Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: miko2d on November 21, 2003, 06:24:38 PM
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...paying attention to what they say between the lines.
Or rather between prepared spiels of government propaganda. I usually listen to them a few hours a day during commute untill their ignorance, stupidity and arrogance make me sick enough to switch to NPR for a few minutes.
But only a few. Then I usually switch back from smart and honest communists back to dumb and patriotic communists.
Laura Ingram is one of the more tolerable personages, she pretends to be smart and polite. Michael Savage is fun too. He pretends to be a "straight shooter". There are few more.
It is curious to hear how they claim that the economy is booming thanks to holy Bush and everything is going to be great and there would be no inflation and despite the evil democratic naysayers the prosperity is assured.
Then they switch to a commercial where they say how they love the financial company they use to invest in gold and how we should all invest in gold and how we would preserve our savings and even reap substantial profits - because the economy will go downhill and the dollar will collapse, and how we should sell the Bush's government short in anticipation. Why would anyone buy non-interest paying investment gold otherwise instead of, say, US Treasury Bonds?
So tell me. Are they so stupid they do not realise what they are saying?
Or are they so despise their audience and think us such idiots that they believe we would not understand what they are saying?
Or do they just care nothing about what they read aloud as long as they are being paid?
miko
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Pick your poison and stick with it. In other words, its ALL propoganda :aok
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You expect consistency from potatos?
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Maybe you are just too stupid to understand the big words Miko.
Maybe in your little world, everyone is evil. Being from the Ukraine, I guess we can understand.
What I can't understand is this why don't go back home if it is so evil here????
I promise, we won't miss you.
dago
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Originally posted by miko2d
...paying attention to what they say between the lines.
Or rather between prepared spiels of government propaganda. I usually listen to them a few hours a day during commute untill their ignorance, stupidity and arrogance make me sick enough to switch to NPR for a few minutes.
But only a few. Then I usually switch back from smart and honest communists back to dumb and patriotic communists.
Laura Ingram is one of the more tolerable personages, she pretends to be smart and polite. Michael Savage is fun too. He pretends to be a "straight shooter". There are few more.
It is curious to hear how they claim that the economy is booming thanks to holy Bush and everything is going to be great and there would be no inflation and despite the evil democratic naysayers the prosperity is assured.
Then they switch to a commercial where they say how they love the financial company they use to invest in gold and how we should all invest in gold and how we would preserve our savings and even reap substantial profits - because the economy will go downhill and the dollar will collapse, and how we should sell the Bush's government short in anticipation. Why would anyone buy non-interest paying investment gold otherwise instead of, say, US Treasury Bonds?
So tell me. Are they so stupid they do not realise what they are saying?
Or are they so despise their audience and think us such idiots that they believe we would not understand what they are saying?
Or do they just care nothing about what they read aloud as long as they are being paid?
miko
Everyone is a phoney except you.
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Yeager: Pick your poison and stick with it. In other words, its ALL propoganda :aok
Not all. The stuff about buying gold made perfect sense. Last spring - when I started writing about the impending dollar weakness - the gold was $340. Now it's $397. They surely made money selling Bush short - if they truly invested with those companies, of course.
Sandman_SBM: You expect consistency from potatos?
What did the potatos ever do to you to slander them by such comparisons? I would implore you not badmouth thouse hard-working professionals that work hard to serve customers free-market competition.
Use some comparison from animal kingdom if you must - weasels, bottom-feeders, etc.
Dago: Maybe you are just too stupid to understand the big words Miko.
Maybe. Explain in small words why would an optimistic patriot invest in idle gold coins (4.5% commission charge) instead of interest-bearing securities of the US government?
Dago: What I can't understand is this why don't go back home if it is so evil here?
Not as much evil as stupid. Just imagine I am making comments on your favorite windbags from Ukraine. Anyone, why so agitated? Did I catch on your scam as well? Were you selling treasuries and buying gold on my advice while claiming the contrary?
miko
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Dago,
Your hate is showing again.
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Originally posted by miko2d
Sandman_SBM: You expect consistency from potatos?
What did the potatos ever do to you to slander them by such comparisons? I would implore you not badmouth thouse hard-working professionals that work hard to serve customers free-market competition.
