Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: OIO on November 24, 2003, 11:52:04 AM
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How about just make the killshooter not cause damage to the plane, but instead cause the pilot to pass out twice?
That way, a griefer can shoot his heart out at a green plane and of course, not damage the other guy, but he will be penalized by a wobbling screen that turns to black twice (literally, taking him 'out' of the game for like.. 10 seconds?).... and accidental killshooter caused by an idjit green con suddenly crossing your bullet streams wont instanty kill you. You still get some sort of penalty...but its not terminal.
thoughts?
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I don't think it would be adequate to stop shoulder shooters and the feel of combat would devolve more towards the arcade as all five morons behind you all merrily blazed away trying to get you.
It is a much better idea than the common "just have the bullets do no damage to friendlies" idiocy that we see periodically presented as a fresh new solution.
Take your idea, but make the penalty much harsher. Say, frozen controls (like when moving the stick too rapidly) for 30 seconds and blacked completely out for 35 seconds. That way you lose the ability to kind of follw the target and you lose the ability to track what is going on around you.
Even then it doesn't really meet one of the big requirements which killshooter does. That is to say that if you are fighting a two on one and the other guys have a friendly fire incident you should now be fighting a one on one, but under your idea and my modification of it you are still fighting a two on one with one of the aircraft suffering momentary difficulties. In reality a two on one in which a friendly fire incident occurs becomes a one on one.
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Bring PNG to AH!!!
ack-ack
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"I don't think it would be adequate to stop shoulder shooters and the feel of combat would devolve more towards the arcade as all five morons behind you all merrily blazed away trying to get you."
Well, right now the killshooter makes those 5 guys shoot themselves down. But what if you were plane #5 on the back and had 4 planes suddenly fly in front of you as you were shooting at your con (which you had been dogfighting for a while)?.
I say make killshooter just make you pass out. The duration or 'rounds' of passing out are up to HTC to decide.. imo 10 seconds or 2 'pass out rounds' is waaay more than enough... for those 4 planes behind you shooting at YOUR con in arcadish abandon wont be able to know where to shoot since theyll be too busy passing out... and if those 4 planes fly in front of you, you will be passing out, taking you out of that fight, but not outright killing you.
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I'd be happy if the damage was just applied where you hit the friendly, instead of all to your tail. 2x mg151 hits will down you with KS, while they'd be hard pressed to do the same to a con.
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My solution for KillShooter.
1. Shooter - guns jam for 30 seconds - starting after the 5th hit, loss of 25% of speed and turn rate 30 seconds.
2. Friendly - takes normal damage, loss of 25% speed and turn rate for 30 seconds and guns jam for 30 seconds. - starting after the 5th hit.
If the shooter manages to kill 3 friendlies with in a 24 hr period, he get's no ammo or bombs for 1 day, and for 2 days he can only fly early war planes, with performance reduced by 25% speed and turn rate, no perk points and perk planes are disabled.
Switching sides does nothing.
If during the 2 day probation period shooter kills another friendly, his picture and phone number are sent to Richard Simmons for a 3 day weekend date and avacado scrub applied by Richard personally.
Vee haz vayz uhf dealing wid killshooters.
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OK was re-reading this post and had a thought.
How about applying 50% damage to friendly aircraft (where it wuz shot) while simultaneously inflicting 50% damage on same part of the shooting aircraft. If death is a result the shooter also gets a special landing type worth -50 perks of that vehicle type. If death is a result for the friendly a special landing type is recorded. If 3 landings of this type (friendly death/shooter death) are recorded within a 1hr period a 48hr ban is imposed.
The damage to yourself plus the perk penalty means that you will be respectful of your shots. The damage to the friendly means that people will respect your combat space (the space between your nose and the enemies tail). No more cherry picking, no more LA7s getting in front of you and spoiling your shot, no more insane high speed dives cutting in front of you.:confused:
Added bonus any enemy cons in the area are suddenly facing 2 disabled aircraft at worst. At best it has been cleared by the friendly fire incident. Say good by to the days of having 6 enemy cons all firing madly in a cone of death behind you.:aok
The 3 friendly fire incidents ban covers cases where a certain player gets it into his head to be a complete jerk. Even the most evil minded dweeb will consider losing 150 perk points. Plus the 48 hr ban insures that the subject of his attention has a chance to forget that it ever happened. If someone is such a dweeb as to manage to fly into another aircrafts guns repeatedly he to is also taught the error of his ways.:mad: :mad:
The ban should have a counter on it for newbies. You can't get yourself banned or lose perks for 4 hrs of play.
Everybody wins!
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My biggest quarrel concerning the killshooter is derived from situations where friendly fire is unintentional.
Here is a familiar scenerio: You're chasing an enemy, landing a ping here and there, getting closer both in proximity and to the killer angle you're looking for. Finally, the enemy lets off a little on his elevators, allowing you to unleash the killer burst that will surely obliterate the con. Sadly, after after only a couple well-placed pings, some guy with just a bit more speed cuts in front of you, absorbing a good 50% of your fire and thus dooming you to a very unfair de-tailment.
