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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on November 22, 2003, 01:57:47 AM

Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on November 22, 2003, 01:57:47 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/22/sprj.irq.main/index.html
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Raubvogel on November 22, 2003, 02:02:16 AM
It landed safely, with no deaths. Davidpt40 will be disappointed.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: mora on November 22, 2003, 02:16:12 AM
It was a mere cargo plane... If there would have been pax on board it would be all over the news.:rolleyes:
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Creamo on November 22, 2003, 02:34:58 AM
That donkey looked pissed.

It would be hard to bring down a airliner with one of those too. Pry hard on an engine though.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: davidpt40 on November 22, 2003, 03:23:33 AM
What, no deaths?  I am disappointed.

I bet the aircraft was empty though.  I am not sure if one engine would be powerful enough to support a fully loaded and fueled cargo plane.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: mora on November 22, 2003, 04:03:58 AM
In order to be cetrtified, an aircraft has to be able to climb after takeoff at MTOW(maximum takeoff weight) if one of it's engines fail. Because of this twin engined planes often have better thrust to weight ratio than those with more engines.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Creamo on November 22, 2003, 04:33:14 AM
Exactly, and older cargo carriers pry have 4 engines.

Wouldn't the Bagdad airport have security and spotters for these incompetent terrorists that waste their missiles on commercial airliner engines?

A Apache Helo on full time alert takes off, looks for smoke trail and towels near a van, and ends their Jihad anti-American jet engine campaign.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Scatcat on November 22, 2003, 08:13:12 AM
I'm just wondering if DHL is hire'n? Sounds like a great route to fly.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Dinger on November 22, 2003, 03:18:33 PM
from a post on pprune:

Quote


Aircraft was an A300B4F from DHL, doing the regular second rotation from BAH to SAD. Aircraft was climbing out, passing 8000 ft and 6NM downrange, when it took a missile hit through the wing. Fire broke out and all hydraulics was lost. They made 3 cricles working to get the gear down, then made an overspeed landing back in SAD, resulting in an overrun. Most importantly, all crew members are ok albeit a bit shocked (who the f. wouldn't be?). Pictures of the aircraft on CNN as I write this.

To those who THINK they know anything, back off. The crew and aircraft are fully insured for the operation undertaken. DHL are of course re-evaluating their position with the entire Iraq operation.



all hydraulics sounds suspicious.
still, that CVR tape would be interesting to hear.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Holden McGroin on November 22, 2003, 03:25:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mora
In order to be cetrtified, an aircraft has to be able to climb after takeoff at MTOW(maximum takeoff weight) if one of it's engines fail. Because of this twin engined planes often have better thrust to weight ratio than those with more engines.


If it is a single engine a/c does it still need to climb out at MTOW with one engine out?:p

I have some dual time in a Piper Aztec, and with one engine out,   the other can safely take you to your crash site.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Pooh21 on November 22, 2003, 03:58:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Scatcat
I'm just wondering if DHL is hire'n? Sounds like a great route to fly.

only if they change the seat, glad they made it down ok.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: mora on November 22, 2003, 06:05:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
If it is a single engine a/c does it still need to climb out at MTOW with one engine out?:p

I have some dual time in a Piper Aztec, and with one engine out,   the other can safely take you to your crash site.


Ha! Ya got meh.... But really....that incident sounds pretty nasty. I doubt they had a COMPLETE hydraulic failure, but it sounds pretty bad nevertheless.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: lord dolf vader on November 22, 2003, 10:39:39 PM
wonder what missile they are usin.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Chairboy on November 22, 2003, 11:22:28 PM
RTFA.  It was an SA-7.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: john9001 on November 23, 2003, 01:00:08 AM
i saw the pic on TV , the tip of the wing was on fire, did it really hit the engine?
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: mora on November 23, 2003, 03:53:21 AM
(http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/11/22/sprj.irq.main/story.plane.2.jpg)
Looks like it went through the wing and the engines were left intact.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Creamo on November 23, 2003, 04:25:56 AM
I at least had assumed it hit an engine, don't know much about missiles, but thought they were heat seeking? That far down range at that alt that wasn't a terrorist with a shoulder mounted arm was it? 8K is WAY up there.