Use some comparison from animal kingdom if you must - weasels, bottom-feeders, etc.
Hehe... no slander intended... potatos will say and do whatever you like just as long as you pay them... I think the analogy fits. :)
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He switched to NPR (state sponsored radio) to escape government propaganda? LOL
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
He switched to NPR (state sponsored radio) to escape government propaganda? LOL
NPR receives 15% of their operating budget from the government. The rest is from private contributions.
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Just imagine I am making comments on your favorite windbags from Ukraine.
Wouldn't that be the cause of your ending up in some gulag?
Why don't you ponder that in this country, you are at least free to make your comments without fear, other than guys like me calling you a jerk? Can't do that in some countries.
Dago,
Your hate is showing again.
Gee, I hope so, I wasn't going for subtle.
dago
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Originally posted by miko2d
[B
Laura Ingram is one of the more tolerable personages, she pretends to be smart and polite. Michael Savage is fun too. He pretends to be a "straight shooter". There are few more.
[/B]
FYI
Laura has a law degree from Yale and has clerked for the supreme court.
Savage has a PhD in economics
[/i]
[B
Then they switch to a commercial where they say how they love the financial company they use to invest in gold and how we should all invest in gold and how we would preserve our savings and even reap substantial profits - because the economy will go downhill and the dollar will collapse, and how we should sell the Bush's government short in anticipation. Why would anyone buy non-interest paying investment gold otherwise instead of, say, US Treasury Bonds?
miko [/B][/QUOTE]
commercials are not up to the host. They are bought time, through the sales department.:rolleyes:
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Judging by your posts over the last year I don't thing an un-negative opinion on any subject including or not limited to carrier Pigeons mating rituals is worthy of much thought. its probably not that your a bad guy miko, just that your just so fricken negative about everything, thats the problem.... Lighten up! Smell the roses! Get a hobby other than creative miserablism...
ICON
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Miko needs to change his bbs handle to chicken little. The sky is always falling around him. Nothing seems to meet with his approval except of course, himself.
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Sandman_SBM: Hehe... no slander intended... potatos will say and do whatever you like just as long as you pay them... I think the analogy fits. :)
Bad analogy, bad! The potatos would pretend for you just like a movie actor or a theater performer would pretend for you. It's done for your enjoyment and with your full undrstanding that what you will hear and see is not real.
What you can "inconsistency" in a potato is actualy an advantage - it's called "versatility".
That is very different than a person lying to you when you expect to hear the truth.
He switched to NPR (state sponsored radio) to escape government propaganda? LOL
No, no. Not to escape the propaganda, which must be clear from my post. There is no escape from propaganda.
Just to get a few minutes rest from stupidity. The NPR stuff are not as deafeningly stupid, if equally flawed in content.
Also, I need to know the leftist lies to expose them, as well as pseudo-conservatives' lies. Otherwise I may be accused of bias.
Dago: Why don't you ponder that in this country, you are at least free to make your comments without fear...
But I am sure that people like you will turn it into a fully socialist state in no time. You are more than half done.
1K0N: probably not that your a bad guy miko, just that your just so fricken negative about everything...
There are plenty of cheerleaders without me.
Besides, whenever someone takes a swing at the free-market liberty-oriented aspects of this country, I am always there to show him the error of his ways and attest to its (fading) greatnmess.
I am only denouncing anti-capitalist, anti-free market, big government sentiments that are contrary to the Founding Fathers' letter and spirit.
Maverick: Miko needs to change his bbs handle to chicken little. The sky is always falling around him.
Who, me? I was not the one crying we are all doomed unless we invade Iraq, etc. I have enough trust in free market and liberty to know we can survive it without compromising our rights of economy.
I know that the totalitarian states with a command-style economies - like those of our enemies - would crumble through internal contradictions. I can explain the mechanism and scenarios.
Now, if we inist on becoming a command-style totalitarian country, what's wrong with me applying the same knowlege and getting the predictable results?
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Sandman_SBM: He switched to NPR (state sponsored radio) to escape government propaganda? LOL
No, no. Not to escape the propaganda, which must be clear from my post. There is no escape from propaganda.
Just to get a few minutes rest from stupidity. The NPR stuff are not as deafeningly stupid, if equally flawed in content.
