and transporters.
- Control 22 land vehicles and 10 naval vessels including jeeps, tanks, SAMs, carriers, LCACs and even nuclear submarines.
- Go ballistic with 20 first person weapons and 28 characters with over 1500 animations.
- Explore over 250 planets with enormous planetary detail spanning more than 21,000 planet side mission zones containing various bases.
- Choose any of 9 careers as a heroic pilot, ship’s captain or lethal recon marine infiltrating a hostile base in a low altitude gunship or LCAC craft.
“Universal Combat has evolved from a classic, and in the midst of developing the initial BCG game, we realized that we were onto something much bigger, that a larger gaming audience would thrive upon”, commented Richard Wah Kan, DreamCatcher’s President and CEO.
Lead Developer and Executive Producer, Derek Smart is excited by the game’s new form, “As a producer, you’re always delighted when your games reach a wider audience, and in Universal Combat, I’m sure we’ll do just that. There are elements that existing fans will love, but tons of new stuff that everyone can get their teeth into! Spawning what I hope will be a new long running franchise which caters to action and die hard Battlecruiser fans alike, has been a tremendous and risky undertaking to say the least. The inclusion of FPS-based action elements in the 2001 Battlecruiser Millennium title, took the series in a new direction and this new action based franchise allows us to build upon those [action based] elements to a greater extent.”
As with all Derek Smart games, details are important. Several new design elements will add to the experience:
- New action based focus, complete with a new interface and heavily revised control scheme for ease of use, regardless of craft or vehicle.
- New shader-based graphics and animation engine, complete with the third generation of the industry's most advanced and seamlessly integrated planetary terrain engine ever developed for a game. The new terrain engine is capable of handling regions the size of real world planets instead of boxed in regions (e.g. 5km sq) in zoned area as in other games. This allows massive planet side combat engagements which can span small concentrated areas, large continents or even entire worlds alike.
- All components of SINGE, our proprietary Seamlessly Integrated Game Environment, have been further advanced to expand and streamline our massive game worlds. This allows gamers to play in space or on planets (including land and now underwater environments) and be able to transition from one to the other seamlessly. With the inclusion of naval assets control, new advanced dynamics and AI kernels, the integrated battlefield is not just relegated to driving around in vehicles or low altitude crafts – in a box. This new incarnation of SINGE blends space flight, planetary flight, vehicular dynamics, naval asset dynamics and first person action to provide adrenaline pumping land, sea, air and space engagements.
- New 3D object database with excess of 500 unique high detail 3D models and assets.
About DreamCatcher Games:
DreamCatcher Games is a fast-growing publisher and distributor of interactive entertainment for both core gamers and the mass market. Established in 1996, DreamCatcher is committed to publishing great games on the PC, PlayStation®2 computer entertainment system, Xbox®, GameCube™ and Game Boy® Advance. Visit http://www.DreamCatchergames.com for further details.
About 3000AD, Inc:
3000AD is an indie game development company founded in 1992 by fourteen year industry veteran Derek Smart. Made famous by the long running industry recognized Battlecruiser series, 3000AD develops games for a niche hardcore audience. Universal Combat marks its first foray into the mass market action forum. Visit http://www.3000ad.com for more info on the company’s products, owner/founder and its gaming audience.
Of course, you can check out the pics and demo movies: http://www.3000ad.com/downloads/uc.shtml
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Derek Smart is notorious for the original 3000AD release, of a game that _did not work_. He has to be careful about subsequent releases, because of the ill-will he's generated.
I looked at the Nov. 18 trailer for UC, and I must admit I was underimpressed. A trailer is supposed to be cinematic and to blow your socks off. This showed some spaceships moving around with 5-year-old graphics, and getting shot. The gameplay didn't look that exciting either. Of course, we'll have to see.
The other part of the reputation is that of concentrating on the simulation and its complexity without paying attention to the game part -- that is, putting the simulation in situations that are compelling.
Of course, this is a problem with most space sims. On the one hand, you have a complex simulation that's entirely made up (from the trailer, the fastest interstellar craft was travelling at about mach 3); on the other, the "human interest" aspect that we're familiar with from so many science fiction movies is pretty much lacking. It has to be, since the game is a simulation.
But we'll see. I thought about checking into this title after OIO's post, but after seeing the trailer, I don't think I will.
