Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SFRT - Frenchy on November 21, 2003, 03:59:15 PM
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Whatching a xxx show on JFK, I was wondering ... what is your take on the purpose of the cover up by the gov?
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XXX show?
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It is considered polite to cover your lap area while watching an XXX show regardless of political power.
lazs
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Pee-Wee Herman didn't and look what happened to him!
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What cover up?
There was a show on PBS's Frontline that went into deatil about Oswald's life.
Guess what? There's no doudt what so ever that he was a kook and killed JFk by his self.
They even talked with his brother who says he did it alone.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oswald/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oswald/conspiracy/
Despite what Oliver Stone and numerous other "Conspiracy Theory" writers and programs try to portray there was no cover up and no conspiracy.
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I think it was the Japanese. They were still pissed at the scratches on their destroyer from his PT boat. ;)
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Which coverup?
The one about the fake moon landings?
The one about Tang being on the early space flights?
How about the one about Aids being invented by the CIA?
How about Flouride actually being put in our water for mind control?
I know, you mean the coverup that those big antennas we see are actually beaming government directions into our heads (quick, get out the tinfoil hats).
Maybe, and I know this is a stretch, maybe Oswald really did kill Kennedy? Maybe him having his rifle, of the exact same "not common" caliber in the book depository was all one wild coincidence? Yeah, thats it, despite the angle of the bullet travel matching his position there.
Yeah, its all a coverup.
Never mind all the evidence, never mind his family saying they are sure he did it.
sheeeeeeeesh
dago
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I think the CIA plucked him. <> :D :D
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Whatever. Everyone knows Elvis clipped JFK from the passenger seat of the Aurora shortly before docking with the Alien Mothership to pick up a supply of "Special Sauce" to mix with Flouride in everyones drinking water.
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Originally posted by Glasses
I think the CIA plucked him. <> :D :D
I wonder why they use black choppers in the movies.. those wouldn't go unnoticed, like they should be :>
Rather just have a regularly painted chopper, or better yet.. a fake news chopper, that would definately go unnoticed and would actually blend in quite well under certain circumstances.
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Damnit Fishu it's my conspiracy fantasy! Don't mess with it!!! :D
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so all you amazing people believe in the "Magic Bullet Theory"
your more stupid then I thought:aok
6 FBI marksmen tried to shoot at a movin target in the time alotted.....none succeeded.....If i was you....I'd go whine to the FBI that there marksmen suck:rofl
he was a patsy......and he wasn't alone.
3 shots on a moving target in what 6.3 seconds....with a cheap Italian rifle....gimme a break:rolleyes:
did he participate....yes....was he alone.....no.
watch the Zapruder Film....the head shot came from the front....sorry...not the back.
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Yep, he sure is dead.
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Like SLO said ..... most of you proably consider yourself knowlegeable about guns, eh?
Have you been there in Dallas ..
that's one hell of a shot at a moveing target from that building.
Everythign else you might as well ignore ... becuase people lie and are fooled (even when they are there themselves)
CNN Poll
19% think Oswald did it
75% think he didn't
(guess 6% said not enf. info, I don't know;.. ccn didn't say)
I say he couldn't have done it ... alone at least.... Based on what people say about the bullets and angles.
It woulda been so easy to do it from that grassy knoll and fall back behind the hill after you shoot...
Go there and look or get good pictures ... judge for yourself if you think he could do it ... don't listen to other peoples BS
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I'm a lousy rifle shot but it looked fairly easy to me from the diagram.
lazs
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6 FBI marksmen tried to shoot at a movin target in the time alotted.....none succeeded.....If i was you....I'd go whine
They had a computer animation in the frontline show run realtime and to scale. Oswald had practiced with that rifle regularly. When in the marines he qualified as a "sharpshooter".
Just days before the assassination, there was another sighting. A man resembling Oswald was seen target practicing. He almost started a fight when he began shooting at other people's targets.
RIFLE RANGE EMPLOYEE : Now, this number eight target is the target that Oswald would supposedly have shot at. One witness has said he helped him sight his scope in and said he was real good, but I don't know.
And it was 3 shots in 8 sec not 6.5. There was 2 witnesses on the floor right below Oswald that heard the 3 shots from right above them.
The fact is he missed the first shot, hit JFKs neck in the second and his third shot was a kill shot. Oswald had used this rifle to attempt to kill an ex General right wing kook. He missed that shot and practiced.