Also, I need to know the leftist lies to expose them, as well as pseudo-conservatives' lies. Otherwise I may be accused of bias.
[/B]
That was Funked's quote, not mine... ;)
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Originally posted by miko2d
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Then they switch to a commercial
miko
Obviously, miko missed the key phrase in his own post.
nice troll though. I give it a 3. You've done much better.
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Martlet: Obviously, miko missed the key phrase in his own post.
nice troll though. I give it a 3. You've done much better.
Since I've started this thread and invited everyone, I did read this message of yours.
So, what did I miss?
When the same person that spoke of his confidence in the government's economic policies tells me how he would never advertise a product unless he/she used it personally and found it of great value - and are buying gold and selling the USA short, how am I supposed to accept that?
It is no accident that the company hires Michale Savage or Laure Ingram or Sean Hannity to read this particular commercial. They are buying the trust of the audience, not just a squeaky voice.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
Martlet: Obviously, miko missed the key phrase in his own post.
nice troll though. I give it a 3. You've done much better.
Since I've started this thread and invited everyone, I did read this message of yours.
So, what did I miss?
When the same person that spoke of his confidence in the government's economic policies tells me how he would never advertise a product unless he/she used it personally and found it of great value - and are buying gold and selling the USA short, how am I supposed to accept that?
It is no accident that the company hires Michale Savage or Laure Ingram or Sean Hannity to read this particular commercial. They are buying the trust of the audience, not just a squeaky voice.
miko
Several things I scoff at. Every time I address a comment to you, you answer it while explaining "this one time" you're reading it, but remember, I'm on ignore". Every time I point out a flaw in your logic, you add something to your original statement to cover your butt.
Like i said, if you can't tell the difference between an advertisement and an OpEd, then I'm not the least bit surprised you've become the poster boy for liberal propaganda.
Again, this isn't your best troll. You've done better,.
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Miko,
Did you ever wonder if maybe, everyone else disagrees with you, maybe it's not everyone else who is wrong?
Or, if you think everyone is jerk, and everyone else just thinks you are a jerk, maybe its not everyone else who is a jerk?
All you can do is point out everything you think is wrong with our country/government, etc. I ask you in all seriousness, why don't you leave?
you will turn it into a fully socialist state in no time
While we have never had a shortage of fools saying just this kind of stuff, funny thing is that isn't happened yet. Hmmmm
Back in the 60s, more of that nonsense was spouted out then even now by fools like you. Interesting fact is that our rights are still intact, minorities have more protections and opportunities, and our society has made great strides.
Miko, please tell us a little about yourself, your college degrees (must be extensive to call a Yale grad stupid), tell us what you have accomplished in life, tell us of your creations, the businesses you have started, the lifes you have improved. Tell us of the battles you have fought to protect freedoms, to help those less fortunate, to battle evil or injustice.
I have to believe you are a man of great accomplishments and deeds to place yourself in judgement of so many and institutions.
Otherwise, you are a just a loudmouthed worthless jerk.
dago
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milko's quote
""prepared spiels of government propaganda""
i think you spent way to much time in the USSR.
i'm really sorry your workers paradise colasped and you are now forced to live in the represive USA.
i hear Canada is nice this time of year(hint)
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That's why I listen to Russ Martin. No politics...just good ol wholesome all-american pornstars.
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ya know miko callin blatand fearmongering profiteers ( am radio )
communists seems like a odd use of the word. dumb and patriotic ill give ya.
and really npr dosent espouse communism ( wich as a political theory has a definition ) as much as socialism ( truly related but not the same thing ).
are you using it ( the word communist ) in another way ?
ever notice people with extremly high i.q.s are almost always capitolists. :) but people with ultra high i.q.s are almost never capitolists. forest for the trees thing.
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So tell me. Are they so stupid they do not realise what they are saying?
Or are they so despise their audience and think us such idiots that they believe we would not understand what they are saying?
Or do they just care nothing about what they read aloud as long as they are being paid?
miko
Caveat emptor!
I haven't heard the radio commercials you refer to, but there is a common assumption made by most people in this culture that TV, radio and newspaper ads, commercials, paid political announcements and the like are to be taken with a grain of salt.
The commercials are part of our free market economy - and we are free to choose...
