Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on November 24, 2003, 11:49:46 AM
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Gee, really? :rolleyes:
Study: Faster cars, higher speeds lead to more deaths
CNN
WASHINGTON -- More deaths are occurring on the nation's highways because car manufacturers are putting more horsepower under the hood of cars and drivers are using the muscle to go faster than ever, according to a new study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.
A second study, by researchers from New Zealand, also showed that faster cars and higher speeds were adding to deaths on the nation's highways.
"Whenever vehicle speeds increase, death rates also increase," said Institute chief scientist Allan Williams. "And the reverse is true. In 1974 when the national maximum speed limit lowered the limits across the country to 55 mph, fatality rates dropped significantly."
To test the speeds of drivers, the Institute studied the driving habits in six states: Colorado, California, Georgia, Massachusetts, Maryland and New Mexico, as well as five major cities from 1996-1999.
In Colorado almost a quarter of drivers were traveling 80 mph or faster. Drivers in Atlanta posted the fastest speeds of the major cities. Despite a 55 mph limit on urban intestates, 78 percent of the drivers typically hit speeds of 70 mph and almost 20 percent are driving faster than 80, the study found.
"Drivers tend to choose speeds they perceive as unlikely to result in a ticket," says Insurance Institute senior transportation engineer Richard Retting. "Presumably, difference in perception of the amount of enforcement among these areas were major factors in the higher or lower travel speeds."
Selling speed
A study at the Land Transport Safety Authority of New Zealand did a broader study of speeds in the United States and also found higher speeds resulted in more deaths.
The New Zealand researchers studied death rates on rural intestates where the speed limits had been increased from 55 mph to 75 mph. Of those, the study finds a 38 percent increase, or about 780 more deaths.
The states included in the study that raised their speed limits to 75 mph were all in the west. For the states increasing speeds to 70 mph, the percentage of deaths rose by 35 percent, or more than 1,100 deaths, according to the study.
Another factor pushing speeds to the limit is what's marketed on television. In studying commercials, the Institute found performance and speed is most often marketed in television commercials.
In reviewing television ads from July of this year, performance was the feature highlighted most often in all car classes. Safety was only mentioned in two percent of ads, according to the Institute's review.
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is an independent agency funded by insurance companies to conduct roadway research and test vehicles for safety.
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i bet that study cost them a couple million dollars to
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Well I can attest to the fact that drivers in Atlanta are insane. Dont even bother getting in the two far left lanes if you dont wanna go over 65mph, 70-90 is a common speed in these lanes if traffic is "light". Traffic in Atlanta has surpased L.A. as the worst in the nation.
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Originally posted by Pfunk
Well I can attest to the fact that drivers in Atlanta are insane. Dont even bother getting in the two far left lanes if you dont wanna go over 65mph, 70-90 is a common speed in these lanes if traffic is "light". Traffic in Atlanta has surpased L.A. as the worst in the nation.
70-90 mph sounds like good traffic, not bad traffic.
Many studies show that increased speed limits have no effect on accident rates, or even lower the rates.
http://www.publicpurpose.com/ic-speed.htm
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Originally posted by Pfunk
Well I can attest to the fact that drivers in Atlanta are insane. Dont even bother getting in the two far left lanes if you dont wanna go over 65mph, 70-90 is a common speed in these lanes if traffic is "light". Traffic in Atlanta has surpased L.A. as the worst in the nation.
I can verify that. Drove thru Atlanta a couple of years ago in one of the worst downpours I've ever been in. I could BARELY see 20 feet in front of me.
I was going 60 (against my better judgement) because I was terrified of getting rear-ended by the morons passing by me a 80-90 mph (no exageration). In a three mile stretch, I saw four different vehicle hydroplane and spin out.
Did anyone slow down? Hell no. It took me two hours to peel my fingers from around the steering wheel. THAT was some white knuckle driving.
There is nothing wrong with going fast. I personally rather enjoy it :D....
If conditions warrant it.
The problem with more power and higher speeds, people want to use it when the road conditions are bad, or in high traffic or while on the friggin cell phone :mad:. Thus resulting in more deaths.
my .02 worth
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The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is an independent agency funded by insurance companies to conduct roadway research and test vehicles for safety.