They rifle had his palm print and finger prints on it.
The public has been bombarded with one kooky conspiracy theory after another. It is no wonder they have problems filtering through the BS.
Heres the transcript of thay show.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oswald/etc/script.html
Everyone who knew Oswald knows he did it. People ignore the reality that Oswald had a motive, means and opportunity all on his own. He did it.
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had a lawyer freind with a carcano in pristine condition.
had a 1000 dollar bet no one could make thos shots ( plural ) in the time alloted.
he still has his 1000 no one will take the bet.
its impossible you can barly cycle the rifle that fast and it is just not accurate enough.
this is with allowing deformed bullets :)
p.s. all bullets that are fired are deformed and expecialy all bullets that pass thru bone. ( speaking of regular full metal jacket military ammo.)
the story we are given is patently false. what really happend? who knows occams razor says powerfull men. not lone "better shot than god" assasins with huge weird assosiations with powerfull men like oswald.
im thinking jfk was pissin off the people who run our country so they wacked him. hell we were in a war under false pretenses at the time. is one mans death so hard to understand? these guys were and are butchers. human life has zero value to them.
wrap your head around that first the rest is easy.
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man... your lawyer friend is sure lucky... either that or he has one of the worst carcanos ever.... oswalds rifle was capable of 3 shots in the time frame stated and was accurate enough and.... he was a good enough shot and.... people below him heard him shooting 3 times... three empty recently fired cases were found.
get over it... everything isn't some sort of conspiracy... even if it is... there is not enough proof. nothing that happened was impossible. get over it. plenty of other whacko theories for you to wrap yourself around.
plus.... bunch of people must have been in on it besides the ones killed... if so... it is the best kept secret ever recorded.
lazs
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Dolf Vader, looks like your lawyer friend has a bet from Laz! ;)
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Some basic facts that contradict most conspiracy theories:
1.The "pristine" bullet was not pristine. It was in fact severely flattened and its markings matched the rifle that had Oswald’s fingerprints, just like the other bullets did.
2.The pristine bullet was not "magic" either. The second shot that hit both Kennedy and Connally did not change direction. It had a straight trajectory. Kennedy was sitting in an elevated position, above Connally. Connally had turned in reaction to the first shot.
3.Bodies shot from the back fall forwards and backwards, not always forwards. Depends on their position when shot. More importantly, Kennedy moves forward for a split second upon impact of the second shot. He then falls to the left and back. The entry wound was on the upper REAR of his head.
4.There are no entry wounds from the front. The angle of the entry wounds rule out any shots from the grassy knoll.
5.There was no fourth shot. This theory came from an audio engineer using audio from a motorcycle cop’s microphone and has since been disproved. The cop was nowhere near where the audio engineer thought he was.
6.The three shots occurred in 8 seconds, not 6.3 seconds. Plenty of time for this particular model of rifle. Try it.
7.Oswald was a very good shot. These three shots were less then 100 yards. Records exist which show him scoring nearly perfect with 200 yard targets, similar in size to a head target.
yowser
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Three shots were heard from below where oswald shot. Three recently fired cases that all came from oswalds rifle were found near it.
I thought the range was closer to 150 yards than 200? still... the 6.5 round is very flat shooting. wouldn't make much diference. most people of average ability can hit 100 yard targets of head size (most can do 4" groups even) with open sights... half that with a scope from a rest easily.
sorry... nothing magic about any of it. it may not have happened that way but it was not impossible or even extremely difficult.
lazs
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It was the secret ninja sniper I know him:aok
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At the Pan American exposition in Buffalo NY, the crowd was startled by the sound of two pistol shots, so close together as to be almost simultaneous. At the same moment President McKinley staggered backward, with pallid face, and a fierce commotion began at the spot where he had stood. The stranger had suddenly held a pistol almost against his breast and fired two shots in rapid succession.
Before he could fire again the secret-service men flung themselves upon him, bearing him to the floor. The commotion and excitement were so great that the exact details of the struggle were difficult to obtain, and several conflicting stories were told.
How could the assassin have fired two pistol shots nearly simultaneously, and then not have enough time to get off a third before he was tackled? Why has executive protection been so lax? Why did the investigation devote so much time to Czolgosz and not look for a conspiracy? Why was there a Pan-American exposition 4 years before the invention of the airplane?
I think it is apparent Leon Czolgosz was a patsy, but now we will never know. His execution shut him up forever.