Your alleged expectations of truth in advertising, or even consistency with the personal philosophy of the paid spoksmen, is unrealistic.
Either that, or you just enjoy poking holes in these obvious ironies of culture in a free country... it might be fun to call up the Savage show and back him into a corner with your observations...
Gunthr
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NM
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Martlet: Every time I address a comment to you, you answer it while explaining "this one time" you're reading it, but remember, I'm on ignore".
If by "every time" you mean this first and only time since I .ignored you, you are certainly correct. If you mean that I have ever read your posts after putting you on ignore, let alone reply to them, you are lying.
You may well have addressed comments to me which I would not have seen and I often add to my original statements. So what?
Like i said, if you can't tell the difference between an advertisement and an OpEd, then I'm not the least bit surprised you've become the poster boy for liberal propaganda.
When the same person is claiming directly opposite things in an OpEd and advertisement, that person is a liar. I do not care if he was paid to lie. In their speeches those people often insist that they are honest and cannot be bought. They also say they would not advertise if they did not truky believe in a product.
Dago: Miko, Did you ever wonder if maybe, everyone else disagrees with you
Hardly "everyone".
Or, if you think everyone is jerk
I don't. I don't even think everyone is ignorant. When I call someone names, it's personal. I do not believe I've ever said "you all are..." about anything.
Nayway, just because I caught a couple of scumbags on obvious lie that millions can hear, how come you treat it as if I personally offended you?
While we have never had a shortage of fools saying just this kind of stuff, funny thing is that isn't happened yet.
People were saying for a long time that socialism in USSR was going to crumble. They even explained why and how. They were not all fools. In fact, the smarter they were, the earlier they predicted the downfall.
"It" is happening and has been for a long time. The size of government, the relative share of government expenses in GDP, the number of laws and regulations, their intrusiveness, centralisation, etc. - all those attributes of socialism are growing.
Miko, please tell us a little about yourself...
While posting here, I've told pretty much all you are asking already. I have quite an impressive credentals, education and experience. Relatively recently I would have said I was very accomplished and successfull in life.
What does it matter? I always try to explain how I came to my opinions, not just state them. I am always ready to elaborate any details. So you do not have to rely on my creditials to evaluate my statements.
In this particilar case, one hardly needs much education to understand that a radio show host said contradictory things.
If credentials would make you take the stuff said on this board seriously, then you are a fool. This board is not a source of education. You do not get education from a chat but from books by people most accomplished in the subject. At best, this board should arouse an interest in particular area of the study by exposing you to the views of different people.
I have to believe you are a man of great accomplishments and deeds to place yourself in judgement of so many and institutions.
If you believe what you just said, you'll believe anything. So I am channeling the spirit of the great president professor Woodrow Wilson. Just keep it our little secret.
john9001: i'm really sorry your workers paradise colasped and you are now forced to live in the represive USA.
So you think my dislike for socialism and insessant critique of it means that I love socialism and regret the downfall of Soviet Union. You are an idiot.
lord dolf vader: communists seems like a odd use of the word. dumb and patriotic ill give ya.
One can be dumb and patriotic while adhering to any political persuasion. Only those who call for more governmental control over economy, production, distribution, private property and other aspects of human life while claiming to be defending the interests of the people and appealing to people for support - those are communists.
ever notice people with extremly high i.q.s are almost always capitolists. but people with ultra high i.q.s are almost never capitolists. forest for the trees thing.
You are rising a facinating issue. I have just recenty read a paper that mentioned the same thing. Like bus drivers have more accident with low IQ but also with high IQ - being too bored and distracted, same seems to influence the politicians.
The hypothesis is that people who are too smart are often incapable of going through years of heavy, persistent, often boring work required to start a successfull business. So they go to academia (which is influenced by leftists). They have theoretical knowlege but have no idea how the world actually works in order to compare the theory with practice and decide which theory makes sense.
Gunthr: Either that, or you just enjoy poking holes in these obvious ironies of culture in a free country...
If we should not believe what they say for money in the commercials, why should we believe what they say for money in the editorial? That is of course, a rhetorical question.
So yes, it was an irony of catching them liars saying opposite things withing the same minute.
it might be fun to call up the Savage show and back him into a corner with your observations.