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"Derek Smart is notorious for the original 3000AD release, of a game that _did not work_. "
Yep. He got bit by the big corporation releasing his game unfinished to make money. Then after the fiasco he bought the rights back from that company, Take2 (which ceased to exist soon after) and developed the game on his own, with his own money. Ive been following this game since the take2 release.. and, as you can read from his own post, he does not release anything until its ready.
"A trailer is supposed to be cinematic and to blow your socks off."
Do not confuse marketting trailers with demo trailers. This is not a marketting trailer. They show you a mere FRACTION of a FRACTION of the game.. the way its IN the game. cinematic trailers are like hollywood movie trailers: designed to hype you into cashing out your money for a poor product. See Freelancer for a good example.
"The other part of the reputation is that of concentrating on the simulation and its complexity without paying attention to the game part -- that is, putting the simulation in situations that are compelling. "
Define compelling. If I was looking at aces high through what you just said, i'd take it as in AH having good WW2 plane modelling and 'compelling' situations meaning getting said WW2 planes to fight each other. If im right, then look at my post in the other BC3000 thread where i described a typical day in the game.
"Of course, this is a problem with most space sims. On the one hand, you have a complex simulation that's entirely made up (from the trailer, the fastest interstellar craft was travelling at about mach 3);"
Im so confused by this statement. You saying that because its a completely made up world 1000 years in the future, you're griping because ships go mach3 only? What is the relevance in this? BTW, the ships do go much faster than that.. its the same thing as you seeing a film of an AH furball and complaining its sucks because the P51 you saw in the film was flying at 200mph only.
"on the other, the "human interest" aspect that we're familiar with from so many science fiction movies is pretty much lacking. It has to be, since the game is a simulation."
and this one beats the previous one. human interest? What? :confused: :confused:
Either way, the game BC:Millenium can be bought ridiculously cheap (less than $30). Grab a copy and judge the game by it.
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Like I said in my previous post in the other thread OIO I hope he does the next version better than the very first. I might have to break down and buy BC Millenium just to check it out. If I don't like it I am sure I can pass it on to my cousins oldest boy.
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Well, if that's the way it is in the game, it looks pretty boring. Cinematic doesn't have to mean cutscene or lying; it just has to show something interesting. I have no doubt the darn thing does more than that, but well, if you're gonna sell a product, make it interesting to the rest of the world too.
And, yeah, AH has many of the same problems. Great simulation, but the gameplay is lacking. Field capture strat is just boring. And the way the events are run is amazingly incompetent.
One advantage AH has, however, is that the balance has been battlefield tested, so by simulating ww2 air combat faithfully, it can create compelling dogfights.
Those who think a space sim is easier to do because everything is "made up" are just wrong. It's gotta be both believable and balanced. And by believable, I mean we're pretty much stuck with newton for fighting physics, but beyond that, I want systems failures, pieces flying off, engagements at ridiculously high speeds, audible radio chatter, alarms going off, and a way to represent the experience beyond a bunch of external views, sparking ships and "This is not good" before a voodoo-class explosion.
By balanced, that means that there's got to be more than one way to prosecute a fight. For example, in AH, there's a whole bunch of theory regarding ACM, wingman tactics, assault techniques, and different weapons systems work in different ways. That's a great step. (now if the arena were anything but vulch-based, we might have a game). The demo did not show that. All it showed were ships in space, getting shot up, their shields going from blue, to red, then the same sets of sparks on the outside before they exploded. Yawn.
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Take2 BC3K release and 3000ad BC3Kv2.09 (the game as it shouldve been released) is so different its like comparing MS Flight Simulator 1 to Air Warrior3.
BC3K v2.09 and BC:M is more like Air Warrior3 to Aces High (current version).
big, big, big differences.
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"Well, if that's the way it is in the game, it looks pretty boring. Cinematic doesn't have to mean cutscene or lying; it just has to show something interesting. I have no doubt the darn thing does more than that, but well, if you're gonna sell a product, make it interesting to the rest of the world too."
That be true. Though just so you know, almost every 'showpiece' that Dsmart puts out is mainly for those who already have seen the game. The 'niche' game dev. comment in the press release isnt there for no reason. And that reason is simple: not many people nowadays can stomach a game where you have to think and LEARN a lot of stuff..they want click'n'shoot play.
"Those who think a space sim is easier to do because everything is "made up" are just wrong. It's gotta be both believable and balanced. And by believable, I mean we're pretty much stuck with newton for fighting physics"
I wanted newton physics in the game too, more 'realistic'. But then again, the game IS 1000 years in the future.. i bet the Roman Empire never imagined their best race horses would be left in the dust by a honda civic.