Naaaa, no bias. :rolleyes:
IIHS has been spewing crap like this for decades. Just more futile bleating from the Naderites who would child-proof our lives in the name of "safety".
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so funked youre saying going fast is just the same saftey as going slow and theres no reason for speed limits ???
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Well some study done recently over here has concluded that only 7% of accidents are due to excessive or inapropriate speed.
Quoted from the BBC 2 TV show "Top Gear", 8pm last Sunday.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Originally posted by vorticon
so funked youre saying going fast is just the same saftey as going slow and theres no reason for speed limits ???
Those idiotic carpool lanes are probably way more dangerous than a higher speed limit. They create a significant speed differential. As a result you have cars moving at 10 mph trying to jump inot a lane where cars are driving 65 mph and vice versa.
They also create incentive to switch lanes. The carpoolers move through all lanes to the left and then do the same to the right to exit.
Speed does not kill, speed diferrential does. It is way safer to have 3 lanes where everybody drives at 90 mph (so no incentive to change lanes), that to have two lanes at 10 mph, one at 65 mph, and constant lane changes left and right.
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Originally posted by Pfunk
Well I can attest to the fact that drivers in Atlanta are insane. Dont even bother getting in the two far left lanes if you dont wanna go over 65mph, 70-90 is a common speed in these lanes if traffic is "light". Traffic in Atlanta has surpased L.A. as the worst in the nation.
As a former veteran of a 285 commute this is absolutely true. 90+ mph in heavy traffic is not uncommon and 70+ is the norm. It is insane.. glad I dont have to go near town these days.
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Lower speed limits = more tickets = higher insurance rates = more profit for insurance companies. The government also profits from increased fine revenue, which is why they usually get on the bandwagon as well. If you believe anything the government or the IIHS says about safety you are a very gullible person.
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DEATH rates go up, but do accident rates?
Its not that there's necessarily more accidents, but those that DO occur are more likely to result in a fatality. Which of course makes plenty of sense.
BB
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What does the Germans have to say about this?
Aoutobahn anyone?
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Its not the speed that kills..It's the lose nut behinde the wheel that does the most damage.:rolleyes:
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Remember cars don't kill people, people kill people. I don't see how higher speed limits result in more deaths. More like powerful cars in the hand of morons result in more deaths. I also can't understand how interstates, freeways or motorways are more dangerous with higher speed limits as these are the only place high speed limits apply. They should in fact be the safest. No oncoming traffic and several lanes to play with. Surely it's a combination of drink driving and speeding in the wrong places like busy towns or twisty country roads?
What drives me nuts are slow drivers holding up everyone else. I came across this recently on a drive back from the west. Some clown in a minivan was driving between 35 and 45mph on a road with a speed limit of 60mph. I was tenth in line and I could see a line of headlights stretching back in the distance behind me. I tried to get ahead by cutting through a bypassed town but was foiled by a jeep and had to watch as no less 57 cars passed in convoy behind the idiot. When I finally got past him 20 miles later he actually flashed his lights at me as if I was doing somethiing wrong. Only my girlfriend stopped me I was ready to stop and punch out his lights. He must have been passed by no less than 20 cars by then. That was more dangerous than speeding because of his ignorance and stupidity dozens of people had to make risky overtaking manoeuvres. How many people get killed overtaking slow drivers every year?
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Originally posted by Pfunk
Well I can attest to the fact that drivers in Atlanta are insane. Dont even bother getting in the two far left lanes if you dont wanna go over 65mph, 70-90 is a common speed in these lanes if traffic is "light". Traffic in Atlanta has surpased L.A. as the worst in the nation.
yep the 285 is BAD but so is the 400...
my father lives in dunwoody and i go visit at least 2 times each year. everywhere we have to go we have to get on either of those 2. he wont even pick me up at the airport anymore, have to ride the marta up towards him lol.
my first trip down there about 8-9 years ago it was already like that. my buddy and i drove in straight through from Milwaukee after working second shift (work 3-11PM then drive and get there about 4:30PM next day... thats a whole other story LOL)
we got about 35 m iles out of Atl. on the 75 comming in... 103_° mid july and traffic was a DEAD stop. we moved 1/4 mile in 45 min. car overheated and had to pull over for an hour. 7PM we finally meet him at his office and get on the 285 to go to his place. my poor little 85 buick skyhawk 4 banger that was overheating couldnt keep up with my dad lol. they were going OVER 80. my needle was pegged and still falling back. that was 8+ years ago.