I will certainly try and if I get through, I will report on the results.
miko
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Originally posted by miko2d
When the same person is claiming directly opposite things in an OpEd and advertisement, that person is a liar. I do not care if he was paid to lie. In their speeches those people often insist that they are honest and cannot be bought. They also say they would not advertise if they did not truky believe in a product.
[/B]
You mean to imply that diet Dr. Pepper does not taste more like regular Dr. Pepper?:eek:
Originally posted by miko2d
The hypothesis is that people who are too smart are often incapable of going through years of heavy, persistent, often boring work required to start a successfull business. So they go to academia (which is influenced by leftists). They have theoretical knowlege but have no idea how the world actually works in order to compare the theory with practice and decide which theory makes sense. [/B]
The hypothesis is wrong, the most intellegent people in the world think just like me.:)
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thanks for the responses
so is there such a thing as a socialist at all in your way of thinking?
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I think it's fantastic that we have miko here. He know everything as he is the only perfect intelligent person on earth able to distinguish between all the lies and propaganda out there, especially with economics. In fact he is the world authority on the subject. Thank you Miko, I really appreciate you spending time with us mere peons. i mean with your busy schedule fighting aginst all the millions of truly ignorant economists out there ruining the world!
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Or are they so despise their audience and think us such idiots that they believe we would not understand what they are saying?
I don't think conservitive radio despises thier audiance.
I think they truly love the gullible audience, who can swallow in one sitting the ideas that "Bush will be good for the economy" and "smart money is on betting against it"
I don't agree with most of your thoughts on the economy (the idea that unrgulated bussiness will do anything other than consentrate the wealth in a few and starve the rest is laughable). but I have to agree with you on this.
anyone who can read, can check the paper and see that the price of gold goes up as the economy goes down.
anyone who tells you that "smart money is in gold", & "the economy is getting better" on the same day is telling you at least one lie
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LOL Grun, well said.
Capt Apathy.
You say the price of gold goes up as the economy goes down. Assuming for sake of argument that is absolutely correct. What is the value of gold expressed in? Isn't it expressed in denominations of governmental paper fiat? In other words that so precious substance, gold, is worth a significant amount of paper printed by a government. Now how is this better than that same parer fiat? How many of your bills have you paid by exchanging gold to the person / corporation you are in debt to?
Finally if gold goes down as the economy increases what has been the trend over the last 200 years of the economy in the U.S.? Seems to me it has been a fairly steady rise.
I fail to see why folks are so wrapped up in the yellow metal claiming it has value when the entire concept of economic value is an artificial construct and is only stable within a stable government. Gold has so little intrinsic value that if there were as much gold in the world as say lead, it would be penneys on the pound in value.
If having this gold fetish makes you happy, so be it, enjoy.
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Isn't it expressed in denominations of governmental paper fiat? In other words that so precious substance, gold, is worth a significant amount of paper printed by a government. Now how is this better than that same parer fiat?
you're right, just finish thinking it through.
if the economy goes to crap our dollar becomes worth less, when the economy is strong the dollar becomes worth more.
so if you buy gold then the ecomnomy falls the dollar is worth less and it takes more dollars to buy an ounce of gold.
when the economy is good it takes less dollars to buy an ounce of gold.
so if you buy when the economy is good (or at least better than it will be tomorow), and sell before it comes back up you get more (though of less value) dollars for your gold.
so in reality you didn't make anything, however your dollars didn't shrink like everyone elses when the value dropped (which is also a good thing)
btw- the link between gold and the ecconomy is not exact (there are other factors on the value of gold than just the ecconomy) it is real and easy to see, just check the price of gold with the dow for a year or so and it will prove the point.
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By saying, if the economy goes to crap, are you saying the end of the economy such as a total collapse? If so then gold will only have value to others that think it's a valuable thing. Other more pragmatic people will realise it's not good for anything other than decoration.
If you meant only an economic downturn, you're only speculating and that can be done in stocks and other commodities. It still comes down to something whos value is expressed in paper fiat. I think there are better investments given that I don't forsee a total economic collapse of the globe.
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Miko, the great difference between you and your opponents is that you, like most of intelligent Soviet people, are somehow immune to propaganda. At least you can tell when they lie. Or, to be more precise - to understand when they don't lie, because it's really hard to find any truth in government news.