Flap and trailing edge from the left engine to the tip looks all fluffied up though. Shrapnel could start a fire that far out, but who knows.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: davidpt40 on November 23, 2003, 09:30:05 AM
Question:  Will a heat seaking missle explode if it hits a hot-air baloon, or just go through it?
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: mora on November 23, 2003, 10:05:29 AM
I believe the never models are detoned by a proximity fuse. Not sure if it would home into a balloon, but it would propably home to it's burner.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: lord dolf vader on November 23, 2003, 10:13:39 AM
i believe most anti air missiles have a proximity fuse that blows a shaped ( cone ) of flack, ball bearings ect into the target.



but the sa7 is one cheap missile, possibly just a contact detonation.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: mora on November 23, 2003, 10:17:26 AM
Yep, it seems to be contact detonated.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Boroda on November 23, 2003, 10:52:06 AM
American pilots will have to learn "Afghani approach" on landings. :( Since "the land of free" supplied Afghani "freedom fighters" with Stingers - Soviet planes had to perform aerobatic maneuvers landing in Bagram... Plus several choppers covered the airstrip throwing flares to protect every cargo plane landing or taking off...
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Animal on November 23, 2003, 02:57:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Since "the land of free" supplied Afghani "freedom fighters" with Stingers


Oh come on, you are still sore about that? It was done in good fun!
What about the time you sent elite Mig17 pilots against us, or supplied vietnamese with weapons?

jesus christ you russians cant take a joke.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: FUNKED1 on November 23, 2003, 03:09:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
Oh come on, you are still sore about that? It was done in good fun!
What about the time you sent elite Mig17 pilots against us, or supplied vietnamese with weapons?

jesus christ you russians cant take a joke.


LOL :)
Title: update
Post by: mora on November 25, 2003, 10:08:54 AM
Here's a few pics of the damage:
(http://www.fototime.com/{327EF0DB-467D-41AC-B444-C2762728F5F7}/picture.JPG)
http://www.airdisaster.com/user-uploads/dhl_eb1.jpg
http://www.airdisaster.com/user-uploads/dhl_eb2.jpg
http://www.airdisaster.com/user-uploads/dhl_eb3.jpg
http://www.airdisaster.com/user-uploads/dhl_eb4.jpg

Ragheads also filmed the attack!
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7973541%255E28102,00.html
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Torque on November 25, 2003, 10:19:32 AM
Wow that's pretty amazing that the airplane didn't blowup in flight.:aok
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Boroda on November 25, 2003, 02:00:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
jesus christ you russians cant take a joke.


LOL! :D
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Fishu on November 25, 2003, 02:41:21 PM
Mora,

Can't view the linked pics...
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Pongo on November 25, 2003, 03:24:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
Oh come on, you are still sore about that? It was done in good fun!
What about the time you sent elite Mig17 pilots against us, or supplied vietnamese with weapons?

jesus christ you russians cant take a joke.


lol
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Westy on November 25, 2003, 03:53:52 PM
"Can't view the linked pics..."

 Me neither.  They're gone.

 BTW Foxnews has a lot of the video of the missile shoot. Thier banner SUX and blocks a lot of the sreen. But I'm amazed at how casual and easy it is for them to do it and get away.  A nearby US helicopter never sees the group, thier large white car or the missile shot. And it's not like the guerrilla's are hiding at the edge of some thick jungle canopy where they can duck easily duck in and vanish into ala Vietnam, Laos or Cambodia.

 I thought the US had some good technogear?  Easily the kind that would see and track the shot and they could then use radio to home the helo's in to the area with?
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: type_char on November 25, 2003, 03:59:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mora
(http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/11/22/sprj.irq.main/story.plane.2.jpg)
Looks like it went through the wing and the engines were left intact.


Im sure many know but the suface to air missiles dont have to go through the target. They can just kill by proximity. From looking at other pictures of the DHL plane, didnt look like alot of damage occured. Wonder of the smaller missiles carry much less non direct hit killing potential as the larger SAMs. Good flying by the DHL crew.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Animal on November 25, 2003, 09:54:02 PM
Those missiles are made to shoot down a small fighter plane, or helicopter.

A bomber sized big plane like that cant be easily brought down by one. In fact, I'm impressed by how much damage the missile made..
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: Pfunk on November 26, 2003, 02:13:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
Mora,

Can't view the linked pics...


Nope they are there........drag and drop the highlighted text into your address bar.
Title: Airliner type hit by MANPAD in Iraq...
Post by: mora on November 26, 2003, 05:05:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by type_char
Im sure many know but the suface to air missiles dont have to go through the target. They can just kill by proximity. From looking at other pictures of the DHL plane, didnt look like alot of damage occured. Wonder of the smaller missiles carry much less non direct hit killing potential as the larger SAMs. Good flying by the DHL crew.


I this case the missile was identified from the film as  SA-14 Gremlin (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-14.htm)whis uses a contact fuse. Definately good flying from the crew. They made an overspeed flaples landing and possibly didn't have any brakes, and subsequently they had an overrun.

If anyone finds any footage,  please bark. That fox footage didn't really show the plane after it was hit.