Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funkedup on December 05, 2001, 02:44:00 PM
-
In WWII there are countless stories of pilots seeing specks off in the distance, and being unsure over whether they were friendly or enemy aircraft. They had to get close enough to visually ID the enemy to know for sure.
But in AH, if you see a speck on the horizon, you can hit Esc and know within 5 seconds whether it is friendly or enemy. If there is a green dot on radar, it is friendly. If there is a red dot or no dot it is enemy. No visual ID needed.
Just another example of how AWACS makes AH more like modern day air combat than WWII air combat.
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
NO YOU DIDN'T !!
:eek:
-
"ou can hit Esc and know within 5 seconds"
You're lying!!!!!
It takes less than 5 seconds.
Westy
-
Chasing friendly dots all over the map to ID them is....a GOOD thing?
:)
-
Sorry Westy, you're right. It was a conservative estimate.
And I do realize that some night fighters in WWII had IFF capability. But there are no night fighters in AH. So this is a moot point.
And I realize that IFF transponders were used with ground radar as early as 1940. However:
- IFF wasn't used everywhere at all times.
- It wasn't always available to both sides in a fight.
- The person who could tell friend from foe was looking at a radar screen far away. And it wasn't usually the radar operator talking to the pilot. The information was relayed to the pilot. And not to every pilot, generally just leaders of formations. So the information was not available to every pilot within a few seconds.
- The information was not available on a high resolution graphic display with every aircraft shown, updating almost instantly. It was verbal communication. A picture is worth a thousand words.
- In order to give range and bearing to a pilot, the controller had to know exactly which blip was the pilot. It was not a trivial problem to tell an individual pilot whether the speck 5 miles north of him was a bandit or not.
- The information in WWII included altitude usually.
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
Ohh no! that might force us to c-c-c-communicate?!?
what are you trying to do here funked?!?
--
Seriously though, im all for no dot dar, hell if i got this nice radar i want some locking missles as well.
-
Chasing friendly dots all over the map to ID them is....a GOOD thing?
Popeye, if you want to simulate WWII air combat it is. :)
There is a reason they flew in formations and planned their flights and stayed in contact on the radio. To reduce this kind of chasing.
-
gee.. WE KNOW IT ALREADY FUNKED !!!
allright you don't like Dar... next.
-
Hehe Popye.
And you are proposing we remove it all and ignore the reality of air combat command and control in WW2 Funked?
OK, somewhat of a pointed, rhetorical question. You and I have gone 'round & 'round on this a couple times before so I'm just jerking your chain for fun funked :).
I still love a quote from the past from you...something like "if historians can't agree on history, it's no wonder that 'simmers' can't agree on 'realism'."
Tango, 1st Lt.
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
-
Tango, read my posts. I'm just discussing historical IFF and radar vs. the implementation in this game. There seems to be some confusion among the community about what kind of capabilities were available in WWII, and what kind of capabilities were available in AH.
I'm not proposing anything in this thread.
I proposed some changes in my first AWACS thread and if you read my posts there I made it pretty clear. It just seems a lot of people don't read too well or something.
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
Hey. Believe me I'm a member of the choire Funkedup :)
My problem is I've been singing the same song so much these past few days that I'm getting a case of laringUBBitis. I think I'll just watch this encoure versus belting out the same old notes which most of the audience will deliberately misinterpret and thereafter will commence tossing tomatoes. ;)
Westy
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
-
Funked- Yes yes, I know :). Just threw in a jab at the sure to be coming "remove the dar because it's UNREALISTIC" posts that will come soon.
Tango, 1st Lt.
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
-
Very well. :)
-
Gotta say I'm part of that choir as well and thought I'd just like to hear myself sing a note or two before running away from the afore mentioned tomatoes :D
-
LOL SWulfe! Hey don't forget that your choir is armed with it's own share of stockpiled rotten tomatoes too intended for the 'other' choir!
Tango, 1st Lt.
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
-
Please, give it a rest. HTC KNOWS how you fell about the way they do radar...we all do (boy do we)
-
Ammo I'm pretty sure HTC know the differences between their system and WWII systems, and they know it a lot better than I do. The message is not intended for them. It's intended to enlighten players, who have shown lack of knowledge of how the game works vs how things worked in WWII. If you already understand and don't want to hear about it, don't reply, and the thread will quickly drop off the front page.
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
Bud, its my UBB to enjoy too, and I read it as you do, and reply as you do. Press on with your "enlightenment" for others, we *all* certainly appreciate it. But certainly know if you continue with your radar agenda (personally I think its worth a try, I new nothing else till I came here from WB's in '99) you will see posts like mine.
-
Sure, no problem, I understand all that.
Actually my "agenda" (three posts in a week) is about out of ammo anyways. I had three points to make:
1. The MA is quite crowded, so the "finding the fight" argument for AWACS is dead.
2. AWACS gives us capabilities to use day fighters to make blind intercepts of maneuvering targets, well enough to get within guns range, something that could not be done so easily in WWII.
3. AWACS gives us instant IFF capability of distant bandits that was not equalled by WWII day fighters.
That's the extent of my agenda. I don't have any more points to make. But they were distinct points, and needed to be made seperately. The longer a thread goes, the less communication occurs, due to hijacking and short attention spans, so I used three seperate threads to do this.
And in the course of all this I found some answers that I am pleased with. There are some new radar settings (to be first used in Big Week) that will enable in-flight and tower radar modes to be set up differently from each other. And HTC have increased their effort in developing the Combat Theater into a viable 24/7 arena. Put those two together and I am a happy camper.
[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
-
Interesting post funked. Thanks.
-
'There is a reason they flew in formations and planned their flights and stayed in contact on the radio. To reduce this kind of chasing."
guess what? that ain't gonna happen. The Ah world is nothing like WWII was. Lone wolf fighters were not lurking at alt to take out fighters taking off or landing or nursing shot up planes a few miles from their base. The clipboard is a gamey cheezy substitute for the organization, dedication and equipment that was radar. course it's no cheezier than a monitor substituting for a real world.
You think removing dot dar will make people sit in the tower "communicating" or fly finger fours or missions? LOL! At best it will allow a little more of the gamey lone wolf "sneak up and run away" style and at worst it will make for more gangbangs and chase the dot idiocy while simple decreasing the "kills per time" stat.
Like pop said... "this is a GOOD thing?"
lazs
"
-
What happened to the trolling lazs? Your all serious now. Getting concerned? Go take a geritol, it might calm you down.
-
I thought you were talking about the MA.
Can't see no reason why not to make The Combat Theater into a viable 24/7 arena if it's this realism that would fill it up.
I thought that's the way it was already, but never go there because it's empty.
-
Oh I thought funked meant the MA too. It would definately be a good idea in the CT to lose the dot dar in flight for both sides.
-
You aren't sneaking that 'No agenda' stuff by me Funked. I recognize a 'passive' attempt to get the P-61 into AH.
So the real question is, when are we getting the P-61 and He-219 in AH? :D
-
Actually I'm trying for a Mosquito night fighter with two-stage Merlins. :)
-
"Actually I'm trying for a Mosquito night fighter with two-stage Merlins. "
Shouldn't that have two clipboards as well, one for the radio operator?