Just curious, do you follow modern Russian media? Now I mostly listen to the radio,and can't watch TV because my Mother came to visit me. So I'll not be able to laugh at our "election campaign" :( ;)
[ I have seen only one TV "commercial" from communists. It's incredible. A guy dressed like a black American dances and sings:
"It's our choice, it's our rap!
We are voting for CPRF!" :D
CPRF = Communist Party of Russian Federation]
Government-controlled TV makes me sick. So does the "independant" media. I am simply tired of all this "democratic" crap. They all lie and want to exploit us. Parasites.
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boroda you are SO full of it!!!!!! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Please, please tell me you really don't believe what you post. :eek: :eek:
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Originally posted by Maverick
boroda you are SO full of it!!!!!! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Please, please tell me you really don't believe what you post. :eek: :eek:
You know what's scary?
I think he does.
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Originally posted by Martlet
You know what's scary?
I think he does.
The sign of true propaganda and brainwashing.. Its funny because he is often the one to show us articles from pravda as truthful unbiased unpropagandic sources. Really got to to give a big to soviet era brainwashing, even has its hold tight on a mans brain more than a decade later!
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He must believe some propoganda.Miko is the one who believes there should be no police. That you should be able to hire your own police. Organized crime would love this guy, they could then put the police on the books legally. Ukraine must be an interesting place.
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I find it very amusing that miko....an ex soviet knows more about American political history and economics than most Americans. Certainly most who post here.
Go miko...you are the perfect american!
Ravs ;)
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Originally posted by Sixpence
He must believe some propoganda.Miko is the one who believes there should be no police. That you should be able to hire your own police. Organized crime would love this guy, they could then put the police on the books legally. Ukraine must be an interesting place.
Yes I loved his diatribes about why a public police force was economically inoptimal solution. I bet its wonderful to live your life in an econ textboox. Everything must be so nice and clear and simple and unambigous - ceteris paribus of course....
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Originally posted by ravells
I find it very amusing that miko....an ex soviet knows more about American political history and economics than most Americans. Certainly most who post here.
Go miko...you are the perfect american!
Ravs ;)
Actually, no, he's just used his years of experience with the Soviet propaganda machine to convince the weak minded that black is white. I see which side you fall on.
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Well Martet,
when you have an intelligent response to his propositions then perhaps I might fall on your side!
Ravs
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Originally posted by ravells
Well Martet,
when you have an intelligent response to his propositions then perhaps I might fall on your side!
Ravs
See, that's the beauty of propaganda. It doesn't have to be inelligent, it just has to be what the person wants to believe. You'd like to believe the US is a horrible place with incredibly stupid and abusive citizens. Therefore, I'd never succeed in making you believe the truth. miko plays right into your dreams.
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Lol! Absolutely not! you will have seen on other threads that Miko and I disagree about lots of things.
You'd like to believe the US is a horrible place with incredibly stupid and abusive citizens
Wrong again! The vast majority of people I have met in the US have been extremely generous, polite and in the same intelligence bell curve as anyone else I've met, although it has to be said that they tended to take less of an interest in political events overseas. I'm sure that has changed significantly after 9/11.
Ravs
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Originally posted by miko2d
Martlet: Obviously, miko missed the key phrase in his own post.
nice troll though. I give it a 3. You've done much better.
Since I've started this thread and invited everyone, I did read this message of yours.
So, what did I miss?
When the same person that spoke of his confidence in the government's economic policies tells me how he would never advertise a product unless he/she used it personally and found it of great value - and are buying gold and selling the USA short, how am I supposed to accept that?
It is no accident that the company hires Michale Savage or Laure Ingram or Sean Hannity to read this particular commercial. They are buying the trust of the audience, not just a squeaky voice.
miko
You're not too bright....you speak as if millions of Americans are buying into gold and selling out of other investments....that is not the case....the ad you heard is not about our economy, but rather about the pursuit of the almighty dollar....their brokering gold.
I suppose if I were from Russia and got to the USA, I would be excited to be here and say whatever I wanted as often as possible just to exercise that new found freedom...carry on Miko and enjoy your free speech...nothing in our constitution demands that that same free speech is required to be coherent.