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Originally posted by mrblack
It was the secret ninja sniper I know him:aok
there is no such thing as a ninja sniper as his ub3rness as a ninja would totally negate any need to be a dweeby old sniper.
Oswald either did it on his own, or if a conspiracy then he winged him as well.
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ROBERT OSWALD : This is a struggle that has gone on with me. This is mind over heart. The mind tells me one thing, the heart tells me something else. But the facts are there. And I say to people who want to distort the facts and pick them out, I say, "What do you do with his rifle? What do you do with his pistol? What do you do with his general opportunity? What do you do with his actions?" To me, you can't reach but one conclusion. There's hard physical evidence there. It's good that people raise questions and say, "Wait a minute. Let's take a second look at this." I think that's great, you know? But when you take the second look and the third and the fortieth and the fiftieth -- hey, enough's enough. It's there. Put it to rest.
2 co workers of Oswald's were on the 5th floor below Oswald.
Mr. NORMAN : We was sitting on the fifth floor, directly under the sixth floor windows. The shots came from above and there was a gun and the shots were sounding, "Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click." So there was three shots fired right up over us when we were sitting on the fifth floor
You can believe the government are liars and hiding stuff. But how can you discount the numerous independent witnesses that have no reason at all to lie on Oswald's behal? Even the people closest to him, the ones who you would expect to embrace the "patsy" conspiracy non-sense know he did it.
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"about JFK assacination"
Je sais pas qui a tué JFK, mais moi je sais que tu viens de tuer ton prof. d'anglais :D
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
How could the assassin have fired two pistol shots nearly simultaneously, and then not have enough time to get off a third before he was tackled? Why has executive protection been so lax? Why did the investigation devote so much time to Czolgosz and not look for a conspiracy? Why was there a Pan-American exposition 4 years before the invention of the airplane?
I think it is apparent Leon Czolgosz was a patsy, but now we will never know. His execution shut him up forever.
Yup he was a CIA time traveler sent back through time to kill President McKinley who had planned on exposing the evils of the military industrial complex.
edit
damn, did straffo just confess?
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big oooopppsss ...
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Originally posted by Pooh21
there is no such thing as a ninja sniper as his ub3rness as a ninja would totally negate any need to be a dweeby old sniper.
Oswald either did it on his own, or if a conspiracy then he winged him as well.
No it's true he Is now living with Hitler and Elvis in a secret bunker In Las Vegas.
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All I believe is that the shooter shot from the sewer drain by the curb in front of the car, and that the government was covering up a lot of information.
eskimo
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downangle 6.2 seconds moving target headsized. carcano with military surplus ammo.
benched the rifle is not that accurate. get over it laz sorry.
cite
http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr795-fbifib.html
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I dunno, Ive been in the army one way or another since I was 15, and I have used bolt-action rifles alot both in the military and as a civilian. And if you can find me a guy who puts three rounds in a 1/2 moving target at 100+ meters under six seconds with a bolt-action rifle and scope, I will be very impressed. Personally I dont think anyone can do that. Marine or not. Heck I'd be hard pressed to hit a stationary elephant at 100 meters under those conditions, and I consider myself a good shot (heh, dont we all eh ;) ).
*shrug* I could be wrong of cource, but in my opinion, that simple fact is the biggest hole in the lone-gunman theory.
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I just saw a TV prog about it....very interesting. One of oswalds score card in the marines for rapid fire marksmenship @ 200yrds had a score of 48 and flipped the page and had a score of 49 outta 50...so i wouldn't call him a bad shot. The shots he fired as others above have said was in 8 secs....not 6, the range was 80yrds too.
Maybe i'm a tad boring but i don't believe in that conspiracy theory crap. Probably cause there isn't any....
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Wait...is he still dead?!