"...but beyond that, I want systems failures, pieces flying off, engagements at ridiculously high speeds, audible radio chatter, alarms going off, and a way to represent the experience beyond a bunch of external views, sparking ships and "This is not good" before a voodoo-class explosion."
Ho, trust me, you got all that. :)
"By balanced, that means that there's got to be more than one way to prosecute a fight. For example, in AH, there's a whole bunch of theory regarding ACM, wingman tactics, assault techniques, and different weapons systems work in different ways. That's a great step. (now if the arena were anything but vulch-based, we might have a game). The demo did not show that. All it showed were ships in space, getting shot up, their shields going from blue, to red, then the same sets of sparks on the outside before they exploded. Yawn. [/B][/QUOTE]
As in all games, the only way to blow something up is to shoot at it. Its the same here. However, you may also destroy a ship by beaming a sabotage party on board (intruders put bomb on the reactor), by using your tractor beam as an offensive/defensive tool, making them fly into your minefield, sending EVA marines to damage specific ship parts (aka eva marines actually walk on top of the enemy ship and can target and destroy the engines, gun port, launch bays, etc), getting them cought in another ship's explosion (starstations particularly vulnerable to this...you can decloak and blow up a ship thats docking to create much more damage to the startstation than a missile volley)....
or you can lure them inside a planet's atmosphere and use your ships superior speed to pop back into space and nuke the area the enemy ship is in (or use the RANDOM weapon and blow the whole planet if you feeling evil)....
There are dozens of ways to carry on a fight. and you can fight it in 3rd person, in tactical view or in first person.
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Actually after being the one who bought the Bomb version years ago, I swore I would never ever purchase another game by him, I may actually buy this one because the reviews show its a great product other than 5 year old graphcs...
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OK
I found a copy at the software ETC. for $29 BC3000 millenium Gold.
After installing the program I run for the first time and I get an error message.... So much for first impressions, or second impressions..
Training is not an option, it just doesn't happen.. The manual is written in a font size of 4, sorry about my luck, The online help is lacking and the BBS tells newbies not to bother them with trivial manual type questions.. RTFM.... Wish I could read the fricken manual...
Smart could learnn something from HTC as far as customer service is concerned..
No biggy
IKON
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the manual is in PDF format in the CD as well if its hard for you to read the printed one (actually, the printed manual is short compared to the PDF).
I did say from the start the game has a steep learning curve. Its very complex.. think learning Falcon4, only on steroids.
As far as the error messages, check the troubleshooting in the manual. I never had any problem with the game at all in any of my 3 machines.
And yes, the BBS for the game is very strict. For a game of such inmense complexity, we got bombed by people with the mental capacity of 10 year olds demanding they be spoonfed how to play the game... after 1000+ such posts the forums got locked down and people literally be told to use the SEARCH feature or RTFM.
e-mail me if you got any questions..maybe we can track down that error message of yours jalondon@bellsouth.net :)
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Thanks OIO!
No actually that helps!
I just want to know who chose the music!? early 90's techno hip hop I spent 10 minutes frantically looking for the music "Off" selection:)
IKON
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im at work now, so dont expect a reply until tonight if you send e-mail to me today :D
edit: i misread your music whine. hehe. I hate to tell you this, but c'mon bud, any and all games have the music off option under menus labeled either SETUP or OPTIONS or CONFIG.
dont make me spoonfeed you :D :D :p
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I am going to start out simple by just mining moons in the SOL system and selling minerals. Then when I get better at the interface I will venture out. The navigation map seems kinda difficult...
OIO, I tractor beamed a disabled NME craft, what could I have done with it? I don't see an option to stow it in a cargo hold.?!
OR do I?
IKON
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You cant tractor another ship inside your craft unless that craft is a support craft assigned to that ship (aka, its your craft).
Any disabled vessel can be tractored and delivered to a nearby starstation. When you dock with the station it will ask you if you want to deliver the tractored vessel. Warning: If you say 'no' you will dock and the disabled ship will stay floating outside the station. If you say yes, and its an enemy ship, you get rewarded in experience points (which build up towards a promotion if you in military).
And before you ask, if you find a 'cargo pod' floating in space, you tractor it and 'dock' with it..your ship will pick the pod up.
I suggest you always make a SHUTTLE do any and all tractoring and picking pods / ejected pilots up. You dont want to be cought with shields down and tractoring another ship when hostiles enter the region.