the next year i went to visit we got in about 2PM on a firday and had no problems... but my dad's poor wife... a 20 mile commute home from work that night took her 4 1/2 hours!!! we were all wondering where she was and she finally got home @ 9:30 PM!!
i think i heard back in 99 or so there was a fatality accident every day on the atlanta freeway system (or averages out to that at least)
the whole reason i believe is there are NO straight through roads ANYWHERE in that God forsakes city. you cant get anywhere without going on the freeway. yeah maybe you can take 1 of the 53 "peachtree" roads or maybe roswell road in the north suburbs... but thats streching it that you can get to them.
that is one fuged up city... but i love it still LMAO.
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That 'study' has caused some interesting reports over here.
Basically what they found was speed limits went up by 20km/h on open roads only (all other speed limits remained the same). Speed limit tolerance dropped significantly (ie tickets are issued down to about 5km/h excess) and thus ticketing increased, which brought more people to travel within the speed limit. However accident rates have risen.
IE, before, the limit was 80km/h, if you got caught doing 100km/h on a quiet road you often got let off with a warning. So people travelled between 80-100km/h. Now the limit is 100km/h, do 105 and you're guaranteed a ticket. Net effect, people travel at 80-100km/h still. YET the death rates have still climbed.
End result is people are saying the police are too focussed on 'revenue' collection rather than accident prevention.
Secondly the definition of 'excessive' speed is painted with a broad brush.
The real reason for the increased deaths is more cars on the road and drivers who don't know how too.
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Well ... I'm safer at 120 mph in dad's Ferrari than at 70mph in my 1973 Pontiac Formula. When I started to drive the formula, more than one time I ended up saying "oh ****" when I had to "stop in an emergency" (orange light, pile up...).
I'm also less incline to have an accident when I'm "pushing it" rather than just following the traffic, day dreaming at my long day of work.
Speed doesn't kill, the driver does. Inexperience and/or stupidity. My 2cts.
Anyone has the stats to compare with Europe highways? even German ones?
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speed doesnt kill...its the decelleration from why you lose control and go off the highway...
if your car can safely go faster then do it...as long as the cops arnt around...and your in a hurry...and you trust the people in the other lanes not to screw around...
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I flow with traffic, but even still I'm checking my rear view mirror. I believe it's safer to travel fast and consistent rather than having people zoom by you at 80+. Cops don't share the same view, though...
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Only 7% of accident fatalities are attributed to excessive speed.
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Just south of Seattle this summer I drove 90+mph in puring rain and morning mist in a long column of cars, could barely see ahead of me but everyone seemed to just as fast. Was very strange no doubt...
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the other 93% of fatalities are due to driving on the left side of the road... damm limeys... :p
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Ha ha ha. :)
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Its not the speed, its all those other morons out there that couldnt drive a donkey wagon. Especially those bastages that are so skilless they have to come to a complete stop to make an illegal u turn through the meridan on the freeway and get catapulted HO into a semi. I dont know how many times Id be driving home from Phoenix and be stuck in Red Rock til 10pm cause some dumbarse got hisself killed.
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For all you studly geniuses that defend high-speed driving...
A car traveling at 60 mph covers 100 yards in three seconds. One moving at 90 mph covers the same distance in about 2 seconds.
How many of you people have pulled onto a highway from a side road after eyeing the oncoming traffic, thinking you were allowing enough space to safely enter said traffic, only to realize that you have seriously misjudged the speed of some moron doing at least 30 mph faster than the posted speed limit? In your case, you are totally at the mercy of the moron's reaction time. You had better hope he's paying attention and sober...otherwise he's going to bunt you into the next county. (Had a friend once who used to brag that he could drive better drunk than when he was sober. I quit riding with him. I didn't want to put my life in the hands of someone who was irretrievably stupid. He made that revelation while driving with the wrist of one hand. It just looked so cool, you know)
Oh, by the way, if it's pouring down rain, double the distance in which he would normally be able to stop.
Sorry you dips...you do NOT have a right to speed and endanger other people's lives.