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First time I ever fired a large rifle was my mauser K98, with stock sights. I filled a tuna can rapid fire with 3 holes out of 4 shots at 25 meters 1st shot was 1 in too low. I was never in the military,nor trained to shoot more then my dad showing me how it works when I was a kid.
edit: oops meant 25 meters
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Did any one see the history channel show featuring Oswald's girl friend and the wife of a mortician who left for 2 days, returned and took is family on a multi day road trip to only returned home after seeing Oswald assasinated on TV by Jack Ruby? stating every thing is ok now. Also on this show there were several witnesses and logbook entries discribing a bullet hole in the windshield that showed that a bullet had passed through the windshield from the front. one witness was the manager at the Ford Motor Company who witnessed the replacement and destruction of the windshield that was ordered by the Secret Service. The bullet hole in the windshield had been mentioned on 2 other shows by different people. This show discribes coverups by 3 departments of the Federal government, the FBI, CIA and the Secret Service. The shooters were probably maffia hit men. The only person who was high enough and had enough power to control all 3 departments was Lyndon Johnson. The assasination was a covert operation between the CIA, Maffia, Corrupt Bussiness men and Government officials. I also find it interesting that the assasination was in Texas, Johnson's home state. Oswald was involved in the assasination to some degree was the scape goat and murdered to prevent him from talking
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"...And if you can find me a guy who puts three rounds in a 1/2 moving target at 100+ meters under six seconds with a bolt-action rifle and scope, I will be very impressed......that simple fact is the biggest hole in the lone-gunman theory.'
Well, you only got the distance, time and the number of hits wrong...all in one sentence. Other then that you seem to have all the "simple facts" down fine. :rolleyes:
I don't think it's accidental that most conspiracy proponents don't even know the most basic facts, including the distance of the shots, the timing of the shots, angle\trajectory of shots, entry and exit wounds, etc. Most of their information seems to come second or thirdhand and they probably couldn't even tell you the original source.
If I wanted to prove a conspiracy, I'd forget about proving there was more then one shooter and focus on who Oswald was "working for". Plenty of room for speculation there and the facts won't get in the way as easily.
yowser
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Originally posted by straffo
"about JFK assacination"
Je sais pas qui a tué JFK, mais moi je sais que tu viens de tuer ton prof. d'anglais :D
:rofl
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And the worste part of all this is.
I wonder if his kids ever saw the zapruder film?
Very sad the grew up with out there Father.
Can you imagine having to look up to uncle Teddy:(
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Originally posted by meddog
Did any one see the history channel show featuring Oswald's girl friend and the wife of a mortician who left for 2 days, returned and took is family on a multi day road trip to only returned home after seeing Oswald assasinated on TV by Jack Ruby? stating every thing is ok now. Also on this show there were several witnesses and logbook entries discribing a bullet hole in the windshield that showed that a bullet had passed through the windshield from the front. one witness was the manager at the Ford Motor Company who witnessed the replacement and destruction of the windshield that was ordered by the Secret Service. The bullet hole in the windshield had been mentioned on 2 other shows by different people. This show discribes coverups by 3 departments of the Federal government, the FBI, CIA and the Secret Service. The shooters were probably maffia hit men. The only person who was high enough and had enough power to control all 3 departments was Lyndon Johnson. The assasination was a covert operation between the CIA, Maffia, Corrupt Bussiness men and Government officials. I also find it interesting that the assasination was in Texas, Johnson's home state. Oswald was involved in the assasination to some degree was the scape goat and murdered to prevent him from talking
You are simply regugitating back the same 'ole conspiracy crap you have been spoon fed.
btw the reason it happened in Dallas, Texas is because that's where Oswald was...
Best thing for you to do is not watch the history channel because 99% is total bs sensationalism to attract viewers. There is your "conspiracy".
Steve it was 8 sec and its not like he fired a tight group, 1 shot missed, 1 shot hit his neck and the 3rd killed him. Remember all the bs about the "skillz" of the DC snipers?
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Firing on moving targets...
was with a Belgian-Browning Auto-5 two deer seasons ago. Standing on a drive as the last stander in line, 4 deer were gradually accelerated down the line as they were repeatedly missed by 3 hunters spaced 100 yards down the line.
75 yards on the run 2 rounds into a doe and a 3rd shot into the decent 10 point behind her. Upon examination of the deer I put both rounds into the doe less than 3 inches apart which did a number on both lungs and heart, and the placement of the shot on the buck again got both lungs and heart. The shots were fired by whats been described me as 'rapid fire' though I didn't pay close attention to how quick they were. I'd have to say all 3 rounds were fired in under 4-5 seconds (I've been known to put 3 hits into a coyote in under 2 seconds...i hate those little bastards). This is with a semi automatic shotgun with limited recoil and iron sights. I had the advantage of seeing both deer coming through open woods about 50 yards prior to when I fired, and hearing them from a greater distance.