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Rude wrote:
You're not too bright....you speak as if millions of Americans are buying into gold and selling out of other investments....that is not the case....the ad you heard is not about our economy, but rather about the pursuit of the almighty dollar....their brokering gold.
Sorry dude, I dont read his post like this. He is stating how some radio host say one thing but their sponsers say another. Thats all.
Miko's post, if nothing else, are another look into the life we have here in america. There are so many.
What bothers me are all the Americans here who would rather call him a communist, tell him to go back home, argue his post out of context, or disspell his writing just because they are american and obviously know better. America, if nothing else, is known world-wide for it's history book history. It is just in america, we only have one history book written.
Funny to me how all the not-so-liberal posters here twist almost everthing he says. It boils down to, Soviet propaganda machine, propaganda and brainwashing, change his bbs handle to chicken little, and the likes.
Marlet even makes a post in the hope of downing Miko that was totally out of context to miko's first post. One could only hope Marlet realizes this.
Just seems to me, myself included, that we could all read with a more open mind. You know, argue the legitament points actually made.
k
AoM
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I'd like to know, Miko, what it is you do that allows you so much time to put such effort and thought into your posts.
Just curious.
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Originally posted by Martlet
See, that's the beauty of propaganda. It doesn't have to be inelligent, it just has to be what the person wants to believe. You'd like to believe the US is a horrible place with incredibly stupid and abusive citizens. Therefore, I'd never succeed in making you believe the truth. miko plays right into your dreams.
Well, I personally know that US isn't a "horrible place with incredibly stupid and abusive citizens".
The problem is that there is no black and white. It isn't a "country of yellow devil" and a society of exploitation as we have been told by our clumsy Soviet propaganda, neither it is a "paradise on Earth" like we were told since late 80s.
I am not satisfied with our own Russian government, and I see no force now that can take the country and do something rational to solve existing problems.
I can hardly understand how an intelligent person can be so absolutely satisfied with his government, and be so extremely confident in the wisdom and good intentions of the rulers as you are. In fact it's what Soviet system tried to achieve. Fortunately - it didn't succeed. And the best indicator to this is that Miko still has his critical attitude to current affairs. The Soviet environment was developing very special attitudes to official propaganda. For example, relatively happy and prospering Yugoslavia didn't have such enormous pressure on individuality, and we see a good example here - Grunherz, who in fact is more "American" then "Americans" born there.
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Originally posted by Boroda
I can hardly understand how an intelligent person can be so absolutely satisfied with his government, and be so extremely confident in the wisdom and good intentions of the rulers as you are. In fact it's what Soviet system tried to achieve. Fortunately - it didn't succeed. And the best indicator to this is that Miko still has his critical attitude to current affairs. The Soviet environment was developing very special attitudes to official propaganda. For example, relatively happy and prospering Yugoslavia didn't have such enormous pressure on individuality, and we see a good example here - Grunherz, who in fact is more "American" then "Americans" born there.
I feel there is a big difference between the "government" and the "politicians". The government is a body, an idea, a system. As a whole, I'm satisfied with it. I think it's the best in the world. It's the politicians that you have to watch out for. They steer the government. I don't know anyone that is completely satisfied with politicians.
The problem is the people that are blinded by hatred. You find them in both parties. They are the people that hate the "other side" so bad they lobby against every single idea that comes out of that camp. It doesn't matter how good it may be. If they thought of it, it has to be bad.
So it's fine to not be satisfied. It's healthy. In many ways it's necessary. The problem is the many people that concentrate on being UNsatisfied.
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I think Miko was badly burned by communism as were many millions in the USSR. A little socialism is not an evil thing if it's kept in check. Public roads, utilities, police, military, social security for the elderly, welfare for the destitute, all provided for the common good by joint contribution does not make us a communist or even socialist state. Letting corporations run wild with no responsibility to the common good would be truly foolish.
Keeping everything in balance is a tricky thing and does require constant effort and diligence.
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That is one of the most intelligent posts I have seen here in a while.
Ravs
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Originally posted by GScholz
Actually that's pretty socialistic. Add schools and healthcare and you've got a Social Democracy like my country.
I didn't leave those two out by accident. There are varying degrees of socialism. I guess it's rather arbitrary and relative to label a country socialistic.