Shuckins
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Equating drink driving to speeding as equal offences, either morally or legally, is so wrong I'm surprised you'd even mention it.
Even the law recognises the difference and punishes each to different extents accordingly.
In Germany, on the Autobahns you can drive as fast as you like, yet strangely the roads aren't the blood-bath you seem to assume tarmac becomes if the cars travelling it exceed the limit by a few mph. Why is that?
I'm sick of the whinging, tree hugging, bike riding types in this country who want to punish speeders by having more speed cameras. bananas one and all.
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Dowding,
Are you saying Germany doesn't have 75 car pile-ups on foggy mornings?
What would you say is the root-cause of such pile-ups?
By the way...driving while intoxicated and driving at excessive speed are equally stupid. Speeding severely limits the time which the drive has in which to respond to a crisis. At some speeds, having a faster reaction time makes almost no difference in the outcome...the laws of physics take over. In some case, no matter how fast you think your reation time is, you cannot save yourself. In such case, you are only half-fast enough.
Regards, Shuckins
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Well as a limey driver who is living in Germany I think I see my fair share of high speed driving.
The problem is not the speed its the ability and discipline of the drivers. Every shunt I have seen has been caused by someone slow doing something unexpected / stupid - people pulling out of service areas doing 35mph into 70mph traffic, people stoping on 'On Ramps'
In the US you can overtake on either side, sit in which lane you want, the road markings are horrendous and the on / off ramps are nearly suicidal - not a good recipe for high speed driving.
In UK I will cruise on the motorway in good conditions at 85mph happily as long as I can maintain stopping distance and clearances. Discipline is better (but not great), there is little to no overtaking on the inside and the road markings / conditions are generally better - note generally.
Here in Germany Autobahn driving is a totally focused activity (IMHO). On a clear road you can expect the outside lane to have Beemers and Mercs doing 100+ routinely. I have found driving here on the autobahn quite disciplined as far as lane keeping and unexpected manouvres. If you venture out into the outside lanes you had better have your brain in high gear too - and people understand that. You want to do 70 - no problem - stay in the right lane with the trucks. On three lane then I'll be doing 85 - 90 in the centre lane and move out only if I need to pass and up it to 95ish.
I feel happier here on the open A7 at 90 than I ever did on I64 doing 40 round Norfolk VA at Navy yard chuck out time.
My general feeling is driver education is way behind vehicle complexity and capability and there is simply not enough emphasis on handling the vehicle and traffic FLOW in driver teaching.
Sparks
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Shuckins
Glad to see someone pull out the stock arguement about high speed driving. Stopping distances.
This is what people just don't seem to get.
A safe speed is determined by such things as if the road is appropriately built, marked, clear and free of obstructions
If I can see far enough to stop, there are no points from which other vehicles can appear inside that stopping distance unexpectedly and the route to be taken is well marked then what is unsafe about 100mph??
However 40mph down a city street with cars parked, side streets, kids, dogs etc is far far more dangerous and I've seen places where the speed limit is too high but "safe" drivers who "keep to the limits" have been doing just that and its toooo fast.
The pile ups on foggy mornings - yep happen everywhere and its due to driver arrogance and ignorance not speed as a unique feature. The drivers involved were driving outside their own and the vehicles limits. Accidents will always happen when you exceed either your own or the vehicles limits.
And that is the problem with speed limits and laws - it is an arbritrary measure of peoples abilty and judgement - a fixed datum point for a totally fluid situation. Take a piece of straight motorway (say three lane) sign on the side has 65mph on it- calm summer night one or two people on it dry - whats wrong with 80 or 90?? Now same piece of road but January, freezing rain, fog busy 5:30pm - 40 would be dodgy but that sign stays the same.
..only to realize that you have seriously misjudged the speed of some moron doing at least 30 mph faster than the posted speed limit?