We're all lived through that and there's just nothig you can do short of ripping the guy a new one on country channel--which is pointless anyway. Here's a solution, albeit one that may be complicated to implement:
If the system senses that you've landed pings on an enemy within 1-3 seconds of getting killshot(more than one ping but less than say 5-7), then the killshooter is disabled for the next 3-5 seconds(ostensibly until that stage of the engagement is over or the friendly leaves your line of fire). Bullets striking friendly aircraft during this brief period either don't register at all or register on the friendly(because what was he doing cutting into your hot line of fire anyway?). Keeping these time spans very short will ensure that the rule changes occur only during legitimate engaments, rather than whenever somebody wants to pop a friendly for fun. Otherwise, keep the killshooter as is.
As I said, it may be complicated to implement, but I think in practice it would be a pretty slick approach to the problem. Instead of imposing bans or perk-point fines, the outcome will simply be effected fairly.
Thoughts?
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I have been killshooter'ed once.
1 time.
ONCE.
How is this really a problem for some of you? Here's my theory: You have poor SA once the enemy is in your sights. Just because the bad guy is in front of you doesn't mean the entire war stops. If someone is about to really dive in front of you, you should either be able to STOP SHOOTING IN TIME or HEAR THEM COMING.
ONE TIME.
That is all.
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Here is an idea how about instead of damage you lose a perk point. :D
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No, if they implement that, then all the people with Irritable Trigger Syndrome that complain about killshooter will complain about unjustly losing perks.
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Originally posted by Chairboy
I have been killshooter'ed once.
1 time.
ONCE.
How is this really a problem for some of you? Here's my theory: You have poor SA once the enemy is in your sights. Just because the bad guy is in front of you doesn't mean the entire war stops. If someone is about to really dive in front of you, you should either be able to STOP SHOOTING IN TIME or HEAR THEM COMING.
ONE TIME.
That is all.
If you've been killshot just once, then there's no reason not to add an element of realism to the whole thing, while at the same time retaining enough of it to prevent people from goofing off and shooting friendlies. As rare as the situation may be, the guy flying into the line of fire still has the better opportunity to avoid said line of fire, and should thus be made to pay the price for getting into it. Just an opinion.
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Pork,
Your idea doesn't cover the fact that an Enemy Plane should have life much easier after a friendly fire incident. My idea covers all major points.
1) Shooter needs to maintain SA when he is firing.
2) Friendlies need to respect Shooter's fight.
3) Enemy has things much easier after a friendly fire incident.
4) Ticked off dweebs harm themselves as much as anyone else.
5) The unrealistic 6 Friendlies firing in cone of death at single Con stops or they risk fratriciding themselves.
6) Continued dweebism is punished.
7) Players on same country who have gripe with each other MUST take it to the DA or risk a 48hr grounding.
8) Accidental firing on friendly isn't catastrophic. The friendlies can absorb a couple of small caliber rounds. Obviously if this occurs while your flying the YAK-9T bad things will happen quickly.
In addition to covering the major points my idea is also fairly easy to implement. There is already code covering Landing Types (Capture, Success, Ditch). Only 2 more types need to be created. Tweaking the damage system so that it doles out 50% damage in Friendly vs Friendly situations is also trivial. Tweaking it so that the damage is done to same location on Shooting aircraft instead of tail is also fairly simple.
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The only problem I can see with killshooter is the way the damage is applied. (All at once to the tail, the weakest point, of your aircraft) The damage should be mapped to a corresponding location on your own aircraft. Your aicraft should take the damage you would have inflicted, not be knocked out of the air.
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Innominate. Thats the one change we made to KS in AH2.
HiTech
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Hitech,
Care to comment on my idea? Seems to cover all possible angles. Your thoughts sir?
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Still think it should just be turned off a couple times a week, unannounced.
Although it is rare, it happened again last night to me in MA.
twice.
Both times I was within 300yds of my intended victim only to have someone fly through my steam of bb's.
Poor SA? you bet it is, but not on my part. Both times I knew where the friendlies were, and both times I was unable to react. It happens that fast.
This means at least three possible reasons.
1. Poor SA on the part of the guy flying through the stream
2. Kill stealing ( intentionally killshooting you in order to take the kill you set up and worked for)
3. Having no clue there is such a thing as killshooter.
So, how often does Killshooter really affect each of us?
Has happened to me 3 times in the last 2 weeks, and prior to that....? (can't remember, it is pretty rare).
Now, it is entirely possible that the perceived increase in killshooter incidents are related to a fairly large influx of new people to the arena, and will settle down in short order.
But....given the fact that it is a rare event, why have it?
Turn it off...at least a couple of times a week (although I would really like to see it disappear).
RTR
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I agree there needs to be something done to penalize not only the shooter but the guy that zooms in at warp factor 9 and cuts right infront of the line of fire. If actual damage is appied to the plane that cuts off another plane while firing, that person would be more leary of and more Situationly aware of those type of tactics that will increase his probability of sustaining friendly fire damage. Also there needs to be more of something that lacking in this game "communication". If you see an enemy plane extending with frienly planes in trail firing, hoping to get a long range kill shot, it maybe more advantageous to all parties concerned if you announce your intentions of zooming infront of everyones line of fire because you have a higher probabilty of getting a gun solution based on your higher energy status. Or better yet communicate and coordinate with those players to formulate a gun solution. That way there are no surprises and none gets KS damage.
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Originally posted by hitech
Innominate. Thats the one change we made to KS in AH2.
HiTech
YAY!
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Since Beta I have had no more than a handful of KS incidents,
three of which occurred during a squad night when we were
trying to steal each others kills.
Just don't see this as a big problem. Of course I try not to
get in the big kongo lines chasing a single baddie...