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Originally posted by kappa
Rude wrote:
You're not too bright....you speak as if millions of Americans are buying into gold and selling out of other investments....that is not the case....the ad you heard is not about our economy, but rather about the pursuit of the almighty dollar....their brokering gold.
Sorry dude, I dont read his post like this. He is stating how some radio host say one thing but their sponsers say another. Thats all.
Miko's post, if nothing else, are another look into the life we have here in america. There are so many.
What bothers me are all the Americans here who would rather call him a communist, tell him to go back home, argue his post out of context, or disspell his writing just because they are american and obviously know better. America, if nothing else, is known world-wide for it's history book history. It is just in america, we only have one history book written.
Funny to me how all the not-so-liberal posters here twist almost everthing he says. It boils down to, Soviet propaganda machine, propaganda and brainwashing, change his bbs handle to chicken little, and the likes.
Marlet even makes a post in the hope of downing Miko that was totally out of context to miko's first post. One could only hope Marlet realizes this.
Just seems to me, myself included, that we could all read with a more open mind. You know, argue the legitament points actually made.
k
AoM
My mistake....I took all the additional remarks after his opening post as meaning something entirely different than pointing out an irony.
Of course, being a neo-con, I tend to do that kind of thing often....hard for me to warm up to anyone who doesn't think, sleep and eat as I do.
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Originally posted by ravells
That is one of the most intelligent posts I have seen here in a while.
Ravs
If you were referring to my post, thanks. I have my weak moments. ;)
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I was...
May you be weak more often :)
Ravs
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Originally posted by AKIron
I think Miko was badly burned by communism as were many millions in the USSR. A little socialism is not an evil thing if it's kept in check. Public roads, utilities, police, military, social security for the elderly, welfare for the destitute, all provided for the common good by joint contribution does not make us a communist or even socialist state. Letting corporations run wild with no responsibility to the common good would be truly foolish.
Keeping everything in balance is a tricky thing and does require constant effort and diligence.
Miko is right. Do you really think that you can sustain "just a little" socialism? You can't. It's just a matter of time when we'll turn good old USA into a communist sewer.
When was last time you saw the government giving up power, abolishing controls over the private sector or citizens?
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I think Miko was badly burned by communism as were many millions in the USSR. A little socialism is not an evil thing if it's kept in check. Public roads, utilities, police, military, social security for the elderly, welfare for the destitute, all provided for the common good by joint contribution does not make us a communist or even socialist state. Letting corporations run wild with no responsibility to the common good would be truly foolish.
Keeping everything in balance is a tricky thing and does require constant effort and diligence.
Although we have "a little socialism" I agree that the US is a pretty nice place to live. I can't agree with the rest of your statement for a variety of reasons: First of all, we don't know what our society would be like without some of those elements of socialism removed. We've never experienced what the US would be like without welfare, public utilities and social security. It might in fact be much nicer. Just for example, as messed up as our public school systems are, they seem an excellent candidate for privatization. As nice as our country is, fixing this particular government mess would undoubtedly make it better. We are like somebody who has had a minor illness their entire life. We may feel pretty good (by our standards), but we may also not know how it feels to be well. From what I've seen, the more socialistic a country is the less desirable it is as a place to live.
Also, since when are such things as the military, police and the courts socialistic? Advocating minimalist government doesn't mean advocating anarchy. Our founding fathers were very strong advocates of minimalist and decentralized government and they still saw the need for police, a military and a court system. And what exactly do you mean by letting corporations (or individuals for that matter) run wild? As long as an individual or corporation doesn't harm somebody else or their property I'm for letting them run as wild as they want.
Hooligan
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I certainly don't think we need more socialism than we already have and I want to see less. To say we need none and trust the benevolence of those ruling from the pinacle of corporate America is a vision out of science fiction, "Roller Ball" comes to mind.
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It's all a matter of degree and the word Socialism has many meanings. I'm using it to describe the collective sharing of resources redistributed as needed by the government. Why wouldn't this include public roads, utilities, police, military, schools, etc.... Not everyone pays the same amount or according to their use but rather according to their position (income) in society.
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The day this country entertains socialism, is the day I move back to Texas.:)
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Originally posted by Rude
The day this country entertains socialism, is the day I move back to Texas.:)
start packing ...