Classic - you are handing responsibilty of your judgement to road signs " there's a car and he will be doing the speed limit therefore I can pull out" . Its the same arguement that says "it wasn't my fault I hit that tractor round that blind corner - I was only doing the speed limit"
There are no speed limit signs in the sky but pilots do an ok job of looking after themselves - its called training. Put a monkey in a formula 1 car and I don't reckon he'd live long - but it would be the speed that killed him :rolleyes:
Sparks
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Originally posted by Sparks
The problem is not the speed its the ability and discipline of the drivers. Every shunt I have seen has been caused by someone slow doing something unexpected / stupid - people pulling out of service areas doing 35mph into 70mph traffic, people stoping on 'On Ramps'
In the US you can overtake on either side, sit in which lane you want, the road markings are horrendous and the on / off ramps are nearly suicidal - not a good recipe for high speed driving.
But sadly the profit motive means that the people in charge here will never deal with these problems. Insurance company goons and government drones will continue to emphasize speed because of the revenue stream it brings them.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
How many of you people have pulled onto a highway from a side road after eyeing the oncoming traffic, thinking you were allowing enough space to safely enter said traffic, only to realize that you have seriously misjudged the speed of some moron doing at least 30 mph faster than the posted speed limit? In your case, you are totally at the mercy of the moron's reaction time.
Once, and I pulled over onto the shoulder to let him by.
If you are betting your life on the abilities of other drivers, you're playing russian roullette with 5 of the 6 chambers loaded.
Misjudging closure rates can also place the label of moron on yourself. You messed up, not him.
-SW
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shucking must be easy to shoot down online. :D
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Autobahn in Germany is hard to compare to anything, anywhere else. They are maintained incredibly well. They are built for high speed (curves are gentle with slight bank and you will not hear a seam slapping the tires between segments).
Then, the driver education is very well thought out and takes quite a long time to complete. That is generally true in Europe.
The U.S., in my opinion, has the worst driver education in the world. It's a joke. Yet the insurance companies and various safety agencies will not move to do anything about it. If they were serious about reducing accidents, then that is where they should start.
Speed only kills when someone makes an error in judgment. Whether the speed is 10 or 100, an error will almost always end up an accident.
I have no problem with high speed myself, but I took high speed driving courses, so I am comfortable with high speed. The typical driver in the U.S., in my opinion, should not be allowed to exceed 45MPH given the training they have. (45 is a magic number, as it is about as slow as most cars can go in the U.S. and reach top gear).
For the good our training does for the driver, we should just hand out the driver licenses in boxes of cereal.
Now England is another world unto itself. Sparks,..I agree with some of what you said, but some of the roads in England are called sidewalks here in the U.S. And what the heck is up with those roundabouts? I got stuck on one in London for almost 35 minutes. Thought I was going to pass out from being dizzy. Being a noob in England, even if you are a good driver, is not for the timid or weak of stomach. :D
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I second what Skuzzmeister stated, lack of proper driver education is a huge part of the problem. Poorly designed and maintained roads comes in second.
Atlanta is ridiculous, my wife won't even drive through there after 6am. I have to attend training there on occasion and use the 400 and the 285 bypass to get to class. I turn off the radio and just drive when I'm there. There could be 2 inches of standing water and those people would still try to maintain the posted speed limit! 16 lanes wide on 75/85 near town and it still backs up. :rolleyes:
What will eventually happen is this; people will continue driving fast and killing each other. Relatives of the dead will continue complaints to our representitives and sooner or later the government will get involved. The computer that controls your car will become the computer that watches you 24/7 and tracks your driving habits. The capability is already there. There won't be anymore calls to your attorney to get you off, it will start costing you. The same thing happened with firearms, another right/privledge abused and now unbelieveably regulated.
It's coming....
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Originally posted by Pfunk
Well I can attest to the fact that drivers in Atlanta are insane. Dont even bother getting in the two far left lanes if you dont wanna go over 65mph, 70-90 is a common speed in these lanes if traffic is "light". Traffic in Atlanta has surpased L.A. as the worst in the nation.
Haven't been there in two-three years .. but sounds about right ....
That city is hell on wheels
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What will eventually happen is this; people will continue driving fast and killing each other. Relatives of the dead will continue complaints to our representitives and sooner or later the government will get involved. The computer that controls your car will become the computer that watches you 24/7 and tracks your driving habits. The capability is already there.
In Europe its already on the way. In UK our 'caring' government is talking about a speed enforcement system where every car has a GPS tracker installed and when speeds in execess of the speed limit are averaged over a piece of road - automatic penalty. Big brother will be watching you sooner than you think.
Sparks