Mining is nice, but its very time consuming. You can go around and do several trade runs while your mining drones chug it up. I never played a trader, but I remember reading that certain radiation control units were very profitable to trade between certain SOL system startstations *grin*
The MOON region is the safest one to be while you learn the game. Think of it as 'newbie' zone.
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How many years did it take for that patch to get released?
There's a big difference between a publisher pushing someone to deliver a piece of crap game prematurely and a publisher asking a programmer to deliver on promises.
The publishers don't ask for anything that the programmers don't promise. It was Smart's classic flaw... and one that CRS took to nearly the same level. They both promised the world before they comprehended how much programming was involved.
MiniD
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I think patch v2.09 took a year.. off the top of my head. The patch was so big it virtually was a completely different game. And the guy offered the patch for FREE and even the whole v2.09 game to be downloaded for FREE from the internet... when have you seen a company do that? Only HTC comes close by giving free head to head in AH (though we cant really compare a single player game from the early 90's to aces high online only gameplay).
And mini, one sad thing is that most developers sign off the rights of their products to the bigger companies... if the bigwigs 'upstairs' want to ship it, it will be shipped, regardless of what the devs. say. Thats why i mentioned that D. Smart bought the rights for his game back from Take2. All releases after that have been through publishers with him holding the legal veto to say if the game ships or not.
Cornered Rat Software had the same issue... they were forced to ship before it was ready. SWG I now believe, had the same issue...all released before ready. If you think about it, these big companies dont really care if the product is faulty..they know it makes money by selling the box version and the average subscriber lifetime of 6 months (which is when people get so fed up they leave).. and in those 6 months the devs keep perfecting the 'beta' game until it finally becomes 'gold' ... usually a year or 2 after the release. See Everquest for a perfect example.
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"forced to ship before it was ready" is one perspective. "Forced to ship on the promised date" might be a more accurate one.
Smart basically defined promising the sky. You comment on the "early" "forced" release. If I recall, it was released at least a year late (almost two)... and even then it was a worthless POS. Saying they finally finished it a year after that is not really saying much.
MiniD
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"The publishers don't ask for anything that the programmers don't promise."
I think thats the whole flaw in your argument mini. :)
You may consider BC3K V2.09 to be a POS.. that could be your opinion based on what a game should be, according to you. Just like I think Everquest is a POS game but I love Final Fantasy XI. same game type, different approach.
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Yeah, and contrary to what some think, CRS took the blame for the WW2OL fiasco on themselves; they did not shift it to strategy first.
A distributor doesn't say all of a sudden "Hey, I got an idea, you are scheduled to release in fall 2004, but we're going to release in fall 2003."
The problem is usually inexperience and optimism. My experience is that debugging time increases something on the order of the complexity of the software to a power of two. In other words, a game with twice the features of another will take four times longer to debug. Add to this the naive enthusiasm of coders, who when the bulk of the coding is done think the product is going to work out by the third compile at the latest, and you get products that always seem to finish late.
Now you've got a publisher, who has reserved some time with the duplicators, worked up release date to fit in with other products, has made the contacts with the retailers, and set up the advertisements. A delay in release is going to be costly. Usually, the contract will specify that the developer who incurs the overruns incurs the costs (=pays a penalty). CRS couldn't afford those costs, and odds are Mr. Smart couldn't either.
But when it comes time to assign the blame or credit for a product, that goes always and ultimately to the developer. The developer selects the distributor and agrees to the terms. If the developer doesn't deliver a functional product on the deadline, don't put the blame elsewhere.
And,y eah, Mr. Smart better have "escape" clauses in everything else he releases. That's the only way he can get people to trust him.
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actually, since 2.09 hes never released anything until its ready. get bit and learn I guess. :D
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I never said 2.09 was a POS... the initial release of BC2k was definately a POS. And that release was at least a year late if not two years.
You're talking like someone that didn't know anything about BC prior before 99. Really... the history goes back several years before that.
MiniD
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lol ive been in the 3000ad forums since 96~97. I know ;)
I bought the Take2 version when I was in my country..cost me 2 months worth of allowance back then when i was in high school.
I believe i misunderstood you then. I thought you said the original release was a POS and even after the 2.09 release it was 'still' a POS. Sorry :)
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Cool feature?!
It locks up hard at Random, I have to hold the power button on the box to shutdown...
"Serenity Now"
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I just packed up my copy of BC3000 and I am shipping it back to Derek Smartarse free of charge. Abomination is the only term I can describe it best as..