I highly doubt that the shots could be made using anything higher than a 4x scope setting, tunnel vision at that range is too tight for a moving target the size of a man while cycling a bolt action rifle with quite a kick, in my non-expert opinion. I couldn't make the shot and I like to consider myself a very skilled marksman. If I can shoot a high score in Bianche Cup style shooting with a stock 9mm the I'd like to think I'd be able to come close to making the shots. Time sacrifices the accuracy, and to make the 3 shots accurately (not at all an impossible task) within the allowed timeframe (8-10 seconds) is certainly a task that few if any shooters could accomplish no matter their credentials and training.
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Here we go again... Where do you get "3 shots accurately"? He missed the first 1. The second one hit his neck, the 3rd hit his head.
Do you know what his aim point was? If not how can you claim anything about accurracy?
The Frontline show ran a real time, real scale cgi from serveral angles including from the shooters scope.
Yowser is right
If I wanted to prove a conspiracy, I'd forget about proving there was more then one shooter and focus on who Oswald was "working for". Plenty of room for speculation there and the facts won't get in the way as easily.
Even so there's no evidence he was "working" for anyone. He had an opportunity and motive. He did it.
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ok... he didn't make 3 head shots and it wasn't at 200 yards and he had 8 seconds to do it in and he did it from a bench rest with a 4 X scope... the car was not moving across him it was moving away slowly and at a predictable speed and not moving up and down.
get over it LDF... the shots were easily possible.
I wanna hear about his 38 agian tho... that was kinda amussing.
So these conspirators are so smart and cool that no one has been able to catch em all these years yet they leave pristene bullets lying around.... shoot through a windshield.... follow oswald around and then shoot a cop with the wron calibre gun and then go on an undetected murder spree for 20 years to shut everyone up.
the latter is also possible but....
lazs
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I guess what we have is that from a benchrest at a target moving away at say... and average of 100 yards... he fired three shots in 8 seconds and had a group that was about 10" or larger (don't know how far he missed the first shot by)
lazs
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Mr. MYERS : A lot of the witnesses first said that he was coming west and then he was seen walking east as Tippit pulled to the curb. I think what may have happened is Oswald truly was walking west, saw the police car approaching, did a quick about-face, now is walking east. This would be something that Tippit would spot and possibly cause enough suspicion to pull over.
The killer gets to about this position on the sidewalk and Tippit's patrol car pulls to the curb and either calls him over to the curb or the man comes over by himself and leans through the window and talks to Tippit through the vent window for 10 or 20 seconds -- very short. And Tippit gets out of the patrol car and as he does, the man steps over to the front of the hood here, and as Tippit gets opposite him, he pulls a gun from under the jacket, fires three shots across the hood, knocking Tippit to the pavement. Then the man starts to leave, hesitates at the back of the car, walks around behind the car, comes up to the front of the car, stands over to Tippit and shoots him in the head.
Mr., TATUM : He then looked around, surveyed the situation and started a slow run toward my direction. I put my car in gear and drove forward and watched him through the rearview mirror. I saw him very clearly and realized that there was one thing that made him stand out and that was his mouth that curled up. I couldn't mistake that.
INTERVIEWER : Kind of a -- kind of a smile?
Mr. TATUM : Yes. Uh-huh. Kind of a smile. And I was within 10, 15 feet of that individual and it was Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. MYERS : After the shooting, police found shells at the scene. They went on the radio and said they were .38 automatics. Later Oswald's arrested with a revolver that fires .38 specials, a shell that's clearly about a quarter inch longer. Besides, they're clearly stamped on the bottom. One says, ".38 special," one says, ".38 automatic."
NARRATOR : Automatic shells would mean Oswald was not there and that the evidence could have been planted.
INTERVIEWER : Did you actually pick up the shells yourself?
Mr. HILL : Yeah, I got a mark in them. I put a mark in them.
INTERVIEWER : But you still mistook the kind of shell it was?
Mr. HILL : Yes, I did. In all the excitement that was going on then, you just looked to see if it was a .38. And if he'd been using an automatic, they could have been ejected. Nobody at this point had told the first officer to arrive that Oswald had stopped, deliberately kicked out shells from a .38 revolver before he left that scene.
NARRATOR : Later, the FBI crime lab found that Tippit was killed by bullets fired from a gun with a bored-out barrel, a barrel just like Oswald's .38. Ballistics tests on bored-out guns can never be completely conclusive. However, marks on the cartridges allegedly recovered at the scene did match the hammer on Oswald's .38 revolver.